Algorithmic Complacency: the finished version
Added 2025-02-21 23:27:59 +0000 UTCThank you so much for your feedback, everyone. I made several changes to the video and removed some of the pieces that were admittedly a little too self-indulgent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEJpZjg8GuA
As a programming note, I played with moving the Google Maps story up to the beginning as several of you suggested but I realized that wouldn't work. The video has a flow which roughly goes
research demo -> topic intro -> history lesson -> social media algos -> automation
and putting the automation discussion up front was too clunky. I added some voiceover to explain "yeah, researching antique radios is pretty esoteric" and attempted to not bury the lede so much.
I'll be working on captions tonight and intend to publish this tomorrow.
Edit: Oh, right, I decided against bloopers and credits on this video since it's on the more serious/depressing side. Also I felt weird attaching your names to what's mostly a professional-sounding rant.
toodles
Comments
over two weeks after watching this I've notice a shift in my attitude towards youtube. I find myself thinking more about what I want to watch.
Antha Auciello
2025-03-08 15:27:31 +0000 UTCI really love your content Alec! But unfortunately i can not support your toxic discord community anymore!
Sollidottingen
2025-03-07 19:31:46 +0000 UTChttps://www.404media.co/microsoft-study-finds-ai-makes-human-cognition-atrophied-and-unprepared-3/
Jerrad Pierce
2025-03-01 20:37:15 +0000 UTCtook me several days until I had the courage to click the depressing link. And now I still need to convince myself to click on Joe Scott's video...
Gunstick
2025-03-01 17:10:49 +0000 UTCYeah, there’s a reason the language surrounding the internet has changed from exploration and finding out information to 'content delivery', like the difference between cooking a pizza from scratch and ordering a dominoes. Both result in food for your mouth hole but one provides knowledge and understanding as well.
Sam Parsons
2025-02-27 18:16:30 +0000 UTCAlec, your frustrations with overzealous internet search algorithms are largely solved by metasearch engines like SearXNG https://searx.space/ I've been using public SearX and/or SearXNG instances in place of conventional search engines for over a year and had absolutely no complaints about bad behavior.
darkwater4213
2025-02-27 00:08:17 +0000 UTCI have noticed that YT Music is like the same 30-40 songs... Pandora had the same problem for me. I've got 50+ years of music that I like, it's really dumb that the fanciest algorithms can't keep me entertained for 24 hour straight of music without repeats.
Daniel Fleck
2025-02-25 16:01:29 +0000 UTCI hate that the algorithm doesn't allow for human curiosity. If I'm curious about something I look into it. It doesn't mean that I want to be bombarded with ads for that thing for the next two weeks. I saw it and I wanted to know more.
Minnesota Turtle
2025-02-25 12:54:52 +0000 UTCI loved this video. Thanks for making it!
Ajinkya Kokandakar
2025-02-25 05:50:00 +0000 UTCI've been using the "Unhook" chrome extension, it blocks shorts, recommendations, and redirects to the subscriptions page. Highly recommend! https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/unhook-remove-youtube-rec/khncfooichmfjbepaaaebmommgaepoid
Rob
2025-02-24 21:27:01 +0000 UTCGreat video! It's tough to stay optimistic about the state of the tech industry (or even the world at large) these days. It's good to hear you voice familiar concerns in such a calm and thought-out manner. This video also reminded me to finally support you on patreon. It's not much but I spread out a set amount across my favorite creators to make up for the fact that I exclusively watch via Newpipe these days because I failed to avoid but always regreted being sucked into shorts binges and found no other way of escaping their algorithmically-sharpened claws altogether (sharing this because it seemed very on-topic here).
mr_scrawley
2025-02-24 21:15:08 +0000 UTCAlong these lines, Last Week Tonight with John Oliver just covered Content Moderation. Great supplemental video in regards to signal-to-noise ratio.
Dre
2025-02-24 16:22:18 +0000 UTCAstute observations. Been keenly aware of these disturbing trends in society for a decade or more, and working daily to challenge them. My own focus has been fighting the enshitification of computing and the internet through groups like the FSF, EFF, FFTF, and the Mozilla Foundation, and 30 year a vocal advocate for Free, Liberated, Open Source Software and hardware.
AArexx AAron Ruscetta
2025-02-23 23:04:48 +0000 UTCThat's me too. I use the bar atop to browse through my subscriptions and the rest... Well, I ignore
Raul Ramos
2025-02-23 18:25:43 +0000 UTCA comment on GPS that is only tangentially related to the point of the video. My first GPS was a service app from Verizon in like Android 2 or 3 that you could pay for a day or week only if you did not want to pay monthly. It had 3 navigation options, quickest time, shortest route, and what it considered "best". I miss shortest route as it showed me new less obvious ways of getting places. It would take you down random streets that were not optimal, but it was fun and gave you new options to create your own optimized route.
WildMartin
2025-02-23 13:08:05 +0000 UTCBeen watching since the can opener episode, but this (and the latest Christmas lights vid) gave me the motivation to overcome my adhd and look up the Patreon. Anti-intellectualism is powerful because it is simple and easy. Thanks for explicitly calling it out at the end.
den
2025-02-23 05:54:44 +0000 UTCThe ugly cost of smartphones https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad-skW0SWeE
lohphat
2025-02-23 05:15:16 +0000 UTCSaid this in the video comments, too, but wanted to share more directly: "One thing that goes a bit underrated for me is the extent to which adverse algos are a choice. I was one of the 43 people who used the old Google Play Music. Its radio algorithm was VERY good. You could set it and reliably get three or four hours of thematically similar music—even in relatively narrow genres—including a bunch of obscurer, new-to-you stuff. Once they switched over to YouTube Music, the algorithm was suddenly much more about playing what you already like from a broader genre and much more conventionally popular content. There's something about knowing for certain that genuinely helpful algorithms are possible to turn one against the current state of the industry and the actors within. Most current implementations feel like a broad strokes applications meant to shovel generic slop as a method to reduce the amount of human effort, maximize automation, minimize costs, and influence tastes. It's rough."
Kevin Kostka
2025-02-23 04:14:33 +0000 UTCjust to let you know if you turn off youtube history a wonderfull thing happens. Youtube blocks the home page and only allows you to view your subscriptions. You dont get fed random garbage and I find new content from the related videos under my subscribed channels posts. Also the App has a subscription widget. Wonderful video!
Patrick Hughes
2025-02-23 01:56:49 +0000 UTCThat's totally fair! That's exactly why I have YT premium. And this now of course. Thanks for the response!
Aeneas Aquinas
2025-02-22 23:39:27 +0000 UTCWhat a clear description of the phenomenon. Seems to me we are further down the line as i though. This binary opinion system you describe could be the basis for the increasing polarisation in society. Your way of presenting this story, helps me to explain it to others.
Simon IJskes
2025-02-22 23:27:31 +0000 UTCThank you!
Technology Connections
2025-02-22 23:23:57 +0000 UTCI have nothing at all against Nebula, but easy access to my videos is what's most important to me. If YouTube crosses some lines of mine I would consider making moves to join it, but tbh there's a lot of... I guess you could say ideological noise to cut through with decisions like this. While many people understandably loathe the idea of giving money to Google, YT Premium really is like... what Nebula is but without the gatekeeping. Most creators don't promote it at all because it's expensive and they way the music side of it works obfuscates the revenue share, but if Premium Lite actually comes to the US and other markets (which is just to remove ads on the video side and doesn't include YT Music) I personally prefer to be on a platform which anyone can get to and anyone can start making videos on.
Technology Connections
2025-02-22 23:23:18 +0000 UTCI wouldn't have minded to have my name attached to it. As in the feedback post mentioned, your rant very much resonates with me. Thanks for publishing it!
Christoph Grabo
2025-02-22 23:19:53 +0000 UTCThank you!
Technology Connections
2025-02-22 23:19:06 +0000 UTCThank you for this video. I appreciate your desire to have the technology support humanity and not the other way around. As a Canadian, I appreciate your saying out loud the implications of forcible annexation of Canada without the blase analysis of just how it benefits the US. Thank you.
Myron Dietz
2025-02-22 23:18:30 +0000 UTCThis is already making the rounds on Lemmy (federated reddit) with people asking "why not switch to peertube?" https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/22298501
neuracnu
2025-02-22 23:08:13 +0000 UTCWell! I didn’t watch your rough draft but I have now watched this version because it was recommended by YouTube :) But I disagree with your views of the stats about home/subscriptions/etc … my recommendations are because I am subscribed; as soon as a new video comes up from you, or techmoan, or mend it mark, or … it goes straight to my recommendations and saves me hunting through the subscriptions. When subscriptions include things like nbc sports because we want EPL but not all the other sports then looking through the subscriptions is awful but the recommendations will pick out and highlight the EPL content we normally watch; it works well. So maybe tell folks to subscribe as a way to assist the recommendations but don’t assume that watching from the home page means I have no idea what I’m doing!
Ian Cull
2025-02-22 21:33:42 +0000 UTCSo you may or probably have addressed this elsewhere, but this seems like an ok place to ask (relevancy-wise): is there a particular reason you are not on Nebula? It seems like it aligns with your audience, and avoids some of these algorithms more than others. Just curious!
Aeneas Aquinas
2025-02-22 20:59:41 +0000 UTCSuch a great video that I had to make make a Patreon account and start giving you money. It's a bit sad that things like these need to be said, because it should be super obvious to anyone with a bit of common sense that taking feeds put together by fine-tuned algorithms (that are also often adjusted and "improved" by evil people to fit their agenda) as the only and absolute source of truth is stupid. It seems that the progress to stop people from thinking as much as possible is going pretty smoothly... I also often mindlessly scroll through various feeds, which is how I found your first video couple of years ago (and now I'm giving you money, so it worked super effectively), but I guess that knowing the point when to actually start questioning and thinking about things is becoming rarer every day. It's common sense even for me, who's super anti-social and overthinks everything that involves other people, but oh well... So thanks for being a sensible person who can yap about random things for 30+ minutes while being entertaining and keep going <3
beee
2025-02-22 20:57:13 +0000 UTCSubscribed for years. This vid made me want to become a direct supporter.
Noel Lopez
2025-02-22 20:27:58 +0000 UTCYou make a good point, and admittedly I consider it a bit of a grey area. I suppose what I really mean is I've sworn off toxic social media - the kinds of platforms that push the kind of experience railed against in this video. I consider YouTube, here, and yes, Reddit, to be actually valuable and worth keeping for the lovely communities and content.
David Kahler
2025-02-22 20:01:23 +0000 UTCI prefer to walk. Not only do I see my neighbors, but they see me as well, and we talk to each other. You experience the world in finer detail at 5km/h. As we have chosen to eliminate walking as a practical form of transportation, we have also eliminated a major conduit for human connection.
Eliott Wiener
2025-02-22 19:57:12 +0000 UTCYes, that will be true for some readers -- but not my (obscure add-on to an obscure e-mail client) reader. Given that I don't have a large number of RSS readers I mess around with, I don't know how many of them in practice implement HTML parsing to pull out the alternate link on a page. But you're right, "good" readers back in the day would do that on your behalf. [I do sincerely miss the days when Firefox had an inbuilt RSS-reader.]
Travis Snoozy
2025-02-22 19:51:46 +0000 UTCYou can just put the channel URL into your reader, like https://www.youtube.com/@TechnologyConnections The page has a [link] tag that contains the RSS URL.
Michael Dunn
2025-02-22 19:16:39 +0000 UTC"entirely" is an interesting word to use... who am I to you, and how are we communicating?
Jedidiah Peterson
2025-02-22 19:16:35 +0000 UTCIf you use Firefox, there's an extension called "Youtube-shorts block" that removes shorts from the subscriptions feed and elsewhere. It also forces shorts to load in the regular video player for those rare times that I want to watch a short.
Michael Dunn
2025-02-22 18:57:44 +0000 UTCWhile I have also spent the better part of the last decade shaking my fist at the sky on this topic, one aspect I've only recently considered - many of the people who have truly given in the algorithmic complacency didn't use the Internet when it was actually a bit of work to use. My mom never used the Internet until someone signed her up to Facebook, even though we had it in our house for years. She has almost exclusively used social media when using the Internet. I think there are a lot of people out there who simply cannot or do not want to have to do any heavy lifting in learning how to research things online. And the unfortunate reality is that many who try do their own "research" end up believing some pretty dreadful things.
Declan
2025-02-22 18:44:43 +0000 UTCThanks so much for this. It articulates my feelings so much better than I can myself. I just wish there could be meaningful discussion in YouTube comments. Bluesky is perhaps a bit more suited to that, but not by much. Instead, I've decided to just forego social media entirely.
David Kahler
2025-02-22 18:40:02 +0000 UTCMore obscure than the subscription feed is the fact that you can go to a creator's page on YouTube, open up the HTML source, and dig out an RSS alternate link. You can then stuff that link into an RSS reader (anybody remember those?) and presto! You get the (consumer) benefit of a subscription, without the need to sign in to -- let alone passively visit -- YouTube.
Travis Snoozy
2025-02-22 18:21:06 +0000 UTCThis is a really good video, it encapsulated a lot of the thoughts I've had myself and even expressed to others. As someone who was doing research w/ AI/deep learning for weather and in the medical field, it makes me really sad to see how things changed from even 4 years ago. Thank you for this
Ben van Oostendorp
2025-02-22 17:23:36 +0000 UTCI watched your original "Edit Lite" rant, and when you talked about the subscription feed, I got excited! I went out to set it up and discovered that my link to You Tube is through the Subscriptions link. I did notice that you use YT Premium, and I don't so the full functionality of subscriptions may not apply to cheap people. While I don't get crap in the main feed, when I'm done watching an episode, all the filters are off on the "Watch this next" list.
Mike Bird
2025-02-22 17:06:51 +0000 UTCHis focus is the ways in which Silicon Valley has changed for the worse since ~2012, focused heavily on AI and what he’s termed the ‘Rot Economy’. If you haven’t heard of him, have time, and are curious these are probably the best recent samples (he started with a newsletter then got a podcast last year). https://www.wheresyoured.at/never-forgive-them/ (Newsletter post) https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-offline/id1730587238?i=1000682293321 (broad summary of the 1st year of the podcast, different content to the newsletter but same theme, pt 1 of 2)
Moranin
2025-02-22 16:24:06 +0000 UTCLove the finished video! It is absolutely articulating a phenomenon that is very real and pernicious. I had absolutely no idea YouTube had that subscription feature existed. I wanted to mention (and here seems like a better place than the YouTube comments) that what you’re talking about really resonates with me because it’s adjacent to one of my favorite podcasts and I wanted to mention it just in case it’s a creator that you haven’t heard of but might enjoy. Plus… the contrast between your content and his is, well, kind of hilarious. Ed Zitron is very British, works in PR, lives in Vegas, and swears a *lot*. But he has the same clear, deep, love of learning and desire for his audience to learn and apply knowledge and that shines through in all of your videos. (I’m going to share links as a separate post in case that isn’t allowed.)
Moranin
2025-02-22 16:23:57 +0000 UTCMy only complaint is the lack of "Thanks for watching." at the end.
Minecraft Chest1
2025-02-22 16:01:39 +0000 UTCI somehow omitted movie streaming from this which is very much in the same bucket as what was discussed
Ben
2025-02-22 14:41:17 +0000 UTCSomething that’s just crossed my mind is to what extent can the subscription model of games/software etc can be linked to this. In so far as the comparison from going to the shop to buy a new game (and therefore using your own agency and research) but now being more and more forced down the feeds on subscription sites etc. Also not least the fact you then don’t own the darn thing ever
Ben
2025-02-22 14:32:46 +0000 UTCThe browsers themselves don't make it easy. It's silly how many times I've ended up "searching" for the name of an intranet server. And yes, I'm sure this is by design.
George Schizas
2025-02-22 13:22:04 +0000 UTCMe too... but then I'm also shocked that none of my co-workers **in an IT department** use bookmarks. The number of times I've seen someone go to google and freakin' google for microsoft.com...
Crash Cash
2025-02-22 10:40:20 +0000 UTCGood idea to leave out bloobers and names from such a topic. What you could perhaps maybe do is post a short bloopers clip for patrons only. Just a thought, the bloobers are fun.
J Ruonti
2025-02-22 09:01:40 +0000 UTCTried too mention this in the YT comments from the previous version but came a bit late, it seems. I don’t mean to insist, btw, repeating it just in case. I do think you are making an important point and I’d like more people to get it. Sorry if this comment sounds too critical. I only want to help. At the very end of this video you say that Silicon Valley is doing the stuff it’s doing to justify itself as the center of innovation and the best answer they got is “computers that pretend to think”. I think this comment is a bit hard to defend and it may weaken your overall message. Although fewer people watch videos till the end, finishing on a questionable point may distract whoever listens to things and undermine your otherwise pretty solid argument. To be clear, the easiest line of attack on this point would be: they made algorithmic feeds because they bring in tons of money. And they make other automation because that is also promising to make them tons of money. The status of “a center of innovation” is something very few people care about, and the sentiment of “we are losing our status because computing is a solved problem” does not seem very present in the Valley from what I can see. Please correct me if I’m wrong, btw. Those corrections so probably work on the rest of the audience too. And thanks for making this video, I believe it’s important to raise awareness of algorithmic complacency. Best of luck!
Andrey
2025-02-22 07:25:45 +0000 UTCThe hard cut at the end was more impactful than the usual bloopers and music, wonderful as they are.
Trammin’ Kirk
2025-02-22 07:17:13 +0000 UTCI'm genuinely shocked at the subscriptions %. I, like, primarily use subscriptions to go find videos.
Nicolas Pereira
2025-02-22 05:19:27 +0000 UTCMy household is pretty subscriptions exclusive. Partly because it's a good whitelist for the kids. Instead of steering me toward using it, you have instilled a new fear in me that it'll be taken away!
John Baber-Lucero
2025-02-22 03:36:35 +0000 UTCIf you say that I should start thinking for myself, then I'm in! Here I go... What is it I should be thinking about again?
Robert Sanges
2025-02-22 03:18:16 +0000 UTCI want to add that there is one *very* important difference between then and now: data. In the same way that I have a shocking amount of information on my audience, I can see exactly where people lose interest in what they're watching. Creators like Mr. Beast are analyzing that data with a fine-toothed-comb to create incredibly engaging (addictive?) content. Information campaigns are *completely different* now that these tools are available, and as media has become decentralized it is also extremely difficult to hold anyone accountable for what they're doing. So I agree that the concept of "vegging out" and watching media isn't new (nor do I think that's bad! I do it!) but the ways people are influenced by media are wildly different in this interactive world.
Technology Connections
2025-02-22 03:12:32 +0000 UTCMost of the stock-footage-heavy segments are over sections where this is no A-roll since it's voiceover. But where I used it elsewhere - well we're going to have an interesting test, I guess. A talking-head-heavy video may do well with those in my audience who are very committed to my work, but the main reason I work so much on B-roll in my videos is that I know it's the main reason my videos have good retention metrics. I believe it is necessary to do regular cut-aways to keep the attention of folks who are more inclined to distractions. In this case, it's a double-edged sword.
Technology Connections
2025-02-22 03:03:12 +0000 UTCThis is why I deleted YT app from my device and never use their website any longer. I get all my viewing from Patreon (where I also support), Odysee, Nebula, CuriosityStream, TED, etc. No ads. No algorithms. And I get to “channel surf” or browse like I did before in a newspaper, magazine, or my library. Bliss.
Brian Deschene
2025-02-22 02:35:17 +0000 UTCThis isn’t new thought. Who researched issues themselves instead of going along with your newspaper article or editorial page. Not many. At least now it’s easier.
Rick LaBanca
2025-02-22 02:20:19 +0000 UTCThe danger is not that people are consuming *entertainment* passively but consuming *information* passively and without vetting it. Quite often “information” packaged to be entertaining rather than informative. Without practicing the skills to seek out information yourself, how can you effectively vet it out as it is dished out to you by the algorithms.
Brian Deschene
2025-02-22 02:14:59 +0000 UTCAgree with some other commenters, I don't think the stock "scrolling phone and computers" footage really adds much. Embrace that this is a talking head video, and keep the focus on your talking head. It actually makes the point more compelling that you spent that long walking through your argument to a camera as opposed to doing ADR.
Vitreous Humour
2025-02-22 01:50:02 +0000 UTCDefinitely not new. Algorithmic complacency was the standard of how people consumed media in the past. No internet, 3-5 channels on TV if you didn't have cable, and maybe a handful of radio stations - all of which offered no way to customize the content or submit meaningful feedback that would change the programs offered. If you didn't like what was on you turned it off and did something else. I agree it is preferable for people to live their lives with intention, and consume media thoughtfully, but I have difficulty being seriously alarmed about people passively consuming video entertainment. A lot of the other stuff talked about in the video I wholeheartedly agree with, great discussion overall, but that one specific thing doesn't feel like a big deal to me, probably because I'm old.
Dawn Anthes
2025-02-22 01:38:20 +0000 UTCVery well done! The reordering and extra polish is sublime
Dani
2025-02-22 00:10:17 +0000 UTCI would not call it depressing. It’s interesting although I guess it’s depressing to you but me as an old guy, it’s not new.
Rick LaBanca
2025-02-21 23:33:59 +0000 UTCI thoroughly enjoyed the rough cut as well, although I did wish there were more expletives there :) A loose Alec is a fun Alec Great videos!
Asaf Sagi
2025-02-21 23:33:10 +0000 UTCI comment first! Algo-brain!
Arif Ghostwriter
2025-02-21 23:32:51 +0000 UTC
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