Hiawatha - I: The Great Law of Peace - Extra History

So awesome to see history from a continent you haven't covered yet, and more to the point, an important subject that is too often ignored! Thanks, EC!

Robert Griffith

If you're creating another series in addition to the brothers Gracchi, how come you don't have a unique theme for it instead of the same generic music you've been playing after your oneshots?

Most of my info on Hiawatha and Onondaga is from Civilization 6, so for me this is like full circle Extra Credits game learning to Extra History history learning. :)

Evan Phillips

It's really excellent and powerful symbolism regardless.

Amy Reynolds

Can I second that Bill of Responsibilities thing? Sounds like the very best idea...

Amy Reynolds

Oh my gosh this is so cool! I'm glad that the partnership worked out--this is fascinating!

Amy Reynolds

For me this is very interesting. I know very little about native American culture, and Hiawatha is such a huge figure that I have heard the name before, but never knew who he was or what he did. Thanks much for agreeing to do this series for DomiNations. I'm sure it helps them, but it helps me along the way, so... Big Kitty Smiles!! (and never trust a smiling kat...)

Kathyrne

God yes we do. The reform schools alone... ~shudders~ Our treatment of natives is one of the darkest parts of our history up here, and one of the biggest cultural divides. That, and the english/french divide. (And I tried to post this once already, it got eaten. If two posts show up at some point - um - sorry)

Nessf

That's a shame, but such is life i guess.

Myles Barrett

We can't. :( James is traveling for the next solid month (I'm counting PAX as travel, because it takes up as much time as a trip) so he wouldn't have time to research the issue properly, much less write a script* and record it. *I use "script" in the loosest of terms, since when he does on-camera work James usually gives himself notes to work from rather than a full script, but the notes still take nearly as long.

Extra History

We try to have a good mix of school content (so students and teachers can use these) and less-traveled content (so people can discover new history). Always happy when it works!

Extra History

Hmm. I do see the similarities, though I hope the fact that I've written both series doesn't mean I'm subconsciously writing them the same way. I do think their personalities were very different: Mary always struck me as "I'm gonna be me, and screw your limitations" sort of person, while Jigonsaseh seems more inclined to grab the rules directly and pull them with her until they reach a state that she approved of. But she is gonna put a war chief in his place next episode, which I know Mary would have enjoyed.

Extra History

Would you guys possibly consider doing a short James episode on the issue, (or the broader first nations environmental struggle) after the series is done, like your 'palmyra today' episode?

Myles Barrett

Yep, for Early Access ($3+) patrons, it'll be ready by Friday!

Extra History

I've been following that. Obviously we started this series a long time ago, well before that protest coalesced, so I can't claim intentional timing. If coincidental timing helps in any way, though? Fantastic.

Extra History

Excellent timing with this episode. Right now, there's a serious struggle going on in the Dakotas over an oil pipeline that's being built over native land, against the objections of the people living there. If there was ever a time in recent years that the first nations needed visibility, it's now.

Myles Barrett

when you say Saturday for new Garcchi bro do you mean Friday for us patrons who give 5 are more.

schuyler

Jigonsaseh's story actually seems a lot like Mary Seacole. Both care of men no matter who's side of the conflict they were on nor if they could pay. Reincarnation confirmed?

Parker

I know I said this before, but I really like how Extra History goes into those areas not usually covered in USA schools. It's why I don't vote for what comes next, I'll be happy regardless of what it is.

Jason Youngberg

I very much wanted both of those points to come across, so I'm very glad they did! These days you can find full written versions of the Great Law of Peace online and I think it'd be valuable for more people to study. Since researching this piece, I have been thinking a lot about a quote from one of the League council members (I think it was the previous Tadodaho, but I'm not entirely certain) about the US Bill of Rights. He said that if the Haudenosaunee had written a Bill of Rights, they would have also written a Bill of Responsibilities to go with it. I wish the Founding Fathers had.

Extra History

Canada I'm afraid has a lot to answer for regarding the treatment of indigenous peoples in general, and the Haudenosaunee in particular. So does the US. I think it's important to remember, though, that this is not settled, bygone history: the Haudenosaunee survived, they have vibrant communities, and they continue to advocate for themselves to this day. It's not too late for us to listen to them and become the allies that we've so long claimed we are.

Extra History

Thank you guys so much for posting this! I love learning about the histories and cultures of the First Nations, so this is incredibly interesting to me! Plus, I especially love seeing less well known aspects of history covered on Extra Credits. I love how you emphasized how the Great Law of Peace had an influence on the US Constitution and how it, and the Haudenosaunee, are still around today.

Colin

You know, as a French-Canadien.....I feel like a dick for taking lands from these guys during the colonisation....

Irall

I tried but failed to track the original symbolism of the arrows; I couldn't find any good books, and online, I kept running up against websites that simply said these are "Native American" symbols, as though all First Nations shared the same symbolism. Since I often found them referenced in connection with the bundle of five arrows that symbolized the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, though, I decided to trust the one source I found which suggested that these arrows have become a generally accepted symbol of peace or war among the First Nations today. I wish I could have found better sources, though. :P Anyway, the arrows flying against each other do indeed mean war, but the symbolism of the peace arrows is actually that the arrow is broken: it cannot fly anymore, hence, no war.

Extra History

I am only a few minutes into the episode, and already I notice. The arrows. Arrows flying against each other mean war, arrows flying after each other mean peace/alliance? What is the thing with the arrow symbolism, how impotent was arrows as symbols for these people?

KvaGram