A Fieldspotters Guide to Debate Pervertry and Guru Rhetoric w/ Destiny
Added 2025-01-18 08:34:41 +0000 UTCIn the wake of Lex's recent interview with Zelensky, we thought it was the perfect moment to dedicate an episode to a Fieldspotter's Guide for the rhetorical and manipulative techniques that flourish in the Gurusphere. To help us navigate this terrain, we're joined by streamer and online debater Steven Bonnell—better known as Destiny—who was previously the subject of a Decoding episode and Right to Reply. Destiny has spent years cataloguing what he calls "Debate Pervertry" tactics during his clashes with streamers, influencers, and online pundits, so we thought it might be worthwhile to compare notes.
Expect discussions of gurusphere favourites, including strategic disclaimers, decorative scholarship, the heterodox pose, and civility porn; as well as a deep dive into some rather colourful debate pervetry tactics including the pinball of bullshit, the lazy gardener, and the clown mirror. Along the way, we also engage in our dialectic on the methods of Dr. K and whether Sam Harris leans too heavily on interpersonal dynamics.
So, join us for a lively and hopefully informative episode that might even give your bullshit detector a bit of a boost!
Links
Our episode on Dr. K that covers the reprimand and the Reckful streams
Our Right to Reply episode with Sam Harris that covers some of the topics discussed
Comments
Loved this, shame he flew too close to the corny sun and hope his confidence in clearing things up after the legal stuff is vindicated because it'd be a shame to lose this quality of thinker on the left to some goofy degenerate shit
DrSmartThong
2025-02-14 12:27:13 +0000 UTCLove Destiny’s vocal impersonation of Jordan P !
Jill
2025-01-26 03:09:13 +0000 UTCJust as a heads up: two women have now come forward and accused Destiny of sharing sexual content of them without their consent. One of them is filing a lawsuit against Destiny. This pains me, as i have been following him and been a fan for several years. But i thought it would be good for you to know, as I don’t want your affiliation with him cause any harm. He has acknowledged that he shared the material willingly to a 19 year old woman he met online. Here is a link to one of the women’s statement: https://pxie412.substack.com/p/i-will-be-suing-steven-kenneth-bonnell Edit: did not know this was discussed in the live chat. I’m keeping the comment up nonetheless
Joakim Kolle
2025-01-23 15:50:30 +0000 UTC“Many things fill lakes and rivers” I almost rolled my eyes out of my head
Bobby Wayward
2025-01-22 22:12:40 +0000 UTCI started listening to this before the inauguration. Now listening to it afterwards, it is even more significant. Especially the hypocrisy between politics in the US and the tech bros at the inauguration. 1 day later they are controlling our social media posts to please Trumpus. I appreciate your conversation and the quirky names of these strategies. Thank you for this conversation.
Chandra Collins
2025-01-22 01:50:15 +0000 UTCIronic they were talking 10mins prior about taking small clips out of context and reacting to them then immediately being guilty of it. Completely leaves out the broader point vaush was getting at.
Norbs
2025-01-22 00:28:58 +0000 UTCThis must’ve been by far one of the, if not the best episodes. Destiny, regardless of how blunt he can be, is a total genius!
Nico
2025-01-21 05:38:07 +0000 UTCLove when destiny is on. I don't think I would watch his own content, but I love his extreme vibe paired with both of your calm dispositions
JJ
2025-01-21 04:21:18 +0000 UTCLmao and now this news about Destiny 😂. Civility porn? Nah, he’s about that revenge porn. Great guest 🙄
Kelley
2025-01-21 03:54:24 +0000 UTCGotta say that René Girard’s “The Scapegoat” is a good read about how society blames its troubles on minority groups that are powerless (hence, scapegoating). He is a better philosopher than you state.
John Pohl
2025-01-21 03:47:36 +0000 UTCThank you, point taken!
Kerena
2025-01-20 22:00:27 +0000 UTCJesus can you guys stop with the Destiny chats? Surely there are better people to talk to.
Kelley
2025-01-20 18:47:18 +0000 UTC"Sounds like he is engaging with online morons rather than people with an understanding of the region." That's most of his debates. But the thing I'd urge you to consider is, how much of the online conversation has started bleeding into the real world. How many people unironically think Israel has been committing intentional genocide on the Palestinian people, or that vaccines are now a dangerous thing. One thing Destiny has said repeatedly, is that he really wishes experts would step into the public conversations more instead of him. That it should be on the academics to set the public narrative, and that the unwillingness to engage in these spaces has created a vacuum that's being exploited by malicious actors. And we now have direct evidence of it. Russia has literally been funneling money into online voices that spread their propaganda. That's an incredibly dangerous thing, and it's still surreal to me that we don't do more to shut down bad talking points. It feels like we're in this world right now where you're either fighting to stay afloat in a sea of disinformation, or try and avoid going into it all together. And one point I would always raise, is that if we only criticize those willing to try, and not those staying silent, then we reinforce the environment that empowers all this disinformation.
Bogrim
2025-01-20 18:15:17 +0000 UTCI apologize for bringing politics and substance into A fun talk about rhetoric. And I'm sure Destiny would "beat" me in a debate. But it is really weird to hear him treat these issues lightly. Perhaps I am not made for the rough-and-tumble world of political streaming.
Kerena
2025-01-20 16:41:34 +0000 UTCDestiny is probably the right person to discuss debate mechanics in the online world. However, sometimes his grasp of substance seems superficial. Which I suppose he admits. This came to mind regarding his commentary on the West Bank. Who is he debating with that is not aware of the status of the Palestinian Authority government in the West Bank? Sounds like he is engaging with online morons rather than people with an understanding of the region. Certainly it doesn't sound like he is engaging with Palestinians. I'm not sure in what context he would deploy this information as a "gotcha." There is no question that the West Bank is under Israeli military occupation, is in no sense an independent state, and is being illegally settled by Israel. It is also beyond clear that the goal of the right in Israel, with the consent of Trump, is full annexation.. If Destiny believes that the role of the PA somehow justifies the occupation, I remain confused by his brilliant debate artistry.
Kerena
2025-01-20 16:38:25 +0000 UTCI got to spend a little time with him after he presented some of this when I worked in academic Psychology. I didn’t understand the flaws in the methodology at the time.
DJM
2025-01-20 15:56:56 +0000 UTCIf you guys ever run out of topics I have a suggestion to have more field guides. I wonder if you could get into more solutions and maybe have guests that work with victims and can offer insight into how to overcome these assaults on our critical thinking. So many people I know still think that followers are just dumb. I stand up for them. Anyone can fall into these traps.
Jen
2025-01-20 13:04:17 +0000 UTCMatt‘s gentlemanly mask slips 🙀
mobitobi
2025-01-20 10:40:13 +0000 UTCAh no I checked, that&s actually just what happened!
Christopher Kavanagh
2025-01-20 03:28:50 +0000 UTCSure. It just wasn’t, y’know, the topic at hand. I don’t begrudge the guy having his say, it just made it harder to listen to.
Cuzn Ed
2025-01-20 03:28:23 +0000 UTCYes!
Christopher Kavanagh
2025-01-20 03:23:47 +0000 UTCI think it’s fair enough for him to push back on a point he disagrees with Matt and Chris, especially given they they talked about unwillingness to get into the weeds and lack of disagreements in the gurusphere.
Morgan Kokic
2025-01-20 00:29:22 +0000 UTCWere you citing Daryl Bems Psi research, Chris? Regardless, I appreciate your focus on research methods.
DJM
2025-01-19 22:44:59 +0000 UTCVery interesting. But every time Destiny was speaking, I thought my phone was on 2X speed.
Cara Robertson
2025-01-19 21:47:08 +0000 UTCY u Nn
Cara Robertson
2025-01-19 21:19:27 +0000 UTCWould like to see a periodic check in with destiny
Charlie Friedberg
2025-01-19 20:01:42 +0000 UTCI also got Destiny and Dr. k confused! 😂
Jess B.
2025-01-19 19:58:31 +0000 UTCI agree with you, Dave. It is a heuristic unto itself.
Jess B.
2025-01-19 19:56:43 +0000 UTCWow- Nuance, reflecting how easy of us lives day to day. And yet you’ll probably get criticism
Brainbiter
2025-01-19 19:44:16 +0000 UTCOmg at the water / acqua / agua guy 💀💀💀 Also I’m not really into Destiny because reasons (though I’m enjoying this convo for sure), but if he spoke in that Jordan Peterson voice all the time I might tune in 🤣 Obsessed
Monica B.
2025-01-19 19:42:10 +0000 UTCThanks, I was not aware of such a sub reddit. I'll have to look for that.
Sasa
2025-01-19 19:21:42 +0000 UTCYou can find it in the info section of the the decoding the gurus sub reddit.
YellowDreams
2025-01-19 19:15:00 +0000 UTCThis was a good episode. Not sure how I feel about Destiny. I do very much appreciate how he seems to be ethical and the rage he expresses about hypocrisy I def can get on board with him with those points. As an American, we can def can be quite self righteous and aggressive lol 😬
Kimberly Beer
2025-01-19 18:50:46 +0000 UTCI think Destiny is strangely awkward at beginning or ending interviews too.
Ben Godek
2025-01-19 18:45:39 +0000 UTCIt was very quick, but he also said he was comparing his business to other large scale online therapy companies. Don’t we know that Better Help is terrible? But then he would make other statements about how there are all these problems with therapy. He’s always so hard to pin down.
Ben Godek
2025-01-19 18:44:02 +0000 UTCIt’s so good
Dave Lavelle
2025-01-19 18:03:04 +0000 UTCThe working backwards from "who profits from this?" To support a Conspiracy theory has been part of conspiracy subculture for decades. It's essentially the core of 9/11 Made it Happen On Purpose logic, working backwards from the way the events paved the way for the War on Terror. It's linked to the lack of chaos/opportunity and general understanding of odds/statistics in conspiracy communities. You won't find brains that can grok that stuff there. Everything happens for a reason. Fate is real. There are no coincidences, and if we look at who profited or benefitted from any event, we can work backwards and assume they orchestrated it. Literate conspiracy enthusiasts used a fancy Latin term "Cui Buono?"
Jonathan Swayze
2025-01-19 17:44:56 +0000 UTCI don't think Destiny's critique was targeted at the dictionary or people using the dictionary, but rather people appealing to the meaning of a word in common parlance to dismiss an argument within a highly specific context or a field where the word may carry a different meaning or connotation.
Elija
2025-01-19 17:24:51 +0000 UTCNeed a discussion on this new Curtis Yarvin interview with the NYT. https://youtu.be/NcSil8NeQq8?si=-c_sqSs41Hsp1iuW He was called out in the first five minutes for pontificating and not answering the question. 😄
CH
2025-01-19 17:19:38 +0000 UTCEnjoyed this a lot!
Protagonist Science
2025-01-19 16:52:44 +0000 UTCI’m mostly enjoying this Guide, but i’m having to listen in short-ish sessions. Perhaps it’s my ADHD, perhaps it’s Destiny. Who could possibly say? This bit about Dr. K, for instance, is maddening. I can’t even remember which DTG host referenced Dr. K as an example of a conversation tactic that i also can’t even remember now. Why can’t i remember? Because Destiny got so hung up on the specifics of the Dr. K stories, he forgot that they were talking about “debate pervertry” and turned it into what has felt like days of hand-wringing about how harshly or not to criticize Dr. K himself. I don’t think he’s INTENTIONALLY derailing the conversation—i just think he lost the plot, one result of which is a thoroughly derailed conversation. Good on ya, Matt, for trying to get the conversation back on track. (Emphasis on “trying“.)
Cuzn Ed
2025-01-19 16:21:14 +0000 UTCI don’t think it is a ‘purity test’ to be over the same old sexist bro bs, or to call it out. Most of us have no power, anyway, as is evidence by who is popular among edgy or edgy wannabe types, and people (especially women) who call out popular guys who talk shit about women in gross ways her laughed at or ignore or eye-rolled anyway, so it’s hardly the cool position to be in. I’m only halfway through the episode, and it is enjoyable so far (though anyone else think destiny and dr k sound the same voice/tenor wise…it was occasionally confusing me who was talking hahahaha). I do think this is a time where we have to work together to fight real threats, 100%, and we have to continually learn how to talk to one another across various perspectives about serious topics. but that doesn’t mean letting sexism slide (or oh yeah genocide apologizing). Like…what’s the baseline? Truly though, I don’t think about Destiny at all except when he shows up on decoding
Monica B.
2025-01-19 15:59:57 +0000 UTCDestiny publishes his obsidian notes publicly and there's a whole section on "Debate Pervertry" on there.
Haku
2025-01-19 15:59:10 +0000 UTCAnother guru for you all to consider: the diary of a ceo guy. He allows these charlatans on his show with no pushback. Kind of an ‘indirect’ guru
Kgar
2025-01-19 14:19:57 +0000 UTCThoroughly enjoyable episode. Cheers guys!
Matt Carr
2025-01-19 13:55:33 +0000 UTCEnjoyed this. We need a DtG swear jar for Destiny's appearances though. 100 to Give Well each time he says fuck!
Alex H
2025-01-19 12:05:33 +0000 UTCI dont agree with him at all on the issue. I also feel like hes got no skin in the game or real expertise so not even sure why people have him on debates about it. But aside from some stupid flippant comments or pedantic arguments about the definition of "genocide", I didnt really feel like he was cheerleading. Its the issue I googled him on most because it is something where I find it very hard to let things slide. But at the end of all the googling my main feeling was just "meh". Ive also been watching a lot of Palestine supporters do Trump apologism for the last while because even though he literally uses the word "Palestinian" as an insult, they feel so nihilistic towards the Democrats that they convince themselves he's better. So yeah at this point I feel like purity tests have become pointless because the world is too fucked and everyone is responding badly.
Ema Corro
2025-01-19 11:04:01 +0000 UTCHow’s that working out for you in the US?
Brainbiter
2025-01-19 10:26:56 +0000 UTCThat was educational and entertaining, thanks a lot! 😃But it's become obvious that your coverage of Dr.K was too superficial and you need to do a deep-dive on him. 😈
Roland Weber
2025-01-19 10:24:35 +0000 UTCI think "have you been cheerleading for ethnic cleansing and genocide?" is a purity test, and a good one to have. The fact that isn't a line in the sand for many people only shows how successful genocide apologists have been, and Destiny has played his part. It's not bad to have good standards. Destiny should be a pariah.
David Noble
2025-01-19 09:53:58 +0000 UTCGreat episode, thanks chaps! Both a very practical field guide and fun shop-talk kvetching of the 'uh, I hate it when they...' variety
John S Durst
2025-01-19 09:21:24 +0000 UTCI thought Id hate Destiny before hearing the original decoding. My politics are much farther left than his and I dont like bro types. But I actually ended up liking him. I respect that he researches stuff, has a sence of integrity about what he argues for and seems to be very able to take criticism and disagreement. Id rather listen to someone like that than someone I agree with most of the time but seems a bit slimey (and Ive met/heard from many over the years).
Ema Corro
2025-01-19 08:56:56 +0000 UTCIt is hard not to conclude that the gene pool needs a little chlorine…
Paul Ditta
2025-01-19 08:36:22 +0000 UTCHa! Fair point
John S Durst
2025-01-19 08:34:00 +0000 UTCOn a serious note - people criticising Destiny, or implicitly the crossover ( which I enjoyed and think it was useful to have techniques Gurus/ MAGA do laid out in a technical sense for a larger , younger audience that Destiny brings) need to realise the media landscape has fundamentally changed and purity testing isn’t going to cut it , especially with the younger, any more. As Michael Jackson ( and Paul McCartney) once said - there’s good and bad in everyone. Destiny is a typical new media figure but clearly aligns with rationality, science, and facts in ways many others don’t. Can be controversial and can be funny. I disagree with much of his Israel/Palestine commentary for example. But there’s clearly a very real tectonic shift/ hinge point in the West happening in a dangerous way and people like Destiny are not the scary ones. And the non- loony, non- conspiracy, non- Yarvin adjacent need to stop bringing knives to gunfights. And the lads also didn’t shy away from disagreeing- eg the Dr K stuff - which was legitimate- and showed you can actually have adult conversations with challenges and Destiny, to be fair , despite K being a friend- didn’t try to move on but listened and engaged.I wonder if this conversation is a step in DTG starting to more actively try save civilisation … as Destiny pointed out the Gurusphere is now essentially a political quasi religious movement- MAGA adjacent in the States. Politics being downstream from culture and all that….
Brainbiter
2025-01-19 07:11:48 +0000 UTCWill we get a PDF summary of this field guide?
Lys
2025-01-19 05:35:17 +0000 UTCIt gives him that traditional wisdom to lean into. A type of appeal to authority combined with his conventional qualifications.
Lys
2025-01-19 05:30:11 +0000 UTCIm glad he was corrected about that "aqua" thing. Sounding so smug while not even getting the word right was infuriating.
Ema Corro
2025-01-19 04:20:48 +0000 UTCLove me a Destiny collab
Sean Boerger
2025-01-19 03:30:10 +0000 UTCIt’s impressive how Destiny can modulate his presentation style to mirror the setting. Noticed this from the original decoding episode. He can be gross on a stream then composed (if a tad edgy) when talking to, say, Peterson, conventional media, or our DtG guys. Most people do switching as standard social interaction, but Destiny is something else. Excellent & valuable episode just the same.
Nancy Hale
2025-01-19 03:21:49 +0000 UTCEmma, agree. A total dealbreaker
Monica B.
2025-01-19 03:20:17 +0000 UTCMe too!
Monica B.
2025-01-19 03:15:57 +0000 UTCOh hell, not Dr K! Its too hot in my part of Aus today to add a psychological meltdown to my physical one ! 🥵🫠😂
S Alexandra
2025-01-19 02:40:56 +0000 UTCLove this, great to hear Destiny again. Hope we hear more from him too.
Cat Barrett
2025-01-19 02:16:58 +0000 UTClol they aren’t that catchy, nor are most of them new 😉
Christopher Kavanagh
2025-01-19 00:56:20 +0000 UTCJust FYI- in Law- at least the American legal system - judges and attorneys DO USE A DICTIONARY, better yet- multiple dictionaries. "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is.” - Bill Clinton
Molly Bretthauer
2025-01-19 00:56:18 +0000 UTCI just got to the point where someone called Andrew Tate a "brother in christ", and threw up a bit in my mouth...
Mad Hatter
2025-01-19 00:52:03 +0000 UTCI was silently screaming and horror listening to you guys coin all these new phrases! Creating your own anachronistic terminology that gets picked up by a community. If “the lazy gardener“ takes off I’m reporting it to the DISC!
Par
2025-01-19 00:45:57 +0000 UTCI think if you were in destiny‘s position regularly arguing politics with MAGA insanity, including with literal fascists, the vitriol and outrage people here have for Dr. K would seem ill-placed. In the grand scheme of things given the current era of conspiracism and political division, Dr. K ascribing undue weight to Ayurvedic philosophy is rather inconsequential. If Matt and Chris were to attack the irrational Christian beliefs of prominent Democrats who have publicly stated their belief in the power of prayer, for example, I think destiny would view that as similarly ill-placed. Destiny is first and foremost a political streamer who lives in the world of politics and strategy. Even if he doesn’t disagree that Christianity is irrational, and there might be some harm caused by a politician positively discussing prayer, he would probably still see it as silly to focus energy on that vector of attack of a political ally. I think someone like Jordan Peterson undoubtedly is causing unbelievably higher levels of harm towards society than someone like Dr. K who holds woo beliefs but otherwise agrees on most political issues. I can’t say I really disagree with this and sometimes scratch my head at the level of vitriol from this community over something like Dr. K given the higher objective damage of other gurus. It’s clear Dr. K still has an uncontrollable need to defend Ayurvedic medicine at times, but if you go to his YouTube channel and watch any of the content he puts out for the last few years, there’s no mention of it. His self-help videos seem to be referencing solid research. The occasional comment on a live stream or something isn’t the main point of his work
Par
2025-01-19 00:41:00 +0000 UTCThis was so good. Destiny is great with you guys - you should consider some kind of periodic check-in.
Scott Grande
2025-01-19 00:34:25 +0000 UTCHe's become somewhat of a darling for a certain conservative Christian intellectual group
James P.
2025-01-19 00:29:47 +0000 UTCI think Matt’s talking about Gad Saad’s wing more than good evo psych.
Christopher Kavanagh
2025-01-19 00:28:50 +0000 UTCI wouldn't have predicted how much Matt despises René Girard lol. I found the Scapegoat very interesting tbh. Though it's way outside my field so maybe there's a good criticism there that just isn't obvious to me. No endorsement of how Thiel cites him obviously
Joshua
2025-01-19 00:20:17 +0000 UTCIs evolutionary psychology then really right wing bullshit? I read David M Buss’s book on it, felt all pretty decent findings? Or are we talking just about poor quality studies within the field? Great episode tho!
CuriousGeorge
2025-01-18 23:53:53 +0000 UTCAgree. Destiny has some interesting insights and all. But I can't take him that seriously because of his gross behaviour with his female fans. I mean, the bar is in hell. So he's better than a lot of other influencers since it seems he's not actually a rapist. But still he has been horribly disrespectful to some of his female fangirls /lovers which undermines everything he says about feminism. I find him gross as well.
Emma
2025-01-18 23:35:46 +0000 UTCThere was one brief moment where he literally sounded indistinguishable
CHUSSTERR
2025-01-18 23:20:00 +0000 UTCGreat ep love the destiny content
CHUSSTERR
2025-01-18 23:18:56 +0000 UTCFun listen! You should create a cheat sheet of all these debate tropes we can share out. We need to spread 'debate literacy' to the masses.
Talent Pun
2025-01-18 23:17:38 +0000 UTCI appreciate that Chris repeatedly brought up how problematic Dr. K is, especially since Destiny seems willing to give him pass after pass on bad behavior. Destiny's responses were particularly frustrasting precisely because Dr. K employs so many of the very same bad faith rhetorical tricks that Destiny keeps claiming to despise. I also couldn't help but notice how different Chris and Matt's tone toward Dr. K was when compared to the tone they've adopted previously. In their 3-part series, they were both scathing about Dr. K's reprehensible behavior. In this podcast, not so much. I realize that's probably due in part to the desire to be polite to their guest, but frankly I don't think Dr. K deserves politeness. The guy is an all-around bad faith actor, as their 3-parter made abundantly clear.
Brink
2025-01-18 23:15:04 +0000 UTCNever really understood the appeal of Destiny. I mean, yeah, he's got rhetorical skills and does well in debates, and many of his takes appeal to someone on the center-left. But he's also an unappealing edge lord who frequently engages in provocation for provocation's sake. He was on his best behavior with DtG, but on his stream I find him pretty hard to take.
Brink
2025-01-18 22:51:26 +0000 UTCBorelli
James P.
2025-01-18 22:26:58 +0000 UTCEnjoyed that. I enjoy watching Destiny crescendo. Thanks guys.
Paul Ditta
2025-01-18 22:12:27 +0000 UTCi need to get a life.
Baloglu Dogan
2025-01-18 22:10:42 +0000 UTCMaking sense, being measured, admitting flaws and not swearing profusely?
Carina S.
2025-01-18 22:09:52 +0000 UTCYou have a good point. Plus, he’s invested decades in meditation to perfect this intuition…you’d feel a bit daft to do that, when it was an innate talent all along🤣
barbara wright
2025-01-18 22:07:00 +0000 UTCThat makes sense. Someone else suggested that the Rogan of the left would have to emerge organically, and that ties up neatly with them needing to come from a non explicitly political group.
barbara wright
2025-01-18 22:03:57 +0000 UTCHe's a total degenerate but he is remarkably sharp
James P.
2025-01-18 22:03:02 +0000 UTCGlad to see that pod mentioned here.
James P.
2025-01-18 22:01:30 +0000 UTCI think that talk stems from an assumption that the Dems did something wrong, and a magic bullet will make it all right. Surprisingly🙄, the magic bullet changes depending on who is talking, and it usually involves resolving their own pet peeve. You make a good point. Would Rogan have become huge without a whopping investment by Spotify, though? Sometimes these things are less organic than you’d hope.
barbara wright
2025-01-18 21:59:14 +0000 UTCI enjoyed Destiny’s Peterson voice.
Linda Sears
2025-01-18 21:58:45 +0000 UTCMaybe because Ayurvedic medicine sounds cooler to his audience?
Linda Sears
2025-01-18 21:56:28 +0000 UTCThe problem is that destiny is coded as political, explicitly. The insidious thing about the MAGA capture of alt media is that it's largely implicitly political. The barstool sports guys, Rogan, the IDW crowd, fitness and wellness YouTube... all those spaces exist separate of politics and smuggle in their right wing slants. So they have cover ("joe Rogan endorsed Bernie so he's actually a liberal", Bret w is a disaffected leftist who is just calling out the excesses, huberman runs a health optimizer grift but won't even mention vaccines during the height of a pandemic). This all gives the appearance of authenticity to right wing biases of these alt media spaces, whereas destiny is clearly a neo liberal shill with no pretenses of just being a normal dude talking about MMA or whatever
James P.
2025-01-18 21:53:32 +0000 UTCCool another episode discussing “Bonneli”.
Rod Hodges
2025-01-18 21:51:56 +0000 UTCGlad to give a lil bit back
mobitobi
2025-01-18 21:49:15 +0000 UTCYeah no, I dont get the point of that talk anyways. Joe Rogan wasn’t “installed” as podcast king by the right wing. You dont really just choose a Joe Rogan, they have to happen naturally.
Chandler Barlow
2025-01-18 21:48:47 +0000 UTCI think they're a pretty natural fit
James P.
2025-01-18 21:45:09 +0000 UTCAt the end. Very enjoyable episode. I’m interested in everyone’s view on a question I have: in the wake of the US election, and the ensuing handwringing about the lack of the left wing equivalent of a Joe Rogan….I’ve seen Hasan Piker suggested as someone who could step forward and fill that Left-Rogan role. But Destiny seems a more logical fit. Thoughts?
barbara wright
2025-01-18 21:31:38 +0000 UTCWhat is that "best"?
Frances goulart
2025-01-18 21:24:28 +0000 UTCAgree. Enough of this pretender!
Frances goulart
2025-01-18 21:21:04 +0000 UTCAgreed. Destiny seems like the kind of con prodigy that Matt snd Chris would go after!
Frances goulart
2025-01-18 21:19:55 +0000 UTCMmm.. your bromance with Destiny leaves me a little on the sidelines. Not because of the mention of Ayurveda. I'm a yoga teacher.. I know where to find my chakras, but Destiny is a little much...
Frances goulart
2025-01-18 21:17:43 +0000 UTCglad we can all agree the South is filled with dipshits and the West Coast weirdos.
S Garvey
2025-01-18 21:10:37 +0000 UTCSee yer Curtis Yarvin in the New York Times now - prescient
Brainbiter
2025-01-18 20:29:33 +0000 UTC50 minutes in and I’m wondering why Dr K would rather lean on the mystique of a chakra that boosts his intuition, than acknowledge that he has a talent for pattern recognition that allows him to get quickly to the heart of the matter in his diagnostic practice?
barbara wright
2025-01-18 20:04:10 +0000 UTCHaven’t watched but not a big fan of Stephanie Lepp.
Christopher Kavanagh
2025-01-18 19:43:42 +0000 UTCI feel like the accountant at work engages in the Unicorn Position. I try to repeat back what I think he wants me to do and I'm always wrong according to him. I can't peg that guy down, but now I have insight.
Jess B.
2025-01-18 19:22:00 +0000 UTCWhat do you think about the Antidebate concept? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZxYZGxjMAw
Bran
2025-01-18 19:18:25 +0000 UTCI’m so happy you decided to mention Dr. K and his appearance on Bridges, I could tell that Destiny was a little uncomfortable but it needed to be brought up.
Adalheidur
2025-01-18 19:14:39 +0000 UTCThe ITYSL reference streak continues!
James P.
2025-01-18 18:58:03 +0000 UTCDestiny is clever, and he is great at debating, and he has good insights in this conversation, and he is self-deprecating (which I think is disarming for Chris and Matt). But he is also a total scumbag, and should rot in his little corner of Kick where he belongs.
David Noble
2025-01-18 18:21:43 +0000 UTCIt is wild. I couldn’t believe it
Tom Wheatley
2025-01-18 18:08:48 +0000 UTCI think the lads spoke about it when they covered him
Tom Wheatley
2025-01-18 18:08:07 +0000 UTCRegardless, the whole ethnic cleansing thing should make him beyond the pale. But that's the "political" realm that you steer clear of.
David Noble
2025-01-18 17:58:48 +0000 UTCThe sign offs in general are my fav part lol.
Kyle
2025-01-18 17:55:39 +0000 UTCI thought Destiny admitted to it. I haven't heard about his relationship with Southern.
David Noble
2025-01-18 17:55:25 +0000 UTCSounds to me like Dr K was comparing outcomes between a *business dataset* created in-house and prone to whatever many degrees of bias (in my business life I've seen plenty of self-reported "results" go around lol) with therapeutic outcomes from real clinical studies that showed a lower success rate from real therapy. When he said the words "clinical population" about the data from real therapy it just made me think he was comparing a non-rigorous, internal business study with a rigorous clinical dataset and never thought for a moment his results could be so much higher because his "confidential metrics" were designed for a good business result, not a clinical result??
Jonathan Swayze
2025-01-18 17:52:37 +0000 UTCDon’t agree with that assessment Tom but appreciate you being willing to listen despite your feelings towards Destiny. And David I think the Nick Fuentes thing is actually just a lie. It’s just based on a leaked sex tape with a guy… because he’s bisexual. I don’t think it’s good to promote that kind of attack regardless of feelings towards him. If you wanted to criticize him for that kind of thing you’d be better to focus on the relationship with Lauren Southern.
Christopher Kavanagh
2025-01-18 17:51:28 +0000 UTCNow i feel cheated
James P.
2025-01-18 17:48:02 +0000 UTCThere is more in the raw version.
Christopher Kavanagh
2025-01-18 17:47:13 +0000 UTCtake my 2 bucks, Bill
CakeUpton
2025-01-18 17:43:05 +0000 UTC@Tom can you provide a citation for this claim? That sounds pretty wild.
Mark
2025-01-18 17:30:59 +0000 UTCKnow Your Enemy did an episode on the American Right's fascination with Rene Girard: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5YtcH1dvzn5vmVbeWjVlwP?si=70g2Ka7VSRKZrtkmqQnA_Q
Subodh Kafle
2025-01-18 17:26:55 +0000 UTCAgree David
Tom Wheatley
2025-01-18 17:25:03 +0000 UTCAlways!
Christopher Kavanagh
2025-01-18 17:23:23 +0000 UTCI’ll fix it!
Christopher Kavanagh
2025-01-18 17:23:01 +0000 UTCYES! LOVE THE CURSING!
James P.
2025-01-18 17:21:52 +0000 UTCThe more I have learned about Destiny the more he disgusts me. At first he was just some debate bro that I didn't pay attention to. But his exploitation of his fans for sex, his calling for people to kill themselves, his support of ethnic cleansing, and literally giving a blowjob to the neo-nazi Nick Fuentes... the list goes on and on, and he's surrounded himself with other degenerates who will go to absurd lengths to screw with people. Really is the worst of the internet.
David Noble
2025-01-18 16:18:09 +0000 UTCMy God that was enjoyable. I saw destiny interviewed Dr K on his podcast and wished someone would call him on it - good job there. I wish you would've mentioned the fact that Dr K keeps bringing up "the religion of science" among everything else but that was just great. Honestly, i wish there were more clips out there of destiny ripping into people like Tim Pool, it's just delightful. The clips of him calling JBP on his climate and covid bullshit to his face are like a nice cup of hot chocolate on Christmas to me, say what you will about his style...
PaulBFB
2025-01-18 15:28:16 +0000 UTCYou guys really bring out the best in Destiny.
Carina S.
2025-01-18 15:09:01 +0000 UTCThank you!!
Lillie
2025-01-18 14:59:53 +0000 UTCtrue, at times Destiny speaks so fast I had a hard following
Sasa
2025-01-18 14:51:16 +0000 UTCReally enjoyed this episode -- great additional innovation on the guru investigation theme.
Ymirsdreams
2025-01-18 14:49:52 +0000 UTCThis discussion requires 0.75 speed speed selection 😀
jss
2025-01-18 14:46:17 +0000 UTCHe legit called for and justified the killing of a young child.
Tom Wheatley
2025-01-18 14:44:19 +0000 UTCEditing slip around 2 hours 13 minutes Matt says destiny can give his example after Chris; cut; Matt gives his example
mobitobi
2025-01-18 14:43:09 +0000 UTCThis will help steel me up for the incoming clown car presidency. Thanks. 🙏
Linda Sears
2025-01-18 14:01:21 +0000 UTCGod damn, does anyone else feel that interview sign offs are often awkward, or am I just imagining awkwardness?
Ando
2025-01-18 13:50:27 +0000 UTCWhy do you find him disgusting? Genuine question as I haven’t listened to the Destiny decoding video and am not au fait with the streaming world.
RabdoRabbit
2025-01-18 13:31:14 +0000 UTCI really like this episode, not yet done though. Is the Gurometer list with the 11 items somewhere downloadable? I'd like to have a look at it and see if there is a way to create a checklist combining the themes of the list with Destiny's Online Notes. I have a hunch there is something to be done. One could even consider adding another layer by referencing archetypes of tales and stories used in storytelling (Aarne–Thompson–Uther Index).
Sasa
2025-01-18 13:04:37 +0000 UTCI think this is an outstanding episode, I'm amazed by Destiny's ability to put together examples of these behaviours on the fly like that.
Leon White
2025-01-18 12:50:56 +0000 UTCMaybe a bit strong, but I know where you’re coming from. That said for me it’s mostly his engagement style rather than his substance. When people get all loud and talk over each other it switches me off completely!
CrystalJade
2025-01-18 12:45:30 +0000 UTCYup
Christopher Kavanagh
2025-01-18 11:48:41 +0000 UTCDisclaimer - I really don’t like Destiny and find him disgusting. I found the video fun to listen to and you guys have a good dynamic, however I found most of the criticisms Destiny had are exactly the sort of behaviors he displays
Tom Wheatley
2025-01-18 11:23:24 +0000 UTCHah, good job using the format to sneak in a bit of Dr K criticism.
332
2025-01-18 11:15:32 +0000 UTCPlease don't let Mr Borelli display his moronism
Ando
2025-01-18 11:14:38 +0000 UTCIs there going to be a video release?
Sam Mountjoy
2025-01-18 11:04:01 +0000 UTCLooking forward to it. Always happy when a long episode coincides with a long run.
Robert Andrews
2025-01-18 10:09:46 +0000 UTCGreat episode! Totally on point about the discourse in the online gurusphere. Halfway through and I’m already motivated to comment. I pray therefore I think therefore I am. Descartes just missed a bit. He didn’t consider this in his system of coordinates either. Therefore all mathematics is also prayer. If only Descartes had written some rules for life he might have reached a Petersonian level of insight. Not that Descartes thinking enabled the enlightenment or anything by enabling separation between the church and science. Is Peterson attempting a reverse enlightenment? Just asking questions!
CrystalJade
2025-01-18 09:52:25 +0000 UTCBedtime for me but on my list for tomorrow. Thanks for the early upload Chris.
Kyle
2025-01-18 09:16:52 +0000 UTCThis sounds great!
well-good-evans
2025-01-18 08:57:13 +0000 UTCWas looking forward to this!
Terrifying Tom
2025-01-18 08:50:23 +0000 UTCThis episode immediately showed up on the personal RSS podcast feed, no delay this time :)
Andre Prepens
2025-01-18 08:45:22 +0000 UTC
