Patreon's new Service Fee & Noclip

I trust that Patreon is trying to do something they feel is appropriate, genuine good intent, but based on the bigger post I'm not sure why there would be a benefit to NOT bundling the pledges. Maybe it's expectations on those that pledge? Who knows. Unfortunately this has caused me to rethink how I pledge. Bad news, many of my $1 dollar pledges will be going away. Good news, Danny and Drew are going to get more money from me.

No need to apologies I totally understand. Thanks so much for continuing to support our work. We're working hard on it.

Noclip

Patreon posted an update to their reasoning: <a href="https://blog.patreon.com/updating-patreons-fee-structure/">https://blog.patreon.com/updating-patreons-fee-structure/</a> . The gist seems to be that they want to charge patrons on the anniversary of their initial pledge instead of bundling the pledges to the 1st of every month. Hopefully, they add an option for patrons to continue to bundle their pledges, otherwise it still sounds like a straight money grab.

My understanding and math is that it would be $10.64

Kristopher

Seriously not happy about this, really considering my pledges. Already pay a premium being in Canada and having to pay the shitty exchange this really blows. I am all for giving the creators more but to start charging us on top is just shitty.

Dan Longman

I've done some reading, both from creators on here and journalists covering it, and no matter what way I look at it this change seems really bad for people who chip in less than $5 or to a large amount of folks on here.

Matt K

Unfortunately this creates a disincentive for people to pledge as patrons. Due to a percentage amount being taken, the higher you pledge the higher a fee you pay (and of course on the opposite spectrum, the small pledges of a few dollars increase by a proportionally large amount as well). In principle I am against this model change, as it puts more financial pressure on the patrons (directly affecting creators), and more delivery pressure on creators to deliver more for their patrons. I already have to worry about foreign exchange rate fluctuations paying from Australia into USD so this is another fee to take on. Of course I am going to stay a patron as I believe in your work Danny and I want to continue supporting you creating great content and documentaries, but it will probably mean I will have to pledge less. For this I apologise but I understand this is a decision out of your hands.

Bryan Deijnum

You do realise that charging each of your patrons 35 cents adds up to more than what you paid in total fees? Adding a percentage to that only makes it look worse. Please make them know that this is a bad idea.

Am I correst that for a 10$ pledge I will now be paying 13.25?

Rob Curran

Fair enough. As the third middle man in the contract after Paypal and my debit card company I think they could do better and charge approximately 3%. I should probably stop being lazy and using Paypal.

Shapey Fiend

Sorry Danny, I had to go. My reasons why were summed up here perfectly. <a href="https://www.patreon.com/posts/15758286">https://www.patreon.com/posts/15758286</a> - What looked to be better for the Creators, actually ends up being better for Patreon. I will look to donate more directly in the future where these fees are up to your choosing the back end. People always say vote with your dollar, and I am, unfortunately you get hurt as well.

Brad Priller

My support isn't going anywhere. You guys are killing it and the fee is worth it.

I hear you. We are always looking for the best way to accept support. In the past few months we set up our anonymous donorbox <a href="https://www.noclip.video/onetimedonate" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.noclip.video/onetimedonate</a> and of course we have our merch store too. We will continue to look at other options as the business grows but at our scale right now the reality is that Patreon is the best place for our business. We will see how this all shakes out, but right now the best thing we can do is try to incentivize people to stick around and listen to their concerns.

Noclip

I'm sure they made it for business reasons, but short of upping and leaving to another services there is nothing we can do. We actually talk to Patreon quite frequently on the back-end. They give us a lot of support in relation to functionality, bug fixing, business help and loads more. This is the one thing they have done which has bothered me - and what's worse is that it's not really affecting us - it's affecting you. In light of that I think the best thing we can do as creators is make good on the patronage people give us. I don't like the idea of getting tips for free. I want to earn your patronage. Seen as we can't change what's coming, that's what we're going to do. Seen as this makes the 1-$2 pledges a lot less appealing - we're going to add benefits to the $3 tier and above. We'll have news soon.

Noclip

Thanks so much for your amazing support Dean - it means a lot. No need to feel bad whatsover, thanks to you we've been able to make over a dozen docs this year. Hope to see you around on Twitter :)

Noclip

Ugh, that's terrible. So sorry for the extra fee atop of another fee. But really appreciate the support.

Noclip

28?! Wow! Fair play, that's amazing. Though it's awful that has a mass-patron you'll suffer more than most. I think that's terrible for the community here on Patreon.

Noclip

Yeah that would be a fairer way of doing it for sure. Honestly even asking people how much sort of alleviates a lot of that in the old system. Larger pledges swallow more of the fees, but what can you do.

Noclip

Thanks so much, that means a lot.

Noclip

Thanks so much, it's sad of it affects people to donate to more Patreons which is one of the coolest things about this community.

Noclip

They were supposed to email all Patrons either yesterday or today. Check your mail settings just in case it's been switched off (though if you got our Update it's probably not that). They told us about it a few days ago so I wanted to make sure we were able to tell people ourselves too as there are many patrons on here who only support us on the system.

Noclip

Please seek a secondary method for accepting support. The only reason they can do this without repercussion is because there is no competiton. Smaller donations are now too expensive to be reasonable. They (Patreon) only get charged fees per donator, not per creator so it is not honest to bill for each creator. Perhaps become honest and become a creator themslves with a $1 or $2 "donor fee" and then take 5% off of all donations. But honesty and fairness doesn't seem represented by patreon in any of this. Creators are going to lose.

I'll wait to see what exactly I end up paying extra before making any changes, not too concerned at the moment

Liam Brown

Don't fall for this trick. The change was not made to help the creators, it was made because Patreon is greedy. They take $0.35 per pledge, but only pay that fee once to Paypal and the credit card companies. So they earn $0.35 for every additional creator you support. They hope that we still want to support the creators and because it's only a few $ per user we will accept it - but creators should look for alternatives. It's not good that users have to pay $1.38 + tax to give creators $0.95. Patreon should help to reduce costs of micro-transactions - instead they try to make additional profit. They take 31% fees for $1 pledges now!

JPS (RetroFPGA)

Thanks for the explanation. This seems pretty fine for noclip, but if you're paying $1 per item for someone who makes 5 things a week, that's a 35% increase.

Graham Robinson

Danny, I've had to stop my pledge. It wasn't much, but I feel bad because I love the content you have produced. Once my financial situation has improved, I hope to be able to contribute once again. Will continue to support you regardless. Dean @OldSnake79 twitter

Dean Parker

It's an extra 59 cents, outrage, I'm pulling the plug... Ha, I kid. Thanks for the transparency and you guys keep doing you. Nice to see the extra hands will actually mean more output too :)

Steve Fiori

Thanks for the clarity! I only support a couple of patrons personally so it doesn't hurt me too much, though it seems like it could for others. Either way you're rocking it, extra content sounds amazing. Thanks for the hard work.

Conor Buller

In the UK we have to pay VAT at 20% on top of our donations, so I guess that’s going to cost us even more. Still going to donate though and keep doing what you’re doing :)

More NoClip? FUCK YEAH

Wesley Bray

My comment on Extra Credit's post about this: I'm ok with this, but I currently pledge to 28 creators, that's a lot of extra cost. I may have to change how much I pledge to some people. I'll see how much extra next month comes down to and make a judgement call based on that (too lazy to do the math).

I am happy you're getting more of the donation money. I do wish it were structured how the Extra-Life donation are, where it asks if you want to donate X amount or X amount + processing fee. I bet most people would choose to cover the processing fee, but that would give them the choice. Also, that assuages any hurt feelings over paying a bit more.

Good. I'm glad you guys are getting more money.

Clay A Binkley

Thank you for the communication and transparency. It's something that I really appreciate and I know others do too. You are constantly saying "thank you" all the time, and I know you truly mean it. But it's truly in the transparency you give which... well, there's some awkward saying about 'the proof is in the pudding' and this is it. Keep up the awesome work, Danny, and looking forward to 2018!

Kristopher

Thanks for sharing this. I may have to tweak how much I am giving to some of the others I’m donating to, but you guys getting more money is a good thing.

Wesley Novak

Thank you for letting us know about this - but it’s concerning that this is the first I am seeing anything about this - why should Danny be the first to tell us this? Maybe I missed something but I didn’t see anything in my email from Patreon about this change

billythedoor

Running the numbers it looks like users who give a lot of small donations to many different accounts pay a lot more now... I'm not going anywhere, but I don't like it.

takeshikitano3

I don't mind the small percentage that it will go up but the 35 cents per pledge is lame. I can't spare too much these days but I like dropping a dollar or two to people that I appreciate. This seems like a bust for people who support a number of creators in small amounts like me. I understand it but I don't like it.

I've put down the can opener

Noclip

Nuh, don’t spill the beans! Keep them tight in the jar. I love Xmas surprises lol

Tohir Tillyaev

Thanks so much Tohir - we're chomping at the bit to let you know what we've got planned now. I almost want to spill the beans early.

Noclip

For sure. I support a number of smaller guys and it adds like 25% onto the bill. It's like a tip on top of a tip.

Noclip

Happy to pay a bit more, especially if it means that Noclip get more of the funds I'm contributing. Really excited for 2018, good luck :)

Meh, same thing in the grand scheme of things. I think this would affect those who pledge 1,000+ per month. For our max level of $30 the change is almost a rounding error. For smaller level contributors this is a substantial increase in percentage terms (for $1 - this is a ~40% increase) As I see it - Patreon is passing the CC fee along to patrons. Which I think is along what we used to seeing in every store or restaurant we go where we end up paying taxes and fees on top of the purchased product. I don’t know if it is “fair” but it is along the norms of modern day economies. Still here! Looking forward to 2018! I’m confident the quality of the content we receive here is well worth it. From what I read - sounds like Danny is planning to plow that extra cash back into content which is great.

Tohir Tillyaev

I appreciate you being so transparent. I feel really bad for small creators who will absolutely lose quite a few patrons due to this.

Garry Hormann

Honestly, do what's best for you. We don't want anyone to feel like they're patronage isn't worth it. That's critically important to us. We want you all to feel valued.

Noclip

I assume it will especially hurt the smaller patreon donations. People giving $3 or less per month.

Hassun

I don't love this. Not because I'll be paying more (I will keep contributing), but because I suspect many Patreon subscribers will drop their lowest subs to prevent paying more each month. I think this will disproportionately hurt smaller Patreons.

Cody Armacher

WHAT! unsubbed.