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My Hero Academia 6x4 Reaction Extended (YT link below)

In MHA 6x4, the heroes are winning but still feels like we're losing somehow.

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Streamable Link:

https://streamable.com/84lzrd


YouTube Link:

https://youtu.be/0qiujlRT_yg

My Hero Academia 6x4 Reaction Extended (YT link below)

Comments

I don't generally comment, much less on older videos, but there's just so many good points on both sides that I can't really help it, lol. Here are my thoughts and I hope they make sense (and are relevant?) First, let's look at the circumstances surrounding Hawks: - He was sent to infiltrate the League to prevent another Kamino-Level disaste and in 2-3 months since he's been there, he has succeeded in gaining the information necessary to prevent the League from destroying society with the unintended consequence of the knowing that his target, Twice, is a good person. - The current mission to stop them is unprecedented, both in scale and in the potential for disaster IF it fails. We know this because the HPSC has requested the aid of not only a huge number of Pro Heroes, but also the aid of Heroes in Training/students/children as Plan B. - Therefore, the stakes for a successful mission are raised even higher than normal, which subsequently raises the necessity of preventing Shigaraki from Waking Up and Twice from Using His Quirk to Level the Playing Field to the top two priorities for the heroes. - Essentially, he has to weigh eliminating the very real threat that Twice is on the battlefield (and to the mission's success) against his wish to save Twice Now let's look at the circumstances surrounding Twice: - The League are the only people that have embraced Jin wholly, without rejecting any of him, regardless of the decisions he's made that have negatively impacted them as a group. - Not only has Hawks betrayed him, he has also once again allowed someone to take advantage of him and bring about harm to his friends. - At that point, all Jin sees is that the system (and heroes in general) have once again failed him. It reinforces his worldview that society doesn't deem him as someone worthy of being saved, so he embraces TWICE and everything that he has come to have through him over any possible future that JIN could have on his own. From these circumstances, we see that Hawks represents everything hero society expects from it's Heroes while Twice acts as his parallel for the Villain's side. I like to think of them as the "end points" for their respective sides, as they're both the epitome of what they are all fighting for/against. Now, the fact the we see it happen through the VILLAIN'S eyes is important. The directing choices that paint Hawks in what we've come to know as VILLAINOUS traits serve to show us what Twice (and arguably Dabi) see him as. This deliberately negative portrayal makes it easier to see Hawks killing Twice as a morally bad decision. Not only does it go against everything we've seen through the eyes of the students, it also goes against the ideals that we have seen throughout the course of the show through Deku and All Might. But while this decision can be morally wrong (depending on an individual's view of morality), does it automatically make it ethically wrong? Well, the answer depends on which ethical framework you choose to look through while also taking into consideration the context of the character's circumstances. With the title of the previous episode being "One's Justice"...... Well, it's hard not to see it through that lens, so I will. With this decision, Hawks is basically forced to face a contradiction between his morals and his sense of justice. He knows that killing Twice is morally wrong because as a hero, he wants to (and should) save him. At the same time, he feels that he must kill Twice (who has chosen to foresake himself to save his friends and will stop at nothing to accomplish this goal) to prevent the destruction of the hero society that serves as the foundation of his sense of justice. His choice is also buried under multiple layers of tragedy: - We know that Hawks' later assumption is right because we know how powerful a person's will can be and Twice himself later confirms it by brutally killing the hero that had captured Toga and Compress as his final act before death. - Twice is someone that at some point COULD have been saved and that morally SHOULD have been saved. But, based on Twice's final words, he is also someone that DIDN'T want to be "saved" In the end, both of them see their actions as the ONLY choice because it protects what they have deemed as most important. For Hawks, it's an ethically good/morally bad choice that protects hero society through murder, while for Twice it's a morally good/ethically bad choice that protects his friends through murder. And it's the fact that this outcome is practically inevitable that ultimately makes it so wrong. It brings hero society itself into question because it has essential created an extremely narrow lense for BOTH Heroes and Villains to see their world through. For Heroes, this lense ends up limiting the actions they have available to them when saving people because it seemingly leads them more towards the ethical choice for the "benefit of society" or whatever. And for the Villains, it basically removes reformation as an alternate path to villainy because there is no benefit that comes from chosing the society that has already failed them, so there is no desire to do so, even when the opportunity presents itself.

Beta Trix

“Mushroom Girl showed a lot of restraint, not murdering everyone,” “It’s just a scratch, it’s just a scratch,” “He’s like the harbinger of armageddon,” Shiggy: Where am I? Goodwin: HANDS. Hands World,”

Geneva The Weeba

Def doesn't feel like My Hero "Academia" right now, does it? I feel like there's a disconnect somewhere, like, we get introduced to this world via the kids who strive towards this ideal of a hero, and they can afford that purity because it is peace time. But I don't believe that has always been the reality for the adult pros, or if it was during the peace, it increasingly no longer is, since the rise of the LoV disruppted it. I imagine Hawks on a personal level feels like he failed for resorting to murder, but I don't think it's actually this big taboo, they've been killing Nomu left and right after all, and we know those used to be humans... Def also feels like Miruko was going for the kill with Shigaraki there... Part of me dearly misses the old days of running through these halls, but I guess it was unavoidable that the story would go in this direction. (Also, kudos to you for making me laugh amidst all the craziness, when you where like "well, I guess Mic IS running through hallways...)

kingafreund

Obviously, I agree for the most part, but what I take as Goodwin's most important counterargument to that is that we don't KNOW for sure what the future is, or what would be "better," and if everyone always acted as if they knew for sure, then it's easy for people to say, "you HAVE to do this or the results will EVENTUALLY be catastrophic for the whole world." If everything is on the verge of an apocalypse all the time and the threat is perceived to be severe enough, we can scare people into doing ANYTHING. In fact, there's an incentive for unsavory people to put people in danger on purpose--to put more people on those trolley tracks--just to force other people to pull the lever for them. It's definitely not something we can just say uncritically.

Ryan

My take is that at some point the cost of idealism becomes too great to cling to. Like if I were in the trolley problem I would probably not pull the lever, letting 1 more person die in the process, because I can't stomach to involve myself. But you stick 100 people to the first track and you best believe I'm going to pull that lever without hesitation, sorry dude. I don't know if that just makes me a hypocrite or what but in Hawks' case? No hesitation, Twice needed to be neutralized, and he did offer him an olive branch. Ideally you take his tragedy to heart and try to do better in the future, don't let his death be in vain and all, but no way do I think Hawks messed up by killing him. We're talking eventual world ending calamity if he's able to start duping en masse and the villains win in a landslide.

Miguel

Glad I'm not the only one who thought this version hit so much harder. I LOVE Eric Vale's Shigaraki.

Miguel

I'm grateful for your thoughts, and I very much share your skepticism of "greater good" arguments. I started out saying that I disagreed, but I'm actually not sure if it's that cut and dry at all... I had never considered until you wrote it there that maybe Twice's name is a play on "genes" as in DNA, but Twice's name in Japanese is Jin Bubaigawara. Last name, 分倍河原, means "divide multiply riverbed." His first name, 仁, "Jin" works--appropriately enough--in two ways at once: you can break down the character 仁 into 人+二 (person + two), but then, tragically, the meaning of the character 仁 as a whole is "benevolence."

Ryan

There is this great blog post I read about Aizawa's character. I wish I could share it here but unfortunately it has one spoiler panel from the manga in it. Maybe it can be shared later. I've read a lot of great posts about a couple characters and I've really come to enjoy Hori's more subtle storytelling throughout the story

Kayla

That's fair. I kinda forgot more about the vigilante aspect of Iida's arc.

Kayla

Very interesting thread. It's a difficult topic because there's so much to touch on and there's a lot that's true at once. Hero society is flawed. Killing Twice is tragic for Gene (Jin?), his friends, and Hawks who wanted to save him. Twice posed one of the biggest threats to the world we've seen so far in this show. Ideals are great but only if you can actually defend them or stomach the consequences of living up to your ideals without the ability to protect the things you care about. Yet I can't shake the feeling that what Hawks did was wrong, and I think it might come down to a few things: - It's not necessarily the fact that Twice died that I'm evaluating. It's been pointed out to me that All Might believed he killed All for One and everyone was cool about that. I think it's the fact that he deliberately stabbed him in the back. At that point, all thoughts of incapacitating Twice were gone, and it was a straight-up murder. It's the giving up and resorting to something that he felt terrible doing because it was "for the greater good" that seems to me to be most in conflict with the more powerful ideas that have been presented in the show about always seeing the potential in people and taking the burden of solving problems onto your shoulders as much as possible. - About the greater good, this is probably my most controversial or unsatisfying point across a handful of shows (AOT for example) but I always get a bad taste in my mouth about it because... even if it feels clear what the outcome will be it's not necessarily clear a) what the actual outcome will be or b) if it is truly for the greater good ESPECIALLY when you consider decisions across ALL TIME. I personally believe that the best chance to the greater good is to individually focus on doing what feels right as much as possible, speaking the truth, going as far as possible to do one's best, not crossing lines that feel evil, etc. - This is a show about ideals, and I don't think it's just an exploration of concepts, I think there's something about high ideals that contain truth about how to live, even if those ideals are nearly impossible to adhere to in real life. But nevertheless ideals are important to aim at and judging Hawks based on the ideals that the show has presented so far, it falls way short. Hawks himself, I'm guessing, will carry a lot of guilt and self-hatred about this decision for as long as he lives. He would acknowledge it as a failure. And that's probably because it IS a failure to live up to what he considers to be the highest ideal. And I'm pretty sure this will come up again and a different character will handle it better. So for the show and it's direction, this is a very dark and questionable step.

Alex G

I'm still surrpised to hear that MHA has had that reaction from some people. The show has taken a dark turn but I have some faith in my vision of the show that this is going to be a way to test and strengthen the light in the form of a challenge, as opposed to a change in thematic direction.

Alex G

Without knowing what's to come, I think the difference would probably be both the amount of restraint they're capable of, and the fact that they're in this building as part of an existing mission (not acting as vigilantes). Iida IIRC was out for blood

Alex G

Thank you for the added context as always, Ryan! That definitely makes me appreciate the translated English lines even more, since they seemingly nailed the “see me as I am/rejecting who I am” sentiment far better than the subtitled translations did.

Jake White

It’s really just the trolley problem except the really strong and deadly ‘villains’ are the trolley lol. So in a situation that’s basically terrible no matter what choice you make, it’s only natural to choose destroying the trolley rather than watching it run over dozens or hundreds of other people.

Jake White

@BirthdayParty I think that's the point of the show. We're way past the morally right and wrong stage. I don't think anyone thinks "heroes" killing the "villains" is morally right. It's just a necessity at this stage. And while I do agree that the villains are a victim of the society failing them, that in no way justifies their actions in the slightest.

Bighead

Very good points, and I will be the first to say that what Hawks did is definitely not "morally good." I think it was (also morally) necessary. The only thing I disagree on is this focus on "Hero Society." How did heroes specifically fail Bubaigawara? Society did. They like to blame heroes as if heroes were somehow responsible for cleansing society of its own moral failings, but it's average taxpayers and the justice system that failed Bubaigawara. Blaming heroes or the hero commission for that is like blaming firefighters for not controlling a forest fire caused by wilful negligence. And yet, Deku's society naturally does just that because heroes are held up as paragons of unblemished virtue, as if it's their responsibility to cleanse society of its own sins. I think you're right in saying the whole system is built on that premise. I just think that's a destructive house of cards.

Ryan

And to counter your point about "needing to give up the notion that heroes don't kill" to get a more stable foundation, consider this. What happens if the government publicly admits that heroes have full authority to kill villains and that the "no killing" ground of moral high-ground is a sham. You're left with a bunch of super-powered mercenaries, with minimal supervision from the government, that are essentially quasi-celebrities, that are paid per their competence in enforcing the country's quirk laws. That have the license to kill based on their assessment of the situation. And probably can't be punished beyond, say, losing their hero license. The only reason heroes are seen in a positive light by the public is precisely because of their idealism and good PR. Without that, they aren't "heroes". They're government-paid private security. Unfortunately, the moral absolutism of heroes is precisely the foundation that Hero Society is built upon. You can't get rid of it without up-ending the whole system. Which further emphasizes the hypocrisy of the Hero Commission.

BirthdayParty

That's the problem though. First of all, the problem isn't just with killing. Endeavor has killed Noumu on screen. The issue here is that Twice is ultimately a victim that Hero Society has created. His descent into villainy began when he accidentally hit someone with a motorbike and caused a broken arm, because he had the misfortune to just happen to do this to the wrong person, he gets fired and evicted with nowhere else to go. Perhaps if the government actually supported victims or orphans of villain attacks instead of picking and choosing people to "save" based on their quirks (Like Hawks), he could've had an actual support system that wouldn't rely on the goodwill of one single person. And then there's the point about transparency and honesty. Do you think the government would ever reveal that Hawks killed Twice? Of course not, because that would be another blow to the public's already shaky belief in heroes. The Hero Commission is actively upholding the squeaky clean image of heroism because it's helpful to keep the peace. While actively disregarding it whenever it becomes inconvenient. And with that information alone, it's easy to see why Hero Society has been slowly rotting and creating people like Shigaraki and Twice. And there's the problem with Hawks' actual approach. He essentially took advantage of someone with a mental illness, betrayed their trust, and then told him that he's going to try to "redeem him" because he believes Twice is a good person. It's very much, to borrow your words, pseudo-grandstanding moralism. In what world would Twice *not* fight to the death after hearing that? And I believe Hawks had nothing but good intentions for saying that and his actions. I think he genuinely became friends with Twice. So why did he fail so badly? Because Hero Society, and by extension Hawks, have been trained to defeat villains, not save them. TLDR; Hawks killing Twice is bad because it emphasizes the hypocrisy and deception the government must engage in to simply maintain the status-quo. A status -quo in which people like Hawks essentially are owned by the government, and where people like Himiko, Shigaraki and Twice regularly fall through the cracks through no fault of their own.

BirthdayParty

@Hofitel: I think that was well said. :)

Ryan

I fear I won’t be articulate enough to get my point across, but I think it’s worth a shot. I believe in the ideals that no one should be killed, no matter how evil they are. Everyone deserves a chance at redemption. We’ve seen the show address this several times. (ex. Gentle Criminal, Bakugo, Endeavor) But I also accept that this is highly idealistic. This is only possible if the world is shaped into one that supports this ideal. In the current world of MHA, we have this exact conflict. MHA follows our main character, Deku, who’s whole purpose is to save others even at the expense of self. He would have probably tried to stop Twice without killing him. But Deku lives in a world where people don’t have the luxury to avoid killing at all costs. They lived in a flawed hero society where instead of redemption, people are abused, ignored, and forgotten. It’s a world where people don’t think, how can I save this person? Rather, the dominant thought is that someone else will come along and do it. This is what drives our main villains – the rejection of this kind of world. The problem is, what they offer as an alternative, anarchy, is not better. Deku’s ideals are impossible it that world, of course. And now that all-out war has basically broken out, keeping Deku’s ideals become even more difficult in the present. The world, as it is now, is a world where in order to save the many, the few, like Twice must die. If Deku, and others like him, want to turn their ideals into reality, it is not enough to just put a stop to the villains. That just maintains the status quo. That would not save people, even if they didn’t kill anyone. The current structure of hero society must change or else we will keep having more Twices and more Hawks. TLDR: I mostly agree with your point.

Hofitel

You got me with that one lmfao

benj

What are they going to do? Kill me? 😉

Ryan

You disagree with Batman and Goodwin himself... think about what you have done. /s

benj

I agree. When watching people react to the sub I was like "Damn that scene doesn't hit the same with those words changed"

benj

Absolutely! And great line delivery on the VAs part, as well

Jake White

This is one of those few instances when I think I disagree with Goodwin's take on the morals at hand, which very probably means I'm quite wrong, but... I don't see the absolute Batman-style prohibition on killing as morally pure or superior. If Hawks had let Jin live knowing that giving up this chance would likely mean the death of thousands, all just because he couldn't deal with blood on his hands in what one side has openly declared to be a war, that would be pseudo-moral grandstanding on another level for me. I empathize with the sentiment, and obviously, in almost all circumstances, I think murder is heinous, but I think absolutism is even more dangerous. If what the heroes "lost" in terms of the moral battle was some pretense to a highground of purity that rested on the notion that they just don't kill, then I think it's important in the long run to give that up as soon as possible and find a foundation that's worth standing on instead.

Ryan

Good translators. [Edit: for context, the original Japanese is very different than that English, but they focused instead on capturing the spirit of the text, which is 1000% more important. The original Japanese was just "mou hitei suru na. ... ore o hitei suru na." --> The first sentence doesn't say what we're "hitei suru"-ing. It just says "don't deny [something unspoken] anymore." It sounds like "don't stand in the way of my desire for power." Then the second sentence clarifies what Shigaraki thinks they're denying, and it's "ore (o)": who I (really) am. It's not that they're rejecting the power, or his quirk, or his pain, or his goals. Shigaraki thinks they're rejecting who he is.]

Ryan

Man ngl, Shiggy’s dub voice kinda made that final scene even better IMO. The sub line I’m pretty sure just repeated “don’t reject me anymore” twice at the end. But the way his dub va said “you will see me as. I. am. I’m done being rejected.....done” gave me chills tbh

Jake White

@jake Yeah lol I was screaming at my TV during that scene telling X-Less to just fucking destroy Shigaraki's body with laser beams everywhere until theres nothing left. Too bad this is a TV show and the main villain has to have his day in battle.

benj

I would agree that the main motivation is to stop Shigaraki and save as many people as possible. I still feel like most of the time when we are given a glimpse at their thoughts it's about the revenge though. I feel like there is something to that. I feel like Aizawa in particular is partially blinded by this. It's kinda harder to explain without mentioning other stuff that comes later

Kayla

I really appreciate the way you talked about how hawks killing twice would affect the themes of the story. It’s such a big deal and I think boiling it down to just the logistics of if it were real life does the story a great disservice tbh. I can’t even begin to tell you what it was like when these chapters were released and that was all so many people focused on. It got very frustrating very quickly lol. I didn’t think about it until you mentioned it but I also would’ve loved to see twice meet deku and how that would’ve gone down. He would’ve definitely had a different approach than hawks lol. My favorite thing this episode though was dabi telling hawks who he really is. In the manga it was a blacked out speech bubble and everyone lost their minds trying to figure out what he said. I’m really glad to see that we’re finally getting to the dabi focus bc he’s so much more of a background character at first in the league despite the fact that he’s got (or used to have before shigaraki got upgraded) the most raw power out of them. He’s by and large my favorite character in the entire series so I’m interested to see what you really think of him going foreward.

Winnie

@chris sharpe Without spoiling anything, I’m up to date with the manga and there’s never been a character in MHA’s story that could survive having their brains destroyed. Not even high end Nomus with super regeneration could come back from it (like Hood that Endeavor destroyed). So I think it’s pretty safe to say that X-Less could have ended him if he lasered out his brains before he ever woke up

Jake White

I feel like it’s not their primary goal but they still want to get revenge, I think their primary goal is still to stop Shigaraki from killing everyone but the revenge part is still one of their goals

Jabez Katsak

Animation has had such an upgrade this season compared to last. Every episode so far has had incredible pencil sketches and dynamic action scenes showcasing multiple hero's quirks in full detail and movement. Its fucking amazing.

benj

Can we not talk about future episodes here? I'm still waiting for dub uploads because I am too attached to the voices for those characters. I know thats rich coming from me who constantly shits on dubs but I only chose to go with the English because Goodwin did and wanted to experience it the same way, also because its actually a really good dub. (I can still admit the sub is better though, Bakugo VA is goated)

benj

Peak Anime right here folks, best show coming out this season easily. Thank you studio Bones for not forgetting about this incredible show. I really hope the discourse around the series can become more positive considering the last 2-3 years of MHA online talk has been purely negative with every person in existence pitching in to talk about how much they hate this show and its characters. Your channel since the very beginning of MHA has been a place of positivity and praise for this incredible wholesome optimistic show. Now we are transitioning into a stage of pain and despair for the Hero's and Villain's. Things are getting serious, things are getting violent, the stakes have been raised. For me, this arc/war truly feels like it was being setup all the way back from the first season, everything that has occured so far has led up to this season, this battle. I love how quickly the MHA fans on here have returned to the comments and full length reactions, these uploads are getting more patreon views than MP100, Spy x Family, Haikyuu, Violet Evergarden, etc. etc. This is a true MHA fanbase center for people who actually adore and appreciate this show for what is it, and I love it. Thank you for creating this space for the few true MHA appreciaters left to enjoy and talk about the series.

benj

All For Shigaraki is now here.

PrinceofDarkness18

Would it be fair to say that Aizawa and Mic's primary motivation is revenge? If so, is that much different than when Iida went after Stain?

Kayla

The scene with Shigaraki’s family holding him back, with their hands in the same places as his attachable hands were, that was simply amazing and chilling.

Chris Sharpe

Man Shigaraki is the scariest villain to ever exist in My Hero. Not only can he now take and steal quirks with All for One but he has his insane Decay ability. He's truly a monster now.

Skyler Anderson

I love how much subtle visual storytelling is in the dream sequence. One example being the path that Shigaraki takes to reach AFO is the same ground as when AFO reaches out to him for the first time as a child

Kayla

I do love how Dabi frames it as a "singular obsession". It's how they're both reflected - Hawks became #2 hero over what Dabi perceives as a "singular obsession" over Endeavor. Whereas Dabi's dream was driven by his own singular obsession :)

Muchymozzarella

Now that we end the episode with X-Less right beside Shigaraki when he wakes up did you notice the colour of X-Less’ cape? Where have we seen that coloured cape in the intro and outdo? 😰 Honestly I am soo impressed with the animation team this season. With lil added anime original moments and lots of great directional adaption choices it’s fully living up to the hype that us manga readers went through week to week when this arc was coming out. Just a really good job all round!

Sacha

Despite knowing nothing about the upcoming episodes, I've already begun to make my peace with X-less' death.

Alex G

Mhm true, but then again that wouldn’t make for much plot hahaahaha. Reminds me of how Snipe could have prevented this entire fiasco if he had just shot Shiggy in the head instead of his arms and legs LOL

Nat

I mean tbh, he could’ve just lasered out Shiggy’s brain and called this whole thing a day if this were a SUPER dark series and he didn’t take his time worrying about what the machine was instead lol. but it’s an insane ass moment where I’m sure each second by second decision is incredibly difficult and hard to predict so I ain’t blamin him too hard 🤷‍♂️

Jake White

Mirko did the right thing. Shiggy would've been woken up in a more natural way with the tank and that would've been worse.

Miguel

Yessiirrrrr. In simplest terms, this is no longer the MCU. We’re in the DCEU now, just y’know like a really good version lol. MHA isn’t your friendly neighborhood kids superhero show anymore, it’s closer to a horror now for at least a few episodes lol

Jake White

Nah man, X-less is definitely going to 1v1 Shiggy and win

Nat

You better brace yourself Goodwin, cause this war is about to take a real turn next episode…

Matthew Richson


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