Mystery 1960s aviation tape machine - UPDATED
Added 2023-07-18 17:04:57 +0000 UTCI found a weird tape machine on ebay. I should have left it there.
In the past I’ve mentioned how I’ve abandoned videos when it transpired that there wouldn’t be enough to show. This should be one of those videos, but it’s oft been suggested that I should share these failures. That, and the fact I need to try and get ahead, means that you get to see this less than perfect video.
This one does have slightly more meat on its bones that most of my abandoned videos - but whether there’s enough here to hold anyone’s interest, only time will tell.
Take care.
UPDATE:
Reshot everything from 09:13 onwards.
Comments
Fascinating nonetheless.
Arthur Robillard
2023-08-20 16:20:59 +0000 UTCSorry, didn't see all the youtube replies, ignore me! :)
Jennifer Wilson
2023-08-05 20:43:34 +0000 UTCSome kind of quick access flight data recorder like the one in the link? (lever lock looks familiar at least) https://hackaday.com/2018/10/15/teardown-d50761-aircraft-quick-access-recorder/
Jennifer Wilson
2023-08-05 20:33:40 +0000 UTCThe only one thing I can answer with a slight degree of certainty is that it looked to me like there’s no erase head.
Techmoan
2023-07-25 19:44:26 +0000 UTC"Say again" is the standard phrase for repeat request used by pilots (and other RT operators) worldwide, so this seems to be intended for recording radio communications. Given the low serial number, short tape length and FAA reference, perhaps it was used by test-pilots, airworthiness examiners, service staff etc. Do you know if this is a new tape or one that has been erased - sometimes you can tell by residual noise on the tape. I wonder if new tape, bulk-erased tape and tape wiped by passing through a machine on record with no input look different on your magnetic visualizer. Does this machine even have an erase head or is it assumed that new tape will only ever be recorded one time.. Very interesting machine..
Gordo
2023-07-25 19:27:05 +0000 UTCThat’s a good looking colorful headphone head 🗣️🎩
Jørn Birkeland Rosengren
2023-07-22 12:23:33 +0000 UTCI believe some are continuos recording and it holds 30 min record time and overwrites it
Raul Ramos
2023-07-22 12:05:27 +0000 UTCI am definitely late to the party and haven't read all comments but There are recorders built in the cockpit, their purpose to record radio but also cabin talk during an emergency. I am not 100% sure what the trigger is but, I imagine if any of the alarms are triggered you can start recording. This would be consistent with the interface. When such a thing was first introduced, I don't know. The elapsed time indicador seems to fit there too
Raul Ramos
2023-07-22 11:45:38 +0000 UTC😁
MVVblog
2023-07-21 16:26:33 +0000 UTCAlways nice content! Very interesting!
Vicky FU
2023-07-21 12:27:23 +0000 UTCYou know, it’s not really about the actual device for me, it’s the fact that you can present it in such an interesting and engaging way. This is an interesting mystery, and it’s a shame my grandad isn’t still alive. He worked for the faa and other airplane support stuff after WW2, plus he was a tinkerer, probably could have told us what it was. Matter of fact, he probably would have loved this channel! I’ve been a proponent of letting us view these “failures” for a while, glad to see this. Even if some of them only get on patreon as exclusives, watching Matt tinker with a thing even if it eventually doesn’t work, is interesting. I think this audience would be fine with it even if it didn’t get a wide release. Keep up the good work and enjoy the trip!
Jason Adams
2023-07-21 06:19:44 +0000 UTCThat was super interesting! It didn't need music on the tape to make it worthwhile.
Landon Pool
2023-07-21 03:03:46 +0000 UTCIt's these videos that make being a patreon worth it. Thanks Mat :)
Ant Wakefield
2023-07-21 01:40:46 +0000 UTC"Throwaway fluff"..... maybe, but REALLY interesting old tech, especially the way you show it. I'm not going to even hazard a guess as to useage. Even though the tape was nearly blank, still interesting to find something on it. Just Another Excellent Video, sir. Please keep making them, even the fluff is cool!
Stephen Hamme
2023-07-20 16:36:25 +0000 UTCEchoing a lot of the comments here. I too liked it!
Randall Jennings
2023-07-20 02:56:58 +0000 UTCI love the callback to the Tefifon video. But because of Mat’s video. I have way too many Tefi players and bands and will never be rich because of him. DAMN YOU, MAT!!!!!! lol.
Randall Jennings
2023-07-20 02:49:49 +0000 UTCThrowaway fluff or not, the mystery makes it interesting, not to mention the normally interesting aspect of it being an old audio gadget that uses a format that you've demonstrated before. As June Foray would say: "No bigger that a woman's vanity case."
Mark Hesse
2023-07-19 23:47:33 +0000 UTCI can’t see a cockpit audio recorder utilising removable tape media. But as I say - your guess is as good,or bad, as mine.
Techmoan
2023-07-19 21:15:17 +0000 UTC...what about an old version of a cockpit voice recorder ... you do not need to store endless conversations or whatever .... in case you're investigating an accident...you would need just the last 30 mins or so...
Uwe Samlenski
2023-07-19 21:06:08 +0000 UTCVery good; I re-watched your new summation, very well done. It'll be Interesting to see if we get more info, but I'm looking forward to future videos.
Grace Robbins
2023-07-19 17:46:49 +0000 UTCI wouldn’t bother any more about it - the video is a bit of throwaway fluff, a brief diversion…I’m getting on with making the next one ASAP. Hopefully something more engaging.
Techmoan
2023-07-19 17:18:55 +0000 UTCOne last comment and I will leave the topic alone (even though I find it fun to research). I found a photo album on https://www.faa.gov/about/history/photo_album/air_traffic_control and one picture shows a slightly similar item from the right time frame: https://ibb.co/0rcztpQ I also emailed the NTSB asking for an ATC historian contact who may know - but I am not optimistic I will get any response at all from them; after all they're the government. 😋
Grace Robbins
2023-07-19 15:42:59 +0000 UTCI’ve just noticed your avatar. 👍
Techmoan
2023-07-19 15:23:59 +0000 UTCYou're thinking too recently. I don't know what's in an orange "black box" today but for several decades, the data was recorded (scribed) on metal tape so that it would survive the Jet-A fueled inferno after the crash. They may well be digital by now, but it's not a big area of interest to me, so not sure. That said, this looks too flimsy to have been installed aboard aircraft even 60 years ago, and even back then, I wouldn't have expected the *FAA* would have equipment on commercial airliners. But it may well have been a log recorder from a tower or and en route center or some other FAA facility that communicated with aircraft. Another note: No ZIP code on the label. The Post Office Department's "Zoning Improvement Plan" started in 1963, so something with a ZIP can't easily predate that, but I'm sure it took a few years for ZIPs to show up *everywhere* a label with an address would be. Given the "last inspected" sticker of 1966, this unit is surely from the first half of the 1960s, if not earlier (Mat mentioned that the tape format was from 1958, I think). So this is way old (which we knew) and, I'm going to boldly assert, from a ground location.
Peter Laws
2023-07-19 14:38:14 +0000 UTCThe length of the tape does kind of point towards more of a CVR than an ATIS to me. Maybe a tower CVR rather than an aeroplane one as I can’t see why they’d have the FAA involved in anything but certification. (And they’re usually orange) I say CVR because they have an erase mode on them. Any big erasure solenoids hanging out inside?
Kirk Northrop
2023-07-19 11:58:24 +0000 UTCI think split mono sounds very likely.
Techmoan
2023-07-19 09:10:33 +0000 UTCVery interesting. Especially those rather large solenoids in the deck. Is it possible with that many input and control pins; that they engage and disengage the flywheels, reducing dead-air by using the record level to activate them? Also using split-mono through the stereo head to have local input on one channel (right) and incoming radio chatter on the other (left) for greater destinction? If so, that would allow a cartridge to last much longer.
AmpSmashed Music
2023-07-19 08:23:42 +0000 UTCCool! Thanks for the video!
cstone
2023-07-19 05:11:07 +0000 UTCIt looks like according to the web in 1966 Telectro was sold to Emerson. I am assuming this was used in a control tower but I have not found any photos showing this unit. My assumption is that the tape would be pulled in the event of an accident to allow the precursor to the NTSB to run their investigation. Each controller would presumably have their own voice recorder during their shift. I can't verify any of this but that's what my hunch is.
T Howard
2023-07-19 04:15:15 +0000 UTCThis recording actually scares me a bit. It's strange, especially it's strange for someone to record just one word, even if it's just for testing.
MVVblog
2023-07-19 01:05:50 +0000 UTCA bit of Googling, because my interest was piqued - at the approximate time this device would have been manufactured and in use: "on August 23, 1958, the President signed the Federal Aviation Act, which transferred the Civil Aeronautics Authority's functions to a new independent Federal Aviation Agency responsible for civil aviation safety. Although the Federal Aviation Agency technically came into existence with the passage of the act, it actually assumed its functions in stages" "on April l, 1967. On that day, the Federal Aviation Agency became one of several modal organizations within DOT and received a new name, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)." "FAA responsibilities increased even more in the late 1960s. An economic boom brought with it growing concerns about pollution and noise. Aviation, on the cutting edge of technological innovation, became an early area of environmental concern for the public, especially as more and more airplanes traversed the NAS. In 1968, Congress vested in FAA's Administrator the power to prescribe aircraft noise standards" I don't know how any of that matters to the video - other than F.A.A. actually being an acronym for Federal Aviation Agency at that time. https://www.faa.gov/about/history/brief_history#creation
Grace Robbins
2023-07-18 21:51:34 +0000 UTCDefinitely NOT disappointing!
David Peaker
2023-07-18 21:41:26 +0000 UTCYes, could be for ATIS (Automatic Terminal Information Service) - essentially a summary of the weather/airfield conditions, available approaches, Notices to Air Missions and other essential info for the pilots. Although the ATIS information is usually brief, so it begs the question why a long tape would be used. Typically it's updated every hour and each 'broadcast' given a separate letter from the ICAO alphabet i.e. Alpha, Bravo, Charlie etc . Maybe it would have held a days' worth of ATIS announcements? Either that, or a voice recorder for the conversations between ATC and aircraft (at the ATC end, and as stated - for evidential purposes). Would definitely be good for someone from the aviation industry to throw some light on this!
Paul Watkins
2023-07-18 21:22:44 +0000 UTCFair enough, perhaps it’s something to do with the weather. Good spot. I’d better leave the guesswork to others as I haven’t got the foggiest.
Techmoan
2023-07-18 21:07:24 +0000 UTCDeeply fascinating.... Success or not, it's well worth a watch...
Jimmy Mounsey
2023-07-18 20:50:48 +0000 UTCYep, that's the doc I linked to earlier. A description of the TWEB system is on page 16 or 91 of that PDF, and a block diagram of a typical system (showing the recorder reproducer) is on Page 17 of 19. Also, from the FAA: The TWEB is a continuous broadcast of aeronautical and meteorological information over a limited network of Very High Frequency Omni-Directional Range (VORs) and Non-Directional Beacons (NDBs) across Alaska. A similar broadcast service, the Hazardous Inflight Weather Advisory Service, known as HIWAS, is being discontinued in the contiguous United States (CONUS). Source: https://www.faasafety.gov/SPANS/noticeView.aspx?nid=9903 This is one possible use for such a device.
CBits Tech
2023-07-18 20:26:26 +0000 UTCThe FAA had a network of longwave radio transmitters broadcasting the current weather conditions for pilots to tune in and listen to, in the era before you could look it up on your smartphone. This document from 1980 shows the equipment that was used, including a large rack-mount tape transport: https://www.tc.faa.gov/its/worldpac/techrpt/rd8063-1.pdf
VWestlife
2023-07-18 20:15:03 +0000 UTCTelectro sounds like an early Spider-Man villain.
Budget Keyboardist
2023-07-18 20:09:11 +0000 UTCIt’s a product made for the FAA bought from an airplane/aeronautical surplus company - I don’t see where the weather comes into it. But it’s all guesswork.
Techmoan
2023-07-18 20:06:34 +0000 UTCOn a cassette or cartridge the heads push against the outside of the tape - inwards towards the cassette. On a reel to reel the heads come into contact with the inside of the tape - pushing it away from the reels.
Techmoan
2023-07-18 20:02:38 +0000 UTCI could be barking up the wrong tree. Ignore my comment about multi-track above. Here's how I see it working. The operator receives or makes a phone call for the updated weather info broadcast (broadcast over the phone). He/she sets the record level, bias, and output level (for retransmission). Maybe he uses a new tape (no erase head). The new broadcast comes down the phone line, into the recorder reproducer which simultaneously records it to tape and transmits it (like a three-head cassette deck) to the radio transmitter (to be heard by pilots). At the end of the recording, either a tone is used to make the recorder reproducer rewind, or there's something related to that Time Indicator Adjustment or light sensor. The tape rewinds and starts playing again and is transmitted by radio. This continues until the next weather update is ready to be received by phone.
CBits Tech
2023-07-18 19:55:05 +0000 UTCSurprisingly, black boxes utilized magnetic tape for many years - however, the cases continued to be more robustly constructed for fireproof and impact resistance - info gleaned from the Mayday/Air Disasters TV show.
Grace Robbins
2023-07-18 19:40:37 +0000 UTCYou need someone from Air Traffic Control to explain this. I would guess that when everything goes to plan they don't need to keep the recordings for long. When you get a situation like that in Tenerife in 1977 when two 747s collided on the runway who said what is suddenly of great interest to the investigators.
Duncan
2023-07-18 19:30:22 +0000 UTCI've been investigating. It could be for this. TWEB: Transcribed WEather Broadcast. Recorded weather info is sent via phone line to a remote network of offices, where an operator adjusts the incoming signal and records the updated weather onto a Reproducer, which (after adjusting output levels) rebroadcasts the information to radio transmitters that transmit if for pilots to listen to directly from aircraft. The recording loops continously until a new recording has been made. I guess the multi-track thing was for switching between recordings. A control console controlled the Reproducer. Although this document from 1985 shows what looks like Compact Cassettes in use, the document is considering what replacement of this service might be cost effective. My guess is that before the Compact Cassettes were used, this RCA format was used in an earlier system. https://www.tc.faa.gov/its/worldpac/techrpt/rd8063-1.pdf
CBits Tech
2023-07-18 19:25:37 +0000 UTCYou will probably find it is a wire recorder. Tape tends not to survive fireballs.
Duncan
2023-07-18 19:24:37 +0000 UTCMe too Grace! Maybe one head was erasing the oldest channels whilst the other head was recording on the newest with them flip/flopping to keep that last two hours. Matt, if it were on the ground, maybe it would just have a regular power connector, would it need more? In the air, it'd need audio and maybe other data plus be able to send out the alert when it was nearing full, hence the "aeronaughtic" like connector from the 50's? Very exciting!
Michael Thwaite
2023-07-18 19:21:56 +0000 UTCFascinating!
antzpantz
2023-07-18 19:19:13 +0000 UTCHere's a thought, (not much of one, though): Why don't you load up a bunch of your puppet audio tracks, or maybe that soundtrack from the animated show you voiced, onto the tape, put it back into the machine and give it to someone who likes storing this kind of stuff with the idea of selling it on eBay in 20 years, or so? Just imagine what the new buyer would think when he/she cracked it open to discover what mysteries awaited them, only to have Cuba Baion playing in the background with this guy saying, "flippin' heck!"
CrimsonPig808
2023-07-18 19:09:43 +0000 UTCWas the tape twisted in the cart? also strange it wasn't near the beginning when you ejected it!
Darrell
2023-07-18 18:55:32 +0000 UTCI have never been disappointed with your content Techmoan! I am very glad you didn’t leave the tape machine where you found it!
Gadgetman
2023-07-18 18:49:56 +0000 UTCI don't think this device was only for playing back, the Bias Adjust and Input Level controls hint me to it also recording... So I got the same conclusion as you did in your addendum... (didn't expect it ;-))
MrHammond
2023-07-18 18:17:22 +0000 UTCThat is exciting, I'm looking forward to that for sure.
Grace Robbins
2023-07-18 18:03:27 +0000 UTCI’m pretty sure this stayed on the ground. I do have a proper black box though - an orange one, that I hope to open up one day.
Techmoan
2023-07-18 17:59:53 +0000 UTCAbsolutely fascinating. Love the mystery involved in this piece of old tech! So glad you posted this!
Bill Smartt
2023-07-18 17:58:49 +0000 UTCI’m always up for a dive into something bizarre or different. Thank you for sating my curiosity!
Erik Granlund
2023-07-18 17:39:49 +0000 UTCThis item is totally engrossing and it's not at all a failure in my opinion. I am totally on board with learning how the RCA carts (or frankly any consumer recordable format) were used in devices other than home entertainment. So I wonder... Is this is an early black box device? And it's actually black, instead of the normal orange these days. I wonder if it was designed for the early 1950's city hopper commercial line airports or airplanes - literally a first attempt at recording evidence in the event of an airplane crash. What I've gleaned from watching 'Mayday' is that black boxes are only designed to record the last 30 min - 2 hours of a flight before the end of a flight, as it will just keep recording constantly over itself (like a dashcam). Perhaps the flight was too short or maybe they didn't take off. There are so many thoughts running through my mind about this - very interesting and intriguing. As always, take care 🤍
Grace Robbins
2023-07-18 17:38:50 +0000 UTCNot boring at all. Great stuff.
Rick Parsons
2023-07-18 17:22:35 +0000 UTCFascinating 👍🏻
drnickyp
2023-07-18 17:20:14 +0000 UTC
