Peter Thiel: The Techno-Apocalypse is Nigh
Added 2025-02-04 02:30:08 +0000 UTCIn this episode, Matt and Chris tackle the big ideas—or at least the ones rattling around in Peter Thiel’s mind. Tech billionaire, venture capitalist, and political kingmaker, Thiel has long been a looming figure in Silicon Valley, known for his deep pockets, contrarian takes, and peculiar philosophical musings. But beneath the surface-level libertarian posturing, what does Thiel actually believe? And does it hold up to scrutiny?
The decoders dig into Thiel’s recent interview on Uncommon Knowledge, where he waxes biblical about end times, interprets the katechon with all the confidence of a medieval theologian, and seamlessly blends venture capitalism with prophecies of the Antichrist.
Along the way, they explore Thiel’s method of connecting historical dots with pure vibes, and his Jetsons Fallacy, the deep disappointment that the world looks more like The Office than a 1960s vision of the future. They dissect the Sensemaker Aristocracy surrounding him—with its reverent back-patting and strange mix of deference and obfuscation that turns tech moguls into prophets. They also highlight Thiel’s bizarre leaps in logic, from citing biblical prophecies to warning about one-world free-trade Communist government conspiracies and his confusing stance on technological progress—simultaneously lamenting stagnation while fearing we’re racing too fast toward Armageddon.
Of course, no billionaire worldview would be complete without some COVID conspiracies, and Thiel delivers, crafting an elaborate Fauci Bioweapon Paradox in which the pandemic response was simultaneously overblown and also secretly justified because the virus was (obviously) engineered.
So is Peter Thiel a visionary? A libertarian Cassandra? Or just a very wealthy man with a lot of half-formed ideas and a habit of mumbling them into microphones? Matt and Chris wade through the mess so you don’t have to. Stay till the end for the Revolutionary Leprechaun Theory of Western Civilization… if you dare.
Links
Hoover Institute: Apocalypse Now? Peter Thiel on Ancient Prophecies and Modern Tech (Part 1)
Hoover Institute: Apocalypse Now? Peter Thiel on Ancient Prophecies and Modern Tech (Part 2)
Comments
Thiel is not only an American, he is also New Zealander. After flying in for 3 days in or about 2011, he "invested" several million dollars in something or other and was granted citizenship by the conservative government of John Key. Everyone else has to reside in the country for two years before citizenship is granted. The very definition of corruption.
Greg van Dyk
2025-06-14 12:55:15 +0000 UTCI just laughed out loud in a airport at the ‘low testosterone’ bit
emmajane
2025-03-01 12:32:43 +0000 UTCI looked back (part of) the interview and start to realize why i'm always so puzzeled by this fanatic stance among some specific strands within christanity, against any-kind-of-one-world-governance, about the intrinsically evil properties such governing is supposed to have, and "thus" its identification as always being "the antchrist": It is not in the bible! At all! Not even in the dispensationalist Scofield-bible! It's just and only in those books they mention! (Benson, an anglican priest (son of the archbishop of Cantrrbury) turned catholic priest, just like the cardinal they mention!), Soloviev, a russian philosopher/mystic searching to unite the 3 literally orthodoxy ("therightbelief")-claiming churches) In it, what is in fact a (then by the authors still imagined) competitor to the only almost totally globalized organization then existing, the catholic or hopefully soon unified (orthodox, catholic, evangelical protestant) church, (with whoms global governance apparently is nothing wrong) is portrayed as the antichrist. This world government is portrayed as being totally "socialist", "technocratic" and "totalitarian", "thus" evil, and "thus" considerd the antichrist. Again: this is not in the bible, at all! The books are written in a time, around 1900, when the scientific revolution and certainly Enlightenment and civil- and socialist revolutions were more recent, scientific -and technological development brought many changes , and also (german) critical thinking was questioning the authority of all kinds of theological orthodoxy. So it's a time when orthodox and/or traditional power maybe felt threatened. (That's all i sort of know about it..) Since then, for these-books-believing christians and some others, any attempt to some form of world governance, no matter how light, and how much possibly needed for the reasons e.g. Nick Bostrom gives, is considered totally and intrinsically evil, and identified as the antichrist, period. The attempt to bring these ideas in line with the actual bible, let alone the message of Jesus, results in the astonishing acrobatics seen in the interview. (The more so because PT does view apocalytic literature a bit more as a way of speaking, to warn for downsides of technological development, while Peter Robinson seems to beg all the time to have it taken more literal. (I guess he wants his rapture..although that's hardly biblical either..)) I keep to the view that in the end they confuse the Katechon and the Antichrist, literal or not. A result of them apparently deeming these books more important then the bible. (So for them to be wrong, the bible doesn't even have to be wrong(ish). Only those books..) Next to that, they even seem to have quite some biblical antichristics themselves (at least their leader Trump talks about being favored by God, and lots of peace and prosperity), as well as actually technological and totalistic global governing aspirations, i hear. (At least american..) Given the power these people unfortunately have, both things could be to the detriment of the whole world. And if i were a bible-believing christian i'd also have this view..
Arbo
2025-02-08 17:25:26 +0000 UTCRelationship with the Antichrist couldn’t be healthy.
aneladgam_varelse
2025-02-08 15:22:36 +0000 UTCWhat a wonderful relationship drama Peter Thiel had! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11926699/Peter-Thiels-model-boyfriend-died-WEEKS-NYE-showdown-billionaire-husband.html Peter Thiel has a lover for over 3 years. Peter Thiel’s lover attended Peter Thiel’s lavish New Year’s Eve party at Peter Thiel’s house, uninvited. Sadly the party was organized by Peter Thiel’s husband, who also managed the guest list and was very aware of the fact that he hadn’t invited the lover of his husband. So the husbands argued publicly and the lover was expelled from the party, and after that - cut from Peter Thiel’s money. (How shocking.) Then Peter Thiel broke up with his lover and the lover announced he ended toxic relationship - and probably committed suicide few weeks after, suffering from public humiliation and sudden lack of money. Just imagine argument between Peter Thiel and his husband: why did you spend ~15 millions dollars on your lover?
aneladgam_varelse
2025-02-08 15:21:44 +0000 UTCThe pseudo-profundity of the … pregnant … pause between the words “close” and “quote” is the Signifier that lets you know you’re listening to … deep … deep … …. deep thinking
Eric Quirk
2025-02-07 01:09:20 +0000 UTCThe stuttering reminds me of a Fred Armison character on Portlandia. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zRgg-9Ph3Lk
Amy S
2025-02-07 00:39:53 +0000 UTCThis was a highly enjoyable episode. (I don't mean by that that I agree with Peter Theil; I mean I enjoyed the commentary.)
Sonje Finnestad
2025-02-07 00:16:32 +0000 UTCCorrect. That is why having some historical or even perhaps theological training can be helpful.
John Pohl
2025-02-06 23:06:46 +0000 UTCFor all their love of the Bible, they have no interest in the cultural context the books were written in. JBP and Pageau are the same way.
Ben Godek
2025-02-06 23:01:25 +0000 UTCAgree!
John Pohl
2025-02-06 19:15:52 +0000 UTCWhat an overwhelmingly boring character. In my mind he was a more sinister version of what right wingers see in George Soros, some billionaire scheming and pulling strings behind the scenes. Turns out he's just a boring paypig for these guys. Listening to him meandering and stuttering through the most vapid of concepts and thoughts was insufferable. He has nothing going for him other than his wealth which gives him a baseline level audience which he will never rise above. Also I did notice you refuse to try and pronounce my last name which I will internalize as a personal attack and I will hate watch any and all content to bring about your downfall.
Niek Vandeursen
2025-02-06 18:18:18 +0000 UTCFirst, I thought the interviewer would talk to the King of England but it was only Peter Thiel. Disappointing
Andreas Singer
2025-02-06 17:28:44 +0000 UTCA rare breed! I’m unsurprised to find that one of our tribe has excellent taste in podcasts.
Nina J.
2025-02-06 16:53:21 +0000 UTCHonestly, what a silly man. I'll try and keep it brief. Two points, one ideological and one psychological. Ideology point - all these reactionary ideologies boil down to seeing the loss of historical telos (whether God-given or Hegelian "end of history") as a loss of social meaning heralding the era of liberal degeneracy. If you look at the high-level temporal meta-narrative aspect of ideology - how past, present and future are linked together - then one of the more novel aspects of liberalism is the combination of the idea of progress. That there is a directional relation between past and present which the latter being "better" than the former. But the other side is that the future is not determined, other than a vague D:Ream style "Things can only get better". Imo that's actually a positive of liberalism - that people and castes, etc, etc, are not doomed to be in state of subjugation forever bc that's just the "design of the cosmos", for eg. But some people experience that loss of telos as a loss of an anchor for social meaning. Psychology point - what all these reactionary dudebros all have in common, from "Great Khan Joe" on down, is they are personally terrified of death and getting old. As overgrown teenagers they are railing against "the dying of the light" that they see in the mirror every morning. This is why everything now is simultaneously too old and yet too new. Going too fast and yet not fast enough. As their own "T levels" drop their ideological fantasies turn towards "High T, High Masculinity" ideologies. Anything rather than grow up and accept mundane scientific ideas like death being a key factor in evolution.
Paul Bowman
2025-02-06 13:43:59 +0000 UTCI thought it was odd that he kept going on about now is the first time in history when we have the power to destroy the whole world, which is true. What he didn’t take into account, though, is that the whole world as understood by the Jews/early Christians at the time Revelations was written was much smaller. From their perspective, the whole world could have been destroyed by a large-scale regional war.
Linda Sears
2025-02-06 13:23:13 +0000 UTCI didn’t think it could get worse than Yarvin. He’s like Yarvin with the sense maker tuned up, charisma turned down and a look that has hints of Himmler. At least with Yarvin you could easily imagine him as President Camacho’s comically bad adviser in Idiocracy.
Sam Morris
2025-02-06 08:54:00 +0000 UTCOh no it’s just Curtis Yarvin all over again.
Ben Godek
2025-02-06 07:32:59 +0000 UTCI love epic episodes!
Cat Barrett
2025-02-06 06:34:32 +0000 UTCWhew. Our decoders earned their stripes wading us through this tedious twaddle. I’m going to guess that Theil’s interest in the Bible developed as an adult, rather than being a lifelong practitioner? There’s something of the “zeal of the convert” about him.
Nancy Hale
2025-02-06 05:28:35 +0000 UTCJohn's Book of Revelation is an apocalyptic critique of the Roman Empire likely written about the reigns of Nero and / or Domitian (as I recall). Interestingly, Martin Luther found the text "neither apostolic nor prophetic." It became an increasingly problematic book that underwent forced interpretation and textual abuse through the centuries. Poor interpretations are really tragic as the book really is an interesting piece of ancient literature. Peter Theil's understanding of the book seems pretty juvenile and dangerous . Good podcast.
John Pohl
2025-02-06 02:57:10 +0000 UTCI think I need reptile skin to be able to listen to this guy. Growing some now, be back soon. 🦎
Jen
2025-02-06 02:37:51 +0000 UTCbetter fire up that AI image generator and get to work making chris into the lucky charms leprechaun!! :D
ketracel-white
2025-02-06 01:23:39 +0000 UTCI first came across him when people started pannicking about him getting involved in psychedelics. I had this impression of him as some evil but cunning capitalist. After this episode its clear hes just a total fucking moron who got lucky in life.
Ema Corro
2025-02-05 22:17:22 +0000 UTCRelated to ‘science is slowing down’, Angela Collier does a lovely related video about how she - a physicist - is constantly contacted by people who tell her ‘there are no more breakthrough in physics…’. (She then analyses that in a careful and lightly mocking way …) But Chris, I hate to disagree with you: yet, many breakthrough scientists were making their discoveries while aiming at loolah stuff. And, possibly even worse, being the equivalent of tech and fin bros. For example, Newton was a jerk, ran the royal mint in a vicious manner, fought everyone (Jordan Peterson would have been upset by how little ‘Yes, And…’ he showed his peers), had crappy fans (witness his mates hassling Leibniz) And did it all on the side of his fervent pursuit of astrology …. P.S. I do philosophy and, yeah, shame: Thiel uses many in-house philosophy terms, albeit simply understood ones, such as ‘overdetermination’ (in his context, it just means ‘lots of reasons for it; any would do it…’
Sean Power
2025-02-05 21:41:42 +0000 UTCBest one liner: "You can't tell Jesus not to come back!"
DrJRad
2025-02-05 17:24:19 +0000 UTCIt is still unusual!
Nina Davies
2025-02-05 16:51:44 +0000 UTCHey! A fellow Nina!
Nina J.
2025-02-05 16:44:56 +0000 UTCI'm interested in the decoding of secular gurus, but once these gurus start incorporating religion, it all becomes really boring to me. Love the show though!
brianshmrian
2025-02-05 16:14:16 +0000 UTCThe hubris on display boggles. I'm glad I has a good go failing to be an artist before pursuing a STEM career. At least I'm aware that my free-association shower thoughts are (1} mostly unoriginal (2) underdeveloped (3) not a map of reality.
Edric Matviev
2025-02-05 16:08:44 +0000 UTCThiel's line on the antichrist using fear of global warming to institute one world government is delivered in this soft spoken way gilded with a thoughtful intellectual patina - but it's as dumb as it sounds. I mean I came across that take about 5x a day on climate threads on twitter - "'climate change', they changed the name don't you know!, is a Trojan horse for big government socialist intervention" So much of the right wing just baseline associates climate change with encroaching communism. Thiel is just regurgitating that in this quasi theologian/quasi guru way but it's warmed over agitprop
Jonathan Swayze
2025-02-05 15:57:38 +0000 UTCYour line about gurus finding peace if they dealt with their masculinity neuroticism and 'stopped making it everyone else's problem' is absolutely tip top. So true
George
2025-02-05 15:51:32 +0000 UTCIs Thiel arguing that the Bible is a kind of speculative fiction because the authors’ insights into humanity led them to predict what we’d become in the future if we moved away from our moral foundations? I’m just trying to figure out his point here.
Linda Sears
2025-02-05 15:01:52 +0000 UTCI think they are both just nostalgic for the cartoon version of the 1950s and early 1960s America in their different ways.
Linda Sears
2025-02-05 14:59:21 +0000 UTCI reckon he could even afford a couple of hours with a lovely clinical psychologist - “Peter, would you describe this line of thinking as healthy or helpful?”
S Alexandra
2025-02-05 12:20:57 +0000 UTCAgree, everyone needs friends to call them out on their bullshit
S Alexandra
2025-02-05 12:17:38 +0000 UTCMaaaatttteee, there’s way too many actual problems in the world to be inventing more. I don’t have time to live a miserable existence with this many unoriginal cognitive distortions. Matt is so right, it’s fucking weak sauce
S Alexandra
2025-02-05 12:08:52 +0000 UTCI first saw him in a debate with David Graeber (it’s on YouTube). He’s just gross.
Dr Marti McAuley
2025-02-05 11:46:33 +0000 UTCGreat episode! I’ve been harping on for years that Thiel is the one to watch out for! After listening to this - he’s also way dumber than I thought 😂
Dr Marti McAuley
2025-02-05 11:38:52 +0000 UTCI’ve been shouted out! I’d written it off. Enjoyed the Zoolander reference somewhere deep in the episode. “He’s so hot right now” 🤣 .
Neil vdp
2025-02-05 10:49:03 +0000 UTCPeter Theil make me a normal worker feel so smart and intelligent. It makes me sad a guy like this is a billionaire who can influence world leaders.
Tobias nilsson
2025-02-05 09:12:53 +0000 UTCJust seeing “close quote” made my stomach churn
Rod Hodges
2025-02-05 07:10:16 +0000 UTCI don’t see chapter markers in this episode. Maybe there are too many chapters for the Overcast podcast player to handle? Either way, I miss having chapter markers.
Steve Alexander
2025-02-05 06:52:23 +0000 UTCI can't... I just can't... I'm throwing in the towel... This is the first ep in a long time I won't finish... I can't handle this BS. It's really infuriatingly boring. There's nothing there. If this is one key hero of the right, the right is bankrupt...fuck me!
Chomagerider
2025-02-05 05:46:22 +0000 UTCWe're also closer to it now than fifteen minutes ago. Makes you think.
Ryan O'Rourke
2025-02-05 05:45:55 +0000 UTCBeautifully said!
Christopher Kavanagh
2025-02-05 05:32:48 +0000 UTCHow many times can one say Peter Thiel while interviewing Peter Thiel?
Paul Hanrahan
2025-02-05 05:15:48 +0000 UTC“Close. Quote.” Oy, i think i sprained my eyes. 🙄🙄
Cuzn Ed
2025-02-05 03:59:44 +0000 UTCWhat if he was talking about Constantine the comic book character?
Orchidspork
2025-02-05 03:56:12 +0000 UTCRight, everyone needs friends to bust their balls
Mark Francis
2025-02-05 03:31:11 +0000 UTCThat’s why the libertarian and nationalists coalition is doomed to fail. Interesting which faction wins out. The Bannon’s or the Musks
Mark Francis
2025-02-05 03:22:42 +0000 UTCAs much as I hate both Jarvin and Thiel - a hatred too great to be quantified even by a sensemaker with access to geometric unity - I'm so glad you guys did these episodes, because it's important to highlight that THIS is what passes for intellectualism with the "dissonant right" set; THESE are somehow the luminaries spoken of in hushed tones on every self-fellating podcast used to intellectualize their political movements. As you mentioned, their entire contribution is iterative, not generative; because they are fundamentally conservative, they can only reach backward to imagine the future. For them, the cutting edge lies in looking further into the past than the last pompous fuck to find the elusive golden age to which we must return: "You think we need to go back to the true intentions of the founding fathers? What about monarchy?" Case in point: the incomprehensible popularity of Bronze Age Pervert, whose name is not as ironic as it should be. It's insulting on a number of levels that anyone thinks this vibe-based pontificating is profound, but as a woman, I find it personally rich when coming from the same sort of men whose worldview invariably includes shaky evo-psych justifications for why men - by virtue of their innate predisposition toward engaging with the world through logic, unimpeded by emotionality - are the natural rulers of the species, and to pretend otherwise by talking about social constructs or whatever is to ignore SCIENCE. To them, women - or even the tendencies within society that they perceive to be feminine in some way - are chaos dragons that must be ordered by "masculine" systems created and perpetuated by high- T heros to prevent the literal end of the world. I'm no psychologist, but it seems like many a guru could finally find some peace if he just dealt with his neuroticism about his own masculinity and stopped making it everyone else's problem. This tendency is so common that I propose adding a dimension to the bonus points section of the Gurometer: maybe something like "Weird Hangups About Women and Masculinity." I guarantee that almost every single guru would ding this category in some way; even Robin DiAngelo has some peculiarly strong feelings about why (white) women are uniquely awful.
Nina J.
2025-02-05 02:13:20 +0000 UTCThe interviewer was real real bad
Michael John
2025-02-05 02:13:16 +0000 UTC“Wow, i never thought about it that way before, boss!”
Cuzn Ed
2025-02-05 01:58:55 +0000 UTCIs Thiel channeling Sabine? The two of them could do a collab: “Science is BROKEN, BANKRUPT! We used to have an abundance of theories in the important field of living forever. But now all SCIENCE seems to want to do is treat diseases and try to prevent them!” 😆
Cuzn Ed
2025-02-05 01:55:04 +0000 UTCSo according to Nick Bostrom this 'one world government' or something alike would not be the antichrist, but the catechon! I would be alarmed! What if this is true? After all it's an equally random assumption! Who/What then is the antichrist? Should i instantly change my alignments in this world to save a place in heaven? Nothing. No reaction at all. They don't even seem to notice. Remarkable. So assuming at least it not being a one world government, there are 2 further things we know about the antichrist (afa i remember). According to the bible: it (he?) boasts its religiosity and favour with God, or illegitimably brings the service of the highpriest, in the front of the temple, which is considered to be desecrecated because of this. (This is called "the abomination that causes desolation") Many, the masses, follow him, according to Revelation. According to Thiel: it talks about Armageddon and such all the time.
Arbo
2025-02-05 01:11:18 +0000 UTCI have obviously heard of Thiel before this episode however, never felt interested enough to actually look him up. After listening to him it's quite apparent he's an idiot. Why would anyone (does anyone actually?) take this man's ideas seriously? And how, having more money and resources than 99.999% of people, is he unable to ask the simply question of 'how could I be wrong about this?'
swine butcher
2025-02-05 00:57:45 +0000 UTC"If there is an end point we're closer to it now than 2000 years ago" 🙄
Ema Corro
2025-02-05 00:51:08 +0000 UTC9.53 minutes in and Im already feeling a little stabby at PT and his interviewer
Ema Corro
2025-02-05 00:35:11 +0000 UTCOh brother. Peter and I live in different realities.
Tim Tripp
2025-02-05 00:07:47 +0000 UTCSo much bollocks. It did stick out of how much of a misanthrope asshole he is when positing the bollocks that Constantine was a better Xian than Mother Theresa . Thanks Chris and Matt!
Hugh Haggerty
2025-02-04 23:23:43 +0000 UTCGreat point! Yes, it is!
Jonathan Crymes
2025-02-04 23:23:08 +0000 UTCI really like this whole thing about low T males and the problems in government because the other implication is that like you know, fuck women altogether apparently. I really love this trend of these guys telling me that women need to get back into the kitchen. It’s very 2015 4Chan of them.
JGraves
2025-02-04 23:11:39 +0000 UTCHis solutions, to the degree they exist at all, is "yes but we'll do it better."
Russell Halberdt
2025-02-04 22:55:13 +0000 UTCFor a guy calling the universities bankrupt, Thiel sure does have some Philosophy 101 term paper thoughts.
Russell Halberdt
2025-02-04 22:52:36 +0000 UTCMy god he’s worse than Yarvin.
Nick Nightingale
2025-02-04 22:13:06 +0000 UTCPlease excuse my ignorance as I'm not a billionaire. But at least in recent political eras, socialists/communists/trade unions are famously opposed to globalization and free trade?! Remember Seattle? Thiel seems to think that Bernie Sanders would want NAFTA when literally the opposite is the case. But I guess he got his information about Bernie from a wacky Christian sci fi novella from 1907 so...
Kerena
2025-02-04 21:08:57 +0000 UTCWhen will you guys take on Ben Shapiro? He really gets my dander up.
Frances goulart
2025-02-04 21:01:29 +0000 UTCAt minute 37 I was reminded of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUbjpwyesk0
Tom Kerwin
2025-02-04 21:00:36 +0000 UTCIs thinking about the Fourth Protocol and the plot to explode a dirty bomb in the UK forcing Ken Livingstone to be Prime Minister but yours works too.
Cate Kneale
2025-02-04 20:51:50 +0000 UTCI am actually very worried about a gigantic space goat eating the sun and no one else is worried about that and therefore I am much more sophisticated than Peter Thiel.
Cate Kneale
2025-02-04 20:50:14 +0000 UTCOn one side we’ve got the tech bros, wanting the world of the Jetsons, and on the other side we’ve got the paleo bros, wanting the world of the Flintstones.
Linda Sears
2025-02-04 20:40:43 +0000 UTCWow. I had no idea Thiel was this nuts. The Eric thing really does make sense now. Eric rarely associates himself with people who are actually smart.
Daniel Hochmuth
2025-02-04 20:37:38 +0000 UTCI was yelling 'this is just left behind!!!' like the whole time haha
Kerena
2025-02-04 20:09:36 +0000 UTCGood one, Matt and Chris. Round up the waffling windbags, one at a time! A life's work! But you are both up to it!
Frances goulart
2025-02-04 20:03:47 +0000 UTCEvery time! 'There are so many complex reasons for [bog standard right wing trope] and I definitely know all of them and am not just saying this.'
Kerena
2025-02-04 19:52:27 +0000 UTCIsn't this just the Left Behind books, almost to the letter?
Kerena
2025-02-04 19:47:01 +0000 UTCIs a state of consciousness required to follow this exchange? And to think I could have gone to mass!
Frances goulart
2025-02-04 19:40:40 +0000 UTCGod told him St. Paul matters. And god told him to slaughter us surfs.
Awakening Wonk
2025-02-04 19:19:36 +0000 UTCAlso Chris is really underselling how much “I was a speechwriter for Reagan” is the core of his personality.
TheSoilWillSaveUs
2025-02-04 19:11:17 +0000 UTCWell this is surreal. I went to college with one of Peter Robinson’s sons. I knew he was a big conservative guy, but not that he was still in the game. I’m also sure everyone will be shocked to know that that son now works at the University of Austin.
TheSoilWillSaveUs
2025-02-04 19:05:09 +0000 UTCGot to minute 2:45 and there it
Brice F
2025-02-04 18:41:17 +0000 UTCI think you’re probably right. Without going tinfoil hat about it, organised religion looks like an attempt at unified global power. If that were your intent, you’d want to throw shade on any other organisation that might challenge your position, globalised government would be globalised religion’s biggest competitor and therefore worst enemy. . 🤣
barbara wright
2025-02-04 18:38:45 +0000 UTCI’m going to reserve judgement on his thoughts on Universities, because the US system is different to the U.K. system, and so I can’t judge. I’m also not sure if his issue is with academia or pedagogy. I enjoyed university, and my courses encouraged us to think about our subject in a multidisciplinary way. Sometimes I think dissatisfaction with University masks a dissatisfaction with one’s own path through university, and Thiel was the captain of his own ship, in that regard.
barbara wright
2025-02-04 18:29:32 +0000 UTCYes. Jones didn’t invent most of his conspiracies either. I don’t actually know the origins of any of it. Presumably 19th century millenarian Christianity combined with cold war anti-communism. But I’ve been aware of the basic schtick since the 1980s. It’s not remotely deep or interesting; it’s rather pedestrian. Peter Thiel ought to know better. But these ideas aren’t made more interesting or novel by a tech billionaire being interested in them. Thomas Edison believed in the turn-of-the-century spiritualist stuff. That doesn’t mean we can talk to the dead in a seance.
Jonathan Crymes
2025-02-04 18:21:13 +0000 UTCThey were inconvenienced by lockdowns, and they hated it. But they can’t admit it, because that would expose them to ridicule for being selfish. So their defence mechanism is to attack and undermine the bodies that asked them to act in ways that support the common good. I doubt they realise why they’re so committed to their causes.
barbara wright
2025-02-04 18:17:25 +0000 UTCI immediately thought his world government/AntiChrist line was a repackaged Alex Jones bit.
barbara wright
2025-02-04 18:08:14 +0000 UTCFeels like Theil et al want a justification for their vulturistic capitalist id and then go digging into arcane Christian lore/fan fiction to find a justification.
Brice F
2025-02-04 17:32:47 +0000 UTCOh, the affection in Matt's voice when he's talking about the "real sensemakers"
kurdelis
2025-02-04 17:21:18 +0000 UTCI grew up in an Evangelical Christian church in the 1980s and 1990s and this globalist/antichrist conspiracy stuff was pretty common. Thiel said nothing in this interview that I wasn’t exposed to 30 years ago. This is really common stuff being treated as interesting because a rich, tech guy happens to believe it.
Jonathan Crymes
2025-02-04 17:20:20 +0000 UTCAbout halfway through this episode. I get the impression that Peter Thiel doesn’t have anyone around him to refute his musings like regular people do when we wax philosophical. So he never has any pushback to bring him back to reality.
Ron McKinnon
2025-02-04 16:51:50 +0000 UTCTheil *is* an anti-Christ!
KBDaxio
2025-02-04 16:51:04 +0000 UTCEveryone should be talking about the anti-christ. There is nothing more pressing.
Nina Davies
2025-02-04 16:33:39 +0000 UTCAnti christ.. is that anything like anti-freeze. That's not so scary.
Frances goulart
2025-02-04 16:24:34 +0000 UTCI'm starting to get the sense that Matt and Chris don't take this whole apocalypse thing very seriously.
Greg Oleszewski
2025-02-04 15:43:17 +0000 UTCIt kind of reminds me... (look, I'm vibing like a sense-maker!) of some parts of the effective altruism movement that seemed to argue, "Oh, we have to hoard all this wealth in dodgy off-shore tax havens, because *in the future* we will use it all to prevent greater harm to all..."
Shaggy Rabbit
2025-02-04 14:29:53 +0000 UTCLap-dog interviewing .. no cigar.
Frances goulart
2025-02-04 14:23:25 +0000 UTCWhat does St Paul have to do with anything going on in the year 2025?
Frances goulart
2025-02-04 14:07:49 +0000 UTCI caught that Dune reference too. A covenient justification for any attrocity that the Messiah Thiel Muad-Dib might have no choice but to initiate~ "Oh, yeah, sorry about the mess, but trust me, if I hadn't done this, it'd be Shariah law and e-scooters for everyone..."
pete
2025-02-04 13:31:35 +0000 UTCI feel bad for Bach’s Brandenburg Concerto #3 third movement. Peterson uses it as well. Leave Bach alone!
Linda Sears
2025-02-04 13:26:45 +0000 UTCNice, I will have to check out that book. His story was featured in BBC4 podcast "Things Fell Apart" - quite interesting listen.
kurdelis
2025-02-04 13:23:57 +0000 UTCthere should be
Shaggy Rabbit
2025-02-04 13:01:43 +0000 UTCAnd never mind that it is only 8 am!
Frances goulart
2025-02-04 12:56:17 +0000 UTCIf I have to share the end times with these guys, where's the chair and the necktie?
Frances goulart
2025-02-04 12:51:36 +0000 UTCMaybe you make this point later in the podcast (or maybe you don’t, and I am just wrong about it), but isn’t Thiel’s “middle path” (between chaos and one world government/the anti-Christ), just the end of the first Dune book? I get the feeling that a lot of these gurus and tech visionaries are just vibing off the most recent bit of fantasy or pop culture that they encountered. Maybe Theil just read Dune (or saw the recent movie), and really liked the idea of a god-king with magical wisdom and steely determination, who guides the entire universe (!) on the path between endless war and brutal autocracy?
Shaggy Rabbit
2025-02-04 12:51:04 +0000 UTCUrbane AND sophisticated? ! Isn't there a law against such wonderfulness???
Frances goulart
2025-02-04 12:48:54 +0000 UTCWell worth the the wait! 😉
Rufus Evans
2025-02-04 12:35:55 +0000 UTCI'm begging critics of universities to consider anything other than: A: Their memory of the specific course they did decades ago B: There inference of what's going on based on stuff they heard a couple dudes say C: What they think the content of a course is, based on whether they think it's worthwhile, despite having less than a surface-level understanding of the subject I did a music degree, that featured a fairly weighty critical theory module, with a heavy focus on the African Slave Trade, Civil Rights Movement, and Postmodernism. This causes me to find people wading into these areas, with 0 background in studying them, embarassing and amusing. Whenever I mention these modules to anyone who did not study a humanities course, they are usually very surprised, and then assume that it wasn't very comprehensive, and no they do not want my reading recommendation.
Matt
2025-02-04 12:29:11 +0000 UTCDoes the right/conservatives/reactionaries have any thinkers that are actually impressive? I can't think of one. But maybe that's the point: their thinking is just a way to justify all the fear-based impulses that are wrecking this pitiful lot.
Kit Zullasson
2025-02-04 12:28:29 +0000 UTCGreat job, guys. Another excellent episode.
pete
2025-02-04 12:17:16 +0000 UTCThiel reminds me of the Emperor's New Clothes story...I enjoy laughing at how stupid and pompous and absurd he is, but then i get sad and scared when i remember how much power he has.
pete
2025-02-04 12:16:22 +0000 UTCOof that was an epic decoding guys! Man, that breathy, halting, serious tone Thiel and his interviewer talk in is so insufferable. The sensemaker comparison is apt. Jordan Hall & Jamie Wheal were the first people I thought off when I heard these two start talking. And the way they drone on about inane stuff, you soon lose the track of conversation. Btw, why does Thiel feel so restless? Why is he so resentful of a society which has allowed him to amass so much wealth, become a billionaire and have incredible political power? It is the same pattern I notice with many uber wealthy tech bros. They hate the societies they live in despite profiting immensely from it. There is a dangerous undertone to all this, a commitment to radical ideas and a strong whiff of fascism. These people may be unimpressive, inarticulate blowhards but are very scary indeed. Btw, one thing you guys didn’t mention was Thiel’s infamous article & quote. “Freedom and democracy are no longer compatible”. It was relevant because he was talking about his libertarian politics, which were routinely touched on in this interview.
SHOUNAK SARKAR
2025-02-04 12:04:03 +0000 UTCThis book was an interesting insider perspective from the son of an old school religious guru. https://www.amazon.com.au/Crazy-God-Helped-Religious-Almost/dp/0306817500 who I think would be an interesting guest actually.
Emma
2025-02-04 11:53:44 +0000 UTCI don't think it's surprising that the right wing gurus are all turning Christian (in their own fashion). I think the right has long aligned itself with the fundamentalist church in a cynical grift to use religious moral concerns (abortion, gay marriage etc.) to trick lower class Americans to vote against their own best interest. I can't quite explain it but it makes sense to me that all these new right wing influencers are going back to the old playbooks w a little bit of a revamp in that they are pushing a slightly more intellectual form of Christianity. Or maybe pseudo intellectual is the word.
Emma
2025-02-04 11:48:40 +0000 UTCI did feel that we were entering into some seriously Monty Pythonesque territory whilst discussing the antichrist, and which of the existential threats we should worry about more. Indulgent word salad.
Sue Fricke
2025-02-04 11:40:25 +0000 UTCWow. That was some serious decoding. Nice work! Just one thought. You said Theil was rewriting the bible in his own image. Which he does seem to be. But the idea that the Antichrist will be a leftist humanitarian do gooder has actually been spruked for decades by the evangelical religious right. For instance in the Christian super best-seller novel series 'Left Behind' the Antichrist figure actually seems great. He's trying to solve hunger and bring in world peace.. The funny thing is a lot of fundies seem to forget that those were novels and it has fed into their paranoia that any large international humanitarian groups are suspect because they could lead to the Antichrist.... or something like that....
Emma
2025-02-04 11:21:23 +0000 UTCPeople just get baked by online propaganda. If you're outside that bubble it never makes sense. But once you're in it, and more and more people are, it's a whole new reality to live in.
Unfitforpurpose
2025-02-04 11:10:25 +0000 UTCYou absolutely do not need to defend rationalists. Though fair point that the real idiocy around Roko's basilisk mostly happened once it escaped containment and idiots like Musk started going on about it.
Unfitforpurpose
2025-02-04 11:06:41 +0000 UTCGood for you, cupcake
Ando
2025-02-04 10:57:00 +0000 UTCSame. Would still rather listen to Thiel than JBP or Rogan or whoever.
JackG
2025-02-04 09:58:59 +0000 UTCBest Quote From The Podcast: "Take off your lab coat, put down your beakers—it's time to think big. Pick up your Bibles, grab your bongo drums, and step into the sense-making circle. We're going to sense-make the shit out of it."
Gearóid
2025-02-04 09:53:40 +0000 UTCI want the platinum plus😭😂
Lillie
2025-02-04 09:46:27 +0000 UTCI honestly don’t get the anti lock down, anti masks, anti vaccine people. It’s like we don’t have an entire planet of different approaches to compare and that they can’t count.
Ryan Booker
2025-02-04 09:41:27 +0000 UTCI love how these pretentious wankers always say things like “there are countless reasons we could discuss”, but never actually mention or discuss a single one.
Ryan Booker
2025-02-04 09:12:06 +0000 UTC12 minutes in and Peter Robinson is already doing my head in
Subodh Kafle
2025-02-04 08:55:06 +0000 UTCI think I’m going to need additional reinforcing before diving into this one. Now…where did I put that bottle of Johnnie Walker Black…?
Paul Ditta
2025-02-04 08:53:27 +0000 UTCI've listened to and enjoyed a few Peter Thiel interviews over the years. He's said some interesting things—perhaps a bit guru-esque—but entertaining nonetheless. When I came across this particular interview, I could only make it through episode one; I had absolutely no idea what it was about. It reminded me of when Eric Weinstein started his podcast, The Portal. At the time, I listened to his interview with Thiel expecting it to be interesting, but I had no idea what they spent a few hours talking about. Has Joe Rogan popularized talking for hours for its own sake, rather than because people are interesting and have so many compelling things to say? As Jordan Peterson might say, 'It's not obvious.'
Gearóid
2025-02-04 07:04:46 +0000 UTCThank you for this mammoth decoding: now I understand the wait. Only an hour in, and finding him eminently slappable.
barbara wright
2025-02-04 06:39:31 +0000 UTCIt's also Nick Land's major idea (a very bubble-popular philosopher from the UK -- one of the founders of the CCRU in Warwick University in the 1990s), and he's a major populariser of Curtis Yarvin. lscs, Land's idea is Captialism (more Marx's Kapital than actual economies) is a manifestation of an AI retrospectively altering the path of evolution via quantum tunnelling to arrange the circumstances of it's creation. Which would make Musk something akin to a Moses. It's all perfectly reasonable now I think of it.
Ymirsdreams
2025-02-04 05:46:26 +0000 UTCI just read some of Yudkowsky’s later posts and in typical fashion he seems to be using 1000s of words and tying himself up in rhetorical knots that seem rather contradictory… “Again, I deleted that post not because I had decided that this thing probably presented a real hazard, but because I was afraid some unknown variant of it might, and because it seemed to me like the obvious General Procedure For Handling Things That Might Be Infohazards said you shouldn't post them to the Internet.” I’ll be glad to hear that this is not a genuine concern of rationalists but when you have people like Yudkowsky reacting like this, it’s not exactly clear.
Christopher Kavanagh
2025-02-04 04:45:21 +0000 UTCI need to defend rationalists a bit, Chris' anecdote at the start about the "AI God" (aka Roko's Basilisk) is a pretty severe distortion. This idea did come out of the rationalist community but almost no one ever took it seriously. It got famous because the guy who came up with it apparently drove himself into a state of mental distress about it, and then Yudkowsky overreacted by banning all mention of it from his site Less Wrong, creating a Streisand effect. Yudkowsky eventually lifted the ban and wrote a post about why he didn't believe it was a valid argument.
FolkSong
2025-02-04 04:27:20 +0000 UTCCan't wait to listen to this. Although my initial guess is that Thiel's diatribes and rantings will be very similar to Yarvin's hehe!
SHOUNAK SARKAR
2025-02-04 03:44:00 +0000 UTCHoly shit 3 hours of decoding
Bernt Goodson
2025-02-04 02:56:06 +0000 UTCFirst
JcribinYaPants
2025-02-04 02:53:24 +0000 UTC
