Vinland Saga 2x15 Reaction Extended (YT link below)
Added 2023-08-04 16:35:36 +0000 UTCIn Vinland Saga 2x15, Storm, the only nice Guest on Slave Island is destroyed by his inability to say no to beautiful women.
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Comments
I've heard of that, but I don't actually know what it's about, I'll definitely be checking it out now :) thanks for the info!
Cheesebit
2023-08-07 23:45:08 +0000 UTCi urge you to read or watch Yukimuras previous body of work called Planetes. That was his first manga and it deals with these themes but Ive heard the messages weren't being received how he wanted it so he wrote Vinland to try to explore these themes better. As for vinland sagas inspirations there are a lot of norse stories that Yukimura took inspiration from. mainly the vinland sagas
Lalo
2023-08-07 23:39:46 +0000 UTCThank you so much!
Cheesebit
2023-08-05 20:55:30 +0000 UTCFeel free to use anything :) It wouldn't surprise me at all if his fascinations with war and violence were at least partly influenced by the bombings. Whatever it was, it's clearly a long-held obsession for him
Alex G
2023-08-05 16:43:15 +0000 UTCI just like calling it Slave Island :D
Alex G
2023-08-05 16:39:18 +0000 UTCI suspect that the "levels of morality" is probably pretty similar across the ages. I think human nature doesn't really change all that much. Society as we know it historically isn't that many generations really... not enough time for any significant genetic change. But while base human nature doesn't change, society changes systemically. Now and then there are big movements or pushes for improvements that are (hopefully) based on deeper perspectives, and that consolidates among people and creates a new, higher baseline (if it goes well). The cynical side of that is that it's not that humans have improved as a whole or that most people really understand or care about the rationale behind the new customs. A lot of it is just indoctrination, i.e. "this is right because it's right." The optimistic side of it is the importance of people like Thorfinn and the fact that deeper understanding CAN actually meaningfully improve things systemically, as evidenced by the comparison between what we imagine the world to have been during Viking times and the world we live in now.
Alex G
2023-08-05 16:37:57 +0000 UTC@Cheesebit Definitely, I think that it is basically impossible to fully comprehend the value of a life. It’s just up to us how fully we can comprehend it or not, even nowadays much of it has to do with social stigma. But as we understand other cultures and other people, it all feels less unknown to us, which makes it less threatening, makes them feel more like people. Even if the people the Vikings pillage may not necessarily be a danger to them, not pillaging them is a danger to their way of life, so they naturally have a level of dissonance. I’d like to think that if every murderer fully comprehended the value of the life they took, they would take it back. But no one can, which is why the Vikings can slaughter a village and be back for dinner with their wife and kids.
Chris Sharpe
2023-08-05 13:18:03 +0000 UTCThere are Danish islands but the farm is on the mainland. It's pretty far south if I recall, to the point of being in modern day Germany.
Darian
2023-08-05 03:26:50 +0000 UTC"Sverkel didn't just die did he?" You know it was really unclear
Nick
2023-08-05 03:03:01 +0000 UTCI agree, I think it's not that people were necessarily less moral, but more they lived in a time where more violence existed and thus you needed to do some things that today might be considered horrible, just to survive. Doing the best you can with the circumstances you can, and like you said, those split second decisions define our survival. We don't have time to worry about the ethics of it when in a time crunch. Also on the topic of evil always finding a way, I think of the saying there's no light without darkness. Just as there is no good without evil. I think basically, you just can't have good without evil because if, for example, no one ever did "bad" things, there would be no "good" things. Things would simply just be. Without both, there would be no reason for words to exist to differentiate what is considered good and what is considered bad. It's also like how if human history hadn't witnessed the great evils and atrocities (think like, when you read those crime cases and what happened to the victim, and how the perpetrator does such horrible things that you couldn't even create in your mind if you were to think what you consider evil, if that makes sense) , we might not see certain acts as amazing as we see them because of the fact that we've seen the darker side of humanity.
Cheesebit
2023-08-05 01:32:51 +0000 UTC@A Goodwin TV I think that is extremely interesting, with how evil always finds a way. I think the reason why humans have the same level of evil throughout history, but commit varying levels of evil acts has to do with safety and knowledge. Obviously when we are in danger, we are less inclined to trust something and want to keep it from being a danger. Sort of like Einar said, it’s almost impossible to be able to maintain a peaceful life without fighting other threats. We don’t have time for complex thinking and have to do snap judgements on something’s danger level if we live in a dangerous world. Doesn’t need to be physical danger, but danger of ideals. It’s common knowledge that understanding something generally makes us less scared of that, so the loss of ignorance makes us more compassionate. It’s hard to totally understand a life’s worth to it’s core. When we kick a rock, it’s not a bad thing, but if we kick a puppy, that is something very horrible. A sociopath would pretty much see everything as a rock due an inability to feel empathy. If our feelings of puppies are closer to that of a rock than to what they are actually worth, than we don’t feel as bad if we kick a bunch of puppies. The same level of malice, just more puppies kicked. A lot of people seem to think that certain generations or different times in the past had less moral people than now, but I don’t think that’s the case.
Chris Sharpe
2023-08-05 01:00:35 +0000 UTCImagine getting your throat bitten off and you can’t even scream for help, that’s so terrifying 💀
Cheesebit
2023-08-05 00:35:15 +0000 UTCIf I remember correctly , it’s in Denmark right?
Cheesebit
2023-08-05 00:34:16 +0000 UTCI'd love to get into the mind of Yukimura, he's such a fascinating person. Actually, I'm currently working on a philosophy final research paper, and because of vinland saga and some personal stories from war veterans I know, I've been compelled to write on the topic of violence in relation to war specifically. This show really has got me thinking a lot on this topic. My paper is on whether violence in war is justified, or not. Which of course like many ethical problems, there's no clear definitive answer. I actually really like the comment in this reaction about how the more prevalent smth is, the more necessary it is to use yourself. (If goodwin doesn't mind, I'd love to use that quote for one side of the argument in my paper). Also I've always wondered what inspired yukimura to write this story. From a quick Google search, it seems he was inspired by King Olaf of Norway, but I wonder where his moral and ethical views of violence came from? Since he mentioned bombings in wars in his tweet for this episode, I wonder if somehow part of it is in relatio to the bombings in japan. Although he may not have been directly impacted by it, his parents and grandparents must've been alive during the time of the bombings, so I wonder if hearing to horror stories of those events somewhat impacted his views on violence. Perhaps also because he seems well versed and educated in history, he's gotten a comprehensive view of what wars do to people.
Cheesebit
2023-08-05 00:32:06 +0000 UTCAlso I dont think Ketil’s farm is on an island
coolkidsboi134
2023-08-04 21:38:53 +0000 UTC"im glad he survived it doesnt seem halfway bad" next frame is blood spewing out and a massive chunk out of bro's neck. you were saying? lol
Why It
2023-08-04 19:29:38 +0000 UTCI would add that I don't know if it's fair to say Gardar was being selfish. Gotta remind yourself they are both slaves completely involuntarily. While yeah, it could be worse for her in some ways, she was literally forced by Ketil to have his child, and Gardar doesn't even know that yet. So it's not really a stretch for Gardar to assume she wants to be free as well, and in his mind he is her only hope out. It would be mean being a fugitive, but with what he has went through as a slave it's probably the far better option to him.
CastSenpai
2023-08-04 18:30:24 +0000 UTCYeah this was one of my favorite episodes of the season of great episodes
Alex G
2023-08-04 18:22:26 +0000 UTCHas to be one of the most underrated episodes of the season. The entire scene of Arheid speaking with Gardar while he was tied was art. Certain episodes are brought up when talking about this season and this 100% should be one of them imo
CastSenpai
2023-08-04 18:19:42 +0000 UTCI'm glad 😂 It's really tough to know the right balance. On the one hand, I think the perspective gets a lot more optimistic if you zoom out. I'd much rather be born now into a random life than in the time of Vinland Saga, for example. Then again, danger is real, evil does exist, and even on an uptrend there can be pockets of disaster, so it's important not to be too rose colored about the world and to pay attention.
Alex G
2023-08-04 18:13:16 +0000 UTC@Goodwin Random tangent. I am admittedly quite the cynic(unfortunately) and I feel like I can't ever change that about myself, but I do love and appreciate your commentary and emphasis more so on the pockets of hope and optimism about the world and it's people rather than ruminating on a bleak future (as I do). Still think the world is slowly burning and crumbling, but I'd atleast like a little bit of optimism to course through my veins through the osmosis of your content.
Bighead
2023-08-04 18:11:00 +0000 UTCI’ll have more to say once I’m off work and can watch your reaction (also need to catch up with the HQ ones yesterday) but you can tell what mindset he’s in each week when he does these. It’s actually fascinating reading all them back to back. He never has a straight forward answer and I think that’s perfectly reflected in how he wrote Einar and Thorfinn’s conversation this episode. Like I said I’ll have more to say when I watch this and get a feel of what you thought of the episode, but I agree this one is a darker one. He’s tackling a incredibly difficult topic that never has a real answer so no wonder he feels downcast sometimes. Plus where we are in the manga right now.. yeah I can see why he’s struggling with the ‘way of the world’. I guess that’s the best way of putting it.
Sacha
2023-08-04 17:57:31 +0000 UTCTotal paradise
Alex G
2023-08-04 17:48:40 +0000 UTCThorfinn: it's a place without war and slavery, it'll be great cut to 500 years later 😬
Musicisum
2023-08-04 17:47:02 +0000 UTC<3 Love these reactions
Sam B
2023-08-04 17:45:19 +0000 UTCThis feels like an especially dark one. The state of the world doesn't feel that bleak to me, but perhaps he was just having a moment. I was thinking after watching this episode and the next that... while evil is still probably every bit as present in the hearts of man as it ever was, we gradually get better at de-incentivizing and eliminating the use of the kind of force that's so central to the "warriors" in Vinland Saga. There's no utopia on earth, so there's no actual perfect "Vinland," but I think humanity has done a pretty damn amazing job considering the size of the task at creating places where a relative state of peace can exist without fear of a band of killers wandering in to burn your house and steal your women. It could easily NOT be that way, and I suspect it is as good as it is because of individuals like the one Thorfinn aspires to be :)
Alex G
2023-08-04 17:37:13 +0000 UTCYukimura Twitter thread for 2x15 “Good morning! Sunny in Tokyo. Thank you for watching Vinland Saga episode 15 ‘Storm’ last night! The cast at the end credits is interesting when the guests appear. Snake, Spider, Fox,Badger, Rat etc. It’s an animal farm. I’m scared of Gardar as he watches the guest die. How can I say it, even when I examine the materials, I feel the warriors have no hesitation when they cut off the lives of others. At the same time slaughter comes to mind. During this time Europeans routinely slaughtered livestocks for food (I think this is just a translation thing as .. well … that’s no different from now. I think he means an individual would go off hunting for food for the meal that day because of what he goes on to write) To be honest, killing a mammal close to human size scares me. What would I do if my family says “Papa, please kill one for dinner.” It’s impossible. That’s what they did. Medieval European men. I wonder if there’s a connection between the experience of killing large creatures on a daily basis and the qualities of a warrior. Thorfinn! Finally! You said the word Vinland! I’m glad it’s Vinland Saga, so I have to think about Vinland. It was a time when there was still undeveloped land on earth. I could think, “Somewhere but not here.” Unfortunately that is not the case nowadays. In some countries, the head of state drops bombs on people’s homes. There are countries where you go to jail if you dissent to the government’s methods, and there are countries military personnel who lose elections seize power in a coup d’état. If you can escape from such a country. I think it would be better, but there is really nowhere to escape to. Hosting millions of refugees is hard. Not realistic. However, if we live in a world where people can freely escape from violence and war, I think it would exciting. I want to see a tyrant sitting alone on a pilotless fighter plane in an empty desert. Our country does not accept refugees at all. It’s embarrassing. I’m sorry. I hope it changes. If it continues like this, when we become refugees someday, no one will accept us. I don’t think the act of running away is ever easy. I don’t think fighting is always the best choice. What to do when the head of state goes crazy, when there is great violence? There is no Vinland in modern time. Then do we have to fight? I don’t want to fight. What should we do? That’s all I’m thinking about.”
Sacha
2023-08-04 17:16:31 +0000 UTC
