Robert Wright has written a fantastic article on Tribalism
Added 2021-11-17 04:30:40 +0000 UTCI know the full article is pay walled.
I know I'm a little biased.
But this article by Bob is soooo good that I wanted to recommend everyone to check it out. I'm trying to convince Bob to release it from behind the paywall and he is considering to do so in a few weeks. So at least one to bookmark.
He's doing a whole series on Tribalism and if this is anything to go by it will be great.
This is what I meant when I used the term.
Cathartic.
-Chris
Comments
Some reflections on factions and loyalty for the curious https://eidgenossen.medium.com/ideology-and-politics-d186f9f760e5#1f41
Paul Bowman
2021-11-19 11:40:27 +0000 UTCBut there was a time when the language that existed included terms like "miasma", "ether", "humours", "phlogiston" etc, that turned out to be major barriers against advances like germ theory, etc. If the language that exists represents concepts that are not just wrong, but obstructive, then it has to be confronted. You can't just tail-end all the time
Paul Bowman
2021-11-19 11:36:53 +0000 UTCGreat point! And I agree it doesn’t require personal assent to be in a group.
Christopher Kavanagh
2021-11-18 22:53:32 +0000 UTCPeople don’t use it in that way commonly. Just have to deal with language as it exists.
Christopher Kavanagh
2021-11-18 22:50:16 +0000 UTCI saw and I think Sam is now pretty ok with openly stating he has variable charity based on personal relationships which is an improvement!
Christopher Kavanagh
2021-11-18 22:49:34 +0000 UTCChris did you see Sam Harris’ recent tweet criticizing something from Chelsea Handler? He self consciously included something like “it’s hard to criticize someone you’ve been friendly with, but this…”. I read that and wondered if some of your tribalism critiques might have soaked in a bit with the time since the interview was posted. It often works like that, don’t you think? Some lessons can’t be absorbed immediately, they need to marinate.
Kevin Nyberg
2021-11-18 17:48:10 +0000 UTCI think that might explain it rather well. Still dashed inconsiderate of these other countries to be using different time zones to ours- it's tribalism gone mad. I thought Brexit had solved all of this.
Andrew Bowe
2021-11-18 13:21:34 +0000 UTCYeah the common usage of tribalism now has nothing really to do with the anthropological term.
Christopher Kavanagh
2021-11-18 11:19:01 +0000 UTCDifferent timezones?
Sean Carmody
2021-11-17 22:23:21 +0000 UTCWho posts a Patreon update at 4.15am GMT? Don’t get me wrong, I love to receive DTG updates as much as the next man, and if that update concerns Bob Wright then so much the better, but there are limits. My Ipad was not on silent, but was on the bedside table, and my wife is still blaming me for it. Try decoding this one ‘turn that effing thing off now before I f**king break it’. Harsh words, of course, from wife to husband, particularly when screamed at 4am in the morning, but you get the point.
Andrew Bowe
2021-11-17 18:51:08 +0000 UTCi'd actually be interested in Chris's take on this....is this a decent proxy at all? my initial take is nfw
Andrew Gough
2021-11-17 17:29:23 +0000 UTCAlso, for the record, I really don't see what's wrong with the word "faction" that's been around since before Cicero
Paul Bowman
2021-11-17 14:43:28 +0000 UTCTribalism as a social structure can be proxy mapped by reference to first-cousin marriage (which is foundation to the majority of tribal structures, although there are a minority of structures that practice the opposite of extreme exogamy - marriage between relations closer than cousins 8 times removed is prohibited amongst the Karapapaks of the Caucausus, for e.g.). See e.g. map of cousin marriage prevalence here https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/2w9w2y/cousin_marriage_across_the_world_15001159/
Paul Bowman
2021-11-17 11:20:50 +0000 UTCTribalism is a kinship/lineage based social structure, not a "psychology". Although I will wait for access to the full article before passing overall judgement, the cowboy & indian graphic and the reference to US Lone Ranger TV shows is an extremely dire opening.
Paul Bowman
2021-11-17 11:15:31 +0000 UTCA good article. I’ve long been (and continue to be) a listener to Sam’s podcast and one of the things that has always riled me is how quick he is to describe his critics or those he disagrees with a lying or acting in bad faith. This is a point you tried to make and Robert articulates well in this article. In your podcast there did seem to be a definitional challenge and Robert’s writing goes a long way to getting to a useful definition but I’d suggest a tweak to his distillation at the end “You are being tribal when your identification with a group, or the cause it embodies, creates distortions of thought and perception that lead to behaviors that heighten antagonisms with other groups.” I’m sure Sam would say he doesn’t “identify” with IDW for example. So maybe “associate with” is closer. Needs work. Lastly, after being trained by the Stuart Ritchie pod I was cautious to swallow this idea without evidence: “After all, from the standpoint of evolutionary psychology, the function of cognitive biases is to warp your perception and thought without your being aware of the warping. Your mind was engineered by natural selection to convince you that you’re in the right even when you’re not.”
Sean Carmody
2021-11-17 08:40:44 +0000 UTC
