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Decoding The Gurus
Decoding The Gurus

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Supplementary Material 20: Stolen Valor, Based Murder, and Eric Weinstein's Phonecall Problem

In this end-of-year supplementary material, we unleash the hounds of war, battle through the discourse, and emerge alive but bloody and battered on the other side. Enlist now and join the fight.

Supplementary Material 20

00:00 Introduction and Ethnographic Insights

01:38 Matt's Observations from Washington DC

05:50 Smithsonian Museums and Star Wars Memorabilia

07:48 Lego Creations and Gacha Collectibles

12:13 Social Media and Blue Sky 'Culture'

13:29 Matt's Contribution: Eric Weinstein's UFO Speculations

21:21 Graham Linehan, Andrew Doyle, Jordan Peterson & Recognising Past Errors

23:18 Jordan Peterson's Reflections on Vaccination

28:59 Huberman's Upcoming Vaccine Series

30:52 Taylor Lorenz and Stochastic Terrorism

32:31 The Hypocrisy of Glorifying Violence

36:29 The Problem with Political Violence

43:48 Tim Kennedy's Exaggerated Military Stories

55:09 Tim Kennedy's Response to Criticism

01:07:37 Prebunking Criticisms

01:17:20 Shane Smith at Vice is NOT A CONSPIRACY GUY

01:21:27 Final Thoughts on Populism and Vibes-Based Reasoning

01:25:18 Outro

Supplementary Material 20: Stolen Valor, Based Murder, and Eric Weinstein's Phonecall Problem Supplementary Material 20: Stolen Valor, Based Murder, and Eric Weinstein's Phonecall Problem

Comments

It very much is a class issue. Why do you think the mainstream media and corporate were freaking out? It’s scary to them when people on the right and left unite and that’s what Luigi did. I’m really surprised you don’t get that.

Sarah S

When they were mentioning "the interviewer from the left wing vice" whilst pointing out his right-wingish vaccine views I was thinking - "you ought to see how the OTHER owner of Vice turned out!"

Fugazi

Yeah, I'm lucky my employer pays for mine, it's a hell of a lot of money to pay as an individual. They need to come up with some sort of arrangement for the self employed where they can group a lot of them into some giant risk pool and make the price more affordable.

Ad Tastic

Yeah I can see that. My family are originally from the US and they have mixed feelings. One recently had to spend $1000 just to get a script renewed wjile visiting family. Another had what they consider to be a botched cancer surgery in Australia. Basically the doctor erred on the side of caution and did way more than was necessary. They are very angry about it and think we should be able to sue doctors here like in the US. Personally, I have fairly unstable contractor work and if I was in the US would be forking out a large portion of my income on health insurance or just risking it and going without. I feel like it should be possible to improve either system without discarding all the good parts.

Ema Corro

Its true and it's scary. But I'm just asking for people to consider the other side of the coin. If this person had a debilitating but not life threatening injury in Australia or the UK. And had to take a year off work because they couldn't get a surgery apt for 12 months. How far in the hole are they then? For me personally, I could handle a 68K debt. I couldn't handle being unable to work for 12 months. That would cost me a lot more than 68K. I think people see a headline bill and it freaks them out, but they don't consider the inconvenience, the cost, the pain of being on a waiting list until it actually happens to them.

Ad Tastic

I was listening to someone talking about their $68000 medical bill (covered by insurance) for a minor injury. They pointed out how if it happened when they were younger it would have put them into lifelong debt and prevented them ever becoming middle class. It hadnt ocurred to me before, but that uninsured 10% is not static. It includes a lot of people between jobs etc at any given point. Which meams it actually affects a lot for than 10% of the population over their lifetimes.

Ema Corro

Yeah maybe I didn’t understand your point then.

Tobias nilsson

Who wouldn’t!?

Kevin Nyberg

GOD DAMMIT MATT, SHANE OWNS VICE!

oh shizzzzz

Lawyers have pointed out that because a terrorism charge was laid against Mangione this very issue is going to be a key part of the litigation. I’m a Canadian and I think it’s hard for people with universal healthcare to truly appreciate how predatory the American healthcare industry is. I once saw a bill for a birth where the family was charged $40 for skin to skin. It’s absolutely disgusting.

Emily

Donald Trump, Rupert Murdoch, stop giving great examples!

David Noble

Question: If PIERS MORGAN were to die... do you think you would feel... maybe just the slightest little bit of joy?

David Noble

Loving Eric's description of government assembling a "crack team" to confront the "urgent issue" that is indistinguishable from a generic movie plot. He just wants to be a real-life Jeff Goldblum in Independence Day.

Fake Chuck

I think Destiny's response to Sean Smith was actually not that good. The issue is that he immediately jumps into trying to rebut what he thinks Smith said, but what Smith actually said was largely incoherent. As a result Destiny's response is kind of generic and might come off as evasive to the ignorant or vaccine skeptical. Would have been more effective asking a follow-up question like "Are you saying that Fauci recently went before the Senate and talked about COVID vaccines causing heart attacks or there being an unexplained increase in heart attacks?"

Trees

Mike > Yeah, could be but just saying I had to use the NHS a bunch, including for the birth of my son and it did not make me yearn for private health care.

Christopher Kavanagh

Easy to blame the Tories. Labour won't improve it significantly. Entire system needs reform but too difficult politically. Healthcare inflation, aging population. Govt doesn't have the money.

Ad Tastic

But Chris, wasn't that before this recent, particularly acute period of service lacking? That said, I think people in England are not arguing to dismantle the thing and go private. The Tories are to blame as I understand. I live in Denmark and am very happy with the system. Long live National health care!

Mike

I've often wondered about this criticism. Isn't it the case that you only see "skeets" from people you follow on BlueSky? If one is seeing lots of finger-wagging, then one must be following lots of finger-waggers. Maybe stop following them?

Brink

As someone who has been to neither city, I strongly agree.

Password1234!

And he still doesn't have time to do the paperwork because he's serving, but finds time to podcast.

Trees

Fair enough. I tend to think context, past behavior, likelihood of violence are very much relevant in a conversation like this. The fact that it's even plausible that I love the podcast is stunning.

Kelley

I don’t consider you guys corporate media, I was referring to billionaire owned outlets like Fox News, New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, etc. And when I say they are baffled, it’s performative bafflement. Support for Mangione isn’t really the best way to describe what I’m talking about when I say it’s a bipartisan class issue, so let me rephrase. Dissatisfaction with our health system is a class issue and it crosses political divides. There’s plenty of Gallup polling on that. I also want to make clear that the classes I’m talking about are billionaires vs everyone else. Whether or not people support the killer is irrelevant, and focusing on that aspect of this is an attempt (in my opinion) by those billionaires to steer the conversation and the attention away from them and their hoards of wealth and keep us serfs quibbling amongst ourselves about culture war bullshit.

Kelley

Respectfully, I disagree with the points made about the reaction to Mangione. Every society makes choices about what behaviours are considered antisocial. I think that Americans across the political spectrum are starting to feel that the health insurance industry functions in a way that’s antisocial. For example, under Thompson’s leadership UHC implemented an AI system that denies ~50% of claims approved by doctors. Hannah Arendt wrote of “desk murders”: people who facilitate death and/or violence against innocents from administrative positions. The general population has watched loved ones suffer (and die) after being denied healthcare coverage despite paying into an insurance plan. People have to haggle with insurance companies while battling illness and disability. It might not radicalize them to the degree where they assassinate an insurance CEO, but it’s enough for a lot of them to be indifferent to Thompson’s death or supportive of Mangione. The grim reality is that there are people who would still be alive if their healthcare hadn’t been denied. State-based systems of accountability are designed to prevent violence by creating a peaceful path for justice. These systems have let Americans down by allowing insurance companies waste precious time denying claims or deferring acceptance. There’s also a price tag on litigation making it inaccessible to most people with medical bills.

Emily

Really appreciating this whole discussion. All I have to add is that I didn’t see anyone talk about American hesitancy to see healthcare providers, due to fears of unexpected bills months down the line. I don’t have any statistical evidence off hand of how true this is, only anecdotal, but I can say even with insurance I have no idea what/if my procedure will be covered. For instance I will likely have to get an MRI in the spring, have no idea how much it will cost me, and if it weren’t for the fact that I have a safety net due to a supporting family I likely would put it off. I agree the healthcare is excellent, and people do make use of it, but there is a hesitancy to go to the doctor that is culturally embedded. This likely contributes to some of our lower life experiences.

Steelyphil

I grew up using the NHS and have few complaints.

Christopher Kavanagh

I haven’t noticed a ‘good tone’ being much of a concern.

Christopher Kavanagh

Yes, we are saying when you endorse violence and do things like post details of other CEOs on social media immediately after one has been executed and display giddy excitement you are encouraging stochastic terrorism. Taylor Lorenz and many others have explained in great detail how this applies, read any article on the topic and consider the dynamics they describe. Whether you think the targets are more or less deserving of the violence because of their complicity with exploitative capitalist industries is irrelevant.

Christopher Kavanagh

I’m not baffled by the support at all. It’s absolutely predictable. I also don’t think it’s a class issue. Indeed, I’d anticipate that the highest rate of support would be amongst relatively wealthy, highly educated young people.

Christopher Kavanagh

I mean uk is like number 2 after the USA in being most fucked up rich country. So I think that’s picking between the plague and tuberculosis.

Tobias nilsson

Weird how you almost make bluesky sound worse than Twitter because it try to keep a good tone hahaha

Tobias nilsson

Next time you come out to DC I will give you my spiel on why you should be a Bayesian if you work on item response theory

Josh Chang

Let me get this straight: you know EVERY random despicable person on the interwebs...but you don't know "this Shane Smith guy"? How is this possible????

Chomagerider

Are the hosts honestly calling what Taylor Lorenz did “stochastic terrorism”? On the same level as what Tucker Carlson does to immigrants or trans people? In some misguided centrist quest, you’ve essentially said that CEOs (and really we’re talking fortune 100 CEOs), people making tens of millions of dollars every year of the backs of exploited workers and denied claims, those people are a group that could experience violence as a result of stochastic terrorism. You can’t look a situation like this and ignore the massive power imbalance. “Taylor said the same thing Tucker said, so that’s the same thing” no, it’s really not. When libs of tiktok tweets about some trans teacher, that teacher gets fired, or they get death threats. Hospitals get bomb threats because they’re accused of mutilating children. I guarantee you CEOs are not in danger because of Taylor.

Kelley

Speaking of lab leak, Shi from Wuhan virology institute published recently in Nature. Again, not a lab leak. On the latest TWiV, the hosts had a brief giggle at the mention of Bret W. Not worth looking up but worth a giggle 😆

Kgar

You are out of your mind if you think the right needs an excuse to do anything.

Kelley

People are upset at health insurance not healthcare. I don’t think you understand just how bad health insurance is.

Kelley

Re: the convo about American health insurance- you guys are so so off base here. You’re conflating healthcare and health insurance. Americans are angry at health insurance, not healthcare. And it’s absolutely not just the “activist left” that aren’t sorry the ceo died, this is one of the few things that crosses political boundaries. The real divide here is the class divide, which is why you see corporate media utterly baffled by the support Mangione is getting. I don’t think you understand how bad health insurance is in this country.

Kelley

That "only 10%" is as big as the entire population of Australia.

Ema Corro

Washington DC is famously like Paris!

Frank Lantz

That depends on a lot of things. I'm not a diabetic but my experience of the NHS both as an employee and as a patient was really bad. Inconvenient and bureaucratic as a patient. Poorly paid with dated tech as an employee. I wouldn't recommend that system to any country and nobody has copied it. But honestly the problem with the UK is the NHS is part of the national identity and any attempt to reform it, to make it more like other European country, or like Australia or Canada, is political suicide. People just won't accept it, and why would they? They constantly get told how great it is and they got nothing else to compare it too.

Ad Tastic

Id rather suffer from diabetes in the UK.

TheKraken

The audacity of Tim Kennedy claiming he didn’t get his purple heart because he’s bad a paperwork. Absurd. Especially given he wrote an entire book

Par

Sorry I missed you in DC! That’s where I’m from!

Kimberly Beer

I haven't found bluesky to be "scoldy" or "fingerwaggy" , but one big disadvantage it has is that when Maga starts eating itself, it doesn't happen on bluesky

Stephen McGlinchey

Thanks for your perspective. I have mostly had positive experiences with American healthcare, but I have insurance through my employer. I’m glad you are enjoying living here.

Linda Sears

My memory is that people were disappointed with the final episode of Seinfeld because it was not funny. But I could be wrong.

Jacqueline Stolz

Sorry, I can bore people to death on this subject. Nobody likes US healthcare and now CEOs are getting shot dead in the street. I guess I feel compelled to stick up for it.

Ad Tastic

Fair enough, given your background you appear to know a lot more than me on this! I don’t know a lot — it was really a tangential point in our discussion, that even *if* one felt very strongly about some policy like healthcare, then political violence & murder is not the answer, except under extremely dire circumstances and where there was absolutely no other option. Like, French resistance under Nazi occupation level dire.

Guruspod 2

Let us know if you are ever in Boston!

DJM

I could talk all day about this because I'm an Aussie healthcare worker that spent many years working for the NHS in the UK and the last 10 here in the US. My issue is this idea of "health outcomes". Obviously it's influenced by access to healthcare but its also too broad. Specifically I work in oncology and the cure rates for cancer in America are the best in the world. Some of that is because they develop the latest cutting edge technology and pharmaceuticals and your hospital better offer those treatments or else the patient is going down the road to the one that does. Some of that is because the profit motive incentivises earlier screening and more of it. Some of it is because the wait times are less because there's more facilities because there's more money floating around the system. That all costs money. A lot of money. As does the nose bleeding malpractice insurance premiums due to the massively inflated legal risk. Now Australia might look at all that as marginal gain and not worth the investment. But that's not really much comfort if youre the guy in the margin. Let's not forget, Australia would also still be in lockdown if American Big Pharma didn't have the muscle to mass produce COVID vaccines. So it's complicated to say the least. But yeah, they should definitely do something more about the people they don't cover. Especially if they don't want a Bernie Sanders figure coming in and sorting it out for them. Its really inexcusable. Anyway, glad you're having a good time in America, I love living here.

Ad Tastic

People want to inflate that IF like it's half the country when really it's only 10% of Americans that don't have insurance. Obviously individuals have their own experiences in any system. I could tell you of my friends wife that needed 10 cycles of IVF and his insurance picked up the entire tab whereas in the UK he would have had to pay his own way after 1 cycle. My father who was told he would have to wait 2 years for surgery on a debilitating back injury in Australia. I personally work in radiation oncology and I can tell you from personal experience we get patients into treatment in half the time I used to in the UK. But what I can guarantee you is whatever system you are in your healthcare will be rationed. Whether it's an insurance company or the Govt. American healthcare is generally rationed less and that's part of the reason it is more expensive. Its not all Big Pharma and shady CEOs rorting the public. Just to say the passion that healthcare raises doesn't match the reality. American healthcare needs major reform here and there but it's not as bad as people want to make out.

Ad Tastic

Love it. I support this!

Guruspod 2

It’s a bit like how people were disappointed with the final ep of Seinfeld… Yes, they’re not good people, why did you think they were!?

Guruspod 2

Yeah I don’t disagree Ad Tastic but Australia has all the same lifestyle problems. Our obesity rate is higher. We spend about 1/2 per capita on health as the USA, but average health outcomes are better, so the main point of difference appears to be various kinds of inequity, and how that spend is distributed I guess. But America is also far more awesome in most other ways, so there’s that ;)

Guruspod 2

I like it, particularly the bit where you agree with me!

Guruspod 2

Thank you Linda!

Guruspod 2

Thanks Julie!

Guruspod 2

Just a heads up I’m in NYC and up for a meet-up if anyone’s about. Chris will post a dedicated thread IF he can remember

Guruspod 2

The care is excellent IF you can access it. That means both if you can pay and if there are practitioners available. Wait times are beginning to be a serious issue as the provider shortage accelerates. (In my last city it was about 8 months to get an appointment with a GI specialist for example, unless you had the ability to drive a few hours).

KT

But yes was that one!

Christopher Kavanagh

In show notes on main feed

Christopher Kavanagh

This was a nice distraction from the pain of the last week. Thank you Chris and Matt.

Julie

This helped me get through house cleaning for guests. Eric’s admonitions about how experts should be given resources and transport was pure guru gold. Thanks for all you do, Matt and Chris.

Linda Sears

It appears to maybe be "The Antihero Podcast"?

Maytree

I'm listening to the Tim Kennedy portion and I'm not sure anybody mentions what the podcast is that is criticizing Tim Kennedy.

Maytree

RE: the Vice interview segment Chris and Matt didn't seem to be aware that Shane Smith wasn't just a journalist at Vice. In fact, he was one of its cofounders (along with Gavin McInnes, who later went on to found the neofascist Proud Boys). I agree with Matt that the important spectrum here is not the right/left one but the establishment/anti-establishment one. With the recent rise of populism across the world, this spectrum is increasingly the one that matters, especially if you're trying to understand people's motivations. Just look at the merger of the Trump and RFK Jr spheres.

Brink

American medical care is actually very good. World leading in most cases. Better than Australia and the UK IMHO. Yes it's expensive and they don't cover everybody, and that's a problem. But America's poor life expectancy outcomes are mostly because they have high levels of obesity, they eat bad food, they get less exercise, the work longer hours, they take shorter vacations, and they have an inclination to go around shooting each other quite a lot.

Ad Tastic

Americans hate private health insurance because they never had to use the NHS

Ad Tastic

Yarvin is obvs v correct though. We’re really provincial now. I just wish I was there “back int’ day” of medieval non provincial 14th century England. Public beheadings/torture/short life expectancy/high rates of child mortality etc.

Chris Clark

“It reminds me of Robin Hood in the 14th century” yea but we’re not in the 14th century you bellend. Although I’m sure Yarvin wishes we were.

Chris Clark

Taylor Lorenz- what an airhead. Celebrating politically meaningless violence that will do nothing to further the cause of healthcare for all. It just gives the right more of an excuse to demonise advocates of socialised healthcare. Utterly vacuous foghorn of a nothjngburger “journalist”. 0/10. Depressing.

Chris Clark

I once took a call from a member of the public who suggested we drop paper towels out the back of the C-130's in a response to an active oil spill. This is what happens when you give members of the public like Eric a chance to contribute.

Jack

The mention of “Watchers on the Wall” reminded me that there were still people who thought Daenerys was the hero despite her being hinted at and then outright shown as being an unstable psychopath since episode 1. 🤣

Ryan Booker

The time and energy Eric and Brett must put into devising strategies via these tweets and others to get into the new close knit circle is probably mind-boggling given Brett is on Elon’s radar having been blocked and possibly knows Eric’s relation to Brett. That latest one to Vivek ending with “Dance with me” was a new level of cringe

Milquetoast Ramen

Indeed, and that’s not good.

Christopher Kavanagh

Chris, off topic, and sorry if you addressed this and I missed it, but any thoughts about Kneecap?

Randy

Not sure if either of you knew, but the reason the buildings are "mid rise" is because no building is allowed to be built taller than the Washington moment. fun fact!

August

the right have been murdering abortion providers for almost 50 years

peta austen


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