Vinland Saga S2 Ep 18
Added 2023-05-10 02:56:01 +0000 UTCDUDE THIS SHOW IS SO DEPRESSING WTF
Comments
Bruhh I’m so tired of the “I hate this character” or “he’s a good guy/bad guy” so is every other character that we’ve grown to love, such as Thorfinn, Askeladd, Bjorn, and Thorkell. Even Thors has killed innocent people, yet he gets no hate for it. Ketil sucked for what he did to Arnheid, but that doesn’t make him a bad character, he did nothing wrong up until that moment. It’s always Michelle saying how much she doesn’t like someone or calling someone “good or bad” lol.
Draken of Toman
2024-06-13 20:52:37 +0000 UTCi get what u mean. all of them did regrettable ish but how could u look at that scene where he beats her and think "ketil is bad but what about so and so?" i understand what u were trying to say but i don't know that doesn't take away from the hate that scene conveys.
MunchDaDon
2023-10-06 06:01:42 +0000 UTCThe fact that vinland can make people type dissertation's on characters amazes me (In a good way).
Bigsly
2023-09-14 10:54:03 +0000 UTCI do agree that had none of this never happened (Canute trying to take his land, Gardar escaping to find Arnheid), he probably would have continued to be a gentle and kind (at least on the surface) but that's not really an excuse in my mind... Just because his life's going to hell doesn't justify him beating Arhnheid. Yes it can be very hard to swallow those emotions and not do anything rash, especially if everything's going to shit, but good people don't succumb to that rage. Some people might do something regrettable and depending on the severity of their actions, they should be judged by those actions; Ketil flogged a defenseless pregnant woman, therefore he's an absolute shitstain of a man. He can definitely grow and reflect on his actions, becoming a good person that he might want to be, but as Thorfinn's journey has shown us, it's a very long road of self reflection. (Although Thorfinns sins are technically a lot more severe, but his whole situation is a lot different)
Sammboeh
2023-06-20 21:07:11 +0000 UTCI don't believe for a second that he showed his true colors, he's been a generous and gentle man all his life. His farm is his life, and been very kind to the slaves giving them freedom when they have worked their worth. And suddenly it all came crashing down hard. His farm and his own life was at the end of the road, and he sought mental help from Arnheid because he truly got help from her when he was having a hard time, but when he heard that she tried to escape it was the final straw for him to completely lose it. And in a fit of rage and dispair it's truly difficult to not do something you'd regret. When snake stopped him for a second, he didn't continue. Which more shows that he were just so devoured by the feelings of batrayal in the one person he so deeply wanted to confide in.
Charles Cow
2023-05-31 20:23:29 +0000 UTCOooh I didn't even connect the dots on the barrel, that's some awesome imagery! Although couldn't it also be seen as his true self being revealed under all that "nice guy" façade? But to your first point: Yes, Ketil made the farm extremely successful (Sverkel himself said he never wanted a massive farm), but I think he was always living comfortably and for the most part without any hardships compared to most people (this is all just speculation ofc, but he did fake all that “Iron Ketil” Stuff, so he probably didn’t really fight) As to your second point, I read a little about the Maslow pyramid and I’m not denying that it’s understandable where Ketil’s character went, what I’m saying is that how people react to loss of all those different layers of needs shows what their character is really like. And to your third point: I don’t see this as Ketil standing up for his farm and for the people who live there, I see it as an angry old man lashing out because he finally felt what it actually meant to lose something precious and the final straw was him realizing that the woman he loves doesn’t actually love him back and wanted to leave him all this time. His reaction to beat Arnheid to near death really just shows how he actually views Arnheid and his other slaves, which is where his true problem lies. I think he really does see slaves as human beings (unlike some other people in those times who presumably didn’t even think about slaves), which is why he gives them the “opportunity” to leave, but not until he’s been able to use them to his own benefit (getting richer). Even one of Sverkel’s teachings is “slaves are just unlucky”, which I’m sure Ketil knows very well, but he still decides to use their bad luck for his own luck. So in Arnheid’s case he just wants to control her to love him and when she doesn’t do what he wants, he beats her, just like an abusive husband in the present day. He truly is a one percenter of the 11th century hahah! I think what the show is trying to convey is that all slave masters are truly just horrible people, even in those times. Yes, having slaves might have been the norm but that doesn’t mean everybody agreed with it (especially the slaves). Even in this story there are altruistic people like Thors and Leif who buy slaves to set them free. Ketil could have very well done that: buy someone to set them free and give them a choice of working as a retainer, but ultimately he needed to have absolute control. Sorry about the goddamn paragraph! I tried to trim it down, but I just love talking about this stuff!
Sammboeh
2023-05-16 21:56:39 +0000 UTCIndeed Ketil is a very fascinating character. I do, however, look at his character from a different angle: First of all from what I understood Ketil was actually the one who made the farm as strong as it is. Yes he did inherit a farm from his father, but it can be concluded that it was relatively small, from how he had to hand over his first love. Secondly, it is only natural that his “shaky ass moral” would crumble in the face of acquisition and potential death (you can search up maslow pyramid. Ketil’s actions pretty much goes in line with how the human instinct is supposed to according to the pyramid.) And finally, I am intrigued by your backbone comment and would love to hear more on it, because from how I understood it. Ketil had MASSIVE character development this episode and finally grew a backbone. Before, he always had somewhere to run to, somewhere to hide. If the outside world was making him uncomfortable, he can stay on his farm, if the daily life on the farm was making him miserable, he can go to arnheid. There was always a safe shelter. But now he has nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. He’s forced to solve the problems coming at him, and he finally grew a backbone and decided to face his problems head on. Interestingly, this was also shown in another way in this episode, a lot more direct mind you. Thorgil literally broke Ketil’s hiding place (the barrel) exposing him to the rest of the world
CHUNTARO
2023-05-16 02:04:19 +0000 UTCTo us, it is weird to compare AI and humans. It sure wouldn’t be so for the imaginary society 500 years into the future. Just as it is completely natural for us to think slavery is wrong. there are all kinds of people one every period of time. To the vast majority back then who thought owning slaves is natural, those who are against it probably are probably as weird as those now who think 5g network causes cancer or something. What I’m trying to say that the standard for deciding what is inherently “right” or “wrong” (aka moral) is slightly different in everyone’s eyes. But there is a general consensus to most of the morals. These general consensus changes over time. Feelings are not tied to ration, so it is ok if you hate Ketil, but trying to justify your hate by saying “he’s doing evil thing” or something along the line of that is just not being understanding of how moral works. I might have over reacted in the original comment. But as a philosophy student, I’m just trying to inform people how moral works to better understand and rationalize their own thoughts
CHUNTARO
2023-05-16 01:37:55 +0000 UTC(Fuck I don't know how to comment lmao) While I think your AI analogy is pretty interesting, I don't think the AIs of today really compare to the sophisticated AIs in your '500 years in the future' scenario, while humans in the 1000s were pretty much the same cognitively as humans are now. And also I don't really think Ketil is a nice/good person at all, even if you take the morality of the time period into consideration. He's able to be "nice" because of the utopia that's been handed to him and things have mostly gone his way. Yes, he lost his first love and I'm sure there have been other tragedies that he's gone through, but there has always been the stability of the farm that his father cultivated and Ketil himself inherited. He was able to treat his slaves nicely and give them "opportunities" because ultimately they all made him richer and kept on doing so (I doubt Pater is the only slave that stayed to work on his farm), but as soon as something starts rocking the boat even a little bit, his shaky ass morals crumble and he starts beating up women and children because "appearances" or "hurt pride". He's been shown to have no backbone and in this episode it clearly broke, showing us his true self. Absolutely a fantastic character!
Sammboeh
2023-05-16 00:57:22 +0000 UTCJust bc slaves were normal back then, doesnt mean everyone thought it was ok to treat them horribly or it was ok to own them. Think back to season 1 how Thors bought a dying slave and treated him like a normal person and tried to save him... Im sure there were a lot of people who did not think it was ok to own human beings. its also weird to compare AI and humans...
Trinature
2023-05-15 21:09:46 +0000 UTCspitting facts! also morality doesn't always work on fictional story lol
adam
2023-05-14 12:34:31 +0000 UTCthis is pain to watch, can't wait for the battle! imagine thorgil and snake defending the farm, deadly duo! also while everyone debating on who's right or wrong all i think about is if only gardar didn't get greedy and go to war arnheid and hjalti would have been safe by now ~
adam
2023-05-14 12:30:32 +0000 UTCI find it interesting how people "now" hate on Ketil. I hated this SOB the moment I found out he was cheating on his wife.
LandMarkMetal
2023-05-13 22:17:55 +0000 UTCEverything I said is summary of Yukimura's interviews, tweets, and manga postscript. Check this out, You'll enjoy this show more. https://vinlandsaga.jp/special/special_interview/vol1_part1.html https://natalie.mu/comic/pp/vinlandsaga https://media.comicspace.jp/archives/12242 https://twitter.com/makotoyukimura
ckenae364
2023-05-13 10:36:05 +0000 UTCThank you for sharing the author's opinion with everyone man. Is he your next door neighbour?
JG
2023-05-13 08:16:15 +0000 UTCphilosophy major here lol
CHUNTARO
2023-05-13 01:42:00 +0000 UTCThorfinn doesn’t even know Leif is here yet.
CHUNTARO
2023-05-12 23:08:52 +0000 UTCYou say XXXX and yet we were all rooting for Thorfinn in S1 because he’s the main character. I don’t think you get what saying “this is a show” means. If this was as “modern” as you say Thorfinn should be serving multiple life sentences for what he did in S1. No one is going to let him go free just because he regrets what he did. The audience is SUPPOSED to be horrified. The audience is SUPPOSED to learn all those lessons you’re talking about. What I DONT think the audience should do is stand on a moral high ground and mark Ketil as a “bad person” to justify their feelings, for feelings are irrational and cannot be bound by reason.
CHUNTARO
2023-05-12 23:08:20 +0000 UTCOf course people are horrified because what Ketil did was extremely out of his character. and I literally have an example of what this logic CANT justify: Canute.
CHUNTARO
2023-05-12 22:57:34 +0000 UTCOf course it doesn’t, feelings aren’t meant to be logical. However it DOES mean that people shouldn’t go around trying to justify this hate by saying “he’s a terrible person.” He’s not. In fact, given his position, he’s the nicest person we’ve seen on this show.
CHUNTARO
2023-05-12 22:55:36 +0000 UTCoh i jus left a comment to comment but 3 ppl liked it so guess ppl did care
Fatguyatwork26 .
2023-05-12 22:52:23 +0000 UTCwhen you bait comment but nobody cares 💀
dustrr
2023-05-12 22:51:30 +0000 UTCWith that "logic" you can justify almost anything. All the other characters present at the scene were horrified except Snake. If you or someone you knew was in that position you would not feel the same way TRUST.
dustrr
2023-05-12 22:50:26 +0000 UTCI know what you mean. But in my opinion, many people dont understand the theme of this anime. In s1ep18, Monk said that changing attitude depend on person is discrimination. Thorfinn realized "There is no person who deservers to be hurt" "no one is my enemy". Despite this, many streamers still set someone up as enemy or said this guy is terrible person so he should die. I forgive Thorfinn because, he's my favorite, but I nerver forgive Ketil because I don't like him. is completely against the theme. Like person watching AOT who won't forgive Gabi but he think eren's Rumbling is right.lol This show is entertainment so everyone should enjoy freely. but many people are too emotionally and don't understand what the author is trying to convey.
ckenae364
2023-05-12 04:04:27 +0000 UTCwell put.
dustrr
2023-05-11 20:19:06 +0000 UTCYes, I think discussions around this topic is natural and even beneficial, but anyone insulting others for opinions will not fly. Please keep it positive here! And dont try and convince everyone to feel or believe the same way you do. I think that is the brilliance of this show (along with others). There is no "right" or "wrong" way to feel about each character.
Michelle Lam
2023-05-11 18:21:44 +0000 UTCI think this alls ties back to the writing, and everyones own personal connections to each character. Personally, I judge characters off of 2 main things: 1. what are their true intentions. And 2. Did they have a choice But I dont think there is a "correct" way to feel about each character. You feel how you feel, and the writer helps shape our feelings towards each character on purpose.
Michelle Lam
2023-05-11 18:12:16 +0000 UTCPeople are taken aback by Ketil's behavior but at the end of the day the man is a slave owner. His behavior is not beneath him at all.
InnerCityIndigo
2023-05-11 12:47:01 +0000 UTCMany people get emotional and condemn Ketil for his violence, but they don't get angry about Thorfinn's past murders ,askeladd's slaughter and canute's 120 farmer killings, and Justify it. Because "they are cool" "They had no choice." and "They're sorry for what they did". Plus, people also try to forget that three guards were killed because of arnheid. I think Ketil is scumbag and I like Thorfinn, but this is completely unfair.
ckenae364
2023-05-11 11:54:37 +0000 UTCIs there a moderator for comment sections on Patreon? I love to see the discussions down here after episodes and I’m all for that. But some of y’all are just down right mean. Im seeing comments calling peoples takes “idiotic” and calling people “weirdos” for having opinions. I hate it. Michelle and Ron have built such a great community so let’s keep it that way.
Russell Feathers
2023-05-11 08:18:01 +0000 UTCThis is a modern story meant for a modern audience and it's extremely anti-violence, anti-slavery, anti-war etc. so saying that we are supposed to look at a slaver beating a pregnant woman nearly to death and think "well that's just how it was back then" is outright idiotic and missing the entire point of the story.
Azmaing1
2023-05-11 07:23:48 +0000 UTCIf you think this show is depressing, you should watch To Your Eternity. Hits you right out of the gate too.
Brandon
2023-05-11 00:01:55 +0000 UTCI straight up have to catch up to these vinland saga reactions because i took a couple weeks break from this show cause of how depressing it is.
Logan
2023-05-10 23:48:23 +0000 UTCCanute poisoned his own brother for power and is trying to kill Ketil/his family and take over his land for nothing more than greed/power vs Ketil having a mental breakdown and punished a slave hmmmmmm i wonder who to root for.
Jack Wheater
2023-05-10 22:20:40 +0000 UTCdoesn't mean we cant hate ketil for what he did tho
FURsona
2023-05-10 21:39:49 +0000 UTCThorfinn and Leifs reunion was overshadowed by what happened to Arnheid, it wasn’t shown in the manga aswell but it seems they rushed over straight away when they heard the news
Karaka
2023-05-10 21:02:29 +0000 UTC"You’re insane if ur comparing AI to human beings" has precisely the kind of energy we're referring to, tbh. Who's to say that AI doesn't become as sentient as human beings? Do we still view ourselves superior and justified to do whatever we wish to them? "It doesn’t matter what time period owning slaves wasn’t right and deep down everyone knew that" Is a subjective belief. If everyone thought in such an optimistic manner like you, practices that harmed others (ex. slavery) wouldn't have even come about. Different mindsets exist through different time periods. Mindsets differ between cultures and traditions. What may be moral in a civilization may be immoral in another, and vice versa. I'm not saying an objective understanding of morality isn't necessary for society, but there has to be an understanding that, yes, these actions were horrible in today's standards, but were not deemed "immoral" in those days.
inno#2732
2023-05-10 20:21:43 +0000 UTCFinally, someone who actually has common sense lol
Valk Eir
2023-05-10 20:15:08 +0000 UTCYou guys that have sympathy for him and are trying to use the time period as an excuse are literally missing Thorfinns entire purpose on giving up on violence. In those times violence was a normal thing but he wants to do what’s best and right so why can’t Ketil do the same with Arnheid who clearly needs freedom
Karaka
2023-05-10 20:12:00 +0000 UTCas someone who just took a philosophy course, i agree lmao we simply can't place modern morals onto the past like this and assume people are evil for acting on what's normal for their time
inno#2732
2023-05-10 20:06:26 +0000 UTCYou’re insane if ur comparing AI to human beings, and like I said it doesn’t matter what time period owning slaves wasn’t right and deep down everyone knew that. Arnheid clearly didn’t want to have sexual intercourse with some guy 30 years older than her, she just can’t say no cuz she’s a “slave” and he’s the “master”, that’s messed up in every way possible
Karaka
2023-05-10 20:03:05 +0000 UTCPeople are saying he's terrible for treating a slave like a slave... like wtf? times are different, standards are different, morals are different. how hard is it to understand that people just didn't see slaves as humans? Say in maybe 500 years everyone living is gonna look back on now and say anyone and everyone that ever used AI as a tool are demons. Does that make you, using your Siri/Alexa/Google/ChatGPT a demon by today's standard? as far as I'm concerned, you might as well be the nicest person there is in the whole world. let's make an comparison. If morality was assessed as linguistic attributes, and let's say Portuguese is the moral standard today, would it be deemed wrong if a born and raised British can't speak Portuguese? Of course not, because he's born in England and never had a chance to learn Portuguese, just like Ketil is born in a different time period and will never learn about the moral standards today. Root against Canute if anything. I'm sure killing your own brother is more against the general moral code of that time than punishing a slave, if punishing a slave is against the moral code at all
CHUNTARO
2023-05-10 18:21:19 +0000 UTCnah I don't get yall. yall are saying he's terrible for owning a slave... like wtf? times are different, standards are different, morals are different. how hard is it to understand that people just didn't see slaves as humans? Say in maybe 500 years everyone living is gonna look back on now and say anyone and everyone that ever used AI as a tool are demons. Does that make you, using your Siri/Alexa/Google/ChatGPT a demon by today's standard?
CHUNTARO
2023-05-10 18:09:41 +0000 UTCTHANK YOU Idky idiots are here trying to garner sympathy for him, as if he doesn’t have a sense of right and wrong. He’s just an entitled cunt with a bruised ego. “How dare Arnheid want to go back to her husband that she loved deeply and was taken from after I forced her into submission and sexually assaulted her every night. I was even nice enough to not beat her half to death.”
IGleeker
2023-05-10 18:03:14 +0000 UTCI think everyone gets this. But the action itself is still morally wrong. And was morally wrong back then, it was just legally and socially justified. Because if it was truly right snake wouldn’t have stepped in like that. And the other man (forgot his name) wouldn’t have pushed for Thorfin’s uncle to buy out Arnheid. Ketil deserves zero sympathy and understanding because he himself knows that abuse isn’t right which is why he didn’t hit his slaves in the past. And why he was so reluctant to beat those boys (although he still did). And Ketil knew that he took her from her home, her house, and her husband. He isn’t justified in the slightest, he just has entitlement and ego that being a man in power during that time afforded him. He’s just as disgusting as everyone else there.
IGleeker
2023-05-10 17:58:13 +0000 UTCTo me, it seems possible 4 Thorfin and Einar to go coz right now they are technically free and they can just sail away with Leif but the only reason I don't see them going anywhere is because of Einhard
Moses T24
2023-05-10 16:06:17 +0000 UTCOh that anime is good too nice reccomendation
Yoona Kim
2023-05-10 12:28:30 +0000 UTCThis. Ketil is clearly asshole by modern standards, but in the 11th century he's a pretty conscientious owner. Particularly, Snake is an unbelievably good man in those days. Normally, when guards find out that Arnheid has let Gardar escape, they kill Arnheid on the spot.
ckenae364
2023-05-10 12:16:55 +0000 UTCwatch BLUE LOCK G
Yoona Kim
2023-05-10 12:15:58 +0000 UTCfake as Ketil storys about him is false
Yoona Kim
2023-05-10 12:11:32 +0000 UTCYou have to look at it based on the time period. Ketil is considered more than fair to his slaves letting them work to freedom. Slaves are property at this time and working towards freedom is unheard of. Arnheid is a mistress slave so his attachment is much deeper. Everything he did is wrong by todays standards but “legally” and morally accepted at that time. Slaves are just unlucky and that’s gods will so nothing is viewed as wrong at that time. I told you Arnheid was unlucky.
Dante
2023-05-10 06:21:21 +0000 UTCI mean he technically helping these slaves imagined if they went somewhere else they’d have a way worse experience
Jboo
2023-05-10 05:58:33 +0000 UTCI mean Thors did buy a slave but that is beside the point. I think the point of this show is to point out that people aren't good or bad especially in this time period. Some are good but end up doing bad things or bad but become good things. Some are simply never good nor bad but somewhere in the middle.
AustinB
2023-05-10 05:57:05 +0000 UTCKetil still a g
Jboo
2023-05-10 05:48:29 +0000 UTCNa ketil>thors
Jboo
2023-05-10 05:48:12 +0000 UTCDon't waste your time with the weirdos
Unknown
2023-05-10 05:45:15 +0000 UTCAnd also if he was a “saint” he would’ve let Thorfinn and Einar free without them having to work on the farm for their freedom, that’s what taking advantage of someone is, not whatever Ketil is going through
Karaka
2023-05-10 05:07:37 +0000 UTCAnyone that owns slaves doesn’t deserve to be felt bad for at all, it don’t matter what time period. He got Arnheid pregnant without her will or choice, she obviously can’t say no to him. There’s also a reason why Thors didn’t own or buy any slaves, it was so he could teach his kids what’s right
Karaka
2023-05-10 05:00:54 +0000 UTCIron Fist Ketil 🫣 He hasn’t beat her before. Him beating her was the first thing that came to my mind when he rolled out of the barrel. I’m not gonna be surprised if she ends everything. She’s lost everything she cares for. I hope Einar will be able to keep Arnheid from doing anything. That man is smitten with her. But Ketil, he’s gone mad. But gonna POP off tho 🗡️. I’m so nervous for Thorfinn. EVERYTHING is coming to him. He’s gotta step up to the plate… he has to really, at this point. Canute saying if they resist, he won’t go easy 💀💀 Yeah, this battle is gonna be NUTS 😮💨🔥
Abigail Jerry
2023-05-10 04:14:35 +0000 UTCna i still feel bad for ketil and like him .hes been a saint considering the time period vinland takes place and feels hes been taken advantage off for it. hes wrong for beating the shit out of arnheid but i still want him to save his farm
Jboo
2023-05-10 04:09:21 +0000 UTCi love ketil he finally stop being a lil coward 😛😛
Fatguyatwork26 .
2023-05-10 04:07:17 +0000 UTCKetil a coward
Unknown
2023-05-10 03:29:04 +0000 UTCAfter watching this episode I had to watch something light(Campfire Cooking in Another World w/ My Absurd Skill—a cute comedy/isekai), cause this episode was rough😢 I now hate Ketil
Jahmilla
2023-05-10 03:16:56 +0000 UTC
