Season 4, Ep 16
Added 2022-06-29 15:53:50 +0000 UTCdespite the freaky fridayness of it all its actually just tuesday again! ๐
Comments
I'm pretty sure Buffy was the first network show to ever have a lesbian relationship depicted on American television. For the faith riley scene. Riley loves buffy. when he has sex with her its because he wants to be with buffy. i always saw it as faith has never had sex for love. its always been meaningless so when confronted by love, Faith panics and doesnt understand. There is a lot of evidence that faith has never experienced love, she mentions her mom used to hit her back in s3. She mentions all the guys she sleeps with in s3 but she is younger than buffy. (she turned 18 during her coma). She read as a very obvious a victim of abuse. And the closest she got to a loving relationship, is the semi Father/Daughter relationship she has with the Mayor, a soulless wanna-be demon. Faith experiencing Buffy's life, which has love from her mom, her friends and Riley, gratitude from the people she saves, Faith is experiencing for the first time. The scene in the church shows Faith is not merely using Buffy as a disguise to escape but rather she "is" Buffy so she has to do the right thing. Faith wants to be Buffy, shes always been jealous, but in experiencing her life, not just what and who Buffy has, but who she is, shakes Faith. She cant pretend to like her life anymore. She hates her life and she hates herself.
Cait
2023-10-05 20:56:31 +0000 UTCWHEN I TELL YOU MY HEART FLUTTERED! i am trying to hard to think of the first time i saw a same sex relationship on tv and all i can think of is like will and grace maybe? i dont remember what year that came out in either but i remember it kinda being a big deal. however i dont remember the first time i saw wlw - i could have used this show in my childhood! LOL agree about the performances - there was one scene where i was like oh wow they're even mimicking the tone of each others voices. i know i could rewatch this 1000 times and pick up on new stuff every time! thank you can't wait i feel like the end portion of the seasons are always so wild so im like buckled up ready to go! thanks as always for being here and having fun with me!
darciesnothere
2022-07-01 16:22:51 +0000 UTCLOL i love when people warn me of long posts - i LOVE them! no worries :D even if the body switching trope is overdone, every has their own like cheesy overdone trope they love and THIS is mine!! I was so excited to see the BTVS take on it and it did not disappoint. I will always love these kinds of episodes even if people think they're overdone! I AGREE about the willow stuff omg so yes ahh! definitely thinking of the time it was, and sadly not too much has changed now. while i will say there is much more acceptance societally etc - many people who come out still dont have support and lose people. that's why a couple eps ago when i was like "does willow maybe have a crush.. .cause that would make sense why she would lie about a new friend!" it ALL clicked. LOL cause like yeah, been there exactly! i can't even imagine how hard it was for YALL to keep it in as im just like running my brain over whats going on then it finally clicking lol. im very excited for this to see us dive into how we got here, and the journey. LOVE this explanation for the buffy/faith stuff thank you so much <3 Also did not know Single white female was a movie!! makes that line make much more sense hahaha! AND THANK YOU again for the long comment !! im glad you're enjoying the show with me :D :D
darciesnothere
2022-07-01 16:20:03 +0000 UTCvery cool!!!
darciesnothere
2022-07-01 16:13:47 +0000 UTCAGREE lolol
darciesnothere
2022-07-01 16:13:35 +0000 UTCperfect, tragic episode. honestly exactly that i agree !
darciesnothere
2022-07-01 16:13:20 +0000 UTCLOLOLOL worst time to take a sip of coffee ever!
darciesnothere
2022-07-01 16:12:56 +0000 UTCI love all the interpretations and conversations behind had around this episode - even years later!! this community is so cool. Also i agree - the theme is always usually relevant but i find the most fun watching the actors portray each other - they did SOOOO good here!
darciesnothere
2022-07-01 16:12:42 +0000 UTCmy first thought was also that it was riley that was r*ped, he didnt consent to sleeping with faith - but i hadn't thought about the buffy side as well. i think im with ritchie in that you're both correct - unfortunately both were. :(
darciesnothere
2022-07-01 16:10:55 +0000 UTCAMAZING thank you so much! it did kick back in it was faith when she was in the hallway there - i got most confused when she was like "who are you what do you want from her" and i was like oh oops what is happening! this helps it all click! but you're right its ..... honestly so tragic thats the perfect way to put it. AHHHH i feel like shes gone to the mountains to raise sheep and we will see her like next season or next season or the next LOL
darciesnothere
2022-07-01 16:09:57 +0000 UTCi just KNOW every time i rewatch this i will pick up new mannerisms or something they do as each other - its just so so good!
darciesnothere
2022-07-01 16:08:21 +0000 UTCeeek thanks claire!!
darciesnothere
2022-07-01 16:07:55 +0000 UTCLOL its so trippy to look at i kinda wanna leave it for the rest of the season :P
darciesnothere
2022-07-01 16:07:47 +0000 UTCNo, I'm not implying it's new. I just don't think it was as common as it is now. There was a point in time where, after Xena and this show did it, everyone jumped on the bandwagon.
Raven Dark
2022-06-30 14:09:37 +0000 UTCGood stuff here about what Faith's going through! But, I don't think I can agree with the supposition that body swapping was new in any shape or form in the year 2000 when this episode aired. The first Freaky Friday movie came out in 1976, and shows ranging from The Outer Limits, The X-Files, Gilligan's Island and Star Trek had done body swap episodes in the decades leading up to this - to name only a few. This doesn't even mention Quantum Leap, which is really just a show all about that one concept. I'd also disagree that it's overdone, because nothing's overdone if it's done well. That's just my opinion though.
Thomas Hansen
2022-06-30 11:23:04 +0000 UTC"I am, you know." "What?" "Yours." God, that gets me every damn time! Willow and Tara's connection was the first piece of media I ever watched that had a same-gender relationship like this. It was one of the helping factors to me realizing that I'm gay myself, having mostly been confused for a good portion of my life before having more of a realization as I grew older. Willow/Tara was definitely a milestone in that timeline. It was the first time in media I've watched that a connection with a main character and somebody of the same gender wasn't strictly platonic. That being said. this episode has plenty of awesome and fun things to it, if not also some more disturbing notes. SMG and Eliza do fantastic jobs at mimicking each other's performances. Over the years, I've grown to notice the inflections in Eliza's voice more and more. She really captures Buffy's vocal pacing and verbal emphasis. I'm also a strong believer that Faith, unfortunately, r*ped both Buffy and Riley that night by having sex with Riley in Buffy's body. The show never calls it what it is but it's really difficult for me to see it any other way. Although, you were confused about Faith's reaction to Riley saying "I love you" and I *think* that might have triggered some kind of abuse of her past. I could totally be wrong, and I very much want to be, but she almost has a mental breakdown at being told that. Whether it's sexual abuse or otherwise, I don't know. But it clearly did something to her. Either way though, dude--loved your reaction, as always! You're always so entertaining to watch and I always look forward to these. Looking forward to next month!
Ritchie
2022-06-29 22:25:10 +0000 UTCHonestly I think you're both correct. Faith used Buffy's body to have sex but Riley solely consented to having sex with Buffy, not Faith. Therefore, they were both sexually violated by Faith's actions.
Ritchie
2022-06-29 22:12:09 +0000 UTCWow, there's a lot to unpack with this episode. I wanted to try and clear up some of the confusion you had at certain points. Some commenters have already mentioned a few things, but I wanted to offer my own thoughts/interpretations on them. Be warned, long comment incoming. So, first, about the whole body switching trope. That concept is overdone now, yes, but at the time this episode came out, it wasn't. At that time, the concept was a new thing that everyone started doing, in part because of this episode of Buffy. There was also another show, that did it really well--Xena Warrior Princess. The body switching episode of Xena was also beautifully done. I think that episode of Xena and this episode of Buffy are what started the trend, and they are the reason the concept is now overused. It had been done before, but not to the extent it is now. The second thing I wanted to address is Tara and Willow's relationship. There's something I've been wanting to tell you so bad, since the episode where Willow lied to Buffy about being with Tara during the episode A New Man, where Giles turned into a demon. I've been wanting to explain why she lied, and I feel like i can finally tell you. Now that Faith-In-Buffy confirmed that Willow is into Tara, and you talked about the show exploring a gay relationship, I feel like you know enough that I can explain this. I've been so excited to finally get this out. LOL All of the episodes when Willow hid that she was with Tara come down to the same thing. The key to understanding those reactions is understanding the time in which this part of the show came out. Wilow's reactions are based on the fear people had of coming out. At this time, people in the LGBTQ (did I get that right?) were still afraid that if anyone found out they would be shunned or hurt or lose the respect of those they love. Even while among friends and people they trusted, they still had to be afraid of coming out, because it was (and sometimes still is) common even for people who think of themselves as accepting and non-judgemental to freak out and push those who come out away once they discover the person is not what they thought they were. Willow is hiding her relationship with Tara for fear of being exposed as gay. That somehow her friends will find out she's into Tara and she will lose them or that it will change the way they feel about her. That's the real reason she didn't want them to meet her. How ironic and sad that the day she finally decides to take the chance and introduce Tara to Buffy that it isn't Buffy that meets her, but someone who turns it into something to be mocked. About the scene with Riley. Like others above said, it was always Faith-In-Buffy. My interpretation of Faith's reaction when Riley said I love you is just this. Faith reacted exactly like an assault victim, specifically as one who has only heard endearments or romantic sentiments from abusers, or people who use it as a manipulation tactic, because they want something from her. Riley's words freaked her out because she associated them with an abuser who turns on the charm during the part of the cycle of abuse where they are being "nice." Then, as a woman who has been a victim, she felt an unexpected surge of aolidarity-driven protectieness toward Buffy, which is why she asked him, "Whar do you want from her." She thought he must have expected something of Buffy because he said it. The sort of thing abusers expect, such as devotion or loyalty, or a promise not to leave him, which would solidify his control over her. Thinking he was manipulating her scared her. Lastly, Faith-In Buffy's reaction during the scene with Forrest, then when why she went to the church to help, then her reaction at the church, and finally her reaction when she was being her real body up. These are all meant to show the same thing. Faith has wanted Buffy's life from day one. This is why she went to see her friends, why she interacted with Joyce the way she did, and why she "took" and slept with Riley. She wanted them as hers. She wants the friendships, the loving mother, the mentor in Giles and the loving boyfriend that Bufffy has in her life, all things Faith has never had. Understanding that helps to put her reactions in those later scenes into perspective. When she saved that girl at the Bronze, she saw what it feels like to be the "Good slayer." She saw the gratitude she thinks she should be getting from others for being the hero. She saw it, and although it made her uncomfortable at first, she also wanted it. Part of her does have an instinct to be the slayer and help others, which is why she went to help at the church. But she also saw that that's what Buffy would do, so it was another chance to be Buffy and therefore get the approval and gratitude she craves. Here, I want to point out something that you may not have picked up on yet. We first saw a hint that Faith wants Buffy's life for herself in the very first episode where Faith was introduced, Faith, Hope, and Trick. She honed in on her friendships, on her budding relationship with Scott Hope, and on her relationship with Giles and Buffy's mother, saying all the right things and making them impressed with her. She interrupted Buffy when she was telling her stories about slaying, and made herself sound like the perfect slayer to her mother. She made Giles feel good about himself buy telling him he was young and cute. She asked Buffy if Scott was seeing anyone when she knew Buffy liked him. When we see that episode at the time, Faith just seems like a very open, free spirited, confident girl who people like and gravitate towards, and they happen to be attracted to her personality because she's new and interesting and different. Buffy's then covetous reaction ("I'm the one being single-white female. here" and, "Look, now she's getting along with my fries.") seems selfish, and as if she just doesn't like sharing. But once we see her literally taking over Buffy's life and literally, "Single Wihte Femaling" her, Buffy's reaction doesn't seem to out of line, does it? :D Now, Faith's actions in that episode are put in a whole new light, one in which we see that Faith was already subtly trying to insert herself into her life. Oh, another thing, just in case you aren't familiar with the reference, Single While Female is a movie in which a woman befriends and becomes roommates with another woman in order to steal her life. In the movie, she slowly starts making herself over to look like her, and sleeps with her boyfriend, making him think she's his girlfriend in order to take him for herself and then make him leave so that she has the woman all to herself. It has both an original film, and a remake. With Forrest, when he said she was a killer, she got very defensive and said, "I am not a killer." I think she did this for two reasons. One, she still feels guilty for killing the Mayor's assistant, an action that makes her feel like she's just a killer. Two, she was also defensive of Buffy and hated that Forrest sees Buffy, or perhaps slayers in general) as killers. She may have also been being protective of the slayer line in a broader sense, because she is one. It's the club of which she is a member and thinks it deserves respect. So, finally, the church. When she walked in and the demon said "Slayer" she said "The one and only. I think this had layers to it. First, she was, as another commentor said, responding as if she was Buffy, and that Faith, her as a person, did not exist. She wants to wipe herself out and for there only to be Buffy. Second, I think she was also suggesting there should only be one slayer and that Buffy isn't the real slayer anymore. Techincally that's correct, because when Buffy died, she was no longer the "active slayer, and when Kendra died, Faith became the active one. Techically speaking, the title of slayer, officially beongs to Faith. She's using that technicality to justify taking over Buffy's role and helping at the church when Buffy should be doing that. It suggests that she thinks that by being the slayer, Buffy is taking something that is rightfully hers. In that last scene in the church when she beats up her own face and is insulting herself, ("Worthless bitch," and "You're nothing, you're disgusting,") she was venting her hatred for herself. Faith hates herself, seeing herself as a killer, and someone with no worth, someone who is disgusting. She saw her own face, and she felt the self hatred she has been holding onto for so long. This is the reason she wants Buffy's life. She wishes she was her and that Faith, the real Faith, didn't exist. I love this two-parter, and this reaction was wonderful. As they always are.
Raven Dark
2022-06-29 21:29:32 +0000 UTCFantastic episode, one of the highlights of the season for me. Song trivia: when we first cut to Faith-as-Buffy in the Bronze, the song that's playing is "Vivian" by Nerf Herder. You may be familiar with them from one of their other pieces, the "Buffy the Vampire Slayer Theme".
ghostofdurruti
2022-06-29 19:05:22 +0000 UTCTrue but it's even more than that. It's a matter of one being valued and the other literally spat upon. Buffy learned how it felt to be thought of as garbage. Faith learned what it was like to be valued by a Mom, friends, vamp victims and a guy. That lead her to the church at the end instead of skipping town.
Chas Summers
2022-06-29 19:00:34 +0000 UTCIf the Buffyverse had been furthered beyond BtVS and Angel, this would have been a good jumping off point for a spinoff. Faith in Alabama, Smallville meets Slayer.
Tim Pierce
2022-06-29 18:57:48 +0000 UTCFaith-in-Buffy says she's the one and only slayer (talking about Buffy ofc) cuz Faith doesn't see herself as having any kind of worth, it's like she hates herself so much that she wants to pretend she doesn't even exist. It's made more explicit later on when Buffy-in-Faith appears and she starts beating and insulting herself "you're nothing, you disgusting murderous bitch". What a perfect tragic episode.
angelcakes
2022-06-29 18:57:08 +0000 UTCI think it's much more Buffy who's raped rather than Riley. While he wasn't aware that someone else was in that head of hers, _he_ clearly thought he slept with Buffy at the time. Whereas Buffy finding out it happened without her being conscious in her body...
Patrick Armbruster
2022-06-29 18:56:23 +0000 UTCWas just waiting for your face when Willow mentioned hyena possession. Did not disappoint!
shellibelle77
2022-06-29 17:59:46 +0000 UTCLOL the thumbnail ๐. Yes up to interpretation, but I think the turning point is Riley treating her gently and the I love you scene. I think sheโs never had a healthy relationship with sex and being treated that way she didnโt know how to handle it. When she sees him again she even says โI canโt use youโ-the guilt is too much. And seeing those people in danger in the church, knowing Buffy would save them calls her to do so as well-calling herself the one and only slayer is a rather tragic line imo-as Buffy she declares herself not a killer, but the slayer. She sees Buffy as the true slayer, the one and only, the hero, and being confronted with her own self she calls herself disgusting. Anyway, glad you liked the episode-imo body switching type episodes get too much hate, I agree the big fun is seeing actors having fun with role and trying to imitate the other character!
707
2022-06-29 17:59:10 +0000 UTCAnd yeah, Faith in Buffy's body with Riley - technically a minor little something called rape. I know it was the 90s and the whole 'men can be sexually assaulted' too thing wasn't a major topic of conversation in the wider scheme of things, but it still icks me out. I also feel like in this day and age a movie like WW1984 should definitely have known better going with the same trope for 'ze romance' (rolls eyes so hard they pop out of their sockets and bounce around the room).
Claire Eyles
2022-06-29 17:01:53 +0000 UTCOhhhhh how I love this two-parter! Great reaction Darcie, as always <3 So, you got a lil confused with the Faith/Riley scene and that's totally understandable. But it was always Faith-in-Buffy. It's up for interpretation, but I think Faith had a full-on panic attack meltdown because a sexual partner said "I love you" during an intimate moment. I think she's pretty much only experienced toxic love and she completely can't handle genuine kindness. Buffy gets to experience what it's like being the "bad Slayer," all the abuse Faith experiences and how hard it is to not live down to people's poor expectations of you. And Faith gets see how people treat you when you're the good hero. By the end, Faith is living up to the good expectations that people have of Buffy.... and then she's confronted with her own body and we see what she really thinks of herself, that she's a worthless murderer. It's tragic. It's so well done. I love it. Gosh I wonder when we'll see Faith again...... ๐คทโโ๏ธ
FandomReferenceHere
2022-06-29 17:00:16 +0000 UTCSMG and Eliza Dushku's acting in this like next level. SMG even has Eliza's Boston accent down, and all the mannerisms they both do, it's just such a delight to watch. :)
Claire Eyles
2022-06-29 16:36:19 +0000 UTCLove these episodes, and your reactions are awesome as always. <3
Claire Eyles
2022-06-29 16:15:57 +0000 UTCThe blur faces ๐คฃ๐คฃ damn i love this crazy ride we on
The Oracle Witch
2022-06-29 16:03:44 +0000 UTC
