Target Audience / PATRON TAKES - Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country

It was in “the making of” documentary/commentary on the first dvd release. The death bed comment was metaphorical. They mentioned he was starting to not not feel well when he screened the film, and he never made it to release.

Nathan Walker

2025-01-12 16:44:20 +0000 UTC

what time does st6 drop on patreon?

penoyer79

2025-01-10 00:35:29 +0000 UTC

the beef between Shatner and Takei escalated during this movie because in the script sulu was the one who figured out how to use the torpedo to target the klingon ship... but Shatner demanded that Kirk had to be the one to figure it out and had it changed, robbing sulu of a big moment in the movie.

penoyer79

2025-01-09 21:07:02 +0000 UTC

I recall both Nick Meyers and Nimoy himself employing the "R" word for this scene. Spock digs into her brain with both hands, she resists and he forces himself on her. She screams in horrified agony and Spock is visibly shaken when he's finished. Other members of the bridge crew look on in shock. "Assault" is the only YouTube friendly word for what is happening.

Alexander McKechnie

2025-01-09 11:42:02 +0000 UTC

A proper send off for the TOS crew. First star to the right and straight on till morning.

SetsunaYuki

2025-01-09 04:48:04 +0000 UTC

Never noticed it. It's probably good enough for most people I think.

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-09 02:33:00 +0000 UTC

Rura Penthe does get a little Last-Jedi-casino-ish but it's not egregious.

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-09 02:30:50 +0000 UTC

I just assumed all of starfleet was on a big gaseous anomaly scanning spree.

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-09 02:29:50 +0000 UTC

If you look at the reverse shot of Chang during the final battle sequence, where the explosion comes through the viewscreen or canopy or whatever, the actor is replaced by a dummy so they can safely carry out the explosion effects on set. There's a similar shot in Fifth Element from behind Tricky's character in the airport phonebooth where he explodes and also in the opera house where they have 3-4 Mangalore guys up on ther second level as Tucker and Willis exit under the wheeled table thing. Chang and Tricky's dummy replacement shots had a bit too much lead in for me, as they're too still for too long on screen. Not the worst thing but it is noticeable.

tkitez (take it easy)

2025-01-09 02:29:07 +0000 UTC

"Assault" is a charged word. Interrogated, perhaps.

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-09 02:24:48 +0000 UTC

At best, you can say Kirk enjoyed a good bout with a Klingon, but they hardly have reason not to resent them.

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-09 02:23:11 +0000 UTC

I hope you realize they don't read takes this unbelievably long, right?

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-09 02:21:08 +0000 UTC

What's a 'dummy shot'?

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-09 02:20:23 +0000 UTC

SHOOT HIM

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-09 02:19:19 +0000 UTC

To be fair, Star Trek got new music quite often and it was mostly all spectacular.

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-09 02:17:25 +0000 UTC

Apparently the special effects guys loved it too...

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-09 02:16:35 +0000 UTC

In this age of overzealous anti-racism, it's difficult to use species archetypes to tell a story. But ignoring all that, the crew extends every courtesy to the Klingon diplomatic party despite their reservations about Klingons. They show growth over the movie but I still feel they were a shining example from the start.

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-09 02:15:50 +0000 UTC

Glad they didn't kling to that name.

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-09 02:09:38 +0000 UTC

At long last, you'll see why everyone was screaming at you to watch Star Trek VI before TNG, as well as why you were absolutely right not to do so. (Sorry for my long absences, guys. I've had this Patron Take composed in my head for at least a year, though.)

Anthony Bernacchi

2025-01-08 14:13:01 +0000 UTC

This is my all time favorite Star Trek movie because the themes have been relevant at every stage of my life. Do I want things to change, or to stay the same? Do I support a group, fight against a group, or take my own path? Do I shape the future, or step aside so others can? Almost every character is answering these questions for themselves, and the story is the consequence of all their choices combined. I love many of the other Star Trek movies for different reasons, but this one is a thoughtful reflection of life’s journey, wrapped in an excellent presentation.

Quension

2025-01-08 07:24:05 +0000 UTC

in truth chekov never got much in any movie but what I will give credit in #6 is that they gave him for once, stuff to do that was his actual job, security. We only see snippets, but it shows him effectively doing his job - finding the blood etc etc. And looking back at that scene when we did not know who was the guilty party, it almost made him even look suspect as he did so for a split second - that to me was great use of unfortunately what has become a side-character.

Ben Smith

2025-01-08 06:01:13 +0000 UTC

I’ve always thought that the comment that Uhura made about having all that equipment for cataloging gaseous anomalies was a jab back at Star Trek five and the big vacuous gas bag of crap that it was

Thicketdweller

2025-01-08 05:43:08 +0000 UTC

“That wasn’t his knee, not every species keeps its genitals in the same place, captain“ Another one of those lines that just stands out in the entire franchise Delivered by IMAN, or Martiel, or as you might know her, supermodel, and the wife of the late singer David Bowie

Thicketdweller

2025-01-08 05:42:14 +0000 UTC

I'd assume USA got different home releases than other countries because I have heard of what you speak of a lot over the years...but the VHS release in Australia and the televised release later all had these scenes intact - I still have the version I taped from TV and the purchased VHS. Except for the torpedo tube countdown, which is intact, it still has Chang's ranting. I always felt Mccoy was saying "give real money if he'd shut up" not "she'd" as they had an open com to the bridge due to Spock and McCoy giving updates on their work, with an open com, changes rant on the bridge was blasting in Spock and McCoys ears.

Ben Smith

2025-01-07 18:12:31 +0000 UTC

speaking of novelisations, some MJF's novelisations of TNG are the best for any interested. He literally finds a tiny side hook of an episode and creates a second episode in the novel. An away mission mentioned but not seen? You get that full away mission with full backstory of all extras.

Ben Smith

2025-01-07 18:08:41 +0000 UTC

I always thought Chekov got a raw deal in this one. He's the audience surrogate, asking questions that Spock can answer, so they forward the plot. It hits a low point in the galley, where Chekov (former security chief in The Motion Picture) asks about the phaser setting off the alarm. It's a great scene, but it makes him look dumb. (Personally, I would have liked to see Dr. Chapel make a quick cameo in that scene. She could ask that question and it would make sense that she didn't know. Same result, better execution.)

tyranusfan

2025-01-07 14:10:47 +0000 UTC

They briefly referred to it as "Kling" in TNG's Heart of Glory, but I think everyone silently agreed that it sounded stupid and never said that again.

tyranusfan

2025-01-07 00:24:43 +0000 UTC

After Cliff Eidelman finished the score for VI, he oversaw the the "Star Trek Astral Symphony" CD/cassette release, in which he picked out his favorite pieces from the first five movies.

tyranusfan

2025-01-07 00:23:25 +0000 UTC

There's a line in the novelization, which I assume was in an earlier draft of the script, which I wish was in the movie. The end of Spock's line is "...would that constitute a joke?" and Kirk replies, "the difference between comic and cosmic is the letter S." That always made me laugh when I read it.

tyranusfan

2025-01-07 00:20:28 +0000 UTC

I have more to say about this movie than you’d ever want to read. It’s my favorite of the TOS films. There’s a lot of connective tissue with TNG woven in, from the obvious (Colonel Worf and the wording of Kirk’s last log entry) to the subtle (a lot of tech terminology throughout the movie is more in line with TNG than the earlier films).

tyranusfan

2025-01-07 00:16:05 +0000 UTC

I would agree. If Savik were in the film instead of Valaris, it would have made for an overall better film. And would have made the betrayal hurt more. It would have also given her character an actual arc. Even if it were a decline.

Kristopher

2025-01-06 19:34:15 +0000 UTC

Story and execution, generally a solid A, as a kid/teenager I loved Star Trek 6. However, as an adult, the cracks begin to show with this movie. Knowing what we know about klingons by 1991, it felt really silly to have them romanticise human literature so much. The cold war connections were played a little too literally. Great movie but I felt it could have done with further script revision before filming. Although granted, there is a lot of writing fire gesture moments, especially between an introspective kirk and Spock when alone together. it's also odd we never truly got an explanation later in TNG on how Qu'nos itself was apparently saved and remained habitable. "Is it possible that we two, you and I have become so old and so inflexible, that we have outlived our usefulness?" skip a bit "Come on -I- need you." - That is Kirk fire right there, replies to his friend that he is still needed.

Ben Smith

2025-01-06 17:28:46 +0000 UTC

I think we hit a record with Patron Takes and comments for an upcoming reaction! Over 300! Wow!

Chris S.

2025-01-06 15:50:50 +0000 UTC

YES! And another favorite actor both guys know and love so well................ ML

Rhett Coates

2025-01-06 15:11:10 +0000 UTC

Another line spoken by DeForest Kelley came during the court trial: Chang asks what "Stand Down" means, and McCoy replies "Retire," to which Chang then said, simply, "Ah." That was in the theatrical release and is now no longer found on any version I've seen since then.

Rhett Coates

2025-01-06 15:09:21 +0000 UTC

Agreed. Racism is incorrect. They are shaped by their life experience, which is Klingons being bloodthirsty and violent. That creates the dislike (or hatred, if you like) displayed by the crew. Kirk even moreso given the murder of his son. Very much akin to people's attitudes towards Germans following WWII. It wasn't a race thing, it was the behavior of the political regime of a country and the violence inflicted upon the allies during that conflict. This could be applied to the Klingon Empire in the same way.

Kosh Naranek

2025-01-06 15:03:22 +0000 UTC

Yeah that's true, but it's pretty close. Later when I heard an orchestra play it I was like "hey I've heard this before". I love the arrangement that they use for ST6 though. Not like any other trek scores and adds "weight" to the movie. The entire score is fantastic in my opinion.

Russell Elledge

2025-01-06 04:47:37 +0000 UTC

🖖🏼

Chris S.

2025-01-06 03:28:41 +0000 UTC

Yeah. That's a great piece of reasoning on the wrong ship. But, I just figure all starships have equipment to investigate gaseous anomalies, in case you run into one whilst exploring.

RRTthatsme

2025-01-06 02:05:13 +0000 UTC

All Home Releases of this movie edit out the countdown in the Torpedo Tube. When I saw this in the theater (more than once), McCoy's line "I'd give real money if she'd shut up" is directed at the female computer voice counting down while Spock and McCoy are frantically working on the Torpedo. For some reason, that I've never been able to uncover, the countdown has been removed. Instead, it sounds like McCoy is referring to Chang's Shakespearean rant. (Though, it seems unlikely it would be broadcast throughout the ship all the way into the torpedo tubes.)

RRTthatsme

2025-01-06 00:16:25 +0000 UTC

That would be the 1/537 kit. The Polar Lights 1/350 scale is over two foot long assembled.

Monty Crawford

2025-01-06 00:12:04 +0000 UTC

Ah maybe, TBH I have no idea - all I remember was that I watched and loved ST6 when I was around 7/8 and then sometime after I had an model kit for what I thought was the Kronos 1. I (badly) glued it together but never painted it, I remember it being a blueish-green plastic

Worf and Riker Ride Again

2025-01-05 23:37:58 +0000 UTC

Great take - quick check though, although it was inspired heavily by Holst, it wasnt the same as "Mars" from the Planets suite. Heavily influenced, though 👍🏼

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-05 22:52:12 +0000 UTC

This is my favorite of the bunch. Closely followed by III. They feel the most like TOS.

Owen Madden

2025-01-05 18:37:57 +0000 UTC

This is my personal favourite Star Trek movie. I love the political intrigue and detective story, Warner and Plummer are great guest actors, it rewards the viewer for paying close attention, tons references and trivia (which I'm sure you've been flooded with already by other commenters), and the send-off for the crew just gets me in the feels. Luv it ^-^

JHVJ

2025-01-05 17:47:08 +0000 UTC

I saw it in the theater at 10. I still remember a old (old to me...he was probably my age now) Trekkie laugh at that line. I didn't really get it and didn't get it at the time. Lol

Greg Quinn

2025-01-05 09:44:30 +0000 UTC

Good movie overall. Not one of my absolute favorites but I do enjoy it. They could have done a lot worse for a send off.

Spencer Loften

2025-01-05 07:33:48 +0000 UTC

Different franchises

Jeff Lawson

2025-01-05 05:39:09 +0000 UTC

Those are all the same tune. Star Trek 1 vs 2 vs 4 vs 6, totally different

Jeff Lawson

2025-01-05 05:38:19 +0000 UTC

Every series with John Williams?

C

2025-01-05 05:25:57 +0000 UTC

This movie, while it has a few hiccups, is a very good send off for the original crew. Certainly better than the previous one. The villain is engaging, and see Sulu the way you do is so cool!!

Joseph

2025-01-05 05:09:20 +0000 UTC

This is my favorite movie from The Motion Picture era and the only one I got to see in the theater. I was 10 at the time. Each member of the original cast gets a good moment. There are so many quotable lines from General Chang's non-stop Shakespeare to McCoy's "I'd give real money if he'd shut up" and McCoy to Kirk "What is it with you, anyway?" Not to mention Spock telling Starfleet to "Go to hell." Kirk's final Captain's Log and the cast signatures are a perfect send off. Fun facts: -General Chang saying "Don't wait for the translation!" , is a real-life quote of US ambasador to the UN Adali Stevenson. He said that to the Soviet ambassador during the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962. -The explosion of Praxis was dubbed "the Praxis effect" by Industrial Light and Magic and was the inspiration for the updated Death Star explosions in the Special Editions of Star Wars and Return of the Jedi. Tie-ins with other Star Trek: -Admiral Cartwright and the Klingon Ambassador return from Star Trek IV -Janice Rand returns as communications officer aboard the Excelsior -Kirk and McCoy's defense attorney Colonel Worf is Lt. Worf's grandfather -The peace conference is held at Camp Khitomer. Implied to be the same Khitomer where Worf's family was killed. -In Star Trek IV, Sulu hoped the crew would get the Excelsoir, he got it as Captain.

Encarta

2025-01-05 05:06:22 +0000 UTC

This movie just gives me good feelings all over. Christopher Plummer and David Warner are fabulous! Fun Fact: Valeris was originally written to be Saavik but the creators decided that Saavik would never behave that way.

T’Pynyn of Vulcan

2025-01-05 03:10:04 +0000 UTC

I am here for Michael Dorn reactions in open credits !!!

Jiri Luza

2025-01-05 01:13:56 +0000 UTC

I’m proud to say this is my favourite TOS movie, narrowly beating Wrath of Khan, mainly because of how politically meaningful and timely it was. Leonard Nimoy described it as “the Berlin Wall coming down in space” as a result of the Klingon’s own Chernobyl-like disaster, events we were all still reeling from in 1991. It puts to bed the conflict with the Klingons who’ve always represented the Soviet Union, just as that old enemy disintegrated in the real world. It’s a fight for peace, a fight to overcome prejudices that have built up in our characters over decades and a fight for everything Star Trek is supposed to mean. *****

Leyton Jay

2025-01-04 23:02:27 +0000 UTC

So just a bit of trivia: The story was based on the collapse of the Soviet Union, with the explosion of Praxis being inspired by Chernobyl. Also.. the Vulcan Traitor, Valeris, was originally supposed to be Saavik. But (thankfully) that got changed. (Thankfully because I didn't think that betrayal was in Saavik's character)

Andreas Schmitt

2025-01-04 21:46:03 +0000 UTC

I just refer again to one of my favourite Kirk moments in Balance of Terror: "Leave any bigotry in your quarters, there’s no room for it on the bridge." I do not like the idea that Kirk would later become a captain who did now tolerate bigotry on his bridge and could get to a place where he hated an entire race. Even though he accepts his prejudice in the movie and learns from it, it did not ring true for me that he had got to that point in the first place and that affects my enjoyment of the movie. That is my personal view. I am not for one second saying that anyone else is wrong if they love the movie and if they find the characterisation believable. And I am certainly not saying that the movie glorifies racism, that is clearly not true.

Richard Stone

2025-01-04 19:58:55 +0000 UTC

My favorite movie out of the entire ST franchise. I was 11 and it was the first time I was anticipating seeing a movie in the theaters. The Star Trek 25th anniversary special aired just before it, pumping up the hype. I never knew until recently that the opening credit theme music is "Mars" of the Planets Suite by Gustav Holst. Love everything about this movie. Great casting and nice to see David Warner be given a better character than he had in ST5.

Russell Elledge

2025-01-04 19:19:32 +0000 UTC

Another example how Trek broadens your horizon. Even regarding American presidential history: 'Only Nixon could go to China." At this point in my life I associated Nixon only with Watergate. But if it is ancient Vulcan wisdom said by Spock I had to look it up.

Sam Langanke

2025-01-04 18:12:38 +0000 UTC

I'm getting that take from comments like this... >> a lot of people have issue with the racism the main cast are displaying and this... >> I hate seeing our formally noble characters turned into racists. ...to cite two.

Max Shenk

2025-01-04 17:25:38 +0000 UTC

I don't think your reading the complaints right. the issues some people seem to have is that Kirk's hatred of Klingons and his coming to terms with it seem (to them) inconsistent with his previous character and actions and something that was created just for this particular plot. I don't necesarily agree with that take, but I don't think anyone here is saying trek 6 is bad because it justifies or glorifies racism, I really don't know where you're getting that take.

paultardspambot .

2025-01-04 17:13:06 +0000 UTC

The feelings I have for this movie are so connected to the rest of the movies rather than the series, and it still was a BANGER, and that’s just a testament to the movie itself and how good it is ! I haven’t seen it in over a decade and it still holds a special place in my heart ! What a way to end their adventure !

Sixto

2025-01-04 15:36:14 +0000 UTC

Thanks again for the education. As someone who has only seen most of the Star Trek movies, the original series, and next generation never knew that was a different character. It is surprising to me that the writers would intentionally mislead the audience with having a familiar actor play a different character with the same name. Considering that Klingons never name their children with the name of an ancestor.

Hidden Ruu

2025-01-04 15:33:22 +0000 UTC

I just want people obsessed with racism to leave Trek, Star Wars, etc. alone. LEAVEITTHEFUCKALONE! Good grief, let me enjoy my movie in peace. Krik's feelings about Klingons are understandable considering they killed his son. Unresolved grief makes one bitter. But that's his set up for his character growth. Setting aside deep personal grief for galactic peace.

Chris Mickelson

2025-01-04 15:27:58 +0000 UTC

Uhhhh... STAR WARS? INDIANA JONES? It doesn't have to be "best" or "better than others" in order to work the way it should and still be great in and of itself.

Max Shenk

2025-01-04 13:43:11 +0000 UTC

No. No. No. Are the characters EXTOLLING OR CELEBRATING OR ENDORSING RACISM? At the end of the movie, could you honestly say that any of the characters are "racist" or was their "racism" a device or character trait that was introduced, and, through the story, overcome? The "racist" characters either see the error of their limited vision OR get their come-uppance, right? People throw around the word "racism" like the Enterprise crew and Starfleet is suddenly riding around wearing white sheets and hoods and CELEBRATING IT. Like it's being put out there as an ideal or virtue and not as a device for story or character growth. Further reinforcing my belief that many people who use the word don't know what they're talking about.

Max Shenk

2025-01-04 13:41:55 +0000 UTC

To me, it depends on if you view this as an isolated work or as part of an established universe. Are the characters’ actions in this movie believable and understandable within the context of the story? Yes. Are they consistent with the previous 25 years of storytelling? No.

Richard Stone

2025-01-04 13:34:28 +0000 UTC

With 'Qo'noS' or 'Kronos' we get a name for the Klingon planet at last. I still don't know why it took so long. I always found it odd calling it only 'Klingon homeworld" to this point. Even in 'Redemption".

Sam Langanke

2025-01-04 10:25:12 +0000 UTC

I keep seeing the word "racism" here and would simply like to pose a question to anyone who feels that the characters or story elements are "racist" in some way. Do Kirk and other characters celebrate or glorify racism, or is the characters' discomfort around race and cultural and species differences used as a plot device for redemption and growth? I find most viewer-reader-pundit complaints about supposed "racism" in artistic works to be cloying in a kind of "better point this out to cover my ass" way, an attempt to appear politically correct, and usually a signal that the viewer/reader has only a surface understanding of a work and hasn't gone deeper. If you walk out of the theater because a character or story seems "racist" to you, that's your prerogative, but you may miss the redemption arc, and that means that the problem isn't with the story or characters, but with you. Just sayin'...

Max Shenk

2025-01-04 10:12:19 +0000 UTC

Love the channel guys, even if my opinion differs sometimes, Iove your honesty, don't ever change! Undiscovered Country is my favourite Star Trek film. Fun fact, the signing off at the end of Avengers Endgame was inspired by the end of this film!

thereisnoothershoe

2025-01-04 09:15:47 +0000 UTC

especially if you rewatch it in a mirror

David Marcoot

2025-01-04 08:12:29 +0000 UTC

My personal favorite of the core Star Trek films, even above Wrath of Khan. I consider VI so perfectly paced: so much is done in such a short period of time, from assassination to prison to perhaps the best space battle in the entire franchise. Yes, the movie makes the legacy characters morally questionable and it leans deep into post-Roddenberry in-universe fictional!politics, but I believe it's the best of the best of what 90s Trek was capable of doing. Whatever you think of this film, I can only hope it's at least a great ride for y'all.

Shortskirtsandexplosions

2025-01-04 07:39:09 +0000 UTC

Really great send off for the TOS crew. Great story, great fun, great film.

Cirk Bejnar

2025-01-04 07:31:45 +0000 UTC

Thx:-)

Sebastian_Frodo

2025-01-04 06:31:39 +0000 UTC

Great take 👌

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-04 06:26:43 +0000 UTC

Great take

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-04 06:22:22 +0000 UTC

The Enterprise should have sacrificed itself as the distraction with Kirk on comms hamming it up and taunting Chang to give a wounded Excelsior time to set up the torpedoes. Kirk still find the victory from the no win solution, while the Excelsior and Sulu get the kill. Why can't Kirk f'ing delegate??

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-01-04 06:14:27 +0000 UTC

"Are you my mummy?" 🚑

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-04 06:13:10 +0000 UTC

My headcanon is that Valeris IS Saavik. That decision elevates the film and the greater canon so anyone arguing otherwise does so from a fool's position.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-01-04 06:12:01 +0000 UTC

Great take, and I can believe it...

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-04 06:10:40 +0000 UTC

And it's such a well delivered line

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-01-04 06:01:59 +0000 UTC

👍

Nolan

2025-01-04 05:47:39 +0000 UTC

I love the Bird of Prey exploding at the end. I can watch that explosion on repeat. What a memorable special effect.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-01-04 05:43:57 +0000 UTC

You mean when Kirk gets in that fight and gets his ass kicked and then basically kicks the guy in the balls?

Aaron Wells

2025-01-04 05:26:01 +0000 UTC

It's a fair bet general audiences have no idea what listing means, being that it's a nautical term. Sort of like when the guys questioned why Riker used the phrase "hold fast". A lot of nautical language that gets lost in a sci-fi context. Personally, I think all that naval tradition is key to the flavor of Star Trek. Almost completely missing in Nu Trek.

Aaron Wells

2025-01-04 05:22:58 +0000 UTC

Yes, but despite all he's been through, Kirk is wise enough to know it was the wrong thing to say (publicly), and that he knows he said it because of his emotions.

startrekiborg

2025-01-04 04:03:21 +0000 UTC

1 made more money than any Trek film until Trek 2009 came out.

Column Meanie

2025-01-04 03:57:43 +0000 UTC

My feeling about it has always been good but not great.

Collin Freeman

2025-01-04 03:56:50 +0000 UTC

My Favourite of the original Trek movies, I think this is personally S tier. I think the actors are all on their A game, the guest actors all do a fantastic job, Christopher Plummer as Kang is having a blast overacting, and it works great for his character. a lot of people have issue with the racism the main cast are displaying, which is fair, but in universe, it kinda makes sense. These characters have been in a state of cold war with the Klingons for most of their career, some have lost friends to it, others family. They are also old, and set in their ways, so change is something that is of issue. And it does get a chance for the characters to show growth in the film, and introspection, through Kirk's reaction to the Klingons. The music is also on point, and has a few of those great Trek moments, especially Kirks "Fire!" at the final battle. I do think the film would have been better if they'd managed to go with the original plan, and have Saavik in the place where Valaeris is.

Thomas Cole

2025-01-04 03:49:50 +0000 UTC

The 1/350 Kronos 1 was released as a kit in 2023. The 1/350 K'Tinga was released in 2018. Are you thinking of the 1/537 K'tinga that was released a couple of years after The Motion Picture?

Monty Crawford

2025-01-04 03:41:17 +0000 UTC

Oh, that is terrible. I kinda love it.

Thomas Cole

2025-01-04 03:40:41 +0000 UTC

I think Shatner was right, the Enterprise needed to save itself. I think changing the line at the start, saying the Excelsior was leading the fleet in doing it, would have fixed the issue. You could even have thrown in a bit with crewman saying Excelsior overtaking Enterprise as lead ship of the fleet, and had Sulu reprimand them about badmouthing Enterprise.

Thomas Cole

2025-01-04 03:39:07 +0000 UTC

I can see both sides. I Kirk is still angry and hurt over the loss of David, and reacted emotionally. I think if instead of an immediate regret, he'd paused, thought about it, and reacted in regret, I think it would have worked for both points.

Thomas Cole

2025-01-04 03:34:53 +0000 UTC

That's fair, but the only reason it got made is cause Nicholas Meyer new how to stretch a dollar twice as far. For what he got in this film for his budget, I think the quality to cost ratio is quite high. Many of the more expensive Trek films didn't do so well, like 1 and 5, so after 5 not doing so well, they didn't get the budget for this film it had, but they spent it well, on the things that probably matter most, the cast. I can see the optimism of this film isn't in the fun adventure, but in that we can, even at the age of this crew, be better, move passed our flaws, which is what Trek has always been about, humanity bettering itself.

Thomas Cole

2025-01-04 03:31:39 +0000 UTC

1) Incorrect, it was Gene complaining about it being "against Saaviks character", Meyer not being quite happy with Robin Curtis' performance in 3 and 4, and not being able to afford to get Kirstie Alley back as they couldn't afford her. They wanted Saavik in that role, and that would have done much to make her betrayal worse.

Thomas Cole

2025-01-04 03:24:23 +0000 UTC

we're not sure the A was new at the end of IV, there is some discussion it is the recommissioned USS Yorktown, which is one of the original refit Constitution's like the original Enterprise, so she probably is getting close to 40 years old. I do like how they talk about the Enterprise being an old ship at 30 years, where in TNG they are still using Excelsior and Miranda class from this era, 71 years later.

Thomas Cole

2025-01-04 03:19:16 +0000 UTC

I don't think when Kirk says he always hated Klingons, I think that's hyperbole. He may hate them now after David's death, as he has got older, as they took part of his future from him, and as he's got older, that missing family has worked on him more. And he and Gorkon are right, people of their generation are going to have the hardest time living in this new future, as they have always been adversaries. Worse for Klingons, as they live so long, which is why I think so many Klingons are very adversarial to the Federation in TNG times, as for most Federation species, it's been a couple of Generations since they were at war, for the Klingons, maybe one?

Thomas Cole

2025-01-04 03:15:33 +0000 UTC

Dude, we get it, no need to be so verbose.

Thomas Cole

2025-01-04 03:08:15 +0000 UTC

If we look at at Kirk from a viewpoint of all the trek we've had, he's been in a Cold War wit the Klingon's for most of his Career, conflict with them has cost him crew, letters to family he's had to write, and they killed his son. His prejudice wasn't taught, it was learnt through experience. and his development in this film in regards to it is great.

Thomas Cole

2025-01-04 03:06:54 +0000 UTC

Name me another franchise that had multiple banger scores.

Jeff Lawson

2025-01-04 03:06:32 +0000 UTC

The biggest issue with Valaris is she was originally supposed to be as returning Saavik, but that was nixed by Gene, as he didn't think it fit with her character (to which Nicholas Meyer was apocryphally said "how would he know, she's my character, I wrote her!") and switching her over Valaris, it well fixes so many plotholes. Now she's doing it because of her experience in WoK and Search for Spock, the Death of David, Spock's reaction to her betrayal, the whole film works better.

Thomas Cole

2025-01-04 02:58:26 +0000 UTC

Perhaps you will review "To Kill A Mockingbird" from 1962 one day, and you can contrast why it was such a big deal to have Brock Peters, of all actors, refer to Klingons as "alien trash" in the 23rd century.

Alan Thompson

2025-01-04 02:58:09 +0000 UTC

Probably the best TOS film, not to take anything away from ST: WoK but for me this just pips it. Christophe Plummer is great and I always get a bit emosh when they sign off at the end.

ByRikersBeard

2025-01-04 02:34:28 +0000 UTC

My dad got me the model kit for the Kronos 1, I was a little too young at the time but I still thought it looked awesome

Worf and Riker Ride Again

2025-01-04 02:30:55 +0000 UTC

I added a comment earlier but have just binged the rest of the TNG episodes not yet on YouTube - I’ve never watched ST in release order and holy shit - the amount of storylines interconnecting throughout is crazy. Redemption, Reunification and the movie tying up is a big fat Ferengi chef’s kiss 👂😘👌👂

Worf and Riker Ride Again

2025-01-04 02:29:26 +0000 UTC

This movie has a special place in my heart as it was the first I saw in a movie theater. Terrific acting, great story, and great send off to the crew that had such a tremendous impact on us!

Terrell Harkness

2025-01-04 02:00:21 +0000 UTC

Hamlet has been translated into Klingon. Or more accurately, restored to the original Klingon. https://youtu.be/RF0k4qV1I1Y?si=qTya4U-BBjJ8WdUO

Greg Quinn

2025-01-04 01:59:52 +0000 UTC

Agreed....that kind of mindset can indeed happen when a someones son or daughter child is killed.

Greg Quinn

2025-01-04 01:54:32 +0000 UTC

“We volunteered?!”

Reality Strikes

2025-01-04 01:39:02 +0000 UTC

I don't feel she and Kirk interacted all that much. Not enough impact. That was a weird episode because the alien entity was the prime cause of the conflict. If anything, that was the first (if not the second) episode which hinted at a brighter future relationship between the Federation and Klingons.

SuicuneSol

2025-01-04 01:03:50 +0000 UTC

My favourite TOS movie, everyone played their part in it, and they didn't get too wrapped up in it being the end until the very end. The music in this movie was also fantastic, that opening score by Cliff Eidelmen, I still go back to it. Reminds me of a Danny Elfman Batman score. Nice cameo from Michael Dorn also, think he was Worf's grandfater in canon (?)

Daragh Graham

2025-01-04 01:00:09 +0000 UTC

Hot take

Ca$hWednesday

2025-01-04 00:56:30 +0000 UTC

Shatner hated the line, but the line was well earned after what happened to David. But it's important to note - as the movie proved - It was simply an emotional response from Kirk, nothing more. When push came to shove, unlike people like Admiral Cartright, Kirk didn't act on his hate for Klingons and backed the peace treaty. actions speak louder than words.

penoyer79

2025-01-04 00:50:55 +0000 UTC

ST6 is my second favorite TOS movie and a solid send off to the original crew

penoyer79

2025-01-04 00:45:42 +0000 UTC

As you well know, I'm a model builder and have the specific kit of the Klingon Battle Cruiser Kronos 1 depicted in the movie. Just wondering what you thought of it. You may not have noticed but there are many additions to the hull that are military medal decorations, each one signifying past battle victories. It had been through a battle or two...

Monty Crawford

2025-01-03 23:38:55 +0000 UTC

I think the issue can be best described by using the film Gran Torino as an example. We so demonize racism (as we should) that we forget that someone can be racist, but also be a good man: That people are complicated creatures full of contradiction and love and hate; that we can have both virtues and vices at the same time.

Kristopher

2025-01-03 23:22:42 +0000 UTC

She was also scripted with the line “but would you let your daughter marry one of them?” to Chekov, but she refused to say it. And Brock Peters struggled with his “I must protest” monologue as he found it very difficult to be seen as the man who portrayed Tom Robbins being a racist. While I understand Meyer’s angle in having these characters say such racist dialogue, he obviously didn’t understand the actors’ hesitancy and I hope he learned why he was in the wrong here.

Column Meanie

2025-01-03 23:17:59 +0000 UTC

To me this isn't just the best Star Trek film, it's one of my top ten favourite movies ever made. I think there are so many fantastic moments in this, even just small things, such as a moment of dialogue. I love that the co-stars in the crew each get a lot to do. I also love the guest stars.

jon bolton

2025-01-03 23:17:01 +0000 UTC

Also, I think this film is interesting in the lore of Star Trek because we see what the leadership of the Klingon Empire was like before TNG. And how many of them, although they knew the seriousness of the disaster they were dealing with also feared how they would decline into some sort of squalor. In early TNG our first interaction with the Klingons were rebels and extremists violently lashing out seeking older more glorious days. Seeing Chancellor Gorkon's cabinet in this film, they seem a lot more reserved and dignified than the TNG Klingons we see in the show, both the ones earnestly seeking peace and the ones seeking conquest. And to me, that aspect makes them appeal to me far more than the rowdier TNG Klingons. While I can high-mind-meta-brain this and know that much of this was written after those parts of TNG to fit the needs of a different story, my desire to see Star Trek as a unified and cohesive universe makes this comparison interesting: how in many ways the fears that Klingon culture would die out in some way has become true, and that their hyper focus on honor is almost self-parody desperately in denial of how far they have fallen. It almost makes me feel like Worf would fit in better with Klingons of this time period than those of his own. That at this time, humans and Klingons were more a like, and that after a unity between species, they purposefully became more different out of some instinctual "need" to be something separate.

Kristopher

2025-01-03 23:09:21 +0000 UTC

No where is it documented that Gene liked this movie. Quite the opposite (and he wasn’t on his death bed. He was very much up and around right up until he collapsed at his doctor’s office).

Column Meanie

2025-01-03 23:07:58 +0000 UTC

My two favorite Trek films are the ones directed by Nicholas Meyer. As a kid, they both bookended the stretch of 5 films (the first one was beyond me at that young age so I sort skipped it until I was much older) Something about the seriousness of how the story and direction was handled on them both, which I just assume was a result of his involvement, felt to me like what I would expect an institution like Star Fleet to actually be like. Any maybe all of those acoustically padded conference rooms in this film may have a large part to play in that feeling for me. Now this film specifically really does feel like a perfect send off, and made use of many of the other weaker elements of the other films (such as the character David, the lack of other crewmen getting much involvement in the story and resolving the crises they face , etc.) Honestly the only real weakness of the film I see is the obviousness of Valaris being the culprit on the ship. Which, sadly I don't think there really is anyway around that sort of the problem. Her being there as a new named character just makes her suspect numero uno by default. However, even though it is a weakness in there being any "mystery" if I accept that as an audience member there is no mystery for us, and that the mystery is for the characters, then I get to just sit back and watch a group of smart, competent professionals do their work in a smart and competent manner. That sort of thing should be the norm, but as we all know, in story telling, it so often isn't... but the fact that in Star Trek 99.9% of the time we have intelligent people tacking problems in intelligent ways is just another reason that it can stand head and shoulders above so many other works, and stand the test of time, decades later... and hopefully God willing, centuries later too.

Kristopher

2025-01-03 23:01:08 +0000 UTC

I thought this was a nice farewell for the crew. With Nimoy and Meyer in charge, it was a good bet this film would be decent. I felt there were a lot of good moments for many members of the original cast. Great twist in the story with Valeris , you can feel Spock's immense disappointment (great acting by Nimoy). I loved Sulu coming to the rescue in the end. "Second star to the right and straight on 'til morning." Ahhhh! Love the writing. The CAST SIGNATURES in the closing credits was an awesome touch! I remember getting emotional as I left the theater, knowing this was likely the end for my beloved childhood crew.

Scott Anderson

2025-01-03 22:58:23 +0000 UTC

Not for the video, but way back when I suggested you guys do the movies in chronological order, and pointed out how it set up a status quo for TNG. That being the Klingon Peace, and Worf's presence on the bridge. Given how it worked out, and that you probably appreciate Micheal Dorn's cameo as his grandpop 1000% more now... I was wrong, it didn't matter as much as I thought.

Nolan

2025-01-03 22:56:53 +0000 UTC

Knowing Shatner, it was either a really subtle bit of acting he did, or it will have always been on purpose if you ask him on Twitter.

Nolan

2025-01-03 22:51:36 +0000 UTC

I wonder how you boys will take "Then let them die." in light of the whole "SHOOT HIM!" bit. Cause I know I thought ahead to this film everytime you guys brought it up.

Nolan

2025-01-03 22:48:58 +0000 UTC

This is my 2nd favourite Trek movie and my favourite with the original cast. It's not perfect, but Nick Meyer poured his heart and soul into making it a proper sendoff for the TOS crew, at one point in tears fighting off budget cuts and a brief cancellation. It acts as a bridge to TNG, it gives us IMO one of Trek's most compelling villains, and between this crew's last mission being one of peace, and that ending log entry followed by the cast signatures, I can't think of a more fitting way to close out the adventures of this crew. Christopher Plummer and David Warner reprised their roles in the video game Klingon Academy, which expands a lot on their characters and acts as an excellent prequel to this movie IMO.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2025-01-03 22:47:55 +0000 UTC

Pretty sure this is where Avenger's Endgame got it's "Signature Credit Sign Off," and yes, I understood that reference in the theatre and appreciated it all the more. A good wrap-up, sequel, prequel, set-up & conclusion film. Don't think anyone else has managed it.

Nolan

2025-01-03 22:46:28 +0000 UTC

It would have been unnatural for Shatner to point up for no reason. My vote is deliberate. A clue for the warden to know who to shoot.

JGoss

2025-01-03 22:43:40 +0000 UTC

The even numbered Trek episode are amazing because of the undeniably excellent guest stars they each had: Ricardo Montalban, Christopher Plummer, George & Gracie. Christopher Plummer was not only a top notch classically trained actor, but Shatner was once his understudy. The two were great on screen together here, and Plummer clearly had load of fun with the role while the director was afraid to hold him back! The three great TOS movies are actually each great in completely different ways for completely different reasons. So instead of trying to make futile comments like “I like this one better” we should recognize them as orthogonal axis, like the X, Y and Z axis in geometry. They are all very good, and don’t impinge on each other in any way.

Paul Hess

2025-01-03 22:21:27 +0000 UTC

A little bit of cool trivia. When the script was finished, many people didn’t like the racism in it including Gene Roddenberry and William Shatner. However when it was all said and done, Gene, on basically his deathbed, screened the film before it came out and gave it his final thumbs up approval, citing, “That’s a good Star Trek film.”

Nathan Walker

2025-01-03 22:15:50 +0000 UTC

I watched this for the first time a couple weeks ago. I'd always heard good things about it, but my first reaction was "Meh". Maybe I need to see it a couple times more, but my next time will probably be when it's posted.

KatWithAttitude

2025-01-03 22:03:24 +0000 UTC

just for fun here the translation: We art thy freighter Ursuva… six weeks out of Kronos… We is condemning food, things, and supplies…”Don't catch any bugs!

Dark Kronis

2025-01-03 22:00:57 +0000 UTC

Well, this is one of my favorite movies, not just Trek Movies... So, if you don't like this... Oh well, I'll keep watching and be a subscriber haha. Interested on your views on a lot of really good scenes in the movie more than your overall view. Don't tell me the "Let them die" line from Kirk/that whole scene isn't great!

Murtaugh

2025-01-03 21:35:25 +0000 UTC

For me this is my favorite Star Trek movie overall of any of the casts. I don't know if I can say it is actually better than others but it's the one I love the most. It just has everything Star Trek is in one spot. It's diplomacy, phasers & torpedos, science solving problems, brotherhood, comradery, espionage, loyalty, and even deep personal emotions giving way for the greater good. Yes it had reused assets and the dialog was a little much but I enjoyed it all.

SentientNPC

2025-01-03 21:35:19 +0000 UTC

Agreed

Chris S.

2025-01-03 21:31:46 +0000 UTC

out of all the TOS movies this one is my Favorite, above all i love the Undiscovered Country. every that happens shapes the future of the Klingon Empire and the Federation, The Khitomer accords allows peace between the two powers. However it gives the old crew an amazing send off to quote Kirk "Second star to the right and straight on till morning, that way (waves hand)* also we Sulu as Captain. i could go on but i'll keep it short.

GamingHour2018

2025-01-03 21:11:45 +0000 UTC

I’ve always thought “That was not his knee” was a perfectly serviceable line, but they ruined it by having her go on and “explain” the joke.

James H

2025-01-03 21:10:50 +0000 UTC

We're going to (Klingon) court! With Bones and Kirk! This movie falls somewhere mid-range for me in terms of the Star Trek TOS films. The cast's age is showing a little too much by now, and yet they manage to pull it off somehow. You have 2-3 captains on board 1 ship, and some characters like Chekov and Uhura who should've been promoted to captain by now but are stuck in their old jobs. Some of the dialog is stilted and too expositional (like firing hand-phasers on a starship). Kim Cattrell does a decent job with a character that was supposed to be Saavik. Shatner's overacting starts to show too much. But Sulu finally gets to command the Excelsior (after a scene on the shuttlepod mentioned it in Star Trek 2 that Shatner wanted cut), we get Nicholas Meyer's unused title for Star Trek 2, and a tie-in to TNG with Colonel Worf for the defense. A B+ for me.

Collin Freeman

2025-01-03 21:07:29 +0000 UTC

Something about "The Ninth Doctor" talking about "Mauve" makes my hair stand on end. I'm sure you know why ...

Paul Hess

2025-01-03 20:50:54 +0000 UTC

Okay... glad that crowd was still surprised. It was a little bit telegraphed for me. shrug Being the only new bridge character with real screen time combined with the (if not for the setup) odd scene in the transporter room with the assassins was enough to tip that the character was at least involved in what was going on.

Lovok

2025-01-03 20:50:13 +0000 UTC

What about the female klingon science officer in Day of the Dove?

Paul Hess

2025-01-03 20:48:44 +0000 UTC

Holy smokes that's a great take on it. Any idea if it was deliberate?

Paul Hess

2025-01-03 20:47:01 +0000 UTC

Pointing out inconsistent character portrayals in back to back movies is politically correct? Sorry snowflake, but bad writing is bad writing. Stop being so sensitive that someone doesn’t agree with your opinion

Jeffrey

2025-01-03 20:15:34 +0000 UTC

As the "finale" of the TOS movie saga (counting Generations as a TNG movie) this is immensely satisfying. It builds beautifully on elements introduced in the previous movies and combines them in a political thriller that sets up the new status quo we see in future of TNG, which was at its own high point. I don't think there was ever a better time to be a Star Trek fan than 1991. The end credits with the signatures always make me emotional, no matter how often I see them.

Tim b

2025-01-03 20:01:39 +0000 UTC

Did you notice that when Martia as Fake Kirk points and says "kill him, he's the one!", she points above Real Kirk's head? Real Kirk then responds by pointing correctly. Martia gave herself away since she's accustomed to being shorter.

JGoss

2025-01-03 19:58:29 +0000 UTC

The music from this perfectly matches the tone of the movie - an uncertain time, contemplation of the unknown, but with notes of hope at the end. Its one of my all time favourite film scores.

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 19:57:01 +0000 UTC

Star Trek the undiscovered country was special for me. As a melienial it was the first startek movie I remember seeing on TV. Never saw the original at this point but was still able to follow along. It's a testament to the movie tha it's still good without the context. I mean yeah it's a lot better with it but I love that it's good on it's own and made me want to see these guys backstories. This is tied with first contact for me as the best. Fun fact I also saw first contact with out seeing almost any tng episodes. And not a single episode that featured ( redacted) and in the same way as 6 it still worked on it's own. P.s my first patreon take how id do

nevets trevel

2025-01-03 19:53:38 +0000 UTC

"Whodunnit", according to Walter Koenig in the 25th Anniversary Celebration

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 19:53:33 +0000 UTC

Chang and Gorkon in Klingon Academy is a fantastic prequel, of sorts, to ST6: https://youtu.be/ZMz-GwQ6IDU?si=ZEbNw4bRhyW99bHS

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 19:50:16 +0000 UTC

Kang, Koloth and Kor may have come close in TOS, but Kruge killing his son in ST3 deeply changed him, until this moment in ST6 where he finally can lay his anger to rest.

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 19:49:22 +0000 UTC

ILM got their money's worth out of variations of that, especially the 'seismic charge' from Attack of the Clones. The VFX technique is even known as the "Praxis Effect" afterwards, from this movie.

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 19:47:50 +0000 UTC

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, the wave effect of praxis exploding you've seen before when Ra's ship explodes in Stargate. It's also been used in independence day, return of the king, and in the special editions of Star wars for the death star explosions and of alderaan blowing up.

SinocTheHodgeheg

2025-01-03 19:44:33 +0000 UTC

It also makes for drama that is much more relatable to our own human experiences. The cultural enlightenment of the 23rd Century is only a veneer of control over our existing base human emotions...

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 19:43:21 +0000 UTC

She also refused to say the "guess who's coming to dinner" line. Chekov utters the line instead, in the run-up to the Klingons' arrival. Nichelle Nichols flat-out refused to say it. It was a reference to the Spencer Tracy/Sidney Poitier/Katherine Hepburn comedy of the same name, wherein a white woman brings an African-American fiancee home to meet her parents. While the film ends with the message that there was never any reason to oppose the relationship, in any case, Nichols felt that having Uhura utter the line was highly distasteful, thus the change.

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 19:40:38 +0000 UTC

I just thought it was a way to soften the line a little. Unnecessary, but I barely remember it.

Max Shenk

2025-01-03 19:38:35 +0000 UTC

Same...

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 19:37:25 +0000 UTC

This... yes! >> By far for me the best part of the movie is how every actor >> just absolutely wears their character like an old pair of shoes. >> Everyone is so comfortable in their roles and the camaraderie is just unreal. That is my favorite part, too. I don't think it's anything like "fan service" to say that that's all I (and most fans) wanted from the last TOS movie: to see these characters together and enjoying themselves and each other.

Max Shenk

2025-01-03 19:36:56 +0000 UTC

Had to be pink/mauve coloured, as red blood would have instantly made this R-rated. I agree it looks fake, but it was a great early use of realistic fluid modelling by ILM way back in 1991 - just prior to the VFX being perfected for the T1000 in Terminator 2

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 19:36:53 +0000 UTC

Lol. I know, I know. Im just being a real nitpicker. There’s always something. I still gave it an S because Im like A and J in that even with a top score, there always be something to critique. But its a brilliant film, and a perfect send-off. Its a critique that isn’t enough to ruin the film basically. That and making Valeris a bit too obvious she will be a villain would be 2 nitpicks. But when watching, I have the time of my life. Hope that clarifies a bit.

Chris S.

2025-01-03 19:32:40 +0000 UTC

1991 was a much more innocent time, when it comes to movie ratings...

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 19:32:07 +0000 UTC

Roddenberry wanted no conflicts between the core characters of TNG in season one, and how did that work out? As I typed under another take, one of the most mystifying things about 80s-90s TREK is how its creator seems to have either totally forgotten what made a good story a GOOD STORY, or --perhaps more likely-- was willing to sacrifice that in the name of his "vision for humanity." Most of the time when something is clunky, it's got Roddenberry's hand on or in it, with the excuse of "humanity has outgrown this in the 23rd (or 24th) century." Without getting spoiler-y, one thing that I like about later TREK --beginning, in fact, with DS9, and continuing through the two most recent live action TREK series-- is that the producers and writers aren't afraid to explore the difference and sometimes wide gulf between humanity's ASPIRATION to be more and their FAILURE to embody that aspiration.

Max Shenk

2025-01-03 19:31:38 +0000 UTC

Some of our best characters are those that are flawed. It is our nature.

beanKounter

2025-01-03 19:31:26 +0000 UTC

Torlek: "General, I mean no disrespect by this sir, but I have often wondered: why you quote the words of this 'Shakespeare'? A human poet? This has caused me some confusion..." Chang: "Yes yes, I can see how that would seem perplexing, however this is not such a mystery. Remember my first lesson to you: "Know thy enemy"? I have spent the latter half of my life studying human culture and their history... I encountered this Shakespeare early in these studies. He was one of their greatest warrior-poets, eloquently writing of the same virtues we strive for. A pity he was born to a people who can not... adequately appreciate the meaning of his work. He would have made such a fine Klingon..." Given Christopher Plummer is an accomplished thespian (as is David Warner and Patrick Stewart), this makes this speech so wonderfully meta 😆

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 19:24:07 +0000 UTC

I never said I was offended. I was critiquing the writing of established characters which I felt was inconsistent with how they had been portrayed for the previous 25 years. I was also enjoying hearing the well considered thoughts of others who have a different view.

Richard Stone

2025-01-03 19:23:02 +0000 UTC

One part of the movie that always caught my attention was when the Klingon cruiser was drifting away after it got shot. Chekov says "she's still listing", followed by Kirk's quick (and obviously ADR'd) line "she's spinning out of control!" As if they figured that Chekov's accent was unintelligible and no one knows what listing means. Another obvious bit of ADR was offscreen Chekov "we must respond personally, the universal translator would be recognized" to make it clear why they're using books. I'd bet these were the results of test screening feedback

JGoss

2025-01-03 19:21:48 +0000 UTC

He also wrote 2 uncredited. He had to quickly assemble a shooting script, incorporating his own stuff and pieces from the previous scripts (Genesis, David, Khan, Saavik). Because of the limited time and the WGA red tape, he had to go uncredited.

JGoss

2025-01-03 19:17:28 +0000 UTC

Kirk's racism is completely understandable. Years and years of war and dealing with them, with his son getting murdered by Klingons as the final straw in Star Trek III. It's actually not a prejudice without cause. And it certainly doesn't help that not once in ToS did Kirk ever meet a "good" Klingon.

SuicuneSol

2025-01-03 19:12:20 +0000 UTC

Second star to the right, and straight on til morning.

Ca$hWednesday

2025-01-03 19:09:07 +0000 UTC

Whoa, there. Simmer.

John M.

2025-01-03 19:07:36 +0000 UTC

Gee it sure sounds like you loved it...

Michael Metrick

2025-01-03 19:06:57 +0000 UTC

Just like John Williams "stole" from classical music....

Michael Metrick

2025-01-03 19:05:19 +0000 UTC

It was his ethics that motivated Spock to do what he did. I see no conflict.

Michael Metrick

2025-01-03 19:03:24 +0000 UTC

I saw this in the theater. No one knew who the traitor was. Glad your Esp was working for you that day...

Michael Metrick

2025-01-03 19:02:02 +0000 UTC

My favorite thing about this movie is that finally every cast member has something to do. Everyone plays at least some pivotal role in the story/solves a problem. As much as I love the main 3, TOS has always struggled to incorporate the supporting cast. They even put George Takei on his own ship so he didn't have to interact with Shatner (lol), but he still gets a fine send off and it's great seeing him as captain. Even the new characters like Valerus, Gorkon (the late great David Warner returns again), and General Chang are fantastic. P.S. Chang even got his own video game called Klingon Academy that has live action cutscenes with Christopher Plummer himself as your Instructor.

Deep Red

2025-01-03 19:01:34 +0000 UTC

That line is a most human, the most honest response. Kudos to the writers to make Kirk REAL.

Michael Metrick

2025-01-03 18:57:42 +0000 UTC

Enough with the politically correct crap. It's a movie about flawed characters for God's sake. Either suspend your personal judgments or don't watch it if your sensibilities are offended.

Michael Metrick

2025-01-03 18:55:33 +0000 UTC

"If the shoe fits..." I really enjoyed this one. I remember seeing it in theaters as a teenager and really loved all the aliens and action. The only real detractor for me was the fake looking blood. I think you guys will love this one and be shocked with the developments in the storyline. Particularly with what happens to Praxus, the excellent comedic parts, and Kirk's character growth. It has everything you could ask for in a Star Trek Movie. Now when is Josh going to tell us about his D&D adventures. The people must know!

Jason Shearer

2025-01-03 18:54:59 +0000 UTC

I still hope that somewhere in Kim Cattrall's house is an envelope where she kept the pictures she'd taken of herself on the Enterprise bridge, lounging in nothing but her Vulcan ears. Nimoy tore them all up when he discovered what was happening, fearing the reputational damage.

Ian Westcott

2025-01-03 18:53:37 +0000 UTC

My favorite movie of the Original Series. By far. ST2 is second.

Michael Metrick

2025-01-03 18:52:24 +0000 UTC

This is one of the things I was referring to in my take, when I said too many of the characters didn't ring true

Jeffrey

2025-01-03 18:51:06 +0000 UTC

For those wanting some extra Klingon ~looore~, check out the "Star Trek: Klingon Academy" video game from 2000, starring David Warner and Christopher Plummer reprising their roles as Gorkon and Chang: https://youtu.be/ZMz-GwQ6IDU?si=dJ4pVTcKkkewbk6G

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 18:49:08 +0000 UTC

"References" have replaced meaning and writing.

Ian Westcott

2025-01-03 18:44:45 +0000 UTC

Yeah, from Meyer: "Originally we had hoped to lure Kirstie Alley back to reprise her character as Saavik--her backstory from the other films would have made this especially poignant--but once again she declined. [...] As I have noted, in an ideal world Valeris should have been the stalwart Saavik, a character we had already come to love. And trust. This would have sharpened the pain of her betrayal, but absent Kirstie Alley, we decided it would be better to introduce a new character." According to Michael Okuda, Kim Cattrall had auditioned for Saavik in the previous movies, and when ST6 was still set to have Saavik, she refused the an offer because she didn't want to be the third actress playing the character, but then accepted when the new character was created.

Ian Westcott

2025-01-03 18:43:31 +0000 UTC

Awesome! I had exactly the same experience. Although in Austria, Europe.

Sam Langanke

2025-01-03 18:40:34 +0000 UTC

I thought "shut your mouth, Dragonheart had a great soundtrack. Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story is underrated too." And then I realized Cliff Eidelman and Randy Edelman were different people...

Ian Westcott

2025-01-03 18:37:57 +0000 UTC

Yes, exactly

Richard Stone

2025-01-03 18:37:54 +0000 UTC

"Then send in your own writers Goss!!" Kidding aside - fully agreed. Meyer directed 2 and wrote 4, so writing and directing 6 he smashed it out of the park

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 18:34:49 +0000 UTC

Man, that early-movie attack scene with the confusion, the firefight aboard the Klingon ship, that still gives me chills.

Ian Westcott

2025-01-03 18:34:05 +0000 UTC

Agreed. When I rewatch I mostly skip Rura Penthe. Iman sadly was wasted.

Sam Langanke

2025-01-03 18:33:27 +0000 UTC

Worf (TNG), Son of Mogh, Grandson of Worf (ST6) 😉

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 18:32:58 +0000 UTC

Not only Leonard Nimoy, but Gene Roddenberry strongly objected to a villain turn from Saavik, saying she wouldn't have done that. Nicholas Meyer said that since he was the one who created the character in the first place, he should be the one to decide whether she would betray the Federation. Unfortunately, having to make a new character the traitor really paints a huge arrow at her. I kindof don't like the idea of Saavik as traitor either, but the plot was written with that in mind and certainly wasn't so obvious as what we got.

Ian Westcott

2025-01-03 18:31:47 +0000 UTC

The even numberer TOS movies. X surely ist not one of the best.

Sam Langanke

2025-01-03 18:31:10 +0000 UTC

Except that is behavior here is opposite his behavior in the previous movie. He was turned into a bigot for plot reasons between 5 and 6

Jeffrey

2025-01-03 18:29:46 +0000 UTC

Indeed, he wasn't even saying Chang was acting like Hitler, but that Chang used expressions that Hitler had used as a pretext of conquest (and which Putin uses this very day..)

Ian Westcott

2025-01-03 18:27:36 +0000 UTC

Welcome aboard!

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 18:26:43 +0000 UTC

Kirk's changed over the years, people do that. His experiences with the Klingons in the TOS and ST3 have understandably soured him. Of course he's not acting like he was 30 years younger, plenty of young idealistic people eventually become old and rigid, informed by a lifetime of experience: of the barbaric Klingon people who had shown him time and again that they couldn't be trusted. That he is actually a good person is demonstrated by his ability to overcome what had happened to him and have a more open mind again. It would be out of character perhaps for TOS Kirk to have these feelings, but it's not out of character for the same person, after a lifetime of hardships, to become set in those ways.

Ian Westcott

2025-01-03 18:25:22 +0000 UTC

Nichelle Nichols hated the translation scene. It showed Uhura incompetent as a comunication officer for not speaking Klingon fluently. She is right but I still consider the scene as quite funny. I remember my Trek buddy at the time and I closed for weeks every second sentence to each other with 'Reen?'.

Sam Langanke

2025-01-03 18:24:48 +0000 UTC

S tier flick with one flaw: the dummy shot during the destruction of the prototype bird of prey scene. It's almost as bad as the Fifth Element dummy shots in the opera house. Did any SFX/effects end up popping out at either of you or even take you out of it?

tkitez (take it easy)

2025-01-03 18:21:34 +0000 UTC

As it happens, my specific comments above apply only to the Rura Penthe scenes, which are cringey.

Aramis Calcutt

2025-01-03 18:20:09 +0000 UTC

You’re right.

Aramis Calcutt

2025-01-03 18:17:26 +0000 UTC

Sam, so as not to spoil Josh and Alex, I'll just say rewatch the opening to Generations and listen carefully to what is said.

David Brown

2025-01-03 18:17:25 +0000 UTC

Yes that is what Kirk meant in the scene. But I think it was nice foreshadowing because there would be another Enterprise with another crew that would also boldly go where no one had gone before in TNG. So there is a double meaning.

James Hoffmann

2025-01-03 18:14:35 +0000 UTC

This is the send-off that the original cast deserved. Everything from beginning to end is wonderfully done, from the storytelling to the opportunity for all of the cast to have a moment to shine

Eric Singer

2025-01-03 18:10:27 +0000 UTC

Sounds like your describing Star Trek V, not Star Trek VI.

David Brown

2025-01-03 18:04:27 +0000 UTC

I have returned to give my take! This is up there with 2 and 4, rotating as my top pick depending on my mood. Time has really caught up to them now, but a great story and a proper goodbye. If I had to find one thing wrong, I would say structurally it is a murder mystery with only one suspect.

Ken R

2025-01-03 18:03:06 +0000 UTC

I can't help but feel you guys are going to take issue with Kirk's hateful viewpoint on Klingons (at first), thinking he's better than that or something. Well, he's not. We know Kirk's more of a soldier than a diplomat, prone to obsession, and even though he was told to stay out of his life and never talked about it, cared that he had a son out there. His hatred was ugly, but understandable.

James Bottas

2025-01-03 18:02:34 +0000 UTC

This had the potential to be another Superman IV: The Quest for Peace disaster - Paramount fired Harve Bennett, and wanted something in theaters for a 25th anniversary cash grab with a slashed budget and the script wasn't a priority. They even hired the same screenwriters as Superman IV. But then they wisely hired Nicholas Meyer who could maximize a small budget, and can quickly rewrite a superior script.

JGoss

2025-01-03 18:01:23 +0000 UTC

No. He ment HIS Enterprise at this point. The 1701-A. The A was new at the end of IV. Although we never saw it, it is likely the A got a new bridge crew after VI.

Sam Langanke

2025-01-03 17:59:13 +0000 UTC

In general I don’t think Star Trek works well in movie form. The ethos just doesn’t translate. And this is the worst example. Take YET ANOTHER story about a god-like being and say nothing really new about it while making a bunch of old people try to look like action heroes. I struggle to pay attention to this movie and there are so many just cringey moments.

Aramis Calcutt

2025-01-03 17:57:37 +0000 UTC

He didnt compared Chang to Hitler! He rightly stated that Chang quoted Hitler or at least said the very same thing.

Sam Langanke

2025-01-03 17:53:56 +0000 UTC

All true. But of course it also is the bridge to the Klingon-Federation relationship in TNG. Represented most obviously by Kirk's and McCoy's public defender Colonel Worf, who is supposed to be Lt. Worf's grandfather. At least Michael Dorn cornfirmed this was the intention of the filmmakers.

Sam Langanke

2025-01-03 17:49:32 +0000 UTC

Kirk compares Chang to Hitler, to his face. Hardly an example of professionalism. In the original series, he did treat Kang and Kor with respect while still acknowledging the threat they both posed. In Star Trek III, he still attempted to reason with Kruge even after David was killed and only "had enough" when Kruge tried to throw him off a cliff and kill them both. In the very last movie, Kirk expressed admiration and respect for the career of General Korrd and had drinks with him and Klaa at the end. I just don't buy this idea that Kirk has always hated Klingons, even after David's death. I don't think he'd ever behaved that way and I always believed him when he said that Starfleet force was used only as a last resort, something he directly contradicts here when he disputes Spock's statement that Starfleet's mission is one of peace. Maybe it's believable on a human level but I still find it depressing to think that Kirk would regress to this point. One of my favourite Kirk moments ever is when he tells Stiles in Balance of Terror that bigotry has no place on his bridge. I continue to find it disappointing that it would find a place on his bridge in time for his last movie.

Richard Stone

2025-01-03 17:29:57 +0000 UTC

not my favorite trek film, but i think its probably the best one. it really takes 'star trek is a place' to the level it should always have been, and will be moving forward

TivAcrid

2025-01-03 17:28:34 +0000 UTC

Keep in mind that Turnabout Intruder was not filmed as a finale.

Column Meanie

2025-01-03 17:23:54 +0000 UTC

This is my favourite Star Trek Movie, it has it all - a great plot, excellent acting from the crew and Shakespearian actors, a proper budget for visual effects and probably the best score in all of ST. Only the 2nd and 8th movies come close IMO. Signed up for Patreon as I couldn’t wait for this one…

Worf and Riker Ride Again

2025-01-03 17:20:22 +0000 UTC

Trust me: Nimoy had the most influence of any of the folks behind the scenes.

Column Meanie

2025-01-03 17:16:59 +0000 UTC

I’m in complete agreement with this assessment.

Column Meanie

2025-01-03 17:12:51 +0000 UTC

This is by far my favorite Star Trek movie. I love every minute from beginning to end. It is a perfect send off for the original group of actors that made us love Star Trek

harrypothead42024

2025-01-03 17:10:28 +0000 UTC

Kirk is a human with human emotions. All Kirk knew of the Klingons were as adversaries. He then had his son murdered by them to cap it all off. I don't think this is out of character at all. When Kirk does meet the Klingon delegation, he still treats it with professionalism.

Ca$hWednesday

2025-01-03 17:08:17 +0000 UTC

The real star of this movie is George Takei! Captain Sulu is amazing (especially the opening scene) - wish we'd got to see more adventures with him on the Excelsior. The rest is fine. B+

Alan F

2025-01-03 17:03:25 +0000 UTC

Its too obvious Valeris is a villain. Cattrall plays her emotionally….”A lie?” “An error”. She smiles and trots off. Huh? She wasn’t right for the role, or made dumb choices. And the conversation in Spock’s quarters gives her intentions away. Instead, she just should have inquired how it changes now that he’s leaving, and what his future steps are.

Chris S.

2025-01-03 17:02:16 +0000 UTC

There are wonderful analogies with the real 20th century as it wound down in parallel with the fictional 23rd century. Praxis represents Chernobyl. The failure of the Klingon empire represents the collapse of the Soviet Union. The peace process with the Klingons of course represents the end of the Cold War. It's very Star Trek in its optimism, and extremely Star Trek in its insistence on drawing clear parallels with the real world.

Aaron Wells

2025-01-03 17:00:39 +0000 UTC

I like the movie

Phil Ken Sebben

2025-01-03 16:59:37 +0000 UTC

I actually liked the character growth. Kirk spent a lifetime dealing with Klingons... And finally they killed his son and he logically had that resentment. And the whole thing comes full circle over the course of the movie. For narrative reasons, it's part of his Arc for the film. I don't think characters need to be completely rigid. They're allowed to change and grow and even regress. That's what makes them interesting.

Aaron Wells

2025-01-03 16:57:58 +0000 UTC

I wonder why he didn’t use Gayne Rescher again? A good DOP is versatile, and will follow the director’s instruction, although Rescher’s “style” would still be present. Hiro Narita did great, but I would have loved to have Rescher back

Chris S.

2025-01-03 16:53:37 +0000 UTC

He did a fan film episode alongside Grace Lee Whitney for Star Trek: New Voyages called "World Enough and Time" - available on YouTube. Worth a watch 👍🏼

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 16:53:21 +0000 UTC

I hate seeing our formally noble characters turned into racists (with the notable exception of Executive Producer Spock). This is so far away from the way they were portrayed in the original series. Kirk’s attitude at the beginning of the movie is entirely out of character for him. For all of the movie’s strengths, I actually prefer Star Trek V because that at least understood the characters.

Richard Stone

2025-01-03 16:52:43 +0000 UTC

MCU Endgame stole the cast signing the frame at the end from Star Trek VI. Your whole lives have been a lie.

EnigmaticPenguin

2025-01-03 16:51:55 +0000 UTC

"1) Valeris was originally written to be Saavik, but Leonard Nimoy did not want to ruin her character with that." That's not what happened, Alley declined because she was doing Cheers, Meyer didn't want Curtis and Cattrall didn't want to be the third Saavik. Nimoy said in an autobiography there were second thoughts about making Saavik the villain but not that he was completely against it and it wasn't his choice to make anyway.

Phillip Grischa

2025-01-03 16:48:46 +0000 UTC

The sorrow regret, and shaking in Spock’s voice as he says “she does not know” hits me hard. He doesn’t show emotion. Rarely at least. But at that point, it hurt him so badly to have to do that, it killed him.

Chris S.

2025-01-03 16:47:19 +0000 UTC

Kirks second most iconic line in this movie "let them die!" Pretty much a "shoot them all!" To me:-) they can add that to their meme roster.

Sebastian_Frodo

2025-01-03 16:45:40 +0000 UTC

Sulu's "Fly her apart, then!" as he hauls ass to help his friends is his defining moment and one of my favorite moments in the whole franchise.

James Bottas

2025-01-03 16:42:37 +0000 UTC

"Nimoy should’ve used his EP credit and put his foot down on that one." I doubt he had that much cloud, the actual procurers on a movie have the "producer" credit, Nimoy wasn't one of them.

Phillip Grischa

2025-01-03 16:38:39 +0000 UTC

I thought that might have something to do with it. Im pretty sure that got retconned a lot.

Keith S

2025-01-03 16:35:51 +0000 UTC

Every star trek movie is different and that one is no exeption this time being a conspirecy/political/... I frankly dont know how that genre is called. 😉 S-tier for sure!

Sebastian_Frodo

2025-01-03 16:35:46 +0000 UTC

I love Kirk mentioning how the Enterprise will soon be in the care of another crew. It is a wonderful way to mention TNG. The ending is such a perfect way to pass the baton from TOS to TNG. it is bitter sweet but so hopeful.

James Hoffmann

2025-01-03 16:35:11 +0000 UTC

"Takei pushed heavily to get fan support for a Sulu spin-off. Not sure why Paramount wasn't interested." Because they'd seen him act. He's not a strong actor and I doubt he could have carried a show.

Phillip Grischa

2025-01-03 16:31:19 +0000 UTC

The dots are joining together in THE LORE!

LonghillAndy

2025-01-03 16:30:54 +0000 UTC

This is probably my favorite of the Star Trek Movies, I'm sure the others have said all the fun facts so I'll just say it's a great send-off and a great "end of the cold war" allegory. Shame we never got a show for Captain Sulu.

Jarod Cain

2025-01-03 16:30:23 +0000 UTC

The mindmeld between Spock and Valeris was brutal, but what surprised me was the use of both hands when Spock was trying to find out where the conference was. That was intense, but unnecessary as Spock could have told Captain Kirk to contact the Excelsior and ask Captain Sulu instead of subjecting Valeris to that final part of the meld.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-03 16:29:33 +0000 UTC

And Christopher Plummer (General Chang) narrating

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 16:28:38 +0000 UTC

How'd you guys like the cast's signatures used for the end credits? Markus and Mcfeely, the screenwriters of Avengers: Endgame which did the same thing with it's credits, confirmed that they 100% lifted it from Star Trek 6.

James Bottas

2025-01-03 16:28:24 +0000 UTC

I love the dark tone. It doesn't take away from the TOS comradery. What a wonderful sendoff for the OG crew.

Nicholas Jennings

2025-01-03 16:28:01 +0000 UTC

Yeah, The Romulans wanted revenge for the Klingons betrayal of their agreement that when one either the Romulans or the Klingon empire were drawn into war with the federation the other would join ag UFP as well. They signed that treaty with the romulans receiving D7 cruisers from the Klingons and the klingons getting access to cloaking technology seen in TOS.

Sebastian_Frodo

2025-01-03 16:27:49 +0000 UTC

I have always had issues with this movie. Too many of the characters didn't ring true to me. There were major flaws in the plot. The constant quotes from other places got so tedious. Still, there was enough I enjoyed to give it a B. I put 1,2, and 4 above it

Jeffrey

2025-01-03 16:27:21 +0000 UTC

A big ugly spider like thing that nobody ever noticed? What kinds of things can you smuggle in to a Klingon show trial and prison?

Paul Hess

2025-01-03 16:25:04 +0000 UTC

I have used that quote an untold number of times over the past thirty-three years.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-03 16:23:31 +0000 UTC

Had to be pink, as red blood spray from being shot would have mandated this film get an R rating. Pink blood - no R rating 😉

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 16:23:13 +0000 UTC

"Is it possible that we two, you and I, have grown so old and so inflexible that we have outlived our usefulness?" Agreed that was a great line, but his follow on “would that constitute a joke?” always baffled me and spoiled it a bit.

Paul Hess

2025-01-03 16:22:05 +0000 UTC

So a few things. 1) Valeris was originally written to be Saavik, but Leonard Nimoy did not want to ruin her character with that. 2) This marks the return of ILM to the Star Trek Franchise. I hope you enjoyed the major bump in effects quality from Star Trek V. 3) This Movie ties in with TNG's Redemption 2 parter which you just watched. Spock mentions forcing Kirk to make peace with the Kingons as his reason for not involving anyone else in his reunification efforts. The Khitomer Conference, and the Khitomer Accords set up the franchise for the future TNG exists in. An alliance between the Federation and Klingon Empire. Overall, this movie does a ton of world building for TNG and beyond. The entire fabric of Next Generation's political setting is set up here. The Khitomer Accords are one of the foundational pieces of lore in the franchise. Also relevant, Worf's family was killed during a Romulan attack on Camp Khitomer.

ijp8834

2025-01-03 16:20:42 +0000 UTC

Despite a few flaws this movie is still an S-tier for me and it's the second best of the TOS movies after TWOK.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-03 16:20:29 +0000 UTC

An amazing way to end the TOS era movies. I get emotional seeing the signatures at the end. Although, I always had to lower the volume during the Valeris mindmeld when I was young.... parents thought it could be porn. Actress was practicing for the later role in sex and the city.

SonicHiggs

2025-01-03 16:19:53 +0000 UTC

By far my favorite Star Trek film of the bunch. Captures everything I love about the characters with tons of TNG influence thematically. I do think that when Kirk fights himself he kinda turns into Tim Allen tho

Noah Fawkes

2025-01-03 16:18:52 +0000 UTC

How did you like Michael Dorn's performance in the trial scene, and what did you think of the idea of Worf having a grandfather named Worf?

Anthony Goodwin

2025-01-03 16:18:44 +0000 UTC

It’s fine, it just doesn’t sound like Star Trek.

Column Meanie

2025-01-03 16:15:43 +0000 UTC

So is star wars. That doesn't make it a bad score.

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-03 16:13:04 +0000 UTC

Colonel Worf is the father of Mogh who is the father of Worf from TNG.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-01-03 16:11:47 +0000 UTC

Nichelle absolutely hated this scene. She felt it made her character look incompetent because she just couldn’t accept that Uhura would not know the language of their enemy. I completely agree. A cheap laugh.

Column Meanie

2025-01-03 16:05:20 +0000 UTC

Great movie! A suspenseful mystery plot, great acting, stellar effects, fabulous music, a dignified sendoff for the TOS crew, and even establishes the landscape the TNG era is in. Only a couple notable criticisms: 1. The Valeris reveal. Was just a bit too obvious and telegraphed, unfortunately. Not sure how I'd feel if this was actually Saavik as originally intended, but it sure would have been a far bigger shock. 2. The end when they beam down to the conference after the shootout. It's extremely rushed, sloppy, and one might even say Scooby-Do-ish silly. It takes what was otherwise a very serious film and taints it just a bit with a dash of misplaced goof. For me, these missteps push the movie down from an S to an A-. Still a great film!

Lovok

2025-01-03 16:04:24 +0000 UTC

This.

Column Meanie

2025-01-03 16:03:06 +0000 UTC

I would have been okay with this, but only if Saavik had died trying to redeem herself.

Column Meanie

2025-01-03 16:02:25 +0000 UTC

Alley wouldn’t do it and sadly Meyer refused to even consider Robin Curtis, which is a huge shame. Nimoy should’ve used his EP credit and put his foot down on that one.

Column Meanie

2025-01-03 16:00:03 +0000 UTC

Nice to see the USS Excelsior finally show up as a “hero” ship after getting clowned on in Star Trek 3. Interesting that after the embarrassing failure that was the experimental trans-warp drive, it’s clearly been abandoned. Mr Scott was totally right when he said “If my grandmother had wheels she’d be a wagon”.

Mister Hope

2025-01-03 15:58:49 +0000 UTC

I’ll never forget it. 16 year-old me was there with friends opening night. Loved it immensely (I just don’t feel it aged well)

Column Meanie

2025-01-03 15:58:36 +0000 UTC

The score is overrated. They only went with Eidelman because Horner refused to do any more Star Trek and Goldsmith wasn’t available. I think they are both missed here. This score, while having an impressive sound at times, is repetitive and a blatant ripoff of Holst’s “The Planets”.

Column Meanie

2025-01-03 15:57:45 +0000 UTC

Sadly because he just isn’t that strong of an actor. I could see it work if the show focused on his subordinates with occasional appearances by the captain (much like West Wing) but alas it wasnt meant to be.

Column Meanie

2025-01-03 15:55:59 +0000 UTC

I think it was Meyer who also wasn't a fan of Robin Curtis's Saavik. Kirstie Alley was unavailable and they didn't want to have to cast yet another actor to play the role so they pivoted.

Ca$hWednesday

2025-01-03 15:54:55 +0000 UTC

It’s cool, but it’s not a tone I want for a final movie with our TOS cast.

Column Meanie

2025-01-03 15:54:52 +0000 UTC

It’s a wonderful send off to the OG crew. It’s one of those movies that crosses the genres and really can be enjoyed by any lover of movies. Mystery murder plot. And its relevance to real-world events. The Klingons were always an analogy for the Soviets. This was representative of the fall of old rivalries, end of the Cold War, and repercussions of lax safety leading to the Chernobyl disaster. My wife loves this movie and it’s one that I probably have memorized from all the times I have watched it. It doesn’t age. I hope you see the original version that was in theaters and VHS. There are three little scenes they cut but, to me, those scenes add even more to the film, even though one was kind of a Scooby Doo scene. I hope you love it as much as so many of us do.

JP RFL

2025-01-03 15:54:29 +0000 UTC

Shatner had a hard time filming that scene for the same reasons. He performed it by showing instant regret, but they edited out his regret.

Column Meanie

2025-01-03 15:53:21 +0000 UTC

Spock assaults Valeris on the bridge of the Enterprise. He forcibly mind melds with her and tears through her mind to get to the answers they desperately need. Even Spock is willing to compromise his ethics when the stakes are high enough. Star Trek VI is the perfect series finale for TOS. Everyone gets their time to shine, Kirk and Spock face their shortcomings and learn important lessons and the Enterprise flies off into the sunset at the end. First Trek film I saw in a theater when I was 11. Still a contender for Best Trek Film Overall!

Alexander McKechnie

2025-01-03 15:52:37 +0000 UTC

Nah, it’s fine, but a blatant ripoff of Holst’s “The Planets”.

Column Meanie

2025-01-03 15:52:14 +0000 UTC

I know this is long, and I tried to condense it! Hoping some of it is read. There’s a lot to praise about this film, but I’ll leave that to others since it is widely considered a favorite. What has always bothered me about TUC is that its low budget really shows here. The blatant redress of TNG sets (specifically Ten Forward as the president’s office and the observation lounge as the dining hall) really stand out as cost-savings measures. The lack of on-location shooting really shows here too. While they did film 1 scene with Shatner and Kelley at Bronson Canyon (the night time scenes for Rura Penthe) and they sent a B-team up to Alaska to film their stand-ins on a glacier, the rest of the film is shot on sets and it just feels closed off. Say what you will about Shatner’s direction, but at least he had the balls to spend half of Trek 5 filming outdoors! It’s a great movie, but I just wish they would have chosen a different, more upbeat story for the final outing of the TOS cast. This movie makes me miss the fun, the adventure, and the optimism. If they had been able to go out with a film like The Voyage Home, I’d say that would be a perfect ending. Alas, they’re going out with a movie that excuses racism of our heroes, and with a score that takes itself way too seriously (I miss Goldsmith and Horner). It’s a great film, but it’s not perfect and there are better Trek movies. Giving this one an A for “almost S”

Column Meanie

2025-01-03 15:51:47 +0000 UTC

The score in this movie is without rival, at least from the previous movies. Eidelman is somewhat of a nobody, but knocks it out of the park from the start. I know you guys don't really notice scores, but I'd recommend listening to the end credits if you can.

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-03 15:47:02 +0000 UTC

Gene Roddenberry, saw a rough cut right before he died. Unfortunately, he did not like it. Too dark, and bigoted characters. Not what he wanted. But then again, neither was WOK, and they’re both brilliant.

Chris S.

2025-01-03 15:44:09 +0000 UTC

But it was probably realistic for a lot of people thinking about Russians...

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-03 15:43:31 +0000 UTC

As I posted above…That opening overture. So dark and brooding. Like the opening of Stravinsky’s “Firebird”. Then gradually crescendos into a powerful, blasting march, dark and ominous, and finally hanging onto that last chord of the french horns and snares….and then….BOOM! Praxis. The opening titles give me goosebumps. Sets the mood and lets you know this is a dark, serious movie that will be a real adventure with an ominous atmosphere. So well done. I listened to it twice in my car last night on loud volume, and I pictured myself on opening night watching those credits on screen, anticipating. The Praxis blast is so sudden, you almost jump.

Chris S.

2025-01-03 15:41:34 +0000 UTC

Then all he did afterwards was free willy sequels.

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-03 15:40:53 +0000 UTC

This is a movie about seeing past old grudges and a reminder that many people benefit from stoking conflict. The story was especially pertinent at the fall of the Soviet Union, but the lesson is a timeless one.

Evan Guthrie

2025-01-03 15:40:29 +0000 UTC

Me either. The possibilities were endless there. Plus that era is pretty blank. Even give it 3 seasons. It was a mistake.

Chris S.

2025-01-03 15:40:21 +0000 UTC

That opening overture. So dark and brooding. Like the opening of Stravinsky’s “Firebird”. Then gradually crescendos into a powerful, blasting march, dark and ominous, and finally hanging onto that last chord of the french horns and snares….and then….BOOM! Praxis. The opening titles give me goosebumps. Sets the mood and lets you know this is a dark, serious movie that will be a real adventure with an ominous atmosphere. So well done. I listened to it twice in my car last night on loud volume, and I pictured myself on opening night watching those credits on screen, anticipating. The Praxis blast is so sudden, you almost jump.

Chris S.

2025-01-03 15:37:25 +0000 UTC

Same for me I’ll never forget it, took the afternoon off work specifically for that first showing (in the UK).

Paul Rymer

2025-01-03 15:30:48 +0000 UTC

I met him in ‘92 when he was lobbying for it, he looked great then, definitely young enough and with the drive to lead a series, on a high from the positive reception that ST VI had received. Sadly the way things went I just don’t think it was a priority for the show-runners who were still focusing on exploring the TNG era. I do feel that they strung him along a little with hope as he was a star when it came to promotion (going to Japan for example where he was a big deal).

Paul Rymer

2025-01-03 15:29:43 +0000 UTC

While not on television, George Takei did star in a trilogy of full-cast audio dramas as Captain of the Excelsior. They are still available on iTunes & other platforms and use binaural sound mixes, so are best experienced with headphones. The story titles are: Transformations, Cacophony, and Envoy.

Matt Everkoul

2025-01-03 15:24:24 +0000 UTC

Damn I absolutely love that idea. Get this guy in the writer's room!

Darin Starr

2025-01-03 15:23:10 +0000 UTC

I’m biggest issue was I didn’t believe Kirk would’ve said, and meant, “Let them die!”. I imagined he had just said it in anger and then immediately regretted it and took it back. It wasn’t until later that I learned William Shatner felt the same way and put in a regretful expression, like “I didn’t really mean that. Forget I said it.” They ended up editing it out, but you can kinda still see it when it cuts back to Kirk.

startrekiborg

2025-01-03 15:21:43 +0000 UTC

The overture, the opening, Sulu as captain, I could go on. I love Kim Cattrall as Valeris though I know some don't. Incredible pacing. By far for me the best part of the movie is how every actor just absolutely wears their character like an old pair of shoes. Everyone is so comfortable in their roles and the camaraderie is just unreal.

Darin Starr

2025-01-03 15:19:07 +0000 UTC

Would have been better and she would have had a better motive given her experiences in 3, but Gene objected saying Saavik had gained “beloved status among fans.” (Personally I think he was just trying to give Meyer a hard time because he didn’t like Meyer’s more military take on the movies.)

tyranusfan

2025-01-03 15:19:01 +0000 UTC

"S" automatically. I mean even the teaser you watched was "S" tier. So creative using the Enterprise as a screen with scenes projected onto it.

Michael Nemo

2025-01-03 15:18:12 +0000 UTC

Takei pushed heavily to get fan support for a Sulu spin-off. Not sure why Paramount wasn't interested.

Michael Nemo

2025-01-03 15:17:31 +0000 UTC

My favorite TOS movie. Best looking, amazing sound mixing (got an Oscar nomination for it), best effects and by far my favorite music score.

tyranusfan

2025-01-03 15:14:39 +0000 UTC

Great film. I don't have a favourite TOS movie but this is surely one of the top contenders, and along with 1 & 2 it's on my most re-watched list. It's wonderful to the see the cast all getting moments to contribute and shine, the story is solid, and the stakes believable. The end hits me in the feels every damned time. The space scene direction is top notch too. This is the movie that makes me really appreciate just how big the Enterprise actually is, not to mention Excelsior. It's like I've never been this close... Easy S tier.

Gruzz

2025-01-03 15:11:58 +0000 UTC

Epic comment, 100%

Zack

2025-01-03 15:09:54 +0000 UTC

I've never thought about that, I just assumed that was common gear for Starfleet ships because they're all explorers. I too agree that it's better that Spock and Uhura came up with the idea versus Sulu's ship

Zack

2025-01-03 15:08:46 +0000 UTC

One of the main characters of this film that rarely gets talked about is the musical score. This guy scored his ass off. The opening is an homage to Mars the Bringer of War and it's brilliant. The whole score is brilliant. This composer came out of nowhere and just knocked it out of the park.

Michael Nemo

2025-01-03 15:08:21 +0000 UTC

On opening day in the theater this film was amazing. The audience was cheering and very much clapping with each signature showing up on screen. It could not have been a more vibrant crowd that made most of the experience feel like alive theater play. Very ENERGIZING to say the least.

Michael Nemo

2025-01-03 15:07:14 +0000 UTC

This... >> Myers say it was straight up that Roddenberry forbade a liked Starfleet character from being a traitor. It continually amazes me that by ST VI / TNG, Roddenberry, who CREATED the franchise, seemed to have lost his sense of what made STORIES work. A lot of fans would argue with me, and I'll try to state this in as un-spoiler a way as possible, but later in TREK, when they made a major character a mutineer, said character's growth from that beginning was one of the best ideas they ever came up with.

Max Shenk

2025-01-03 15:06:28 +0000 UTC

I think this is my favorite

Zack

2025-01-03 15:05:08 +0000 UTC

After this film sat with me for years, its my opinion that they actually went overboard with the Shakespeare quotes. I watched and was like “ok, we get it. They love Shakespeare”. Chang didn’t have to quote it in practically every scene. Did he REALLY have to spin in his chair like a little kid yelling quotes during the battle? Less is always more. Count the times they quote. Its a bit too much! Still an “S”!

Chris S.

2025-01-03 15:04:43 +0000 UTC

A Tier. I feel like TOS grew up a bit for this movie to match the more sophisticated tone of TNG. Having our characters of 25 years confront their long held prejudices and admit they were wrong was a great way to close this chapter of the franchise. I did however always feel it was a big miss not having Saavik be the the one who is lured in to turning on Starfleet instead of creating Velaris. Giving her that arc all the way from ST II and maybe finding more redemption at the end than Velaris would have been more impactful to me. It could have shown younger generations are just as susceptible to the older ones in succumbing to biggotry.

EnigmaticPenguin

2025-01-03 15:03:56 +0000 UTC

Just think how cringily fan servicey that "link" would have been done nowadays. Have we all forgotten how to write? Or forgotten the words of one of the TNG producers to a friend of mine who submitted a script: "Fans have the worst ideas."

Max Shenk

2025-01-03 15:02:44 +0000 UTC

I'm torn between II and VI as my favorite, with VIII (if you continue counting) right behind them.

Max Shenk

2025-01-03 15:01:30 +0000 UTC

I thought about this over the years, and I think a good deal of fandom would be disappointed, even angry, that they made Saavik a villain. Story-wise it makes sense nonetheless.

Chris S.

2025-01-03 14:59:31 +0000 UTC

Yes, Nick Meyer said it’s Worf’s grandfather. So Mogh is his son. Timeline-wise it works. They wanted ways to link to TNG, and they did a great job without going overboard. They did their homework which I respect.

Chris S.

2025-01-03 14:57:51 +0000 UTC

I’ve seen that explanation before, but I’m sure I’ve read Myers say it was straight up that Roddenberry forbade a liked Starfleet character from being a traitor. Which pissed him off since he created the character. Regardless, an already good movie would have been even better with Saavik, for sure. Would have hid in plain sight.

John M.

2025-01-03 14:53:54 +0000 UTC

Honestly, if they wanted a different character, wouldn’t it have made more sense to just simply use a different name?

Hidden Ruu

2025-01-03 14:53:17 +0000 UTC

Once I had learned it was originally going to be Saavik and they backed down from it, it really disappointed me. It being Saavik that betrays them would have had a much greater impact on the entire film franchise... And it would have been character growth... Character growth for a Vulcan! The motivations you mentioned could easily have been woven in. I love Kim Cattrel's performance but this should have been Saavik.

THE LORE!!!

2025-01-03 14:49:36 +0000 UTC

That I hadn't heard. Curtis would've been fine probably, though. But I agree having Alley play such a dramatic role while she was doing so well with comedy on a major TV series would be weird. Still, casting issues aside, it would make more sense than having Spock be mentor to someone we never met and expect some emotional connection for us. I do think Cattrall does a good job though.

Joe Concepts

2025-01-03 14:45:36 +0000 UTC

That was because Shatner complained Sulu shouldn’t be bailing out Kirk. I think in this case Shatner was right.

John M.

2025-01-03 14:45:01 +0000 UTC

S Tier , second best movie after Khan

General Trelane

2025-01-03 14:44:00 +0000 UTC

Nick Meyer wasn't a fan of Robin Curtis' portrayal (neither was I, tbh) and Kirstie Alley was busy playing Rebecca Howe on Cheers (and not for nothing but she won an Emmy that year for that role, so she was where she needed to be). Other fun fact -- Kim Cattrall was also in consideration for the role Kirstie Alley took in Cheers. Seemed to be on her heels for a while there...

Michael Parnell

2025-01-03 14:40:44 +0000 UTC

you mean worf the grandfather of worf with a different forehead? worf is 5 years younger then riker.

Redjac

2025-01-03 14:38:46 +0000 UTC

Supposedly it's Worf's grandfather.

Max Shenk

2025-01-03 14:36:51 +0000 UTC

Wow. I never heard that, but doing a character transposition in my head, imagining Valeris is actually Saavik, it makes so many anachronistic plot and character elements make sense.

Max Shenk

2025-01-03 14:36:15 +0000 UTC

Proof that only evil assholes, quote and love Shakespeare. To bad TNG didn't learn that

Prof Moff

2025-01-03 14:34:07 +0000 UTC

"I'd give real money if he'd shut up..."

Max Shenk

2025-01-03 14:34:06 +0000 UTC

I found this to be kind of funny to see Worf in this movie. Does a great job being an attorney. But his presence does make me wonder how long Klingons live, since there is quite a bit of the difference between when Kirk was around and when Picard is around. Overall, an enjoyable movie! Definitely an A rating in my book.

Hidden Ruu

2025-01-03 14:33:21 +0000 UTC

I saw this one at the theater too, on the last day of its first run, in a multiplex in Georgetown DC where it ran in one of the side theaters on a screen that was literally no bigger than a lot of large screen LED TVs in some guys' mancaves are. My rule for movie theater seat selection follows the Siskel and Ebert rule-- middle of the theater, width of the screen back-- and going by that, I was in the first row, neck craned looking UP the whole time. It was still awesome.

Max Shenk

2025-01-03 14:33:15 +0000 UTC

One effect from this film re-dressing the existing TNG sets... we lost the cool display of previous ships called Enterprise from the TNG Observation Lounge/Briefing Room, as the set was used as the formal dining hall for the Enterprise-A. That's why the gold ships on the wall disappeared during Season 5 of TNG.

Matt Everkoul

2025-01-03 14:31:38 +0000 UTC

Someone else mentioned Valeris originally was going to be Saavik. I really wish they had gone with that edgy choice, because it would have made so much impact to what was going on. You wouldn't suspect her, Spock's anger about it would make more sense, and her having witnessed Klingons murdering David gives her motivation. And it would bring everything back to Star Trek II. Maybe it would've been controversial, but it would be the more interesting choice.

Joe Concepts

2025-01-03 14:31:05 +0000 UTC

Corrected, thanks!

Matt Everkoul

2025-01-03 14:29:12 +0000 UTC

The movie has one of the biggest mistakes in Star Trek. The equipment used to track gaseous anomalies was on Sulu's ship, not the Enterprise. So the resolution of modding the photon torpedo doesn't really work.

Gaming the Systems

2025-01-03 14:29:11 +0000 UTC

Nothing in the movie (or anywhere on screen, I believe) tells us that Colonel Worf is Worf's grandfather, but publicity materials at the time said so. So, if you think about it, our TNG Worf is technically "Worf, Son of Mogh, Son of Worf."

Joe Concepts

2025-01-03 14:26:09 +0000 UTC

S tier, easily. Not just one of my fave TREK movies (I'm torn between this and WRATH OF KHAN as my favorite TOS cast movie) but one of my top ten of all time period. I love both ST II and ST VI because the theme of both movies, really, resonates as I get older: AGING, and how does someone who's "past their prime" continue to contribute and make a difference? It seems to be an amusing subplot in WRATH OF KHAN-- Kirk has to wear reading glasses, hahaha-- but there's no missing it in UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY. Spock states that theme explicitly, for those who need it explicitly stated, in one of my five favorite Spock lines EVER: "Is it possible that we two, you and I, have grown so old and so inflexible that we have outlived our usefulness?" The thing I love about UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY is that it easily depicts what FINAL FRONTIER tried to do, but which seemed forced: the easy knowing familial cameraderie between all of the characters. The scene where they all leave the stateroom dinner horrified at how it went... you can tell these characters have a history and love each other. Spock committed the terrible faux pas that sets the story in motion, but of course Kirk forgives him. McCoy to Kirk: "What IS it with you?" Even Sulu, in his absence, feels like he's in that familial cocoon. That sense of cameraderie is all we wanted from a final TOS Trek movie... and they did it without it feeling "fan servicey" in the least. Wow. Just generally speaking: this movie really shows the difference between "fan service" and "doing what fans don't know they really want." Example: I don't think any fan would have written in Sulu in command of his own ship, but it's exactly what the fans wanted. It's still a tossup for me between 2 and 6 being best ever, but can you see why fans say that the even numbered TREK movies are the best ones?

Max Shenk

2025-01-03 14:26:02 +0000 UTC

They absolutely inspired Marvel. Kevin Feige confirmed Star Trek was an influence on him the book “MCU” by Joanna Robinson, David Gonzales & Gavin Edwards

Matthew McKinnon-Gray

2025-01-03 14:24:13 +0000 UTC

I think the first 45 minutes or so of this movie are perfect and the final battle is great. Everything during the Rura Penthe section is meh except for the Bones-Kirk heart to heart, but overall it’s excellent. Grade: A

John M.

2025-01-03 14:22:02 +0000 UTC

Used a lot of redressed sets from TNG in this one including one actor. That's okay, it worked. I think that's what changed the back wall of the briefing room fom TNG 5th season on. No more enterprise half modles against a wood grained wall. All in all though, this movie is a great farewell to the original cast. One more trivial observation, Klingon blood is pink?

Keith S

2025-01-03 14:20:52 +0000 UTC

I’m fully expecting a “Holy sh!t, is that Janice?”

James H

2025-01-03 14:19:54 +0000 UTC

For me, this is now the best Trek movie with the TOS crew, I watched it again in anticipation of your review and then I watched the home video / directors cut (which only has 2 different scenes plus a few alternate shots) and loved it even more. I suggest you watch the home video / directors cut around the end of season 5 TNG, definitely before DS9 starts. It’ll not be a chore I promise! What gave me a real buzz then and now is the scenes with the Excelsior. Really pleased for George and Grace (the actors not the whales) got to have a showcase appearance. Uhura also gives the suggestion that saves both ships, what’s a shame is that originally those lines were for Sulu and Rand to say - as the Excelsior in the opening log is researching gaseous anomalies. Never mind it was Uhura’s gain after being made to look a bit silly with the Klingon bit.

Paul Rymer

2025-01-03 14:19:27 +0000 UTC

There once was a woman from Venus, who's body was shaped like ah... nevermind. It was better in the original Klingon.

MrTickleTrunk

2025-01-03 14:19:06 +0000 UTC

Nic Meyer stated recently that he feels this movie has aged badly because relations between the US and Russia have gotten worse rather than better, and the Admiral Cartwrights and General Changs of the world were smarter than he gave them credit for. Sorry Nic, but you're wrong on this one: it's reality that's aged badly. Star Trek VI is timeless.

bab

2025-01-03 14:17:49 +0000 UTC

Agreed. This is tied with ST4 as my fave TOS movie. I love them both for different reasons.

Ca$hWednesday

2025-01-03 14:17:29 +0000 UTC

Here's a joke, the Klingon Bird of Prey attacking Enterprise and Excelsior is a.....(Drum roll)...........John Cena class. Because you couldn't see it 🤔😂

Christopher Dorn

2025-01-03 14:13:40 +0000 UTC

Praxis is more like Chernobyl than the Berlin Wall.

TomEmilioDavies

2025-01-03 14:09:38 +0000 UTC

The viridium patch is a bit of a plot contrivance - what the hell was in there that could be detected TWO SECTORS AWAY? Radiation, much? 😂 Other than that, a strong final entry to the TOS movies with a banging score🖖

Jon1701

2025-01-03 14:09:20 +0000 UTC

I always likened Praxis to Chernobyl

Ee'char

2025-01-03 14:08:28 +0000 UTC

I love this movie. Actors are on point, writing is great (except one thing I’ll mention) and the SCORE sets a tone of mystery for this film unparalleled in Trek in my opinion. Beautiful “ride off into the sunset”, as it were. One thing I didn’t love is the scene of Uhura trying to speak Klingon. I realize it was for comedy, but I think it should have been Chekov struggling to speak while Uhura was either off shift or somewhere else. She can then come in clutch to drop some fluent Klingon to save the situation. Would have given Nichelle a badass moment celebrating her character for the last 25 years. All in all, I hope you enjoyed this send off for one of the most influential crews in entertainment history 🖖🏼

Andrew F.

2025-01-03 14:07:49 +0000 UTC

Christopher Plummer absolutely hamming it up as a Shakesphere quoting Klingon is maybe my favourite thing in all of Star Trek. Also, very few lines in Star Trek go as hard as "FLY HER APART THEN". Yeah, this is definetly my favourte of the TOS cast movies.

TomEmilioDavies

2025-01-03 14:07:26 +0000 UTC

Star Trek VI was a fitting end for TOS and the final scene was perfection. It was a bit too militaristic for Trek but given the subject matter understandable

Scarpad’s Domain

2025-01-03 14:07:03 +0000 UTC

The very first trek movie I saw at the cinema, always loved this one, the score, the look of the film and that closing scene. Compare and contrast the visual effects here to ST5 and its night and day Industrial light and magic sure got mileage out of that praxis explosion effect…

Darren Seal

2025-01-03 14:06:27 +0000 UTC

A fun who done it! This keeps you on your toes, and it is still a good rewatch. S- tier for sure

Troy

2025-01-03 14:06:15 +0000 UTC

It's "The Hunt For Red October... IN SPAAAAAAAACE!" This film ranks right up there with Wrath Of Khan for me... not just because it's the same director, but also because it's a proper send-off for the Original crew.

Darin Wagner

2025-01-03 14:01:52 +0000 UTC

A great final TOS movie. Through the grudge he Kirk had for the Klingons seems to be a departure from the Kirk that broke bread with Klingons in Star Trek 5. At a convention I got a hold of a copy of the script and then Valeris was Savvik. Nick Mayer wasted to get Kirstie Alley back but she was doing Cheers, others were upset that Savvik because a turncoat so in the end Spock had yet another young female protégé. Despite some fans having problems with Nick Mayer's urge to 20'th centuryize Enterprise operations (Uhura is pouring through old books to try to speak Klingon and having a mess hall rather than food synthesizers) this is definitely a loved movie. And finally, I bet George Lucas was watching when Praxis exploded with that shock wave ring, because he decided to retroactively put that force ring effect in his special edition Star Wars films.

Mike Rogers

2025-01-03 14:00:56 +0000 UTC

I am emotional with you both coming to this point. The original series says goodbye.....and Star Trek is never quite the same again. I don't think that is a spoiler, as much as an inevitability. I can't say enough great things about this movie, as it is everything we all deserve in the last TOS entry. Acting, writing, direction.....superb. So good, it made Paramount reconsider their decision to retire them.

Dale Gonyea

2025-01-03 13:57:23 +0000 UTC

Thank goodness they decided to do one more movie after ST5. Much more satisfying goodbye to this ensemble. I wonder if the classy end credits with the cast autographs inspired Marvel to do it for Avengers Endgame? Shout out to David Warner and Christopher Plummer. Their voices / performances are usually the first things that come to my mind when I think about this movie.

Forbidden Donut

2025-01-03 13:56:54 +0000 UTC

Curious if you guys picked up on some of the political allegories: Praxis exploding (Chernobyl), fall of the Berlin Wall (neutral zone), the old Klingon empire being Soviets, Gorkon = Gorbachev, etc.

Matt Everkoul

2025-01-03 13:55:53 +0000 UTC

Nicolas Meyer delivers again! The end of the cold war allegory, with the neutral zone as the Berlin wall, Praxis as Chernobyl and the Klingons one last time being the stand in for the Russians. The original cast's last time all together, it's the best conclusion to their combined stories, and way better than the Original Series finale of The Turnabout Intruder. "Second star to the right and straight on 'till morning," Kirk concludes feeling young and quoting Peter Pan as they fly off into the sunset one last time.

Gregory

2025-01-03 13:51:55 +0000 UTC

Utter pinnacle of Trek Movies for me. Everyone gets great character scenes and truly memorable lines (Uhura and Chekhov are my faves). Did you guys feel like this was an appropriate send-off for each cast member? Was Worf's Lawyer-Grandfather an exciting cameo for you?

Ross Townsend

2025-01-03 13:50:19 +0000 UTC

Great way to finish off the adventures of the TOS crew and tie TOS and TNG together. I like how Khitomer, the place where the peace conference is held is the same place where Worf's parents were killed in a Romulan attack 50 years later and Michael Dorn's cameo as an ancestor of Worf. Also have a good guest appearance from supermodel Iman as the shapeshifter. She later went on to marry David Bowie. And of course there is Christopher Plummer as Chang.

Dion James Pitman

2025-01-03 13:50:06 +0000 UTC

It's a tough call between Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country, which is better. Maybe it's just the bitter-sweet ending of it all.

mark miller

2025-01-03 13:50:04 +0000 UTC

I have come to appreciate this one more as the years have gone by. There are some complexities and subtleties to this one that didn't really land for me the first time I saw it. Also, I was so deep into TNG back then that I just don't think I cared that much about seeing new adventures for this crew anymore. In hindsight, it's a decent send-off for the original crew (and I love the signatures at the end).

David Wayne Fox

2025-01-03 13:49:44 +0000 UTC

Yes that's one of the only sort of major issues I have with this movie. It's still my favourite entry though

ShazD

2025-01-03 13:49:18 +0000 UTC

"If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it..." Prophetic, both for Star Trek and the world we live in. My first Star Trek theatre movie when I was 8, and my fave of the OG cast. Context, continuity, and a bridge forward to the next gen while acknowledging the past. What are you guys now expecting from ST7..?

The Ninth Doctor

2025-01-03 13:49:16 +0000 UTC

Well, my friends. Here we are. The end of an era. At age four I was introduced to Star Trek with the Special Longer VHS tape of The Motion Picture, and just a few short years later I had digested all of TOS and the TOS films. Now, I have done the same with you guys once again, two and half decades later. It's been an amazing journey. As one era comes to an end, another begins. It's been a Hell of a ride, gentlemen. Live Long, and Propser. \\//,

Steven Johnson

2025-01-03 13:49:04 +0000 UTC

I wish the character had been Saavik. I think it is too obvious from the beginning that it was her.

David Wayne Fox

2025-01-03 13:48:18 +0000 UTC

A great movie, honestly. Fun plot, memorable characters and Christopher Plummer absolutely devouring the scenery make it one of my favourite of the TOS cast movies. Plus, we get to see new places we haven't before!

Mara

2025-01-03 13:47:16 +0000 UTC

William Shatner was Christopher Plummer's understudy when he was performing Shakespeare on stage at Stratford. Plummer was excited and jumped at the opportunity to share the screen with Shatner. The character of Valeris was initially supposed to be Saavik, which would have made the twist much more interesting and less obvious.

Ca$hWednesday

2025-01-03 13:46:12 +0000 UTC

PATRON TAKES - Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country

Comments

It was in “the making of” documentary/commentary on the first dvd release. The death bed comment was metaphorical. They mentioned he was starting to not not feel well when he screened the film, and he never made it to release.

what time does st6 drop on patreon?

the beef between Shatner and Takei escalated during this movie because in the script sulu was the one who figured out how to use the torpedo to target the klingon ship... but Shatner demanded that Kirk had to be the one to figure it out and had it changed, robbing sulu of a big moment in the movie.

A proper send off for the TOS crew. First star to the right and straight on till morning.

Never noticed it. It's probably good enough for most people I think.

Rura Penthe does get a little Last-Jedi-casino-ish but it's not egregious.

I just assumed all of starfleet was on a big gaseous anomaly scanning spree.

"Assault" is a charged word. Interrogated, perhaps.

At best, you can say Kirk enjoyed a good bout with a Klingon, but they hardly have reason not to resent them.

I hope you realize they don't read takes this unbelievably long, right?

What's a 'dummy shot'?

SHOOT HIM

To be fair, Star Trek got new music quite often and it was mostly all spectacular.

Apparently the special effects guys loved it too...

Glad they didn't kling to that name.

At long last, you'll see why everyone was screaming at you to watch Star Trek VI before TNG, as well as why you were absolutely right not to do so. (Sorry for my long absences, guys. I've had this Patron Take composed in my head for at least a year, though.)

I’ve always thought that the comment that Uhura made about having all that equipment for cataloging gaseous anomalies was a jab back at Star Trek five and the big vacuous gas bag of crap that it was

“That wasn’t his knee, not every species keeps its genitals in the same place, captain“ Another one of those lines that just stands out in the entire franchise Delivered by IMAN, or Martiel, or as you might know her, supermodel, and the wife of the late singer David Bowie

speaking of novelisations, some MJF's novelisations of TNG are the best for any interested. He literally finds a tiny side hook of an episode and creates a second episode in the novel. An away mission mentioned but not seen? You get that full away mission with full backstory of all extras.

They briefly referred to it as "Kling" in TNG's Heart of Glory, but I think everyone silently agreed that it sounded stupid and never said that again.

After Cliff Eidelman finished the score for VI, he oversaw the the "Star Trek Astral Symphony" CD/cassette release, in which he picked out his favorite pieces from the first five movies.

I would agree. If Savik were in the film instead of Valaris, it would have made for an overall better film. And would have made the betrayal hurt more. It would have also given her character an actual arc. Even if it were a decline.

I think we hit a record with Patron Takes and comments for an upcoming reaction! Over 300! Wow!

YES! And another favorite actor both guys know and love so well................ ML

Another line spoken by DeForest Kelley came during the court trial: Chang asks what "Stand Down" means, and McCoy replies "Retire," to which Chang then said, simply, "Ah." That was in the theatrical release and is now no longer found on any version I've seen since then.

Yeah that's true, but it's pretty close. Later when I heard an orchestra play it I was like "hey I've heard this before". I love the arrangement that they use for ST6 though. Not like any other trek scores and adds "weight" to the movie. The entire score is fantastic in my opinion.

🖖🏼

Yeah. That's a great piece of reasoning on the wrong ship. But, I just figure all starships have equipment to investigate gaseous anomalies, in case you run into one whilst exploring.

That would be the 1/537 kit. The Polar Lights 1/350 scale is over two foot long assembled.

Ah maybe, TBH I have no idea - all I remember was that I watched and loved ST6 when I was around 7/8 and then sometime after I had an model kit for what I thought was the Kronos 1. I (badly) glued it together but never painted it, I remember it being a blueish-green plastic

Great take - quick check though, although it was inspired heavily by Holst, it wasnt the same as "Mars" from the Planets suite. Heavily influenced, though 👍🏼

This is my favorite of the bunch. Closely followed by III. They feel the most like TOS.

I saw it in the theater at 10. I still remember a old (old to me...he was probably my age now) Trekkie laugh at that line. I didn't really get it and didn't get it at the time. Lol

Good movie overall. Not one of my absolute favorites but I do enjoy it. They could have done a lot worse for a send off.

Different franchises

Those are all the same tune. Star Trek 1 vs 2 vs 4 vs 6, totally different

Every series with John Williams?

This movie, while it has a few hiccups, is a very good send off for the original crew. Certainly better than the previous one. The villain is engaging, and see Sulu the way you do is so cool!!

This movie just gives me good feelings all over. Christopher Plummer and David Warner are fabulous! Fun Fact: Valeris was originally written to be Saavik but the creators decided that Saavik would never behave that way.

I am here for Michael Dorn reactions in open credits !!!

Another example how Trek broadens your horizon. Even regarding American presidential history: 'Only Nixon could go to China." At this point in my life I associated Nixon only with Watergate. But if it is ancient Vulcan wisdom said by Spock I had to look it up.

I'm getting that take from comments like this... >> a lot of people have issue with the racism the main cast are displaying and this... >> I hate seeing our formally noble characters turned into racists. ...to cite two.

Uhhhh... STAR WARS? INDIANA JONES? It doesn't have to be "best" or "better than others" in order to work the way it should and still be great in and of itself.

To me, it depends on if you view this as an isolated work or as part of an established universe. Are the characters’ actions in this movie believable and understandable within the context of the story? Yes. Are they consistent with the previous 25 years of storytelling? No.

With 'Qo'noS' or 'Kronos' we get a name for the Klingon planet at last. I still don't know why it took so long. I always found it odd calling it only 'Klingon homeworld" to this point. Even in 'Redemption".

Love the channel guys, even if my opinion differs sometimes, Iove your honesty, don't ever change! Undiscovered Country is my favourite Star Trek film. Fun fact, the signing off at the end of Avengers Endgame was inspired by the end of this film!

especially if you rewatch it in a mirror

Really great send off for the TOS crew. Great story, great fun, great film.

Thx:-)

Great take 👌

Great take

"Are you my mummy?" 🚑

My headcanon is that Valeris IS Saavik. That decision elevates the film and the greater canon so anyone arguing otherwise does so from a fool's position.

Great take, and I can believe it...

And it's such a well delivered line

👍

I love the Bird of Prey exploding at the end. I can watch that explosion on repeat. What a memorable special effect.

You mean when Kirk gets in that fight and gets his ass kicked and then basically kicks the guy in the balls?

Yes, but despite all he's been through, Kirk is wise enough to know it was the wrong thing to say (publicly), and that he knows he said it because of his emotions.

1 made more money than any Trek film until Trek 2009 came out.

My feeling about it has always been good but not great.

The 1/350 Kronos 1 was released as a kit in 2023. The 1/350 K'Tinga was released in 2018. Are you thinking of the 1/537 K'tinga that was released a couple of years after The Motion Picture?

Oh, that is terrible. I kinda love it.

I can see both sides. I Kirk is still angry and hurt over the loss of David, and reacted emotionally. I think if instead of an immediate regret, he'd paused, thought about it, and reacted in regret, I think it would have worked for both points.

Dude, we get it, no need to be so verbose.

Name me another franchise that had multiple banger scores.

Perhaps you will review "To Kill A Mockingbird" from 1962 one day, and you can contrast why it was such a big deal to have Brock Peters, of all actors, refer to Klingons as "alien trash" in the 23rd century.

Probably the best TOS film, not to take anything away from ST: WoK but for me this just pips it. Christophe Plummer is great and I always get a bit emosh when they sign off at the end.

My dad got me the model kit for the Kronos 1, I was a little too young at the time but I still thought it looked awesome

This movie has a special place in my heart as it was the first I saw in a movie theater. Terrific acting, great story, and great send off to the crew that had such a tremendous impact on us!

Hamlet has been translated into Klingon. Or more accurately, restored to the original Klingon. https://youtu.be/RF0k4qV1I1Y?si=qTya4U-BBjJ8WdUO

Agreed....that kind of mindset can indeed happen when a someones son or daughter child is killed.

“We volunteered?!”

Hot take

ST6 is my second favorite TOS movie and a solid send off to the original crew

To me this isn't just the best Star Trek film, it's one of my top ten favourite movies ever made. I think there are so many fantastic moments in this, even just small things, such as a moment of dialogue. I love that the co-stars in the crew each get a lot to do. I also love the guest stars.

No where is it documented that Gene liked this movie. Quite the opposite (and he wasn’t on his death bed. He was very much up and around right up until he collapsed at his doctor’s office).

Knowing Shatner, it was either a really subtle bit of acting he did, or it will have always been on purpose if you ask him on Twitter.