Daniel Dennett episode discussion thread
Added 2023-02-02 02:06:40 +0000 UTCHey everyone,
We finally got the Dennett episode down to size and should be appearing on the main feed shortly.
Quite a lot of content on the cutting room floor as Matt and I got into various arcane discussions about evolution and cultural memes, as such I hope some of the later discussions don't feel too disjointed. It did not feel right to inflict an almost 4hr episode on people.
Fair to say that we both liked Dennett more than other figures we've covered and don't find too much objectionable.
Good to have these kind of figures covered from time to time and a nice palette cleanser ahead of Bill Maher & Dave Rubin.
Feedback & comments welcome!
Comments
Nobody invented the hand axe? The next thing Dennett's going to claim is that nobody wrote the song "Love Take Me Down to the Streets"!
brianshmrian
2023-02-04 16:56:31 +0000 UTCProbably off topic for this discussion but at the beginning of the episode you guys were waxing about ai podcasting so I wanted to make sure you knew about Lexman. Here is a good sample of this artwork https://twitter.com/lexman_ai/status/1619968660730159104?s=20&t=HVjbrmUweA1TB5f_8O-6ZA
Dylan
2023-02-03 23:21:46 +0000 UTCUseful to have these contrast studies to throw the main characters (Peterson, Weinsteins, etc) into relief by contrast. While I am much more on the Stephen Jay Gould side of the "Great Meme Debate", I agree that whatever differences I have with Dennett's postions, they are on matters of substance. I think for a lot of toxic gurus there's a style/substance inversion - the style is all there to conjure up the illusion of substance and it takes cognitive effort (and some knowledge capital) to deconstruct that to see that, in fact, there's no "there" there. While Dennett is a skilled presenter, there's never the feeling that the substance of the argument isn't front and centre. So much for form. Possibly even more important is the content, or affect. Dennett's affect is generally positive, even optimistic or upbeat. There's no dark invocations of cosmic threats to our civilisation and way of life, no imputed sinister forces at work about to snuff out our freedom of thought or action, etc, etc. It really does bring home how much the content of the toxic gurus is above all about channelling resentment. There's a wonderful bit from Deleuze's "Pure Immance" on Nietzsche's dramatis personae that evokes this affect very poetically: "Spider (or Tarantula): It is the spirit of revenge or resentment. Its power of contagion is its venom. Its will is a will to punish and to judge. Its weapon is the thread, the thread of morality. It preaches equality (that everyone become like it!)"
Paul Bowman
2023-02-03 14:56:01 +0000 UTCIf Chris was a different flavour of anthropologist he may feel compelled to weigh in on that statement…
elcid
2023-02-03 11:56:01 +0000 UTCI don’t get why Dennett looks at Hand Axes and decides if you have many of them it must be for signalling to women. Surely the signal here is “keep away or I’ll smash you with an axe”. Just as some people have a large collection of guns or knives.
Graham Clarke
2023-02-03 09:19:08 +0000 UTCI concur
TheRealEricWeinstein
2023-02-03 04:42:18 +0000 UTCYes, I agree. Happy to have more discussion of some of the complex issues.
Jesta
2023-02-03 03:28:00 +0000 UTCGreat episode. It’s fun seeing Matt get so excited about evolution.
TheRealEricWeinstein
2023-02-03 02:25:58 +0000 UTCBill Maher & Dave Rubin?! Wow, I'm so sorry, but also, thank you. Excited to hear your thoughts on Dennett, who I think of as one of the better atheists, and should contrast with Maher, one of the shittier ones.
Rasterisk
2023-02-03 00:39:27 +0000 UTCGood grief, as if Prager U wasn’t bad enough, the Peterson clan will foist their ‘ideas’ on a loving audience. The plan to go one step beyond Austin U. Won’t Bari be upset? I give them credit for enhancing the grift; their audience will be online arguing that they’re credentialed! Smarter! More whatev! Joe will be able to get more people on to spread miseducation not just misinformation. Sheesh.
Tom McCool
2023-02-02 15:44:50 +0000 UTCAppreciate that but sometimes it is also that we don't want to inflict it on other people. It might not seem like it but we do care when we are being too speculative. Nonetheless, can indeed think about uploading the less edited versions in advance.
Christopher Kavanagh
2023-02-02 06:49:37 +0000 UTCYep, would be fine with a four-hour Patreon cut! ;-) I once read Darwin's Dangerous Idea, and I think Dennett comes across as being an even bigger champion of the idea of memes that even its creator, Dawkins. Would be interested to hear your thoughts on it.
Robert Andrews
2023-02-02 06:24:05 +0000 UTCDon't be shy about dropping those cut segments into this feed like breadcrumbs. The conversation between you two is why many of us are here, not the gurus themselves. Especially people like me who will never experience life within academia and are benefitting from the ways in which your backgrounds inform your takes on these ideas being bandied about. If nothing else, it's a window into a world we'll never be a part of, and it helps keep us sane to hear rational, fun people having discussions about something other than what's in our news feed.
JustTheWorstEver
2023-02-02 04:42:07 +0000 UTC
