Warden
Added 2016-11-01 05:00:27 +0000 UTCThe warden was a mountain, his feet immovable and his shield unbreakable.
Wardens are vigilant guardians, and unbreakable defenders of the weak. They are nature’s shield, and the watchers of the realms of men. When the world cries out for a champion, wardens heed the call.
The Warden represents the first proper Defense / Control class ever in 5th edition. It excels in not only surviving oncoming hordes of foes, but also in locking down enemies to shelter the party from harm. Like the witch, this class is eventually destined for a wider release, but it comes to you, loyal patron, early.
Also this month, be sure to check out our other release, All Patrons Eve, a spooky book of warlock patrons. And, if you're running a campaign in the harsh desert, check back in on the Waste Update. We went back and added two whole new pages of spells just for you all!
You can find the most up-to-date version of this class here!
Changelog
- 11/8/16: Proficiencies: All wardens now get proficiency with medium armor
- Warden's Mark: Damage scaling removed
- Sentinel's Stand: Armor Proficiency: Changed to heavy armor
- Sentinel's Stand: Unarmored Defense: Replaced with Indomitable
- Ancient Instincts: Replaced with Duel
- Fighting Style: Crippling: Speed penalty increased to 10 feet
- Sentinel's Step: Features completely changed. New features are Earthstrength,
- Thundering Charge, and Wildblood
- Sentinel's Soul: Eyes of the Earth: Renamed Eyes of the Mountain: No bonus proficiency
- 11/14/16: Sentinel's Step: Formitable removed, replaced with Stalwart Spirit
- Duel: Triggered when you make a melee weapon attack, not as a bonus acrion
- Font of Life: Moved to 4th level
- Defiant: Added at 6th
- Eyes of the Mountain: Tremorsense 15 feet
Comments
Hey guys, I didn't realize that you had stopped posting updates to this patreon post when you posted it publicly on the website. It would be nice if you could keep the patreon posts updated as well, so I don't have to compare the PDFs of either location to find the latest version. It would also be nice if the PDFs had some sort of date in them somewhere so I can figure out what version I have easily.
Andrew Bahls
2017-03-22 21:28:34 +0000 UTCI just tested the class again last night and I can confirm it feels much more like what I'd imagine it to! Great job, guys! And the Dex save and +5' movement works well as a Sentinel's Stand option as well. Here's hoping to an update reflecting that change when you guys get a moment to playtest it yourselves.
David Ramey
2016-11-24 19:55:53 +0000 UTCI'm leaning towards proficiency in Dexterity and a 5 foot bonus to movement speed, but I haven't had the chance to test anything in game.
Mage Hand Press
2016-11-18 18:20:32 +0000 UTCOut of curiosity, which alternative Stand option are you leaning towards? If you've had a chance to test it.
David Ramey
2016-11-18 17:37:42 +0000 UTCYou're absolutely right. I don't even know if that was a holdover from earlier drafts or just a mistake on my part -- either way, tremorsense makes more sense.
Mage Hand Press
2016-11-14 22:31:57 +0000 UTCI definitely want this to be an at-will option. The idea is an option to just to hunker down and /absorb/ some amount of damage. The trick here is figuring out how many temp hit points are permissible for an at-will action kind of thing.
Mage Hand Press
2016-11-14 22:30:50 +0000 UTCI also think it makes more sense for Eyes of the Mountain to give you Tremorsense to 30 feet
Sasquatch
2016-11-14 21:44:35 +0000 UTCDefiant actually seems kinda weak, maybe have you gain twice your Warden level + Con mod whenever any ally is downed
Sasquatch
2016-11-14 21:42:11 +0000 UTCI love all of these changes! As far as the change to Sentinel's Stand, I can't quite tell exactly what it's supposed to do because of a typo. I like the Defiant feature, but I'd also like to see it accompanied by some flavor text. I agree that it's probably balanced out by the fact that it's an Action, especially considering the revised Mystic gets temporary hit points much, much more easily.
David Ramey
2016-11-14 21:37:03 +0000 UTCMore changes! I'd like some feedback on the Defiant feature. I know it's powerful right now, but I'm wagering that using your action to do it is actually a pretty sizable trade.
Mage Hand Press
2016-11-14 18:10:30 +0000 UTCI like the improvements! One thing to note, though, is that Sentinel’s Step: Armor Proficiency still says Medium. However, I still feel like this class is lacking some oomph, I just can't place my finger on it. It's mainly for the higher levels, but I haven't played it at a higher level yet, so maybe it's just me.
David Ramey
2016-11-08 16:22:46 +0000 UTCEdits! I got some good feedback and have made some changes to what seemed to be problem areas. Let me know what you all think!
Mage Hand Press
2016-11-08 07:49:28 +0000 UTCI think you actually hit on some of the big design principles that went into making this class, but let me respond to your questions in turn: Sentinel's: This trio of features isn't supposed to be hugely thematic on their own. Rather, they're more like a choose-your-own-adventure for levels of the class which needed to be relegated to conventionally passive abilities. Stand and Soul needed to be defensive, and Step needed to be exploration-based. This provides the player a pretty large measure of control over their build, which hopefully makes the entire package play better as a standalone class. If I replaced these with single features, they couldn't reasonably be more powerful than any of the options, so using established mechanics and offering a choice works by increasing the flexibility of the class. Ancient Instincts: This was by far the hardest thing in the class to write, in spite of the fact that it's just a ribbon. The idea here is that, if you follow the Ready action rules in 5e, a creature can't prepare to do more than an action or a move when they Ready. This means that if a creature has a readied action to pop out, they can't also attack during that event. Effectively, this should shore you up against the most common type of ambush event. Dice + Point Mechanics: A lot of people have mentioned using maneuver dice, hit dice, or a point pool to control this guy's performance in combat, which inadvertently is related the larger design goals with this class. I wanted the Warden to feel like it belongs in core, with simple, expressive, and powerful mechanics, that aren't limited or bogged down by other systems. A fighter or a barbarian doesn't need to rely on charges or expendable dice to do their job, and neither should the warden. I plan on adding measures of complexity, like a maneuver system with dice and a 1/3 spellcasing system, to different archetypes later on, but it was important to prove that the core class features like Grasp and Mark work when the whole thing is stripped down. Hope that answers some questions and gives some insight into the design that went into this.
Mage Hand Press
2016-11-07 06:07:23 +0000 UTCI love most of the class, but I think some of the abilities are a bit fiddly and lacking in flavor. The "Sentinel's X" features seem like you just couldn't find unique or interesting Warden abilities, and stuffed in a choice of other abilities instead; Ancient Senses is incredibly strange, such that I cannot parse what it does in the world. Why can I detect creatures prepared to ambush me, but not creatures who are hiding and prepared to leap out, THEN ambush me? I think the class could do with a more unique feature set, maybe do something with hit dice, like spending them in combat or adding a one time choice of mental stat. If you could do more quakey, battlefield manipulation stuff, you could simplify Sentinel's Step to just ignoring difficult terrain. Just spitballing here, otherwise I love this idea.
FrostGremlin
2016-11-06 22:15:14 +0000 UTCA lot of the Warden's power comes from how unlimited his abilities tend to be. In my mind, that's what separates casters from martials - casters have to take a rest, and martials just keep going. The battlemaster is a perfect example of this. It's an adaptation of the 3.5 Warblade, which used maneuvers that were structured almost exactly like spells in order to provide an analogous and system for critically weak martials in that edition. Yet, that entire book is a real divisive thing for the 3.5 community. On one hand, it makes martials playable, but on the other, they don't feel like martials anymore. I really wanted this to feel badass when you play it, so I hope that comes through. No waiting for a rest to take a short nap and recover dice (at least not in the base class - we might do maneuver dice in a subclass later on.) Honestly, I don't think the Warden would feel the same if you couldn't Grasp every round. That ability is almost passive because of its bonus action requirement, and it really defines how the class plays. The warlord (which is under construction right now) probably fits what you're talking about a little more closely. The biggest thing I need to refine with more playtesting is to see if I should give the base class medium armor (with an option for heavy.) Right now, the class is very tanky, but most of its options (intentionally) sacrifice AC from armor.
Mage Hand Press
2016-11-05 07:10:04 +0000 UTCAfter parsing the information a bit more, I keep getting the feeling that this class feels a bit underpowered... Like a half caster that had Spellcasting taken away. Maybe it's just me or I'm viewing this in the wrong light, but I'm seeing a lack of "commander-esque" abilities, meaning things like Battle Master has Commander's Strike, Goading Attack, etc. Allow me to propose a compromise to that and the Compelled Duel dilemma: Superiority Dice, or an analog of them for the Warden. Keep it martial, but add utility and group support to this highly defensive class option. I may even homebrew myself something for my group based on this. I'd turn Warden's Grasp into a maneuver of sorts (giving this class a larger dice pool than Battle Master, because fighter gets a lot of stuff on its own anyway...) and pop it in at 2nd level, in line with the progression of other half casters. Just my proposal/suggestion. I'm interested if you guys had considered that option, as I know you've got an extensive testing process. Edit: Even if it has to be limited to a once per turn ability (as spells and most of their analogs are), I feel that this would fit the class perfectly.
David Ramey
2016-11-05 06:50:47 +0000 UTCYou know, in early drafts I actually had compelled duel as something you could cast at will. The class felt very different in that form -- it was more mystical, with a much more druidy vibe about it. Later edits made it more martial, and focused more on locking down groups of enemies, and the compelled duel effect was wrapped into Warden's Mark before it was cut entirely. Being able to use it at will had some easy exploits that I was worried about introducing. I think that particular spell might crop up again in some future subclasses. The first subclass feature is largely intended to augment the mark in some way, and adding a duel-like mechanic is definitely something I'll be adding in one of them.
Mage Hand Press
2016-11-04 07:15:34 +0000 UTCI absolutely love the idea and the execution, but I feel there's just one ability to be desired (at least from my playtest of the class), some sort of Compelled Duel or otherwise taunt-based ability. Without it I feel like I need to dip into Battle Master to get the Goading Attack maneuver (which honestly is a great multiclass idea with this class anyway, but still). But even still, loving the class! I can't wait for the Storm Sentinel archetype, it would fit one of my current characters like a glove to multiclass into Warden for it (currently an exclusively shield-wielding Battle Master, whose only offensive ability is shield bashing and the maneuver that allows your allies to attack in place of you). Edit: Actually the Lorekeeper idea from that previous comment sounds perfect... a wizard-y 1/3rd caster-type.
David Ramey
2016-11-04 06:23:08 +0000 UTCThis feature was actually ripped directly from the Fighter (champion) feature of the same name. You're right, though, that seems really weird. I'll check if it was eratta'd Edit: Not in the eratta, so I'm going to leave it alone, even though I agree that it seems pretty weak.
Mage Hand Press
2016-11-04 01:51:33 +0000 UTCI have designs on a Storm Sentinel already, but an earth/quake dude could be really sweet as well.
Mage Hand Press
2016-11-04 01:49:34 +0000 UTCI'd love to see an earth/thunder/quake style Warden archtype, It was my jam back in the day for my Earth genasi.
Hans Watts
2016-11-03 23:07:41 +0000 UTCFor Sentinel's Step's Remarkable Athlete, I was wondering if Modifier is what you intended, as that adds a maximum of only +5 feet to a jump, equivalent to one square in most grid based campaigns. Which makes it not very useful in most scenarios until you have nearly maxed your strength.
Pioneer1111
2016-11-02 01:41:42 +0000 UTCYup that's a typo. Good note.
Mage Hand Press
2016-11-01 17:05:41 +0000 UTCLooks great! Hopefully I'll have a chance to playtest it! On a sidenote, Champion's Call says it grants a 10 lvl feature, but nothing is presented in the subclasses. A typo?
Temirlan Kurmanguzhin
2016-11-01 10:25:08 +0000 UTCWe will be adding subclasses once we're really sure this is balanced and playtested. Keeping it to two archetypes at release makes comprehensive playtesting much easier. I've got a few ideas for more archetypes right now, but I'm being careful to write them around the idea that a Warden is called to defend /something/. A sun bro could be fun (Praise the Sun and whatnot), but what could he defend? If you've got an idea, let me know.
Mage Hand Press
2016-11-01 08:01:52 +0000 UTCI have to say I am very impressed with the Warden. Will you be adding any other subclasses to it? Such as one of the sunlight or perhaps one who protects against the misuse of magic? I don't know much about old wardens from back when, but I am curious about their connection to the natural world.
Richard Belmont Potts III
2016-11-01 05:38:30 +0000 UTC
