UNCUT - The Drumhead (TNG S4E21) | Star Trek Journey 202
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Comments
reminds me of the man about to take office. gross.
ET
2025-01-02 01:49:36 +0000 UTCI love how in the preview they didn't have any action shots to do the cheesy slow motion on, so they did it to the shot of him doing his famous facepalm. Chef's kiss.
EnigmaticPenguin
2024-11-06 01:28:29 +0000 UTCShot and chaser
Tony B
2024-11-04 04:43:59 +0000 UTCI think this which hunt theme was probably inspired by the McCarty hearings during the Cold War, but later the 9/11 hearings kinda got like this. Picard's final warning is very true.
Leyton Jay
2024-11-04 00:52:52 +0000 UTC@Derek Orr How ironic that I used to think we shared many sensible views about TNG and its episodes.
Jovet
2024-11-03 16:18:41 +0000 UTCShe's not doing a very good job, is she? Considering how shitty just about everyone from "Starfleet Command" (e.g. the highest orders of The Federation) have been.
Jovet
2024-11-03 16:14:57 +0000 UTCGreat ep but the best Picard ep is yet to come. :)
Dabo Master
2024-11-03 03:21:05 +0000 UTCI have only one critique to this episode, and it's trivial. I did not like the camera angle in the ending sean it was looking down at the observation windows. You could see nothing but stars. You should have mostly seen the top of the saucer section. Oh well, the episode was great so it doesn't really matter.
Keith S
2024-11-03 02:19:33 +0000 UTCMight have been mentioned and I’m too lazy to check but I find the behind the scenes stuff fascinating for this one. Studio wanted a cost saving clip show, instead we get this - well written, thought provoking idea
Darren Seal
2024-11-02 21:29:09 +0000 UTCShe was a fan :)
Darren Seal
2024-11-02 21:27:35 +0000 UTC"The road to hell is paved with good intentions" This is how you write a TV show with a great message, current writers could learn a lot.
Darren Chapman
2024-11-02 19:51:02 +0000 UTCThe other 2 are "Yesterday's Enterprise" and "The Best of Both Worlds, part 1". I often switch back and forth between Measure of a Man and BoBW1 as to which is my absolute favorite.
Collin Freeman
2024-11-02 19:34:47 +0000 UTC@startrekborg It's my favorite version of the book, as well.
Collin Freeman
2024-11-02 19:33:01 +0000 UTCWas she a fan, or did she get talked into it by her grandkids? Did she know Patrick Stewart?
Collin Freeman
2024-11-02 19:31:27 +0000 UTCI'd also hope Tarses didn't actually get booted from starfleet, especially given it could be argued that he didn't technically lie, as Romulans are essentially the same species as Vulcans.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-11-02 19:10:34 +0000 UTCI think it comes from people who've never seen or experience the abuse of power that prosecutors routinely engage in. And good for them honestly, innocent souls. But those who know, know that Satie's portrayal was very tame next to the backroom tyranny that occurs daily in DA offices and courtrooms.
Paul
2024-11-02 19:01:12 +0000 UTCDamn dude, very well said. You succinctly described exactly why I adore this episode in a few sentences.
Clyde Frog
2024-11-02 14:30:59 +0000 UTCI don't get the 'it wasn't realistic' criticism. People act far worse than this all the time. The only difference is there usually isn't a Picard like figure to set them straight, or when there is they are often ignored in favour of the loudest voice ranting about the latest source of outrage. This is one of my favourite episodes. It serves as a reminder to not only question the facts, intentions, and convictions of others, but to also question all those about yourself. It shows how easy it is to go from being the good guy to being the bad guy. It's honestly scary. I also love that this is another example of a story that can be consumed on it's own while also drawing heavily on the show's overall continuity. It references Conspiracy, Sins of the Father, Best of Both Worlds, Data's Day, as well as all the instances of Picard breaking the prime directive.
Paul Noad
2024-11-02 01:29:44 +0000 UTCAn Episode a timely today as it was in 1990 when phrases like enemy within and enemy of the people are being thrown about we can see how freedom can hang in the balance, it also harkens back to the Mccarthy Hearings in the 50's one of the top ten episodes of the series.
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-11-02 00:32:40 +0000 UTCAgreed - 'Oppenheimer' also showed this with the security clearance renewal for JRO, as well as the cabinet nomination committee for Strauss...
The Ninth Doctor
2024-11-01 17:17:46 +0000 UTCI knew someone would bring up this crap. Please do not bring up current events here. Looking at it objectively both political parties are guilty. One thing I enjoy about these guys is they do not inject politics into it. Please refrain.
Monty Crawford
2024-11-01 16:59:37 +0000 UTCThis episode demonstrates well the dangers of letting fear and suspicion spiral out of control. Through this obsessive investigation, we see how easily a quest for security can turn into a witch hunt. And we see the many perils of self-righteous zealotry. A poignant reminder that leaders have a responsibility to safeguard their people from abuses of power.
lightxheaven
2024-11-01 16:06:49 +0000 UTCI'm already clearing my calendar for it 😉
The Ninth Doctor
2024-11-01 15:39:21 +0000 UTCDidn't know this... Nice!
The Ninth Doctor
2024-11-01 15:35:48 +0000 UTCWHAT! I’ve visited Federation Headquarters a few times at that mall but was unaware of this. I’m gonna go check it out
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-01 14:58:55 +0000 UTCSpeaking of Cedar Point, did you guys know they're preparing to move Neutral Zone Studios (the Star Trek Continues sets) to the Sandusky Mall? There's an Indiegogo fundraiser called Mission Sandusky going on right now to finance the move.
James H
2024-11-01 14:46:12 +0000 UTC"Required reading at the Academy" ... take a drink.
James H
2024-11-01 14:40:19 +0000 UTCTimothy you dropped this 👑
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-11-01 13:56:17 +0000 UTCMy theory is it's Ken R's alt account🤣
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-11-01 13:27:58 +0000 UTCHad no idea you guys were in Ohio. Go Bucks! If you’re a football fan and Ohio State Fan. Ha.
Glenn Zigli
2024-11-01 13:17:09 +0000 UTCWhoever keeps voting "E" reminds me of this guy- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUj1Ug-4MTA
Regan
2024-11-01 13:11:37 +0000 UTCYes, exactly.
Forbidden Donut
2024-11-01 12:13:21 +0000 UTCGetting Jean Simmons in the show was a major coup, she was Hollywood and UK acting royalty, it would be like getting Dame Judy Dench to have a part in Trek now. Spencer Garrett said that IRL she was hilarious, foul-mouthed and a chainsmoker - nothing at all like Satie.
Paul Rymer
2024-11-01 09:23:56 +0000 UTCOh, it's the "Let's fucking GO!!!" episode. 🥁 Drumroll, please...
Billy T. Riker
2024-11-01 08:22:49 +0000 UTCEasy S on this one for me. I get a few people have their criticisms or think it's overrated, but I agree with Josh that it doesn't need to be clever to get it's point across. The lessons this episode has to teach are straightforward, and relevant to all eras. A timeless masterpiece and a top 5 episode of TNG IMO. One criticism I see a lot is that Satie goes from calm and composed to full Greta Thunberg at the drop of a hat. I don't actually have an issue with this. First I think the cracks were starting to show even earlier, and she was just able to maintain composure until she felt cornered. But also the argument is that she's this respected and very accomplished investigator who could never possibly do what she did in the episode and therefore her obsession and outburst are bad writing. I think there are 2 answers to this. First is "don't meet your heroes", as sometimes these people we put up on pedestals were pieces of shit all along. Maybe she was always an ends justify the means type and cared more about convictions than integrity, and until then she had enough legitimate targets to hide that. And second, maybe she once was just as principled as Picard, and perhaps over time seeing how the Conspiracy aliens or Romulans infiltrated Starfleet, her perspective became warped and she started seeing enemies everywhere. As for Picard's 9 prime directive violations, reddit came up with a list of candidates. Justice, Pen Pals, and Who Watches the Watchers are the clear PD violation episodes. Angel One, Symbiosis, The Hunted, The High Ground, Devils's Due and First Contact are listed as "debatable". Angel One did come pretty close to interference, or rather allowing interference. Symbiosis and Hunted funny enough saw the PD being used as a shield to NOT interfere, but in a way that interfered in order to effect a desired result. The High Ground was unintentional, but they did get caught up in an internal conflict. I would challenge Devil's Due as Ardra was a con artist and they abided by the legal code of the planet, and First Contact was about first contact, but Riker's discovery before the official meeting complicated that. Code of Honor, Reunion, and Transfigurations are listed as "stretching it". Code of Honor saw them playing by the local rules, so I'd dismiss that one, but perhaps the fakeout death and power shift would be a violation. The Klingons asked Picard to be the arbiter of succession, so I'm not sure that counts. Transfigurations did see the Enterprise unwittingly help set in motion a huge societal shift, so that's valid. I would also submit Up The Long Ladder and Legacy as possible PD violations. They both involved human colonies, but ones not part of the federation and as such they might be covered by the PD. I would agree that this is one of the best Picard episodes, and it's a great showcase of his integrity and his principles. While the "first link" speech is not his own, it's clearly something that very much defined his character throughout his life, and it's forever burned into my memory. Character defining episode for Picard, and a fair bit of growth for Worf as well.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-11-01 08:21:21 +0000 UTCI did not
Ee'char
2024-11-01 07:07:55 +0000 UTCI'd still take Berman's stewardship of the franchise over what came later, but he definitely made some really bad calls in his time, Ron Jones' firing among them.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-11-01 07:01:27 +0000 UTCwhat are the other 2?
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-11-01 06:56:55 +0000 UTCI don't really disagree with that. The problem is with witch hunts that even if you do find some genuine bad actors, a lot of innocent people end up condemned along with them. When you find legitimate information of foreign interference, by all means act on it, and if it's a big problem, devote more resources to looking for that proof. But if you have to make up evidence so you can say you've caught someone, and you punish an innocent person, well you're not making the country safer by doing that. In fact it does the opposite, because now you become a country that tramples on the rights and freedoms of your citizens, in order to avoid becoming a country that tramples on the rights and freedoms of your citizens. It's like the mindless "you have freedom of speech but not freedom of the consequences of speech" arguments. Oh so I'm free to do 100kph in a 70kph zone but I'm not free from getting a ticket?? Well then I'm not free to speed am I? If consequences are attached to an action it's not free. Yet you'll see people advocating for restrictions on "hate speech" or "misinformation/disinformation(TM)" without ever stopping to think about who determines what gets banned, and what happens when they start to label views they just happen to disagree with as one of those terms. Now what does that have to do with witch hunts? Well both things IMO boil down to "doing things the right way" in society and not taking the easy/lazy path. Yeah, there are holocaust deniers out there, or people who are genuinely racist, and they make no secret of the fact. And yeah, there are people spreading tons of rumors and conspiracies. It's super easy to just say "well the government should ban these things so these people don't spread fear and ignorance in society", ignoring the dual dangers of opening the door to their own rights being eroded, and also of simply pushing those discussions underground where those ideas can fester and grow instead of withering in the light of public discourse. If someone is saying something that's hateful or untrue, that's not for the govt to ban or punish, it's for regular people to disprove and disavow.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-11-01 06:11:23 +0000 UTCCould also be 23rd/24th century medical technology helps a bit. Little bit of genetic tweaking to make everything work.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-11-01 05:48:38 +0000 UTCI'd have to agree with James here. The episode had already made a point of saying Simon was innocent until proven guilty, and the explosion being an accident reinforced that point by showing they had in fact been going after an innocent man when there was still legitimate suspicion of sabotage. If the issue remained unresolved it would have undermined the other, more important message that witch hunts and those who carry them out aren't going to be stopped by little things like proof of innocence. If they'd gone that route, some would walk away from the episode thinking Satie was right and her tactics were justified, which is contrary to the whole point of the episode. Like you said, it's not complicated, but it doesn't have to be.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-11-01 05:40:07 +0000 UTCI believe this is the zenith - the pinnacle - the Absolute Best of the "Star Trek Goes To Court" across all the television incarnations.
Owen Madden
2024-11-01 05:08:54 +0000 UTCWell said 👍
Owen Madden
2024-11-01 05:04:09 +0000 UTCThat's one of my favorite older movies, and my favorite of that book.
startrekiborg
2024-11-01 04:38:54 +0000 UTCThis is a superbly written and acted episode, but I'm not into courtroom drama stuff like this.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2024-11-01 03:42:34 +0000 UTCWell, first of all, I believe some of them were foreign spies and/or working on behalf of enemy governments. I don't think I have to explain why spies infiltrating and undermining the government and non-government institutions through sabotage, disinformation, undermining the democratic government, disruptive cultural influence, etc. is problematic. Secondly, communism historically leads to the trampling of individual rights, a totalitarian concentration of state power with strict and brutal control over a population, which is ran by inefficient and slow-to-adapt central planning that ultimately doesn’t know how to run an economy, inevitably destroying it, causing major shortages in jobs, supplies, goods and services, which leads to poverty, homelessness, starvation, and death. Meanwhile, those running the show severely suppress dissent, criticism, and opposition to the state, typically leading to an increase in incarcerations, spying on their own citizens, encouraging the people to spy on one another on behalf of the state, pushing heavy government propaganda in schools and in media, and often the government ultimately imprisons or kills those who won’t play along. In addition, there can be a bloody civil war waged to get these monsters in power, such as the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, for one example, or the Russian Civil War that began in 1917, and possibly another war to finally get them out later down the line, if they’re lucky. North Korea, unfortunately, has not been able to escape this hell. I also left out the part where they’re known to deliberately erode and attempt to completely destroy whatever that nation's previous culture and/or religion was, so that everyone can 'move forward' with a new and 'improved' society that is 'unburdened by what has been’ so that from now on, particularly the new children raised in it, won’t know the old ways and are only taught the new ways that worship communism and obedience to the state. It’s an evil, vile thing, that is by no means harmless, nor is it interchangeable with ‘Democrat’ or ‘Republican’ or whatever. As I said before, this really is beyond the scope of this comment section, but communism deserves all the contempt one can muster, so I felt it necessary to say this in response to your question. It’s evil, evil shit. Seriously, go research the living hell that the people of North Korea have to endure under communism up to this very moment. I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy!
Forbidden Donut
2024-11-01 03:03:07 +0000 UTCI might agree with you on those points, but I overall I still rate Measure of a Man higher on my scale. It's 1 of my top 3 all-time favorite TNG episodes. Both give Patrick Stewart a lot to work with, and boy, does he deliver in both cases.
Collin Freeman
2024-11-01 02:59:58 +0000 UTCShe is a remarkable actress. Loved her ever since Great Expectations.
Collin Freeman
2024-11-01 02:56:24 +0000 UTC"You come at the King, you best not miss"
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2024-11-01 02:37:24 +0000 UTCExcept if there was no evidence it was sabotage and no evidence proving it was an accident ....that does not mean it was sabotage at all......there is no evidence I murdered or did NOT murder JFK.....so we will never know for sure.....
Derek Orr
2024-11-01 02:31:33 +0000 UTCDepends on how you define serialization...we began this episode with tieing the admiral back to season 1 conspiracy plot after all
Derek Orr
2024-11-01 02:27:56 +0000 UTCit would arguably be MORE effective
Derek Orr
2024-11-01 02:27:00 +0000 UTCwhat an interesting discovery for the next generation to make....
Derek Orr
2024-11-01 02:24:00 +0000 UTCIndeed the stoking of fear and paranoia is rising and has been since 9/11
Derek Orr
2024-11-01 02:22:14 +0000 UTCReplace communist with socialist or right wing or Green Party.....the answer remains a big "so what?"....of course there are people with a diverse set of views and backgrounds in all parts of society....
Derek Orr
2024-11-01 02:20:30 +0000 UTClol and the scary part its her breakdown at the very end...that is what trump and his like do, except they now just dismiss facts, embrace the BS and it works for them.....MAGA people in that courtroom would not get up and leave, they would cheer FOR her...
Derek Orr
2024-11-01 02:16:51 +0000 UTCas in they did not like the first half? or you did not?
Derek Orr
2024-11-01 02:11:41 +0000 UTChmmm she is not so much religiously about the faith of keeping the federation clean, its more simple basic human ego, striving for relevance and validation at all costs....remember she has no friends...is retired and was given this one more chance for glory.
Derek Orr
2024-11-01 02:10:53 +0000 UTCI almost think Picard should welcome new recruits to the ship by saying "If you want to be part of breaking all the rules you just learned, you've joined the right ship."
SnabbKassa
2024-11-01 01:56:13 +0000 UTCHappy Friday 😊. Target Audience! https://youtu.be/bl5TUw7sUBs?si=4yT85aN2gH-iBopI
Kicked In The Dicebags
2024-11-01 01:28:53 +0000 UTCAt almost 35 mins or so Alex says to Satie, "your father would be ashamed of you" 🔥🔥🔥
James Bottas
2024-11-01 01:26:36 +0000 UTCThis was Ron Jones final score for the series.
Chris S.
2024-11-01 01:18:31 +0000 UTCthat's mixed species, not mixed race.
SnabbKassa
2024-11-01 01:05:15 +0000 UTCThis is Michael Dorn's personal favorite all time TNG episode.
penoyer79
2024-11-01 00:59:44 +0000 UTCyeah technobable is made up science that doesn't actually mean anythings. Stuff like the Flux Toaster dna is transmitting the time sound.
Kekkersboy
2024-11-01 00:28:41 +0000 UTCWith respect to us who have watched 850 episodes, neither.
Ryan Fisher
2024-11-01 00:27:22 +0000 UTCThere was a nearly identical quote in Buffy 'Lie To Me" from Giles at the end, though that came 6 years later.
paultardspambot .
2024-11-01 00:27:22 +0000 UTCLore might just post very early after the video comes out and has good takes. As time goes on from the initial release, people don't come back to visit the thread and like comments that have come "late". So he has good takes, posts early, gets a reputation from having been most liked before, and who knows maybe has some friends who all like each others comments.
paultardspambot .
2024-11-01 00:25:35 +0000 UTCnah, most races will still mostly breed with other members of their own race, the mixed race people are a small minority and having a mixed race child (humanoid races) usually requires some technological intervention.
paultardspambot .
2024-11-01 00:22:33 +0000 UTCRomulans have a longer life span then humans though not as old as vulacans. Just because the Romulan Empire and The Federation hadnt had formal contact for a while doesn't mean individual romulans didnt get around the galaxy.
paultardspambot .
2024-11-01 00:20:27 +0000 UTCWorf's speech isnt technobabble. I think you guys misunderstand what "technobabble" is. What worf said was perfectly understandable and coherent. "Technobabble" is a bunch of sciencey sounding nonsense that fills in for plot explanations. Voyager specifically was known for horribly abusing technobabble and coming up with "scientific" sounding solutions that were just nonsense.
paultardspambot .
2024-11-01 00:15:29 +0000 UTCThe scene where she "drops her mask" is evocative of the "have you no shame?" speech that was the nail in the coffin for Joe McCaryth and the communist hunts.
paultardspambot .
2024-11-01 00:10:56 +0000 UTCkeep in mind, Sati described the proceeding as a "hearing" not a trial, exactly so she could get away with stuff like that, but Picard said nope, youre lawyering up.
paultardspambot .
2024-11-01 00:01:04 +0000 UTCMy least favorite thing about this episode is how easily Picard triggered Satie to hang herself. It should have been a lot harder.
Aramis Calcutt
2024-10-31 23:58:50 +0000 UTCmy strong impression was the episode was saying there was no conspiracy, Jedan acted alone and around the same time there was an accidental explosion whose cause was subtle and took time to determine. Tarsus was just someone who had lied about his heritage on his application and happened to be one of several medical technicians who administered Jedan's injections. It strikes me how well this is done, as its both possible to see why someone might look at that and think there has to be something fishy going on, but on the other hand, if you anyone looks hard enough, they will observe some pattern that they presume to be meaningful if they start with the conclusion and work backwards to fill in the evidence. This is in fact what "conspiracy theorists" do by definition (and yes there are sometimes real conspiracies, but conspiracy theorists were generally people who see conspiracies as the most likely explanation for everything.
paultardspambot .
2024-10-31 23:57:19 +0000 UTCthe lying tactic occurss all the time in police investigations, but in a trial, the process of discovery happens first, meaning all the evidence that will be introduced at trial is known to both parties and their lawyers. The "surpise evidence" you might see in court-room drama hasnt been a thing since a supreme court ruling in the earlier half of the 20th century. So if a lawyer asked this question, the other lawyer would object to referring to evidence not in the record and the judge would sustain the objection and either give the other attorney a severe warning or censure them.
paultardspambot .
2024-10-31 23:52:47 +0000 UTC"I'm genuinely evil" There are a few, actual psychopaths who take enjoyment from the suffering of others, but thats rare
paultardspambot .
2024-10-31 23:45:13 +0000 UTCI agree with you, Phil. I don't really care for this one, either. Other than the excellent acting. It is difficult for me to reconcile her apparently excellent and outstanding career with this farce of a witchhunt. Obviously there is something new wrong with her, and that aspect is not explored.
Jovet
2024-10-31 23:39:22 +0000 UTCIt's a really promising technology. Much more promising than the holographic hard drive I've been waiting for 30 years on now.
Jovet
2024-10-31 23:36:21 +0000 UTCI used to think how silly to imagine real people behaving this unreasonably. But now in 2024 it seems perfectly on target. Just go to any school board meeting!
Paul Hess
2024-10-31 23:35:26 +0000 UTCThe conjured conspiracy (should have) died when the investigation proved that the dilithium chamber failed on its own—there was no sabotage. The legal system truly fails when evidence is ignored and biases are blindly prosecuted.
Jovet
2024-10-31 23:34:59 +0000 UTCThat being said, it's quite likely that she wasn't always like that, and has developed an undiagnosed mental illness.
Jovet
2024-10-31 23:30:27 +0000 UTC@Greg Quinn @Paul O'Neal Do donkeys and horses seem closely related? Because their cross, mules, are almost always sterile. Because horse and donkey chromosomes are just incompatible. It doesn't matter whether they have a common ancestor, distant or not. While there is nothing wrong with scientific license in science fiction, it's important to remember that chocolate milk does not come from brown cows.
Jovet
2024-10-31 23:28:33 +0000 UTCThe ultimate “when they go low, we go higher”
Column Meanie
2024-10-31 23:22:20 +0000 UTCWitch-hunts are not a good thing. But it's not paranoia if they're really out to get you.
Jovet
2024-10-31 23:21:58 +0000 UTCNo, they won't.
Jovet
2024-10-31 23:19:54 +0000 UTCThis is one of the most important episodes in the entire series. I see Admiral Satie as basically an Inquisitor, trying to keep the Federation clean and weed out heretics who may be disobeying the "faith", whether that be from violating the Prime Directive or otherwise. Anyone who believes in something so strongly that they might allow the ends to justify the means can fall into the same trap that Satie and Worf did.
SuicuneSol
2024-10-31 23:13:46 +0000 UTCreminds me of Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men; once he's caught in a contradiction, the façade comes crumbling down
Ee'char
2024-10-31 23:00:07 +0000 UTCWhile I predicted that you would love this episode, upon watching it with you, the first half was REALLY NOT all that. But I did love how Picard just sat there during Satie's meltdown, as if to say "see how I'm not rising to this?"
Ee'char
2024-10-31 22:56:51 +0000 UTCMeanwhile who has ever worked in a large organization and seen anyone like Picard or Juror number 12 who tries to influence the larger group against whatever decision has already been made just gets written up as a problem employee and slowly shown the door? Drumhead and 12 Angry Men are entertaining but don't mistake them for what really happens.
Alan Thompson
2024-10-31 22:55:04 +0000 UTCthey were referring to the gilworm conspiracy from "conspiracy"
paultardspambot .
2024-10-31 22:46:42 +0000 UTCThere was a wonderful plot thread for a few episodes of The West Wing about this
Paul Hess
2024-10-31 22:32:50 +0000 UTCFound the Romulan collaborator. /s
SuicuneSol
2024-10-31 22:10:29 +0000 UTCSaruman about Theoden of Rohan
C
2024-10-31 22:09:07 +0000 UTCMy favorite example of foregoing a principle to achieve your own desire on the national scale is assassination of foreign leaders.
Geoffrey Linehan
2024-10-31 22:05:14 +0000 UTCyup!
Evan Guthrie
2024-10-31 21:39:35 +0000 UTCHe did the music for the Starfleet Academy game by Interplay in the mid 90s, and also came back for the Family Guy cliffhanger "Stewie Kills Lois" - using a subtle tweak of the Best of Both World music 😉 https://youtu.be/dtZ2S2gWngo?si=RPTQRP7LIiXf9TSr
The Ninth Doctor
2024-10-31 21:32:12 +0000 UTCSaruman, right?
The Ninth Doctor
2024-10-31 21:30:42 +0000 UTC"lesser son of greater sires" is a quote from lord of the rings
Evan Guthrie
2024-10-31 21:23:05 +0000 UTCLike they somehow had DNA in common from some...common ancestor species perhaps? From a very long time ago? Hmm...
Paul O'Neal
2024-10-31 21:18:20 +0000 UTCGood science fiction is timeless.
Michael Metrick
2024-10-31 21:07:31 +0000 UTCI absolutely love Satie's silent rage/composure loss/overwhelming emotion at the end of the trial. It's not massively over done, she has just the right amount of sheer emotional turmoil visible and it's perfect. The lingering shot from high as everyone leaves the room - and her - isolated is great.
Mara
2024-10-31 20:55:36 +0000 UTCFarewell Maestro Ron Jones. It was following this episode that he was stupidly, foolishly, and unjusticely fired. Yeah, fuck Berman and his wallpaper music.
Column Meanie
2024-10-31 20:40:50 +0000 UTCGotta remember: serialization is not a thing in TNG. This had to be wrapped up in this episode.
Column Meanie
2024-10-31 20:35:12 +0000 UTClove the idea of romulans pretending to be vulcans to get laid in the federation
Dark Kronis
2024-10-31 20:33:42 +0000 UTClove how Picard flips the trial at the end she was on trial and found guilty
Dark Kronis
2024-10-31 20:28:32 +0000 UTCBecause she still has a moral compass, admiration for her dad and feels shame. How many of those you mentioned lack of any morality at all?
Sam Langanke
2024-10-31 20:24:51 +0000 UTCThere has to be science in the fiction. Star Trek gold standard.
Sam Langanke
2024-10-31 20:21:46 +0000 UTC59:45. The scene in Picard’s quarters was not meant to suggest that Picard was going to use this knowledge against Satie. They were genuinely getting to know each other, and it served to lull the audience into thinking she’s trustworthy.
Column Meanie
2024-10-31 20:21:25 +0000 UTCASCAB
Steven Linden
2024-10-31 20:17:19 +0000 UTCOne more proof that Star Trek always was relevant as a commentary on society and always will be.
Sam Langanke
2024-10-31 20:12:13 +0000 UTCNot enough credit is given to Jean Simmons, an award-winning actress who does a great job playing the unchecked prosecutor. Not to mention, you'd never be able to tell that, underneath that makeup, she's really the lead guitarist for KISS. ;
startrekiborg
2024-10-31 20:00:22 +0000 UTCThis episode tramples on the service and sacrifice of all who are working hard to keep the Federation safe from Romulan subversion. How can anyone rate this with anything else but an F? Have you people been brainwashed already? You all see no problems with their agents freely moving around on our ships, with little surveillance, bombing our warp cores? If you love the Romulans so much, go pack your bags and move to the other side of the Neutral Zone already!
Yorin
2024-10-31 19:54:58 +0000 UTCEmotionally Measure of a Man means more to me but in actuality and execution drum head is the better courtroom episode
harrypothead42024
2024-10-31 19:54:25 +0000 UTCJean Simmons was a HUGE Trek fan. She had a group of fans who gathered every week with her to watch the week’s episode.
Column Meanie
2024-10-31 19:47:46 +0000 UTCBy the end of the second season of Deep Space Nine you will start to understand every word of the technobabble and what it's supposed to mean you will never tell your non Star Trek fan friends
harrypothead42024
2024-10-31 19:47:27 +0000 UTCIYKYK!
Stephen Wright
2024-10-31 19:37:01 +0000 UTCIt's been years since I've been there myself, but last time I was there Steel Vengeance had just come out and I thought that was fantastic.
Forbidden Donut
2024-10-31 19:35:59 +0000 UTC👀
James Bottas
2024-10-31 19:25:00 +0000 UTCI just don't agree the episode would have been as satisfying if left open to the possibility that there was a saboteur who got away with it. Not every story has to be approached as 'Anything that can be left grey, must be left grey".. if you wanted an episode that ended with Picard lamenting to Worf that the cost of upholding their principles is that evil prevails sometimes... well, that sure is one way to do it. Instead, they wanted a more positive reinforcement for those principles
James Bottas
2024-10-31 19:14:26 +0000 UTCKinda reminds me of that BSG episode. But ofcourse this came first.
startrekiborg
2024-10-31 19:14:05 +0000 UTCUnless all the species are somehow actually closely related....
Greg Quinn
2024-10-31 19:12:45 +0000 UTCScooby Do villains aren't real. But there are thousands of Satie's right now, in DA positions across the country. So, at least for me, because it's entirely topical to our own existence, it hits hard. And there's something cathartic about seeing Picard smugly destroy her, a kind of justice rarely seen in our own society... hard not to relish in her defeat.
Paul
2024-10-31 19:06:55 +0000 UTCThe first part is pretty good but the second half you know what’s going to happen and are just waiting for the case to fall apart. Satie turns into a Scooby doo villain by the end, I feel like Picard comes off as smug and arrogant. I’m not saying it’s a bad episode by any measure but I feel like it’s extremely overrated and certainly not one of my favorites. It’s a solid B tier for me.
Phil Ken Sebben
2024-10-31 19:01:44 +0000 UTCI got paid a day early and I just signed up for the $10 tier at the midnight hour. Are we close to 200?!?
Blane Mather
2024-10-31 18:53:32 +0000 UTCCurious, why not?
Paul
2024-10-31 18:51:45 +0000 UTCI think a lot of people like it when an episode or movie is left up to interpretation. I don't think either way is objectively right or wrong, just preference. I like both styles. Depends on context.
Paul
2024-10-31 18:51:08 +0000 UTCGlad to see my comment be a topic of conversation. Even though I wasn't crazy about the episode, I'm always excited to see you guys love something. And, boy, was it sorely needed after the last episode.
Deep Red
2024-10-31 18:44:53 +0000 UTCThey make some of the best episodes for sure
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-31 18:42:50 +0000 UTCRIP Jeri Taylor. Beyond just the episodes she has writing credits on, she was a major force behind a lot of the success of the latter half of TNG's run.
Steven Linden
2024-10-31 18:42:31 +0000 UTCWow, very interesting. I was not aware of that
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-31 18:41:59 +0000 UTC"..........before our new tiers begin tonight at midnight eastern!" Cue Borg Engaged by Ron Jones, from Best of Both Worlds Soundtrack!
James Knight
2024-10-31 18:38:58 +0000 UTCI am, but that’s besides the point. Even without the proof it wasn’t the kid, she’s still in the wrong. Ends don’t justify the means. That’s the entire point we talk about in our discussion
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-31 18:38:04 +0000 UTCYeah I agree
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-31 18:35:05 +0000 UTCJeri Taylor's writing in this episode was great. It's the only episode in which she is the sole writer that I think is great, however. I know she recently passed and I'm sure she was a very nice lady, but I can't call myself a fan of her writing except here.
Darin Wagner
2024-10-31 18:34:23 +0000 UTCWhat’s your favorite coaster?
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-31 18:34:02 +0000 UTCPatrick Stewart proves he's the GOAT in episodes like this. Respect.
Collin Freeman
2024-10-31 18:29:13 +0000 UTCRegarding the idea of shades of grey with the topic of witch hunts, this goes beyond the scope of a comment section on a Star Trek reaction video, and I'm certainly not a historian, but from what I believe I've learned in the past, it's my understanding that McCarthyism did uncover at least some truth to there being communists infiltrating American institutions and/or the government. If that is true, then I have to admit there is some grey to the concept, if or when there really are at least some 'witches' to be found. That having been said, I still despise witch hunts in principle, and it's still unacceptable to destroy innocent lives in the name of finding the real bad guys.
Forbidden Donut
2024-10-31 18:28:37 +0000 UTCYou think the episode would've been as effective if it could be argued that the admiral was in the right? Well I guess you're the Star Trek scholar and expert screenwriter 🤷♂️
James Bottas
2024-10-31 18:28:24 +0000 UTCWasn't expecting Maverick to get a mention here but as a massive coaster nerd and TA fan, it was great to hear that in the video!
Steven Cressler
2024-10-31 18:27:01 +0000 UTCNow just HOLD ON a second here. Frakes directed. Go look up Ann Shea on google and see the photos. 100% there's deleted scene material where Riker and Ellen Nore have some alone time in his quarters.
Matt Newmark
2024-10-31 18:26:06 +0000 UTCYou know... The S are really flying this season (and for good reason) - but it certainly sheds light on why poorly rated episodes are poorly rated - because people are looking back on them with episodes like these as THE BAR. I mean how can you not rank a "meh" episode C or lower when there are 10-15 S TIER episodes in a single season?
Matt Newmark
2024-10-31 18:22:02 +0000 UTCI think I would enjoy this episode more if Picard had just said right to Admiral Satie's face something along the lines of: You are intentionally ignoring the rights and freedoms guaranteed to people in this Federation. What you're doing here is immoral, antiethical...etc etc.
Jovet
2024-10-31 18:11:19 +0000 UTCGot it. I don't remember every detail, so probably true. It's an episode obviously written by Trek nerds who love it enough to make fun of it.
Joe Concepts
2024-10-31 18:11:10 +0000 UTCNo it didn’t
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-31 18:08:27 +0000 UTCAfter this discussion, I'm absolutely dying to see the season tier ranking.
THE LORE!!!
2024-10-31 18:08:25 +0000 UTCTimely episode. Scary.
Collin Freeman
2024-10-31 18:08:08 +0000 UTC1:15:15 You haven't yet seen "the whole show" so you're excused from deciding this right this moment.
Jovet
2024-10-31 18:08:05 +0000 UTCI believe there are some Star Trek 6 references in it so we are waiting a bit to watch it
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-31 18:06:15 +0000 UTCSomething in this discussion made me think if that Star Trek themed "Futurama" episode. I don't know if you guys have seen that episode or even that show. But I think you'd appreciate it, and by now I think all the references in it are about things you've seen.
Joe Concepts
2024-10-31 17:59:13 +0000 UTC1:06:45 A reminder that is not scientifically realistic for different species to be able to produce offspring, and overwhelmingly unlikely that any such offspring would be anything but sterile.
Jovet
2024-10-31 17:58:06 +0000 UTCThis remains one of my favorite episodes and favorite among Picard's speeches. RIP Jeri Taylor (1938-2024), who passed away one week ago today. An Indiana University Bloomington alumna, she donated her Star Trek scripts and related collectibles to the campus's Lily Library.
Linda Stricker
2024-10-31 17:57:02 +0000 UTCUsing DNA or RNA to encode binary data is already in development as it is very space efficient!
Jovet
2024-10-31 17:55:30 +0000 UTC1:03:30 That's an interesting point, Josh! 🤔
Jovet
2024-10-31 17:54:36 +0000 UTCI used to believe that Ron Howard could not make a bad film. He finally did. Spoiler alert: Frakes has some clunkers, too.
Jovet
2024-10-31 17:53:05 +0000 UTCI didn't like from the start how Satie and Sabin are complimenting Worf in a very patronizing way. As if to say, "You're very lucky to have our blessing."
Joe Concepts
2024-10-31 17:51:24 +0000 UTCAdmiral Satie is a disgusting, flawed person.
Jovet
2024-10-31 17:50:05 +0000 UTCI think the point to have Geordi and Data confirm it was an accident was to have that moment where Satie says, "Well that doesn't mean there's not a conspiracy, anyway." The idea being to give the audience a moment where we realize something is wrong here. I can see the benefit of keeping things less definitive than that, but I think they wanted to make sure we were on Picard's side, becoming suspicious of these people.
Joe Concepts
2024-10-31 17:50:03 +0000 UTCSo, to kind of book end my comment on the last episode, this might be a good time to tell you that Jeri Taylor co-created Voyager and was the show runner for the first four seasons. :)
Forbidden Donut
2024-10-31 17:49:11 +0000 UTC"Not that Gene Simmons." Jean Simmons said that in the '70s she would sometimes receive fan mail for Gene Simmons by accident. She didn't always realize it until she got to a line in the letter where the person said, "I love it when you spit blood."
KevinH
2024-10-31 17:47:37 +0000 UTCSeason 4 coming at you hard with the S tiers.
EnigmaticPenguin
2024-10-31 17:46:37 +0000 UTC52:38 Didn't do what? Pass information to the Romulans? The result of the episode strikes me pretty clearly as the Klingon guy acted alone.
Jovet
2024-10-31 17:41:58 +0000 UTCYou do have fire takes, The Lore!!! (but yes, being first or one of the first comments people see is going to result in high Likes) ;)
James Bottas
2024-10-31 17:41:22 +0000 UTCThis episode was written by Jeri Taylor, who died a week ago. RIP.
Tom Occhipinti
2024-10-31 17:39:27 +0000 UTC48:30 It isn't so much "evil" as it is delusion and ignorance.
Jovet
2024-10-31 17:37:46 +0000 UTCThe hatch explosion being an accident and not sabotage had to be clearly stated. That's not something they could leave grey because then whether the admiral was in the wrong or not would be left grey. S tier episode
James Bottas
2024-10-31 17:37:45 +0000 UTCI don't know if you know TA but the idea of storing information in biological sequence data is actually a real thing. Course, DNA is more stable than protein sequences so they use that instead. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/dna-the-ultimate-data-storage-solution/
Kristina Weber
2024-10-31 17:36:06 +0000 UTCReally loved the reaction. Just like the conclusion of this episode, no conspiracy involved in my takes getting liked, I just show up early and try not to say something too stupid.
THE LORE!!!
2024-10-31 17:33:44 +0000 UTCPerhaps my favorite reaction and discussion video. You guys gave excellent points.
Christopher Dorn
2024-10-31 17:28:21 +0000 UTCMy #2 most overrated tng episode. I’m not a fan.
Phil Ken Sebben
2024-10-31 17:24:34 +0000 UTCI'm sensing that the scores for this episode are in the 2nd word in this sentence. Banger week for strong episodes.
Matt Newmark
2024-10-31 17:23:52 +0000 UTCYour best discussion to date!
Josef Nitervol
2024-10-31 17:16:29 +0000 UTCAs a kid, when this aired, I didn't understand or like this episode, but I have the same feeling about it now that you do. Amazing writing, great speeches, important message.
Joshua Langweil
2024-10-31 17:14:53 +0000 UTCI'm looking forward to revisiting this one. At least one TREK fan friend of mine rates it as his favorite. I don't. I just remember feeling that Jean Simmons' character was sadly cartoonishly "McCarthyish" and overdone. He didn't feel that way. Oh, well. I'll rewatch it with you all and see how I feel...
Max Shenk
2024-10-31 17:02:57 +0000 UTCshocking I am not married, isn't it.
Prof Moff
2024-10-31 16:56:07 +0000 UTCThere is no sex score board update for this ep. This ep is so moving, so meaningful, so well acted, it seems wrong to update the sex scoreboard or even talk about sex at all. In fact it seems inappropriate to even make jokes at all………………. Which is why that is exactly what I will be doing. Has there ever been anyone that was less sexy or make you think less of sex than the female assistant. I mean WOW talk about automatic ball shrinking. Hey the Betazoid guy was someone that drained the sex drive from you too. That guy made Riker think about being a monk. Now the Admiral on the other hand mmmm. Early on she had a kind of, experienced, wild in bed sort of vibe. A, sleep with the school principle’s wife sex appeal, though I could not pull her. (A dean Wormer’s wife vibe from Animal house for those that get the reference). BUT the female aide. Good god, could her hair but done less sexy? (NO). She had no sense of humor, a face that only a ..… well no one would want to kiss. So uptight if you shoved a piece of coal up her ass, you’d get a diamond in an hour. Walking around taking notes on everything you do to be used against you later. Never forgetting anything you say or do and always taking things in a bad way. All in all she screamed one word ………………..WIFE…………. and is there anything less sexy than that word.
Prof Moff
2024-10-31 16:55:45 +0000 UTCThis was the last episode with Ron Jones' music.
Anthony Goodwin
2024-10-31 16:54:49 +0000 UTCAs far as her outfit I find it interesting and yet distracting
Josef Nitervol
2024-10-31 16:49:12 +0000 UTCits in my top ten of best episodes for sure. Jean Simmons is one of my favorite actors was in great movies like, Spartacus, Elmer Gentry etc. She apparently loved the show and wanted to be part of it somehow. I could listen to her voice all day
Josef Nitervol
2024-10-31 16:47:20 +0000 UTCMan i’ve been slacking. Meant to comment on this episode prewatch but somehow i lazied out of it. Great episode! I love Picard court episodes.
Connor Fallon
2024-10-31 16:42:38 +0000 UTCHaving been very vigilant watching out for this 😅
SinocTheHodgeheg
2024-10-31 16:17:38 +0000 UTCAha, this is an absolute classic. I am hopeful you guys are going to dig this one.
Menty
2024-10-31 16:14:57 +0000 UTCDamn good episodes, that moment where Picard face palms then has the speach gives me the feels. That face palm is where the single hand Picard face palm meme image is from if it wasn't obvious.
Murtaugh
2024-10-31 16:13:17 +0000 UTCPicard's speech is the star of this episode, but I really enjoy Admiral Satie's stories about growing up with her father and debating her brothers. And of course the Worf subplot is awesome. I look forward to watching this after disposing of all the neighborhood ghouls and trick or treaters this evening
Paul Hess
2024-10-31 15:58:06 +0000 UTC
