UNCUT - Redemption (TNG S4E26) | Star Trek Journey 207
Added 2024-11-17 13:49:51 +0000 UTCDISCUSSION CONTAINS A LARGE AMOUNT OF SPECULATION FOR SEASON 5. WE DO NOT WANT TO KNOW ANYTHING INCLUDING WHAT WE ARE RIGHT OR WRONG ABOUT. PLEASE NO SPOILERS FOR SEASON 5 OR BEYOND
Comments
Lmao I think I somehow missed the skit at the end recreating the Shane McMahon WCW purchase . Incredible. You even did the Vince McMahon ear tug. Bravo
Wrestling With Gaming
2025-09-01 19:47:52 +0000 UTCThe speculating is a part of the fun of watching the show
Nick
2024-12-09 00:52:24 +0000 UTCSeason 5 is gonna blow your fucking minds
Lyric
2024-11-30 20:56:15 +0000 UTCI love it when y'all speculate, for the record.
SageGreenGoat
2024-11-28 18:21:02 +0000 UTCGreat theme song for season 5. As a reminder for the TNG season 6 theme song, you may want to include references in the lyrics to DS9 as well, since you’ll be watching both ✨
Matt Everkoul
2024-11-26 15:48:22 +0000 UTCAt this point, the show was undergoing its transition from episodic to proto-serialistic storytelling. From traditional episode-of-the-week to the precursor to modern ongoing storytelling.
jeff hughes
2024-11-25 05:19:11 +0000 UTCLove the speculation
Eric Singer
2024-11-23 22:16:00 +0000 UTCAgreed
Sebastian_Frodo
2024-11-20 19:50:30 +0000 UTCRIP Tony Todd. This is a legendary and foundational episode. Easy S+. This is like the core DNA of TNG.
Justin
2024-11-20 01:33:06 +0000 UTCMy TV is set to "filmmaker mode" which makes the picture a lot less vibrant and vivid which is probably why I couldn't make it out.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-19 16:42:07 +0000 UTCThat's it -- you've finally done it....yes a take so controversial that I had to join :) In all seriousness, this episode is a solid A -- I understand your concerns about the lack of a narrative thread about Worf wanting to leave, but it's actually woven in to many of the storylines. Worf is the outsider -- the man who is neither fully Klingon (in the eyes of many of his people and in many ways himself) and not fully human. The loss of his honor weighs heavily upon him, we see this in numerous episodes where other Klingons and other people from within starfleet (The drumhead) either refuse to associate with him, or have immediate suspicions. As a Klingon might say -- it is a terrible burden to bear. Then you have Gowron, just as skeptical, but he restores Worf's honor, and by proxy his brother can now come out of the shadows (RIP Tony Todd) -- it is a very big deal, and Worf is now torn between his loyalty to the man who restored his honor (and his homeworld and as an extension his ethos of being Klingon) and Starfleet. It is not unreasonable for him to choose "The Way Of the Warrior". I can't say more without spoiling certain things -- but Worf's honor, the events of this episode and certain other things to come, will echo far in to the future of Star Trek as a whole.....
Matthew Ganz
2024-11-19 15:17:25 +0000 UTCI guess it sounds like we agree! haha
Jovet
2024-11-19 05:40:27 +0000 UTC@Pokeysaurus How do you go about making a bigger deal about it? Tell Worf NO? The show is only an hour long. And it's already a 2-parter.
Jovet
2024-11-19 05:27:30 +0000 UTCIt's not nearly as fun when people who know what's coming blurt out what's coming.
Jovet
2024-11-19 05:21:03 +0000 UTCThe appearance of any character should generally not be considered a shock. Q appears in Q episodes. That is not a big deal. A "dead crewmate" appearing out of the shadows...that's a big deal.
Jovet
2024-11-19 05:20:36 +0000 UTCThis is coming probably from the perspective of an immigrant, but leaving the federation because your people and your planet are in trouble makes perfect sense, especially cause it feels like HE FEELS like he has to do MORE than the rest.
Sixto
2024-11-19 04:09:52 +0000 UTCThis is a pretty Solid A++ but i'd give it an S
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-11-19 02:47:49 +0000 UTCB+? UNSUBSCRIBE! But really, I though I'd be an A at least. Maybe my perspective is skewed because I usually watch it together with part 2. I never really thought about how I would rate part 1 by itself.
Tim b
2024-11-19 02:29:09 +0000 UTCI think Worf left to fight with the Klingons because if they lose the civil war it would be very bad for the Federation. Worf is trying to protect the Federation and the Klingons from the consequences of the Duras family winning
E Parhas
2024-11-19 02:29:01 +0000 UTCHere's the thing about the reveals and putting names in credits: They were perfectly aware that withholding the credit from the opening allowed the surprise reveal of a guest star. But the media culture of the time had different ideas about what guest star appearances are "worth" that kind of reveal. In this case, Denise Crosby's appearance is obviously meant, on every level, to be a twist. Whereas the idea that "the fact that this episode has Q in it" could be considered a twist would never really have occurred to anyone back then.
Steven Linden
2024-11-19 02:04:59 +0000 UTCYour speculations are entertaining and interesting! It’s fun to see what people who don’t know what’s coming *think* is coming.
Michael Collins
2024-11-19 01:40:49 +0000 UTC@ Jovet if it was intentional on the director/producers' part that Worf really didnt contemplate it until then, they would have been better served by making a bigger deal about it instead of him almost casually walking out.
Pokeysaurus
2024-11-18 23:33:14 +0000 UTCWhen wondering about their ratings, it helps to keep in mind that they're rating the canned episode, not the script.
Pokeysaurus
2024-11-18 23:30:44 +0000 UTCIf you look really closely, you can actually see her face in the dark at the 20 minute mark. :P When I saw Josh leaning in and squinting, I thought he might see it and spoil it for himself. In fact, I was almost certain he did and kept it to himself.
SuicuneSol
2024-11-18 23:12:07 +0000 UTCGoron is from Legend of Zelda
Lwaxana’s Poolboy
2024-11-18 20:34:40 +0000 UTCThe thing to remember is that for those of us that saw the show originally, the episode would end with those silly previews of the next episode that you show in your reactions. It would often give away any surprise guest star as a selling point (like Sarek). So, putting them in credits was par for the course.
Mike Rogers
2024-11-18 19:59:31 +0000 UTC“Gow-(rhymes with “cow”)-ron”, not “Go-ron”.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2024-11-18 19:02:49 +0000 UTCI really like the speculation on what you think will happen, keep it up!
Murtaugh
2024-11-18 18:05:30 +0000 UTCWar games! Who gets the Halloway and who gets the Enterprise?!
Ross Townsend
2024-11-18 17:12:52 +0000 UTCI don't like the melodrama in the Klingon episodes 👿
T’Pynyn of Vulcan
2024-11-18 16:47:52 +0000 UTCIf I recall correctly, this story was originally supposed to end the third season, but then it got pushed back and BOBWs happened in its place. I think? It's been a long time since I looked into the background on this. Worf does look great in the Klingon uniform, we haven't seen him don that since Emissary. I think the second half of this two parter is actually stronger than the first half. At least, in parts. There's some good stuf fhere, but there's also some really good stuff in the second part.
Steven Johnson
2024-11-18 15:40:04 +0000 UTCThere were a number of ideas like that throughout this era (through DS9 and Voyager), but my question is always "What's the point?" Like a pitch of that sort basically comes down to being novel, and that's it. Once the novelty of "it's about Klingons" wears off, it's not really going to have the staying power of the main series. I'm one of those big Klingon fans, but even I think they need to be taken in smaller bursts.
Steven Johnson
2024-11-18 15:38:17 +0000 UTCIt’s fun to watch you guys cook up theories. Even if I know where you’re close or where you’re not it’s fun to see the viewpoint of people who don’t know the outcomes.
Strife
2024-11-18 14:57:27 +0000 UTCTotally agree with you. They're not sci-fi fans for sure and I'm exactly the opposite. I love sci-fi but usually fast forward the drama. So these reactions kinda helped me to look at certain scenes from a different perspective.
valen
2024-11-18 14:31:14 +0000 UTCRight so you see there was no regular consideration of keeping surprises back from the audience. I think I said it before, in the late 1960s, Hitchcock had to run ads begging people not to reveal the ending of “Psycho.” This cultural idea of preserving surprises developed slowly over time.
Aramis Calcutt
2024-11-18 13:46:51 +0000 UTCAgree with all of this! lol @ Shatner
Shanelle
2024-11-18 13:38:38 +0000 UTCTeam Alex vs Team Nick in… WAR GAMES!!!
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-18 13:28:28 +0000 UTCWas going to call you a P’takh but the you got Gowron right in the last sentence :)
AzoriusMage
2024-11-18 13:23:13 +0000 UTCHell in a Cell match at Survivor Series for Josh's friendship! Make it so!
KevinH
2024-11-18 13:10:17 +0000 UTCPart 1 is the definition of a B tier episode for me. Personally don't understand why so many people think it's S tier. With that being said I do think part 2 is quite good and has a satisfying conclusion to the story.
Spencer Loften
2024-11-18 13:09:09 +0000 UTCSynth-pop beats truly filled the atmosphere that day.
Jack Molitor
2024-11-18 12:05:48 +0000 UTCYeah to be honest the takes for this episode might be the ones I think they missed the most on. 🤷♂️
Greg Quinn
2024-11-18 10:45:03 +0000 UTCI can never wrap my head around the fact that all the actors are now old.... And...not to be morbid...but before too long we will start losing main cast.... Eventually the only Trek actor left will be Shatner...lol
Greg Quinn
2024-11-18 10:40:06 +0000 UTCAgreed. But...I think some of that may be that we know where the story is going. Which in this case for me maybe makes it better.
Greg Quinn
2024-11-18 10:37:18 +0000 UTCYeah. I also thought of Iron Maiden
Sam Langanke
2024-11-18 09:32:33 +0000 UTCThis is one that I really didn't think THAT much of (somewhere in the B tier) when I saw it, but I think it's grown on me over time. Pretty decent WTF ending, a lot of good conversations here, and the actresses playing Lursa and B'tor are delightfully over the top and (surprise) not stupidly written. It's still not quite Best of Both Worlds for me, but I've often found Klingon episodes a little on the tiresome side. This is a good one. Good job hiding Denise Crosby's credit.
Ian Westcott
2024-11-18 09:28:18 +0000 UTCI read their response like "this is so ridiculous I can't believe what I'm watching here".... To each their own.
William McRae
2024-11-18 08:32:56 +0000 UTCYeah, they laughed like they had just been Rick-rolled!
Jovet
2024-11-18 08:30:32 +0000 UTCI remember not being that invested in it upon first viewing. It was just another "boring Klingon episode," akin to watching barbaric ants fight about leadership of the colony. But as I've gotten older, I've realized how well this was written, and I even like Part 2 more!
Jovet
2024-11-18 08:29:15 +0000 UTCWell, I did enjoy that part. I thought I had missed something else.
Jovet
2024-11-18 08:26:17 +0000 UTC@valen I've somewhat attributed their reactions to the fact that Josh and Alex are not science fiction fans. They enjoy "pro wrestling" so they're obviously into drama and soap operas—I can't think of a TNG episode with this level of drama in it, which isn't a 1-parter. The writing is sublime. I've also had 30+ years to think about it, too.
Jovet
2024-11-18 08:22:39 +0000 UTC*“and androids have a way of showing up when you least expect them.” 😏
Jovet
2024-11-18 08:18:16 +0000 UTC@Target Audiene But McCoy was also not a pivotal plot character, either. He was just fan service.
Jovet
2024-11-18 08:15:27 +0000 UTC@Target Audience I thought the S3→S4 break was the last big break we were gonna have? That's why you started queuing up the episodes faster.
Jovet
2024-11-18 08:13:24 +0000 UTCIt would not be a conspiracy if everyone knows about it. Federation aid to Gowron would not be in secret.
Jovet
2024-11-18 08:11:18 +0000 UTCTHE COUNCIL KNEW???????
Jovet
2024-11-18 08:09:11 +0000 UTC@Paul Rymer Previously-recorded footage, though. That really isn't the same.
Jovet
2024-11-18 08:07:22 +0000 UTCThat is a point!
Jovet
2024-11-18 08:03:14 +0000 UTCThis story (both episodes) are top 10 of the series for me. It's a definite A. S grades are just too precious and rare to hand out except for the few elite-level episodes. Like, top 3 or top 5 in the series.
Jovet
2024-11-18 08:02:19 +0000 UTCI believe this story is masterfully written. The Klingon civil war is a nail-biter. Worf leaving the series is a shocker. Crosby returning is a jaw-dropper.
Jovet
2024-11-18 08:00:21 +0000 UTCIt was like watching a show about this wonderful future where the stone-age, barbaric neighbors constantly try to kill each other.
Jovet
2024-11-18 07:56:49 +0000 UTCspeculate away it's fun to see how much you can predict :)
Todd Pritchett
2024-11-18 07:55:38 +0000 UTCWell I say that because Josh and Alex initial response was surprise followed immediately by laughter (as in WTF is this all about disbelief kind of laughter,).
William McRae
2024-11-18 07:47:22 +0000 UTCThat reaction was worth a month subscription! 😅
Linda Thackeray
2024-11-18 07:45:29 +0000 UTCthe summer this came out we all were speculating what was up with Crosby.
David Marcoot
2024-11-18 05:12:14 +0000 UTCI was so thinking you were going to guess who the actress was from the voice, back in the other episode and it this one. Lol
Eric Wilson
2024-11-18 04:39:20 +0000 UTCI used to love the Klingon eps! But I got sick of them.. they just became like a gang of ornery hair metal enthusiasts. Worf is the best! All the rest kinda suck.
Philbot
2024-11-18 04:23:52 +0000 UTCLove the speculation, it’s fun to hear where you guys think it’s going.
Nate Schultz
2024-11-18 03:19:50 +0000 UTCAs they got into developing Worf's character/ back-story, they made hima purist/ idealist about Klingon Culture. He was upset with K'Ehylar for not raising Alexander with that same love of their people. Taking an active part in defending the Klingon Empire against those who dishonored his family makes sense to his idealistic view of Klingons.
Nathan Cline
2024-11-18 03:07:48 +0000 UTCGotta say, gonna miss last seasons theme. DIdn't like this one initially, but ya had me by the end. Well done. (the wife likes this one) Not so sure the captain was talking about the earl grey with the excellent T (nudge nudge wink wink)
Jason Lallathin
2024-11-18 03:00:57 +0000 UTCI like the speculation.
Regan
2024-11-18 02:17:13 +0000 UTCMust admit, I thought this would be an easy S or at least A+ for you guys given how invested in the Worf/klingon storyline you have been. Obviously B+ is still pretty good. But like others have said, A big part of why it remains an S for me is knowing the conclusion. As far as Worf leaving, I think it's pretty justified. He owes Gowron for restoring his family honor, and he owes his brother for fighting along side him(even if he was obligated with Worf being his older brother). But moreover, a civil war that will determine the fate of the klingon people is going on, and he feels the need to do his part. The alternative is to stay on the Enterprise to do......what, day to day security stuff that any number of officers could do? There's no pressing need for Worf in particular to stay at that post, Picard will find another chief of security. The Klingon civil war is an existential crisis for his people. And finally, Worf made a very valid point that the Federation would be in deep shit if the Klingons and Romulans teamed up against them. He literally BEGGED Picard to help Gowron, which had to leave a very bitter taste in his mouth. But the prime directive being what it is, Picard just can't do it(and also, it's not his call, the admirals will ultimately decide). So it's quite accurate to say Worf is also doing this as a way to protect the Federation from the reality of a Duras led Klingon Empire turning on the Federation, something he can't do in a Starfleet uniform. As for the Denise reveal, I can't claim to know what all the rules are around credits. I know it was another actress in the shadows in The Mind's Eye and Crosby's voice was added in. As for here, maybe there's a certain amount of screen time or dialogue before they're required to give a credit(though to be fair, even more minor roles have at least got a into the end credits). Maybe omitting the credit can only be done with the consent of the actor and most just don't agree to that, but Crosby played ball. At any rate, it was cool that they preserved the surprise, but that won't necessarily be the norm from her on out. Stargate SG-1 I believe was better at shuffling surprise returning guest stars to the end credits. Also like how during the ceremony to restore Worf's family honor, he has to grab a knife and slice the shit out of his hand. That's metal as fuck and 100% klingon. I agree that Worf's departure was somewhat lacking in impact with barely any goodbyes exchanged(though the crew lined up in the corridor was a nice touch), but I'd also say that's very in keeping with Worf's character. But yes a few words from the other bridge crew would have helped the scene. I do like that Riker's voice sounds like it's cracking just a little bit when he says "dismissed". Given how close Worf and Riker have been to be throughout the series, it tracks that Worf leaving would hit Riker especially hard. Great finale, and you can definitely tell they were trying to recapture some of that cliffhanger hype they had with BOBW. Looking forward to S5.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-11-18 02:17:05 +0000 UTCIt wasn't necessarily "great" but spending time speculating on who/what/why Denise Crosby was there at the end was fun to watch.
THE LORE!!!
2024-11-18 02:16:05 +0000 UTCI agree with them. I’m also caught between B and A. I would give an A simply because Worf! and Klingons! We love them. Their episodes are given so much love and attention over the course of TNG. But this episode in particular is very plot heavy. A lot of talking. I feel it serves mostly to put things in place. To establish characters and events. For me it deserves a high rating mostly for its significance rather than the scenes themselves. The Exception of course is Worf’s grand exit at the end. That is always heartwarming to see.
Shanelle
2024-11-18 01:52:05 +0000 UTCSad that Tony Todd died a few weeks ago.
Scott Reeves
2024-11-18 01:49:21 +0000 UTCWhat are windows for if not the view😉
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-11-18 01:46:22 +0000 UTCThose EYES!
T’Pynyn of Vulcan
2024-11-18 01:43:20 +0000 UTCno, but they help spice things up every now and then
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-11-18 01:42:55 +0000 UTCA?... B+!?... Ya'll are trippin.
Michael Mannisto
2024-11-18 01:38:28 +0000 UTC"The recurring "downplay loved episodes, love hated episodes" I can totally see as being intentional to try to grow notoriety through drama. " Bro, I wasn't gonna say anything but this is exactly how I feel things are happening.. not that I care though. I'm enjoying the reactions and they can do whatever they want with it. Admittedly, it could also be us knowing all the rest of the journey so we might have a different perspective.
valen
2024-11-18 01:30:09 +0000 UTCAnd aside from that, Worf was making a good point that if Gowron loses there would be a Romulan/Klingon alliance against the Federation which would be really bad. So from Worf's perspective, not only is he repaying Gowron for restoring his family name and doing everything he can to make sure his brother survives the war, but he's also protecting the federation in a way he can't as a starfleet officer. I'd say he's pretty justified.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-11-18 01:29:34 +0000 UTCOh man, I'm genuinely shocked neither of you gave it an S. Loved the entire episode and then the Crosby reveal at the end was the icing on the cake for me. It'll be interesting to see if seeing part 2 will make you think more or less of this one. I could see it either way.
Wrestling With Gaming
2024-11-18 01:24:09 +0000 UTCSo much fun!!! I love experiencing the reveals vicariously through you two. I also love the speculation. I missed part 1 when it was originally shown on TV but I saw part 2 so I was deprived of the surprise. Great job!
T’Pynyn of Vulcan
2024-11-18 01:23:04 +0000 UTCThe “Stares in Ah Jaysus” always make me laugh
tyranusfan
2024-11-18 01:05:37 +0000 UTCI remember when I first saw the reveal of Denise Crosby as a Romulan it was literally the first time I said “oh s**t” while watching Star Trek. Then it dawned on me that she was the one in the shadows in “The Mind’s Eye”. When I watched the rerun of it I watched the end credits to see if she got credited and she didn’t. They set that up in advance so no one would be the wiser until the end of the finale.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2024-11-18 00:57:13 +0000 UTCI'm not much of a fan of Lower Decks, I don't even really want to say why for spoilers but, I'll just say I vastly prefer Prodigy over it.
Paul
2024-11-18 00:54:42 +0000 UTCI'm more of an A-tier for this episode on its own too. I think two-parters are hard to rate on their own. Can't wait for next season!
Paul
2024-11-18 00:51:55 +0000 UTCIf I could pin a comment on Patreon it would be this one
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-18 00:30:30 +0000 UTC“Stares disapproving in Movar” should be a new meme
Column Meanie
2024-11-18 00:01:31 +0000 UTC"The Best of Both Worlds" was resolved tidily in Part 2, but the resolution did not quite live up to the suspense built up in Part 1. It was quite the cliffhanger, so it is actually kind-of amazing they wrote themselves out to that corner to begin with. So, I can't criticize it that strongly. Two excellent episodes, just as these here are.
Jovet
2024-11-17 23:58:42 +0000 UTCIt can be difficult to judge any multi-part episodes on their own, but this one was superbly written and executed.
Jovet
2024-11-17 23:50:54 +0000 UTCThe best episode of TNG is yet to come.
Jovet
2024-11-17 23:47:49 +0000 UTCThat end song!!!!!! That was great :)
PIG
2024-11-17 23:46:30 +0000 UTCI don't believe Worf had even contemplated leaving/resigning until Picard demanded he return to duty so the ship could leave with him. Picard granted him leave (and everyone access to the Kithomer files) so as to allow Worf to clear his family name. That was accomplished, so it was reasonable for Picard to demand he return to duty.
Jovet
2024-11-17 23:45:21 +0000 UTCyeah as i said he really wanted to conspire with the federation
Dark Kronis
2024-11-17 23:41:06 +0000 UTCAlex: "Oh please credit credit credit credit credit..." Show: "Oh no no no no no! Not this time."
Gruzz
2024-11-17 23:37:57 +0000 UTCSeason 4. Perhaps part of why it was so good is because it is the ONLY season of TNG that stands on its own, with no mitigating factors or other Trek media it needs to share with. S1: Needing to prove itself, new, cast, new ship, new production S2: Star Trek V premieres during, a major cast change, a writer's strike. S3: Widely considered "Where the show got good" so it has that baggage, plus behind the scenes shake ups and additions. S5: Star Trek VI premieres, Gene Dies, spin-offs are being considered. S6: Sharing air-time with DS9. S7: still sharing air-time with DS9, but also the baggage of being "The Last One." S4: Truly standing on its own, speaking for itself.
Nolan
2024-11-17 23:35:14 +0000 UTCI didn't get the amusement. Surprise, yes. They looked more like victims of trolling.
Jovet
2024-11-17 23:29:44 +0000 UTCYes, I enjoy hearing your speculation! Especially on a big cliffhanger like this. Sometimes, I wish you guys could pause during an episode to speculate on how the episode is going to, but that'd make it super hard to watch alongside you. Also, I may not have seen ALL your videos, but your reaction to denise at the end is easily a top 10 target audience moment for me! Also, don't worry about being finished the "best season of Star Trek" yet. There will be several more contenders!
GreenCauldron08
2024-11-17 23:29:22 +0000 UTC@paultardspambot Voyager was also written by fifth-graders.
Jovet
2024-11-17 23:28:11 +0000 UTCThis "oh don't spoil me!" mentality is getting ridiculous.
Jovet
2024-11-17 23:27:11 +0000 UTCToo late. The Patron Takes were full of them.
Jovet
2024-11-17 23:26:28 +0000 UTCIt wasn’t a matter of him “wanting to leave” but a scene of him contemplating if leaving is the right thing to do or him considering the consequences of resigning would’ve been nice instead of resigning immediately when he gets told no seemingly without a second thought or any remorse
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 23:24:01 +0000 UTCWhat was the great speculation here? I missed it.
Jovet
2024-11-17 23:20:52 +0000 UTCI say I can appreciate their reactions even when they're wrong. I may need to re-watch the discussion. I gleaned nothing significant from it, which is surprising for a season finale. But Josh says Gowron wrong, like, 20 times. Is that just to make people like me mad? I can appreciate that things happen in episodes quickly sometimes, and it can be hard to keep up if you're not paying attention and filing things away in your mind as they happen. It is difficult to for me to understand paying close attention to an episode and not absorbing details like that. This reaction was ass. One of the few reactions they have done that make me actually question their sincerity. The recurring "downplay loved episodes, love hated episodes" I can totally see as being intentional to try to grow notoriety through drama. It IS nice when they finally admit they hate things (e.g. Pulaski) that they avoided wholly condemning before, though. Apparent sincerity is what appealed to me about this channel to begin with.
Jovet
2024-11-17 23:19:04 +0000 UTCFunny thing is, I can't remember was version of the episode it was, but there was one airing on TV or some streaming platform where you could see that the actress playing Crosby's character in The Mind's Eye wasn't really her. It was just her doing the voice over.
Joe Concepts
2024-11-17 23:17:38 +0000 UTCOh yes, I'm counting Lower Decks. I love that show!
Joe Concepts
2024-11-17 23:11:04 +0000 UTCi'm excited for that. im sure you guys are too. that last movie sitting in the box waiting to be watched. oh the temptation....
penoyer79
2024-11-17 23:09:57 +0000 UTCI even understand a B. They definitely could have switched up the dialogue with Guinan *just a little bit* and made Worf's decision make a lot more sense.
Pokeysaurus
2024-11-17 23:08:51 +0000 UTCidk guys. I don't think Worf wanted to leave Starfleet at all? Worf traded his family's support for Gowron for the restoration of his honor. He committed his brother to that. Now that he has essentially set the shape of the Klingon civil war, is he going to just... bail? No way. Honor demands he sees it through. He wanted to see it through on leave from Starfleet, and then rejoin. He asked Picard for a longer leave. When Picard said no, only then did he resign. He didn't seem excited about that. Standing by his people felt like duty, not desire. There's no earlier scene where he talks about wanting to leave because... he didn't. I *do* agree with you that the end was a bit rushed with the goodbyes, but I think you missed what was going on with Worf leaving.
Dor
2024-11-17 23:08:10 +0000 UTCWe absolutely count Lower Decks. By the time Josh and Alex get there, I fully expect LD to be the crowning jewel of comedy and continuity glory they can revel in after seeing it all.
Ross Townsend
2024-11-17 23:07:20 +0000 UTCi was nervous cause of how fresh the show as a whole is for you that you'd know instantly. Not that I'm complaining. All the better for the reaction that you didn't.
penoyer79
2024-11-17 23:06:24 +0000 UTCI am SO glad you had no clue that was Denise Crosby. But now that you've seen her face, she's no less of a mystery to you.
Evan Guthrie
2024-11-17 22:58:58 +0000 UTCI agree—and I typically find the Klingon stuff boring.
Jovet
2024-11-17 22:57:04 +0000 UTCI appreciate their reactions, even when they're wrong. A good WTF is amusing and disappointing sometimes.
Jovet
2024-11-17 22:51:40 +0000 UTCBole-ly going into another Cliff-hanger!
James H
2024-11-17 22:48:14 +0000 UTC1:04:50 How many times did they say Gowron's name in the episode? And Josh can't remember it properly? WTF
Jovet
2024-11-17 22:48:10 +0000 UTCNo. Gowron is not like Duras. Gowron does NOT conspire with Romulans!
Jovet
2024-11-17 22:45:30 +0000 UTCNever apologize for all the comments.
Jovet
2024-11-17 22:36:19 +0000 UTCIt never struck me as odd. The boundaries of "internal matter" are pretty clear.
Jovet
2024-11-17 22:34:43 +0000 UTCStar trek isn’t really about space battles 🤷♂️
Derek Orr
2024-11-17 22:34:17 +0000 UTCExactly. Exactly!
Jovet
2024-11-17 22:32:50 +0000 UTCIts wild how much the geo politics in this story are what’s happening in real life
Derek Orr
2024-11-17 22:31:27 +0000 UTC47:56 59:12 Exactly. The show's opening credits do not spoil anything. When it REALLY matters....they withhold it!!! (I know what's not what you were trying to say, but my point still stands.)
Jovet
2024-11-17 22:29:54 +0000 UTC46:52 I think you two just shorted out. Durrrrrrrrrr
Jovet
2024-11-17 22:27:43 +0000 UTC44:00 I'm so sorry you guys had to read the Patreon Takes for this episode. Spoilers galore.
Jovet
2024-11-17 22:24:43 +0000 UTCIt’s fun to listen to your speculations - we all did it back when the show was first on - we did not know Crosby was coming back for this episode either and it was a huge shock.
Paul Rymer
2024-11-17 22:08:09 +0000 UTC26:40 Picard finding Klingon breasts in his face always makes me laugh. Can't quite take his eyes off of them. hahaha
Jovet
2024-11-17 22:07:32 +0000 UTCShe was also in Shades of Grey
Paul Rymer
2024-11-17 21:58:16 +0000 UTCSo I heard you wanted a good end of season and a cliffhanger. Well there you go.
AzoriusMage
2024-11-17 21:54:44 +0000 UTCIn real time, we all knew Bones was going to be in the pilot. It was not a secret. Either way, “Let’s keep surprises,” developed very gradually as a routine consideration for television and movies. You are seeing the beginning of when it is on its way to becoming a regular thing.
Aramis Calcutt
2024-11-17 21:42:13 +0000 UTCThat "no end in sight" line from the song made me realize, after TNG there is so much Star Trek to go! There are EIGHT more series! NINE if you include Short Treks. And a Discovery spin off is coming, too. Whew!
Joe Concepts
2024-11-17 21:42:04 +0000 UTCNo. Just what we can gleam from each episode or a liaison based on a watched ep. These numbers are current for TNG up till this ep. Soon I will be rewatching TOS and I will start posting a board there looking at each ep. We try to assume yes if possible.
Prof Moff
2024-11-17 21:37:49 +0000 UTCI think the scene with Worf leaving the ship makes sense in the context that everyone is in shock of his decision, and he has to leave so quickly to join the war that nobody has time to come to terms with it. They are all standing there in the transporter room with unresolved feelings about Worf leaving but no space and time to express them to Worf, so they do what we all do in such a situation. Push those feelings down and do our best to show up and be present for the person who is departing on a different path. And this could also apply to Worf and Picard's last conversation, as well as our reaction and reception to the scene. We as the audience want his departure and its impact on his friends resolved, and just like his friends and fellow officers, we don't get that either. So maybe that scene isn't a failing of the episode, but rather a powerful and uncomfortable reminder that life doesn't always wrap up neatly with a bow the way that TV and movies make us expect it to. That's my take.
Sherpa Jones
2024-11-17 21:34:06 +0000 UTCJust wanted to reasure you that there are several more Star Trek seasons just as good as Season 4 or even better. I love all of 3+ TNG and the second half of DS9. And even after that I am sure you'll find plenty too enjoy. Even imperfect shows have occasional gems. I think y'all might agree with the common opinión that TNG season 7 drops off but it still ranks up there as good Star Trek whichbis great TV.
Cirk Bejnar
2024-11-17 21:15:56 +0000 UTC“The Streak!” Denise Crosby has now appeared in all four seasons of TNG, despite having left the show in the first season. And, yes, I’m counting the mini hologram appearance in “The Measure of a Man,” for season 2. Will the streak continue for the remaining three seasons of TNG, or will it be broken? Only time will tell…
Matt Everkoul
2024-11-17 21:07:01 +0000 UTCWorf going with Gowon makes sense because he sees that if the Duras family wins that would mean Romulans are running the empire. That's the worst thing imaginable for Worf. Also while he is loyal to the federation, he knows how bad a Klingon empire being a proxy for the Romulans would be. I felt like they didn't need more explanation because Worf's position was made clear in the ready room with Gowron and Picard.
Greg Quinn
2024-11-17 20:53:26 +0000 UTCI wouldn’t say I was disappointed, just that part 1 does such a good job building the tension and suspense. Part 2 you are faced with the reality that Picard is somehow going to be saved and the Federation wont be destroyed. The stakes are so high that the part of my brain that knew this was a TV show said there’s no way they are going to break the status quo that bad. I still love BoBW, I just thing the build up is stronger than the resolution.
EnigmaticPenguin
2024-11-17 20:39:19 +0000 UTCTo me S5 sounds more '80s Triumph-y; S4 more aughts Slipknot-y.
Mushroom-Bagel-Bites
2024-11-17 20:31:42 +0000 UTCKind of odd that we never see Picard contact his superiors for orders or input regarding a situation that could devolve into something that may have insanely far-reaching consequences.
thebeefmaster
2024-11-17 20:21:59 +0000 UTC=D
James Knight
2024-11-17 20:12:27 +0000 UTCI liked watching his face when Toral stood up and started crowing about Picard leaving. Movar goes from smug to disapproving silently in the background.
tyranusfan
2024-11-17 20:10:02 +0000 UTCThe shot you're talking about was definitely from Yesterday's Enterprise, and was reused here, and I think somewhere else down the line, but it was not used in the TOS movies. (You're thinking of another shot.)
tyranusfan
2024-11-17 20:08:28 +0000 UTCThat’s why there will never be another synth-pop theme. No point trying to top it.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 20:04:50 +0000 UTCEarly January, yeah. Probably sometime between the 9th-12th
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 20:03:59 +0000 UTCI think it’s a hard thing to do when you’re not aware who it is. I’m sure some people did
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 20:02:58 +0000 UTCspeculate away.i thought for sure you guys were going to recognize denise crosby's voice.
penoyer79
2024-11-17 20:02:25 +0000 UTCIt resembled her to an extent. What's odd is, that person has dark hair.
Michael Figueroa
2024-11-17 20:01:11 +0000 UTCMovar is one of those characters that always stands out for me. It’s Nicholas Kepros’ performance. He makes the most of what little he says. I think he has 3 lines in this episode but you know instantly this guy is smart, a little smug, and patient. And he has no patience for Toral.
Column Meanie
2024-11-17 20:00:56 +0000 UTCI don't feel like hes betraying Picard, Picard has just made it clear there is a conflcit of interest and Worf is left without an option. Lets think of what happens if he doesnt resign. Kern would be furious and withdraw his support, the Duras would surely win, and as Worf and Picard correctly suspect, that would mean and end to the Federation alliance and a new Romulan-Klingon Alliance. Picard even says he gets this is not in the federation's interests but he won't violate the Prime Directive in such an obvious way. You can be sure Kirk would. From Worf's perspective he is fulfilling his duties as a brother, a Klingon, and someone loyal to starfleet and the only way he can do that is be resigning so his actions are not "on" starfleet. Agaain, sorry for all the oomments, i make them as im watching and im usually late to the party
paultardspambot .
2024-11-17 19:55:01 +0000 UTCHe's already convinced Kern to back Gowron, and Gowron is outnumbered. Worf couldn't just leave and tell his brother to deal with it. He didn't want to resign, but he's already comitted to a course of action and Picard forced his hand.
paultardspambot .
2024-11-17 19:50:36 +0000 UTCThe scene before Worf resigns, we get him explaning to Picard why the Federation should intervene. I get that it didn't work for you, but there was setup for that with Gowron's speech and all the focus on him regaining his family honor. This is a situation where he gets that goal but also is doing what he legitimately thinks is best for both the Federation and the Empire.
paultardspambot .
2024-11-17 19:49:17 +0000 UTCSpeculations are fine by me, always a good laugh when they go into wacky realms. Looking ahead and doing the math, Star Trek VI the second week of Janaury???
James Knight
2024-11-17 19:45:58 +0000 UTCTo me this episode is hard to judge on its own. Since I would always watch it as both part 1 and part 2, thinking of it as just the first part, i'm more on board with their reaction then the audience comments. This is definitely a heavy setup episode, and to me the expereince of watching it with the second part makes it much better. ON it's own... well, its clearly setting up the pieces for what comes next, so it feels like they're holding their cards so to speak. The suddeness of the attack on Gowron's ship was cool. But yeah, it's like watching the first half of a movie. On its own, its ok, while as a whole, story is an S
paultardspambot .
2024-11-17 19:42:47 +0000 UTCWhile most of that battle footage is new, they do re-use that shot of one Klingon k'vort blowing up with the other K'vort in the background A LOT. Probably the most recylced shot in the franchise. Not sure when it first showed up but it ws in Yesterday's Enterprise and in one of the TOS movies, and I thinkt i shows up again. It is funny how tv has changed, it would be unthinkinkable in modern trek to re-use a space battle shot like that multiple times. Of course this was when they used physical models with CGI touchup. At lest some of the ships in more modern trel are entirely computer generated, and that looks much better then it did when the Star wars Prequel came out, the height of "Bad" cgi where aliens and shops looked like cartoons mixed with real actors.
paultardspambot .
2024-11-17 19:38:09 +0000 UTCYeah, Gowron's ship got one K'vort when they dropped the shields to board (I guess thats what Klingons do when a ship is crippled, they wanted to take Gowron prisoner in hopes the Duras family would reward them) Then the Kern showed up and chased off the other K'Vort.
paultardspambot .
2024-11-17 19:33:33 +0000 UTCDAMN! I love Gowran!
Nerd's Gold
2024-11-17 19:30:46 +0000 UTCYou don't like space battles? huh. Why? Not a spoiler, but I do think the quality of the space battles get betters in every sense as the franchise goes on. Some of the TNG battles were a bit lackadaisacal, like there is not much emergency. "Fire at the" ship gets hit, enterprise gets hits, everyone shakes. They definitely get way more intense.
paultardspambot .
2024-11-17 19:30:26 +0000 UTCSo when somebody asked where's the Klingon governer from "The Mind's Eye"- The Klingon empire has many more planets then just Quonos, the homeworld, probably around 50. By comparison the Federation has about 150 member states at this point, a member state not meaning just an inhabited planet but like the Vulcans or Andorians who have their own colonized planets and other single world members, The Romulans have about 50-60. For Klingons and Romulans, some of these are settled, some of them are conquered. In TOS there are 30 to 50 member worlds, the Federation is vastly larger in TNG. Anyway, the planet Krios had a Klingon governor as all Klingong planets presumably do. That is not the same as the high council. Its loosely analogous to how US States have a governor but there is also the congress. Not exactly the same as the Empire is not a democracy but is governed by its own Fedual law wheras the Federation is clearly modeled on the US constitution with each member state also having its own government (but they have a "bill of guarantees" analagous to the bill of rights that applies to all Federation citizens) Klingon governors govern on the planet they rule. The military also seems to be roughly feudal, explaining the situation with different commanders supporting different factions. Also, Starfleet has more ships then you guys seem to think. Because of the gillworm invasion in Conspiracy, the fleet was smaller then it should have been. 39 ships was a major loss, but I think y'all underestimate how large the Federation is and how many ships it takes to maintain. Hard to say but there are hundreds at this point. If the federation had to mobilize for war they could produce more, and its already been hinted that Shelby is changing the way starfleet has business lately, instead of just Utopia Planetia (the enterprise honestly was a bit of a boondoggle and investing so much in such a huge ship that is so multimodal and needed, if you think about it, basically evetything replaced as compared to the original Enterprise which never had technical problems) Shelby has been preparing Starfleet for a potential borg invasion. I think we're still in that process. There are maps available of the area around Federation Space that are fairly conssistent in terms of where things are in relation to each other but that might have some spoliers at this point. You could look at a TOS era map for some general sense (for example they would show the federation, klingons, romulans, gorn, but not the cardassians or ferengi. There is a site "Stellar Cartography" that has maps where you can search for a location. By later DS9 those maps are safe. The galaxy is three dimensional but it a disc so you can oreint it north to south. Alpha quadrant= Southeast, Beta=Southwest, Gamma= Northwest, Delta= Northeast. The Federation core is right around the axis line that divides the alpha and beat quadrants. The Federation mapped it this to put Earth right on that line, but after more correct measurements Earth is slightly "East" of that line in the Alpha Quadrant. There is an "up/down" but you need a different projection. The Klingong Empire is "southeast" of the Federation, though part of the federation goes "under" the Klingons, and then back out the other side, that part was not part of the Federation in TOS. BTW this is canon, while the various maps dont agree exactly, they agree on the basics and this has been derived from maps on screen and the official map book which is cannon. The Romulans are directly "east", and Romulus and the neutral zone at its closest point is closer then you would think. Thats because the romulans who left vulcan after the Sundering had limited warp capability and were in sleeper ships, the Raptor star they set course for was not "far" from Vulcan. The federatin extends out from the core but it is "thinner" in some sections. The Cardassians are southwest of the federation, the ferengi and Gorn and Tholians also west but futher from the fed core then the romulans. I think you guys would find the maps a little interesting, I could link to a TOS era one with no spoliers
paultardspambot .
2024-11-17 19:28:07 +0000 UTCMovar?
David Brown
2024-11-17 19:28:04 +0000 UTCNot sure anything will top Cosmic Journey.
Jack Molitor
2024-11-17 19:10:56 +0000 UTCI liked the first reveal of the Romulans in the Duras sisters' home, where the camera tracked around the darkened figure to reveal the Romulan general.
tyranusfan
2024-11-17 19:09:08 +0000 UTCYour speculation is often funny. I find myself smiling when you correctly predict things, and shaking my head (fondly) when you predict things that won't EVER happen.
tyranusfan
2024-11-17 19:06:27 +0000 UTCThat season 5 song is 🔥! And yeah this is a good episode for sure, but not a favorite of mine personally. But that Denise Crosby reveal is legendary. Crazy how an actor that only lasted a season could have two mind blowing reveals like this and Yesterday’s Enterprise. There was one point where Josh leaned forward intently looking at her in the shadows and I thought he might call out recognizing her voice.
Brian Moore
2024-11-17 19:03:01 +0000 UTCOne thing I noticed this time is that Crosby's hair covers up her ears so the viewer can't tell if she's human or romulan
paultardspambot .
2024-11-17 18:58:39 +0000 UTCVoyager can't be redeemed no matter what you do
paultardspambot .
2024-11-17 18:54:43 +0000 UTChuh. The outline looked like her.
paultardspambot .
2024-11-17 18:53:12 +0000 UTCthis is counting total partners?
paultardspambot .
2024-11-17 18:52:41 +0000 UTCReally? You were disappointed by BOTB 2? I thought it was an amazing resolution. What disappointed you?
paultardspambot .
2024-11-17 18:51:51 +0000 UTCThis was around the time a Klingon spinoff series was under strong consideration. Nothing came of it...so far, but it might have been fashioned to see how such a series might have looked.
Mark Chrisco
2024-11-17 18:51:13 +0000 UTCLike going back and re-ranking every episode? That'll take awhile.
paultardspambot .
2024-11-17 18:50:40 +0000 UTCYeah I was wondering about that. As a kid, I started late with season 7 (my friend and his dad were huge fans and loant me their tapes and I watched the previous seasons that way while watching season 7 being aired) But I imagine some hardcore trek fans might have recognized the voice, as the convention type people no doubt had videos of all the previous seasons and had watched the hell out of them. Granted its been awhile since Crosby was in it, Yesterday's Enterprise being the last example,but still you had to figure with the outline and voice some people got it.
paultardspambot .
2024-11-17 18:50:00 +0000 UTCGLORY TO YOU. AND YOUR HOUSE!
paultardspambot .
2024-11-17 18:45:56 +0000 UTCindeed, just saw it, no spoliers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKfkkhEbUlY
paultardspambot .
2024-11-17 18:45:04 +0000 UTCGowron is such a interesting character, he basically another Duras just one who more politically capable and who interests align with worf, he starts being completely dismissive of worf until he finds out information that could benefit him, he then tries to manipulate worf to use him to gain federation support just like the Dueas sister have done with the romulans, but is unwilling to stick his neck out, and only treats worf like a ally when he finds out about kurn and the 4 squadrons, honestly under different circumstances he would be the villain
Dark Kronis
2024-11-17 18:38:12 +0000 UTCMultiple things to say. 1) Weak A/strong B episode for me. 2) Your speculation on what is to come is one of the strengths of the channel 3) I disagree strongly - I felt Worf’s resignation from Starfleet was well built up in the episode. In the past, there wasn’t a personal family enemy on one side of a Klingon civil war that needed to be stopped at all cost
Jeffrey
2024-11-17 18:37:42 +0000 UTCAs always its great to watch you guys react to these episodes its like getting a second chance to remember what it was like to see them for the first time. I think your takes on this episode are great and I am ready to see Season 5 ep 1 with you... I know you are taking a break so bummer for me. Keep up the great work guys and I dig seeing your channel grow and your success. Thanks again for what you do.
Lt Dan I scream
2024-11-17 18:19:30 +0000 UTCA one week late birthday present, it’ll feel like! Trek on, and never stop being critical!
Ross Townsend
2024-11-17 18:15:50 +0000 UTCI disagree that Worf quitting didn't feel earned. Throughout the episode Worf was being pulled between two worlds ("This is as far as I will go"), and finally in that conference room scene the tension snapped and he chose his side. The hallway scene was MEANT to be a solemn occasion. Worf was leaving to enter a war, possibly to lose his life.
Gaming the Systems
2024-11-17 18:15:10 +0000 UTCSeason 5 will start 3 weeks from today, December 8th
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 18:04:38 +0000 UTCIt gets gimmicky if they are always trying to surprise with guest characters. I have an attention span disorder, so I like it as it teases me or helps me know what I'll focus on for the episode.
Patrick Smith
2024-11-17 18:02:59 +0000 UTCThere's a DS9 episode which will kill your soul to have the actor name in the credits before the reveal. I suppose your decision matches the 'authentic' experience, but on the other hand I don't think many of us pre-analyzed the credits on any of our first watches.
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2024-11-17 18:00:17 +0000 UTC100%
valen
2024-11-17 17:51:07 +0000 UTCGents, I can’t speak for everyone, but I ADORE seeing and hearing your speculation. Having seen everything before has no bearing. I’m here to vicariously live your first-time, joyous and unknowing experience with Trek. Keep telling us what you see, what you hope, and adding in these perspectives I never considered as a kid (director perspective, unique shots, writing analysis, and love or hate for characters). Sweet lord though, don’t make us wait for January to see the start of season 5, or Star Trek VI!!!!
Ross Townsend
2024-11-17 17:51:02 +0000 UTCThe rating of an episode on a first watch vs a third watch is justifiably different when you don't yet know what is to come.
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2024-11-17 17:50:15 +0000 UTCReally? What genre is 4 and what is 5?
Sam Langanke
2024-11-17 17:48:52 +0000 UTCThanks Russell, and welcome!
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 17:46:44 +0000 UTCEvery season is a different genre
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 17:44:57 +0000 UTCYou forgot to mention KURN son of MOGH
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2024-11-17 17:43:53 +0000 UTCGood points
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 17:43:42 +0000 UTCIt’s the normal 3 weeks, but it’s the last break.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 17:40:25 +0000 UTCWhat a finale. All good arcs have a beginning, a middle, and an end.
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2024-11-17 17:38:11 +0000 UTCHere's my Season 4 Ranking Recap Best of the Best: 6 Excellent: 9 Enjoyable: 8 Time Filler With Good Moments: 3 At Least It’s Only 45ish Minutes: 0 No. Just…No: 0 I haven't had any of the last two categories since Season 2, but eventually there will be some.
KatWithAttitude
2024-11-17 17:22:12 +0000 UTCAgreed
Collin Freeman
2024-11-17 17:15:42 +0000 UTCAgreed. For me, S in 1991; A in 2024.
Collin Freeman
2024-11-17 17:15:14 +0000 UTCRIP Tony Todd who played Kern. Died last week
Turtleboy
2024-11-17 17:13:31 +0000 UTCI think it's easier to give this episode an S if it was seen back in the early 90s for the first time. We just didnt have scenes like Picard's tea with the sisters outside of movies back then, so an episode like this was kind of magical.
Pokeysaurus
2024-11-17 17:08:21 +0000 UTCYou didn't say how long your season break will last this time. After all you hinted it will not be a whole month again, right?
Sam Langanke
2024-11-17 17:05:48 +0000 UTCCan confirm that the Star Trek 6 teaser is an elegant enjoyable short piece that is not at all spoilery for the ST6 movie or for current TNG watching.
Paul Hess
2024-11-17 17:02:44 +0000 UTCStating up front that, overall, I'm not a big fan of Klingon stuff in general, so it feels a bit odd to be arguing this position, but I feel like you're leaving Honor out of the equation. Worf went to Gowron and tried to regain his family name on the merits, but Gowron refused because he knew his political position was questionable. Remember that, in Reunion, Gowron is introduced as an outsider and an unknown quantity, while Duras' family has an ancient lineage with a long association with the Counsel. The eventual restoration ceremony is quiet and understated to again emphasize that Gowron has only a tiny faction backing him, most of which is there only because of Worf and Kern's maneuvering on his behalf. Gowron restored Worf's honor because, if he didn't, he'd be dead in the streets. Picard is correct that in order for Worf to continue to back Gowron he cannot simultaneously maintain any official association with the Federation, or something internal to the Empire would balloon into the equivalent of a World War. So, when he confronts Worf about that and recalls him to duty, Worf has no choice but to resign. If he returned to duty on the Enterprise, everything he had just regained would count for nothing -- his motivations derided as being purely self-serving and transactional as a Ferengi's. Gowron likely would have spit on Worf's boots and taken back his acknowledgement, because at that point it wouldn't matter and he'd be just as dead either way. While it may be somewhat unsatisfying, there's little tension in the sequence of events because, really, there weren't any other options.
Avaria
2024-11-17 17:01:31 +0000 UTCLove the season 5 theme song already. But I am kind of a metal head. So I would recommend a genre change for season 6 to broaden the appeal.
Sam Langanke
2024-11-17 16:59:10 +0000 UTCYour "speculations" are one of the best parts of the videos.
Owen Madden
2024-11-17 16:52:44 +0000 UTCI’ve been waiting for this reaction for SO long! I grew up with this show and know it so well that I can pretty much name any episode and season within seconds of listening to it. What I’m really enjoying about your channel and reaction videos, is that it’s the closest I can come to experiencing it for the first time myself. Your reaction at the reveal at the end was exactly MY reaction when it first aired. I was 11 years old, pretty much had the same reaction and was pissed that I had to wait the entire summer to see the resolution. I stumbled upon your channel very recently, just signed up for Patreon, and am enjoying the ride. Good day gentlemen.
Russell Elledge
2024-11-17 16:42:06 +0000 UTCAnd not only had it just been cleared, the man who cleared it wanted him to go fight with him. To a Klingon, that kind of thing means everything.
THE LORE!!!
2024-11-17 16:32:19 +0000 UTCWe didn’t miss it
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 16:30:44 +0000 UTCCannot believe you missed the most important reason why Worf chose to join the Klingons. His name has just been cleared. He is no longer an outsider among Klingons. ...and the Empire is at war with itself.
ellmo
2024-11-17 16:26:32 +0000 UTCBones in the pilot
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 16:23:43 +0000 UTCI can agree with the grades since this is only the beginning of a 2 part episode. I think this one finishes better than Best Of Both Worlds.
Stephen Wright
2024-11-17 16:22:44 +0000 UTCYou have to admit, this is the FIRST TIME they hid the special guest star on Star Trek. It was not part of television practice before that. It’s a new thing. So your criticism of past episodes still doesn’t hold. You are watching television slowly change live on screen.
Aramis Calcutt
2024-11-17 16:22:21 +0000 UTCSame. It’s a show that really grew on me throughout the years.
Column Meanie
2024-11-17 16:18:33 +0000 UTCLove your speculating. Please, keep speculating.
wildhunt1973
2024-11-17 16:18:11 +0000 UTCJust her voice in “Mind’s Eye”.
Column Meanie
2024-11-17 16:17:57 +0000 UTCI love Love LOVE this episode. Everything about it impresses the hell out of me. Intrigue, manipulation, surprises, backstabbing, a ‘WTF?!!’ ending….it’s all there. Worf gets his redemption. Love Picard’s face when Gowron gives back Worf’s honor…worth the wait! Loved Gowron’s conversations with Worf, tempting him with his Klingon heritage. The whole episode Worf is being tempted to prove to himself and others that he is a real Klingon. Guinan tempts him. Gowron tempts him. The memory and honor of his father tempts him. His decision to leave isn’t out of left field at all. For me it was a long summer waiting for Season 5! By the way, Denise Crosby does appear in the end credits, credited as “?”. It takes a LOT of negotiating to put an actor in the end credits. One thing we were treated to that summer of 1991 was the drop of the teaser for Star Trek 6. As I’ve mentioned before, I hope you guys do indeed watch this teaser in between S 4 and S5. It contains no spoilers whatsoever and is a lovely valentine to TOS. And it really helped to ignite the hype of the 25th anniversary of Star Trek. Watch and react to it! It’ll be a treat for us all!
Column Meanie
2024-11-17 16:16:43 +0000 UTCI love the speculation you both give, it''s one of my favorite things you all do. Please keep it up. It helps take me back to when I first saw the episodes and remember how I thought at the time. S-tier season.
Steve Krautkramer
2024-11-17 16:12:44 +0000 UTCI, for one, love the long form speculation and discussion at the end of these episodes. We're here for YOUR journey because we all love this show so much and love to see your progression through the series as you (hopefully) become hardcore fans like us, so yeah, deffo keep up the big breakdowns of the episodes and your own theories at the end.
Menty
2024-11-17 16:10:57 +0000 UTCAgreed. Especially with the Denise Crosby reveal.
wildhunt1973
2024-11-17 16:09:48 +0000 UTCDidn’t catch it at all, but was immediately recognizable when I went back
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 16:07:48 +0000 UTCWe forget her very often yes lol
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 16:06:39 +0000 UTCI gave this an A, as well, but the cliffhanger ending is an S. Time to go back and watch The Mind's Eye and listen to the Romulan agent's voice. Also, I think you may have forgotten the female Romulan subcommannder Taris in Contagion.
Collin Freeman
2024-11-17 16:05:32 +0000 UTCIt’s a rare condition, this day and age!
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 16:02:25 +0000 UTCI started this at an A, but I had to move it to an S because of the epic galaxy changing stakes of a Klingon civil war, council intrigue, Tony Todd, Tony Todd, Guinan, Worf resigning, Tony Todd, eyeballs. Just loved it overall. For me personally the reveal was the least interesting aspect. Oh and lots of fun Picard Pontifications.
Paul Hess
2024-11-17 16:00:23 +0000 UTCI agree there could have been more, but I think there's enough there to justify Worf leaving Starfleet. He's always been obsessed with Klingon culture from a distance, it's not the first time Klingons have tried to recruit him, and now not only is there a civil war with Gowron and Kurn on the same side, but the Duras family on the other, which of course he hates the idea of them taking power both politically and personally AND as a member of the Federation. It may be rushed, but the pieces are there. Edit: I see I paused too soon, but yes also good point about the Duras family being in bed with the Romulans as well.
Forbidden Donut
2024-11-17 15:56:44 +0000 UTCPlot twist: It’s really Lore in disguise!
Paul Hess
2024-11-17 15:55:20 +0000 UTCWe will tier list the entire series when we finish it, so we will find out then!
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 15:44:08 +0000 UTCWould also add I think I’d agree with the rating of B+ or A. I love this whole arc but always thought Redemption was a very good but not quite great episode 🤔
Darren Seal
2024-11-17 15:42:47 +0000 UTCI watched this with a friend once. She recognized Denise Crosby's voice in the first shadow scene. I'd already seen the episode, I had to bite my tongue to not confirm her suspicions Josh, I thought history had repeated it self when you leaned forward watching that scene. I was wondering if her voice hadn't at least made you suspicious.
Keith S
2024-11-17 15:39:25 +0000 UTCLooking back to season 1 and 2 now. Would you revaluate what you were giving A's and B's to seeing what you guys now consider to be an A or B after having seen "good tng"?
Mordock_Vapelord
2024-11-17 15:37:48 +0000 UTCGiving this episode anything other than S++ is heresy imo :O
valen
2024-11-17 15:37:00 +0000 UTCGotta go with Family Matters lol
Forbidden Donut
2024-11-17 15:36:56 +0000 UTCThat’s awesome, appreciate it and glad you’re here
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 15:35:34 +0000 UTCI think the season 3 cliffhanger is diminished by the part 2 resolution. This cliffhanger conversely I feel is enhanced by it. I expect you might increase the score when taking it as a complete episode. Either way, I’m really enjoying this journey. I haven’t watched TNG as a linear experience since it first aired. I’ve always just hopped around to my favourite episodes. Watching it with you guys has given me a big appreciation for how much the story and continuity evolved episode to episode, season by season. In my head, DS9 was the first true serialized Star Trek, but clearly TNG had its foot in the door first there.
EnigmaticPenguin
2024-11-17 15:34:39 +0000 UTCThe speculation was the best part of the reaction/discussion so please keep doing that when the shows throw you a curveball.
THE LORE!!!
2024-11-17 15:25:03 +0000 UTCIt was her voice
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 15:24:05 +0000 UTCIt was not her on screen, but her voice was ADR'd in.
Mike Rogers
2024-11-17 15:23:01 +0000 UTCadditional note - to all fans/haters, the board is based on what we see or can reasonably assume from the episode watched. It is as if you are doing a first watch. If you disagree about whether something should or should not be counted please reply but ONLY with information from that episode. If future reveals something different we change it as we have already a couple of times.
Prof Moff
2024-11-17 15:19:31 +0000 UTCThe sex scoreboard - No new adds for the end of season Riker 10 Troi 3 Dr. Bev 3 Data 2 Picard 1 Worf 1 Geordi 1 Broccoli 2 i Chief /Keiko 1 Hon board - Well I guess we have to bring back one of the highest scoring past players back on the board. Who the hell knows what that is all about but on screen means on the board. Tasha/Tosha/T' osh-a/Fauxsha 4
Prof Moff
2024-11-17 15:18:59 +0000 UTCIt's always fun listening to you speculate on what various thing means and whether they show up again or not. I'm sitting here thinking "yeah, yeah, no they don't bring that up again, Oh yeah they'll get a real kick when that comes up again".
Rogerbear60
2024-11-17 15:18:47 +0000 UTCIf I’m not mistaken it wasn’t Denise that played that first Romulan in the Geordi episode. It’s either not her or not her voice. Does anyone remember?
Sainjl
2024-11-17 15:18:23 +0000 UTCLove the speculation.
thebeefmaster
2024-11-17 15:17:57 +0000 UTCAhh, I really enjoyed the final reveal there. Been waiting to see you all's reaction to that for . . . like a season and a half.
Angelaina Marie
2024-11-17 15:09:38 +0000 UTCJust another reminder, no spoilers, and no "hints" on what is to come.
Gaming the Systems
2024-11-17 15:09:14 +0000 UTCWe aren’t going to alter the show to save it from itself. Purposely avoiding episode titles is already a bit much.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 15:04:54 +0000 UTCThat scene with Picard and the sisters is one of my favorites. A verbal chess game finished with Picard letting them know that he knows what’s up.
tyranusfan
2024-11-17 15:04:10 +0000 UTCIt's a S tier for me.
Josef Nitervol
2024-11-17 15:02:33 +0000 UTCThinking about names in opening credits, it would be good if there was a way for them to watch episodes prepared with spoilery names blurred out (as an example, and it’s a long way off, but I’m thinking (with no spoilers) about an episode of Voyager from early in S3 that spoils big surprises in the guest list).
Jakob1978
2024-11-17 15:01:17 +0000 UTCDon't worry guys, you've still got an awful lot of great star trek yet to come!
FPG
2024-11-17 14:53:56 +0000 UTCHad no idea it was episode 100 of TNG, nice
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-17 14:52:38 +0000 UTCAh Redemption the 100th TNG was the first time I experienced the long wait to a resolution! This one is loaded with great scenes but that cliffhanger is one of the biggest WTF moments in TNG.
Darren Seal
2024-11-17 14:46:33 +0000 UTCI will 100 percent watch 3rd rock from the sun with you guys.
Ashley Sconzo
2024-11-17 14:20:17 +0000 UTCBemused would the best word to describe the reaction you guys had to the reveal. One of surprise and amusement......
William McRae
2024-11-17 14:05:16 +0000 UTCLet's do this!
SinocTheHodgeheg
2024-11-17 14:01:04 +0000 UTCThis, and most of the rest of season 4, is an example of what makes Star Trek special.
thebeefmaster
2024-11-17 13:57:13 +0000 UTCI'm looking forward to grabbing some blood wine (or at least some Merlot) and watching this later. This is one of those episodes where there might a (good natured, ribbing) lynch mob if your ratings aren't what the mob wants to hear! I'm a little worried that the conclusion will come out while I'm at work, and you'll make me get in trouble by playing hookie again!
Paul Hess
2024-11-17 13:53:26 +0000 UTCWhat a season ..what a show cheers
Steve the greeeen hand
2024-11-17 13:51:14 +0000 UTCLet’s go !
Steve the greeeen hand
2024-11-17 13:50:57 +0000 UTC
