Mini-Decoding of Peterson, Pageau, & Murray
Added 2022-09-23 23:46:22 +0000 UTCAdvance semi-edited audio of our mini decoding episode of the three great minds above. They are mostly discussion religion and metaphysical stuff. Enter at your own peril.
Comments
It’s lazy Christian apologetics. It seems terribly child-like to talk about whether stories in novels or the Bible are true or allegorical. Yawn. Why don’t these people go off and study Anselm, Aquinas, and the huge mound of centuries and centuries of apologetics that have already said anything this lot could even ever possibly think of discussing. Also, in terms of the glass, object, phenomenon thing, I’d be better off trying to get my head around Husserl and the actual philosophical school of phenomenology than listening to these three who sound like they’ve just discovered these oh-so-deep ideas
Jennifer Nelson
2022-10-02 14:02:20 +0000 UTCPeterson has clearly read from The Hero with a Thousand Faces, but I don’t recall him referencing Campbell in discussions like this, outside of his own Maps of Meaning (I read MoM as far as his highly questionable use of bicameral mind theory to present a fundamental foundation for what followed). I suspect that Peterson not pointing to Campbell (aside from alerting us to his own unoriginality) is to avoid the relativistic danger zone of transcultural religious patterns. This trio want to present Christianity as the special pinnacle of mythological expression. All other narrative expressions, along with Dostoyevsky (as interesting as their inherent humanity may be) are presumably mere refractions of ‘the divine logos’, manifest through varying degrees of human profanity. This, rather than a more quotidian explanation of contextual factors impinging upon the range of possible human expression. Our shared physical form of embodied social being, evolved as a species, is bound to afford certain commonalities and variations in expression across ecological contexts.
Chris Essen
2022-10-02 12:01:06 +0000 UTCSo it seems. And both are ignoring the intersubjective aspects of the glass ‘emerging’. They’re apparently hung up on an idea of perception being individual and therefore having pre-social immediacy.
Chris Essen
2022-10-02 09:14:08 +0000 UTCI quite liked Peterson's discussion of how metaphorical truth can be implicit in literal fiction, because it made it extremely clear what all three of them were trying to say, and why it's so obviously wrong when stated plainly. If the truth in Dostoyevsky's work, or the Bible, is somehow universal to all human beings, then there should be no exceptions for anybody. But if it's instead a culturally specific claim that isn't true for everybody, it can still be valuable to some people without being true for everyone. JBP and co can't even imagine the second option being a reasonable thing to believe, so they default to the first, even though that claim is virtually impossible to justify given the evidence that the rest of us have access to.
André Alessi
2022-10-02 00:26:26 +0000 UTCThere's a similar issue with Pageau's idea of emergence as equivalent to "magic". To be fair, some uses of the term in philosophy do seem to lean in that direction, but only until they're assessed critically, and there's far more critical assessment than bald assertion in the ongoing discussion. Pageau either isn't aware of that literature or doesn't care.
André Alessi
2022-10-02 00:05:08 +0000 UTCIn which psychologist Peterson fails to do basic due diligence on theories of perception. The enactive approach is far less cumbersome (see Action In Perception by Alva Noe).
Chris Essen
2022-09-26 20:08:14 +0000 UTC“Whores will have their trinkets”. Let Matt know that that is one of the most apt quotes from one of the greatest fictional characters ever written to describe a real person who is very quickly becoming a caricature of themselves. Bravo Matt.
elcid
2022-09-25 20:07:17 +0000 UTCIt is getting pretty tired and repetitive at this stage. Could we not get some rabbis to reinvent the religious wheel for a change? At least the jokes would be better (why is the "heterodox sphere" so incredibly humour-challenged?) Agree with what Shounak said above, for all his public school poshboy finish, Murray is really pushing a Breivik-lite white nationalist, "great replacement" line, under the cover of cultural christianity. Pageau and Peterson, not so much, as far as I can tell (at least from this content - I stand to be corrected on the basis of material elsewhere). Like Chris says, Pageau is the straight man relative to the other two, as an unapologetic christian. JBP's just torturing himself for reasons not even he seems to understand. Meh.
Paul Bowman
2022-09-25 15:19:54 +0000 UTCI am struck by how often there is almost coherence but then a read into analogies, metaphors, etc. I am glad you did that so I don't have to.
Derick Varn
2022-09-25 03:33:16 +0000 UTCJP does my head in; his ramblings are as annoying as watching your cousin chew pizza while scratching his ass and a blackboard. I wish he would go away, but he will persist as long as we have the InterWebs, and we will giggle and fart while we talk about him—what fun. Yep, that grouping of intellectual influencers is as bog standard as boggy can be. "The West" (not a thing, by the way) has been committing suicide for ages. (Read, https://www.amazon.com/Suicide-West-Meaning-Destiny-Liberalism/dp/1594037833) Meanwhile, I spent thirty years in "Westernized" Asia, watching "trad societies" lap up everything they could get from The United States of New Miracles (accept this culture war claptrap.) These zombie two-step ditties hardly represent an exciting diversion. (I'm guessing the band on the Titanic was excellent.) Read primary sources and take long walks. Chat with friends while playing pool or knitting socks. Stating the obvious is an arduous stretch. You gents work hard. I hope you are still enjoying it. ***Sigh*** Dostoevsky Dostoevsky Dostoevsky Dostoevsky Dostoevsky Dostoevsky
Steven Cleghorn
2022-09-24 07:20:55 +0000 UTCNice mini decoding guys. Just expounding on Matt’s point about Murray being a cultural Christian, Murray’s central thesis is that loss of belief is the primary cause for Western Europe (in particular) getting tired and demoralised about its existence. Hence this has led to it not sufficiently venerating its historical institutions & traditions. Also this loss of Christian pride is what has led Western Europe to open its borders and let in millions of Muslim & other “undesirable” immigrants because White Europeans have lost faith in preserving their own borders & self-interests. Look Murray straight up is a practitioner of overt white identity politics. He is primarily concerned about immigration. In “Strange Death of Europe” he openly states that immigration be largely restricted to fellow Western Europeans, followed by Eastern Europeans in second place. Everyone else was declared “less than ideal” due to lack of cultural compatibility. Therefore, despite him being a borderline atheist, he is willing to partake in these waffling discussions with Peterson and Pageau. As he sees Europe retaining its Christian identity as integral to the continent renewing its desire to preserve its own people. It is immaterial if the stories themselves makes sense or not, it is the larger purpose they can serve. There is a big vile political angle here going on with Murray, while Peterson and Pageau are more concerned about the actual theology and religious apologetics themselves. Anyways enjoyed the episode, just wanted to add my 2 cents 😊
SHOUNAK SARKAR
2022-09-24 04:58:58 +0000 UTCIf you're still in Noosa, highly recommend Whisky Boy.
Brendan H.
2022-09-24 00:37:53 +0000 UTC
