Shut Up I'm Talking Podcast / lil nutpig, old Ed Sheeran & comparison culture

i genuinely thought he said deep heat bro T-T (after the whole spicy toothpaste thingy)

Morgan

2025-11-07 21:29:08 +0000 UTC

i usually just watch the patreons and then on another time the mains

moyuyusa

2025-10-01 20:57:22 +0000 UTC

Most people hate the 9-5 I’d say

Jasper Finley

2025-09-30 10:39:16 +0000 UTC

To much love will kill you -Freddie Mercury famed BRITISH Artist.

Jasper Finley

2025-09-30 10:14:59 +0000 UTC

Late on this but I work at Asda full time, 5 days a week. Being formulaic and a cog in a system is draining for me. It makes things feel pointless. My real dream is to be a musician and I use work to fund it; but I believe that it truly depends on the person. If you enjoy it it will be easier. I just get by because I have to and if I could choose a more creative career I would in a heartbeat

Tommy

2025-09-23 00:05:04 +0000 UTC

i love when tommy dresses like shaggy from scooby doo

RoodleLIVE

2025-09-20 21:15:39 +0000 UTC

It's an interesting topic to discuss. In my opinion it all waters down to what your relationship with said job is like.

justdylanfr

2025-09-14 18:57:12 +0000 UTC

I’m late to the party on this one but i feel like i don’t really express myself creatively in my work. i’m a registered nurse and my creative outlets are crochet and gaming and colouring in, all hobbies i do when i clock off. I love my work but i don’t really get to be creative there. and even though i love my work, it’s harder than what tommy and jack do. It’s so rewarding but so hard at the same time. i would pick it over their jobs, but it’s also harder if that makes sense

Emma Lucy

2025-09-12 14:23:08 +0000 UTC

I think not everyone has a need to express themselves creatively- I work in law and a lot of my work is very formatted and consistent and that tickles the part of my brain that lacks the ability to create these ideas of expression. Everyone is different with different needs, and there are so many different jobs out there - it strongly depends on what type of person you are. Also in Law and other fields, I directly see individuals affected by my work and that’s definitely hard and gets carried home but there is such an environment switch that it’s possible to shut that stress out until I’m back at the office the next day

Rayne

2025-09-06 16:49:21 +0000 UTC

First thing, I don't think it's ALL centered on creative expression, Jack just kept interrupting Tom when he was trying to explain the reasons (I understand, I have ADHD too, just a bit frustrating to listen to lol). One of the main reasons for me, would be freedom. I haven't worked a proper full time 9-5, but I've done part time 9-5 like 3 days a week, working in an office, and it saps the life and energy. It took my outside-of-work freedom because I just had no energy left, so there was not really separation. I did find the work semi-fullfilling, but it was exhausting, even if it was repetative at times. Secondly, the 9-5 really is a 7am-6pm (or more), due to getting ready, traffic, eventually winding down, etc. It takes out the WHOLE day, and then some. The days off turn into just resting, so then I can't even do a creative outlet outside of work. I'm currently studying to go into engineering, because I would love to contribute meaningfully to the world and I do enjoy problem solving and puzzles. But, if I could choose, I would've gone into sculpture or art. Or I would've kept going with my youtube channel that I stopped when I was 12. Or maybe music even. I'm sure they both know many people who are fullfilled in their jobs, I just think you need a bigger sample size. And the real problem is, not many people get a choice.

Zoe S

2025-09-05 13:40:29 +0000 UTC

as someone who is trying to get their content creation up and running (10k on tiktok but with declining views and no creator funding because of location) and ALSO has a 9-5, the creative expression comes into play a lot. the 9-5 is hard to get motivated for when its not what i want to do and i know ive got something better on the way, but i still have to work a job to finance my content. as for the content creation, jack does have a point in saying that editing etc isnt easy, because it isnt. i find it easy to record the content but finding the motivation to actually edit it together is another thing. then theres the obsession with view count. id still say the irl job is harder though. if it was a job in the space i wanted then it would be different, but having a retail job where the biggest creative expression you can get is what clothes i wear sucks. it makes a huge difference. team tommy lmao

vic

2025-08-29 02:11:22 +0000 UTC

i think on the creative expression bit my opinion is that different people express themselvs in their own ways most of which arent necessarily what we would call creative. for example i plan on studying political science next year and intent to go into that as a career. i have zero interest in having a more “creative” job and think that would be harder for me than a 9-5 that i am really passionate about

Navah

2025-08-28 23:45:07 +0000 UTC

i think doing social media would be harder for me than a 9-5, it depends on the person. and it also depends a lot on which 9-5, its silly to group them all together.

Sully

2025-08-28 20:57:53 +0000 UTC

I think from the period in my life where l tried out streaming is that you really need to be motivated to keep going as there is no one really forcing you to do anything. Then you also need to be very confident with who you are otherwise you tend to take certain comments too personally. I’m now studying to be a teacher and have done a couple observation which has some similar and different challenges. With teaching you need to always remember many things and always be focused and ready.

Rezki

2025-08-27 07:01:51 +0000 UTC

i get where jacks coming from but i think a big aspect hes forgetting is the money. people who stack shelves make alot less money and definetely couldnt retire themselves by 20 (which i get not every content creator is at that level but when people say creators have it easy they're on about that top 0.1% of creators) so to compare it to that doesnt really seem fair, like 100% content creation is harder than jobs like stacking shelves but i feel like you have to compare it to other jobs that have very high pay like the comparison alot of people make with brain surgeons because even then content creators are still earning more and being a brain surgeon is definetely harder than being a content creator

pelepa

2025-08-27 06:55:33 +0000 UTC

I think both sides have their merit, but for me i relate very strongly to the point Jack made that having a creative job ultimately means that your ability to be creative becomes linked to your survival. For me that is my worst nightmare, because then it becomes not an enjoyable way to express my creativity but a pressure/burden on my brain and its ability to be creative. I work for the NHS (in projects admin like, not nursing!) and yeah the job is super hard and draining and emotional alot of the time, and most days i dont have the energy to express myself creatively or do creative stuff after work, but I personally believe that for me this job is 10x easier than if i had a content creator/youtube/creative focused job that was self employed. I may just be relating heavily to this/jacks point as i also have chronic adhd which i think really impacts the way we view creative roles as these can become a real life stressor when our brains are refusing to be creative. In those instances, my office based job will be much easier for me as it has processes and tasks that i can follow whether my brain is feeling creative or not! I do agree however that for some people, like Tom, who are built in a way where they thrive in a creative environment, this type of job IS easier than any 9-5, however i agree with jack that a blanket statement that all 9-5's are easier is not giving an accurate portrayal of the difficulties that come with a creative, self employed, 'working 24/7' job, that exists in an unstable and ever changing digital landscape. The potential volatility and instability of creative/online/digital jobs needs to be communicated more to the younger generation to eliminate the thought process that these jobs are automatically the only way to be successful now and are easier than other career paths, and to ensure they know and are prepared for what they are getting themselves into. For me, working for the NHS with dedicated weekly craft time is the best of both worlds :) <3

Imo Young

2025-08-26 21:04:12 +0000 UTC

A 9-5 can be so incredibly diverse. What i assume to be the part of a job like streaming(or musician) that makes it less hard is creative and self fulfilment. If a job is fun it is so much better to maintain and do then one you don’t like, and I think a streamer has that much more then a person who does a 9-5

Tuinkabouter Tv

2025-08-26 20:29:51 +0000 UTC

I feel like tom is confusing enjoyability with difficulty. I don't enjoy my job but its so easy and allows me to do things in my personal life that I want to spend my time on. 9-5 is such a blanket statement as to what jobs are but being a content creator seems 1000% more difficult then my old warehouse job, my bartending job and my current job on an IT desk but obviously isn't harder then being a Doctor for example. I think modern day content creators are having to become more of business heads whilst being the primary "product" of the business in such a competitive market which is not an easy thing at all!

777 Productions

2025-08-26 13:01:04 +0000 UTC

Ooo Netherlands!! I flew to (also) see Tommy's first show! Glad to know I'm not the only crazy one

Starlight

2025-08-26 12:54:48 +0000 UTC

i would hate to be popular as a job and streaming kinda sounds like that

Elion Eli

2025-08-26 10:35:21 +0000 UTC

Regarding just on people needing/wanting creative expression in work I disagree with Tom. I work in an Accounting department of a company and am surrounded with people that have zero creative expression in their work, some people working in accounts for decades. My coworkers are very happy and don't need creative expression in their 9-5 to be fulfilled. It might be a strong bias due to the type of work that I like and am doing, but the idea of my income being tied to if the next creative idea I have is good sounds like the 9th level of hell to me. Just to add on, I know so many other people who have similarly uncreative jobs who are just as fulfilled. Most, like me, have a hobby that they funnel their creativity into instead.

Engulf

2025-08-26 09:11:44 +0000 UTC

Honestly, I think Jack's idea that anybody who is really passionate about content creation will eventually make it is incredibly naive. You see hard workers who eventually succeed BECAUSE they've eventually succeed. You don't see the people who have failed or fell short of their goals. Survivorship bias. Also, globally, workers are not being paid livable wages, and the earning ceiling for a lot of 9-5s is too low, even for highly qualified workers. Many people spend years at the same job and simply never see the possibility of career advancement that content creators have access to.

Andy Ang

2025-08-26 07:32:47 +0000 UTC

I think both points are very valid and anyone wanting to begin content creation should understand everything that comes from it. My point only really relates to people who are successful enough to only do content creation without another job (like Jack and Tom). I often think that one main point of the 9-5 being harder (at least from my perspective) is that you say money is guaranteed. Realistically in this economy, when you begin to start a family or want to own a house people find themselves slaving over their 9-5 and it becomes an 8-6 to try and get promotions, often getting very minimal return on this. You can try to get another job but again you end up slaving over the money aspect or working for somebody who gives you absolutely no credit. I get that being a public figure alot of mental energy is used on image and ideas, but a perspective I think Jack lacks (only because he was working at 16-18) is that alot of energy is taken up either worrying about money or worrying about projects that will impact your pay, so their is definitely mental energy there. So difficulty wise I think the sheer exhaustion and hard work it often takes to make "comfortable" money is more difficult, especially without a creative outlet. I know the debate is about difficulty but I do think that money plays a big role in the mental side of things which is often an argument that a 9-5 is easier.

Lila

2025-08-26 06:17:39 +0000 UTC

I'm a big fan of the healthy debate lads. I think Jack's main point (and very correct one) was that easy vs. hard is completely subjective, and to advertise streaming with a blanket statement of "easy" or "hard" is silly. As with any other job. They're subjective and qualitative adjectives, like you literally can't measure that shite. I think I would die if I was forced to find ways to be creative and come up with videos and manage self employement and all that jizz. That would be hard for me. The idea of never shutting off does also exist in 9-5's of course. For example, being in healthcare, you have to take home paperwork, prepare for the next day, and constantly think of ways to help patients. Some jobs just take over your life in ways that other jobs don't. If you thoroughly enjoy the job though, it's less of a bother. So if you absolutely love content creation, you'll take that baggage any day. I also think Tom is on to something, if you changed "creative expression" to "enjoyment". Call me a freak, but I don't feel any need to creatively express myself. I'm a barista and I absolutely love it. The job is easy for me because I can wake up in the morning and not dread going to work. I love making silly little drinks, but I don't think I'm expressing myself with my aesthetic ahh caramel drizzles in the cup. Enjoy it or not though, you make diddly squat. I think the main thing people envy with content creation is the possibility to make fat cash doing what you love. I don't want to be a content creator at all, but I'm jealous that you can do your dream job and get paid well. That idea is what people mistakenly use the label "easy" for. My dream job is literally being a barista, but I can't live off that money. People yearn to make a living from a job they enjoy. OVERALL my point is that an enjoyable job will be "easy", and a job that makes you miserable will be "hard". Any answer to what's "easier or harder" is gonna be loaded with personal opinions and experiences and biases.

squishyogurt

2025-08-26 04:27:32 +0000 UTC

no he died and came back to life after a snow plow incident /gen

adrea

2025-08-26 04:25:24 +0000 UTC

is Jeremy renner dead?

Juliette Northam

2025-08-26 04:08:42 +0000 UTC

I completely understand both points in the argument, here’s my thoughts: For me personally, I would love to work a job where I can exercise my creative muscle, like Tom was saying, however I also fully understand what Jack is saying because the idea of my bills being paid on the stipulation of me being creative terrifies me. So, while I enjoy the idea of being creative for work, I really like just having you guys worry about that and being my creative outlet through your content. I told Tom when I met him in the record shop that I feel creative when I watch his videos and I feel that way about both of you guys individually and this podcast. Long rant where I basically just agree with both of you.

Erick

2025-08-26 03:48:20 +0000 UTC

I have no urge to be creative in my work. I just don’t want the work day to drag. Being creative at work means there is a certain amount of pressure..like you HAVE to come up with 2 good videos a month. Meanwhile I work asset protection, where things kinda just happen TO me. Something goes down, I write the report, contact police if needed. Then I clock out and maybe tell my boyfriend the crazy story, but other than that I can do literally whatever i want (and be creative) and I don’t think about work until I drive there the next day.

emikyjemily

2025-08-26 00:18:28 +0000 UTC

Ironic how Jack says how stressful his work is when he’s previously just mentioned he has the freedom to work at the beach.

Helloalex

2025-08-26 00:07:57 +0000 UTC

Tom and Jack’s disagreement totally makes sense from their perspectives, I would say that Jack is so stressed about getting the views and attention as that’s how most of his videos are designed, like the instagram reels vids that he’s described himself as slop and not very creatively freeing. Where as Tom on the other hand doesn’t really need to worry about view count and attention as he’s reached a popularity rating which guarantees him that he could get money from any of his creative work. Now I’m not trying to say that Tom no longer needs to worry about view counts as obviously he needs it to make a living but as he is so famous, he can still make money of the “square” videos that are more artistic and freeing. I personally disagree that jack’s job is more stressful than a common 9 to 5 like Tesco because I think he doesn’t recognise that he makes a lot more money than others with less work and how stressful minimum wage work is when you don’t have anything or anyone to back you up . I also think that he’s shown that he probably doesn’t enjoy his job as much as Tom, hence why he finds it so stressful. But by no means do I think there’s a definite answer to the question. Damn, really interesting episode this week.

Helloalex

2025-08-26 00:02:04 +0000 UTC

there’s too many types of 9-5’s to even make this an argument in the first place, and i think most people would be doing creative things for jobs if they could

harpy

2025-08-25 23:47:26 +0000 UTC

Agree with Tom a lot but also respect jacks nuance and approach to the question . Both can be right

Finley

2025-08-25 22:57:59 +0000 UTC

like to add to the comparison to nhs workers n stuff, being an nhs wokrer (to term it broadly) scratches an itch for htem, like how content creation may do for you. they love it, it's like their thing. of course they recognise the dificulties but if they didn't like it they wouldn't have gone through an at least 3 year degree for it and then continue to do it, despite the difficulties they'll be faced with. but i think it also let's them express their personality and to feel like they matter, which i feel like maybe is what some of the creative urge can come down to sometimes. or maybe not, or maybe it's just related i don't know. point is though, is that they get to express themself with medical opinions big or small and what decisions they make in cretain situations. maybe they enjoy Pulp Fiction but they don't want to make it, and maybe some people want to make Pulp Fiction but enjoy getting surgery, or something. sorry i've written way too much here but it's all just sort of fallen out of my mind, couldn't help it mate. just spilled EVERYWHERE.

vuh

2025-08-25 22:47:19 +0000 UTC

good luck on the degree dude, i've known a lot of student paras in my time and i've seen that mental itch in them in a way that some youtubers do, like you know to be mint at it and whatnot. anywho, keep giving it your all because it'll be soooo sooooo worth it. unless you realise you don't like it, if you do'nt like it you shouldn't do it. if you do though ohhh boy what a wild ride. also do event work it's mint.

vuh

2025-08-25 22:41:58 +0000 UTC

that's as mental as eating dessert first. i do respect your enjoyment of the confusion though, that's mint

vuh

2025-08-25 22:38:55 +0000 UTC

9-5 vs streaming i feel like it's a bit too broad of a question that's been laid out. like "a 9-5" could be almost anything, and even streaming could be anything as in the content you make, the audience you have etc. some people say they could never be a paramedic because of this, that or the other whereas some people fit in like a jigsaw and love it or just see it as someone working in an office would see work, except people die more. i reckon it's too multicoloured to be able to put any sort of yes or no answer, unless you're asking a specific person about specific jobs. although, i'd like to also acknowledge that i think getting into content creation is super difficult, like so is a uni degree but i feel like there's a certain large amount of luck related to making content and sustaining yourself from it, which i feel is similar to like making it big on telly. like it's difficult to get in but once you're in, you're in. people would still recognise you in the streets, you know? i think this would be an interesting question to try get strangers or people you know to proper deep though. stay silly n stay prideful <3

vuh

2025-08-25 22:37:25 +0000 UTC

i haven't listened to this yet but i just thought of a new segment: toilet post game interview segment. it's where you talk about how the famous patreon toilet break went. wee a bit dark? discuss! poo a bit amusing? discuss! new handwashing regime? show us! you get the idea. you're sittin on somethin big here. you know what to do.

vuh

2025-08-25 21:39:36 +0000 UTC

I don’t technically have a 9-5 timewise, but I clean. Honestly I love it. I wake up at 4-4:30 in the morning, no one else is on the road, I get to listen to podcasts and music and do the exact specific task I was assigned and then I’m done. I genuinely love the monotony and routine of work. Ofc I get tired and sometimes I don’t wanna work, but the actual work itself is somewhat relaxing. I can just go through the motions automatically and it’s very easy for me. It’s definitely a physically demanding job so I’m rly fortunate I’m in good health, but I also worked an actual 9-5 office job before and while it could be stressful, it wasn’t hard on me. Once learned the ropes, it was nice to have a routine. It made me feel productive. I’ve found the only creative outlet I need with work is some sort of extra stimulation like a podcast or music. I don’t need to be creative in my work, I can be creative outside. Honestly content creation would probably really stress me out cause I don’t do well when I don’t have a solid structure and list of tasks to do. I find it much easier to do my tasks and then be done. I know some people feel like “doing xyz forever is a waste of your life” and while I get for some ppl it can be, to me it isn’t because my life isn’t just my job. My life is everything outside of it too. Job can be part of it but so is the music I listen to and my family and my interests and my dream travel destinations. Some people need creative outlets in their work. I am not one of them. I love the repetitive monotony of having a schedule. It’s reassuring that I know what’s coming next.

chai

2025-08-25 20:26:30 +0000 UTC

Genuinely I would give anything to be able to make money and be able to do my own thing and entertain millions of people every day. I know how unrealistic it is but being stuck in a 9 to 5 is crushing and exhausting and I love both you boys but I believe with the right guidance and understanding of the job you have one of the best jobs in the world.

ThePaleRangerTV

2025-08-25 18:45:40 +0000 UTC

Regarding if there's people who only watch the patreon episodes: For the last two months I've listened to the patreon episode first and then the YouTube one! I'm usually about to get on a train when the episodes get out and I listen to the patreon on the train ride and the YouTube when I get home. Idk if it actually matters in term of mobile data usage but I'm not stopping, it's quite fun being confused sometimes

kroetenanomalie

2025-08-25 18:17:29 +0000 UTC

I think Jack's right Toms talking from his perspective like how almost every youtuber including myself feels an unstratchable itch in the back of our minds that very few people feel and Tom hasn't had a time when he doesn't feel like that take Jacks brother he doesn't have that itch family members and friends I have don't have that itch so for people with the itch yes YouTube is significantly easier but if you don't have it which is 99% of people content creation is a chore rather than a creative outlet.

Jamie

2025-08-25 17:03:21 +0000 UTC

I think for the end discussion, it’s not an easily comparable topic. Like Jack said, streaming/social media is not the easiest thing ever, but I think when put next to a 9-5 they are both complicated in their own ways. I think about my sister, who works a 9-5 for a company that she enjoys, but she would probably benefit more from being an influencer seeing as she could work from home and spend more time with her kids. At the same time, the publicity and invasiveness of the media would put a mental strain on her wellbeing, so it wouldnt be entirely easier than her current 9-5. The vulnerability and lack of privacy that comes with being on social media is a giant stressor that is not seen in a 9-5

kass

2025-08-25 17:01:00 +0000 UTC

I’m a student paramedic and I work part time for costa. Both are 2 completely different jobs and both very taxing but for different reasons? I love Costa and I get to be very create with my drinks and my latte art and I love my regulars, it’s a very social experience but that can be totally draining. However for Paramedicine that’s a whole different level of stress, where people’s lives are in your hands. And while human biology and science is definitely one of my special interests, the stakes are a lot higher there than making flat whites 😂 so I understand that a job you love can be really taxing but also that having creative expression in your work is fun but not necessarily vital to the job.

Kai

2025-08-25 16:07:02 +0000 UTC

content is absolutely hard too, much harder to get into than a 9-5 and a lot more responsibility... but I think there's a lot more to take into account than Jack has

Eden

2025-08-25 15:55:16 +0000 UTC

if stacking shelves at tesco was so much easier than content creating, you'd be stacking shelves 😭 it's less responsibility for more physical strain, more constraints, less mental stimulation, less reward - I've worked a 9-5 and I've worked in different types of content creation, I'd go back to content in a heartbeat but the things I saw in that 9-5 have never left me and I'm so grateful I had the privilege to leave ❤️

Eden

2025-08-25 15:53:36 +0000 UTC

I work in retail and study a creative subject at uni- so I agree with Tom that it’s important to have sum kind of creative outlet in your job. That’s exactly what I’m working towards- I want a career where I enjoy what I do and get to express myself, but I do genuinely worry about the future with AI (and just generally the whole of the creative industries 😔🙏) For ppl who want more traditionally “creative” jobs: those opportunities will let’s be honest prolly shirk massively or Jst not even exist in a few years:possibly leaving content creation as one of the few ways to earn a living while being creative. But sadly for most ppl it’s not realistic or possible to land a stable creative and fulfilling job they can make a decent living with, and they end up in jobs that don’t offer the same fulfilment. I Rly don’t need my retail job to be creatively fulfilling because I have my studies. And yet again that’s cuz I still have that hope that what I’m passionate about could become my career. But for most ppl doing what you love isn’t a realistic or possible option- which is why content creation feels like a distant privilege and “the easier” career. And most ppl who do land a job in the industry after uni- let’s say commissions based: just like cc they still have that “outside of workplace constant worry” of instability- will they have enough commissions that month to make a living? So at the same time if it can be similar to content creation- it really just depends on the “scale” of fame in influence/ stability u have

rizzye

2025-08-25 15:52:54 +0000 UTC

Personally, I think Jack's point about the ease of a job and the enjoyment of a job being two different things is very important - people who "twitch stream" are in most cases able to express themselves through creating (and then monetising) art that speaks to them and is enjoyable to take part in, but this doesn't necessarily mean that it always comes easy to them, and - given the attitude of youtube/twitch flooding creators with analytics to help earn more money for the company - it may very likely still occupy a lot of their thought in an negative and obsessive manner at any point throughout their day/life. Even if they do enjoy key aspects of their job, that doesn't mean it can't still become very emotionally and mentally draining over time. On the other hand, while stocking shelves at Tesco (as an example of a fairly low skill 9-5) doesn't exactly allow for the individual to express themselves creatively, it is a consistent task that can be completed without much long term mental strain, allowing for a reliable income and predictable day-to-day life (e.g Jack's experience working with computers). Furthermore, in most cases, people who have 9-5 jobs are - to an admittedly differing degree - still able to express themselves creatively (through painting, writing music etc) at the times when they are not working, without it having to be the foundation of their lifestyle. Of course, this argument has its limits - many 9-5 jobs do take much more skill than stocking shelves, and do occupy people's minds outside of their working hours (such as NHS workers). I'm sure many twitch streamers aren't quite as inspired and guided by creativity, almost to an obsessive degree, like Tom and Jack have discussed experiencing in the past - and may be generally satisfied with making content that doesn't make use of their full creative potential. Overall, I'm personally leaning more towards taking Jack's side on the argument - that being a "twitch streamer" isn't realistically as carefree as many people have previously portrayed it, and has pros and cons leading to a difficult, non black-and-white comparison in "easiness" between the two lifestyles. Tom definitely has a point that many people would, given the choice, choose to fully enter the creative space over a regular 9-5 - but just because they would choose this, and quite possibly draw more enjoyment or satisfaction over time from it, it isn't necessarily a simpler, "easier" life to live. Really really enjoyed listening to the deep chat and writing this, feel free to reply to the comment or message me if you want to discuss it more :))

wwoodrow

2025-08-25 15:48:59 +0000 UTC

This is a really fun conversation to have and it's the first time I've seriously thought about that question

SapphicSyn

2025-08-25 15:31:33 +0000 UTC

I think the only fallacy in Tommy's POV on the "which job is harder" debate is he's coming from a perspective where he's only ever been creative or had that freedom for it in a way that he wouldn't witness in something like a supermarket job. So that's naturally going to seem like a bigger loss and disadvantage point to him versus someone like Jack who's had more experience working outside of social media content. Like personally as a creative, although I haven't had a traditional job, doing something like stocking shelves seems infinitely easier mind-wise than trying to understand SEO and doing social media management. So yeah, stocking shelves, per se, would be mundane but a lower-stress job that only exists within the bounds of the 9-5, as I saw another user comment. Not to say his opinion is incorrect because that's not possible as it is an opinion, but I think that's part of the limited perspective because I can definitely 100% see where he's coming from. I think in the end it can be emotionally harder and unfulfilling for someone with that creative energy and no outlets for it for such a long period of time.

SapphicSyn

2025-08-25 15:31:05 +0000 UTC

Having known someone who pivoted to becoming a streamer/youtuber, the mental load he was under all the time fundamentally changed him as a person. You couldn't talk to him without the conversation cycling around to his ideas for the next stream, the SEO of the next video, etc. It became tiring to be that guys friend. Meanwhile, my mate who was being worked to the bone at a shopping center, was he depressed? Fuck yeah. Did he have time off for his own brain? Also yes, and we hung out and had great hangs, because once he clocked off, it wasn't his fucking problem, and he didn't have to worry about coming up with a new idea to make money next week.

harlizard

2025-08-25 14:42:32 +0000 UTC

I think the problem here is that maybe Tommy didn't really have that middle point? He kinda was just uploading/streaming stuff, went viral, and then the money was there for an editor, and by the time he started doing his own creative stuff he had fully stopped reading comments/social media. Jack is much more in touch with what the general experience is for youtubers, lol.

harlizard

2025-08-25 14:30:38 +0000 UTC

i think the major thing with a 9-5 is the repetitiveness of it, and doing the same thing ad nauseum will drive some people crazy. Also, with a 9-5, it's not a case that you JUST wake up at 9 and work and teleport home at 5, you lose more time for yourself with commuting, having to make dinner, if you have kids or family having to look after them, you lose so much free time that you ultimately have only really like 2 ish hours to do all the stuff you wanna do in your free time? that to me anyway is the hardship involved in a 9-5

CW1N

2025-08-25 13:29:05 +0000 UTC

I am a YouTuber, and for 4-5 years I was working as a tennis coach (2 years full time) alongside trying to get YouTube off the ground. For most of the people I worked alongside being a tennis coach, playing sport for a living seemed like a dream job. But for me I really struggled with it. All I ever wanted was to do YouTube so going to work felt like failure, and now I've finally achieved that everyday I wake up thankful that I'm doing this instead of tennis. I agree with Jack about the hardships of YouTube, especially the stress of falling off or putting a bad video out there, I'm not quite on the same level as you guys so money although is quite good its still a fear if views suddenly dropped off. But I see Toms point more, there isn't a single other job I could think of doing having done this, and the idea of going back to something I have very little passion in makes me feel slightly sick, I don't think that's the same for every person, but for those of us who are that way inclined, the idea of a 9-5 is 1000x more difficult than doing something so creatively freeing as youtube

DanNoSkill

2025-08-25 13:03:55 +0000 UTC

I think what Tommy is getting at with the creative outlet is true, but if you replace creative outlet with the word enjoyment. I garner my enjoyment from socialising at work for example. Not everyone needs a creative outlet but everyone needs to enjoy their job in some way or else it then becomes the ambiguous "harder job" that everyone seems to be talking about. I think grueling work or how difficult the job is on your mental or physical really affects enjoyment, Ive worked physical labour, retail and currently security. Physical labour was crazy hard work but with a good social aspect so it balanced out to an "okay job", retail was easy work but next to no social aspect so it was kind of awful, and then security is an easy job and has a massive social aspect and to be honest its probably my favourite job I've ever worked or ever will.

CM

2025-08-25 12:20:18 +0000 UTC

jack defo comes across as meaning well, especially w the whole if you hate ur 9-5 ofc its gonna be worse than streaming thing. but its difficult to argue ur case that streaming can be harder than a 9-5 when every single person leaving a comment has paid you 5 quid to watch this episode, and youve spent the first half talking about the fact you guys got to hang at the beach all week. "streaming is harder than a 9-5" is funny because its so riduculous, ofc streaming isnt for everyone but I have friends who would quit their jobs for content creation in a heartbeat, the downsides be damned. Stocking shelves is easy yeah but waking up at 7am every day to clock in stocking shelves for 8 hours is a waste of someones life. i still think jacks idea for a video warnin kids who want to live like big youtubers is a great idea, especially cuz the downsides arent talked about as much and theres plenty of folk who would benefit from it. but i wouldnt compare it to working a 9-5, the two really arent comparable

Rebecca

2025-08-25 12:17:30 +0000 UTC

I work for the tax department for my country, it is not very creative at all but I love my job because its satisfying in helping people or solving problems with internal systems. I also worked in a grocery store before that and it was also not too bad, I always enjoyed the aspect of helping people or solving issues and the general mind-numbing low effort zone-out work. And I am ALSO a content creator and can say that it has been so much harder mentally to do the twitch and youtube thing then it ever is or has been with any of my 9-5 jobs. some jobs will of course always be harder then others, but the mental strain is what really gets you, and alot of 9-5 jobs dont necessarily have tremendous mental strain like content creation does (my current tax job does but hey its TAX so). be ye fuk it we ball

curiosity

2025-08-25 12:08:23 +0000 UTC

Genuinely it's been the only time he's annoyed me and come off as privileged as he is 😭

Teagan

2025-08-25 11:21:53 +0000 UTC

I also should mention that there are also a lot of people that don’t ever get the job they really want to do.

ERA

2025-08-25 11:20:57 +0000 UTC

I believe there are people who work a job they want to do and enjoy that job (often jobs that are either highly creative or skilled) . And there are people who work only because they have to earn money so they can enjoy life outside the job. Then there are all the people in between. I know people on both sides of that spectrum and are both satisfied with their lives. Personally I definitely need a creative and skilled outlet in my job but I have to be quite careful because I get burned out easily no matter what I am doing.

ERA

2025-08-25 11:18:52 +0000 UTC

Peak house

Nemshi

2025-08-25 08:03:37 +0000 UTC

As a soon to be 23 year old, who has done both youtube and many diffeeent 9-5 jobs.. I would take youtube any day of the week. I'm currently on my lunch break, but I work at Hello Fresh. It's not hard, like at all. But man is it dehumanizing. I am a literal cog in a machine where the only sense of accomplishment I feel is someone higher up than me telling me thanks for making them more money. I have literally dropped 95% of my relationships, just cause I don't have the time or energy after work to keep up with people or even properly take care of myself at times. Most people who idolize being youtubers, streamers and so on, just want freedom. Not the fame. Not entirely the money. But just control over their own lives. Obviously there's tons of other ways to do that and that's what most people end up doing.

Nora My Beloved

2025-08-25 07:32:09 +0000 UTC

I don’t think that’s fair. Creativity is what drives him I think he just maybe overestimates how many people are also creativity driven

Cryark

2025-08-25 05:25:32 +0000 UTC

It all depends on the individual. Please stop debating, it makes me sad. (Also, I agree with Jack)

Apples

2025-08-25 05:11:02 +0000 UTC

I believe that it truly depends on the person. I love being creative and I do that by sewing, but even then I don't think I'd want to sew for a job as that would take away the enjoyment. I believe the same would apply to content creation. The creative aspect would be awesome, having the time to do that, but the stress of being forced to be creative would be too much. Ultimately, I'd rather keep working at Maccas or wherever I get to next, whilst being able to enjoy my hobbies.

Apples

2025-08-25 05:09:21 +0000 UTC

this might be unique to me as i work nights but something you guys didn’t mention is availability, u and a lot of friends being creators means you’re available very often to spend time however and with whoever you want, but a group of friends who have different jobs/careers won’t have as much availability, could go on about that but u get the point, great pod fellas

Oliver O’Reilly

2025-08-25 05:07:27 +0000 UTC

I havent really ever thought about the creative side of a job. When I was growing up I really wanted to be a youtuber/streamer but now that im 18 I know it's unrealistic, and i've known that for quite some time. I work in fast food and people are usually shocked when I say this, I actually dont hate it. I used to work in a supermarket and GENUINELY hated that. at the end of the day, for me personally, being a content creator would be much harder for me because the money isnt guaranteed, and it seems very difficult to really get the ball rolling.

Bec

2025-08-25 04:51:05 +0000 UTC

I think Jack is speaking from an area of privilege here and doesn’t quite realize how lucky he is. Content creators always have the option to quit and find a non-content job; regular workers do not have the option to quit and find a content job. Sure, some people do genuinely enjoy their work and don't find it hard, but I think that's a rare few people and when you look at content creators as a whole, on average, they are probably much happier with their lives than the average worker.

sheeple

2025-08-25 04:15:06 +0000 UTC

I also think if imma be depressed from my job id rather be depressed and be able to live at least comfortably and get to create my art for a community of people who like my art to see.

The Milkman

2025-08-25 03:21:49 +0000 UTC

I know ive experianced these feelings that make me think sometimes that I dont fit in a world where i have to have a 9 to 5 the dread of a job where I can express myself is so intense that its sometimes crippling, I think for some people creativity is EVERYTHING and the craziest thing lately for me is realising some people just dont care, and I guess thats fine, some people just dont have a want to create art, I think everyone is creative to some degree but some people dont need it like others, so for me a 9 to 5 or "normal job" is incredibly hard because one of the pillars of my life, one of the things is NEED isnt there and then im too tired to live it after and that does make it HARD but for some poeple it doesnt

The Milkman

2025-08-25 03:21:01 +0000 UTC

I work at a doggy daycare, i TRULY love my job. Though I don't like one or two of my coworkers. I don't think i could handle being presented on the internet in a way that lets people freely critique me. sure a creative outlet is important in life, but I don't think I NEED to find that at my job, there are many other places where i can express that creativity. I don't think either are easy, and I don't think one is harder than the other.

Moose

2025-08-25 02:43:01 +0000 UTC

I make my income from fine dining and standup comedy and even though dining is much more manual labor with 12 hour shifts on my feet, standup is constantly present and became a lot harder after i was financially supported by it. Fine dining has a similar stress that even when i clock out I’m still thinking of it but its not like the whole restaurant is dependent on me whereas my whole show is

Tomo

2025-08-25 02:40:29 +0000 UTC

I think that in the same way a 9-5 job can be many different things as jack said I also thing that being a content creator even just a youtuber can mean many different things and alot of it depends on how you as individual knows how to deal with different environments so for example I feel like making a video that requires alot of scripting and planning and structure is much harder than making a video reacting to tiktoks so they're each difficult in their own ways. I also think that the only reason being a content creator is so separated from other jobs is because the nature of the job revolves primarily around being self employed even if the skills you use being a content creator is the same skills you would use in other jobs whether that means video editing on having to run a business which often ends up happening to creators that move into much higher budget larger scale projects so I think its very personal experience based unlike other jobs where you have a better idea of what you're getting into

Shamefvl

2025-08-25 01:20:13 +0000 UTC

Ed Sheeran I stand by is the greatest singer song writer of the 2000s. I will live and die on that hill

Katherine A. Donovan

2025-08-25 01:08:52 +0000 UTC

I don't think it's about creativity so much as it is about fulfillment, I think you can find a really uncreative job quite fulfilling through other means like hard work or the completion of tasks, or even just satisfaction making a living. With that said my immediate reaction is nine to five job is harder than being an influencer. When there's something complicated like this where you are comparing two scenarios I like to use a metaphor of friction because it makes it easier to see how different types of issues compare, if we say that the ideal state is relaxed, and we say that someone is relaxed when they are not stressed then we can begin to compare being an influencer to holding a regular job, as we can look at sources of friction or things preventing the ideal state and count those as negatives and compare the amount of friction they produce, it's still subjective but I think it's an easy way to lay out the arguments and allow someone to reach a natural conclusion. First thing we have to consider is that nine to five is a very generic term and doesn't really mean much, as is influencer, there are lots of different jobs encompassed there and they each bring their own separate forms of friction, you mentioned NHS workers often bring work home, while someone working retail maybe less likely to, the emotional stress of a job depends on both what the job is and who the person with the job is, I think the key example of this would be civil engineering. On the face of things civil engineering doesn't sound like the sort of thing where you would bring your job home or that would involve a lot of emotional stress it might be exhausting because it involves a lot of logic and maths, but at first glance not much emotional stress, but the role of an engineer isn't just a solve the problem presented to them it's also to act as a sort of legal shield, the person held culpable if something goes wrong in the construction or in the use of a building and the fault is found to be in the planning stage rather than in the way it was constructed. Accidents do happen and people do get hurt and the engineers are responsible for this, onsite engineers make decisions that influence people more directly but offsite engineers also hold responsibility. It's easy to see that even without an incident actually occurring, the idea that you could be responsible for an incident could generate a lot of stress for a particular individual, and it's also easy to see how it might not. In this we can see the friction generated by a nine to five job was variable, not just by what job it is but by the individual, I'm sure the same is true for influencers, as such this should be disregarded in my opinion, we can't focus on the actual activity of the job to come to a conclusion here because we can't make judgments on such a scale, as such we must look only at what is different between both forms of work. It will be easier to define what is unique about a 9 to 5 job so let's start there. As is suggested by the name, five days a week, nine to five you are unavailable, you are at work and that is for the majority of people inflexible, it's not a decision you can make, obviously people have holidays and sick leave but that is limited and as such is a source of friction. Most jobs for large companies have vertical progression, there is also horizontal progression, by which I mean you can move up the company and have your standard of living improve by filling roles more and more abstract from the actual product or service, and also that within most large companies you will have the opportunity to concretely change rolls, you can be given a new title and be doing a new thing, obviously given demand and qualifications, but it is possible. I would view both of these things as neutral, I think they're both provide stress and alleviate stress depending on the individual. Being able to be prompted means you have something to work towards but it also means you're something that you could be denied, and demotions are possible as well. Being able switch positions means it might be easier to change what you are doing if you find it dissatisfying or stressful, at the same time you could always move to a position that you find more dissatisfying or stressful. In the UK if you work at a large company you won't be doing your own taxes and you probably won't have to worry too much about setting up a private pension if it's something you intend to do long term. At the same time your potential for earnings is reduced, I don't mean you'll be making less money I mean that your ability to make more money is less than that of an influencer, your wage is your wage and your salary is your salary for the vast majority of people, bonuses do exist for this reason, it's an incentive, but that's limited by management and management strategies so I would say this is a source of friction. One final source of friction that I've identified is that of being made redundant. In the events of no longer having your job if you work a traditional job, especially with the state of the labour market right now, you are very suddenly and very completely making no money until you find a new job, and your chances of finding a new job are not up to you they are up to market demands, and if the industry that you have experience or qualifications in isn't really hiring right now then you aren't getting hired right now, that's sort of it until the market moves on, you don't really have recourse. Now in terms of friction on the side of influencers, it is obviously a lot harder to be a private citizen. We have seen this in every era of entertainment from Radio personalities to now, people want to know about you and that can be stressful, and it can be damaging to your mental health, some people can cope with it fine but I'd wager the majority of people can't. That is I would say the major source of friction here. There are other jobs where this is the case to a lesser extent (I mean teachers certainly struggle with this) but not on a global scale. Other than that I would say this is virtually a freelancing job where work is always available but pay is not guaranteed. It's very hard to be conclusively fired and very hard to suddenly be making absolutely zero income, your schedule is inherently more flexible, I will say I understand that it's not entirely flexible but compared to the average person it is certainly more flexible, and your potential for earnings is obvious, more output is more earnings (I understand it doesn't exactly work like that, but to an extent it does, and if not more output then abusing whatever metric YouTube is using currently or whatever social Media platform you're on, or diversifying into different outputs like patreon's or podcasts). As with all freelancing jobs there are some issues, you have to do your own taxes and set up your own pension; money isn't guaranteed and its up to you to work, nobody is forcing you; similarly it's up to you to change your position, if you want to do something different you have to do something different and it might not work out there's no guarantee; if you think something might make more money it's a risk not a promotion. All that being said I do still think that there is more friction to relaxation in having a 9-5, I do think for most people a full-time position is more appealing than a freelance position in a given industry, and viewing online influencers as freelance entertainers, for the exact same reasons I can see why they might not appeal to everyone, however if you can make it work for you freelance positions do typically have more personal rewards, as does the entertainment industry from a performance perspective, if we say an influencer is just a freelance performer who can always get work but the rate is variable then I would say that there is less friction but more risk involved in that lifestyle when compared to a typical career.

'~'

2025-08-25 00:14:58 +0000 UTC

Well put

Cryark

2025-08-25 00:14:26 +0000 UTC

I think the monotonous nature of a 9-5 can also get really dark very quickly. For a lot of people, their 9-5 is also their life, but they don’t get to choose that and it’s not necessarily something they enjoy like with content creating

Cryark

2025-08-25 00:10:15 +0000 UTC

I understand both sides here, but I do think MOST people need some sort of creative fulfilment- your average 9-5 does not provide that. Like Jack said I’m sure some people are perfectly happy and fulfilled by their 9-5, but your AVERAGE 9-5 low pay job is not bringing anyone anything other than enough money to pay the bills- and in that sense it is harder, even if it is just stacking shelves. Obviously it depends, I think the reason why people so vehemently oppose the whole ‘streaming/ yt is harder’ argument is because a lot of streamers or yters have an amount of money where even if everything fell through they would be fine, most people working a 9-5 don’t have that. it’s a choice thing

Cryark

2025-08-25 00:06:07 +0000 UTC

I'm going to have to agree with Jack on this one. I think a point that a lot of people are missing is that he's not saying that streaming is as hard as a regular 9-5 but that it can definitely be hard. Yes, 9-5 also blurs the lines between work and life because you have a lot of external forces on you but the streaming and content creation life is so internal. You may have to work overtime sometimes but w/ content creation there truly is no line. At least with a 9-5 there's somewhat of a break of "this is when this thing ends". With content creation, every aspect of your life is your job. There's always the thought of "I could be filming right now" or "I could be writing right now". It can get really dark really quickly.

Athena Sibal

2025-08-24 23:26:34 +0000 UTC

I think if you look at any job other than desk work (ie. bartender), where the majority of the work day is on your feet, then content creation really is an easier job in terms of physicality and expression. If you compare it to an office workers 9-5 then I would say that the self structure and having to constantly create new content is definitely more difficult than the 9-5 in that instant. So yeah, Jack is right as long as you take into account only office workers, and I agree with Tom about creative expression being sorely missed for workers, but the most important aspect is the physicality. There are so many jobs where your body takes a toll from the work, and content creation just isn't one of them. I work as a bar tender for 12+ hour shifts at a time, 6 days a week, and my entire body hurts constantly. That's obviously way more difficult just in terms of sheer stress placed on the body. I'd love to have creative expression at my job and be able to put my own ideas and concepts into play at work. But also, I would hate to be a content creator. There's a large degree of uncertainty with it. If I had to go to work everyday and I didn't know how people would react to my content or etc then I would be constantly stressing. I would hate that. So in that sense, content creation can be much easier than a lot of jobs, but that doesn't make it more desirable. I'd take the familiar comfort and routine of my bartending over it anyday. Its kind of a can't win situation

boop

2025-08-24 23:25:53 +0000 UTC

I think maybe doing the same monotonous 9-5 job, for minimum wage (as in reality higher paid jobs normally mean worrying about/being contactable outside work hours) and just getting by financially, for 50 odd years is definitely harder than the baggage of what comes with being a steamer, especially when taking into account the opportunities being a streamer affords you.

Em

2025-08-24 23:16:17 +0000 UTC

i aint readin that essay

Otis

2025-08-24 23:07:06 +0000 UTC

Its important to recognize Jack that a very large percentage of people won't ever get the same satisfaction out of their job that you get out of yours. Yes there are creative jobs, fufulling jobs, ones people love! But thats not always the case is it? The reality is that the majority of people that see their job as something that takes away their time. Its not a simple "you clock out and you're done", in richer countries, ex. U.K. or the U.S., the workforce is largely knowledge based, not physical work. The marketer for a company, a lawyer, an accountant. Those are al problem solving jobs that give situations and issues you can't just "clock out of". You speak as though self employment is the only situation where you are thinking of your work after hours, You're constantly thinking of ways to fix problems at work, worrying over your position, whether or not you get that raise, etc. And waking up at 8 to get ready, and then get home tired and needing to cook at 6 or 7 realistically doesn't give you very much time of your own. Time is the one thing you can't replace, and content creation, as reluctant as you might be to admit it, most likely takes up less time. You make YOUR schedule, where you work, how you work, who you work with, its much more up to you. (There's actually a statistic that says those who feel more control of their life are often much happier than the average person) It can be grueling to fork over most of your time to work for some random soulless company. Especially considering many of those types of jobs have the very real possibility of retiring late, cutting you off easily, little health benefits, or may just not pay enough for a real stable living wage! Another good example of the difference between the jobs is the vacation and sick days, Memolous for example you mentioned just got all of his work done for a few weeks and then went off to vacation, a luxury very very few people have. The average 9' 5 only has so many sick days, and often only has a week or 2 of real vacation days. And as for Tommy's arguement, while not everyone may be as consciously focused on a creative outlet (as many find themselves forgetting or losing that time to find it) I do believe it is one of the driving things of what makes us human. Take a look at some of the richest people in the world, and then look at their kids. Kids that are TRULY financially free, you will see most of them are artists of sorts, maybe in music, painting etc. Will Smith's kids are a good example. When time is truly yours and you have little economic stress, the soul chooses art and self expression and I believe there is something truly beautiful about that. That all being said, Content creation is still a Job, its still WORK. But what makes it hard is that people expect it to be easy.

Raven

2025-08-24 22:10:24 +0000 UTC

Pretend this is some cool debate talk so I can fit in

Lelz Guy21

2025-08-24 21:47:30 +0000 UTC

Content creation is a job and a 9-5 is a category of a bunch of jobs, so its difficult to compare. It is important to acknowledge the unique negatives of content creation, and self employment. But generally content creation comes with comfort and freedom, its limited comfort and freedom, but in a 9-5 you dont get any say over what your doing, or how, or when, or how long your doing it for, in contrast in content creation you don't really have a boss, the platform does take a cut of your labor, but generally in a 9-5 you don't get a cut at all, just get your set wage. Content creation does present unique challenges and its not for everyone, but i would say generally it is easier

River

2025-08-24 21:10:01 +0000 UTC

I feel like in this debate everyone will have a different answer depending on what they prioritise in life and their relationship with work. There are so many factors considering the employed vs self employed aspect alone (e.g structure, work/life balance, income stability, hiring staff) that all have their pros and cons that are subjective to each person, and if you throw all of the content creation specific aspects on top (e.g type of content, if it's for passion or profit, the pros and cons of fame) it becomes very muddled and hard to determine. As Jack said, there are definitely a lot of people out there that thrive in a typical 9-5 environment and find it 'easier' than they would being a self-employed content creator, but there are also others that, like Tom was saying, would jump on the opportunity to make their money doing a creatively fulfilling job that they have (almost) full control over. I think it very much depends on the individual and there isn't an objective answer to which is 'harder'.

Erin

2025-08-24 20:51:53 +0000 UTC

tom's argument - i agree more but i don't think he considers that so many people prefer their creative endeavours completely separate from work. put simply, it's why most people who knit don't run their own etsy shop. hobbies are hobbies and work is work, and that separation is important for a lot of people. the hard thing about being an influencer is that there is no separation anywhere, your job is your hobbies and you're famous for being yourself and it's hard to find any level of balance. it's a very full-on lifestyle and i think most people couldn't hack it. and also, he prioritises creativity because it is his passion, but other people's passions lie elsewhere and that's what makes their jobs enjoyable - it would be impossible to be a nurse if you didn't have a passion for caring for people, the job is still difficult but that passion fuels people to keep going, as tom's passion for comedy, gaming, music etc keeps him creating in his career.

melobugs

2025-08-24 20:27:16 +0000 UTC

the random harry cameo 😭 best of luck with the long distance relationship tom!

ultravioletbutch

2025-08-24 20:26:37 +0000 UTC

i think there's a massive massive difference between a job being fun and fulfilling, and a job being easier or harder than another, tom's argument about streaming being easier for him than a 9-5 because it's really creatively fulfilling is a good point but i dont think you can ignore the fact that there are so many jobs out there that are also creatively fulfiling but significantly harder than content creation, conversely there are going to be jobs which aren't very creatively fulfilling but still may be much much easier than content. i have two jobs at the minute (so not technically a 9-5 i guess); i enjoy both of them, i feel very fulfilled and i find them both fun, but they - my main job supervising bars and assissting with our cellar management in a football/rugby stadium especially - are definitely much harder than making content is. in my opinion, both of your arguments were a bit naff, but content creation is definitely the easier job when compared to the majority of 9-5s

Katie Colclough

2025-08-24 20:19:52 +0000 UTC

jack's argument - i think very few 9-5 jobs really offer separation from life (for example my mum was a secondary school teacher for 30 years and spent so much of her free time doing unpaid work at home as well as constantly thinking about her work and the kids), especially nowadays where bosses can contact employees so much in their free time and your average office worker is expected to be much more available. i think your definition of 9-5 is also way too broad, like i wouldn't even really consider stacking shelves at tesco a 9-5 because it's shift work and often done alongside school or uni, also becomes much harder once you consider that the shelf stackers are also working the tills, deli counter, cleaning after close etc etc, it's a much more complex job than it appears. however, i do agree that streaming/youtube/influencer job has a huge mental health toll, but so do many other 9-5 jobs (doctors, nurses, teachers, firefighters etc where you're in a high pressure environment). the unique thing about influencers is that they have the fame pressure of other 'fame' jobs like actors or musicians, alongside the pressure of really running your own business and being in so much control over your own work, which most people probably would crack under that pressure and not make it. i don't think it is harder but i think it requires a very specific skill set which most people could not do, whereas most people could work at tesco.

melobugs

2025-08-24 20:19:41 +0000 UTC

I agree with Jack 100%. As someone who has a 9-5 but also is self employed doing my hobby (nail art). I could never just do my hobby as my one job to rely upon for my well being. I would get so burnt out creatively and it would ruin my love for it. Now I’m very glad that my fear of not having stable income has provided me with the ability to also make money doing what I love, if I had listened to someone saying “you have to quit your 9-5 if you’re ever going to make it far in your creative career” then I’m not sure I would have even done it.

Alyssas

2025-08-24 20:12:48 +0000 UTC

I'm a Software Engineer, which is sort of half creative and half gruelling 9-5 stuff. The creative side makes it freeing and fun while the other side makes it annoying and boring and a drain on my spirit. I wouldn't want to do something more grueling like working retail or in food. But I also wouldn't want to do something more creative (writer, singer, content creator) becuase that's a level of tying my creativity to my self-worth that would just destroy me. I think its the balance that is really nice. Like most things in life a balance is so so important. I think a job becomes hard when it leans too much in 1 direction; becuase you get all the horribleness associated with that extreme.

Luke Berry

2025-08-24 20:10:14 +0000 UTC

Shut up I’m talking boys hear eachother out challenge

mademoisellechronicles

2025-08-24 20:06:10 +0000 UTC

my main issue with tom and jacks debate towards the end is that y'all didn't bring money into it. obviously im not gonna sit here and be like oi tell us your incomes guys but there are very few influencers out there who have made it who have to deal with the struggles of living pay check to pay check and I do think that is a major thing to consider in the debate

ames 🎸🍋🐊📸

2025-08-24 20:02:05 +0000 UTC

I reckon that jacks right that it's too much of a blanket to compare 9-5s to content creation as one being more difficult. on one hand the complete lack of privacy that comes with being an influencer and the complete inability to switch off sounds like it could be a lot more mentally challenging than some of the 9-5s I've had, but on the other hand being self employed and not having to deal with dickhead managers or dickhead customers or exclusively antisocial hours is 100% a blessing. I really think it does depend on the 9-5 you're doing and how much you enjoy it. for example, when I worked in hospitality (if you're counting that as a 9-5) I really struggled with the high stress environment and the constant degrading from customers and bosses alike, on top of having to be on your feet all day and having to deal with the fast pace of trying to do everything as quickly as you possibly can while also doing it perfectly, and I would say that while on shift that is possibly more difficult (obviously you can switch off after which is something else to consider). however the job I have now as a senco, I don't necessarily think is as difficult, I mean sure influencers don't have to deal with being bitten and kicked by kids n shit but 90% of my job consists of singing nursery rhymes and playing games which is definitely a lot easier in my mind, also the fact that working in my current job is such a rigid routine which allows you to better optimise your time off, which I reckon you probs don't have as an influencer

ames 🎸🍋🐊📸

2025-08-24 19:59:57 +0000 UTC

i think tom is focused on more of the actual mental state you would find yourself in when working towards this goal of success and actual like progression to where you want to be v where jack is putting yourself there with the knowledge that you have to know you want this and are able to do it, which is why he compares it to like the tesco employee stocking shelves. i’m not saying anyone’s wrong about anything but know that every single factor is attributed to like everything. i think it all literally boils down to : depends on who you are. and it’s a very cheesed statement i know, but literally everyone can have different outcomes and reasoning that can arguably be right or wrong to the point where it’s only about perspective

Jenna Gain

2025-08-24 19:31:35 +0000 UTC

i disagree with jacks argument of being able to switch off after ending your shift of work. jack hasn’t been in the position of having to provide for a family with a 9-5. a lot of people work a 9-5, missing out on hours with their children and then still not having enough money to make ends meet. content creation can make quite a lot of money without having to be away from your family or loved ones so much, therefore can be much easier for a lot of families. it can also create enough income to be able to have early retirement. my own father works 12 hours a day 6 days a week just to make ends meet for our family and still struggles. i also think toms argument was based on a creative outlet because that’s what toms priority is and drive is which disproves his argument because that’s not what drives the average person, however i think he’s correct that it’s a lot easier to enjoy content creation rather than a 9-5 because you have more control of doing what you enjoy.

holly

2025-08-24 19:19:38 +0000 UTC

I think some people are happy in 9 to 5s and some aren't. My fiance drives a forklift at a warehouse and makes good money and he likes his job. If I had to do that, I would be miserable. I'm a marketing intern and like that. if he had to do it, he would be miserable. I think it entirely depends on the kind of person you are; I think I would really enjoy full-time content creation, but I'm sure other people would not. It's entirely subjective.

adrea

2025-08-24 18:55:03 +0000 UTC

forgot to cancel my subscription and this took the last of my money, thought id watch the video to make the most o fit, and was reminded of my parents divorce </3

TangyVanilla_

2025-08-24 18:50:48 +0000 UTC

I agree with Jack that the actual ‘work’ itself is easier than most jobs, but the unreliability and work/life balance is probably worse than most 9-5 jobs I don’t know any youtubers but my dad is self employed and I don’t think I’ve ever seen him take a Real break. After and before work and even on holiday he gets calls and texts and is sorting out taxes/budgets or what job he’ll be able to do next. So I think actually this debate might be more employed(?) jobs vs self-employed jobs in a way, in which case I think self-employed jobs are harder than most employed jobs. BUT with youtubers specifically the ‘main job’ (recording videos) is typically easier than both most employed and self-employed jobs. But it does still come with a lot of if not all of the hardships that come with other self-employed jobs EDIT: Also i think youtube does actually come with an extra disadvantage (as well as the advantage of recording being easy) as it might ruin a hobby, which probably also affects some self employed jobs too actually

L

2025-08-24 18:43:08 +0000 UTC

I say as long as you find what you do fulfilling, it’s great. If you do a job you hate and you’re not fulfilled then I’d say a 9 to 5 is definitely harder. I also think that although streaming has drawbacks, it brings so many cool opportunities that most people don’t have the opportunity to do. But I fully understand that it weighs on an individual more to be doing a job like content creation because there can be a lot to manage. Bottom line, it doesn’t matter to me which is objectively easier, as long as someone is happy and fulfilled in what they’re doing, that’s what makes something easier.

Liv Hancock

2025-08-24 18:42:56 +0000 UTC

The thing about 9-5s is even true for being a doctor or teacher: jobs that people typically enjoy or find fulfilment it. They’re still more alienating than being self-employed since you don’t have control over your hours, the intensity of work, etc and you are constantly squeezed by cuts to resources and staff. But also, most people now (especially young people) don’t have fulfilling jobs, the only jobs going are shit like service work or inane office work.

Abigail

2025-08-24 18:36:58 +0000 UTC

Loved this episode <33, discussion at the end was very interesting.

Clone54

2025-08-24 18:33:12 +0000 UTC

I think that the whole debate really depends on how you approach each job for example content creation as a whole can include like you two, people who stream and make YouTube videos as well as people who make shortform content and all of these combined can be a lot more time consuming and mentally draining at times t han certain 9-5 jobs the content is also a big factor like video essays and educational content will naturally be harder than other options I think that the debate is far too broad as there are really difficult 9-5 jobs ones that can be more physically demanding and mentally demanding. Undeniably there are a lot more factors to address but too much for a comment I would love to go into more detail but I will stop myself haha

Lennie-mae Georgiou

2025-08-24 18:30:10 +0000 UTC

Whether you’re self-employed or working for a company, you are constantly squeezed and pressured beyond a healthy level to maximise how profitable you are, whether its YouTube studios telling you that, your boss or the low number in your bank account. It’s good to talk about the negatives and stresses of YouTube/content creation and self-employment in general. I’d say that working a 9-5 means that you have no control over your work and that you do not benefit from how well you work (the boss and the shareholders do), so wage labour is more alienating, boring and soul crushing. Work can be so tiring that you have no time for hobbies for creative expression, at least you get to do both at the same time as a YouTuber. Ultimately, unless you are a big capitalist like Elon Musk, a bank executive or large shareholder, you are ground down by the system. We shouldn’t waste too much breath arguing amongst ourselves over who has it worse when ultimately this isn’t a good system and we shouldn’t accept the better of 2 shit options. We should fight for a world where this constant pressure for profits, for views, for productivity doesn’t exist.

Abigail

2025-08-24 18:29:44 +0000 UTC

I'm autistic and i was out of education for like 4 years, and i think all that time i spent just laying in bed and rotting has made me realize that structure of a 9-5 is a must for me to keep me sane. I work in hospitality and most people would say that's one of the most mentally draining 9-5s, and i would agree, I was however, very lucky in finding a position where my shifts only last 2-3 hours, and I'm not having to do much running around. But being a content creator is not for me. I have tried and i just found i got bored a day into it (i also hate editing) and found it was too slow for my brain, as i was already moving onto something else. I agree that creativity can be a big factor for a lot of people (me included) but I have found most other autistic girls prefer a desk to sit at, or a cafe to make coffee in whilst focusing their creative interests on hobby's outside of work. I think its also because a lot of people don't want to make a job out of their hobbies/ interests, in fear of falling out of love with it in the long run. I think they are such different ways of life that the pros and cons are so different for others, that there is no definite "harder job." lets just all be naked in a field and eat berries.

Georgarie

2025-08-24 18:29:41 +0000 UTC

lowkey agree with jack - i would find it hard to be constantly creative for money even though im a really creative person- id much rather a structured and stable job

beabadoobee

2025-08-24 18:19:27 +0000 UTC

In my opinion I don’t think anyone can really say for sure if one is harder than the other, because a 9-5 and content creation are both hard and easy in completely different ways. With a 9-5 yes, you have stability and you don’t have to think about it all the time and like Jack said you can come home and switch off, but like Tommy said you don’t get much creative freedom with it. You are working for a company so obviously you’re told what to do, a lot of times what to wear and you have to always be kind to everyone even if they are horrible or rude to you. Some people may like their 9-5 but there will always be aspects of it that they won’t like and they can’t do anything about it as their income purely relies on that job (the same as content creation) And you could say if they’re don’t like their job they can get a new one but it’s harder than ever to even find a job nowadays. With content creation I wouldn’t say it’s any easier than a 9-5 as you have a lot of uncertainty and a LOT more personal pressure to get things right or to constantly work to make the best content possible that your audience will enjoy. But at the same time (as someone who’s only seen it from the surface) in my opinion there are a lot more positives to content creation than a 9-5. You have time flexibility, you have the ability to ignore or delete rude or horrible comments, you have freedom to be creative and make whatever you like and express yourself through your craft. Even though some things may be out of your control whilst working as a content creator or there’s parts of the job you dislike there is always an option to change or improve parts of it, like for example when Jack didn’t enjoy content he was creating he made a whole new channel so that he could enjoy what he was making. Thing is you will always have a loyal and dedicated audience that will interact with anything you put out so you have massive amounts of flexibility there. I think they’re both as difficult as each other but just in different ways, was very interesting listening to you guys talk about this. Sorry if this is just pure waffle it’s just from my perspective as I do both a creative job and a 9-5 job on the side.

Becky

2025-08-24 18:11:40 +0000 UTC

i think jack hit the nail on the head for me with 'content creation is easier than a job you hate' and not inherently easier than a 9-5 you enjoy. i'm educated and a good worker but really struggling to find any at the moment, i'm also a hobbyist artist, so it's easy for me to see rich content creators and resent that i'm not in a similar situation, but i also recognise that i don't want to be. art is a hobby for me, and i don't have any drive to make it my job, i also adamently do not want any public attention that comes with that lol. if i get a commission every so often that's great! i just don't think i have enough of a creative well to dip into and consistently create for, hypothetically, the rest of my working life. some people do, though, and they need that as their primary work in life or else they'd be miserable. generally, i think successful content creation is harder socially (negative attention, increased chance of doxxing, higher standards of behaviour) while 9-5s are harder financially, but people do forget about the unsuccessful creators who are still trying and trying but never get to make it their job, or it takes fucking years before they do. i think chappell roan is a good example - before she blew up, she was broke and struggling to get by, then as she was blowing up people loved her story and stood by her, and since she's blown up and become rich, people have really turned on her for not fitting their personal opinions and standards, not on any basis of morality. i think a lot of people who say content creation is easy hate their job, are struggling financially, or are struggling to find any work at all. anyway this comment is really long and there's more i could say but i respect both of your opinions, and i think it ultimately depends on each person's life experience and what they prioritise in their work vs personal life. i don't prioritise art in work, but would simply combust if i didn't have any outlet for it at home. that's just me tho

olivia

2025-08-24 18:11:02 +0000 UTC

As someone who wants a creative job, I agree with jack, creative jobs can very often suck the joy you had originally completely out of it. It’s nice to switch off and be creative at home on your own terms

Mirandanator

2025-08-24 17:55:30 +0000 UTC

I agree with jack sorry tom , people really don’t care as much as you think about creative outlets in work x

imgonnastealjacksgf

2025-08-24 17:52:42 +0000 UTC

the later half of this episode felt like the parents fighting wolf meme lol

votejuno

2025-08-24 17:46:05 +0000 UTC

i feel like 9-5 is way to vague of a term. but content creation and regular jobs are hard in their own ways, just like any job would be, and i dont think its something that NEEDS to be compared bc at the end of the day whether something is difficult or not depends on the person who is doing the job. if u get what i mean? like if i HAD to give an answer i'd say content creation is harder mentally than it is physically if you compare it to working at Tesco, however i think being a doctor (or any super big and important jobs) are probably harder in both ways (mentally and physically) as u literally are in charge of keeping people alive

scarlett. 🎧 ও

2025-08-24 17:41:20 +0000 UTC

Ok, as someone who does both a creative long shot job (acting) and a normal 9-5 (librarian) I do agree with Jack, like I love acting, but when I’m in the thick of rehearsals it is such an intense and stressful job that it consumes every waking moment, whereas my job at the library, while intense during the shifts is able to be put out of my mind as soon as I leave the building.

The Anarchist Ocelot

2025-08-24 17:23:29 +0000 UTC

Tom is right. He just sucks at arguing and is focusing WAY too hard on creative stuff

Armaan Shahzad

2025-08-24 17:22:25 +0000 UTC

i dont like j*bs

noeywoey

2025-08-24 17:14:21 +0000 UTC

as someone who works a 9-5, I can say I'd wayyyyyyyy prefer doing this to content creation. I find my job fulfilling, and all the negatives that come with being a content creator would mess with my head. I think the most important thing isn't finding a job that creatively satisfies you, but finding a job that fulfills you and those can be two different things. which is harder depends on who you are and what you need.

james

2025-08-24 17:08:41 +0000 UTC

Guys can someone E-date me so I can be like my idol tommyinnit?

Richard

2025-08-24 16:58:22 +0000 UTC

Lowkey I do sometimes do patreon first and main second, just so I feel like I’m getting my money’s worth

The Anarchist Ocelot

2025-08-24 16:57:43 +0000 UTC

Joey badass in 2017-2019 and mid 2010s Skepta had an insane run those will always be peak to me

nat

2025-08-24 15:33:38 +0000 UTC

episode 50 let’s GO boys

Josh

2025-08-24 15:20:04 +0000 UTC

Jack did you get to keep the trumpet? please tell me you kept the trumpet

River_6

2025-08-24 15:06:35 +0000 UTC

Les go

Abonkus

2025-08-24 15:05:53 +0000 UTC

boombayah

beabadoobee

2025-08-24 15:02:11 +0000 UTC

can't wait for this one lads

willow

2025-08-24 15:02:06 +0000 UTC

Im so early they might think im a fan 😣

Lauren Black

2025-08-24 15:01:12 +0000 UTC

lil nutpig, old Ed Sheeran & comparison culture | patreon ep. 50

Comments

i genuinely thought he said deep heat bro T-T (after the whole spicy toothpaste thingy)

i usually just watch the patreons and then on another time the mains

Most people hate the 9-5 I’d say

To much love will kill you -Freddie Mercury famed BRITISH Artist.

i love when tommy dresses like shaggy from scooby doo

It's an interesting topic to discuss. In my opinion it all waters down to what your relationship with said job is like.

i think doing social media would be harder for me than a 9-5, it depends on the person. and it also depends a lot on which 9-5, its silly to group them all together.

Ooo Netherlands!! I flew to (also) see Tommy's first show! Glad to know I'm not the only crazy one

i would hate to be popular as a job and streaming kinda sounds like that

no he died and came back to life after a snow plow incident /gen

is Jeremy renner dead?

Ironic how Jack says how stressful his work is when he’s previously just mentioned he has the freedom to work at the beach.

there’s too many types of 9-5’s to even make this an argument in the first place, and i think most people would be doing creative things for jobs if they could

Agree with Tom a lot but also respect jacks nuance and approach to the question . Both can be right

that's as mental as eating dessert first. i do respect your enjoyment of the confusion though, that's mint

content is absolutely hard too, much harder to get into than a 9-5 and a lot more responsibility... but I think there's a lot more to take into account than Jack has

This is a really fun conversation to have and it's the first time I've seriously thought about that question

Genuinely it's been the only time he's annoyed me and come off as privileged as he is 😭

I also should mention that there are also a lot of people that don’t ever get the job they really want to do.

Peak house

I don’t think that’s fair. Creativity is what drives him I think he just maybe overestimates how many people are also creativity driven

It all depends on the individual. Please stop debating, it makes me sad. (Also, I agree with Jack)

I also think if imma be depressed from my job id rather be depressed and be able to live at least comfortably and get to create my art for a community of people who like my art to see.

Ed Sheeran I stand by is the greatest singer song writer of the 2000s. I will live and die on that hill

Well put

I think the monotonous nature of a 9-5 can also get really dark very quickly. For a lot of people, their 9-5 is also their life, but they don’t get to *choose* that and it’s not necessarily something they enjoy like with content creating

i aint readin that essay

Pretend this is some cool debate talk so I can fit in

the random harry cameo 😭 best of luck with the long distance relationship tom!

Shut up I’m talking boys hear eachother out challenge

forgot to cancel my subscription and this took the last of my money, thought id watch the video to make the most o fit, and was reminded of my parents divorce </3

Loved this episode <33, discussion at the end was very interesting.

lowkey agree with jack - i would find it hard to be constantly creative for money even though im a really creative person- id much rather a structured and stable job

As someone who wants a creative job, I agree with jack, creative jobs can very often suck the joy you had originally completely out of it. It’s nice to switch off and be creative at home on your own terms

I agree with jack sorry tom , people really don’t care as much as you think about creative outlets in work x

the later half of this episode felt like the parents fighting wolf meme lol

Tom is right. He just sucks at arguing and is focusing WAY too hard on creative stuff

i dont like j*bs

Guys can someone E-date me so I can be like my idol tommyinnit?

Lowkey I do sometimes do patreon first and main second, just so I feel like I’m getting my money’s worth

Joey badass in 2017-2019 and mid 2010s Skepta had an insane run those will always be peak to me

episode 50 let’s GO boys

Jack did you get to keep the trumpet? please tell me you kept the trumpet

Les go

boombayah

can't wait for this one lads

Im so early they might think im a fan 😣

More Creators

I think the monotonous nature of a 9-5 can also get really dark very quickly. For a lot of people, their 9-5 is also their life, but they don’t get to choose that and it’s not necessarily something they enjoy like with content creating