UNCUT - Half a Life (TNG S4E22) | Star Trek Journey 203
Added 2024-11-03 13:00:09 +0000 UTC
Comments
Y’know what? Fuck it. Someday we need a M*A*S*H reaction from these guys. After Stargate, of course. But still. Has to happen. You want the Stiers? That show will *give you* the Stiers. Oh. Ha. I wrote this before I saw the end.
Ragnarok
2024-12-29 02:03:48 +0000 UTCS tier. i’m this is one of the best guest performances in all of trek
David Marcoot
2024-11-13 23:32:33 +0000 UTCThe Prime Directive prohibits interference of any kind. It doesn't just apply to pre-warp civilizations. In "Justice" for example, the Edo did not have warp drive but they were aware that other species exist in the galaxy.
That one green Bolian
2024-11-12 02:03:46 +0000 UTCThis is one of my favorite TNG episodes. I’d give it an S.. “that guest actor”? David Ogden Stiers? From seeing him first on MASH right down to his playing the animated clock in Beauty and the Beast, the guy is incredible. This episode was the best of SciFi… it was addressing a huge moral issue with heart. It let you see all sides, and I guarantee you, this episode will stay with you.
Crankygrandma
2024-11-11 23:31:50 +0000 UTCSorry for late reply. Been a busy week and didn’t have the free time until today. I don’t know if they were trying to argue the point, but I’ve met a lot of those opposed to euthanasia(before they passed, I had a parent who was incredibly religious and had strong opinions on the subject). Those opposed tend to either be religious and consider it murder and/or suicide, and/or those that distrust that opening the door at all will lead to extremes, and they would consider this planet a perfect example of what happens once it’s allowed(except they would have made sure the writers included automatic elimination of the disabled, whether mental or physical along with the set age killing). So while possibly unintentional on the writers part, it ends up seeming like a very anti-euthanasia message right in line with the actual arguments by those who believe ANY allowance is evil and always leads to this or worse. I would have liked a little nuance, even just to have a brief mention clarifying the difference between what that world is doing and reasonable allowances for end of life measures on some worlds. I enjoy good discussions on topics, I just think here they incidentally made extremists on the topic think they were in agreement with them.
Todd “Canuck” Schmuck
2024-11-11 03:01:07 +0000 UTCWow. STILL bitching about Q pid. Impressive.
David Scudder
2024-11-09 02:45:04 +0000 UTCIt may be "wrong" to expect it, but it's also "normal" to expect it -- our society almost requires this to be the case and is built around this expectation if you haven't been able to accrue a fair amount of wealth throughout your life. I'm really starting to get up there in years, and I never had children (and never will, pretty much too late to start now), and I'm coming to the realization that my options are far more limited than normal folks might be. You have to be pretty rich to be able to have a normal lifestyle 70, 80 years and beyond, otherwise, it's assisted care homes that are hellholes except for the more expensive ones which... well, you have to be rich, once again. As long as I can read and use a computer I can certainly enjoy life to a limited extent. Losing the ability to walk outside and enjoy nature would be a huge, huge blow to me, but I could survive. But if I had all of those things taken from me, as my father did, I would strongly consider my own "Resolution."
Ian Westcott
2024-11-08 19:22:13 +0000 UTCBasically what Greg said. It should be the child doing so out of the love they have for their parent, but too often it seems like an expectation from the parent which kind of ruins the gesture imo
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-08 17:41:15 +0000 UTCI think there take is more that they think it's wrong for the parents to expect that. Which I don't totally agree with but don't totally disagree with either.
Greg Quinn
2024-11-08 07:11:10 +0000 UTCI haven't seen this comment posted already but I was a little taken aback when TargetAudience said they recoil at the idea of children having any responsibility to their parents in their elderly years. I understand that some people cut off contact with their parents due to years of abuse or ill-treatment, so there are reasonable exceptions, but it seems crazy to think that family that has cared and supported you for 20+ years should consider themselves on their own in their elder years. I remember visiting with my 90-year old grandmother in her last days. It was really hard but also touching to help her with things she couldn't do anymore. She had showed me so much love over my life. I can't even imagine not wanting to be there with her in her last days. My dad is getting up in years (over 70) and he is difficult and curmudgeony at times but I welcome him whenever he wants to visit. We have so little time left. I want to cherish it and I want my daughter to know him and remember him fondly. It hurts to think so many people don't feel the same.
Kristina Weber
2024-11-07 17:41:56 +0000 UTCM.A.S.H is one of my favorite shows, it has a lot of comedy and heart, it's not really about the war. It's more about the doctors treating the patients of war and how they cope/deal with it. One of the greatest shows
Gregory Mark Coburn
2024-11-06 11:19:28 +0000 UTCIt was a random number I picked around half of the number I suspected to be true. 😀
Jovet
2024-11-06 08:20:29 +0000 UTCI only really enjoy it from the start of season 4 onwards (Potter and Honeycutt). But that’s just me
tyranusfan
2024-11-06 01:11:11 +0000 UTCIt was to me like Star Trek and Dukes of Hazzard. A show in such ubiquitous reruns it was impossible to avoid
John M.
2024-11-05 23:27:39 +0000 UTCI'm 49, MASH was a little too before my time! It was "that boring looking show that came on after the afternoon cartoon block ended."
Ian Westcott
2024-11-05 22:54:53 +0000 UTCFirst couple words of the episode: "Captain's Log, " Josh: "I'm out!"
Ian Westcott
2024-11-05 22:52:34 +0000 UTCI kindof assume that the "age" they chose was chosen loooooong ago when their society was more primitive and people didn't live as long. And then, because politics, it just became something that was was outdated and hard to change.
Ian Westcott
2024-11-05 22:51:50 +0000 UTCBefore I rewatched the series and just had my memories of the first broadcast run, I thought "oh god, Lwaxana episodes suck. That's always a pass." Rewatching the show a few decades later and my opinion on what the best episodes are had totally changed. Episodes like The Bonding and Half A Life are absolutely in my top 10, and I had absolutely no memory of watching them as a child. They just went way over my head.
Ian Westcott
2024-11-05 22:32:41 +0000 UTCTo be fair, Star Trek, even TNG, does not treat the Prime Directive consistently.
Ian Westcott
2024-11-05 22:28:26 +0000 UTCI think people (including myself) have to be reminded every once in awhile, that the Federation is not Star Fleet. Star Fleet is part of the Federation, but they are not interchangeable. So because you see Star Fleet acting some way (I'm looking at you, Wesley "Star Fleet doesn't lie" Crusher doesn't mean the Federation is held to the same standard. There's probably more similarities with the loose confederations of planets in Star Wars than many care to believe.
Ian Westcott
2024-11-05 22:27:17 +0000 UTCYou didn't get to this when reading user comments for this episode, but the most surprising part of your reaction is that you didn't like the cold open! I think it's one of the most enjoyed cold opens in the whole series. All you needed was "my mother is on board," and both the audience and Picard immediately thought "uh oh.." Star Trek, and TNG certainly, has very rarely done comedy well. This is a definite case of the show hitting those comedic notes PERFECTLY. I wouldn't change a thing about that pre-credits sequence. It's perfect.
Ian Westcott
2024-11-05 22:24:14 +0000 UTCInterestingly, this episode was 3 years before Dr. Jack Kevorkian was tried four times for assisting suicides between May 1994 and June 1997.
Jeff Lawson
2024-11-05 21:36:37 +0000 UTCI think it was also a deliberate misdirect on the part of the writers, setting everybody up to think it was gonna be Just Another Funny Lwaxana Episode. All part of what made the tone shift so effective.
SageGreenGoat
2024-11-05 19:01:46 +0000 UTCHe is Wiggins/ Ratcliffe for me (Pocahontas,1995) I can quote that movie line for line
Shanelle
2024-11-05 17:45:43 +0000 UTC@Jovet I thought that was a Logan’s run reference, but they kill at 30? So now I’m not sure where 34 came from.
Paul Hess
2024-11-05 13:52:43 +0000 UTCI was writing a nice summary of the theme from M*A*S*H and its bizarre history, but my internet "conveniently" went out for, like, 8 hours, and I lost it all. Oh well.
Jovet
2024-11-05 13:48:32 +0000 UTCYou're turning 34?
Jovet
2024-11-05 13:45:01 +0000 UTC@Henry Gratwick Watching this time, I think it's almost safe to assume she had just read his mind! LOL!
Jovet
2024-11-05 13:43:58 +0000 UTCIt's a bit unclear up until this point in Trek I think. Episodes like this make it more clear.
Greg Quinn
2024-11-05 07:23:55 +0000 UTCLOL I got my info from ChatGPT, and that was probably the episode count when the model was trained! ;-)
Paul Hess
2024-11-05 05:43:17 +0000 UTCNah, there's a real difference between "show" and "tell" in storytelling.
Pokeysaurus
2024-11-05 05:29:11 +0000 UTCIt's often shunned, but it's human nature to judge things. There is a difference in judging something or someone not proper or suitable, and deciding that thing or person has no right to exist. Criticism or judgement is not the same as condemnation. Timicin's daughter's "how dare you" is ridiculous—there is absolutely no reason to believe one's self immune from criticism. None of us are perfect or ideal. A mature, well-adjusted adult should be able to accept those criticisms and objectively decide if the person making them may have a point. At the same time, the person making the criticism should not expect that criticism to effect a change. Respecting each others' opinions does not mean we always agree, it just means we are willing to listen and grow together.
Jovet
2024-11-05 05:04:12 +0000 UTCI saw only 1 or 2 mentions. He was such a great actor.
Tom Occhipinti
2024-11-05 04:59:52 +0000 UTCI didn't know it was possible to make sense of the "TNG warp scale" since there are, like, 4 of them? All of them are supposed to be logarithmic but I don't believe they're supposed to be read into too deeply. Sorta like Cetacean Ops.
Jovet
2024-11-05 04:55:26 +0000 UTCI did not know he was a conductor! That puts his Charles Emerson Winchester III character in a new light!
Jovet
2024-11-05 04:51:15 +0000 UTCAs someone who was a caregiver to both of his parents for many years, I can see Lwaxana's "Well, why the hell not?" and also the reverse. All of us are different, and some of us are just not equipped to be caregivers, and that's okay. Places like Sunset Villa exist for a reason, and that reason isn't usually very joyous, but like I said, just not everyone can do it themself—no matter how much you love your parents.
Jovet
2024-11-05 04:50:08 +0000 UTCI have never interpreted this episode as preaching for legalizing euthanasia.
Jovet
2024-11-05 04:46:21 +0000 UTCI know he's from M*A*S*H too, I just didn't feel the need to repeat what several others had already written, here and in the Patron Takes.
Jovet
2024-11-05 04:45:13 +0000 UTCI always wondered... what happened to people who died early or accidentally, without their "Resolution"? Were their families more disappointed that their loved one died, or did not have his Resolution? I really appreciate the ethical point this episode "tries to make" and it's much more involved than it appears on the surface.
Jovet
2024-11-05 04:41:27 +0000 UTCMy mother worked for Arbitron. You could just not record it in your diary, too.
Jovet
2024-11-05 04:39:57 +0000 UTCIt's very cynical and anti-war, errr, anti-police-action.
Jovet
2024-11-05 04:39:11 +0000 UTCThe boys were ready to shrug it off because it's a Lwaxana episode, but I am glad they overcame that by actively watching it instead of tuning it out.
Jovet
2024-11-05 04:38:12 +0000 UTCI suspect that the vehemency with which the government essentially enforced the custom indicates there is dissent about it.
Jovet
2024-11-05 04:36:00 +0000 UTCM*A*S*H is one of the best television programs ever. There were some real gems back then!
Jovet
2024-11-05 04:33:35 +0000 UTCLOL! I can relate. I have not really known many of the episode titles very well, but I'm learning them better now.
Jovet
2024-11-05 04:32:30 +0000 UTCYeah, the idea of not having space travel and not understanding that there are other sentient species in the universe is a bridge to be traveled when space travel is eventually developed. There's also a line of reasoning for space-traveling species whom /ask/ for help.
Jovet
2024-11-05 04:32:00 +0000 UTCMy parents had me when they were both 37, and I've only ever known one living grandparent and one great grandparent (her mother).
Jovet
2024-11-05 04:30:20 +0000 UTCI like Lwaxana's character, because like Q, she reminds us to not take Star Trek so dang seriously all the time.
Jovet
2024-11-05 04:29:05 +0000 UTCI’m fairly close to 60 (a few more years) so this episode is a little unsettling to me now.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2024-11-05 04:28:52 +0000 UTCThere is nothing spoil-y about opening credits. It's like saying you're being spoiled by opening a gift and seeing what it is in the package before you read the product name on the package. It's still the same gift, it's still the same episode.
Jovet
2024-11-05 04:28:15 +0000 UTCStar Trek currently sits at 946 episodes counting the movies.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2024-11-05 04:25:19 +0000 UTCM*A*S*H is an excellent television show, though. It's not in competition with Star Trek.
Jovet
2024-11-05 04:25:04 +0000 UTCFirst I just wanted to address some Prime Directive confusion. There's no point in which you can interfere with the internal affairs of another society, even within the Federation. Kind of like how no country can (or should) dictate the laws and cultural practices of another country. All that changes with being warp capable is now the Federation is free to introduce themselves since alien contact is now considered a natural consequence of deep space exploration. It's basically 'your home is still your home, but welcome to the community'. Another great episode. Did you learn the lesson from the last episode that you should be open to questioning your convictions? Well now it's exam time. I don't think I've questioned myself more at the end of an episode than with this one. For this story to take me on a journey with L'waxana, sympathize with her position, and then make me feel like a jerk along side her while still not declaring either side right or wrong was absolutely impressive to me. This is nuanced writing at it's best.
Paul Noad
2024-11-05 02:39:09 +0000 UTCKirk wouldnt had change anything in Taste they capyured the Landing party and condemned the ship
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-11-05 01:36:52 +0000 UTCYeah Odgen Steirs is a good actor, and Majel did a good job in this one. He went home to die how would he be recurring. Kind of a take on Logan's Run mixed with Ageism, I'm taking care of my 94 YO mom I can relate
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-11-05 01:31:31 +0000 UTCM*A*S*H: 256 episodes. Star Trek (all series) 850 episodes. M*A*S*H is just a walk in the park, a little bite sized dessert.
Paul Hess
2024-11-04 23:05:17 +0000 UTChow could you hve watched all tihs Trek and not know the Prime directive is for all worlds
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-11-04 23:00:00 +0000 UTCAnd Lenny Briscoe was the candlestick (Only took 30 years to figure that one out)
Matt Newmark
2024-11-04 15:47:22 +0000 UTCI know we try to avoid spoilers here, but I'm not sure how hard I'd hope for a recurring role from the person who was beaming down to kill himself. He sure was great in that role though.
Matt Newmark
2024-11-04 15:42:25 +0000 UTCeven I watched this episode nearly 30 time and I was sleepy with only one eye open, at the end of the episode a tear ran down my face. / I liked the funny beginning of deanas log in compination with picards appearing.
Redjac
2024-11-04 14:13:34 +0000 UTCYep...but the implications for pre warp/ unaware of other species is no contact at all. But for species that have warp or knowledge of other species they interact but they don't try to change or influence them.
Greg Quinn
2024-11-04 08:51:03 +0000 UTCThis is the one wear I started to enjoy the character
Zack
2024-11-04 04:59:24 +0000 UTCYou guys are going to continue to be "spoiled" by more opening credits and episode names. They just used to do it like that. I guess they didn't see the value of holding back stuff like that as a surprise. To bad really
Zack
2024-11-04 04:54:23 +0000 UTCThey did it, they made you care about a guest character you didn't have any interest in. And by 'they', I mean L'waxana of all people.
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2024-11-04 04:17:32 +0000 UTCI came along late in my family, so I grew up with older parents, older grandparents, and their friends, and I think that may be why I've always had a soft spot for older characters and in particular Lwaxana, who reminds me a little bit of my grandmother and one of her best friends. That made everything to do with her and Timicin hit hard for me, even when I was younger. Now that I'm middle age, and my grandparents are long gone, and my parents' generation is getting up there, it just hits home even more.
Forbidden Donut
2024-11-04 03:53:46 +0000 UTCJesus fucking christ that finale is absolutely nuts. It gave ME THE VIEWER ptsd.
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2024-11-04 03:26:47 +0000 UTCThe prime directive applies to any culture, pre-warp or otherwise. Federation cannot interfere in political/social/technological development of any civilization.
Marko
2024-11-04 03:08:05 +0000 UTCDamn, I’ve watched the entire series like 10 times and I don’t know the episode numbers like they do. I’ve only been watching the show for 30 years, so I think I’ll have them all memorized by 2034.
Anthony Picard
2024-11-04 01:45:28 +0000 UTCThe show definitely works better as an adult. And Stiers' Major Winchester may be my favorite character on that show.
Joe Concepts
2024-11-04 01:33:24 +0000 UTCNope we both clearly react and laugh loudly when it happens.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-04 01:31:05 +0000 UTCThank you Paul
Collin Freeman
2024-11-04 01:30:49 +0000 UTCThank you Greg
Collin Freeman
2024-11-04 01:30:38 +0000 UTCGood question, I can’t think of one
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-04 01:29:32 +0000 UTCEh I saw your guys react to her coming around the corner after he had already left the turbo lift and start walking down the corridor but you were mid talk seemingly not looking at the screen when he did his corner peek.
Greg Quinn
2024-11-04 01:06:49 +0000 UTCAre you inviting everyone to the Resolution? (There is a joke in there about the upcoming election that I won't make). On a serious note...happy belated birthday.
Greg Quinn
2024-11-04 01:02:26 +0000 UTC...other things....
Greg Quinn
2024-11-04 00:59:55 +0000 UTCI hated Mash as a kid...(it ended when i was 4 so I think I mostly saw it on second run syndication/reruns. But I saw some episodes a few years back and realized it had just gone over my head.
Greg Quinn
2024-11-04 00:58:52 +0000 UTCI also love at the end how she assures Picard she won’t cause any problems - even though I guess it’s meant with regards to her not trying to derail the ritual, but I always also took it to mean she wouldn’t be flapping about with her general antics like she had in every previous episode she’d been in in the show so far. And for some reason, that always really increased how the moment hit me in the feels.
GratChat
2024-11-04 00:38:48 +0000 UTCM*A*S*H* is a great sitcom that is hilarious, but still manages to have some of the most heart-wrenching episodes ever screened on television. You guys would love it. There is a reason that its final episode still hold the record 41 years later as the highest rating non-sports programme in US history. Yes, there are about 250 episodes (11 seasons), but its a sitcom, so they are only 25 minutes long.
Regan
2024-11-04 00:27:44 +0000 UTCHe also did the voice of Jumba in Lilo and Stich.
Keith S
2024-11-04 00:24:13 +0000 UTCGreat scene, but it's from the series finale, still the most watched non-sports program in US TV history.
KatWithAttitude
2024-11-03 23:29:01 +0000 UTC... and the narrator.
Michael Metrick
2024-11-03 23:26:14 +0000 UTCoverall it a A episode but as a L'waxana episode it a S, the previous one weren't even a C
Dark Kronis
2024-11-03 23:25:56 +0000 UTCIt's pronounced "sty-ers"
Michael Metrick
2024-11-03 23:25:44 +0000 UTCthe same reason people post their personnel drama on tiktok for everyone to see
Dark Kronis
2024-11-03 23:24:30 +0000 UTCMASH is still considered one of the best TV shows of all time. Top ten on my list.
Michael Metrick
2024-11-03 23:23:34 +0000 UTCYes but the first few seasons are the best
Phil Ken Sebben
2024-11-03 23:00:32 +0000 UTCStiers didn't join until Season 6 of M*A*S*H*
C
2024-11-03 22:53:10 +0000 UTCDavid Odgen Stiers was the voice of Cogsworth in Disney's animated version of Beauty and the Beast.
Anthony Goodwin
2024-11-03 22:45:59 +0000 UTCHe also played a role in Stargate Atlantis, very well there too.
Paul
2024-11-03 22:03:32 +0000 UTCI love how intetional that feels from the writer too "you have these preconceived ideas about Lwaxana? Well get ready for this..."
Vina
2024-11-03 22:02:24 +0000 UTCHappy Birthday, Collin!
Paul
2024-11-03 21:59:20 +0000 UTCInteresting to watch this episode slowly grab you guys. Has there ever been a Trek episode that subverted your expectations as much as this one?
Jonathan Llyr
2024-11-03 21:49:51 +0000 UTCI give this episode an A as well. It doesn't meet my criteria of being a series or (main)character defining episode to make it an S, but it's very good. Stiers and Barrett really do carry the episode, and Gene's impending death no doubt informed Majel's performance here. Before this episode Lwaxana was amusing though somewhat annoying. In this episode I just feel bad for her. I also admire that she's the only one to have the moral courage to question this world's customs. I get that the PD prohibits the crew from interfering, but they can still have an opinion, and they voice no real criticism even among themselves. Having seen how the so called "MAID" program here in Canada went from ostensibly about alleviating suffering for the terminally ill or those so disabled/disfigured that their quality of life will always be terrible, to wounded veterans or seniors who still have things to live for being suggested to kill themselves essentially to spare society the burden of caring for them. There is even talk of expanding it to children as young as 12 with conditions as minor as depression. Obviously any system that removes choice from the equation is quite horrific. I have no issues with someone downing a bottle of pills or something if they feel their future is nothing but suffering, but it has to be their choice, and I don't want the government anywhere near it. Also I agree it seems almost impossible that there is NO dissent on this world against the practice. Either there is and those that oppose it are forced into it, or there's North Korea levels of indoctrination going on. They've had this practice for 1500-2000 years, meaning they started around the 4th-9th century on Earth. Timicin is a couple years younger than Picard, and while not as fit, he certainly doesn't come across as older, so they could probably live as long as humans. The Kaelon's do have space ships and the means(but not the will) to evacuate. Assuming they're roughly on par with the federation and had a similar path of technological development, we can compare them to where Earth was at the time. Between the 4th and 9th centuries, most people were lucky to make it to 40, and that's after discounting the many, many children who died before reaching adolescence. Once you reached 15 or 20, and survived childhood, you could expect to make it to 35 or 40. Nobles or rich people who could avoid diseases or physical hardship that others couldn't might reach their 60s, but as recently as the 1950s a lot of major countries only had a life expectancy of 65 or 70 years. Perhaps they developed slower than humans and reached that level close to 2000 years ago and haven't advanced very fast since. Either way, in a future where you can have McCoy walking around in his 130s and probably have people still active/working past 100 in many cases, keeping the mandatory age to kill yourself at 60 seems incredibly misguided. Putting aside having a mandatory age is incredibly misguided to begin with. To be willing to let your entire world die just because 1 guy wants to hold off till his work is finished is absurd. It's not the first or the last time Trek touches on the subject of getting old, some of which we wish we could forget(looking at you Deadly Years), it is a very memorable episode. It manages to make me both very angry, and very sad, and for that it deserves an A.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-11-03 21:33:42 +0000 UTCHad those books as well back in the day. IIRC, they were put out of print because the publisher made the mistake of not getting a license from Paramount to publish a Star Trek book.
Mark Chrisco
2024-11-03 21:15:53 +0000 UTCBrilliant performer. I also remember he was featured in a failed Justice League of America pilot as no less then the Martian Manhunter.
Mark Chrisco
2024-11-03 21:10:13 +0000 UTCIt also lasted 9 years more than the actual war did.
Nolan
2024-11-03 21:09:39 +0000 UTCDeanna's log at the beginning was a personal log. She was basically venting to her diary. I dunno why people in the future log so much outside of their jobs, but it's an easy go to narrative shortcut.
Nolan
2024-11-03 21:08:06 +0000 UTCNo we get it.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-03 20:57:27 +0000 UTCWe overall liked Logan’s Run
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-03 20:56:39 +0000 UTCWe laughed at that, so not sure what you’re referencing us talking over
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-03 20:55:29 +0000 UTCI just realized that a Babylon 5 episode, Believers, deals with some of the same themes of this episode. Particularly, the consequences of refusing to follow a tradition that's so deeply ingrained in your home culture, that your culture exiles you if you don't follow it. Would death be preferable at that point? Also, I'm assuming other people on Temison's planet have probably doubted the resolution before, or even chose exile rather than go through with it. This doesn't necessarily have to be the first time that it's happened. It just that it happens so rarely that no cultural change has resulted from it.
BN13
2024-11-03 20:54:12 +0000 UTCMichelle Forbes is from Battlestar Galactica amoung other things.
BN13
2024-11-03 20:45:49 +0000 UTCI know lots of people dislike this episode, simply for it being a L'waxana episode, but I still love it. I find it has a powerful message and social commentary. It has zero action, but some good stakes and tension IMO. 8/10 for hitting me in the feels every time.
Clyde Frog
2024-11-03 20:42:43 +0000 UTCTrue but it seems like a pretty 90’s lifespan..
Philbot
2024-11-03 20:32:45 +0000 UTCSince y'all briefly mentioned being unfamiliar with MASH: Yes, it's set in the Korean War, but it's not a "war show". It's a sitcom that occasionally uses its war setting to inject some drama (leaning more into the drama in the later seasons). "MASH" is an acronym for "Mobile Army Surgical Hospital", so their staff is all doctors, nurses, and logistics people, with essentially no combat soldiers, except the bare minimum to stand guard around the camp. The show is mostly a comedy about life in their camp as they all try to keep their spirits up. Even in the later seasons where it leans more into drama, it's still more of a medical drama rather than a war show.
Jeff Cornell
2024-11-03 20:21:55 +0000 UTCBack when ratings was a physical Neilson Box that viewers had in their homes, if you turned a show off quickly it didn't count as a the viewer not liking the show vs if you turned it off after the opening few minutes. They know a percent of the fans are turning off as soon as Mom appears, by putting it in the log they allow those people to turn it off without it counting as bad ratings.
Alan Thompson
2024-11-03 20:14:58 +0000 UTCThank you, Timothy.
Collin Freeman
2024-11-03 20:13:53 +0000 UTCHappy (belated) birthday
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-11-03 20:11:30 +0000 UTCI know he's from MASH, but I only saw a bit of the show as a kid, and he didn't have a beard there IIRC.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-11-03 20:10:20 +0000 UTCPretty good reasoning, however the next ep is only 16 stardate units after this one, which with 1000 stardates a year, that only leaves about 6 days between them. Probably less, but saying why would be spoilers
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-11-03 20:01:02 +0000 UTCTimicin made a very reasonable point. If his people feel that a person's life shouldn't be left to continue toward its natural end.... then why did they fight to keep their planet alive? It wasn't a throwaway line from Lwaxana. It was also good to see Majel get to bring some drama to that character.
Tom Occhipinti
2024-11-03 19:55:18 +0000 UTCIn my younger days, I would have probably given this episode a C. But after the life I've had over the past 30 years, I give it a B+. It hit me harder, which I was not expecting. Kudos to David Ogden Stiers (and Michelle Forbes). The performances alone bump this up to another level. And I just turned 60 last Sunday, so there's that.
Collin Freeman
2024-11-03 19:44:48 +0000 UTCYep it made the joke funny when Picard is looking around the corner (but at the time they missed it). That wouldn't have really worked without the "spoiler" (which wasn't a spoiler at all).
Greg Quinn
2024-11-03 19:42:32 +0000 UTCExactly. It was an odd thing to nitpick
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-11-03 19:41:31 +0000 UTCthis is the funniest opening 'captain's log! i thought you guys would laugh also this is probably my favorite guest actor performance so far
Narnman
2024-11-03 19:39:59 +0000 UTCYeah, I forgot about that. I haven't seen the movie in a long time.
KatWithAttitude
2024-11-03 19:35:30 +0000 UTCTroi saying her mother was on board made Picard looking around the corner fearfully work better. You guys were just talking over it...🤣
Greg Quinn
2024-11-03 19:32:20 +0000 UTCThere is a beautiful ceremony where you are surrounded by your friends, and you lay down and drink the potion while someone sings acapella the song Suicide is Painless. (MASH tie-in)
Paul Hess
2024-11-03 19:26:17 +0000 UTCIt also quickly tells the audience who the character is in relevance to everyone else. For watchers of the show when it first aired, especially for the first 4 seasons, if you wanted to get into a show you’ve heard is good, you couldn’t just catch up from the beginning like now. Forget streaming, back then you didn’t even have dvd’s to watch of a show(there were VHS tapes of some shows, but with only 2-3 episodes on a $20-30, there were for diehard fans, not new viewers). And until a series went into syndication(I believe it was season 5 for TNG), the only chance to watch any older episodes were reruns once a week, and they typically only reran episodes from that season. It’s the main reason most shows were episodic back then with little serialization. You would struggle to bring in new viewers, and even old viewers might struggle to keep up if they missed too many episodes while the show aired(something trailblazers like DS9 struggled with). It’s not a coincidence the golden age of tv shows really got rolling once dvd releases of entire seasons of shows began to release AND be affordable(shows wisely would often sell the first season for next to nothing to get new fans hooked).
Todd “Canuck” Schmuck
2024-11-03 19:24:29 +0000 UTCOnly 1 or 2 people out of 56 comments so far.... recognize the guest actor from MASH. Unfortunate. Here's a scene with him from MASH: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmcQt0fdftw
Tom Occhipinti
2024-11-03 19:16:01 +0000 UTCGood breakdown of Lwaxana’s character. Although I think we get a more clear example of betazoid menopause(and its side effects) a few seasons from now. 🤔😒
Todd “Canuck” Schmuck
2024-11-03 19:00:13 +0000 UTCI have mixed feelings about this episode. The performances were great, and there were hints of interesting ideas. But I don’t like this being used as an example of exploring euthanasia, as it’s a straw man argument version of it that nobody watching would likely support. As someone with chronic illness for a good chunk of my life that while good now, may not always be, the right to say I’ve had enough if things ever get bad enough remains in the back of my mind(especially with the opioid epidemic making doctors much more reluctant to prescribe pain relief to even the most justifiably in need. The possibility.of being forced to live your final years in abject agony terrifies me a bit). This culture isn’t doing this to spare anyone pain, or hardship. If they were, the trigger would be the first sign of declining health or an early but fatal health diagnosis(I think the episode would have been better to have the scientist in the early stage of an illness that had not yet begun to effect him). No, this is a society that is most likely using relief from pain and suffering as an excuse to not have to spend anything(money nor time) on its aging members. There’s no need to spend on social security or late stage health care costs. No time spent caring for the elderly. And with no retirement spending, all the assets are intact for children/family inheriting from the recently deceased. The society is so blind to change that they’d rather risk their entire world dying than have an exception for what may be the one scientist on track to save their planet. 🤦♂️ It’s a shame that there were still decades before that extinction event, because I would have LOVED a follow up where they realized too late that their refusal to budge an inch had doomed their entire world(considering we’re not shown a single person from their world beyond Timicin having even a hint of doubt about what they’re doing, I don’t have a lot of sympathy for them). And worst of all, they’ve got me AGREEING WITH LWAXANA TROI!🤬(I’m partially kidding. But when Lwaxana is in an episode and ISN’T the most infuriating/annoying character by a mile, you know they’re pretty awful). Sorry for the long rant, but it’s a rare episode that gets me actually feeling angry when I watch it. (Side note. We may not see Tenicin again, but we’ll see a lot more of one character…or at least their actor…in the future)
Todd “Canuck” Schmuck
2024-11-03 18:54:52 +0000 UTCYour comment on the mirror sean made me remember. For just a second you can see a camera boom reflected in it. Got this from a book called Nitpickers guide to TNG. There is a version for TOS also. I don't know if they are still in print. If you can, check them out.
Keith S
2024-11-03 18:54:42 +0000 UTCCome back and revisit this episode in 20 years or so, I think you'll appreciate it even more. When the time comes, you may come to feel it's not an obligation, but an act of love to care for your parents. That said, you're not the only ones who took notice of Michelle Forbes performance.
Mark Chrisco
2024-11-03 18:53:49 +0000 UTCL'waxana is not one if my favs but I like her in this one. Another great guest star David Ogden Stiers.
T’Pynyn of Vulcan
2024-11-03 18:46:29 +0000 UTCFor those not in the know, David Ogden Steirs was also an accomplished classical music conductor. He lived near me in Oregon and conducted numerous orchestras around the area. He was extremely talented and very much a gentleman. When we lost him a few years ago, it took me back because I always felt his talents were unappreciated. Love seeing him thrive as Timicin.
Column Meanie
2024-11-03 18:41:11 +0000 UTCPerhaps we should think of some MASH episodes for them to watch.
T’Pynyn of Vulcan
2024-11-03 18:39:35 +0000 UTCI'm glad that you picked up on the sort of Lwaxana arc that's been building up over the Lwaxana episodes. And that is that the underlying reason for most of her behavior in these episodes, is that she's the type of person who absolutely NEEDS a man in her life. That's what makes her happy. And she assumes that's what makes everyone happy. That's why when she can't have a man herself, she tries to live vicariously through Troi to make sure she has one. She obviously has standards in who she'll choose though, for either of them. We saw this in Haven and Menage A Troi. If you've ever seen The Golden Girls, she's very similar to Blanche in this regard, and in her flamboyant personality. I'm assuming that despite the very confident, commanding, and exotically expressive nature she has, underneath it all she's been very vulnerable ever since her last husband, which I assume is Troi's father, died. Since then it's like she's been trying to fill that void with another special person. And she's scared because she doesn't know if she ever will. So it kind of makes sense to me that she fell in love with Temison pretty quickly. She's been actively looking for love like that for a while, and she's going to find it wherever she thinks she sees it. Even though Manhunt was basically Betazoid menopause, I think we saw what she's always subconsciously doing. Constantly sizing people up as potential mates. I say this because I've done the same thing myself. She's just looking for a quality guy that she can be a supporting wife to. Temison checked all the boxes for her. That's why it's so heartbreaking once she realizes that he's going to die. It like she finally found what she had been looking for, and what she has desperately needed this whole time, only for him to be taken away from her. Only for him to die just like the last man she truly loved. It's like reliving that pain and loss and void all over again, and knowing that she's going back to that feeling of loneliness and uncertainty, not knowing if he was her last chance. That's why she says "I just can't understand why the universe would bring me to him like this only to take him away!" For her, he was like an answered prayer to something she'd needed for so long. But then she had to lose it again after having just grasped it. Very tragic experience for her character.
BN13
2024-11-03 18:38:55 +0000 UTCIt’s a silly thing to complain about for sure.
Column Meanie
2024-11-03 18:36:51 +0000 UTCGood review, gentlemen. A couple of in-universe notes: Jovet and a couple others already noted that the Prime Directive pertains to interference with the natural order and development of a planet. Particularly if they're not a part of the Federation, Starfleet shouldn't be interfering with a planet's laws, traditions, society, etc. even if they seem barbaric. And regarding falling in love in a day ... yes, this seems silly in the context of the show. But in-universe, there are days -- if not weeks -- of travel happening. They picked up Timicin on Kaelon II, then had to travel to the Praxillus system for the helium infusion test, then had to travel back to Kaelon II afterwards. Of course warp travel times are a function of the writing and story needs in each episode, but at Warp 5 (which is the speed Picard ordered them to head back to Kaelon II), even if Praxillus was only 10 light years from Kaelon II, that journey would take 17 days using the TNG warp scale. And we don't know how long they were at Praxillus setting up for the test, either. I think it's safe to assume that -- in universe -- this episode took place over a period of 40 days at least.
Jesse Manning
2024-11-03 17:55:56 +0000 UTC1:05:50 But you two both like soap operas. Characters on soap operas change lovers faster than parents change diapers. The passage of time is never literal on this show unless they say it is. This episode took place over at least three days, probably more. The first night, Lwaxana asked Timicin if he wanted to stay and pork and he says no. The second night, it's implied they did pork since he woke up with her watching him.
Jovet
2024-11-03 17:51:41 +0000 UTC"Quick, efficient exposition." Lwaxana is aboard. Brace yourself!
Jovet
2024-11-03 17:47:41 +0000 UTCRemember that Timicin is not human, and we are not privy to how their species ages.
Jovet
2024-11-03 17:46:16 +0000 UTCI was thinking the same and I'm a lot older than you lol. And the Timicin character was almost exactly the opposite of Winchester in MASH. Great performances in both.
Dale Williams
2024-11-03 17:44:47 +0000 UTCI wonder if Timison's people had Sandmen? Surely there would have been an enforcement branch for those less dedicated.
Owen Madden
2024-11-03 17:34:49 +0000 UTCThis is a great take - and saves me typing out something similar..!
The Ninth Doctor
2024-11-03 17:34:20 +0000 UTC48:40 But he can't continue his work, his planet cut him off.
Jovet
2024-11-03 17:32:34 +0000 UTCYou didn't think of 'Logan's Run'? Oh yes, you hated it of course.
Sam Langanke
2024-11-03 17:30:08 +0000 UTCOne part that I think you’re not getting. The log entry in the opening is not a spoiler. It’s a twist to the usual “captain’s log” entries that start each episode, and it’s completely meant for laughs. Whereas each log is heavy with exposition, Troi’s log is to the point: “my mother’s on board”. That singular statement shows Troi’s hesitation and exhaustion, and it’s followed immediately by a hilarious bit of Picard showing he’s trying to hide. It’s funny, but I think your over analysis helped you guys miss the humor. Rules are meant to be broken if they are done well, and that includes your boys’ rules about how characters are introduced.
Column Meanie
2024-11-03 17:29:36 +0000 UTCI honestly thought this one would grab you guys more.
Phil Ken Sebben
2024-11-03 17:19:53 +0000 UTCApology accepted
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-03 17:19:30 +0000 UTCNah I should judge quicker
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-03 17:17:46 +0000 UTCA terrific review guys. I love how this episode tackles not just what we the audience would deem the absurdity of the “Resolution”, but also forces us to look at it from the perspective of the society. Timicin’s daughter’s reaction “how dare you criticize my way of life and my beliefs” is powerful and a strong reminder that regardless how enlightened we may feel about OUR way of life, respecting beliefs means we have to allow people their right to theirs. As a teen I was bored by this episode. However I’ve probably seen it around a dozen times and every time it gets better, and every time it hits a little closer to home. It definitely asks questions about how society treats their elderly, specifically the concept of sending them away to “places to die” (ie: assisted living and nursing homes). Having recently moved my stepfather with Alzheimer’s into assisted living, I’ve quickly discovered how lacking services can be, and how little families care for their elderly parents/grandparents, rarely visiting them in these places. Our society in many ways has created this problem. Our medical science has extended life, but our society hasn’t caught up with how to help those of advanced years have the fullest life possible. I’m on Lwaxana’s side here: it is the kid’s responsibility to be there for our parents when they can no longer care for themselves. We don’t have to like it, but much like parenting, caring for our aging parents has both challenges and rewards. And it’s also ultimately the right thing to do.
Column Meanie
2024-11-03 17:15:49 +0000 UTCI knew David Ogden Stiers from the MASH tv show. There's a memorable episode and a great performance where his character got addicted to speed.
Brian Sartini
2024-11-03 17:15:25 +0000 UTCMash is excellent fun btw (the first few seasons)
Phil Ken Sebben
2024-11-03 17:15:05 +0000 UTC25:45 The Prime Directive applies to any meddling with the natural order and development of a society.
Jovet
2024-11-03 17:10:06 +0000 UTC18:55 It's funny, I forgot how ridiculous the science in this is. The whole experiment they're doing isn't possible as presented, and even if it were, it wouldn't play out in minutes.
Jovet
2024-11-03 17:03:19 +0000 UTCI've always assumed that the actual Resolution suicide is probably done by drinking some sort of painless potion and then just go to sleep and die. Anything more violent likely wouldn't be a "beautiful" experience for the onlookers. Probably.
KatWithAttitude
2024-11-03 17:01:16 +0000 UTC14:25 "Thank you for the drinks."
Jovet
2024-11-03 16:58:10 +0000 UTCRegarding the Prime Directive, they've never given us the specific text or anything, but what's established is that they simply can't exert undue influence on ANY planet's culture. In the case of prewarp societies, any contact at all counts as undue influence.
Steve Boshear
2024-11-03 16:47:47 +0000 UTCSuch great performances in this episode. If the concept of being euthanized wasn’t part of this episode, it would have been pretty boring. There isn’t any action in this episode, so it could have really suffered. The “twist” honestly saved it.
Chris S.
2024-11-03 16:46:43 +0000 UTCI'm assuming both of you are at an age where you would have seen the animated Disney Beauty and the Beast. David Ogden Stiers was the narrator and the voice of Cogsworth the clock.
KatWithAttitude
2024-11-03 16:27:29 +0000 UTCI always balked at episodes like this and Dalen Quaice? Because they would apply modern day metrics to characters in the 24th century when Doctor McCoy lived to be 130 something? And admiral Mark Jameson.. why Limit Timicin so “young” when there is the medical possibility to live to be 100? Of course they are aliens and maybe less advanced than the federation?
Philbot
2024-11-03 16:22:00 +0000 UTCSometimes maybe Josh should just wait a little bit before judging.
Sam Langanke
2024-11-03 16:16:25 +0000 UTCThey don’t watch the teasers like we did. They go in blind and like surprises. That being said I think Troi’s line was intended to be comedy.
tyranusfan
2024-11-03 16:16:25 +0000 UTCYes, Plus this wasn't a federation planet so their influence is limited.
D Jammers
2024-11-03 16:13:28 +0000 UTCThis was a good reaction, even though the discussion was rather short. I enjoy when when you guys seem like you're super uninterested and unengaged and then the shoe drops and the story just pulls you back in. Also, I enjoyed that most of the questions you had ("can she not read him" as an example), were answered by the episode itself shortly after, most of the time your questions are left up for us to answer.
THE LORE!!!
2024-11-03 15:40:10 +0000 UTCI’m sorry but I don’t understand the complaint about Troi’s opening line. it’s not like Lwaxanna’s presence is a plot twist or an act break reveal. We know from the teaser she’s going to be in this episode. She literally shows up a few seconds after the line.
Matthew McKinnon-Gray
2024-11-03 15:38:20 +0000 UTCIts a A-B episode! Great Discussion
Josef Nitervol
2024-11-03 15:33:36 +0000 UTCI like this one, it’s probably the best use of Lwaxana Troi so far and the set up is for a silly story but it’s so much more.
Darren Seal
2024-11-03 15:29:01 +0000 UTCGreat episode. Others covered how I feel about it so I'll just add, Troi's opening line is to set up the visual gag of Picard exiting the turbo lift with a hint of hesitation. And it landed cause ya'll laughed at it.
Anthony MacEwan
2024-11-03 15:20:29 +0000 UTCThis might be the strongest character arc of any episode. Where Luwaxana begins the episode and where she ends is so stark and so excellent. In the last scene, she even asks permission to disembark, rather than demanding O’Brian transport her. It’s a beautiful transformation and a beautiful episode.
Benjamin Azure
2024-11-03 15:01:33 +0000 UTCDavid Ogden Stiers hitting it out of the park as a guest. And Lawaxana being used so effectively for a story. Feels like a throw away episode that becomes so deep out of nowhere.
Julie Carter
2024-11-03 14:48:21 +0000 UTCHa “Star crossed lovers,” appropriate
tyranusfan
2024-11-03 14:30:57 +0000 UTCToday's update is a non-crew centered but still the post must be done. The sex scoreboard Riker 9 Troi 3 Data 1 Picard 1 Worf 1 Geordi 1 Broccoli 2 i Chief 1 Keiko 1 Extras: Lwaxana 3 new +1 She strikes again. I think it interesting that this ep seems so morally straight forward but to me it is not. Our society would never interfere with a person by forcing them to end their life to avoid what happens to many from old age, BUT we do interfere by not allowing a person the choice of ending it to avoid the loss of mind that can happen. Just saying.
Prof Moff
2024-11-03 14:21:40 +0000 UTCIt's a deceptive episode, in so far as it looks like it's going to be Lwaxana shenanigans but then it takes a hard turn into looking at morality and tradition, as well as care of the elderly. Majel absolutely nails the turn, especially at the end. No "Jean-Luc" but "Captain."
Mara
2024-11-03 14:15:23 +0000 UTCThe prime directive also means no interfering in the politics or internal development of societies without permission. So the federation cant go around imposing its morals on planets something Kirk didn't care about at all). Originally, the prime directive was mainly a plot device as to why the enterprise couldnt just do anything they wanted but it was much more developed in TNG.
paultardspambot .
2024-11-03 14:14:07 +0000 UTCThis was the turning point for Llwaxana Troi's character, methinks.
Darin Wagner
2024-11-03 13:58:06 +0000 UTCshes flirting
paultardspambot .
2024-11-03 13:56:13 +0000 UTCSolid episode that is underrated by many. Definitely does a good job with the guest actors which can be very hit or miss in this era of Star Trek.
Spencer Loften
2024-11-03 13:39:51 +0000 UTCWith two cool Easter eggs included. (Easter egg spoiler?) 1, Timison’s display screen in engineering was analysis 4077 2. Maybe a stretch, but when Timison was ranting in frustration that his world wouldn’t connect see his work, the camera angle was very reminiscent of the scene when Col. Potter was painting Winchester’s portrait and the major ranted about something or other, resulting in the portrait of him in rant mode.
Paul Hess
2024-11-03 13:33:58 +0000 UTCDavid Ogden-Stiers is good in everything I’ve seen him in. As with Jean Simmons last episode it’s a credit to the show that they get so many great guest actors. Majel Barrett just gets better and better as Lwaxana Troi.
Paul Rymer
2024-11-03 13:28:38 +0000 UTCp.s. My birthday at the end of this year. Guess how old I’ll turn? 😰
Paul Hess
2024-11-03 13:28:02 +0000 UTCThis is a personal favorite of mine, but I can’t watch with you till later tonight. I’m resisting the urge to jump to the end to see your ratings! Highlights: Excellent guest performance by David Ogden Stiers. Lwaxana finally getting a real role instead of being a season 1-ish laughing butt of jokes. And somehow Majel Barret is able to pull of that substance while still honoring all of her prior character development but molding it into something sensible. Star Trek doing a great job presenting societal issues in a respectable and somewhat balanced way. Michelle Forbes short but powerful scene as Timison’s daughter, along with the most ridiculous scifi hairdo ever. As an actor she was able to rise above the ridiculousness of her hairdo in the same way Majel Barrett was able to rise above the ridiculousness of her character’s prior established typecast character development.
Paul Hess
2024-11-03 13:26:36 +0000 UTC“I’m ngl, they had us in the first half.” And then TNG hucks another bedrock morality question at our faces, for which I actually appreciate Lwaxana’s big emotional portrayal.
Ross Townsend
2024-11-03 13:24:24 +0000 UTCFor anyone of a certain age (I’m 48) the “guest player” is so well-known from MASH that it takes a few minutes to adjust.
John M.
2024-11-03 13:10:51 +0000 UTC
