Star Trek TNG 5x17 Full Reaction!
Added 2026-02-14 18:00:10 +0000 UTC
Comments
A few years ago I pranked OGB Reacts into watching The Heiress on Valentine's Day. Ever since I've stuck to just movies for Black History Month, which this year is Putney Swope. Really great reaction that one provoked. The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina is pretty crappy overall, but it really nails one specific subplot where one of Sabrina's friends seems just a tad butch in the first season (in one episode dressing more feminine as a sign of trauma), but then comes out as trans in the next one. And there's one scene where Sabrina accidentally deadnames him just because they've known each other their whole lives and she's so used to it, then immediately realizes and apologizes, but he's perfectly fine with her needing an adjustment period. There was talk a while back about doing a 9 to 5 sequel, but sadly that seems to have been ended after Dabney's death, because what would be the point? It would have been neat to see Frank have the Bruce Maddox arc of the experience causing him to do some long and hard thinking and realize how wrong he was, and be on their side against some other sexist ass. And I had a big involuntary laugh going through the Best Adapted Screenplay winners to see he and Jane immediately followed it by playing an engaged couple. Levar had reportedly been wanting to grow a beard for a while but the crew were leery of it not fitting his characterization, whatever that means. This was when he finally wore them down enough to do it. And of course these days he has a very nice Worf-style silver beard. My big challenge to anyone not totally against conversion therapy is to look up what Glenn Shadix's parents put him through. Amazing that he came out the other side of that able to have a pretty successful career that fully leaned into his proudly campy vibe.
Ryan
2026-02-15 14:46:33 +0000 UTCDefinitely an episode, as we’re both saying, you try to remind yourself when it’s made and when it came out, and you try to offer a pass on the dated awareness, yet even then it only goes so far. And yeah, no doubt that everyone involved only had good intentions, and it makes the result hurt as it does. Priscilla is yet another film that I do need to refamiliarize myself with. One of my theatre professors in college brought it up in response to Terrence Stamp’s death, and how he loved Terrence’s work in that. Still hasn’t aged like nitroglycerin as badly as Ace Ventura in the same year, as I recall. Which that’s one I point to when I saw it a decade after its release, thinking it was already feeling very mean spirited, and as the years go by, it just gets worse and worse and worse. My brother was in high school in 2002, and I started sixth grade that year, so we can aver about that infamous line, which I do love the memes of Bonesaw replying, “You’re on the wrong side of history, Spider-Man.” The general idea of what they’re going for with the agender planet is very bold. They do trip, as you say with presenting the idea that sexuality and gender identity being one in the same. Reminds me when my mom asked about specifics about someone being non-binary; I noted that there is a difference. I do get the reluctance about Gaiman initially given the writing for Wanda. Worf gets the shit end of the stick being made the strawman. Sweet of Beverly to be as kind as she is. I was under the impression that she did mean that it hasn’t been true for a long time that people had the viewpoint that women are weaker. Listening to the audio again in the reaction, I note, “Yeah, that is rather poorly phrased, now you mention it.” I likewise didn’t quite notice the Dr. Evil style line delivery, and that too stood out hearing it in the reaction. Can’t really improve on how you speak of this suffering from such the heteronormative lens of the nineties that this has. I do love how Jonathan did try to get a man for Soren, and how he’s vocally on record with being displeased about that part of this. I’m afraid you’ve lost me on Olivia’s Oscar; haven’t heard anything recently about that one. Can’t really improve on what you say about the ending. We both do love how Jess did try to have the positive assessment, much though this is one where we do say, “Shaka, when the walls fell.” Thankfully, barring anything I’m forgetting: we are now past the worst of the dated stuff, and the rest of this season is terrific. Getting excited to revisit the one that’s borderline tied with Déjà Q for being my favorite within the next few weeks. Very eager to hear what you, Jess, and everyone else has to say about it.
Thomas Corp
2026-02-15 08:27:43 +0000 UTCAddressing the coincidence of it being Valentine’s Day, and the timing of a Star Trek love story. Yeah, well, rotten that this is on the miss side of things. That is the way it crumbles, cookie-wise. Nice enough day was had, since you asked. I’m not usually great with a track record with nice days on Valentine’s Day myself, but the day was rather nice. And no worries about the sniffles. Now to the episode. An episode that I was much more interested in hearing what you had to say, more than revisiting the episode. And I must say that the momentary pause before diving into the post-episode thoughts that you had, that’s up there in terms of being one of the most disquieting things ever. You’re in a similar boat as I am, and I see Ryan is with this one. As Ryan mentioned, you’re on board with the ideas that the episode explores. The presentation, the writing for that, on the other hand, that is, it could have been done a LOT better. The way that you say, “I’m trying to watch this with very kind eyes.” is honestly a very sweet sentiment, Jess. I tried to do the same, and I do confess that it was not particularly easy. This is very much told through a heteronormative lens, as you put it. A case where you do have to remind oneself that this was 1992, and that LGBTQIA+ awareness was far less than today. All the same, I imagine that yes, this was always a tough watch. Watching it in 2026, currently, politically, it gets significantly tougher to watch. You are correct about that one. And it is a shame as the overall concept of this planet that is very non-binary would make for a fascinating hour of television. There are the aspects of it that are rather impressive and admirable for the time. You can sense that the writers were trying to be progressive with this. One aspect I rather liked was when Soren calls Riker out on using the gendered pronouns, and though it does induce a wince when Riker doesn’t seem to think of using they/them, he does take in what is said, and apologizes that it is all new to him, and he’s sorry if the occasional “he” or “she” slips through. That very human thing of even if one is genuinely completely supportive, you may not be as perfect about it as you would ideally like to think. I’ve mentioned about having family that’s trans. I’ve also a few friends that are non-binary, and that thing of you do take a moment to process, much though you are fully supportive. No malice in it, just the thing of you’re faced with that which you’ve never faced before, and you learn. Sweet when Beverly answers Soren’s questions. Gets a huge laugh when Riker is asked about his genitals, more because of the look that Jonathan gives Riker in that scene. You had a pretty good reaction to that part yourself. Rotten how Worf is made the strawman and with rather appalling dialogue. Ok, fine, maybe Worf doesn’t hit Frank Hart level sexist, but it’s not exactly far from it. His talk about the wild cards making it a “woman’s game” made me snap, “What the FUCK, Worf!?” We both made a Deanna joke when Riker is asked what type of woman he’s attracted to, so no worries on that one. And yes, Deanna and Riker had a very lovely scene. We share such love for them. As I’ve repeatedly said, second fiddle though it plays to the Picard/Beverly of it all, the love of the Deanna/Riker of it all is very strong for me as it is for you. Then of course, there is one of the most paramount moments of the episode: Geordi in the process of growing a beard, that as a bearded man who very much appreciates a good beard, had me saying, “Mr. La Forge, that’s a DAMN FINE looking beard you’re growing.” Very much in the transitional phase, but when it fills in, it’ll look magnificent. I of course knew that you would have a killer reaction to that. You’re work exceeds all expectations as said reaction was far better than even my loftiest anticipations. Coming to the big drama of it all. Soren falling for Riker and wishing to fully embrace a female identity. We about matched in reactions to all of that. Bringing us to how all of this is meant to be, as they say, a gay aesop. Makes it rotten that we have a cisgender female actress as Soren. Jonathan himself has expressed disappointment, as Ryan notes, that they didn’t cast a man in the part. Without wishing to get too into it, and likewise, not wishing to speak for you and your loved ones, given what you have talked about in the past, I did figure that you would take this rather personally, and I support you on that one. Though of course the gay subtext is still there, lately reads of this have gained more attention from those who are non-binary, and especially the trans community. This all has the effect of watching it today, and saying that the J. K. Rowling heinous bitch in chief can just go STRAIGHT to Hell. Love Picard saying that the Prime Directive ties his hands, yet surreptitiously relays to Riker that he won’t stop him from doing shit, whilst warning that any punishment would be out of his hands. Worf gets the good redemption moment. Sadly, it is the intent of the episode that Soren has been put through the conversion therapy. A horrible practice; I fully agree with your thoughts on that. You say about Soren saying to Riker what was said to dissuade him from trying further action, as enough damage has already been done. You asked our opinion: Well, it sounds at least slightly better than what the episode was going for, if nothing else. Breaks Riker’s heart. And it comes complete with a hasty “I love you.”. Happy Valentine’s Day everybody. I need gin. Love the silent exchange between Picard and Riker, where, as you say Riker just shuts down. Another episode that puts you through the wringer. I’m hesitant to thank you for this reaction as the fun level was low. How subdued you were at the end speaks volumes to that. Instead, I will thank you for what you had to say. I appreciate your words on this one, Jess.
Thomas Corp
2026-02-15 08:02:54 +0000 UTCWell, without spoiling anything, I can say with certainty that the next episode isn't a heavy one. So you can breath next week.
DoomGuy54321
2026-02-14 22:52:19 +0000 UTCOh boy, this episode. I agree with the ideas it's exploring in theory. In theory, Communism works. In theory. And I have to make clear from the start that I'm sure everyone involved with the show only had the best intentions, and were just trapped by the limits of knowledge and understanding of the time. And for real proof, just look at how it was still a few years away from The Adventures of Priscilla, which for all that it's heralded as a landmark piece of LGBT art, its portrayal of trans issues has aged like nitroglycerin as two of the main characters now seem downright nasty in their refusal to accept the third is a woman and keep gleefully deadnaming her, which we're supposed to agree with them on. I also say that as someone who was actually in high school in 2002 and can confirm most of us really did think "Did your husband make that for you?" would be a sick burn to someone like Randy Savage. In that kind of widely held worldview, the episode even going as far as it does in considering the idea of an agender race was pretty daring, and the main thing that trips it up is the mashing up of sexuality and gender identity which were still commonly thought to be the same thing. And I'm sure everyone's as sick of me bringing this up as I am, but I have to reiterate that Neil Gaiman having the apparent empathy to create a character like Wanda at this same time was a big part of what made me so initially reluctant to believe the accusations. The one who suffers the most is Worf, being made the designated sexist strawman in defiance of numerous statements before now that Klingons, very much including him, love powerful women (I'll do Beverly the favor of assuming she meant it hasn't been true for a long time that people had the viewpoint that women are weaker). At least it's just confined to one scene. But that just means for the rest of it, we're stuck watching everyone talk about how not only are male and female the only gender options, but they all have to be heterosexual too. And it doesn't help at all that despite being intended to be totally androgynous to human eyes (complete with Picard opening the episode by pronouncing the word like Dr. Evil saying "laser"), they're all very obviously played by women, giving the whole story a vibe that no one can possibly improve on the description from Cracked while talking about badly aged episodes: "One straight woman's brave quest for cock in the face of lesbian tyranny." Jonathan Frakes, to his very great credit, reportedly put up quite a fight to have Soren be played by a man, but even five years of being a popular star of the show didn't give him the pull to get it done. And I can't forget saying it's especially ironic to get to this episode so soon after we learned the title of Olivia Colman's Oscar isn't quite accurate, to really drive home how far we've come. And then it's all wrapped up with Soren being forced through conversion therapy, which for all that it's played as a bad thing and a downer ending, the fact that as far as we can tell it flawlessly works is just one more way this has all aged horribly. I appreciate you trying your best to look at all this positively, but sometimes you just have to say Shaka, when the walls fell. On the plus side, looking over the episodes of the remaining two and a half seasons I'm pretty sure we're done with the ones where you have to say "It was a different time" and can just enjoy the show.
Ryan
2026-02-14 19:16:23 +0000 UTC
