Target Audience / UNCUT - Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country

I love this movie. The best ending we could have hoped for. We would never get anything close to this today.

GeorgeReevesSupermanFan

2025-02-02 15:27:43 +0000 UTC

Star Trek Generations (7) 1994 is good. Star Trek First Contact (8) 1996 is the best.

Allen D. Warren, MSEd

2025-02-02 04:27:38 +0000 UTC

Great film. Saw it six times in theatres....was very relevant for it's time

Allen D. Warren, MSEd

2025-02-02 04:26:22 +0000 UTC

Worf, son of Mogh, son of Worf.

Allen D. Warren, MSEd

2025-02-02 04:25:32 +0000 UTC

Colonel Worf is Worf's grandfather

Allen D. Warren, MSEd

2025-02-02 04:24:52 +0000 UTC

Movie VI to me has always felt like an Epilogue to the original cast. If the six movies were books: two of the films are additional content and four of the films are the main series. Movie I is the Prologue, good film, gives a flavour of the cast & genre yet not essential for a rewatch. Movies II ~ V all happen roughly within the same year. Narratively speaking there is little gaps of time between each one. Then as I've said Movie VI is the many year afterwards Epilogue that you can miss if you want.

Lost&Found

2025-01-20 23:33:18 +0000 UTC

I enjoy 5 alot. It's very character driven. :)

Lost&Found

2025-01-20 23:25:13 +0000 UTC

I think the hype for this film was driven by the fact that Nicholas Meyer directed it, that last Captain's Log scene, and the signatures coming across the screen, kicking into the emotions because it really does say, "We're done. This is the end." I do love the crew shot, if nothing else - Sulu's customary chair is not just empty, but torn. Great symbolism for his absence. Beyond that, it's watchable and enjoyable, but nowhere near the level of Wrath of Khan. When it came out many of us fans called it "Star Trek VI: The Apology", because they HAD to do one more after the disaster of Star Trek V. It also suffered from the budget cuts that every movie after TMP suffered, and the sense that things were visually vaguely familiar, but wrong (because they reused TNG sets for almost every shot off the bridge). And there were things that we wouldn't expect our characters to do. From the ridiculous "we have to use books because the translator would be recognised" when Uhura - the most talented communications and linguistics officer in Starfleet - was RIGHT there to that forced mind meld between Spock and Valeris. According to lore, that mind meld was - to a Vulcan - akin to rape. Spock wouldn't ever have done that. And the film was peppered with other moments like that. Scotty's "I bet that Klingon bitch killed her father", and to the general racism amongst the crew. None of it felt like OUR crew, who always found a way to rise above bigotry. Tidbits: I had a copy of the original script and, while most of it was essentially the same, it would have made matters even worse, as the character of Valeris was, in that script, Saavik. I'm glad they made THAT change, but I already knew what was coming before the film debuted, so at least I was prepared for the disappointment. Christian Slater got the part of the Lieutenant talking to Sulu because he was a massive Star Trek fan and begged for any role they'd give him.

Uileag MacAmhairghin

2025-01-19 06:19:08 +0000 UTC

I have always disliked this movie. Never understood why people like it so much. Hell, I liked 5 more than this one.

Molly Campbell

2025-01-18 03:17:24 +0000 UTC

Hmm I never really thought about it but it’s true. I think things move fast for the she of brevity.

Philbot

2025-01-17 13:45:09 +0000 UTC

I saw that on VHS 📼 when I rented it at age 12 but not in theaters I was like huh? My first Mandela effect?

Philbot

2025-01-17 06:53:45 +0000 UTC

Joven - totally fair. I happen to find how films reflect history to be intriguing, and how the medium reflects contemporary political history is even more interesting when looking back at it than in the moment. Kirk says at the end of ST6 that for some the end of the conflict with the Klingons means "the end of history," and I see that today in reactions to current wars and in political leadership changes, but time of course marches on, and we as humans actually have little idea what will sustain and what will be forgotten. It's what makes the past a foreign country, to reference another saying. Seeing what the cultural fears were when a long status quo is upended... fascinating.

captveg

2025-01-16 09:27:03 +0000 UTC

I grew up watching this one on VHS and it always catches me out that the reveal of the Klingon at the end being Colonel West (“this is not Klingon blood…”) was a cut scene in most releases (it was very much there on the British VHS) - you can even see the blood is red after he falls out the window.

GratChat

2025-01-15 00:56:36 +0000 UTC

🤣🤣🤣

harrypothead42024

2025-01-13 19:33:13 +0000 UTC

I personally find DS9 to be peak Trek but each to his own. Sadly can't discuss the whys of it yet. They are inching ever closer to it though.

Sequiro

2025-01-13 01:35:04 +0000 UTC

I would honestly take the original TOS look over anything NuTrek.

Paul Noad

2025-01-13 00:09:26 +0000 UTC

This is my favorite original cast movie by a country mile. I'm a xennial - in my formative years when the Berlin Wall fell, and when this movie came out. A lot of Star Trek is about social commentary, but this is probably the one piece of Star Trek media that most resonated with world events that I was aware of and invested in at the time. It's really well-done and well-timed in that regard. That plus: 1. An engaging murder mystery 2. A couple Kirk/alien fights 3. Some cool scifi tech stuff expanding on existing Trek tech 4. Great acting performances by both main cast and new characters 5. A space battle with both personal and galactic stakes that is won through brains instead of firepower 6. It finally ties us in to where TNG starts with the Klingons 7. Worf's grandpa Worf defends Kirk and McCoy What more could you want from the final TOS movie? I also don't really get all the eye-rolling at the Shakespeare quotes. Christopher Plummer rocks, Shakespeare rocks, it's thematically appropriate, what's the damn problem? Probably my only big gripe is Uhura not being able to speak Klingon. They gave the finger to her entire decades-long career as a communications officer for the sake of a joke that didn't even make sense (why would they need paper books? And why can they not use the translator just on their end to understand before replying?)

Steve Boshear

2025-01-12 23:57:51 +0000 UTC

Yeah I’ve always noticed that. You can really feel it and probably contributes to the bland second act

Jon1701

2025-01-12 21:03:47 +0000 UTC

It is essentially the bridge movie as to how the Klingon Empire and Starfleet eventually become allies and find peace as the Organians predicted. This movie is the reason Worf can serve on the Enterprise D at all. And how the TNG era begins with Picard the warhorses of the previous 23rd century have to change and adapt and eventually die out. Camp Khitomer is the same name given to the Khitomer outpost Worf's parents were killed at. So it seem only appropriate that Worf's ancestor would be the defense counsel for Kirk and McCoy.

Kicked In The Dicebags

2025-01-12 17:54:18 +0000 UTC

It was always disturbing when she resists but I believe it was meant to be. Desperate times call for desperate measures. The need of the many…

Boston_Mike

2025-01-12 14:56:32 +0000 UTC

Ya, they didn’t like Hunt For Red October either. Maybe you had to live through the Cold War with the Soviet Union to feel the subtext of these films.

Boston_Mike

2025-01-12 14:53:59 +0000 UTC

I loved the scene where Spock and Kirk talk about getting old. It perfectly sums up the Star Trek films. It feels like watching your Mom and Dad aging, with all the good and bad that comes along with it. It's a different kind of Star Trek.

Matthew Jimenez

2025-01-12 10:07:36 +0000 UTC

i agreee the whole prison sequence sucked and the movie would have been better off if it was just deleted

JB

2025-01-12 07:57:04 +0000 UTC

Anyone ever notice the severe lack of establishing shots in this movie? It’s very noticable in the second act. We see the Enterprise after the dining scene and we don’t see it again until they are warping to Rura Penthe. There’s not a single establishing shot of a ship or planet in that time frame, when the movie is bouncing all over the place (Enterprise, Kronos One, Earth, Kronos for the trial, Excelsior, Rura Penthe). It’s a definite sign that this movie was made on a very tight budget, and most of the model work is saved for the third act of the film.

Column Meanie

2025-01-12 06:13:26 +0000 UTC

The YouTube comments are gonna be a bloodbath

JGoss

2025-01-12 04:59:49 +0000 UTC

I remember having the same reaction as Josh when I first saw it in the early 90s. I didn’t hate it but I was definitely disappointed. Over the years, I’ve only come to like it less and less and I’m more where Alex is now. It’s actually my least favourite of the first six movies. It does have some nice moments though. Sulu as captain is great, the scene with Kirk and Spock in Spock’s quarters is lovely, the visual effects are great, and I love the score.

Richard Stone

2025-01-12 04:21:25 +0000 UTC

Hard disagree. And even if that was true, as many people are discussing in the comments on this post, Josh & Alex's feelings so far are not slotting predictably into pre-existing fan opinion. After this reaction, I feel like anything is possible. They could hate DS9. They could both give 'Threshold' an S-tier rating. They could love Discovery. I have no idea what's going to click with them (which is honestly the silver lining for me in being kinda bummed they didn't click with this).

Kirkinson

2025-01-12 03:27:05 +0000 UTC

I saw this in the theater (as I did ever Trek film) and what I really loved was how Shatner played Kirk like I felt he did in TOS. It wasn't the more subdued lighthearted older guy. As soon as I heard him snap at Spock with, "DON'T believe them! DON'T trust them" I remember thinking YES Kirk is back. I've seen this one several times and enjoyed it yet again watching it just now. I even have my LaserDisc cover of this framed and mounted in my living room.

Boston_Mike

2025-01-12 03:19:48 +0000 UTC

Respectfully need to inform you that DS9 shits all over this movie. To pick this point to say "it's all downhill" is one of the takes of all time.

Spencer Loften

2025-01-12 01:51:52 +0000 UTC

So wrong.

Miah1138

2025-01-12 00:48:30 +0000 UTC

They've still got a lot of great stuff to go though. I mean there's all of DS9 for starters.

FPG

2025-01-11 23:38:50 +0000 UTC

Allegedly Cattrall had her Vulcan hair, ears and eyebrows on but nothing else in the photos. The other part of the story is that Leonard Nimoy found out and personally destroyed the photos. Nimoy was asked about this during fan Q&As at conventions and had denied knowing anything about it.

Rich Loga

2025-01-11 21:53:07 +0000 UTC

I hope your business model includes that you've already experienced peak Trek. While each series has its amazing episodes, overall its all downhill from here.

Alan Thompson

2025-01-11 21:52:49 +0000 UTC

That scene is disturbing.

Rich Loga

2025-01-11 21:34:37 +0000 UTC

The trilogy of Captain Sulu audio adventures with George Takei are full cast audio dramas. They were also recorded with binaural audio, meaning 3D spatial audio best experienced with headphones. In release order, they are 1. Transformations 2. Cacophony and 3. Envoy. Would recommend listening to them in that order, as opposed to starting with the final entry in the trilogy. The 3 audioplays are still available for purchase on iTunes and other platforms.

Matt Everkoul

2025-01-11 20:09:32 +0000 UTC

The Klingon lawyer defending Kirk and McCoy in the Klingon trial was Michael Dorn (Worf), his character Colonel Worf was the grandfather of Worf from Star Trek The Next generation

The_Truth

2025-01-11 19:56:08 +0000 UTC

We are on the same page. STMP was meh, II, III and IV were very good. I disliked V so much, I didn't watch VI until last week. They should have stopped with IV.

Dale Williams

2025-01-11 19:44:18 +0000 UTC

My point was more simple. I didn't think the movie was great and understanding the historical context didn't make the movie any better for me. It seems that Josh and Adam's dislike (or however you want to characterize it) of the film was dismissed because they didn't get the historical references. Maybe they didn't, but I did and agreed with their reaction to the movie. Maybe it just wasn't a great film; historical context notwithstanding.

Dale Williams

2025-01-11 19:39:15 +0000 UTC

If "being enthusiastic" has clear negative repercussions and you do it anyway, then it sure is child like. You're entitled to think differently of course but that's my opinion.

Oz

2025-01-11 19:33:25 +0000 UTC

There's more TOS media! There are a number of audiobook productions about Sulu as captain of the Excelsior, read by Takei himself. If you want to see (hear) more of him, I'd start with 'Envoy.' There are also plenty of TOS audiobooks with the original cast reading, so, there's still some media out there.

Artribution

2025-01-11 18:50:55 +0000 UTC

I agree with you about TWOK, but not about TUC. I think the cut scenes, two in particular that give a lot more context to the assassin that Scotty shot, are important.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-11 18:25:08 +0000 UTC

Oh, whew. That kinda thing got me for Dune Part 2. At one point it was just this really long scene of spoken fremin and reactions to it and I realized "okay, clearly I'm supposed to be following this." Just wish it wasn't an HOUR into the film. It's a pretty stupid thing studios are doing with their releases.

Nolan

2025-01-11 18:01:08 +0000 UTC

This thread actually seems civil. Calling people "whiners" isn't civil though.

Gaming the Systems

2025-01-11 17:51:25 +0000 UTC

Yes it was. Others have pointed out that for some reason on this 4K if you don’t have subtitles on it removes ALL subtitles, which is why it shows like that here. Luckily we always have subtitles on when we watch on the tv.

Josh (Target Audience)

2025-01-11 17:47:18 +0000 UTC

Question. I noticed at one point the spoken Klingon wasn't sub-titled in the symc clip whereas mine was? Was all the Klingon translated for you, or not?

Nolan

2025-01-11 17:15:02 +0000 UTC

Spoilers

startrekiborg

2025-01-11 17:02:08 +0000 UTC

Best post of this thread! I wish I could be as articulate. Nailed it!

Michael Metrick

2025-01-11 16:59:53 +0000 UTC

David Warner will return...

Michael Metrick

2025-01-11 16:55:46 +0000 UTC

Because now, it's offensive to hate your enemies... 😂

Michael Metrick

2025-01-11 16:52:58 +0000 UTC

Derek, really? Such garbage?

Michael Metrick

2025-01-11 16:51:29 +0000 UTC

I'll be gone long before you start watching modern Trek. Watching you guys react to garbage isn't in my future.

Michael Metrick

2025-01-11 16:50:38 +0000 UTC

You never know...

Michael Metrick

2025-01-11 16:48:49 +0000 UTC

Stop with the ridiculous attacks of racism. It's a movie for God's sake. Aren't they allowed to hate their enemies?

Michael Metrick

2025-01-11 16:47:15 +0000 UTC

Derek - I'm a Gen Xer too! 😊. I'm not really sure why this one doesn't resonate with me. I normally love story driven serious sci-fi! Maybe part of the issue is that this movie has such a different 'feel' to the first five it almost feels like a different timeline. I'm sorry.. I wanted to love it but I just don't

Alan F

2025-01-11 16:13:13 +0000 UTC

If you can play a disc your local library might have it. I have the Blu-ray set with all the TOS and TNG movies and have never watched any of the TNG ones, although since I personally don't avoid spoilers I pretty much know at least part of what happens in all of them.

KatWithAttitude

2025-01-11 16:02:24 +0000 UTC

430 comments! Wow! 😲😲😲

Jovet

2025-01-11 16:01:29 +0000 UTC

Well, there were 110 effects shots in the script. They cut that in half. They were also limited on sets and extras. The Kitomer conference was desired to be a massive hall with hundreds of people. If you notice its very small. And Nick Meyer wanted $35 million instead of the $25 million they would give him. Its on Memory Aloha. You can find the article.

Chris S.

2025-01-11 15:59:35 +0000 UTC

I was going to watch the reaction but I can't find the film anywhere to stream for free, so I'm out of luck.

Jovet

2025-01-11 15:58:18 +0000 UTC

I don't really care for 6, didn't enjoy 5 much, and 1 was ...really odd. Not bad, not great. Just WEIRD.

Jovet

2025-01-11 15:57:48 +0000 UTC

I think the quiet was the emotion of realizing they were watching the last TOS movie and weren't enjoying it.

Justin B

2025-01-11 15:24:23 +0000 UTC

yup!

Josef Nitervol

2025-01-11 15:20:02 +0000 UTC

It's certainly not a Marvel movie. And I think, ultimately, what modern audiences want is a marvel movie. Something that doesn't take itself seriously and is full of goofy comic relief and characters hamming it up. The boomers grew up on black and white movies... And I think what boomers ultimately wanted was a simple story with black hats and white hats where the white hat always wins, and there's a happy ending with the music swelling. Different generations grow up on different things.

Aaron Wells

2025-01-11 15:15:56 +0000 UTC

I'm not sure I'm going to watch the reaction. After seeing the movie for the first time a couple weeks ago and not being really impressed and then reading through some of the comments I can't really work up any enthusiasm for it.

KatWithAttitude

2025-01-11 15:14:08 +0000 UTC

Oh, come on. It's being DISCUSSED. That's the nature of this sort of content. We all pay to see this stuff. If they were just cheerleading and saying everything they saw was awesome, instead of giving honest opinions, it would be boring and disingenuous. I gripe about it, but I actually greatly appreciate the perspective of these guys, since they're coming at this without a lifetime of fandom coloring their view. It's actually refreshing. That said, part of what makes it fun, is the contrast. Seeing what they're going to like an dislike. I've been completely surprised and completely unsurprised... And much like watching a show for the first time, it better to not know what's going to happen. This is react content. We are reacting to their reactions. Which is fine. We don't have to be positive or negative about their reactions, any more than they have to be positive or negative about THEIR reactions.

Aaron Wells

2025-01-11 15:11:56 +0000 UTC

Sometimes people get it. There's that great big long scene in the motion picture where Kirk and Scotty just kind of fly around and look at the Enterprise refit wordlessly, with awesome music playing in the background. There's absolutely zero chance in hell something like that would make it into a modern movie, even a modern Trek movie. But they understood the importance of the ship to the audience.

Aaron Wells

2025-01-11 15:06:22 +0000 UTC

Exactly. They are main characters in star trek. The Enterprise is just as central to star trek as is the main star/captain of each show and movie. And so much love and work went into that aspect of star trek, especially during the TNG and 90s era. Not just the design of the ships and special effects but the work in the tech manual and writers guide and having science advisors etc..things that more often than not are really lacking in current star trek

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 14:35:41 +0000 UTC

Yeah, the ship thing is concerning. The technical nerdy stuff is actually really important to a lot of Trek fans. In Star Trek, the ships and the technology are some of the key parts of the lore. It's kind of like people who are into naval history... It's not just what the people on the ships do, It's also the ships themselves that are a tremendous factor in what generates all that passion. People build build models of the HMS Victory or USS Constitution not because they're so focused on Trafalgar, orr the War of 1812, but because they think the ships themselves are interesting.

Aaron Wells

2025-01-11 14:29:44 +0000 UTC

Don't get me wrong, I prefer VI overall, it's just that the trilogy of II-IV are so crazy good that the other three fall flat for me in a way. There's stuff to like and not like in I, V, and VI

Ian Meyers

2025-01-11 14:26:17 +0000 UTC

How is Star Trek VI on the same level as V that's madness 😂

ShazD

2025-01-11 14:23:11 +0000 UTC

We definitely need battles.

Boggle

2025-01-11 14:10:37 +0000 UTC

I'll agree, to a point. As I said, I was twenty and I didn't get it at the time, but the older adults did, like my parents. But, I get it now.

startrekiborg

2025-01-11 14:08:42 +0000 UTC

Y'all started a damn civil war in these comments! ST VI is fine...same realm for me as 1 and 5. This is coming from a 20 year old fan that started out with TNG. So, like you guys, I didn't have the historical context behind it when it was released. Glad you guys got some enjoyment out of it and sticking to your guns when it comes to opinions against the grain. This was hyped up way too much though. This amount of hype undoubtedly will lead to some disappointment, just some food for thought to all of you guys screaming about how much they will love X and Y, but hate Z.

Ian Meyers

2025-01-11 13:57:25 +0000 UTC

Yup, well, they can care about plots and allegories and all that but only if they first care about the characters. It's the inverse for me. I can care about the characters but usually only if the plot is gripping enough.

Paul

2025-01-11 13:30:54 +0000 UTC

@Derek: It's a variation of "Mars," not a ripoff. This is a silly criticism, as every other epic-sounding score pulls the underlying beat from "Mars". You can find that beat beneath TONS of great films. I am a huge classical music music fan (along with Holst's "The Planets") and this doesn't bother me in the slightest. Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

Lovok

2025-01-11 13:28:38 +0000 UTC

@Spencer Loften You should watch it again.

Jovet

2025-01-11 13:21:03 +0000 UTC

TNG is a tv show. If one of the TNG movies is them playing around in the holodeck I’d be disappointed.

Josh (Target Audience)

2025-01-11 13:17:58 +0000 UTC

Being enthusiastic and looking forward to their enthusiasm and enjoyment is not inherently child like

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 13:17:53 +0000 UTC

It’s amazing how the ships in these movies and their TNG remasters look so much better than most of the current ship scenes star trek has today in the new shows. Like I can actually see the ships, properly lit against the blackness and star field with longer lingering shots of large capital ships moving majestically and not zipping and spinning and making weird sounds and blurry quick cuts and distant far away glimpses etc

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 13:16:01 +0000 UTC

I’m fascinated people find it pedestrian and subdued given the severity and magnitude of the events of the plot. Perhaps its a generational thing for this gen X cold warrior lol

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 13:12:48 +0000 UTC

Ya that is something that I find rather unique about them and also frustrating to understand lol. I cant comprehend enjoying something as much as they do purely for the characters and with such little investment in the plots and politics and allegories and science 🤷‍♂️

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 13:10:55 +0000 UTC

Unpopular opinion: we as a community need to tone down the hype. Seems everything that comes down the pike is “best moment of Star Trek evah!” And that is a really fast way to ruin anticipation.

tyranusfan

2025-01-11 13:10:20 +0000 UTC

I mean this IS a discussion thread and forum about the movie and their reaction…so your point about diversity should also apply to yourself before advising anyone to insert foot coverings called socks into ones face hole🤷‍♂️

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 13:08:13 +0000 UTC

I’ve delayed my watch as well. I was going to as soon as I got home from work Friday but seeing the comments I figured I didn’t want to be disappointed after the week I’ve had. I’ll probably watch tonight or tomorrow.

tyranusfan

2025-01-11 13:07:49 +0000 UTC

I recall reading someone (possibly here?) comment that there was a slight difference in the actual only in theatrical release and/or vhs ..that had ships computer dialogue when the torpedo surgery was occurring and it makes Bone’s comment I’d give real money if she shut up, make more sense. But the couple additional minutes in the presidents office in the directors cut, I don’t really recall making it a better or worse of a movie. But curious to hear how you like it on re watch

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 13:06:02 +0000 UTC

Pretty old? I mean there are TONS of things in pop culture that predate most people and are quite recognizable. And I mean the tv show Sherlock, starring a rather famous actor was on from 2010 to 2017🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 12:53:40 +0000 UTC

Sure I'll rewrite a 35yr old movie on the fly for you because I didn't like it as much as you did and it bugs you a bit, heh. The whole point of the prison arc was to show what Kirk was doing while the Enterprise looked for the boots. Just have the Enterprise rescue Kirk and Bones while they are still in transit to the prison. Then Klingon (and maybe Federation) ships can hunt them in a hide and seek chase through a couple systems before the Enterprise manages to evade them and head to Khitomer. The rest of the movie can stay the same, really.

Boggle

2025-01-11 12:34:53 +0000 UTC

😆 🤣 😂

Robert Edelmann

2025-01-11 12:27:51 +0000 UTC

And funny, well done Ferengi episodes! With great casting of people of this race. Starting with Armin Shimerman as Quark.

Robert Edelmann

2025-01-11 12:12:38 +0000 UTC

I get what you are doing here. ;) Iceland wasn't a secret meeting. And navy fleets were in the area from both NATO and the Warsaw Pact. Also, civilian traffic in and out of the island remained constant and normal. Cuba and the US really isn't the same scale, but okay. Secret meetings over months in several locations. None of which shut down their airports or ports to stop normal traffic. Khitomer would still have had incoming ships and outgoing ones. Or at the very least the ships that brought all of the important people would still have been hanging out in orbit or nearby. to think otherwise is mind-boggling. Especially after the Klingon Chancellor had just been assassinated. I mean, I get it, it was obviously a financial or FX issue or just ignored but it's definitely something that should have been handled better than the usual ST "We are the only ship within range!" trope that they always seem to go to. It is what it is. And what it is imo is a mediocre movie with a decent third act. And I LOVE ST and still think that. shrugs

Boggle

2025-01-11 12:10:50 +0000 UTC

@Worf and Riker Ride Again I guess I must have! Also not for me. But I can say the same for 7 too.

Jovet

2025-01-11 12:10:29 +0000 UTC

I'm convinced the whole film was written around that one scene.

Jovet

2025-01-11 12:06:51 +0000 UTC

@Steven Johnson John M. mentioned "Darmok"

Jovet

2025-01-11 12:03:17 +0000 UTC

I thought it was alright although i've only seen it once and that was over a decade ago. I think I gave it something like a 7 on first watch. I was considering going back to watch it again but their review is giving me second thoughts.

Spencer Loften

2025-01-11 11:59:04 +0000 UTC

🤦

Jovet

2025-01-11 11:54:36 +0000 UTC

Remember, DS9 had something that carries over from TNG to keep Alex and Josh watching.

Robert Edelmann

2025-01-11 11:54:22 +0000 UTC

And the trailer made it look like Kirk was vaporized. Of course it was Iman but still.

Robert Edelmann

2025-01-11 11:49:01 +0000 UTC

I'm of the mind to see a film to FORGET current political machinations. I don't need to pay money to be lectured to, preached to, shat on, or even re-live real life. That is not entertainment, for me.

Jovet

2025-01-11 11:49:00 +0000 UTC

@penoyer79 I have interesting opinions about that myself, but it's too early for me to go on about it because spoilers.

Jovet

2025-01-11 11:46:52 +0000 UTC

racial prejudice ≠ racism

Jovet

2025-01-11 11:43:51 +0000 UTC

I find it a shame that fans can't let the guys form their own opinions first. It just isn't necessary (or even fair) to say "This film is great!" or "That film is terrible" before they've ever seen it. Objective, untainted and unspoiled opinions matter! They're the most entertaining on a reaction channel.

Jovet

2025-01-11 11:40:52 +0000 UTC

I think it’s also the pacing, the Rura Penthe bit is too long and yeah definitely the last act felt very quick watching again. I still love the movie but I’m coming more from an art point of view - the acting and visuals / production in this film are absolutely amazing.

Worf and Riker Ride Again

2025-01-11 11:38:58 +0000 UTC

They're quiet when they're hanging on every word, too.

Jovet

2025-01-11 11:34:25 +0000 UTC

When I seen Alex and Josh didn't feel The Hunt For Red October I felt they wouldn't like this either. Star Trek VI intentionally had the bridge from V and the sets from the Next Gerneration modified to have that claustrophobic submarine feel. Maybe when they get to Generations they'll appreciate this movie better.

Robert Edelmann

2025-01-11 11:34:01 +0000 UTC

But does the slight changes with alternative shots and deleted scenes back in the Directors Cut help with that? I just rebought all the movies, now the Blu-ray/digital from the 4K remasters. But VI is the theatrical. 1 and 2 are the Directors' Editions but you have to buy the 4k to get that. I'm going to rewatch my dvd to see if it helps.

Robert Edelmann

2025-01-11 11:07:51 +0000 UTC

Something that I never picked up on until years later: Spock mind-melding with an unwilling Valeris would have been taboo in Vulcan society; akin to mental rape

Ee'char

2025-01-11 10:29:38 +0000 UTC

The rose colored glasses cover all mistakes.

Michael Mannisto

2025-01-11 09:56:03 +0000 UTC

Yeah I've watched this movie many, many times and enjoyed it every time, but rewatching it while watching someone else watch it made me notice a lot of weird pacing and editing choices that hadn't occurred to me before...

Brendon Waldron

2025-01-11 09:54:37 +0000 UTC

I saw this film on video a year ago for so after it came out and I didn’t know the reference either. You have to be pretty old to get it now.

Utterlee

2025-01-11 09:54:37 +0000 UTC

Ronny Cox. No further elaboration, to avoid spoilers.

Yorin

2025-01-11 09:48:00 +0000 UTC

Thanks I didn’t wanna be the one to say it

Thicketdweller

2025-01-11 09:46:22 +0000 UTC

You know, I had this rated pretty high on the list of Star Trek movies, but I also hadn't watched it in a long time. After sitting and watching through it again now, I think I'm with Alex on this one. Beyond some nice character moments, this is really not a very good movie.

Michael Mannisto

2025-01-11 09:45:32 +0000 UTC

Are you watching an old region 2 PAL DVD? They run at a different speed.

Utterlee

2025-01-11 09:37:11 +0000 UTC

I meant kids in terms of mental age, as in people who can't control their urges and act like grown ups.

Oz

2025-01-11 08:58:45 +0000 UTC

Fun fact was valeris actress posed nude on the bridge and got caught

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 08:26:45 +0000 UTC

Many hate it now because it resembles a rape

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 08:25:03 +0000 UTC

Cox?

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 08:24:34 +0000 UTC

Enough already all of you whiners! Put a sock in it! Does it really need to be said that diversity of opinion is a natural part of the human condition? You just set yourself up for disappointment with the unrealistic expectation that others should match your likes and dislikes. Is there anything more subjective in the world, on the like/dislike curve, than movies and TV programs? Revel in and enjoy your own preferences and gracefully allow others their opinions. As Paul Harvey put it so succinctly, "It's not one world".

thebeefmaster

2025-01-11 08:23:41 +0000 UTC

They also missed the sherlock holmes joke

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 08:23:04 +0000 UTC

It’s because the score is basically a rip off copy of the planets by gustof holtz

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 08:21:22 +0000 UTC

That wouldnt track with their record so far. They will go against the grain and like 9 more

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 08:18:34 +0000 UTC

Dragged? Its a short movie

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 08:16:06 +0000 UTC

How? That scene was wonderful in 5

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 08:15:35 +0000 UTC

Its not literally universal/100% but it’s pretty dam close to that.

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 08:13:37 +0000 UTC

I have never heard anyone say that before. On the contrary art that speaks to current issues is usually celebrated

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 08:10:40 +0000 UTC

Because they dont seem to like the battle type stories and they dont seem particularly into the ships or even always aware or recognize ship classes etc

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 08:08:19 +0000 UTC

Ya im kinda dreading that

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 08:07:08 +0000 UTC

More dire? This was close to war breaking out and/or kirk and mccoy dying. Enterprise almost got destroyed. And we had an assassination. Like thats pretty dam dire.

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 08:05:00 +0000 UTC

Cant wait for them to get to picard season 3

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 08:02:56 +0000 UTC

So what would you have done if that “filler” was replaced ? ..like what else would you do for a second act? I dont understand how it hurt momentum, its a short movie

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 08:01:41 +0000 UTC

One thing I think I understand, it's not that political or military thrillers inherently bore Josh and Alex, it's more about knowing the characters. If they're well-developed over a long period of time, I think you'll both be hooked. Doesn't lend itself well to a movie setting.

Paul

2025-01-11 07:59:08 +0000 UTC

Starfleet is like that in 75 years in TNG…ToS starfleet is not the same. Its cowboy diplomacy era

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:57:43 +0000 UTC

I originally saw this at the cinema. I had the same response as Alex but my buddy loved it. Over the years I grew to appreciate it more. However watching it with you guys tonight is the first time I've seen it in over 10 years and I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would. For me - It feels very subdued and quite pedestrian. While this is clearly a better made film than V ... But I have rewatched V far more times then I've rewatched this. I gave this a B+ in my Patron Take... But I'd actually drop that down to a C now I know people love this movie but it really doesn't do it for me.

Alan F

2025-01-11 07:57:03 +0000 UTC

Its a comment about dining with the enemy 🤷‍♂️

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:55:56 +0000 UTC

10 million more to do what exactly? What else would you want?

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:55:08 +0000 UTC

The budget was just as good as 2,3,4 and 5 and allegories are what trek is about🤷‍♂️

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:53:31 +0000 UTC

Its not the kids saying that

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:52:29 +0000 UTC

I'm not nervous for DS9 at all. Hyping up a single movie is dangerous, but an entire series? I guarantee there will be a lot they love about DS9, but just like TNG, plenty they won't like either.

Paul

2025-01-11 07:52:19 +0000 UTC

Red October was all the evidence we needed really.

Paul

2025-01-11 07:51:22 +0000 UTC

Agreed

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:50:29 +0000 UTC

Chang/christopher plummer was a fellow Canadian and had performed on stage with Shatner way back in the day Iman/marta was a supermodel. It was a BIG deal that she was in this movie at the time. Christian slater was amazing seeing a big star in a cameo Admiral cartwright will be in later trek as a different character. He was also the admiral in star trek 4

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:49:52 +0000 UTC

It really does seem like if one thing goes really wrong, it completely sours the entire experience for them, especially Alex.

Paul

2025-01-11 07:49:13 +0000 UTC

Yup!! Wind taken out of my sails

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:47:32 +0000 UTC

The directors cut adds like 90 seconds or something. One scene with a certain DS9 actor (playing a different character and species)

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:47:12 +0000 UTC

It's the title of a movie where a white woman brings her black fiancé to meet her family and her father stuggles with the idea despite his otherwise liberal views. So it is a VERY racially coded quote.

Nolan

2025-01-11 07:46:41 +0000 UTC

We dont need battles ..but epic is good

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:45:58 +0000 UTC

Had she been savick as originally planned it would have had much more impact

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:45:33 +0000 UTC

Well written and excellent analysis

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:44:40 +0000 UTC

its a reference to a movie

Ken R

2025-01-11 07:41:24 +0000 UTC

Well we did not see any ships in the one quick shot of the planet. But also it would make sense to NOT have a big fleet and big deal made publicly of the conference for security and PR reasons. In real life for example the Obama administration negotiated a peace settlement of a type with Cuba, the meetings where held here in Canada in small meeting rooms outside ottawa like a super low key and secret thing. Or like when Regan met Gorbachev for what many consider the beginning of the end of the cold war that this movie is about. It was held in Iceland in a small venue, no navy battleships in the harbour or air force planes overhead etc etc

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:39:41 +0000 UTC

I'm guessing that a lot of the issues Alex had came down to this being the last TOS movie. I can see how this might feel underwhelming as a finale. As much as I like the movie in and of itself, it does sort of feel like "Well that mission is over. OK, goodbye forever". If there had been a more fun/epic finale after this, I wonder if that would have made the difference. At the very least, I think we needed a longer third act, and we needed more time for the characters to actually say goodbye.

Paul Noad

2025-01-11 07:36:41 +0000 UTC

True but these guys seem to actively dislike some of the things that get exaggerated and explored a lot more in the coming star trek shows and movies…the things that many love about DS9 and the rest of tng. And I agree alex doesn’t seem to always get the plots in many ways

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:32:41 +0000 UTC

I doubt they noticed the tng sets

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:31:01 +0000 UTC

It most certainly is not

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:30:24 +0000 UTC

I agree

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:29:24 +0000 UTC

Welp. At least there's proof positive for what the boys being disinterested in something looks like, and it is NOT chatting and riffing. It's dead fucking silence.

Nolan

2025-01-11 07:28:09 +0000 UTC

They come across as humans who have battled with Klingons off and on their whole careers and seen them murder and destroy etc 🤷‍♂️….like if you talked to soviets or Americans in 1992 this was extremely accurate

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:27:56 +0000 UTC

how is that racist? its a comment about dining with the enemy

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:25:28 +0000 UTC

yup....slow early seasons and then politics etc

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:22:16 +0000 UTC

I dont think its the kids who say that

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:21:53 +0000 UTC

Let's hope you have some other cash-cow by the time you finish Enterprise.

Tim b

2025-01-11 07:21:18 +0000 UTC

and Valeris was supposed to be savick

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 07:21:01 +0000 UTC

Increasingly I find I have trouble predicting or understanding what they like. It seems more and more these days they get in a habit of letting pet peeves get in their head and take centre stage and push everything else aside. In Kirk's own words, I don't know. I just don't know.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2025-01-11 07:18:49 +0000 UTC

I never interpreted that as racist; it was just a reference to the fantastic film of the same name. But they did try hard to make the Enterprise crew sound like bigoted, judgmental jerks. I'm surprised none of them said they wanted a shower after dinner. TNG did the awkward Klingon dinner better in Sins of the Father.

Justin B

2025-01-11 07:16:17 +0000 UTC

This used to be mine, but since the director's edition 1 went up to be in third place.

Tim b

2025-01-11 07:12:16 +0000 UTC

Well, you gave it a fair shot. I guess I figured it wouldn't pique your interest after the Red October incident but I'm sad that prediction came true. Still, I could tell you enjoyed a lot of it, there weren't many iconic moments that simply fell flat for you guys, so I'm glad it wasn't a slog like Red October was. I'll admit the writing has its weak points, but the rest of the movie really makes up for it. In their final mission, the crew explored a strange new world, almost too strange for them to accept, and I think it's an excellent send-off.

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-11 06:37:12 +0000 UTC

They may have opposite tastes to most Trek fans but I highly doubt they will like Discovery.

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-11 06:35:15 +0000 UTC

I think they missed the Sherlock Holmes reference:)

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 06:23:16 +0000 UTC

Those would probably be mine and well, with the top 2 in tight contention

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-11 06:21:42 +0000 UTC

I think that reaction, Chris, though is based more on their comments of, "I'd like to see more of..." than just fans' projections.

Jeffrey P

2025-01-11 06:16:12 +0000 UTC

Now I watched the full movie with you guys. First, it seemed for the first hour you both liked it. The second hour Alex was hell bent on not liking it. That has to impact anyone sitting a foot away. I'm honestly not sure what you found lacking in this story, and I don't get the critique of you needed bigger considering you watch TNG, where except for YE and BoBW, stakes do not exist. This movie seemed like a perfect send off to TOS, you got Kirk and McCoy, just as it began, you got Kirk kissing the girl and two fistfights, you got to say hi one last time to Sarek and Janice, Scotty got to carry on a little, You also love Klingons and here they are in all their glory, and not written cartoonishly too going on about honor every 12 seconds. I just will never understand how this story is lacking, but if the story had been people going into a holodeck to live out this exact story but fake, it somehow becomes great. I would suggest Josh watch this again alone, and Alex revisit this in a year.

Ken R

2025-01-11 05:54:45 +0000 UTC

Problems pop up when art digs too deeply into current events. They're "current" for a reason. They change. The best art is timeless, or at least comments on broad human-focused topics in a way that isn't too in your face. "Only Nixon could go to China" is a step too far and seems out of place 35 years later. It's only meaningful to those who lived through the time. However, the overall themes still translate, even though the direct references won't mean the same (Praxis = Chornobyl, for example). We can all imagine two groups who villainize the other and are in constant conflict and what it does to people who are taught, either by experience or upbringing, to hate the other side.

Justin B

2025-01-11 05:51:22 +0000 UTC

I think that was my problem upon my initial viewing in the theater. I was so wrapped up in TNG that I really didn't care that much about the TOS cast any more. I like this film better in retrospect, though it still isn't a favorite. Also, I do remember that reference in Unification Part 2 where Spock talks about what happened to Kirk being his fault, and I went into this movie thinking something much more dire... or at least more epic.. was going to happen. I remember a feeling of being let down after all the buildup.

David Wayne Fox

2025-01-11 05:49:04 +0000 UTC

I see this movie as it could be, and I remember it as it should be. Which is why it's great and I love it.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-01-11 05:39:19 +0000 UTC

Spock: Logic? Logic...logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end. This will be my final voyage on board this vessel as a member of her crew. Nature abhors a vacuum; I intend you to replace me. Valeris: I could only succeed you, sir. Context is what drives this film, a 110 minute appeal to plenism; the idea that nature abhors a vacuum. Twenty five years earlier a disillusioned military vet, Roddenberry, pitched a script or three at a certain set of studios about a version of humanity which strives for a better tomorrow and a better version of itself; something different from the all-consuming reality of the cold war. The work of the allies in WWII and every conflict since had essentially been for naught -- children running nuclear drills under their desks, young adults being flung into Korea and Vietnam, and the ever present threat of the commies. And then it just...ended with the collapse of the Soviet bloc, forty five years of butting heads with them. Not with a bang but a whimper. That whole thing. But then there's also the context of the aforementioned history entangled with the passing of the torch to the next generation. TOS was cancelled, no amount of letter writing or advert campaigns or loud voices on talk shows would change that. Years after cancellation a token gesture was given to the fans after the studio saw the initial impact of Star Trek focused panels at conventions in the form of the animated series. That in turn fuels fan response at cons, and more fans are found in syndication, and so on and so forth until it comes to a head in the form of The Motion Picture/Next Phase/whatever you'd like to call it. Roddenberry had failed pilot after failed pilot in the 70s as well, and the cast had largely been suffering from typecasting and the unwillingness of anyone to touch such well known actors who would only invite more "where's Trek" questions. They paid their dues for over a decade and TMP was meant to be a love letter to them and the fans and usher in the new era. It failed at the box office and even some fans didn't care for the effects-centric nature of the film. Syndication numbers, conventions, and the fan movement was certainly there as a financial force but at a lesser budget level if they want to see returns. And so 2-6 were all, relative to TMP and even later TNG, more conservatively funded. They paid their dues and were rewarded by being second fiddle to other properties and, again, TNG just a few years later -- JV being called up so you can ride the pine after you put in the legwork. Now it's '91, TNG is the new hotness that has filled the vacuum on television and this is the end for the original cast. They walked so we could run, etc, and VI was like reading I, Jedi just before The Phantom Menace hits theaters. You have to understand that the way things were passed on from person to person, generation to generation back then was purely through direct interaction and word of mouth or through chance encounters in syndication and MAYBE through home video/rentals if you could find it at your local shop. Not even webrings or proper newsgroups existed yet, it was either someone yelled at you about it or someone told you about a number to dial into for a BBS. People may even prefer TNG at this point, but they understand the context, the lineage of the original series, and the finality of this. A send off, the payoff to 25 years of the progenitors being the backbone of something you truly love -- and the grace of the cast to step aside for their shoes to be filled fully. They play and you absorb their performance. Something, something the omega to TMP's alpha or whatever. The two of you, and others like you, are watching from a culturally sterile space. You may revere the characters and the franchise like those who lived the context, and you may feel a certain imperative or tone being thrust upon you by those who are watching this through you vicariously like we were originally or blah, blah, blah. You had to be there, as it were, to experience that cultural momentum and you weren't...and that's just fine and completely understandable that this didn't hold up on its own two feet for two people who weren't steeped in the history or classics that they incessantly quoted. There's no such thing as a true fan, a trekkie or trekker or whatever the fuck else. You, me, anyone else -- we watch Star Trek and even enjoy it once in awhile. Simple as. Sorry for the shitpost that ran a little long.

tkitez (take it easy)

2025-01-11 05:34:57 +0000 UTC

While I do understand the whole, only other named character is obviously the bad guy. I feel like if it wasn't a named character you would have equally argued that the betrayal was not meaningful enough as the character is a nobody. That being said, its one of the few I've owned since VHS, and I just realized Lt. Valeris reaction when the shoe does not fit and the fact the 2 dead assassinators where the 2 guys in the transporter room.

Colby Scovil-Turton

2025-01-11 05:24:00 +0000 UTC

Their reactions are nothing if not interesting. So far, they have hated everything that I think is brilliant, and they have loved everything I think is tripe. So, at least I know what to expect.

wildhunt1973

2025-01-11 05:18:12 +0000 UTC

Makes me nervous for DS9.

Chris Nunnally

2025-01-11 05:15:23 +0000 UTC

Well…it’s DEFINITELY far superior to current Trek. That’s hardly a stretch.

Raphael Gaytan

2025-01-11 05:15:08 +0000 UTC

🤯

Entropic

2025-01-11 05:07:43 +0000 UTC

The simple truth is the movies try to make it star trek epic . when in fact the stories and the characters we love , we don't need epic battles between good and evil

DataL0re

2025-01-11 05:01:00 +0000 UTC

I agree that Uhura would know Kingon. However, it's also just a stupid scene put in for a cheap laugh. It's evident that they don't understand Klingon, so the listening post should've immediately seen through the ruse. And the whole "They'll detect a universal translator" seems ridiculous and is something that no Star Trek brings up ever again.

Justin B

2025-01-11 04:54:55 +0000 UTC

There were a lot of story bits that were left on the cutting room floor (such as the aforementioned one about Valeris not being full Vulcan). The Federation President is blind which is why Kirk has to identify himself when he knocks him down and the Klingon assassin at the end has red blood. I've not seen it so I have no idea how much the Director's cut adds to the film.

Jeffrey P

2025-01-11 04:46:44 +0000 UTC

You know that feeling when you're a kid, and you show a new friend something you like a lot, and they don't like that thing? That's sort of how I feel right now. This was one I was looking forward to you two reacting to back when I was watching your TOS content. I enjoy your stance on being honest in your reactions, but I'm still really bummed out that you guys didn't like this one.

Ca$hWednesday

2025-01-11 04:42:33 +0000 UTC

We have very different opinions on these movies, and that’s ok. My rankings are 2, 6, 4, 3, 1, 5.

Bantha Fodder

2025-01-11 04:40:22 +0000 UTC

Christopher Plummer was Chang. Gorkin was played by David Warner who played the human ambassador in the previous film.

Jeffrey P

2025-01-11 04:39:35 +0000 UTC

I'm about to sit down and watch this before I go to bed and reading the comments I was not looking forward to it, so thank you for giving me a glimmer of honest hope for the reaction.

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-11 04:30:14 +0000 UTC

Star Trek 2 and 3 where also shoestring budgets

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 04:21:28 +0000 UTC

It does seem to be a trend with them not liking some truly amazing episodes and movies. Battlestar, red October, st6 and even Darmok🤷‍♂️

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 04:20:37 +0000 UTC

I knew the lieutenant was a villain right away from the side burns.

Patrick Smith

2025-01-11 04:20:08 +0000 UTC

It’s funny because many of us feel it has aged VERY well and is far superior to current trek

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 04:17:33 +0000 UTC

He had a few breakout roles, usually in the crime thriller vein if I recall

Patrick Smith

2025-01-11 04:17:18 +0000 UTC

Bored of the political message? This is Star Trek

Derek Orr

2025-01-11 04:15:56 +0000 UTC

This Discovery "show" was an abomination. Whether you take the badly written characters or the stories themselves. At least that's how I see it

Gold Wing

2025-01-11 04:06:28 +0000 UTC

Yeah...and while still a known actor...at the time he seemed like he was on the verge of big time stardum (never quite reached that for him). But yeah...I remember being surprised to see him in a bit spot. Also if you can do a Kirl impression....you just need to tone it down a bit and you have a Christian Slater impression.

Greg Quinn

2025-01-11 04:02:16 +0000 UTC

Did you have the directors cut?

Greg Quinn

2025-01-11 03:59:39 +0000 UTC

All those kids who keep posting stuff like "can't wait for you to watch ST6" and "the next episode will blow your mind!" - This one is on you.

Oz

2025-01-11 03:43:14 +0000 UTC

The movie never was one of my favorites either. I have liked it better upon repeated viewings, but I think upon seeing it in the theater for the first time I was very underwhelmed, and even slightly bored by the political aspect of it. I definitely understand this reaction.

David Wayne Fox

2025-01-11 03:12:30 +0000 UTC

They had a string of failures in 1990

tyranusfan

2025-01-11 03:11:54 +0000 UTC

You are both great reactors. I could see the instant Alex disengaged- the whole feeling of the reaction changed. It’s like the atmosphere in the room was different. Then I could tell by Josh’s ‘pleasant smile’ face that he wasn’t thrilled. Not a criticism of y’all, it’s actually what makes you both entertaining to watch. I’ve seen other comments that echo my sentiment that this film changes depending on how old you are when you watch it. Definitely not perfect but prescient, as Trek always is. One generation has to make the choice to stop the hate., to break the cycle of bigotry. This is why Kirk and crew are our heroes. There are a lot of ways I wish the film were different but I’m thankful we got to say goodbye to them, one final time. Star Trek has been my therapy since I was a child. It’s important for kids (and adults) to see embracing differences and service to others demonstrated, now more than ever. It’s a future worth making for ourselves. 🖖

Jg

2025-01-11 03:06:58 +0000 UTC

Are you not entertained?

JP RFL

2025-01-11 02:47:50 +0000 UTC

The second act was mostly filler that bogged down what could have been a one hour episode. As others have said, there is too much direct political allegory of the time. Kronos being Chernobyl, quotes form Desert Storm (extended cut). Tackling the fall of the Soviet Union, and bridging TOS with TNG made a lot of the plot forced. The budget was low and the TNG sets were noticeable. Still, the third act definitely raises this above 5. The first 4 movies did set a high bar.

Stephen Wright

2025-01-11 02:47:01 +0000 UTC

Very interesting reaction video, guys. It basically sums up what I’ve been saying about Star Trek VI for years. I love this movie. Absolutely love it! But it hasn’t aged well. It’s far too militaristic and is centered around a premise that was meant to mirror what was happening at the time. The Soviet Union, which Reagan used to call “the evil empire”, was on the verge of collapse. For us Gen X’ers, we lived in fear throughout the ‘80’s that we could be nuked at any time…would this be the last Christmas we would ever see, etc.…and now we were watching the Cold War coming to an end. This movie couldn’t have chosen a more perfect allegory to reflect the end of the Cold War in space between the Federation and Klingons. But now, those events are thirty-five years behind us, and the film itself feels dated. I’m not saying that younger generations won’t get the importance of the story…but it was quite something to watch it on the big screen in 1991 and then go home and turn on the news to watch it happening in reality. Really appreciate your honest reactions, guys. You’ve helped to keep TOS on the radar and have added to the fandom! 🖖

Raphael Gaytan

2025-01-11 02:40:21 +0000 UTC

oh my Red October is so good

Scarpad’s Domain

2025-01-11 02:27:01 +0000 UTC

It's not universally beloved, but if you Google up a few lists of the best episodes of tng, you'll find it most of the time. I think it's regarded a bit better than your estimation.

Aaron Wells

2025-01-11 02:24:56 +0000 UTC

Absolutely Agree everyone got their moment

Scarpad’s Domain

2025-01-11 02:17:42 +0000 UTC

Bingo

Scarpad’s Domain

2025-01-11 02:16:35 +0000 UTC

Not only likable but slavish in their devotion the the main cast, especially data. I shudder at the Cox hate yet to come

Scarpad’s Domain

2025-01-11 02:16:14 +0000 UTC

Well i doubt it STarfleet is mean again

Scarpad’s Domain

2025-01-11 02:14:40 +0000 UTC

That Alex's MO if a character rubs him the wrong way he hate watches the rest of the episode

Scarpad’s Domain

2025-01-11 02:14:00 +0000 UTC

It's difficult to describe the suspected DS9 issues without saying things about the show. But it would track.

Aaron Wells

2025-01-11 02:12:34 +0000 UTC

Or 10

Scarpad’s Domain

2025-01-11 02:11:43 +0000 UTC

to be fair they did that more in Star Trek V

Scarpad’s Domain

2025-01-11 02:10:52 +0000 UTC

“Guess who’s coming to dinner”. Nah nothing racist there. 🤣

Column Meanie

2025-01-11 02:05:08 +0000 UTC

I don't get why so many people are convinced they are going to hate DS9. Can we at least let them actually watch the show first? At the very least let's see how they react to Chain of Command. That and The Wounded are the most similar to DS9 IMO.

Spencer Loften

2025-01-11 01:39:18 +0000 UTC

DS9 is far superior to The Undiscovered Country. I wouldn't worry about it too much. I still think DS9 is right up their alley.

Justin B

2025-01-11 01:27:11 +0000 UTC

Alex seems to adhere to Roddenberry's vision of what Star Trek is and what Starfleet should be and he doesn't have much tolerance when they go off book. I respect that.

penoyer79

2025-01-11 01:25:22 +0000 UTC

From what I read it was more about Paramount's dire financial situation at the time than the performance of Star Trek V at the box office.

Rich Loga

2025-01-11 01:23:56 +0000 UTC

I will say because Star Trek V failed, they wouldn’t give this film a penny more than that budget. If they gave it just $10 million more, they could have increased the scope I think. And I always wondered why Nick Meyer didn’t bring back Gayne Rescher from Star Trek II as DOP. That film was the most cinematic of all of them. They did the best with what they had. This is a great film. Alex, always defended your guys right to have your opinions, even if you disagree with us. But from a comment you made about halfway through, it seems you DECIDED not to like it. You looked like you were tired. Hey, its got its flaws. I know. But as a sendoff? It was great.

Chris S.

2025-01-11 01:10:32 +0000 UTC

This movie almost didn't happen. Paramount was in a bad financial situation due to a string of very expensive films flopping at the box office. The next Star Trek movie at this point was going to be about a young Kirk & Spock at Starfleet Academy very similar to the 2009 reboot film. Without having to pay Shatner and Nimoy and cast some young unknowns they figured they could make a movie for a much lower budget and then set themselves with a whole new franchise. This Starfleet Academy film was actually greenlit and in preproduction but when the owner of Paramount found out about this reboot movie, he was furious and cancelled it and demanded one more movie with the TOS crew in honor of the 25th anniversary of Star Trek. Harve Bennet who had produced II, III, IV, and V was going to produce and had written the script for the Starfleet Academy film left Paramount not wanting to do another TOS film. Paramount turned to Nimoy to take over, he brought Nicholas Meyer into write and direct. Nimoy, Meyer and Denny Martin Flinn wrote this movie, the two other people credited contributed nothing to the final story but were under contact and still received credit. This film was rushed to get it into theaters by the end of 1991 and Paramount was very very tight with the budget. Most of the sets are TNG sets, the room they had the dinner in is the room where Picard has staff meetings, the movie really blew it up and a new set for TNG was constructed. 10 forward was the Federation president's office. Sickbay, engineering and the transporter room are TNG sets with minimal redressing. So yeah, this definitely was not the epic goodbye these entertainment legends deserved and feels cheap at times. Still in 1991 I drove my beater of a car 45 miles in a snowstorm to see this movie on opening night and I was soo damn happy seeing my old friends together one last time and I do have a special place in my heart for this film. BTW the Klingons quoting Shakespeare and acting like Shakespeare was Klingon is a reference to Nazi Germany claiming Shakespeare was German and using Shakespeare for Nazi propaganda and I agree they over did the Shakespeare quotes.

Rich Loga

2025-01-11 01:07:03 +0000 UTC

bISaHbe', 'e' yIHarQo'.

Avaria

2025-01-11 01:06:06 +0000 UTC

I’m now getting a crash course in which episodes and movies are hated. And, conversely, which things are loved that I think are only meh. But alas! There’s enough Trek to go around. Something for everybody.

Shanelle

2025-01-11 00:49:41 +0000 UTC

Is it a Star Trek channel or a reaction channel?

AzoriusMage

2025-01-11 00:48:01 +0000 UTC

@Target Audience It's going to take a lot of will power for you to slog through Voyager. Luckily, you will have DS9 for most of that time as well.

StealthMomo

2025-01-11 00:46:25 +0000 UTC

Let them form their own opinions. I’m glad I did my first watch through of tng and ds9 on my own. I was blissfully unaware of “bad” and “good” seasons. I just thought they were good shows with great characters. There are joys, to be sure, in having an online space to chat but sometimes “consensus” is a downer.

Shanelle

2025-01-11 00:42:54 +0000 UTC

I honestly don't see any racism in this. Considering up to this point the Klingons they've met have been 100% nogoodniks, why would they think anything other than Klingons are all up to no good?

Ken R

2025-01-11 00:40:26 +0000 UTC

Man, from these comments you'd think they both declared this the worst piece of media ever produced.

Steven Linden

2025-01-11 00:38:23 +0000 UTC

The klingons wanting peace is almost exactly what happened with the Soviet Union under Gorby. When he realized they were gong broke he first went to Reagan and suggested they both dismantle their nuke program 100% to zero. Reagan liked the idea but his advisors stopped that before it started. By 1989 he was ready to give up the entire Warsaw Pact, something Putin has been pissed about ever since.

Ken R

2025-01-11 00:25:13 +0000 UTC

@Sherpa Jones bingo. It's a throttle, not a speed. Also, Kirk said "one-quarter" impulse. not one half. 1/4 is his preferred velocity for leaving the dock. As he does in Star Trek 3, as well.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-11 00:21:23 +0000 UTC

You can definitely say, no matter what, Alex and Josh are genuine. and I agree with you, Tim. I can't watch reactors who enjoy literally every film and episode of a show they watch. That's just clearly them mugging for money. Which is something Alex and Josh don't do. No matter what.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-11 00:20:10 +0000 UTC

with them who knows but I'll be watching... :)

Josef Nitervol

2025-01-11 00:20:07 +0000 UTC

I didn’t notice any of that, nor do I care about reusing sets. Thought the movie looked great.

Josh (Target Audience)

2025-01-11 00:19:17 +0000 UTC

I'm not sure what that has to do with it, Jovet. This is a political thriller and murder mystery first and foremost.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-11 00:19:05 +0000 UTC

Given the limited time in pre-production and production, and the limited budget, they were strapped to come up with anything better. They needed some kind of a roadblock for the ship crossing into Klingon space. A space battle would have been too costly, and open up other issues. Most other solutions would be too easy. It was a writing cul de sac too difficult to get out of, I wager. I'm sure we could come up with something better now, of course. I just mean at the time with the pressures to get a script done and a film produced.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-11 00:17:44 +0000 UTC

Agree that was the worst part of it and I felt that watching it in the theater when it came out.

Josef Nitervol

2025-01-11 00:16:45 +0000 UTC

As much as I don't take it to be my personal favorite (That would be 3), I have to agree with penoyer on this. It is, by the objective metrics, the best of Star Trek's film run. All of them, with Star Trek IV being the most successful.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-11 00:14:37 +0000 UTC

This is my favorite of the movies I saw 2-6 in the theater and people clapped at the end for a time. It's a great star trek movie and brings back memories from this time. I completely understand your disappointment. But I think people hype stuff up too much.

Josef Nitervol

2025-01-11 00:12:32 +0000 UTC

I have peaked and troughed on this movie over the years. Loved it as a kid, don’t think it aged very well. I still think it’s a solid 7 but I don’t like the way the crew comes across as racist bigoted arseholes. Gene Roddenberry didnt like it and neither do I. I know it’s there to give Kirk the turn at the end but it is played far too strong.

Jon1701

2025-01-11 00:08:51 +0000 UTC

Now I have that damn song stuck in my head.

THE LORE!!!

2025-01-11 00:08:40 +0000 UTC

The key reason Undiscovered Country feels small to you is that it is shot on a shoestring budget. Aside from some gorgeous VFX shots of Enterprise and Excelsior almost all the ship sets and some of the Earth sets are redresses of Next Generstion assets. Enterprise’s officers mess is the next generation conference room and hilariously, the President’s office is 10-Forward. Upon rewatches it’s glaringly obvious! They made great use of the money they had, but such frugality didn’t lend itself to epic storytelling.

Chris Christison

2025-01-11 00:04:10 +0000 UTC

Was perfect for me

Shanelle

2025-01-11 00:00:02 +0000 UTC

I'm not sure what the deal is but what you guys are watching is totally out of synch with my DVD copy

Monty Crawford

2025-01-10 23:59:25 +0000 UTC

Honestly, I’m right with you guys on this film except I’m positive I like it better than Star Trek V. Second from the bottom for me.

James H

2025-01-10 23:54:41 +0000 UTC

Fun fact: They used Worf action figures in the top row of the courtroom to force perspective. Also: Christian Slater's (the guy who wakes up Sulu) mother was the casting director. He asked her for a small part.

T’Pynyn of Vulcan

2025-01-10 23:38:26 +0000 UTC

Yeah I figured they might not like it. My personal ranking would be 2,1,3,4,6,5. I really like them all, and this is better than 5 with a great performance by chang. But I did feel, and I guess Roddenberry did too that it was a bit too militaristic for Trek. Plus since there are starfleet baddies that instantly means Alex will hate it

Scarpad’s Domain

2025-01-10 23:23:21 +0000 UTC

YOU shouldn't, but it's the people that expect Alex & Josh to react the same way without having those same years of feelings that need to when having expectations for other people...

Brendon Waldron

2025-01-10 22:57:36 +0000 UTC

While a lot of people like Darmok, it's not universally beloved. It's seen as a very polarizing episode, with a lot of lovers, but also a lot of detractors. Many of the TNG episodes that most fans DO really like are also ones that Josh and Alex liked, like The Emissary, Q Who, Unification, Redemption, Sins of the Father, Best of Both Worlds (to an extent), etc. And going through and rewatching, a number of "more obscure" episodes really ARE much better written than a number of showcase episodes. Certainly my tastes changed between childhood, when I first watched TNG, and adulthood. I'll take The Bonding and Half a Life over a ton of more well-known episodes, certainly.

Ian Westcott

2025-01-10 22:45:21 +0000 UTC

i'm not overstating at all. it's literally the highest rated TOS movie everywhere you look. you and your friends may like something else but you are the exception, not the rule.

penoyer79

2025-01-10 22:36:35 +0000 UTC

Wow. Big commitment.

Shanelle

2025-01-10 22:28:51 +0000 UTC

Beautiful!

rear adm. crackbiscuit

2025-01-10 22:20:26 +0000 UTC

That's because TAS had always been considered fringe canon up to that point. It's become more embraced in the last 30 years as more official ST content has referenced it.

captveg

2025-01-10 22:13:59 +0000 UTC

Shakespeare and Doyle's central Holmes adage are about as culturally universal as writing can get, though.

captveg

2025-01-10 22:08:35 +0000 UTC

I would disagree, but we go into much more detail in the discussion which is coming soon so hopefully we explain well enough in that

Josh (Target Audience)

2025-01-10 22:02:16 +0000 UTC

They'll love season 1, but then hate everything after, lol. I already know their favorite episode will be that one from S1 that everyone hates.

Tim b

2025-01-10 22:02:08 +0000 UTC

The music score especially is super underrated in general IMO. Eidelman has had a rather ho hum career for the most part, but his work here is a tremendously good outlier and is right there with Horner's Wrath of Khan work for me.

captveg

2025-01-10 21:57:48 +0000 UTC

On paper the stories are just as expansive I think. You must be feeling the mis en scene. The recycling of the Next Gen sets and other elusive aspects.

Michael Nemo

2025-01-10 21:57:31 +0000 UTC

It's also a bummer if reactors first love something that's actually great, and then love something "meh" just as much. I can't respect someone who thinks Nu-Trek is just as good as anything before it.

Tim b

2025-01-10 21:53:56 +0000 UTC

Yeah, if one thing is even more universally accepted than 2 being the best TOS movie, it's 8 being the best TNG movie. Thus, they'll think it's "meh".

Tim b

2025-01-10 21:50:51 +0000 UTC

Between this, BSG reboot and The Hunt for Red October it seems (but may be inaccurate to say) that you guys are less inclined to like political thrillers, which happen to be something I enjoy a ton. ST6 specifically is very rooted to its day as a Soviet collapse allegory, but despite that I feel it holds up rather well. I do think some of the things you pointed out about the conspiracy members being obvious and the penal colony prison scenes zapping some energy from the film are absolutely valid. Love how honest your reactions always are, so keep up the great work.

captveg

2025-01-10 21:50:14 +0000 UTC

Why should we "look past out love of Star Trek" on a Star Trek channel?

Tim b

2025-01-10 21:47:48 +0000 UTC

"Only Nixon could go to China" was one of the most iconic, so often quoted lines of this movie. It went right over their heads. Not their fault, culture references do change.

Michael Metrick

2025-01-10 21:46:42 +0000 UTC

Commenting on current events is actually a pretty bad idea for art in general I think. But this movie at best takes some inspiration from the fall of the soviet union. it works perfectly without that background.

Tim b

2025-01-10 21:45:58 +0000 UTC

Epic, like Star Trek 1, 2, & 3. Something that feels bigger than an episode of TOS

Josh (Target Audience)

2025-01-10 21:44:07 +0000 UTC

Same. While I wasn’t certain they wouldn’t like it, I had a feeling!

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 21:42:51 +0000 UTC

Discovery was made more for their generation. Serialized, soap operish, inconsistent characters, big budget sfx... I could go on.

Michael Metrick

2025-01-10 21:42:36 +0000 UTC

I can never predict what they like or not like, lol. Bit disappointing to be honest, but I'd rather not have them fake enthusiasm like some (probably) do.

Tim b

2025-01-10 21:39:05 +0000 UTC

STD is best Trek. There, I said it.

Terminaldogma01

2025-01-10 21:38:11 +0000 UTC

Now I'm not so sure how much I'm looking forward to the DS9 reactions. 😔

Michael Metrick

2025-01-10 21:36:18 +0000 UTC

She was right. I love this movie but I hate this scene.

Kirkinson

2025-01-10 21:36:07 +0000 UTC

Yeah, it makes no sense that Uhura wouldn't at least be mostly fluent in Klingon by that point. Honestly, I'd say at least a few of the officers should be, considering the 70 years of warfare between the two. It seems like Starfleet would have learning Klingon as part of the curriculum for anyone gunning for officer.

Boggle

2025-01-10 21:34:45 +0000 UTC

Josh, what do you mean by "big"? Like Dune big or ....?

Michael Nemo

2025-01-10 21:34:32 +0000 UTC

There are dissenting opinions and then there are factors that can mar an enjoyable experence for someone that watches something 35 years after it's fresh. Alex does have a penchant for not being fully present in narratives and does seem to be a external processor and slave to expectations; so it can't be surprising that this old film wouldn't hold his interest. I do worry that this will get worse as the Trek journey continues. I mean a lot of us Trek fans have kind of the same experience with Nu Trek after 2016 and don't instantly LOVE what's produced. We end up being called "toxic" fans. I personally dont think there are a lot of toxic Trek fans. Just passionate fans. And Alex is one. Those expectations can be killer though and can ruin an experience. Hard to go in neutral. My experience with VI was when I was 22 and saw it in DC with my then gf and it was fucking amazing. Nothing can change that for me. ;)

Michael Nemo

2025-01-10 21:31:47 +0000 UTC

I'm one of the weird ones then, because I think 3&4 are better. And while nobody asked, I'd rate the TOS Trek movies, from best to worst: 4, 3, 2, 6, 1, 5. ETA: If not for the nebula fight scene, I might even rate Wrath of Khan lower than 6, tbh.

Boggle

2025-01-10 21:29:22 +0000 UTC

This has never been my favorite, but I knew they wouldn't like it lol.

Christopher Hayes

2025-01-10 21:29:13 +0000 UTC

Speaking of expectations, I was more excited for this reaction than possibly anything else you're going to watch in the entire franchise. So in a way, I feel your pain! (And to be fair, unlike you guys I have no one to blame but myself for getting hyped up about this.)

Kirkinson

2025-01-10 21:28:46 +0000 UTC

Everything about the prison was filler. It really hurts the movie by killing momentum for a couple hit or miss jokes about Kirk hooking up with alien babes. I also find it hilarious that in such a meeting of the most powerful elements of two star empires, there's absolutely zero ships in orbit of any kind. That said, I do like the third act for the most part, and overall it was better imo than part 5.

Boggle

2025-01-10 21:25:25 +0000 UTC

Deep Space Nine doesn't just suck. it's the worst show in the whole of Star Trek. Discovery is way better.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-10 21:21:05 +0000 UTC

Yes, all of it

Josh (Target Audience)

2025-01-10 21:20:34 +0000 UTC

The DC is just slower. Just like with Khan. Very little worthwhile is actually added.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-10 21:19:54 +0000 UTC

I think Season 4 TNG spoiled you guys. So far in Season 5 and this you are both like Meh or hate. I get it hard to love this when you have seen the best. I also understand the wanting more with your characters. Cant wait to see you guys react to the rest of Trek. Are you planning on going all the way through the new stuff like Strange new Worlds and Lower decks ?

Lt Dan I scream

2025-01-10 21:19:07 +0000 UTC

Gene didn't like Saavik, primarily because he didn't create her. Nick Meyer and Gene had a HUGE fight where Nick actually stormed out of the meeting (and later lamented.) Gene DID like the movie when he saw it in a screening before his death. I saw someone else on here using Gene's hatred of the ideas as a slam against the movie itself, but in reality Gene did give the film high marks after having seen it. Hence why Nick put the tribute to him at the start.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-10 21:18:06 +0000 UTC

shatner was 34-35 when he first got Star Trek. Nearly that same amount of time has past since this last TOS movie was made. crazy

penoyer79

2025-01-10 21:12:28 +0000 UTC

I confess, I gave up after the first two seasons. I'm ignorant about the rest of STD.

Aaron Wells

2025-01-10 21:10:05 +0000 UTC

Then they'll adore Discovery I guess.

Michael Nemo

2025-01-10 21:07:57 +0000 UTC

Watching you fall in love with my show, the respect that you have for it, the observations and commentary. This is why you guys are the best. Thank you for keeping it real! Trek is different at different times in your life. Some episodes and movies I didn't like as a kid I like now, and the opposite.. By the time you get to the end of your Trek run, it will be time to start it all over again. You will have grown older and wiser and will look at a lot of episodes differently than the first run through.. Target Audience II - The Wrath of Alex Alex-yes-I did send you a poem written by DeForest Kelley with his signature in the back of it..pretty rare, very cool..(c:

Badger

2025-01-10 21:03:29 +0000 UTC

I couldn’t agree more.

Raphael Gaytan

2025-01-10 20:55:18 +0000 UTC

😀

Terminaldogma01

2025-01-10 20:49:35 +0000 UTC

Niiiice!

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 20:47:33 +0000 UTC

i'll bet they like 9 more than 8

penoyer79

2025-01-10 20:47:22 +0000 UTC

I wouldn't call it the best, that's for sure, but I don't think "made on the cheap" is a particularly fair assessment. Those that making it did everything they could to get the most out of the budget.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-10 20:46:29 +0000 UTC

They definitely have a preference for TOS. Alex used Kirk as his gimmick in wrestling.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-10 20:45:35 +0000 UTC

I started with TMP and TOS. I like 6. I rank TNG second fiddle. Always have. TOS, the movies, and DS9 are my personal favorites of Star Trek. TNG is good, but if you offer me the choice of TOS or TNG, it'll be TOS.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-10 20:44:36 +0000 UTC

I would not be surprised if they loved Insurrection.

Julie Carter

2025-01-10 20:44:22 +0000 UTC

People call that a failing of the script, but nobody can ever explain to my wife ONLY the Excelsior would have that equipment? Enterprise could just as easily been part of that assignment in the months prior to the movies' events. Also, it wasn't the fault of the script. Shatner told Nimoy and Meyer that Kirk didn't need to be saved in the final act of the movie, and you know, Shatner had a point. This is the final curtain for the original crew. I think it's important that they save the day here.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-10 20:41:50 +0000 UTC

Shatner was also a pain when they filmed the “you’ve restored my father’s faith” scene, fighting for closeups (which explains the odd closeup of Valeris in between Azetbur and Kirk)

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 20:41:02 +0000 UTC

Makes plenty of sense to me that Mogh might name his son after his father.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-10 20:39:41 +0000 UTC

Shatner got more money than anyone else since TMP. It's not a valid excuse. He went over budget, and over time. He nearly killed the movie franchise. Nimoy worked with less, twice. Meyer worked with less. Shatner was the issue. He wanted to do a serious story about searching for God - the studio wanted comedy like Star Trek IV. Those two things generally don't mix, but he tried to force it anyway. He wanted a grand scale to things, but his budget wasn't going to grant him that. He forced it anyway. He knew his effects house was not ILM. He didn't plan accordingly and rework the story to focus less on effects and more on the characters. The problem with Star Trek V was that Shatner would not take no for an answer and would not adjust accordingly.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-10 20:39:04 +0000 UTC

Alex "There's no room for bigotry on the bridge, keep it to your quarters" They're in the transporter room. Bigotry is allowed there. Just ask O'Brien

Timothy Nikiforovs

2025-01-10 20:36:17 +0000 UTC

“An incident”

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 20:32:27 +0000 UTC

As someone who saw this in theatres on initial release at age 11, this will still be my favorite with TWOK being a close second. The biggest reason is that aside from TMP, this is the only movie that showcases one of the Refit Enterprises with full crew compliment and fully operational. In TWOK, the Enterprise is full of cadets as it has been relegated to a training ship. In TSFS, she is battle damaged, bypassed like a christmas tree, and run by a small bridge crew. We get a glimpse of a fully staffed & operational A at the end of TVH, but in TFF all we get is a skeleton crew and a ship that is still in shakedown trials. In TMP, we have those gawd awful pyjama uniforms and the ship is just out of spacedock after a full refit with a crew who barely knows here. This movie here, the ship is well broken in, new bridge module, full crew, and fully lived in. The galley scenes with scuffed up walls and panels just makes it feel alive, and a galley crew preparing crew meals is business as usual. The story is just deeply immersed in the daily operations of a top of the line Starfleet Flagship.

Sherpa Jones

2025-01-10 20:30:35 +0000 UTC

As I said before, there is very consistent potential for predictions on what the guys like or don't based on the inverse what the fans like or don't. Josh and Alex will consistently like obscure filler episodes that the fans are at best ambivalent about, and they will be disappointed by the stuff the fans are passionate about. This has very much been proven out by the TOS films and continues to carry in TNG...Darmok of course being a key example. I predict they aren't going to like DS9 much at all, at least not the central arc of it. Stuff will be going down in DS9 and the fans will be all, "Yeah! This is the good stuff!" and the guys will be like, "Meh." Which is fine. Dissenting views are also interesting.

Aaron Wells

2025-01-10 20:29:10 +0000 UTC

Mind you they were all getting on a bit at this point. I reckon Kirk went the whole hog with Martia which is why Bones was so annoyed

Worf and Riker Ride Again

2025-01-10 20:27:51 +0000 UTC

I don't think they believe that every character has to be likable, case in point is Ro Laren. But there have been cases where a character or an actor has rubbed them the wrong way and they get all worked up about it, to the point where they no longer properly pay attention to what's happening.

Yorin

2025-01-10 20:25:39 +0000 UTC

Love that video.

Aaron Wells

2025-01-10 20:23:38 +0000 UTC

Half impulse isn't a speed, it is an engine output setting. Just like half throttle on a ship. The ship can get up to 1/4 light speed on half impulse, but it isn't instantaneous.

Sherpa Jones

2025-01-10 20:23:15 +0000 UTC

There's a difference between good and interesting. The one plays into the other.

Aaron Wells

2025-01-10 20:21:20 +0000 UTC

I hope you made the correct choice and decided to use your weekend for job hunting

Worf and Riker Ride Again

2025-01-10 20:11:19 +0000 UTC

I don't understand why they think every character has to be likeable

ShazD

2025-01-10 20:09:13 +0000 UTC

Wrath of Khan is not universally accepted as the best. I know many people who like 1, 4, and 6 more than TWOK. Certainly a lot of fans like it, but to say it’s universally accepted as the best is an overstatement.

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 20:08:31 +0000 UTC

That's crazy

ShazD

2025-01-10 20:08:10 +0000 UTC

I'm sure you know this by now, but Worf (in this movie) is Worf's grandfather. Mogh's father.

River Acheron

2025-01-10 20:07:50 +0000 UTC

I’m going to go out on a limb and say they won’t like the director’s cut any more than the theatrical version.

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 20:07:37 +0000 UTC

The two assassins were the same two crewmen that Valeris seemingly chastised in the transporter room. Turned out she wasn’t chastising them but rather ordering them to get to their task of assassinating Gorkon.

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 20:05:57 +0000 UTC

I was a kid still when this came out. based on the title I had built up somehow in my head that the crew were going to find some place or whole planet that had never been encountered before & it would be some huge mystery they had uncobvered. When Gorkon referred to the future as The Undiscovered Country, the whole thing just fell flat to me & I think I was like Alex, I checked out that early & it became "just another adventure" to me & I felt so disappointed watching it. years later in my 20's when I got a PS2 & started getting DVD's this movie had fairly recently been released & was among the 1st Trek Physical media I collected. This time around I saw the story for what it was, rather then what fantasy story I built up in my head & I loved it. I love the idea that some Humans, Klingongs & Romulans were so against peace, the worked together in cooperation to try to insure they never had to cooperate again. Brock Peters & Nichelle Nichols hated the idea of saying anything racist given what they experienced in their life, but I think it was great. Yes humans are no longer racist to each other, but in the end they're still human & sadly it's in our nature to distrust the unknown & different, so those attitudes may still exist in the future, they just transfer to a new target. I think it worked here especially when the end was the characters becoming self aware of their attitude & that they were wrong.

Retro Tom

2025-01-10 20:04:12 +0000 UTC

I guess in hindsight this is not surprising. It is fascinating though, as Spock would say, that two people simultaneously reach similar opinions that go against the consensus so often. I do all the time on certain boring decaf Trek shows, but that doesn't mean my friends think the same thing. My best guess is one of you is picking up the tension vibes off the other, impacting how they see the stuff.

Ken R

2025-01-10 20:00:11 +0000 UTC

What about 10? Or did you erase from canon :)

Worf and Riker Ride Again

2025-01-10 19:56:47 +0000 UTC

There is Josh and Alex stranded in the mirror universe who love the even numbered TOS movies …

Paul Hess

2025-01-10 19:55:37 +0000 UTC

In defense of Alex and Josh, I'm a baby boomer who watched TOS when it aired, understood every historical reference in the movie and also checked out early. I'm not sure it being a "commentary on current events" is enough to make this a good movie. At least it wasn't enough for me.

Dale Williams

2025-01-10 19:54:11 +0000 UTC

How do you say “Not great, Not Terrible” in Klingon?

Terminaldogma01

2025-01-10 19:43:28 +0000 UTC

abrams got that one right, at least.

penoyer79

2025-01-10 19:42:08 +0000 UTC

I still reckon Dorn sweet talked his way into the movie, then everyone cobbled together a half-arsed bit of lore as to who he is. Worf son of Mogh son of Worf

Worf and Riker Ride Again

2025-01-10 19:41:20 +0000 UTC

Certainly not my favorite film. If I ranked the films up to this point best to worst: 2=3, 4, 6=5 I just re-watched 7. I liked it more than I remember liking it. 8 and 9 weren't for me at all.

Jovet

2025-01-10 19:39:54 +0000 UTC

I think the surprise would have been intact had Saavik been in the film.

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 19:39:52 +0000 UTC

Michael Dorn was playing Worf’s grandfather.

Paul Rymer

2025-01-10 19:37:35 +0000 UTC

I think that’s pretty spot on, maybe 2 and 1 the other way around?

Worf and Riker Ride Again

2025-01-10 19:35:15 +0000 UTC

It wrapped up much quicker than I remembered, the ending was rushed - I've never noticed that before. Damn you guys, you make me re-evaluate everything. It should never have been hyped, I watched this over Christmas on TV as a kid and came to my own conclusions. Hype discolours everything, hopefully you will appreciate it more in retrospect.

Leyton Jay

2025-01-10 19:34:45 +0000 UTC

LOL that sounds like something Shatner would do.

penoyer79

2025-01-10 19:33:07 +0000 UTC

As others have commented with the cold war anology and the Nixon to China comment some things with this film won't connect with a younger audience. But that aside I still think there's much to enjoy here, particularity Christopher Plummer's acting and role. Low points for me as some of the schlockeir elements with Uhura not knowing Klingon and the general unsophisticated ways of the crew around Klingon customs and norms. Just too simplistic and childish. As a send off to the crew, it works mostly. Better than V but not the rest of the movies.

Tuomas Leone

2025-01-10 19:32:36 +0000 UTC

Fun Fact: The signatures at the end of the film inspired Marvel to do the same thing at the end of End Game.

Leyton Jay

2025-01-10 19:31:48 +0000 UTC

5 is great when the plot isnt happening.. but to be fair to 5... Shatner didn't get to make the movie he envisiond - the studios kept enforcing devastating budget cuts and reducing filming schedule. even Takei, who was in a bitter feud with Shatner at this time gave shatner props for keeping the set fun and light despite the studio destroying his movie.

penoyer79

2025-01-10 19:29:40 +0000 UTC

Sound in a vacuum still makes me cringe. Every time.

Jovet

2025-01-10 19:29:31 +0000 UTC

Gotta remember, they're not sci-fi fans. Or at least not traditional ones.

Jovet

2025-01-10 19:27:00 +0000 UTC

pretty sure their movie rankings are something like 3 4 2 1 6 5 though Alex may have 6 at the bottom.

penoyer79

2025-01-10 19:25:33 +0000 UTC

I don't remember anything about it, and if I didn't just happen to catch it on TV lately, I wouldn't have remembered anything.

Jovet

2025-01-10 19:25:12 +0000 UTC

Definitely

Jovet

2025-01-10 19:23:49 +0000 UTC

praxis explosion was the klingons chernobyl

penoyer79

2025-01-10 19:20:24 +0000 UTC

i was not surprised while watching it. if there's anything alex hates it's being ahead of the characters... and the audience is ahead of the characters most of the movie.

penoyer79

2025-01-10 19:15:55 +0000 UTC

"I've been dead before". Cold, accurate, but hopeful.

Leyton Jay

2025-01-10 19:15:45 +0000 UTC

Interesting, i am surprised you didn't both love it more. I did notice about midway through Alex didn't seem to be loving it.

jon bolton

2025-01-10 19:15:20 +0000 UTC

This movie was definitely written for the long-time Trekkies in mind to pick up on the many references in the movie that otherwise would go over everyone else’s head.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-10 19:15:02 +0000 UTC

All I heard was Bonnie Raitt's "I can't make you love me" in my head the whole time watching these fells be disappointed with a movie I absolutely adore. And that's ok. Different strokes for different folks.

Christopher Boutwell

2025-01-10 19:15:02 +0000 UTC

She should have been upset. They degraded her character for a cheap laugh.

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 19:12:21 +0000 UTC

Yes, I did say that it has flaws. I will further elaborate that most of those are story-related and a few are production-related. The Rura Penthe section of the movie suffers quite a bit from being way too long. Some of the cut scenes from other parts of the movie should’ve been left in.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-10 19:12:02 +0000 UTC

I was wondering how you'd react when you saw Michael Dorn's name is the credits. It wasn't quite what I expected still like it though. From what I heard this was Worf's grand father. On another note please try to watch the directors cut. However, don't do it until you have at least seen the fist season of Deep Space Nine.

Keith S

2025-01-10 19:09:47 +0000 UTC

I watched on YT since ST IV before switching to Patreon somewhere in TNG S3 so I guess I’m fairly new.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-10 19:08:42 +0000 UTC

This fan take more accurately depicts what it would have looked like (and the effects are breathtaking) https://youtu.be/OdRUL8RbDw8?si=kMgzmPUPmNFARErS

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 19:08:35 +0000 UTC

to be fair about the "Wrath of Kahn" hype that Alex likes to reference, regardless of how you guys felt about it - it is universally considered the best TOS Star Trek movie and by a significant margin. it's not baseless hype from a movie that no one has seen before (see: Will Smith Suicide Squad before it came out). the hype is earned and proven over the last 40+ years.

penoyer79

2025-01-10 19:08:00 +0000 UTC

Bingo. My experience exactly.

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 19:07:16 +0000 UTC

I have watched Star Trek since the 70’s and saw this in the cinema when it came out. It was a fun movie but that is all, too many goofy moments for me. I think many Trek fans can’t see past their love of Star Trek when rating things like this.

AzoriusMage

2025-01-10 19:06:37 +0000 UTC

One of the reasons that I suggested that they watch the directors cut was for the additional scenes like this one that added context and more detail to the overall story. Oh well…

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-10 19:05:20 +0000 UTC

Nichelle Nichols was angry about the Klingons translation scene. She felt Uhura would definitely be able to speak Klingon, the writers and director disagreed.

Leyton Jay

2025-01-10 19:03:32 +0000 UTC

I'm pretty sure its the same effect I had. As a kid/teen i thought this was great. As an adult I kinda think its one of the weaker movies.

Ben Smith

2025-01-10 19:02:22 +0000 UTC

I will agree that it really dragged in that escape scene. Sadly feels like filler. But I did generally like this movie.

Joe Concepts

2025-01-10 18:55:27 +0000 UTC

Amazed you didn’t love this

General Trelane

2025-01-10 18:46:26 +0000 UTC

Fun fact the Targ was played by the same Chimp as Muffit

AzoriusMage

2025-01-10 18:38:15 +0000 UTC

Senator Pardek from 'Unification' is not in the movie, but he was added to the novelization as an aide to Ambassador Nanclus. (He is not yet a Senator at this point in the timeline.)

David Brown

2025-01-10 18:36:35 +0000 UTC

While honest, gotta admit it's tough to fully enjoy a reaction when one of them is completely and obviously checked out so early in the film. Kind of soured the experience, even if I can understand it to a certain degree.

Lovok

2025-01-10 18:34:02 +0000 UTC

I'm not. Inversing him a is fair bet. If it's something the fans like, he usually is repulsed lol.

Aaron Wells

2025-01-10 18:29:35 +0000 UTC

I’ve always enjoyed this movie, not a huge fan of the Rura Penthe stuff tho. My fave movie is still to come.

Darren Seal

2025-01-10 18:27:58 +0000 UTC

Trek sometimes plays too loose with impulse speeds. TMP was the only film, I think, to really do it right.

Lovok

2025-01-10 18:25:08 +0000 UTC

I'm surprised Josh didn't like it, not because of expectations or that I like it, but because his face the whole way through seemed to say, "I like it." I was thinking I would split screen Darmok and this and pretend the two of you like everything. :)

John M.

2025-01-10 18:23:07 +0000 UTC

Valares role was supposed to be Savik, making the betrayal hit a little harder, but the actress didnt want to come back so they created a new character.

penoyer79

2025-01-10 18:07:49 +0000 UTC

Very interesting they don't seem to like the Nicholas Meyer films as much, which are generally regarded as the best. If I were to rank the TOS films, it would probably go 1, 2, 4, 6, 3, 5, although 5 has a bit of distance from the others, and 3 & 6 sometimes swap depending on my mood. They're all A-range films (maaaybe B+ at worst) for me except 5 (C). I really like 6, but it's not without its flaws. The Shakespeare quotes DO get old, the penal colony DOES drag (although I like the landscape scenes & score when they get out), the Valeris & Chang reveals ARE overly telegraphed, and the end IS quite rushed and a bit goofy. But it's a bit sad the guys didn't seem to care for so many of its virtues, i.e. the score, the allegory, the many story-relevant callbacks, the effects, and how beautifully it knits together the TOS era to the TNG era thus making Trek a more coherent and consistent storytelling universe. It's always a bummer when reactors don't like something widely cherished, but it's good that they're at least honest about it. One of them being soured on it so early on did make this reaction a tough watch at times though -- that's just me being honest too. This feels like "Darmok" all over again haha. :)

Lovok

2025-01-10 18:02:53 +0000 UTC

Half Impulse inside Spacedock… there's a video on YouTube showing how INSANE that command is! It's ¼ the speed of light.

Leyton Jay

2025-01-10 18:02:23 +0000 UTC

I fall into the "started with TOS" group. I used to watch it with my dad in the 60's when it originally broadcast. I thought IV was great, but disliked V so much, I skipped VI. When I saw the reaction was coming here, I decided to watch VI last week. Let's just say, I am on the Alex side of this reaction. Seeing Michael Dorn was interesting and there were a few nostalgic moments. But the story wasn't particularly compelling. Did I hate it? No. Would I watch it again? No.

Dale Williams

2025-01-10 18:01:28 +0000 UTC

A good sign, as to Alex & Josh's age, and when this was written, when Spock quoted the ancient Vulcan proverb, "only Nixon could go to China", Alex and Josh clearly didn't get it. When I was twenty, and saw this in the theaters, all the older adults laughed.

startrekiborg

2025-01-10 18:00:14 +0000 UTC

While I disagree with your view on the movie, I absolutely respect that you are willing to stand by it, no matter how unpopular you know it will be. Straight shooters.

EnigmaticPenguin

2025-01-10 17:54:54 +0000 UTC

Hmph... well, that was disappointing, but not at all surprising in the end. But I did hypothesize that if someone would end up not caring much for the movie that it'd be the other way around. I understand Wrath of Khan - It's much older and the film style was a bit... , nvm, no need to rehash. But this movie??? Let me guess, their next movie that they have a low opinion on will be First Contact and their ultimate favorite will be either Insurrection or Nemesis. 😅

John McCurdy

2025-01-10 17:54:19 +0000 UTC

While I respect your opinion on this movie, just as Josh mentioned, it was very obvious and unfortunate that Alex just checked out halfway through the movie. I've noticed a similar pattern in some of your TNG reactions, where you don't take it scene by scene, instead some character or whatever irks you in one scene, and from that point on your opinion on them is set. Detracts from my viewing pleasure to be honest.

Yorin

2025-01-10 17:51:44 +0000 UTC

I also want to give a shout out to Kim Cattrall's performance as Valeris in the scene where Spock mind melds with her to extract as much information as possible. I thought that was intense and well done.

Forbidden Donut

2025-01-10 17:34:29 +0000 UTC

The movie hit my generation more because of the Berlin Wall coming down and the fall of the Soviet Union which is what Leonard Nimoy was going for in writing it. So the movie is cemented in a certain point in history.

Terminaldogma01

2025-01-10 17:33:07 +0000 UTC

I think I've heard something similar. Makes one wonder what this script might have been without the rewrites, another lesson certain modern studios need to learn.

Julie Carter

2025-01-10 17:31:33 +0000 UTC

Well, he said he liked the "little moments" between characters and a lot of DS9 IS that. So, there's still a chance.

THE LORE!!!

2025-01-10 17:30:33 +0000 UTC

side note, I'll be really curious to see what you think of the TNG films when you get to them. I've always thought all of them are just not as good as the TOS films and are big departures from the characters' characterizations in the TV series, but maybe you'll feel differently. They certainly vary in quality as much as the TOS films. And post-Abrams Star Trek is so wildly different from everything that came before.

Kristina Weber

2025-01-10 17:29:34 +0000 UTC

Fascinating reaction. I hope you do revisit this another time, no disrespect, but it definitely felt like quite a few things / themes went over your heads and I agree with Josh that Alex in particular seemed to have disengaged early on. A shame but if you’d been told this was a brilliant film I’d understand, it’s not the best film you’ll ever see, but it is a worthy and appropriate send off for the original crew especially in the context of following on from Star Trek V.

Jordan Cooper

2025-01-10 17:29:05 +0000 UTC

I agree that it's nice that you are not afraid to have unpopular opinions. As long as you appreciate the TOS series+film material, it's ok by me if you have your own preferences lol. I love this movie and don't mind its corniness and references. As a kid, it was very easy watching and warmed my heart to see how the adventures ended for this incredible team. I like that everyone in the cast got a chance to shine. Much as I love some of the other TOS films, some are so tightly focused on Kirk, Spock, and McCoy that you don't get much from the rest of the cast.

Kristina Weber

2025-01-10 17:27:25 +0000 UTC

More like Deep Space Yawn, amIright? But seriously, yeah at this point I'm just going to stop talking about that show and let it play out. Seems to just set things up for disappointment.

Forbidden Donut

2025-01-10 17:27:09 +0000 UTC

I always wondered what was up with that because Klingon blood is usually also red, as I recall. Makes sense IRL, but continuity takes a hit.

Forbidden Donut

2025-01-10 17:25:50 +0000 UTC

SFDebris's review of this movie discusses that the gaseous anomaly scanning part was a rewrite because Shatner objected to Kirk/Enterprise being saved by Sulu/Excelsior. Not sure what his sources are but he usually produces pretty well researched content. I agree, it's dumb, but it wasn't the original intention.

Kristina Weber

2025-01-10 17:24:34 +0000 UTC

Nobody mention DS9 season 6 episode 19

Terminaldogma01

2025-01-10 17:23:52 +0000 UTC

This one benefits from a rewatch and I personally think the "special edition" reinserts things that really help flesh it out. But you said you're not interested in revisiting it (though Josh said he might before the discussion so who knows), so I guess it'll just remain in the realm of meh for you guys.

THE LORE!!!

2025-01-10 17:23:50 +0000 UTC

We love them both but we haven’t finished TNG yet

Josh (Target Audience)

2025-01-10 17:23:32 +0000 UTC

Well, if Alex feels like we made Star Trek 6 out to be the 'second coming of Christ', I can only imagine what we've done to his expectations for Deep Space 9. I hope he tries not to hold that against the show when they get there. Especially the earlier stuff. I'd really like to believe they'll both like DS9 a lot overall, but then again days like today are a reminder that you never can tell when they're going to shut down on an episode or movie, so.... fingers crossed, I guess....

Forbidden Donut

2025-01-10 17:23:27 +0000 UTC

Spoiler. This is not shown in the theatrical version.

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 17:23:17 +0000 UTC

So I am old enough to have that context and I do appreciate the intended messages in this film, but I also see plenty to critique here looking at it with modern eyes that I didn't pick up on during previous watches. The biggest is the assumption of so much cultural knowledge that it will inherently not hit as well for people with out that context.

Julie Carter

2025-01-10 17:20:43 +0000 UTC

I can understand them not being impressed by the 'mystery' when it's not that hard to sniff out, but I do agree with you a little bit in terms of 'As opposed to what, one of our beloved characters suddenly turning heel at the 11th hour?'. The only other option that comes to mind is even more new characters, but then the problem becomes giving them each their due with limited screen time, I suppose. And I agree I thought 6 is one of the best-looking of the Kirk movies. I'm surprised to learn in the comments it was on such a tight budget. Once I knew to look for it, I can see all of the TNG sets, but I thought they handled it pretty well in that regard. I'd be curious to know more about Gene's objections to the prejudice in the movie. I know he was always adamant that humans were no longer prejudice toward one another, but I thought they could exhibit biases against alien species? That having been said, the movie lays it on thick. On the other hand, the Klingons HAVE often been presented as, comparatively speaking, rough, crude, more 'animal-like' in certain respects compared to the humans, so it's not exactly out of left field to some degree, either. I'm not sure they wanted it to be an 'Endgame' level end-of-the-universe plot, but I would like to hear more from them both as to what they felt would have been a more satisfying final story for the crew than this. I wonder if the title and the teaser trailer made them anticipate more of a grand exploration film? Maybe something more like the first movie?

Forbidden Donut

2025-01-10 17:18:32 +0000 UTC

I see what you did there

Jovet

2025-01-10 17:10:24 +0000 UTC

CV... you... you & I... 🖖🫂

A G

2025-01-10 17:10:04 +0000 UTC

I was alive during the Cold War, and I don't particularly care for this film. I don't find it very entertaining, it's just preachy political drama.

Jovet

2025-01-10 17:08:34 +0000 UTC

I wonder if a Vulcan poured that tea 🍵 🤔 👀

Fishing Trip

2025-01-10 17:08:25 +0000 UTC

Ag is that lower decks guy

Fishing Trip

2025-01-10 17:07:44 +0000 UTC

ST5 felt a lot cheaper to me than 6. I don't know if it's overrated or not because I had long thought it was a pretty well-liked movie, but their reaction plus some of you guys' comments here have been eye-opening to me, I'll say that. What character issues do people have? I know some have mentioned Uhura, and I can appreciate that one because you'd think she could speak Klingon. What others? As to the Klingons, I can buy that some would want peace after their power/economic situation took a turn towards a downward spiral. The movie suggests that after the explosion, their Empire was set to die a slow death over the next 50 years. On the other hand, I think other Klingons would absolutely rather go out in a blaze of glory, though to be fair to the movie we both hear that in dialog ('better to die on our feet than live on our knees') and see it with Chang, who probably represents many others in the empire. I can buy it being a divisive issue among them. I think I agree about the new characters not being as compelling as I remembered. I think in retrospect I like their actors more than how they're actually written.

Forbidden Donut

2025-01-10 17:06:15 +0000 UTC

Well, remember, their Star Trek journey is their own.

Jovet

2025-01-10 17:03:34 +0000 UTC

The lore surrounding that character is... head scratching.

Jovet

2025-01-10 17:02:15 +0000 UTC

I thought Gene just objected to the character of Saavik (which everyone appeared to really enjoy) turning baddie.

Jovet

2025-01-10 17:01:53 +0000 UTC

I just want to say - I really appreciate the fact you guys are not afraid to go against the general consensus. This is probably overall the favourite movie amongst fans and it’s nice to see an honest reaction whether it’s good or bad (or mid). This and number 8 are my favourites, I’d love to see a running tier list for the movies!

Worf and Riker Ride Again

2025-01-10 17:01:21 +0000 UTC

I had not seen it at that time. He kinda lost his head in that part. ;

startrekiborg

2025-01-10 17:00:25 +0000 UTC

I forget which, but one of them during this reaction said TOS was their favorite show of all time, I believe.

Forbidden Donut

2025-01-10 16:59:52 +0000 UTC

For me it suffers from Nick Meyer putting too much of his cynicism into Star Trek. It’s like someone was having a bad day and made an angry Star Trek movie.

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 16:59:29 +0000 UTC

That and the warden was going to kill them all eventually so for him it really didn’t matter. No witnesses.

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 16:58:16 +0000 UTC

It's too virtue-preachy to me. The Klingons are not really believable, seems unlikely they'd just change their minds and "want peace." The supporting characters (e.g. not the Enterprise crew) are not compelling. (Perhaps other than Azetbur.)

Jovet

2025-01-10 16:57:56 +0000 UTC

That's interesting. I started with TNG, and yeah I've always liked 6. I didn't realize TOS fans felt differently. I think one of the things I appreciate about it is how it helps to stitch together Kirk Trek and TNG Trek to help them feel more like one universe or continuity a little more. It also helps to see various actors I've seen in '90s Trek appearing as well, who I have a positive bias towards just seeing them again.

Forbidden Donut

2025-01-10 16:57:21 +0000 UTC

He stood out to me because of his role in “The Omen”.

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 16:57:16 +0000 UTC

I like christian slater in the rom coms of the 80s/90s and I'm happy for him. to be a star trek fan, would you try to be in the movie, if you had the connections? better then shatners daughters in TOS and ST V.

Redjac

2025-01-10 16:54:28 +0000 UTC

Very surprised? Are you new here?? 🤣. 3 is their favorite. 2 is one of their least favorites. They typically like the films many fans like the least or think are mediocre.

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 16:52:19 +0000 UTC

Ok, I stand corrected. I remember there being a lot of talk among fans and in some of the printed coverage of the movie that this movie established that.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-10 16:47:01 +0000 UTC

He stood out to me because I had been a fan thanks to Tron & Time Bandits.

startrekiborg

2025-01-10 16:46:47 +0000 UTC

To be clear, I regularly attend the theatre festival they acted at in Stratford, ON and I do follow the references, which is why I never really noticed until this rewatch how much that detracts from this script. It's everywhere. "Only Nixon could go to China" being a Vulcan saying or "Once you have eliminated the impossible..." being from Spock's ancestor and assuming everyone will know that it comes from Sherlock Holmes. There is an awful lot of assumed shared cultural knowledge in a film that explicitly calls out that it's kinda screwed up that the federation is so human centric.

Julie Carter

2025-01-10 16:46:37 +0000 UTC

The great parts of this movie are Chang and, to a lesser extent, the mystery behind the assassination. But the Rura Penthe stuff in the middle drags it down. I really like this movie overall, but it's definitely a mixed bag.

Jeff Cornell

2025-01-10 16:45:26 +0000 UTC

maybe. not red blood is good for the deleted scene at the end.

Redjac

2025-01-10 16:44:22 +0000 UTC

In their defense, Warner was really only in 2 or 3 scenes in 5. He was completely wasted.

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 16:44:21 +0000 UTC

I’m very surprised, and disappointed, that you were both that negative about the movie. I didn’t expect total love for it, but not this level of criticism. I think comparing what we all said about building it up it to the “second coming of Christ” is a huge overstatement and I know for me, not appreciated. Yes, the movie has flaws, they all do. But, this movie was released at the end of 1991 when the Soviet Union (Russia) was falling apart, countries under its control were becoming independent, and the Cold War (which many of us grew up during) was ending. This movie is a commentary on that and has to be looked at in that light. I know those who are younger than Gen X, like both of you, won’t appreciate the context as much or perhaps not at all, but even with that I still think you were too critical and negative about the movie.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-10 16:41:53 +0000 UTC

5 is a bad movie with many good moments. 6 is a good movie with several bad moments. I have more fun watching 5 than 6.

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 16:41:29 +0000 UTC

It's too preachy for me.

Jovet

2025-01-10 16:41:16 +0000 UTC

Michael Dorn is playing Worf's grandfather, according to him during an interview right before this came out. They should have explained that, but obviously missed.

Steve Krautkramer

2025-01-10 16:40:16 +0000 UTC

Son of the casting director!? Lol

Julie Carter

2025-01-10 16:40:16 +0000 UTC

I don't think they prefer TOS out of all Star Trek they've watched? One favorite episode perhaps.

Paul

2025-01-10 16:37:25 +0000 UTC

🖖❤️

MrTickleTrunk

2025-01-10 16:35:34 +0000 UTC

They rushed this film into production for the 25th anniversary.

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 16:34:23 +0000 UTC

So it's always stood out as sign of the quality of this script that they screwed up their "Chekov's Gun" of the gaseous anomaly scanning. The Excelsior was doing the scanning mission in the beginning, not the Enterprise. Shatner and Plummer had done Shakespeare stage acting together years earlier. The story goes that Plummer improvised some Shakespeare line when they were filming the end of the film (which they did first) and I believe Meyer loved it so much they rewrote the whole script to add all the quotes and such and the "Original Shakespeare" line. It can be funny if you know the references etc, but really it's kind of an early example of the dangers of too many call backs in modern media. You are limiting your potential audience to people to get the references, and that's not a great long term strategy.

Julie Carter

2025-01-10 16:31:25 +0000 UTC

🙄

Jonathan Llyr

2025-01-10 16:28:45 +0000 UTC

Finally one of the moments I've been waiting for, y'all watching my favorite Trek movie! Wish I didn't have to work so I could watch this already! Not skipping to the end so hope you enjoyed it!

Murtaugh

2025-01-10 16:20:02 +0000 UTC

You’re wrong. It’s overrated and made on the cheap. And the character issues are a crime.

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 16:17:52 +0000 UTC

At a Star Trek convention in Tucson in early 1991, William Shatner was the main guest. He relayed a story about when filming the Rura Penthe scenes with DeForest Kelley, Shatner played a trick on him. Each time De went to toast a bagel at craft services, Shatner would come along after a distraction and remove the bagel, causing DeForest to become worried he was losing his memory (or mind). When Kelley found out what was happening, he yelled like hell at Shatner.

Collin Freeman

2025-01-10 16:10:52 +0000 UTC

Damn. That's disappointing to hear. I bought a copy of the movie just so I could watch the full length along with them. Now I don't want to.

Chris Nunnally

2025-01-10 16:09:54 +0000 UTC

Tiberius is mentioned in TAS.

T’Pynyn of Vulcan

2025-01-10 16:06:49 +0000 UTC

I can't tell you why, due to spoilers, but judging from one of your reactions, you guys have GOT TO watch the original RoboCop.

startrekiborg

2025-01-10 16:02:36 +0000 UTC

I'm surprised you didn't recognize David Warner as Chancellor Gorkon. He played the Federation Representative on Nimbus 3, in Star Trek 5.

startrekiborg

2025-01-10 16:00:53 +0000 UTC

“Blame Bill Shatner”. And there it is…a completely wrong conclusion.

Column Meanie

2025-01-10 15:58:43 +0000 UTC

Bones and Kirk get sentenced to Hoth, aka Rura Penthe.

Collin Freeman

2025-01-10 15:58:14 +0000 UTC

Good story beats big set any day. If story is compelling and characters engaging, we’re good.

Shanelle

2025-01-10 15:57:42 +0000 UTC

Data’s grandpa also made an appearance, was hoping you’d recognize him and give us an “Oh my GOD, it’s APOLLO!” type of pop. ;)

OmniRaider

2025-01-10 15:55:55 +0000 UTC

It's Worf's grandfather. His father's name was Mogh. He's always called Worf, son of Mogh.

startrekiborg

2025-01-10 15:55:09 +0000 UTC

The Worf in this film is TNG's grandfather for whom our familiar Worf was named.

Collin Freeman

2025-01-10 15:52:23 +0000 UTC

The fake Kirk didn’t have leg chains on, so it was easy for the warden to know who to shoot.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-10 15:48:32 +0000 UTC

Thank God! Finally... some Star Trek "noobs" that don't think Star Trek 6 is the best thing ever. I don't hate it, I do like it, but it is so not the best and Gene Roddenberry was right to not like it! An observation I have made about the movies... depending when you became a Star Trek fan seems to dictate how much you like 6. People that started with TNG generally seem to like 6 the most. Those of us that started with TOS do not seem to regard it as the best.

Mark Magana

2025-01-10 15:48:29 +0000 UTC

Yep, they did well on a relatively tight budget, it just doesn't make for the spectacular finale that some people might have hyped it up to be.

Utterlee

2025-01-10 15:42:38 +0000 UTC

I have not gotten to watch the reaction yet as I am at a guy dog school training for taking home a new guy dog it consumes all of my days. When I get back to the dorm tonight, I’m gonna watch this. However, it sounds like your opinion blew up this page like the Klingon moon of Praxis

Thicketdweller

2025-01-10 15:40:00 +0000 UTC

Blame Bill Shatner, who nearly killed the film franchise outright with Star Trek V. They were lucky to get this movie made at all. Cast took pay cuts to get this thing made. Lots of reused sets, no new filming miniatures at all. Every shot down to the wire. Working within immensely limitations. Just like Star Trek II, and often just like TOS.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-10 15:35:36 +0000 UTC

The gulag planet is definitely a pacing problem. I’ve fast forwarded through it on more than one rewatch. Aggressive editing and yet another spectacular score help set an exciting pace outside that middle stretch. It ties for 2nd place with II & III for me. All three are pretty solid despite their issues. A-. (ST IV will always be the GOAT for me.)

rear adm. crackbiscuit

2025-01-10 15:35:24 +0000 UTC

3,6,2,1,4,5.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-10 15:30:45 +0000 UTC

Having watched you guys react to it, knowing that you prefer TOS out of all the Star Trek you've watched so far, I realise that its one of my favourites because its the most TNG of the original cast movies. The political cold war esque plot, the character moments. A build up to the action rather than being led by it.

Lee Trayler

2025-01-10 15:29:18 +0000 UTC

Well first, the 'haha' means a joke, not to be taken too seriously. But the fact I love STIII while most people including the comments here rate it quite low means it really doesn't bother me when people don't feel the same way about a thing that I do, so the people that built these things up under the "I love it, so A&J are sure to love it too!" assumption are just setting themselves up for a disappointment of their own making. It's ok to be disappointed, but the "No, you're wrong about it and I'm right" attitude that some people respond with is unnecessary and tiresome...

Brendon Waldron

2025-01-10 15:28:53 +0000 UTC

Another “head scratcher” of a reaction. This is one of the best Trek movies - of any generation - ever made. I agree with some of the comments that bring up the fact that if you don’t know much about The Cold War or didn’t live through it that this film might not have the same impact but there is so much more here. Sometimes I just don’t get these guys.

Jonathan Llyr

2025-01-10 15:27:17 +0000 UTC

LOL. People do overrate this one. It's a perfectly good film but not quite in the same league as II, III and IV. The racism is a bit "eek" now too, and overall it looks a bit cheap, re-using far too many of the TNG sets in a barely concealed way, and with limited location work etc.

Utterlee

2025-01-10 15:23:55 +0000 UTC

Damn, I just got to work....I can't wait to get home.

MrDeadstu

2025-01-10 15:21:46 +0000 UTC

2, 6, 4, 3, 1, 5 - It's the even ones.

Sam Langanke

2025-01-10 15:21:05 +0000 UTC

Just brainstorming for earlier snowy environments in Star Trek, I’m coming up with All Our Yesterdays and Star Trek III (“Snow, in the same sector!”).

James H

2025-01-10 15:19:17 +0000 UTC

lol.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-10 15:19:12 +0000 UTC

Well as long as everything is right in your corner of the world I guess that means any detractors are just "butthurt" eh? FWIW my favorite is also Star Trek III, but I wouldn't take people to task for being unhappy or disappointed that A&J did or didn't like a particular episode or film. That's always a bummer.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-10 15:18:29 +0000 UTC

I wish I could remember my first reaction to this movie. But then again, I can't remember much from my early 20s... My personal ranking from best to worst would be 6, 4, 2, 1, 3, 5.

Chris Mickelson

2025-01-10 15:16:31 +0000 UTC

Wow guys... Ah... I really think like 80% of the movie went right through you. Worf. Worf, In this case; the lawyer, is the father of Mogh, Worf from TNG's dad. AKA Worf's grandpa. AKA Mogh, named Worf, after his own father. Which tells us a little something about Mogh. Kurtwood Smith plays the Federation President. His race is called "Efrosian." We see one of them in Star Trek IV. "Oh the only other named character is the bad guy." Yeah... That's literally every episode of TOS and TNG that features a plot involving personal antagonism. The guest characters are usually "the badguys." "Kirk fights a blue thing." Kirk fighting an alien is right out of TOS. Kirk fights aliens. The whole script is literally a send up to Star Trek. What the Hell? "Oh the guy they had tension with was in on it." You've watched this much Star Trek at this point and that is somehow.. bad? Guys, that's every time there's a badguy on screen. What the actual Hel!? LOL. Also the implication there is you would have been happier to see one of our guys be the turncoat. Would it have been better if Chekov or Sulu were the badguy? Their last voyage together, and we lose one of them to a plot twist? No! Incidentally, Valeris was supposed to be Saavik, but Kirstie didn't want to do it, Robin Curtis was never asked, Gene Roddenberry objected. He objected to just about all of the bigoted overtones, missing the part that it was setup for the foil that was the ending. Even the best of us can get stuck in our ways and preconceived notions. To deny that is to deny human nature, and you do that at your own peril. Yeah, this is a personal story, about Kirk overcoming his pain from the events of Star Trek 3, and the crew saying goodbye. It's not a universe ending "endgame." Everybody got a moment to shine, and everyone said goodbye. Also, given the budgetary issues, they really worked hard to make this, arguably, the best looking of the six Trek films. Hiro Norita's cinematography blows everything after TMP out of the water. I will say the only thing that I think has aged poorly is how overtly the Chernobyl analogue was trowled on. Down to the "Gorkon" "Gorbachev" name similarity. It's a little too on the nose. it's not bad, per se. I just wish it wasn't layered on so thick. I'm really shocked. I was expecting Alex would enjoy this for its murder mystery/who done it plot. We get a lot of Kirk and Bones, (just as with the first episode of TOS, and we get some good jabs, some subtle, between Spock and McCoy. I'll be interested to see if your thoughts have shifted at all when it comes to the discussion video, and to hear your more nuanced takes at that point.

Steven Johnson

2025-01-10 15:16:04 +0000 UTC

The Federation President is an Efrosian. There was another Efrosian on the bridge of the U.S.S. Saratoga at the beginning of Star Trek IV.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-10 15:15:53 +0000 UTC

This is when Kirk’s middle name of Tiberius is established.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-10 15:14:00 +0000 UTC

Colonel Worf is the father of Mogh and Lt. Worf’s grandfather.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-10 15:12:18 +0000 UTC

Honestly, every time I see a comment that says "You guys will love (insert show/movie/episode/character/whatever" I cringe because we've had more than enough evidence now to know that might not be the case and it's just setting everybody up for disappointment.

Brendon Waldron

2025-01-10 15:08:20 +0000 UTC

I understand that they cannot get the huge impact on global history without this movie would not exist and that it was the perfect Trek story for the time. But I am also disappointed they didn't appreciate the little things. Sometimes I regret my membership here.

Sam Langanke

2025-01-10 15:08:10 +0000 UTC

It’s Worfs grandfather. Valaris was supposed to be Saavik.This movie is my favorite of the bunch.

Stephen Morris

2025-01-10 15:06:28 +0000 UTC

The Klingon who gets his arm shot off (played by Brett Porter) is from where I live, Murray, KY.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-10 15:06:16 +0000 UTC

The Klingon’s blood had to be shown as purple, instead of looking like human blood, to avoid the film receiving an “R” rating.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-10 15:03:38 +0000 UTC

(Mental note: Always lower Josh and Alex's expectations.) Hey guys, DS9 sucks.

KevinH

2025-01-10 15:03:30 +0000 UTC

Unfortunately, I predict some butthurt in the comments, but my favourite is Star Trek III and they loved that, so I'm happy haha

Brendon Waldron

2025-01-10 14:57:13 +0000 UTC

I think part of the reason Valeris is obvious is because she was a new character. Originally it was intended to be Saavik, which would have landed harder since she was present at David's death. Also, the Klingon who attempted to assassinate Red Forman was actually human. I love this movie but I'm not upset by the criticism because it's valid in some instances.

Linda Thackeray

2025-01-10 14:57:01 +0000 UTC

1:05 'Who is this guy'?' That would be Christian Slater.

Sam Langanke

2025-01-10 14:56:18 +0000 UTC

It's a shame for TA that plans were abandoned for Star Trek VII: The Bonding

DG

2025-01-10 14:51:06 +0000 UTC

TOS Sex Scoreboard Tried to find a Kirk - Marta hula-hoopin' moment off screen but no. Kirk 12 Chekov 4 Spock 5 Bones 4 Scottie 2 Uhura 1 No changes in the TOS bangin board shockingly. We hoped Kirk would go out with a womping or maybe a Scotty-Uhura hook up or maybe even poor Sulu finally getting a little sump-in-sumpin. But no. There we have it. The final Board of the whole TOS crew.

Prof Moff

2025-01-10 14:42:22 +0000 UTC

Sorry, I was busy breaking up Kelly Kapowski and Zach Morris, what did you say?

A G

2025-01-10 14:22:33 +0000 UTC

Little known fact, in the 24th century Alaska is part of Canada. Source: I made it up.

Phillip Grischa

2025-01-10 14:22:30 +0000 UTC

Yes, Riker is from Alaska.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-10 14:00:33 +0000 UTC

I give you guys all the credit in the world. You like what you like, and are fair about expressing yourselves. I love this movie for many reasons, but I am also in my 50s and therefore come at it from a different perspective. Your honesty is essential for me to watch you react, and you should never fear saying how you feel. I know from watching you react to this that when you love something, you mean it. That's what being a critic is all about and what makes you guys essential viewing.

Eric Singer

2025-01-10 13:46:39 +0000 UTC

It's his grampa I think.

Zack

2025-01-10 13:34:33 +0000 UTC

I disagree with you. Making peace with an enemy is a timeless concept that is as relevant now as it was then.

ShazD

2025-01-10 13:34:04 +0000 UTC

Isnt he Alaskan?

Julie Carter

2025-01-10 13:31:13 +0000 UTC

This is my 2nd favorite TOS movie behind Wrath, but knowing how Alex and Josh react after seeing so many of their reactions..... I have a bad feeling that there are simply not going to like it..... Watching the react now

Matthew Ganz

2025-01-10 13:29:13 +0000 UTC

It does, but that plot point is sort of central to the movie. Making peace with an implacable foe has layered meanings, and it comes off as forced or hoky without the context of how monumental the real world scenario actually was.

Matthew Ganz

2025-01-10 13:27:36 +0000 UTC

This movie has a lot more to offer than a cold war allegory... I hope they don't dislike it.

ShazD

2025-01-10 13:23:43 +0000 UTC

Agreed, this is my favourite and most impactful -feeling Trek movie to me. TWoK and FC may be "better" films, but this movie says and does so much!

Ross Townsend

2025-01-10 13:16:55 +0000 UTC

Well, that’s my evening sorted!

Chris Christison

2025-01-10 13:15:57 +0000 UTC

When they both disliked Red October, I figured it would be the same for this movie. Without the context of being alive or even studying the cold war which is played as an allagory of the Klingons Vs The Federation, a lot of the movie loses its "umph".

Matthew Ganz

2025-01-10 13:15:53 +0000 UTC

This was my conundrum! I think I'll make (or order) a big breakfast and sit with the boys on Saturday morning, and make an event out of it! Can't rush one of the most exciting watches since they started this journey!

Ross Townsend

2025-01-10 13:15:40 +0000 UTC

Kirk's "cowboy diplomacy"

The_Truth

2025-01-10 13:08:38 +0000 UTC

Do I wait for the weekend and keep my job, or watch today and jeopardize it????

Paul Hess

2025-01-10 12:59:49 +0000 UTC

The replies later will be exciting :)

Spencer Loften

2025-01-10 12:57:38 +0000 UTC

I was just about to go to bed.... Oh well who needs sleep. 😁

Linda Thackeray

2025-01-10 12:52:38 +0000 UTC

Damn, I just got to work.

Anthony MacEwan

2025-01-10 12:51:51 +0000 UTC

I have plans today so I'll have to get to this one this evening, but excited to watch!

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-10 12:50:16 +0000 UTC

I've been waiting for this one, just beats Wrath of Khan as my favourite TOS movie. Interesting reaction to real world politics and Star Trek's first political thriller, can't wait to see what you make of it.

Leyton Jay

2025-01-10 12:43:22 +0000 UTC

RIP sulu's lovely cup of tea

SinocTheHodgeheg

2025-01-10 12:39:42 +0000 UTC

I knew there was a SEXY reason I took today off. Sorry, Canadian here, ... everything we do is sexy. That is why Commander RIZZ Riker is Canuck, and like Alex and Josh, Sexy is just a state of being.

A G

2025-01-10 12:39:36 +0000 UTC

AT LAST!

Brian Dunleavy

2025-01-10 12:36:20 +0000 UTC

UNCUT - Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country | Star Trek Journey 216

Comments

I love this movie. The best ending we could have hoped for. We would never get anything close to this today.

Star Trek Generations (7) 1994 is good. Star Trek First Contact (8) 1996 is the best.

Great film. Saw it six times in theatres....was very relevant for it's time

Worf, son of Mogh, son of Worf.

Colonel Worf is Worf's grandfather

I enjoy 5 alot. It's very character driven. :)

I have always disliked this movie. Never understood why people like it so much. Hell, I liked 5 more than this one.

Hmm I never really thought about it but it’s true. I think things move fast for the she of brevity.

I saw that on VHS 📼 when I rented it at age 12 but not in theaters I was like huh? My first Mandela effect?

🤣🤣🤣

I personally find DS9 to be peak Trek but each to his own. Sadly can't discuss the whys of it yet. They are inching ever closer to it though.

I would honestly take the original TOS look over anything NuTrek.

Yeah I’ve always noticed that. You can really feel it and probably contributes to the bland second act

It was always disturbing when she resists but I believe it was meant to be. Desperate times call for desperate measures. The need of the many…

Ya, they didn’t like Hunt For Red October either. Maybe you had to live through the Cold War with the Soviet Union to feel the subtext of these films.

I loved the scene where Spock and Kirk talk about getting old. It perfectly sums up the Star Trek films. It feels like watching your Mom and Dad aging, with all the good and bad that comes along with it. It's a different kind of Star Trek.

i agreee the whole prison sequence sucked and the movie would have been better off if it was just deleted

The YouTube comments are gonna be a bloodbath

Respectfully need to inform you that DS9 shits all over this movie. To pick this point to say "it's all downhill" is one of the takes of all time.

So wrong.

They've still got a lot of great stuff to go though. I mean there's all of DS9 for starters.

Allegedly Cattrall had her Vulcan hair, ears and eyebrows on but nothing else in the photos. The other part of the story is that Leonard Nimoy found out and personally destroyed the photos. Nimoy was asked about this during fan Q&As at conventions and had denied knowing anything about it.

I hope your business model includes that you've already experienced peak Trek. While each series has its amazing episodes, overall its all downhill from here.

That scene is disturbing.

The Klingon lawyer defending Kirk and McCoy in the Klingon trial was Michael Dorn (Worf), his character Colonel Worf was the grandfather of Worf from Star Trek The Next generation

We are on the same page. STMP was meh, II, III and IV were very good. I disliked V so much, I didn't watch VI until last week. They should have stopped with IV.

If "being enthusiastic" has clear negative repercussions and you do it anyway, then it sure is child like. You're entitled to think differently of course but that's my opinion.

I agree with you about TWOK, but not about TUC. I think the cut scenes, two in particular that give a lot more context to the assassin that Scotty shot, are important.

This thread actually seems civil. Calling people "whiners" isn't civil though.

Yes it was. Others have pointed out that for some reason on this 4K if you don’t have subtitles on it removes ALL subtitles, which is why it shows like that here. Luckily we always have subtitles on when we watch on the tv.

Question. I noticed at one point the spoken Klingon wasn't sub-titled in the symc clip whereas mine was? Was all the Klingon translated for you, or not?

Spoilers

Best post of this thread! I wish I could be as articulate. Nailed it!

David Warner will return...

Because now, it's offensive to hate your enemies... 😂

Derek, really? Such garbage?

I'll be gone long before you start watching modern Trek. Watching you guys react to garbage isn't in my future.

You never know...

Stop with the ridiculous attacks of racism. It's a movie for God's sake. Aren't they allowed to hate their enemies?

If you can play a disc your local library might have it. I have the Blu-ray set with all the TOS and TNG movies and have never watched any of the TNG ones, although since I personally don't avoid spoilers I pretty much know at least part of what happens in all of them.

430 comments! Wow! 😲😲😲

I was going to watch the reaction but I can't find the film anywhere to stream for free, so I'm out of luck.

I don't really care for 6, didn't enjoy 5 much, and 1 was ...really odd. Not bad, not great. Just WEIRD.

I think the quiet was the emotion of realizing they were watching the last TOS movie and weren't enjoying it.

yup!

I'm not sure I'm going to watch the reaction. After seeing the movie for the first time a couple weeks ago and not being really impressed and then reading through some of the comments I can't really work up any enthusiasm for it.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer VI overall, it's just that the trilogy of II-IV are so crazy good that the other three fall flat for me in a way. There's stuff to like and not like in I, V, and VI

How is Star Trek VI on the same level as V that's madness 😂

We definitely need battles.

I'll agree, to a point. As I said, I was twenty and I didn't get it at the time, but the older adults did, like my parents. But, I get it now.

Yup, well, they can care about plots and allegories and all that but only if they first care about the characters. It's the inverse for me. I can care about the characters but usually only if the plot is gripping enough.

@Spencer Loften You should watch it again.

TNG is a tv show. If one of the TNG movies is them playing around in the holodeck I’d be disappointed.

Being enthusiastic and looking forward to their enthusiasm and enjoyment is not inherently child like

I’m fascinated people find it pedestrian and subdued given the severity and magnitude of the events of the plot. Perhaps its a generational thing for this gen X cold warrior lol

Ya that is something that I find rather unique about them and also frustrating to understand lol. I cant comprehend enjoying something as much as they do purely for the characters and with such little investment in the plots and politics and allegories and science 🤷‍♂️

Unpopular opinion: we as a community need to tone down the hype. Seems everything that comes down the pike is “best moment of Star Trek evah!” And that is a really fast way to ruin anticipation.

I mean this IS a discussion thread and forum about the movie and their reaction…so your point about diversity should also apply to yourself before advising anyone to insert foot coverings called socks into ones face hole🤷‍♂️

I’ve delayed my watch as well. I was going to as soon as I got home from work Friday but seeing the comments I figured I didn’t want to be disappointed after the week I’ve had. I’ll probably watch tonight or tomorrow.

Pretty old? I mean there are TONS of things in pop culture that predate most people and are quite recognizable. And I mean the tv show Sherlock, starring a rather famous actor was on from 2010 to 2017🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

😆 🤣 😂

And funny, well done Ferengi episodes! With great casting of people of this race. Starting with Armin Shimerman as Quark.

@Worf and Riker Ride Again I guess I must have! Also not for me. But I can say the same for 7 too.

I'm convinced the whole film was written around that one scene.

@Steven Johnson John M. mentioned "Darmok"

I thought it was alright although i've only seen it once and that was over a decade ago. I think I gave it something like a 7 on first watch. I was considering going back to watch it again but their review is giving me second thoughts.

🤦

Remember, DS9 had something that carries over from TNG to keep Alex and Josh watching.

And the trailer made it look like Kirk was vaporized. Of course it was Iman but still.

I'm of the mind to see a film to FORGET current political machinations. I don't need to pay money to be lectured to, preached to, shat on, or even re-live real life. That is not entertainment, for me.

@penoyer79 I have interesting opinions about that myself, but it's too early for me to go on about it because spoilers.

racial prejudice ≠ racism

I think it’s also the pacing, the Rura Penthe bit is too long and yeah definitely the last act felt very quick watching again. I still love the movie but I’m coming more from an art point of view - the acting and visuals / production in this film are absolutely amazing.

They're quiet when they're hanging on every word, too.

Something that I never picked up on until years later: Spock mind-melding with an unwilling Valeris would have been taboo in Vulcan society; akin to mental rape

The rose colored glasses cover all mistakes.

Yeah I've watched this movie many, many times and enjoyed it every time, but rewatching it while watching someone else watch it made me notice a lot of weird pacing and editing choices that hadn't occurred to me before...

I saw this film on video a year ago for so after it came out and I didn’t know the reference either. You have to be pretty old to get it now.