Korea: Admiral Yi - IV: Those Who Seek Death Shall Live - Extra History
Added 2015-10-16 15:45:25 +0000 UTCDisaster rips apart the Korean fleet. But as long as he has ANY ships, Yi will defend Korea.
Comments
While your double-checking that for lies, can you also double-check Admiral Togo's quote about admiral yi? I see this quote all the time whenever i look up Admiral yi online but I have yet to find a primary source stating that Admiral Togo said this. It reads as " It may be proper to compare me with Nelson, but not with Korea’s Yi Sun-sin, for he has no equal. (The Imjin War, by Samuel Hawley, pg. 490)" (copied and pasted from wikipedia)
Ki-Young Joannes Jang
2015-10-23 05:12:39 +0000 UTCBenedict Arnold will actually be coming up on his own next month! He came in fourth place during the vote that brought us the First Crusade. Our fourth place finished always come back for a second chance, and that poll's coming up in a few weeks.
Extra History
2015-10-21 21:37:51 +0000 UTCI've just made a note to double-check this for Lies!
Extra History
2015-10-21 21:35:59 +0000 UTCGiven Yi's difficulty, part of me wants to nominate Benedict Arnold to go under the Extra History microscope. But the other part of me has my naval fixation a-going, and wants to relax the year requirements to do the Pacific Theater for WWII. There's even a perfect chapter title for Leyte Gulf: "The World Waits"
Jim McGeehin
2015-10-21 03:42:47 +0000 UTCI hope that you mention this in Lies but the battle of Myeongnyang was the only battle where it was reported that a Japanese Daimyo died in battle in the imjin war. At least, that is what most sources say online. Not sure if you found any primary sources to back this up.
Ki-Young Joannes Jang
2015-10-20 17:00:01 +0000 UTCAlso, I speculate that since the Japanese navy preferred boarding to bombardment, they tried to get in close to the target rather than keep their distance and become vulnerable to the superior Korean cannon range. If the Japanese ships halted, maybe the Korean ships would just fire out them out of Japanese range. In that case putting your full speed at a fleeing ship seemed would seem like the best mode of attack - unless it was leading you into a trap...
Connor Raikes
2015-10-19 01:08:56 +0000 UTCI hope you go into more detail about the Double Agent plot with Yoshira in the Lies section. It seems like in reality it was a lot more elaborate than the apparent stray letter you describe in the episode. I am also curious whether you think that Yi's popularity among the people of Joseon legitimately threatened King Seonjo, particularly after his humiliation from abandoning Seoul and Pyongyang. That's the tragic thing about Yi Sun Shin: the worst thing you can say about him is that he pledged his unfailing loyalty to a corrupt, incompetent and ungrateful government in Joseon. And the only reason we know how absolute his virtue was, is because it was constantly tested by so-called superiors, for whom he would give his life before they respected him with the honors he deserved.
Connor Raikes
2015-10-19 00:55:51 +0000 UTCGIGGITY GIGGITY GOO
Matt Handley
2015-10-18 18:51:24 +0000 UTCArrogance mostly. Japanese commanders often in-fought and while they knew other forces had been defeated, there was no way those pesky Koreans could stand up against the might of a PROPER japanese fleet, right...?
Bjørnar Røsnes Ersdal
2015-10-18 10:54:49 +0000 UTCIt's a miracle at this point Yi's ship is not being sunk under the weight of his massive balls.
Bjørnar Røsnes Ersdal
2015-10-18 10:53:49 +0000 UTCevery time any general sees 1:10 odds in favor not only do the commanders have his men clamouring, but the politicians and bureaucrats as well. Notice how Yi did not pounce on those opportunities himself and suffered consequences.
justin cesar aquino
2015-10-18 02:41:34 +0000 UTCthis guy went through hell more often than any character I've encountered and being betrayed so often. I mean you'd think he's proven his value so often that it is without doubt anymore. Id like to know know how many other warriors get shafted this often?
justin cesar aquino
2015-10-18 02:39:43 +0000 UTCInitially, the battle was 133 Japanese warships against 1 Korean warship. The other 12 Korean warships did not enter the battle until the tide had turned. Also, there were over 200 Japanese transports present; so, as far as the Koreans knew there were over 300 ships attacking them.
barefoot James
2015-10-17 22:04:44 +0000 UTCPrimarily because the Japanese tactics worked against almost every other Korean admiral. Whenever Admiral Yi sent ships out as bait none of them flew his banner; so, the Japanese would follow them thinking they were part of some other admiral's force. Also, in the battle discussed in this episode Admiral Yi advanced against the Japanese alone. The other 12 Korean ships were anchored in a position to watch the battle because the commanders and their men lacked confidence that they could succeed against such an overwhelming force (133 ships vs 13 ships). If you get the opportunity, take a look at the Korean movie, The Admiral: Roaring Currents. It is available with English subtitles.
barefoot James
2015-10-17 21:59:46 +0000 UTCHow come the Japanese keep falling for Yi's traps I understand the last stand at the strait (Yi had a home field advantage) but the Japanese kept falling for the Crane Wing formation over and over again.
Parker
2015-10-17 20:02:00 +0000 UTCI'd have stormed off in a huff myself. Thank heavens Yi didn't!
Extra History
2015-10-17 17:38:38 +0000 UTCDeath and torture were certainly more common. Compared to those, I guess you can say Yi was "spared..." :\
Extra History
2015-10-17 17:38:06 +0000 UTCThanks!
Extra History
2015-10-17 17:36:48 +0000 UTCI think you're right here; we'll have to check on this when we're writing Lies!
Extra History
2015-10-17 17:36:12 +0000 UTCHaha! Well, we're not going into the story of the courts or the land commanders (too much to cover), but there were definitely forces working against him.
Extra History
2015-10-17 17:35:39 +0000 UTCAnd now we see why Admiral Yi is Korea's national hero!
Extra History
2015-10-17 17:35:01 +0000 UTCMost Korean commanders would not have endured this shame, either: they also lived and died on their sense of honor. Most would have, at the very least, retired after the shame of that demotion. Yi, however, continued to serve as a lowly foot soldier - and his new commanders showed him a great deal of respect. They knew what was up.
Extra History
2015-10-17 17:34:24 +0000 UTCWell, they lost the fleet, and history does not look upon them kindly, but were they stripped of their own titles or nobility? Afraid not. The king himself took part in Yi's demotion, which makes it difficult for anyone to point fingers.
Extra History
2015-10-17 17:30:10 +0000 UTCIt's true, although Hamilcar remained nominally loyal to Carthage - even if he did go set up a personal base in Spain, more or less. He certainly instilled in his sons a sense of loyalty to Carthage, and hatred for its enemy, Rome.
Extra History
2015-10-17 17:28:58 +0000 UTCI'll have to double-check, but I think you're right! I know that at least later on, his title was "Naval Commander of the Three Provinces." Not sure if this was the title given to him during this period. But yeah, now that the Chinese armies have arrived, they're going to play a slightly bigger role in the series. Don't expect too much more on the land side of things, though, since this series is much more focused on Yi's naval campaign!
Extra History
2015-10-17 17:27:44 +0000 UTCYeah... not a good place to be. :(
Extra History
2015-10-17 17:24:07 +0000 UTCI looked this up because I didn't know what you were talking about and AHHHH
Extra History
2015-10-17 17:23:37 +0000 UTCNot their finest moments, to be sure. :\ I once asked James if we were going to talk about Ryu Seong-ryong, whose journal we also have, and he just said "That would require an entirely different series." There was a lot going on over there... which I guess is not too surprising, since you don't uproot your entire court and move practically out of the country to escape a conquering invasion force without a whole lotta drama.
Extra History
2015-10-17 17:21:23 +0000 UTCYi was definitely a stand-out military genius. Remember, Korea had been at peace for ages: their commanders, including Yi, hadn't done much more than fend off raiders and had never conducted large scale engagements. We're not talking much about the land battles of the Imjin War, but there were other commanders who put up a good fight against a technologically superior Japanese force. Even so, Yi's mastery of command and strategy despite never having commanded a navy before is nothing short of extraordinary.
Extra History
2015-10-17 17:15:22 +0000 UTCI'm excited that we get to tell stories like this! I hadn't heard of Admiral Yi before James put him on the voting list, and I am absolutely loving his story. -Soraya
Extra History
2015-10-17 17:00:31 +0000 UTCPart of it was what we described at the beginning - the king of Korea at the time was not a good war commander, so he was a bit too easily pulled by around by his advisors. In this case, one of his generals (who bought the Japanese treachery hook, line, and sinker) urged him to seize victory against what they both thought were unprotected Japanese ships. The order to attack came directly from him, which meant that Yi had refused a direct order from his king. It was an impossible situation for everyone, made worse by the fact that - at the time - the court still believed the reports from Japan's double agent, so they also thought Yi had cost them an opportunity to win the war. Perhaps they thought he had let success get to his head - certainly they had to do something about the fact that he disobeyed the king. Or at least, so it seemed to them at the time.
Extra History
2015-10-17 16:58:44 +0000 UTCIn fact, he's sometimes used as an exemplar of Confucian behavior just for this reason!
Extra History
2015-10-17 16:51:01 +0000 UTCConfucianism probably played some role in Yi's incredible tolerance for bullshit. I don't know for sure, but it seems likely.
Robert S
2015-10-17 16:29:36 +0000 UTCTBH I would have told them all to go to hell the second time they demoted me. It says a lot of the character of Yi to suffer humiliation time and time again, and just keep at it
Julian Arce
2015-10-17 16:05:12 +0000 UTCNice Question myob
Tristan Murphy
2015-10-17 14:02:06 +0000 UTCIt's strange, in a way. Yi is quite obviously brilliant, but his brilliance is magnified by the apparent lunacy and idiocy of the folks around him. During the Lies video, could you maybe address this? It seems a little crazy, to be just handwaved away as "enemies in court". Sometimes when a General is too successful, the state fears him winning the way, turning around, and taking over. Is that what happened here? Or was it more like Galileo, who was put under house arrest less because of his theories and more because he was a brash, insulting know-it-all that pissed people off left and right?
myob
2015-10-17 10:38:09 +0000 UTCYou guys... you guys! I honestly can't believe how enthralled I am hearing these incredible stories told by people who care enough about History to really paint them out the way you guys do! Have 5 dollars a month. Just HAVE it. I want nothing more than to ensure you KEEP. DOING. THIS.
Kain K. Martin
2015-10-17 05:10:50 +0000 UTCIt truly is amazing just how much more competent Yi was compared to pretty much everyone else around him. To achieve victory time and again, and only lose to your own government has to take a toll on anyone. And yet he persevered. I hope James talks about what motivated Yi so much in the Lies episode like he did with Hideyoshi vs. Nobunaga vs. Ieyasu.
Russano Greenstripe
2015-10-17 04:57:06 +0000 UTCIt's funny how Yi was beating the Japanese fleets with the same tactic over and over again. And then when the Japanese try an obvious trick to get the entire Korean fleet into a trap, the one guy that doesn't fall for it is reduced to a common foot soldier. Again. And then not even a month later fall for the same trick with the same moron that thought scuttling a fleet was a good idea. I'm actually angry at this vast level of incompetence.
Sean Sarff
2015-10-17 03:40:19 +0000 UTCJust imagine if that was used in the education system, "Sorry, you should have used the 3rd derivative to calculate the Jerk, not the 2nd derivative for acceleration. Kindergarten is that way."
Laura Galm
2015-10-17 03:17:37 +0000 UTCIf that's not THE definition of dedication, i cant imagine what it would be.
BriceB
2015-10-17 02:39:04 +0000 UTCAwesome as always, your Amazingness
Martin Ockovsky
2015-10-16 22:12:06 +0000 UTCAnd that's what happens when your country has known peace for so long: Your court just can't seem to stop stabbing themselves in the back. Hell, I know it's not uncommon for every political party to screw their rivals for personal gain, but they put a LOSER in place of the guy who was so consistently whooping ass he was the only reason the Koreans weren't subjects of Japan. And I know this is only still a slimmed down version of events, but good gods, the fact that it happened at all...
The Cayute
2015-10-16 21:53:32 +0000 UTCMust've been hard for Korea, trapped between two powerful nations vying for dominance of Asia.
Michael Jebbett
2015-10-16 21:22:10 +0000 UTCEvery time I see the drill going into the soldier's head I am reminded of the movie Pi. I should go watch that again.
Luna
2015-10-16 21:01:15 +0000 UTC1:54 Supreme commander of the Korean army? What? Shouldn't it be the navy? Man, I just don't know how to feel about Yi investing so much time and building ships only to have it robbed from him and wasted on a futile battle. Yet he didn't do it for personal glory or achievement, even if he deserved it. He did it out of clear loyalty to his nation and its people. That's quite admirable. Oh, and you finally gave an honorable mention to the Chinese and the righteous armies, thank you for that.
Hung Nguyen
2015-10-16 20:35:20 +0000 UTCI'm remembering when they covered the Punic wars, and Hamilcar Barca felt spurned by everybody. Yet here Yi is time and again being called a traitor, but he still fights for Korea. Just a major contrast is all I'm seeing.
Aaron hutchinson
2015-10-16 19:04:28 +0000 UTCI feel so sorry for Yi demoted again... Again. Did they guys pushing for it ever get what's coming to them. Becouse that's just depressing and stupid sending the one man they need away. And almost destroying themselves. There has to be some kind of retribution for those guys.
noah
2015-10-16 18:59:38 +0000 UTCI recall reading somewhere while researching Bushido for a university essay, about how counter productive the practice of sepuku was. The writer went on to comment on how different history would have been if admiral Yi had committed suicide after getting disgraced and demoted twice. No Japanese commander would endure that shame.
Michael Waisfeld
2015-10-16 18:47:11 +0000 UTCWhenever I get frustrated things aren't going my way, I think I'll watch Yi get stripped of rank over and over, and still kick everyone's ass. That's some major resilience and focus
Jeff DigitalAirAire
2015-10-16 18:05:38 +0000 UTCOnly as an alternative to death, it seems.
Indigo
2015-10-16 17:46:15 +0000 UTCAdmiral Yi; the frustrating story of being the only competent dignitary in the country.
Luknai
2015-10-16 17:22:55 +0000 UTCAdmiral Yi, utter bad ass.
Hasan Mahmood
2015-10-16 17:05:43 +0000 UTCAt about 1:54 you state that Yi was promoted to supreme commander of the Korean army. I believe it is more correct to say supreme commander of the Korean naval forces. All the naval commanders were generals because Korea did not have a navy that was separate from the army.
barefoot James
2015-10-16 17:05:34 +0000 UTCI making people restart from scratch a standard punishment?
Laura Galm
2015-10-16 17:03:18 +0000 UTCi like video
shadowolf
2015-10-16 16:32:44 +0000 UTC
