Channeler

The link doesn't work, by the way. 404 page.

Suzuki

The blog one. I'll add a link to the top here pointing everyone to that.

Mage Hand Press

There are some discrepancies between the blog version and this version, most notably there are more spells in the blog version. Which one is the more current version?

Noah Saint

Good to know thank you!

Justin Forkner

Yes, we can only reference SRD spells for things we release under the OGL which means no SCAG, EE, or XGTE. I'm not /sure/ which spells, if any, from those books would be appropriate for this class, so I can't give an excellent list. Anything that requires a spell attack roll is a good fit, however.

Mage Hand Press

Your answer to my previous question has lead me to another. For these spell lists are you only able to reference SRD spells? If so are there spells you would add to this class from Sword Coast Guide, Elemental Evil, the PHB and the soon to be released Xanathar's Guide?

Justin Forkner

Thank you!

Justin Forkner

That's the SRD nsme for Bigby's Hand.

Mage Hand Press

Where is the Arcane Hand spell located? It's on the Channeler spell list and I can't seem to find it.

Justin Forkner

I Think expanding the list with a few more unique spells would be pretty nice, something he would want to channel with his channeling ability. Because, at higher levels, you'll "only" channel Cantrips with it.

Kasai

Have to say the channeler might be my favorite class so far, fills a niche, very flavorfull and fun mechanics. Bravo!

Correct. So far, I haven't encountered any exploits bad enough to make us limit Spell Channeling to channeler spells only. You can get somewhat more powerful cantrips and spells by multiclassing, or through magic initiate, and they all work with Spell Channeling.

Mage Hand Press

Just looked back at my damage calculations and have to say I was wrong, the average damage is higher then the paladins. I wasn’t taking the damage boost to cantrips at higher levels into account. Are the cantrips from the « magic initiate » feat compatible with spell channeling? The wording seems to indicate they would be.

That's correct. You can channel the first attack, then make the others as ranged attacks. Of course, there's a fighting style here (Combat Casting) that removes the disadvantage.

Mage Hand Press

The cantrips would definitly give the channeler a small boost. Small question how doest spell channeler work with spells like Scorching Ray. I read it like you can channel the first attack normaly and then attack with 2 normal rays but with disadvantage if you’re in melee( unless youu have combat caster)

The round-by-round default damage of the Channeler is actually quite a bit higher than the paladin, especially at lower levels since you can always channel cantrips. Plus, the flexibility of spell points basically gives the channeler more spells per day, which means that you can deal higher single target damage more often. It's also got more spells on its list than the ranger or paladin, but I get your point: it still doesn't /feel/ like it does. I like your suggestion on principle (and I might use it to some extent later), but in general I don't want to tie any cantrips to the concentrations -- I'm afraid that'd muddy the waters as to what the concentrations are supposed to do: be a thing that uses your concentration, since you'll otherwise be using instantaneous spells. You're not the first one with this complaint, so I may do the following: - Expand the cantrip lists for each subclass, and give more cantrips (a number equal to a wizard.) - Expand the spell list with a few more spells, including a few more unique spells Do you think this is a step in the right direction?

Mage Hand Press

Meant firebolt fore plane of fire,shocking grasp for air:p

The cantrip and spell selection for this class seems a bit on low side for me. With paladin being able to cast smites spells with bonus action and use extra slots to divine smite, as well as later having improved divine smite it outclasses the channeler by a large margin, it gets worse if the paladin plays smart and waits for crits. So the paladin has more flexibility with spells more hp, heals, has better ac and more single target damage. i still like the channeler but he needs some more oomph.have you thought of giving access to certain cantrips when the channeler uses planar concentration? Say giving access to firebolt when you concentrate on elemental earth, shocking grasp for plane of air etc...

You kinda need both hands to do a spell's somatic components and swing a weapon, so we incorporated the AC buff into the elemental earth concentration. And I'm pretty happy with that, since it uses your concentration, rather than your second hand, to buff your AC. (Which helps the whole 'this class is best using versatile weapons' goal.)

Mage Hand Press

I thought the same thing. At or it should get that shield cantrip the warmage got.

Cody Butler

Also, the lack of shield proficiency is weird. It's usually tied to medium armor prof. But it's not like it's bad or anything. Just kinda weird.

John Hoffman

Ah, ok. Thanks!

Astrid Rigby

This simply wasn't a problem in playtesting -- we've playtested characters using both of these archetypes, and the duskblade character got better use out of cheap 5-foot teleportations than the dimensional magus got out of invisibility. The consideration to understand here is that the channeler has a pretty limited number of spell points, and it's possible to spend most of them very quickly, especially if you blow spells every turn. Therefore, a cheap, but short range teleport is almost always better to have on hand than an expensive medium range one, as long as you're not desperate for the movement speed.

Mage Hand Press

I think a glitch in the system so to speak is that Ethereal isn't a maintained effect. It's an instantaneous one. Making it kind of the odd duck out as its not something you would concentrate on but its place as PC means you need to end conc to use it. Perhaps you should add an additional passive benefit so its thematically something you would focus your concentration on and it has a unique advantage over Misty Step. Maybe something Reaction based to encourage maintaining it as a focus? Or a trailing effect after you teleport that lasts till the beginning of your next turn? Something to make it thematically sustained as a "stance".

Michael Doyle

Spell channeling only replaces spell attacks; melee attacks are not the same as spell attacks, even if they're called for by a spell. So you simply couldn't channel that spell.

Mage Hand Press

How does Spell Channeling work if you are channeling a spell that requires you to make a melee attack already in the spell, like if you multiclassed warmage and used the cantrips that are in their spell list

Avaister

Well, misty step is certainly a useful ability, but scaling it down basically gives you a very cheap bonus action Disengage, since you can get out of reach without triggering OAs (plus you can escape grapple and all that). If you ignore all the other fun things you can do with teleportation, this alone makes the scalable nature of the Duskblade's version of misty step far more appealing; you can just throw it up whenever you need, and you can do it like three times as often as the full spell.

Mage Hand Press

You've got one concentration -- you can concentrate on a spell or on a planar concentration, but not both.

Mage Hand Press

I have to say, I'm really loving this class, but I have a dumb question. Could you concentrate on a spell and have a Planar Concentration up? If so, do you make two concentration saves, one for the spell and one for the Planar Concentration, or one?

Astrid Rigby

Ethereal is scaled to Misty Step in terms of point cost while Misty Step is on the spell list. ( 3 points = 2nd level spell = 30 feet )? So its basically a tweakable distance Misty Step. Shadowfel on the other hand is a superior Invisibility spell for combat purposes for 1 point while Invisibility is not on the spell list. Seems kind of like Dimensional Magus can have its cake ( take Misty Step ) and eat it too if less efficiently since the spell would cost 3. While Duskblade can't replicate the reverse? Perhaps I'm reading it wrong. Just seems like one archtype is getting something unique to spend its points on ( 1 point bonus action invisibility ) while the other is basically freeing up a spell choice. ( No need for Misty Step ). Yes, it can do cheap short range teleports but it doesn't feel like a unique ability since its spending the same resource you would use to cast Misty Step anyhow and Misty Step is available. I don't know. Feel free to hit me if I'm wrong or missing the design intent. >.>

Michael Doyle

I'm willing to make some changes here, but let's discuss what should be changed and what should be left with a bonus action. I'm willing to get rid of the bonus action to change concentrations, but I think I should leave the one to activate them, so there's a punishment built in for losing your concentration in the middle of a fight. Two of the Greater Concentrations (Limbo and Underworld) are designed to be used alongside normal attacks, but not channeling (for balance reasons), so they have a bonus action to make them mutually-exclusive. What else should I look at changing?

Mage Hand Press

So this class has a weird split if you're talking about the strictly most optimal damage route. Using two attacks is normally slightly more damaging than channeling, but channeling also gains you whatever side abilities that the spell has. When you hit 11th level, however, things get silly. Originally, we gave you two attacks, in addition to your channeling, which was ultimately too much damage. That being said, we still wanted that level to provide some level of reassurance in getting your channeling to connect, which is why it was switched to just granting advantage+Int mod. Now, at higher levels, the primary reason you'd be using Extra Attack is in conjunction with the Limbo and Underworld concentrations, so it moves to more of a backup ability. It's not ideal, since you no longer have Extra Attack as a pretty viable option all the time, but it maintains damage numbers in a balanced area, which is more important at the end of the day.

Mage Hand Press

There's just really not a lot of attack roll spells in 5th edition. That being said, we did expand the spell list a little to help with that, but it might be that we need to add a few more spells to the list.

Mage Hand Press

imo and i might be completely wrong about this, but it seems to me that the level 5 ability is now pretty much useless when you think about it. In the earlier version you could eventually do 1 cantrip and 2 melee weapon attack, but now since the level 11 ability changed you can no longer do this. Lets say you you are level 5 and you have 18 of STR or DEX for your melee attack. Would you rather use the Spellstrike ability to do 1d8+4 (rapier or Longsword) + 2d8 (Shocking Grasp) for a total of 3d8+4 OR do 2d8 + 8? Yes you have an higher minimum damage with the 2 melee attack, but when you'll hit lvl 11 you'll never use Extra attack ever again which seems like a wasted ability. Unless i am mistaken at which point, please correct me and show me why. But, thank you for officially releasing this class. I play this in 1 of my game and it clear up a lot of thing.

Kasai

Some players of mine tried running the earlier version of this class in two different one-shots I was DMing recently, and we noticed that there aren't a lot of spells on the spell list that actually use spell attacks. For this reason, along with using bonus actions for switching concentrations, there was only one instance over several combat encounters in which a character used spell channeling. I'm not too familiar with the 5e spell list, but I'm sure there must be more spells that actually require attack rolls? As it is it feels like the character can't really focus on what it is built to do.

EthnicElvis

I really like the flavor of the class. Gishes are my favorite thing to play. That being said, I feel like this uses way too many bonus actions. I know I brought this up last time y'all presented this, but it's hard to get around it. Four of the five Higher level options are active abilities, meaning you have to activate them. Which means spending you bonus action to switch to that style or walking around with them as the default. And any time you want to use them, you have to spend a bonus action to do so. Which means if you want to use an option in combat that isn't already on, you have to spend two turns setting it up. And during those two turns you can't do the thing the channeler should be doing: channeling.

John Hoffman