Recoding Sam Harris with Eiynah (Part 1)
Added 2022-03-22 07:11:02 +0000 UTCHey everyone,
Thought some of you might be interested in this if you haven't already seen it. I did an extended (4 hour!) interview with Eiynah from the Polite Conversations podcast. Eiynah is a long term critic of Sam Harris and has been semi-vocal about some disagreements she has with our approach.
When she asked me to come on and discuss our relative experiences with interviewing Sam Harris & our broader views I thought it would make for an interesting discussion and that enough time had passed that it was not likely to be noticed & taken as a huge slight by Sam.
I think we had an interesting conversation, although it is very insider baseball at times. If you wanted to know more about my thoughts on the interview and Sam Harris more broadly this is for you. If not, better to avoid!
Part 2 is where Eiynah and I discuss are disagreements and some of her criticisms more directly so I'll share that in a separate post too.
Comments
Cheers for the comments. Eiynah's delivery is certainly not for everyone but she definitely does her research!
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-03-30 05:25:14 +0000 UTCHer podcast, her focus... I was fine following her lead.
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-03-30 05:23:24 +0000 UTCKata, A. (2012). Anti-vaccine activists, Web 2.0, and the postmodern paradigm–An overview of tactics and tropes used online by the anti-vaccination movement. Vaccine, 30(25), 3778-3789.
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-03-25 06:23:06 +0000 UTCDoes anyone know which 2011 antivax paper Chris was referring to?
Jesse Hodges
2022-03-24 23:34:57 +0000 UTCSorry, I deleted a post about Tommy Robinson but only because I confused him with someone else. I apologize,I don’t know enough about this Tommy Robinson to comment
Rod Hodges
2022-03-24 23:21:03 +0000 UTCI feel like everytime you tried to make a substantive point about a person or political position you let her suck you into an analysis of whether they/it was "right wing". How cares about where something falls on a nebulous, ever changing, two dimensional political spectrum rather than if it's correct or productive?
James Lohner
2022-03-24 16:14:38 +0000 UTCI noticed the Scott Adam’s chuckles in her intros/monologues too and was very pleased that she refrained from further chuckling after the conversation started. The sound was startlingly similar to Adams laugh and therefore I’m sorry to say equally disgusting. However I didn’t find anything else too objectionable about her speaking style and enjoyed the debate. I really can’t see that anything DTG have said would encourage people to adopt Sam Harris’ racism and islamophobia or swallow Rogan’s bigotry although I enjoyed the points she made to Chris about them and the disingenuous Williamson.
Conal dunn
2022-03-23 21:31:15 +0000 UTCIt's a good conversation to have, but Eiynah's speaking style is super grating. It sounds to me like she belittles other opinions while at the same time whining about being criticised. It isn't that overt, but it's noticeable. It actually reminds me of how Scott Adams talks, even that little chuckle he does. An odd feeling of ingenuity and a sense of the audience being talked down to. Maybe others can overlook her condescending tone and focus on the topic, but it really gets in the way for me. It's annoying because I pretty much agree with her on most points, the delivery is just uncomfortable. That said, I'm glad you guys are branching out to lots of different avenues. Keep up the good work!
JJ
2022-03-23 20:19:18 +0000 UTCTommy Robinson's performance on Dave Rubin is fine there are parts of it that are eyebrow raising but it's difficult to know where to stand in 2016 especially if you don't think he's making up facts. I also think it was an awful interview from Rubin because Rubin is throwing soft balls but Tommy Robinson is a skilled rhetorician in my opinion. He starts off with differentiating Islam and Muslims. Obviously this isn't an endorsement of Tommy but what Eiynah said about that ingredients is super uncharitable. I genuinely don't know much of Douglas Murray. I've always found him smug but nothing much more than that. I remember being really excited to listen to your episode about Douglas because I've heard terrible stuff about him but you guys basically summarised what I thought he was from the little I knew about him which was - he's a Conservative who was decent at pointing flaws with the left but was basically a partisan (except if I'm misremembering, it's been a while). Also my point is that there's so much to criticise about Eiynah's takes IMO and in a 4hr convo, you don't go to her with anything. The only milquetoast pushback you give is on Sam's political position which is so inconsequential if Eiynah wasn't the kind of person to have you concede something to her on all her assessments with Sam it should have been something you guys should have skimmed through (something she shares with Sam) but I guess she got you to draw some comparison between Sam and Trump so Sam being RW should have been easy pickings.
Dr Badmouth
2022-03-23 00:19:16 +0000 UTCI think she did make her case well but doesn’t mean I agree with her assessment. That said I do think on most of the points she emphasised Sam is bad. He did endorse far right figures views on immigration, he did say it’s 50/50 on whether France will descend into a civil war with Muslims in next 10 years, he did make terrible arguments on racial profiling and completely dismiss the views of the expert he was dealing with, etc. Q for you: you Do you disagree with her that Sam’s endorsement of Tommy Robinson’s immigration views or his consistent endorsement of Douglas Murray and inability to recognise his extreme partisan stances is non-diagnostic? My stance on Sam is pretty much the same as it was before my discussion with Eiynah. The main thing that has moved the needle on my assessment of Sam recently is speaking to him directly.
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-03-22 23:25:28 +0000 UTCtalking about Sam SEDER to be clear haha
Michael Morency-Frame
2022-03-22 23:23:56 +0000 UTCBrandon Sutton on the majority report is very intelligent and of course, Michael Brooks was brilliant. I find Sam to be principled and open to debate in contrast to the impression you are sharing here. His style is slow and cumbersome-ly articulated as his background of having a bit of law studies makes for meticulous scaffolding of logic which can be off-putting since it's at odds with his slick bits he can do as a performer. If you disagree with his recent takes specifically, I would be very happy to learn but I am perplexed by the hatred I am sensing.
Michael Morency-Frame
2022-03-22 23:23:11 +0000 UTCI can’t because it’s from Eiynah’s podcast!
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-03-22 22:52:14 +0000 UTCFar as I can tell Seder’s commentary on IDW types is low hanging fruit and not always funny but also not wrong. His other takes have been getting worse as of late but like maybe 2 years ago I think he was pretty on point (though I’d have disagreed with him at the time). But yes his attitude is incredibly alienating to anyone who doesn’t already agree with him and looking past that to actually evaluate his takes is genuinely hard for me due to how put off I am by his sneering superiority complex. I think that is why is political takes have been getting worse and worse, his presentation style means he’s just preaching to a choir. Also everyone else on the majority report is nowhere near as intelligent as Sam and never has been. No idea what purpose they serve.
Andy
2022-03-22 22:23:16 +0000 UTCSam Seder was made in a lab to be the perfect stereotype of a stuck up liberal prick who thinks he’s smarter than everyone else. Who is actually quite dumb. To be fair, I know him mostly through the 30second clips he aggregates of Rubin, which he then turns into an 8 minute, unfunny commentary
Tom
2022-03-22 21:43:24 +0000 UTCI think so. Or at least a similar level of invective. I think the crazy criticism comes more from Sam perceiving Eiynah as an obsessive critic, rather than because she is a woman but I could be wrong.
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-03-22 21:27:47 +0000 UTCHow could Sam Seder's behaviour be in any way be called 'psychopatic'? He seems to be the most level headed and consistent of any radio-politico-commentators I can think of.
Michael Morency-Frame
2022-03-22 18:41:08 +0000 UTCThe question is whether “mental health” criticism is leveled at her because she’s a woman (“hysteria” anyone?) Does he say any male critics are mentally ill? @Sedrick (the app isn’t letting me nest this as a response to your comment)
Jennifer Nelson
2022-03-22 17:59:43 +0000 UTCI think the way to blunt Sam’s comments about her “mental illness” without sending him down a long winded rabbit hole is to say something like: unless you are a doctor who knows someone personally and has access to any medical information you can’t have a legitimate opinion on anyone’s mental health
Jennifer Nelson
2022-03-22 16:58:38 +0000 UTCIt’s my fault. I didn’t know AirPods were on, gets fixed after an hour and a bit.
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-03-22 15:29:16 +0000 UTCIf he notices, I don’t think he will.
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-03-22 15:20:10 +0000 UTCYou think Sam Harris is not going to take this as a huge slight? That is so cute. Please deduct 100 points from your Scottish cynicism score.
palmer neill
2022-03-22 15:04:10 +0000 UTCYea Super annoying, but you can temporarily subscribe to Eiynah’s Polite Conversations podcast for these two eps.
nazar dzoba
2022-03-22 14:42:47 +0000 UTCAaah! The sound quality is painful to listen to. Its even worse than your robotic voice episodes.
nazar dzoba
2022-03-22 14:39:24 +0000 UTCGood interview from Eiynah, I feel like I now know the extent to which Chris doesn't like Sam (something I don't think I could have said before). I think a frustration Eiynah and I both shared albeit from the opposite side was how much Chris and Sam really differ... My earlier comment still stands, it seems weird to say that you're in Harris' tribe if you can have a 4hr friendly convo with Eiynah where you mostly agree with her on how awful Sam is and she always 'makes her case well' 🤷🏾♂️
Dr Badmouth
2022-03-22 13:33:25 +0000 UTCFinished part one. Definitely an enjoyable conversation. Eiynah knows her Sam Harris history so makes for a good interview partner if you enjoy hearing him decoded. She has such a chip on her shoulder though. It really bothers me when people who choose to insert themselves into the public conversation talk about being "Exhausted" by it all like they're not choosing to be there. She can't help wearily letting people know she is in fact a woman over and over as if to say "and therefore... can't you just see how HARD everything is for ME." But she's a critic. She makes harsh sarcastic criticisms of real people. She is (mostly fairly perhaps) trying to get the world to see certain people are Nazi Aligned... this is serious commentary.... So grow a thick skin. Sam Harris has about 100 enemies most of whom are guys and he calls them all kinds of names and his fans go after them too but she wants to make the interview about how Chris should have spent time pushing back on Sam calling her Crazy? She's lucky Chris even knows who she is. Underlying Guru energy in making things about her... But yeah fair enough it was a good episode!
Tasty3141
2022-03-22 12:39:55 +0000 UTCWe specifically discuss that in Part 2 you should listen!
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-03-22 11:24:53 +0000 UTCPlease put episodes like this in the Galaxy Brain Feed 🙏. Patreon is a nightmare to navigate
Kirk Adkisson
2022-03-22 10:38:45 +0000 UTCThis was a delight 😩. I'm yet to listen to part 2 but I still remember Chris saying he was in Sam's tribe and now we're having Chris and Eiynah getting along dunking on Chris fellow tribal buddy
Dr Badmouth
2022-03-22 08:51:50 +0000 UTCI find her insufferable on Twitter but thought this exchange was quite fruitful and the disagreements were enjoyable, well-articulated, and fairly presented (though to be fair I only listened to part 2 because I like to hear people like Chris have out their disagreements with their critics)
Andy
2022-03-22 08:50:10 +0000 UTCI'll enjoy this but unfortunately I can never take Eiynah entirely seriously in her demands for Sam to address his critics when she insta blocked me for giving her a mild criticism of her own on twitter. I dunno why but people who want to endlessly give it out but cant' seem to take it really lose a lot of respect from me. I was really surprised Sam came on DTG but the fact that he did definitely boosted his stock with me somewhat simply because a lot of gurus hide from criticism.
Tasty3141
2022-03-22 08:43:38 +0000 UTC
