Supplementary Material 20: Stolen Valor, Based Murder, and Eric Weinstein's Phonecall Problem
Added 2024-12-27 04:25:50 +0000 UTCIn this end-of-year supplementary material, we unleash the hounds of war, battle through the discourse, and emerge alive but bloody and battered on the other side. Enlist now and join the fight.
Supplementary Material 20
00:00 Introduction and Ethnographic Insights
01:38 Matt's Observations from Washington DC
05:50 Smithsonian Museums and Star Wars Memorabilia
07:48 Lego Creations and Gacha Collectibles
12:13 Social Media and Blue Sky 'Culture'
13:29 Matt's Contribution: Eric Weinstein's UFO Speculations
21:21 Graham Linehan, Andrew Doyle, Jordan Peterson & Recognising Past Errors
23:18 Jordan Peterson's Reflections on Vaccination
28:59 Huberman's Upcoming Vaccine Series
30:52 Taylor Lorenz and Stochastic Terrorism
32:31 The Hypocrisy of Glorifying Violence
36:29 The Problem with Political Violence
43:48 Tim Kennedy's Exaggerated Military Stories
55:09 Tim Kennedy's Response to Criticism
01:07:37 Prebunking Criticisms
01:17:20 Shane Smith at Vice is NOT A CONSPIRACY GUY
01:21:27 Final Thoughts on Populism and Vibes-Based Reasoning
01:25:18 Outro
Comments
It very much is a class issue. Why do you think the mainstream media and corporate were freaking out? It’s scary to them when people on the right and left unite and that’s what Luigi did. I’m really surprised you don’t get that.
Sarah S
2025-01-24 21:08:26 +0000 UTCWhen they were mentioning "the interviewer from the left wing vice" whilst pointing out his right-wingish vaccine views I was thinking - "you ought to see how the OTHER owner of Vice turned out!"
Fugazi
2025-01-08 12:12:15 +0000 UTCYeah, I'm lucky my employer pays for mine, it's a hell of a lot of money to pay as an individual. They need to come up with some sort of arrangement for the self employed where they can group a lot of them into some giant risk pool and make the price more affordable.
Ad Tastic
2025-01-08 06:41:13 +0000 UTCYeah I can see that. My family are originally from the US and they have mixed feelings. One recently had to spend $1000 just to get a script renewed wjile visiting family. Another had what they consider to be a botched cancer surgery in Australia. Basically the doctor erred on the side of caution and did way more than was necessary. They are very angry about it and think we should be able to sue doctors here like in the US. Personally, I have fairly unstable contractor work and if I was in the US would be forking out a large portion of my income on health insurance or just risking it and going without. I feel like it should be possible to improve either system without discarding all the good parts.
Ema Corro
2025-01-08 03:45:38 +0000 UTCIts true and it's scary. But I'm just asking for people to consider the other side of the coin. If this person had a debilitating but not life threatening injury in Australia or the UK. And had to take a year off work because they couldn't get a surgery apt for 12 months. How far in the hole are they then? For me personally, I could handle a 68K debt. I couldn't handle being unable to work for 12 months. That would cost me a lot more than 68K. I think people see a headline bill and it freaks them out, but they don't consider the inconvenience, the cost, the pain of being on a waiting list until it actually happens to them.
Ad Tastic
2025-01-07 14:44:08 +0000 UTCI was listening to someone talking about their $68000 medical bill (covered by insurance) for a minor injury. They pointed out how if it happened when they were younger it would have put them into lifelong debt and prevented them ever becoming middle class. It hadnt ocurred to me before, but that uninsured 10% is not static. It includes a lot of people between jobs etc at any given point. Which meams it actually affects a lot for than 10% of the population over their lifetimes.
Ema Corro
2025-01-07 08:38:57 +0000 UTCYeah maybe I didn’t understand your point then.
Tobias nilsson
2025-01-02 16:34:00 +0000 UTCWho wouldn’t!?
Kevin Nyberg
2025-01-01 22:27:17 +0000 UTCGOD DAMMIT MATT, SHANE OWNS VICE!
oh shizzzzz
2025-01-01 00:47:05 +0000 UTCLawyers have pointed out that because a terrorism charge was laid against Mangione this very issue is going to be a key part of the litigation. I’m a Canadian and I think it’s hard for people with universal healthcare to truly appreciate how predatory the American healthcare industry is. I once saw a bill for a birth where the family was charged $40 for skin to skin. It’s absolutely disgusting.
Emily
2024-12-31 20:25:55 +0000 UTCDonald Trump, Rupert Murdoch, stop giving great examples!
David Noble
2024-12-31 19:26:21 +0000 UTCQuestion: If PIERS MORGAN were to die... do you think you would feel... maybe just the slightest little bit of joy?
David Noble
2024-12-31 19:22:32 +0000 UTCLoving Eric's description of government assembling a "crack team" to confront the "urgent issue" that is indistinguishable from a generic movie plot. He just wants to be a real-life Jeff Goldblum in Independence Day.
Fake Chuck
2024-12-31 15:29:47 +0000 UTCI think Destiny's response to Sean Smith was actually not that good. The issue is that he immediately jumps into trying to rebut what he thinks Smith said, but what Smith actually said was largely incoherent. As a result Destiny's response is kind of generic and might come off as evasive to the ignorant or vaccine skeptical. Would have been more effective asking a follow-up question like "Are you saying that Fauci recently went before the Senate and talked about COVID vaccines causing heart attacks or there being an unexplained increase in heart attacks?"
Trees
2024-12-30 23:59:34 +0000 UTCMike > Yeah, could be but just saying I had to use the NHS a bunch, including for the birth of my son and it did not make me yearn for private health care.
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-12-30 23:53:06 +0000 UTCEasy to blame the Tories. Labour won't improve it significantly. Entire system needs reform but too difficult politically. Healthcare inflation, aging population. Govt doesn't have the money.
Ad Tastic
2024-12-30 15:21:57 +0000 UTCBut Chris, wasn't that before this recent, particularly acute period of service lacking? That said, I think people in England are not arguing to dismantle the thing and go private. The Tories are to blame as I understand. I live in Denmark and am very happy with the system. Long live National health care!
Mike
2024-12-30 15:15:05 +0000 UTCI've often wondered about this criticism. Isn't it the case that you only see "skeets" from people you follow on BlueSky? If one is seeing lots of finger-wagging, then one must be following lots of finger-waggers. Maybe stop following them?
Brink
2024-12-30 06:26:26 +0000 UTCAs someone who has been to neither city, I strongly agree.
Password1234!
2024-12-30 04:45:01 +0000 UTCAnd he still doesn't have time to do the paperwork because he's serving, but finds time to podcast.
Trees
2024-12-30 04:04:53 +0000 UTCFair enough. I tend to think context, past behavior, likelihood of violence are very much relevant in a conversation like this. The fact that it's even plausible that I love the podcast is stunning.
Kelley
2024-12-30 00:27:48 +0000 UTCI don’t consider you guys corporate media, I was referring to billionaire owned outlets like Fox News, New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, etc. And when I say they are baffled, it’s performative bafflement. Support for Mangione isn’t really the best way to describe what I’m talking about when I say it’s a bipartisan class issue, so let me rephrase. Dissatisfaction with our health system is a class issue and it crosses political divides. There’s plenty of Gallup polling on that. I also want to make clear that the classes I’m talking about are billionaires vs everyone else. Whether or not people support the killer is irrelevant, and focusing on that aspect of this is an attempt (in my opinion) by those billionaires to steer the conversation and the attention away from them and their hoards of wealth and keep us serfs quibbling amongst ourselves about culture war bullshit.
Kelley
2024-12-30 00:14:47 +0000 UTCRespectfully, I disagree with the points made about the reaction to Mangione. Every society makes choices about what behaviours are considered antisocial. I think that Americans across the political spectrum are starting to feel that the health insurance industry functions in a way that’s antisocial. For example, under Thompson’s leadership UHC implemented an AI system that denies ~50% of claims approved by doctors. Hannah Arendt wrote of “desk murders”: people who facilitate death and/or violence against innocents from administrative positions. The general population has watched loved ones suffer (and die) after being denied healthcare coverage despite paying into an insurance plan. People have to haggle with insurance companies while battling illness and disability. It might not radicalize them to the degree where they assassinate an insurance CEO, but it’s enough for a lot of them to be indifferent to Thompson’s death or supportive of Mangione. The grim reality is that there are people who would still be alive if their healthcare hadn’t been denied. State-based systems of accountability are designed to prevent violence by creating a peaceful path for justice. These systems have let Americans down by allowing insurance companies waste precious time denying claims or deferring acceptance. There’s also a price tag on litigation making it inaccessible to most people with medical bills.
Emily
2024-12-30 00:00:48 +0000 UTCReally appreciating this whole discussion. All I have to add is that I didn’t see anyone talk about American hesitancy to see healthcare providers, due to fears of unexpected bills months down the line. I don’t have any statistical evidence off hand of how true this is, only anecdotal, but I can say even with insurance I have no idea what/if my procedure will be covered. For instance I will likely have to get an MRI in the spring, have no idea how much it will cost me, and if it weren’t for the fact that I have a safety net due to a supporting family I likely would put it off. I agree the healthcare is excellent, and people do make use of it, but there is a hesitancy to go to the doctor that is culturally embedded. This likely contributes to some of our lower life experiences.
Steelyphil
2024-12-29 22:42:29 +0000 UTCI grew up using the NHS and have few complaints.
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-12-29 20:49:00 +0000 UTCI haven’t noticed a ‘good tone’ being much of a concern.
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-12-29 20:47:49 +0000 UTCYes, we are saying when you endorse violence and do things like post details of other CEOs on social media immediately after one has been executed and display giddy excitement you are encouraging stochastic terrorism. Taylor Lorenz and many others have explained in great detail how this applies, read any article on the topic and consider the dynamics they describe. Whether you think the targets are more or less deserving of the violence because of their complicity with exploitative capitalist industries is irrelevant.
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-12-29 20:47:07 +0000 UTCI’m not baffled by the support at all. It’s absolutely predictable. I also don’t think it’s a class issue. Indeed, I’d anticipate that the highest rate of support would be amongst relatively wealthy, highly educated young people.
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-12-29 20:42:33 +0000 UTCI mean uk is like number 2 after the USA in being most fucked up rich country. So I think that’s picking between the plague and tuberculosis.
Tobias nilsson
2024-12-29 19:12:20 +0000 UTCWeird how you almost make bluesky sound worse than Twitter because it try to keep a good tone hahaha
Tobias nilsson
2024-12-29 19:05:10 +0000 UTCNext time you come out to DC I will give you my spiel on why you should be a Bayesian if you work on item response theory
Josh Chang
2024-12-29 14:35:27 +0000 UTCLet me get this straight: you know EVERY random despicable person on the interwebs...but you don't know "this Shane Smith guy"? How is this possible????
Chomagerider
2024-12-29 13:22:23 +0000 UTCAre the hosts honestly calling what Taylor Lorenz did “stochastic terrorism”? On the same level as what Tucker Carlson does to immigrants or trans people? In some misguided centrist quest, you’ve essentially said that CEOs (and really we’re talking fortune 100 CEOs), people making tens of millions of dollars every year of the backs of exploited workers and denied claims, those people are a group that could experience violence as a result of stochastic terrorism. You can’t look a situation like this and ignore the massive power imbalance. “Taylor said the same thing Tucker said, so that’s the same thing” no, it’s really not. When libs of tiktok tweets about some trans teacher, that teacher gets fired, or they get death threats. Hospitals get bomb threats because they’re accused of mutilating children. I guarantee you CEOs are not in danger because of Taylor.
Kelley
2024-12-29 13:04:06 +0000 UTCSpeaking of lab leak, Shi from Wuhan virology institute published recently in Nature. Again, not a lab leak. On the latest TWiV, the hosts had a brief giggle at the mention of Bret W. Not worth looking up but worth a giggle 😆
Kgar
2024-12-29 12:59:48 +0000 UTCYou are out of your mind if you think the right needs an excuse to do anything.
Kelley
2024-12-29 12:48:27 +0000 UTCPeople are upset at health insurance not healthcare. I don’t think you understand just how bad health insurance is.
Kelley
2024-12-29 12:45:06 +0000 UTCRe: the convo about American health insurance- you guys are so so off base here. You’re conflating healthcare and health insurance. Americans are angry at health insurance, not healthcare. And it’s absolutely not just the “activist left” that aren’t sorry the ceo died, this is one of the few things that crosses political boundaries. The real divide here is the class divide, which is why you see corporate media utterly baffled by the support Mangione is getting. I don’t think you understand how bad health insurance is in this country.
Kelley
2024-12-29 12:42:49 +0000 UTCThat "only 10%" is as big as the entire population of Australia.
Ema Corro
2024-12-29 06:44:19 +0000 UTCWashington DC is famously like Paris!
Frank Lantz
2024-12-29 05:21:28 +0000 UTCThat depends on a lot of things. I'm not a diabetic but my experience of the NHS both as an employee and as a patient was really bad. Inconvenient and bureaucratic as a patient. Poorly paid with dated tech as an employee. I wouldn't recommend that system to any country and nobody has copied it. But honestly the problem with the UK is the NHS is part of the national identity and any attempt to reform it, to make it more like other European country, or like Australia or Canada, is political suicide. People just won't accept it, and why would they? They constantly get told how great it is and they got nothing else to compare it too.
Ad Tastic
2024-12-28 22:57:51 +0000 UTCId rather suffer from diabetes in the UK.
TheKraken
2024-12-28 22:22:33 +0000 UTCThe audacity of Tim Kennedy claiming he didn’t get his purple heart because he’s bad a paperwork. Absurd. Especially given he wrote an entire book
Par
2024-12-28 21:19:30 +0000 UTCSorry I missed you in DC! That’s where I’m from!
Kimberly Beer
2024-12-28 16:17:01 +0000 UTCI haven't found bluesky to be "scoldy" or "fingerwaggy" , but one big disadvantage it has is that when Maga starts eating itself, it doesn't happen on bluesky
Stephen McGlinchey
2024-12-28 14:07:22 +0000 UTCThanks for your perspective. I have mostly had positive experiences with American healthcare, but I have insurance through my employer. I’m glad you are enjoying living here.
Linda Sears
2024-12-28 14:06:34 +0000 UTCMy memory is that people were disappointed with the final episode of Seinfeld because it was not funny. But I could be wrong.
Jacqueline Stolz
2024-12-28 07:39:32 +0000 UTCSorry, I can bore people to death on this subject. Nobody likes US healthcare and now CEOs are getting shot dead in the street. I guess I feel compelled to stick up for it.
Ad Tastic
2024-12-28 06:42:49 +0000 UTCFair enough, given your background you appear to know a lot more than me on this! I don’t know a lot — it was really a tangential point in our discussion, that even *if* one felt very strongly about some policy like healthcare, then political violence & murder is not the answer, except under extremely dire circumstances and where there was absolutely no other option. Like, French resistance under Nazi occupation level dire.
Guruspod 2
2024-12-28 03:48:27 +0000 UTCLet us know if you are ever in Boston!
DJM
2024-12-28 02:21:01 +0000 UTCI could talk all day about this because I'm an Aussie healthcare worker that spent many years working for the NHS in the UK and the last 10 here in the US. My issue is this idea of "health outcomes". Obviously it's influenced by access to healthcare but its also too broad. Specifically I work in oncology and the cure rates for cancer in America are the best in the world. Some of that is because they develop the latest cutting edge technology and pharmaceuticals and your hospital better offer those treatments or else the patient is going down the road to the one that does. Some of that is because the profit motive incentivises earlier screening and more of it. Some of it is because the wait times are less because there's more facilities because there's more money floating around the system. That all costs money. A lot of money. As does the nose bleeding malpractice insurance premiums due to the massively inflated legal risk. Now Australia might look at all that as marginal gain and not worth the investment. But that's not really much comfort if youre the guy in the margin. Let's not forget, Australia would also still be in lockdown if American Big Pharma didn't have the muscle to mass produce COVID vaccines. So it's complicated to say the least. But yeah, they should definitely do something more about the people they don't cover. Especially if they don't want a Bernie Sanders figure coming in and sorting it out for them. Its really inexcusable. Anyway, glad you're having a good time in America, I love living here.
Ad Tastic
2024-12-28 01:00:51 +0000 UTCPeople want to inflate that IF like it's half the country when really it's only 10% of Americans that don't have insurance. Obviously individuals have their own experiences in any system. I could tell you of my friends wife that needed 10 cycles of IVF and his insurance picked up the entire tab whereas in the UK he would have had to pay his own way after 1 cycle. My father who was told he would have to wait 2 years for surgery on a debilitating back injury in Australia. I personally work in radiation oncology and I can tell you from personal experience we get patients into treatment in half the time I used to in the UK. But what I can guarantee you is whatever system you are in your healthcare will be rationed. Whether it's an insurance company or the Govt. American healthcare is generally rationed less and that's part of the reason it is more expensive. Its not all Big Pharma and shady CEOs rorting the public. Just to say the passion that healthcare raises doesn't match the reality. American healthcare needs major reform here and there but it's not as bad as people want to make out.
Ad Tastic
2024-12-27 23:44:06 +0000 UTCLove it. I support this!
Guruspod 2
2024-12-27 23:42:42 +0000 UTCIt’s a bit like how people were disappointed with the final ep of Seinfeld… Yes, they’re not good people, why did you think they were!?
Guruspod 2
2024-12-27 23:42:00 +0000 UTCYeah I don’t disagree Ad Tastic but Australia has all the same lifestyle problems. Our obesity rate is higher. We spend about 1/2 per capita on health as the USA, but average health outcomes are better, so the main point of difference appears to be various kinds of inequity, and how that spend is distributed I guess. But America is also far more awesome in most other ways, so there’s that ;)
Guruspod 2
2024-12-27 23:40:07 +0000 UTCI like it, particularly the bit where you agree with me!
Guruspod 2
2024-12-27 23:36:42 +0000 UTCThank you Linda!
Guruspod 2
2024-12-27 23:35:41 +0000 UTCThanks Julie!
Guruspod 2
2024-12-27 23:35:20 +0000 UTCJust a heads up I’m in NYC and up for a meet-up if anyone’s about. Chris will post a dedicated thread IF he can remember
Guruspod 2
2024-12-27 23:29:45 +0000 UTCThe care is excellent IF you can access it. That means both if you can pay and if there are practitioners available. Wait times are beginning to be a serious issue as the provider shortage accelerates. (In my last city it was about 8 months to get an appointment with a GI specialist for example, unless you had the ability to drive a few hours).
KT
2024-12-27 23:09:33 +0000 UTCBut yes was that one!
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-12-27 21:59:03 +0000 UTCIn show notes on main feed
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-12-27 21:58:44 +0000 UTCThis was a nice distraction from the pain of the last week. Thank you Chris and Matt.
Julie
2024-12-27 21:57:51 +0000 UTCThis helped me get through house cleaning for guests. Eric’s admonitions about how experts should be given resources and transport was pure guru gold. Thanks for all you do, Matt and Chris.
Linda Sears
2024-12-27 18:49:26 +0000 UTCIt appears to maybe be "The Antihero Podcast"?
Maytree
2024-12-27 16:15:16 +0000 UTCI'm listening to the Tim Kennedy portion and I'm not sure anybody mentions what the podcast is that is criticizing Tim Kennedy.
Maytree
2024-12-27 15:40:45 +0000 UTCRE: the Vice interview segment Chris and Matt didn't seem to be aware that Shane Smith wasn't just a journalist at Vice. In fact, he was one of its cofounders (along with Gavin McInnes, who later went on to found the neofascist Proud Boys). I agree with Matt that the important spectrum here is not the right/left one but the establishment/anti-establishment one. With the recent rise of populism across the world, this spectrum is increasingly the one that matters, especially if you're trying to understand people's motivations. Just look at the merger of the Trump and RFK Jr spheres.
Brink
2024-12-27 15:28:47 +0000 UTCAmerican medical care is actually very good. World leading in most cases. Better than Australia and the UK IMHO. Yes it's expensive and they don't cover everybody, and that's a problem. But America's poor life expectancy outcomes are mostly because they have high levels of obesity, they eat bad food, they get less exercise, the work longer hours, they take shorter vacations, and they have an inclination to go around shooting each other quite a lot.
Ad Tastic
2024-12-27 14:10:11 +0000 UTCAmericans hate private health insurance because they never had to use the NHS
Ad Tastic
2024-12-27 13:58:27 +0000 UTCYarvin is obvs v correct though. We’re really provincial now. I just wish I was there “back int’ day” of medieval non provincial 14th century England. Public beheadings/torture/short life expectancy/high rates of child mortality etc.
Chris Clark
2024-12-27 11:21:41 +0000 UTC“It reminds me of Robin Hood in the 14th century” yea but we’re not in the 14th century you bellend. Although I’m sure Yarvin wishes we were.
Chris Clark
2024-12-27 11:17:42 +0000 UTCTaylor Lorenz- what an airhead. Celebrating politically meaningless violence that will do nothing to further the cause of healthcare for all. It just gives the right more of an excuse to demonise advocates of socialised healthcare. Utterly vacuous foghorn of a nothjngburger “journalist”. 0/10. Depressing.
Chris Clark
2024-12-27 11:15:42 +0000 UTCI once took a call from a member of the public who suggested we drop paper towels out the back of the C-130's in a response to an active oil spill. This is what happens when you give members of the public like Eric a chance to contribute.
Jack
2024-12-27 11:06:25 +0000 UTCThe mention of “Watchers on the Wall” reminded me that there were still people who thought Daenerys was the hero despite her being hinted at and then outright shown as being an unstable psychopath since episode 1. 🤣
Ryan Booker
2024-12-27 09:51:54 +0000 UTCThe time and energy Eric and Brett must put into devising strategies via these tweets and others to get into the new close knit circle is probably mind-boggling given Brett is on Elon’s radar having been blocked and possibly knows Eric’s relation to Brett. That latest one to Vivek ending with “Dance with me” was a new level of cringe
Milquetoast Ramen
2024-12-27 08:03:24 +0000 UTCIndeed, and that’s not good.
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-12-27 06:11:41 +0000 UTCChris, off topic, and sorry if you addressed this and I missed it, but any thoughts about Kneecap?
Randy
2024-12-27 06:09:37 +0000 UTCNot sure if either of you knew, but the reason the buildings are "mid rise" is because no building is allowed to be built taller than the Washington moment. fun fact!
August
2024-12-27 06:09:01 +0000 UTCthe right have been murdering abortion providers for almost 50 years
peta austen
2024-12-27 05:36:51 +0000 UTC
