UNCUT - Qpid (TNG S4E20) | Star Trek Journey 201
Added 2024-10-27 12:00:12 +0000 UTC
Comments
Ok I'm WAY.. WAY behind on watching this one. I've got the episode paused at the moment and Geordi is tuning his mandolin and I'm already CRACKING TF UP. Even writing this comment LMAO... Oh God I can't wait to see this reaction...
Matt Newmark
2024-11-16 19:37:57 +0000 UTCThis one's an A for me. It's just dumb fun. Worf's lines alone do it for me. I'm a bit surprised you guys didn't enjoy this one for the sets, classic trek fight, and the zaniness. But hey, I get it, if you don't like Vash it's gonna be a tough sell. And to be honest, it's hard to buy Picard would ever get romantically involved with a criminal. But I dunno, Worf's not a merry man and that's good enough for me lol
Wrestling With Gaming
2024-11-08 05:29:32 +0000 UTCC for me. I don’t have the same issues as you have with Vash. And Picard having a terrible taste in women is believable to me.
Mel Primus
2024-11-06 01:21:17 +0000 UTCThink for me the cynical stuff is the Robin Hood framing was purely to cash in on the popularity of prince of thieves at the time
Darren Seal
2024-11-03 19:26:49 +0000 UTCThis episode for me has aged quite poorly D+ or C- and most of that is just for Worf. Still prefer this to Galaxy’s Child
Darren Seal
2024-11-03 18:29:31 +0000 UTCWhile it's not a great episode it's worth existing just for Worf's "I am not a merry man!" exclamation.
Todd Pritchett
2024-11-02 06:06:23 +0000 UTCThis episode is from 1991, when the world was full of Robin Hood mania because of Kevin Costner. I don't know if this episode was trying to capitalize on that. Not sure the timing lines up, but that movie made nearly 400 million, which was huge in 1991, esp given it's bad critic reviews. But the mass audience love it.
SnabbKassa
2024-11-01 01:03:10 +0000 UTC@BN13 The Borg have been "evolving and changing" /and surviving/ for tens of thousands of years. But that is not the kind of "evolving and changing" that I'm talking about.
Jovet
2024-10-31 18:26:02 +0000 UTCI do not believe Q is capable of setting something up in such a way that he cannot change it. He set it up in such a way that he characters have their own free will and are not bound to the whims and goals of Q himself. I reject the notion that a "god-like" being could create something that would be immune to any further god-like influence.
Jovet
2024-10-31 18:22:47 +0000 UTCMost tea is caffeinated by nature. Teas called "herbal tea" are not caffeinated because they do not contain any actual tea leaves in them. Tea can be processed to be decaffeinated just like coffee can be. I buy decaf Earl Grey tea because I am very sensitive to caffeine and try to avoid it as much as I can.
Jovet
2024-10-31 18:17:41 +0000 UTCJust want to say that I love watching this show with you guys. It's always fun and I'm so excited for you to see so many amazing episodes to come. Thanks for the good times :D
John Deadcorn
2024-10-30 23:35:32 +0000 UTCOur Public Education system blows doesnt it?
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-10-30 20:34:32 +0000 UTCI'm pretty sure Earl Grey is caffeinated. I heard someone say before that it was a stimulant. As for what Q is and isn't able to do, I like to think of where Star Trek species rank on the Kardeshev Scale. The Kardeshev Scale ranks civilizations on a scale of 1-3 based on how much energy they are able to harness and effectively control, and where they are in terms of growth. A Type 1 Civilization is able to use ALL of the natural resources on it's home planet, and has complete control over subatomic particles. The Federation is a Type 1 Civilization. Earth is completely unified, and doesn't use money because it's now a completely resourced based economy. The complete control of particles means they have things like replicators, transporters, holodecks, and FTL travel like warp drive. A Type 2 Civilization can harness everything from a star, or an entire solar system. The Borg are a Type 2 Civilization. They literally go around assimilating entire planets/civilizations/solar systems at a time. and if you listen very closely to what Locutus says to the crew in Best of Both Worlds Part 2, he actually reveals that the Borg don't view what they do as conquering. They view it as growth. Both for themselves, and for the species they assimilate. They legitimately don't understand why other species resist, because to them, why wouldn't anyone want to instantly transform into a Type 2 Civilization in a day? They actually think they are helping us, because they are helping the entire galaxy become the 3rd type on the Kardeshev scale. A Type 3 civilization is able to harness all of the energy from an entire Galaxy. Some of the god-like beings in Trek might fall into this category like the Doud from The Survivors, but there is no way to really tell. Q however, is beyond any of these. There is actually a Theoretical Kardeshev scale that takes this idea even further all the way out to a type 7. On that scale, The Q are actually a Type 6 which is insane. On this scale, Type 4 civilizations can harness all the energy in this Universe. They use that energy to no longer be bound to a physical body or to death. They can also experience time differently, or open portals into other Universes. You might be seeing some of these species pretty soon, either in Trek, or Babylon 5. A Type 5 Civilization can harness all of the energy in the entire multiverse. A Type 6 civilization can control everything in all universes AND in all dimensions, including time, and they can do this effortlessly. This is The Q. So yes, they can jump through time like it's nothing. They can also shrink down to the subatomic if they want to. The Q continuum itself is probably another dimension and/or another universe, possibly one that they created themselves. There is literally nothing they can't do. But that bring us to the Dilemma of a Type 6 civilization. A Type 6 Civilization is max growth. When you are at that level of OP, there is no more room for growth because you literally already know everything. What do you do now? Maybe you start acting like Q, where instead of caretaking the universe like you are supposed to, you start messing with things just to amuse yourself because you've gotten so bored. Because no matter what a Type 6 Civilization does, they can never be a Type 7 Civilization. A Type 7 is more of an abstract and theoretical concept. It's basically ACTUAL God, if there is such a thing. It would be a civilization so powerful, that it no longer lives IN the multiverse, and perhaps never did. Instead, it actually IS the multiverse. At the very least, a Type 7 is what created all of the multiple universes and dimensions, but it can simultaneously be both the creator and the creation. This is the idea that we are all the universe trying to understand itself, and God is the strings of energy at the center of all matter. By definition, a Type 7 Civilization is infinite growth. It grows as the multiverse grows.
BN13
2024-10-30 14:51:24 +0000 UTCThe only other character I can think of that the show oversells is Okona, and to an extent Wesley. But I think Vash is where it's most noticable.
BN13
2024-10-30 13:54:07 +0000 UTC26 episodes. that's like 2 breaking bad seasons in 1. credit to the writers for not having more duds.
penoyer79
2024-10-30 03:44:48 +0000 UTCI could never put my finger on it before, but yeah, the show tries to oversell Vash. There have been far worse guest characters, but the show doesn't try to make you think they're amazing.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-10-29 18:53:57 +0000 UTCI think I realized the real reason why I don't like Vash. As a character on her own she's fine, but she's not AMAZING! But the show keeps trying to convince us that she is, so it feels like this character is being forced down our throat trying to get us to like her when she's really just average at best. If they used her for what she actually was in other more interesting ways, she'd probably be fine. As is, she doesn't really have much point being in something like Star Trek. She feels out of place. If you want a "steals artifacts for money" character in Star Trek, you could actually do that better with a Ferengi (perhaps even a female Ferengi) who is actually written well, and she'd be a much more interesting character. Plus maybe that character could give us more insight into Ferengi culture and make them less of an embarrassment. There's lots of 3-dimensional stuff you could potentially do there. Instead, they only want a basic love interest, so she's just a random average person from today's world with questionable morals. She isn't used for anything other than the show telling us "look how amazing Vash is! Look everyone, Vash is back! Picard likes Vash! Picard thinks Vash is Wonderful!" And in the case of this episode, "See how amazing Vash is! Vash is so great, and so unique, that even Q is intrigued by her. Q is even more intrigued by Vash than by Picard. So much so that Q is going off to have adventures with her just because she's so special. Isn't Vash great?" She's getting into Mary Sue territory here. And yeah, Q would probably get bored with her after a day and a half. No TNG. I don't buy it. Can we move on to something more interesting now?
BN13
2024-10-29 15:57:42 +0000 UTCThe comments here are something else lol. The Warpspeed, Engage song sums it up perfectly. People are actually paying money to be butthurt by a reaction channel not having the reaction that they wanted them to have. And despite all of their complaints, they still keep paying money, and they still keep coming back. You know you want it!
BN13
2024-10-29 13:16:47 +0000 UTCSomebody's almost certainly said it here, but it's worth knowing: the only two actors here who were actually trained in stage swordfighting were Marina Sirtis and Gates McFadden, and here those two only got to bop people upside the head with pots.
SageGreenGoat
2024-10-29 12:30:02 +0000 UTCThere are moments later, in some series, when I really wish the guest character hadn't come back, this is so chill comparatively
SageGreenGoat
2024-10-29 11:45:31 +0000 UTCThe Borg are supposed to literally be ABOUT evolving and changing. Even they can evolve and change, they just have to do that WELL. Unfortunately, I get where you're going here.
BN13
2024-10-29 10:40:47 +0000 UTCThey did like the last Q episode, but only the half that actually had to do with Q. They didn't like the moon B plot. I think they have it a C for that reason? Actually maybe later on they changed it to a B? For some reason, everyone interpreted that as "they hated it."
BN13
2024-10-29 10:34:31 +0000 UTCAbsolutely agree
BN13
2024-10-29 10:31:06 +0000 UTCA piller of the holy trinity of E tier episodes
Phil Ken Sebben
2024-10-29 08:20:48 +0000 UTCWell she's off to more exciting adventures than Picard can give her with a guy that can give her everything which again Picard cannot. Totally outclassed!
Narnman
2024-10-29 04:14:33 +0000 UTCI'm struggling to think of one episode of ds9 that reaches the levels of cringe in either vash episodes. Coming from TNG I think they'll struggle with ds9, I did but I was glad I stuck through the first season as It became my favourite trek series.
Captain’s Log
2024-10-29 03:20:35 +0000 UTCB, bag of shit. I forgot about this and Identity Crisis, both are stains on season four.
Captain’s Log
2024-10-29 02:56:43 +0000 UTCDavid, it's... it'll be okay.
ScotchBeard78
2024-10-29 01:52:07 +0000 UTCI think having to read you bitch and moan in this comment makes us even 😏
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-29 01:42:26 +0000 UTCShe was hotter as Selar.
Philbot
2024-10-29 01:17:49 +0000 UTCSomeone mentioned it to them in the Captain's Holiday Patron Takes. Patrick Stewart wrote about it in his autobiography, Making It So: A Memoir.
David Brown
2024-10-29 00:52:10 +0000 UTCWish I'd skipped it. And I have no problem at all with nutrek. It doesn't exist in my universe, except for picard s3.
David Scudder
2024-10-29 00:44:36 +0000 UTCWatch HG again.
David Scudder
2024-10-29 00:42:46 +0000 UTCData clearly says it penetrated.
David Scudder
2024-10-29 00:39:10 +0000 UTCThey were to busy complaining to catch that important point.
David Scudder
2024-10-29 00:37:17 +0000 UTCDo us all a favor. Next time you shit all over an episode and bitch nonstop about KALAAAAAR!!! Boo Hoo!! 20 times,just don't post it and say "We hated this one and had no constructive criticism AT ALL so we're skipping it." For the first time I almost shut it off every few minutes but thought surely at some point you'd stop menstruating and start paying attention to the show. NOPE. Damn sure didn't waste additional time on the bitch sess-I mean discussion. For the record I'd rate this in the lower 25% of the entire series. I LIKE Vaush go figure. And Captain's Holiday wasn't the torture session for me it apparently was for you. I'd rate it about the same.
David Scudder
2024-10-29 00:33:29 +0000 UTCEven though Im not a Vash fan I love this episode, The crew as Robin hood and crew I love it.
Christine Ester
2024-10-29 00:08:41 +0000 UTCNot entirely true. The whole premise was an excuse to send the crew to Camelot. However ISB and Michael Piller were bigger fans of Robin Hood (specifically the Errol Flynn film) and that’s why this show exists.
Column Meanie
2024-10-28 22:59:30 +0000 UTCI love Vash and for me this is great episode. Although I did not like this episode when I was young and watching first time. Nowadays it is something like guilty pleasure.
Kimmo Siniluoto
2024-10-28 22:04:25 +0000 UTCThe nostalgia factor is huge. You have to constantly keep it in your mind but you’ll never experience it on the first watch like someone who grew up on it. Absolutely.
Ryan Fisher
2024-10-28 22:03:33 +0000 UTC@Dark Kronis The guests left because the command crew, including the keynote speaker, disappeared. @Derek Orr I agree, the NCO thing was bizarre, and it's obvious they never thought it through or exactly figure out what to do with it.
Jovet
2024-10-28 22:00:59 +0000 UTC@Ryan Fisher “It’s hard to react in 2024 to something you just saw and react like I did in 1991 without having my decades of nostalgia and period placement.” It's impossible. Watching something made in 1991 in 2024 can never be exactly like watching it in 1991. For the most part, that's okay. The wonder and adventure of Star Trek transcends decades.
Jovet
2024-10-28 21:58:38 +0000 UTC@Steven Cressier News to me.
Jovet
2024-10-28 21:53:44 +0000 UTCQ is allowed to evolve and change. He's a very special character. Antagonists like The Borg should NOT be allowed to evolve and change...
Jovet
2024-10-28 21:50:21 +0000 UTCEspecially for Doctor Who
Jovet
2024-10-28 21:30:18 +0000 UTCMaybe because you’re unfamiliar with the story of Robin Hood? Robin Hood’s men were known as The Merry men in literature.
Steve777
2024-10-28 20:48:23 +0000 UTCI did not. It came at the start of TNG from an idea of my friends and I when we watched TNG when it was on TV first run. We talked about how the 80's cut back a lot of the sex stuff ( at least that was what older teenage boys thought so there is a POV there for the time). I will continue on with the other Trek shows. Maybe my next full TOS watch (which I am due to do) I will make a count and report the findings.
Prof Moff
2024-10-28 19:17:52 +0000 UTCThey did. They just didn't love it
Steven Cressler
2024-10-28 19:05:06 +0000 UTC"I am NOT a merry man!"
Billy T. Riker
2024-10-28 19:03:38 +0000 UTCI think your criticisms of this episode are pretty fair, but I don't have the same visceral distaste for Vash or her related episodes, I just find them dull and skippable. This is a C- for me. The bigger issue IMO is the misuse of Q. Q started out as a slightly malevolent trickster god, but over time started to evolve. His recognition of Riker and later Picard being more than they appeared reshaped the character into a sort of mentor. A higher being guiding humanity on it's trek through the stars. And what do we get here? What great lesson regarding humanity's future does Q teach? "That chick you shared your captain's log with that one time on Risa, she's bad for you bro..........and also I'm stealing your girl, sucker." It's just such a waste of Q and his development over the course of the series. Also the Robin Hood elements were introduced too late to be utilized properly. I do think the cast had fun with this one, and that saves it a little. There are still far worse episodes, but they're usually at least memorable for being so bad. This one is just mediocre and forgettable.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-10-28 17:46:19 +0000 UTCNoted. A direct link would be even better, but the pinned post does help. :)
Lovok
2024-10-28 17:19:30 +0000 UTCThe pinned post at the top of our page has the links to Patron Takes for all episodes 17-26
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-28 17:13:05 +0000 UTCMaybe I'll have to give it another go when the boys get to it in a year and a half lmao.
Clyde Frog
2024-10-28 17:11:04 +0000 UTCCould never understand why people can grade so high just based on a few funny lines. To me that's worth an upgrade from E -> D, nothing more. @TargetAudience: Suggestion -- could you add a link to the Patron Takes post in every reaction video? Sometimes I want to check out everyone's takes but don't want to go searching around for the link.
Lovok
2024-10-28 17:02:39 +0000 UTCI woulda thought you’d at least like the holodeck-like feel to this one. Guess not. Worf should’ve given it a C.
Joe Concepts
2024-10-28 16:15:27 +0000 UTCLet's just reflect on the universal truths in this episode... women are trouble.
Who North America
2024-10-28 15:59:34 +0000 UTCThey did not.
Jovet
2024-10-28 15:34:03 +0000 UTCIt’s a ridiculous reason by that logic Geordi shouldn’t have his visor and Worf and Data shouldn’t be there!!
Darren Seal
2024-10-28 13:03:09 +0000 UTCthen why was the room empty all the guest should have still been there
Dark Kronis
2024-10-28 12:58:02 +0000 UTCAll this stuff hinges on whether or not you like Vash. I can see her being seen as just plain annoying, but I think their intent was the sort of old school "lady who will get you into trouble" character who clashes with Picard's serious persona. But it's possible to just not like her, of course. But I also think there's a bit of an issue here where the actor gets tired of their character being an upstanding, almost boring kind of person and pushes for having more fun.
Joe Concepts
2024-10-28 12:55:49 +0000 UTCThey definitely let him get more serious now and then, too.
Joe Concepts
2024-10-28 12:52:14 +0000 UTCNah, the reference just doesn’t mean anything to us. I guess it’s a funny line because it’s silly but not his best or even top 5
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-28 12:16:59 +0000 UTCIt wouldn’t have changed the score
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-28 12:14:40 +0000 UTCThe federation is a post-scarcity society however the general galaxy is not. So a federation citizen has access to housing, replicators, medical care, etc. But it's not like they are all billionres and can just do whatever they want. Things like intersetellar transportation or other things one might find valuable are "scarce" to some degree. It make sense that a person motivated by greed would not be satisfied with the things other federation citizens have and would want more.
paultardspambot .
2024-10-28 09:45:05 +0000 UTCThis is a great episode and the best line is Word "I am not a merry man". It's one of the best Worf lines ever.
Heather M Santell
2024-10-28 09:40:08 +0000 UTCI'd say DS9 S1 is more competent than TNG S1, but it's also more boring. S2 is noticeably improved, but still kind of mid. Pretty on par with TNG S2, minus Pulaski
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-10-28 08:47:49 +0000 UTCRemind me, did you do these for TOS, and will you for the other shows? Will we finally have a definitive ranking of which Trek show is the horniest?
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-10-28 08:39:47 +0000 UTCwait, I thought you liked the last Q episode, just not as much as the general audience.
paultardspambot .
2024-10-28 08:17:55 +0000 UTCi assume this happened in real time and the council people left.
paultardspambot .
2024-10-28 08:13:00 +0000 UTCQ set it up so he can't change it.
paultardspambot .
2024-10-28 08:00:50 +0000 UTCalso, did you say Stewart was hooking up with the actress who played Vash? Where did you get that, it wasn't on the Memory Alpha for Captain's Holiday.
paultardspambot .
2024-10-28 07:59:51 +0000 UTCOn Data- I don't think the arrow actually penetrated his skin, i would think stabbing him would break the blade. Also, Q is basically omnipotent and doesnt have a "true form" we can comprehend. I actually liked captain's holiday. I think the issues are really with the actress who plays Vash. She's not right for the part. She needs to be more a femme fatale type (and frankly better looking.) This episode is obviously camp but it isn't terrible, the problem like with Captain's Holiday is Vash. Also a bit- this was a random hookup, Vash is just using the opportunity, but the crew don't know that and apparently Q doesn't doesn't either (while basically omnipotent he isn't quite omniscient)
paultardspambot .
2024-10-28 07:57:19 +0000 UTCI'm hoping beyond hope that they're told to skip it / avert their eyes for the credits in first DS9 episode...
awktopus
2024-10-28 06:02:31 +0000 UTCBy the way, that gag with smashing the lute is a reference to the movie "Animal House". John Belushi smashes a guitar played by a douchebag, and then says..."Sorry."
Aaron Wells
2024-10-28 05:47:52 +0000 UTCThat was not Cliff Bole's finest moment. He said specifically that "women didn't fight in the 12th Century, and he can't change history," which is just wrong on so many levels. Geez, Gates McFaddon handled fight choreography on Labyrinth, we knows how swords are supposed to be handled, for crying out loud.
Ian Westcott
2024-10-28 05:47:11 +0000 UTCThis is one of my favourite silly episodes. Worf is the best in this episode. For me it's a B+ only because of Worf.
Matt Duborg
2024-10-28 05:45:10 +0000 UTCTNG has plenty of zany goofy moments, but most of them are bad jokes. At least we don't have to suffer through Joe Piscopo this time. TNG DOES sometimes do humor well, and there are a couple of funny moments here, pretty much just relating to Worf, but overall this is a pretty meh episode.
Ian Westcott
2024-10-28 05:42:08 +0000 UTCWe're at the point where Q is a silly character. At this point, de Lancie started complaining that Q had lost his edge, and some later appearances make him a bit less of a fool.
Ian Westcott
2024-10-28 05:39:41 +0000 UTCA lot of people disagreed with you on the dislike for the S3 Q episode, but I think most people will agree with you this time. Vash is just kindof a terrible character. The Ferengi from Captain's Holiday was more entertaining than she was, and that's a rarity in TNG. There are some fun things, the theme, the sets, Worf attacking boy Guy and Geordi's mandolin, but .. I remember liking this one back in the day a lot more than now. A rewatch with you was kindof painful. Some episodes are cute diversions, this was not a fun one. I ranked this B-tier, but my patron rankings are done before an episode rewatch. Definitely changed my vote after rewatching with you!
Ian Westcott
2024-10-28 05:37:58 +0000 UTCAgree with this. Next episode seems right up their alley.
Spencer Loften
2024-10-28 03:50:06 +0000 UTCBoy it's going to be interesting to see their reaction to the credits on DS9
Matthew McKinnon-Gray
2024-10-28 03:49:54 +0000 UTC2:44 " OH NO!" Yep you called it
Zack
2024-10-28 03:12:37 +0000 UTC@Steve excuse me but only SOME of his episodes are like that, but there are others with him, which the guys may or may not have seen yet, that are among the best in TNG
Vina
2024-10-28 03:07:30 +0000 UTCTo be fair, even if the title and credits didn't spoil Q's reveal, I don't think that would have affected their score much. Maybe up to a C from that? Probably not even
Paul
2024-10-28 02:49:05 +0000 UTCThat episode, I know what you're talking about, I actually really like. I know it's bizarre, but something about the vibe of it just sits right with me.
Paul
2024-10-28 02:44:58 +0000 UTCI think I've kinda forgotten how unimaginative and just bad "Hide and Q" was. I'd give that one a D—it's below average. But is the next Q episode as bad as that one, or this one? I'll have to think about it.
Jovet
2024-10-28 02:43:25 +0000 UTChttps://youtu.be/vBe4A1pDwPI
Jovet
2024-10-28 02:37:13 +0000 UTC@Edweirdo Nah, most of this episode is comedy. Vash's entrance, Vash's surprise rapport with Crusher and Riker, Picard's subsequent embarrassment, Riker's "I'll alert the crew", Picard's ridiculous striving to maintain his image, and of course the Robin Hood fantasy, with its funny happenings and silly happenings (e.g. Vash refusing to be rescued). Even Picard and Vash's spat in their quarters is pretty funny, as the full conflict of their personalities come to fruition. The only thing particularly serious in this episode is Q's insistence on repaying Picard, and treating Picard's feelings for Vash as a vulnerability. And those serious things are the weakest parts of the episode!
Jovet
2024-10-28 02:28:45 +0000 UTC“I am not a merry man!” Should boot it up to a C. 😄. I actually enjoyed this one because it nodded to the old Errol Flynn movies I watched as a kid. Not “a” level but fun. Not surprised at your grade though. Don’t worry, Ira Steven Behr will improve.
Crankygrandma
2024-10-28 02:16:26 +0000 UTCQ and Vash have no romantic or sexual intentions towards one another. It's like moving into an apartment with someone you don't really know, but your FWB knows him, but you need a roommate.
Jovet
2024-10-28 02:13:42 +0000 UTCYes the 2004 release. What I meant was that it was not in the 1997 special edition version
tyranusfan
2024-10-28 02:12:40 +0000 UTCI think the episode title is a clever pun of both.
Jovet
2024-10-28 02:11:24 +0000 UTCQ is there to remind people to not take Star Trek too seriously.
Jovet
2024-10-28 02:08:10 +0000 UTCThere's one worse than all of these!! I almost can't wait to give my F on a SABCDE scale! LOL!
Jovet
2024-10-28 02:06:55 +0000 UTCI think you guys will get whiplash between this episode and the next one
Terminaldogma01
2024-10-28 01:58:32 +0000 UTCI don’t have a problem when someone dislikes an episode that I like. But I find it insanely annoying when someone uses random criteria to justify their opinions. I’ve never in my life heard of anyone hating on an episode because a title spoiled a plot point, nor praising it to the heights of legendary status because the episode ended “on the scene”. It’s really silly criteria and it’s wearing thin.
Column Meanie
2024-10-28 01:38:43 +0000 UTCI'd be happy to defend Superman and Wonder Woman against that argument, but it's off topic. My problem with Q is completely unrelated to that. He's just silly, and every episode written for him is silly. Encounter at Farpoint is a bit of an exception, but only because most of the episode doesn't involve him. I liked Q a lot when I was a kid because of the power fantasy he represents, but as I got older, I started skipping his episodes more and more.
Steve Boshear
2024-10-28 01:33:12 +0000 UTCQ is fine. He's in some great episodes but also in some of the cheesiest. It's hard to write for a character who is a personification of dues ex machina just as it is for infallible superheroes like Superman and Wonder Woman.
Jeffrey P
2024-10-28 01:25:16 +0000 UTCNot just TA - I was watching Jen react to The Outcast and you have to put it in context as a piece from 1991. The BOBW discussion from my memory put it in the good company of dozens of shows and serialized cliffhangers that come out every day trying to one up the last guy. BOBW was arguably first. It would be considered tame and cautious today. It’s hard to react in 2024 to something you just saw and react like I did in 1991 without having my decades of nostalgia and period placement.
Ryan Fisher
2024-10-28 00:54:01 +0000 UTCI agree with you. By far the worst Q episode. I would much rather watch Hide and Q than this. Hide and Q, as campy as it is, at least makes sense for Q's character and playing him against humanity. Plus it actually has some lessons in it, and it makes sense as part of the Q episode flow. Here Q is just a plot device to get them to play Robin Hood. It doesn't make sense for his character at all to set this whole thing up around Vash and be so intrigued by her. He cares about Picard because he agreed to be a representative of how humanity is now enlightened in the Pilot. Vash isn't enlightened at all. She's basically a common present day human. There's no reason for Q to acknowledge her existence at all unless he wanted to use her as an example of humanity's worst and how we haven't progressed at all as a species to foil Picard's example of humanity's best and showing that we have progressed. I would have enjoyed this episode MUCH more if they left Q out of it entirely and just made this a Holodeck gone awry episode or something. If it were JUST a corny episode, then it might have been fine and harmless, but as a Q episode, it's an insult, and complete waste of the Q character.
BN13
2024-10-28 00:51:16 +0000 UTCUp there with a certain Beverly Crusher episode you guys will see later as my least favorite Star Trek TNG episodes ever. I might skip this one lmao
Clyde Frog
2024-10-28 00:46:21 +0000 UTCDS9 feels like Babylon 5 to me too. And I actually like DS9 Season 1 too, probably more than most fans. I also like TNG Season 1. It's just that they are both kind of their own thing compared to the rest of the show. They use a different formula, and the characters are kind of off, but they both also set the foundation for the rest of the series. And in some cases, there's even things I like better in both Season 1s.
BN13
2024-10-28 00:32:04 +0000 UTCProbably because they were talking over the dialogue at that point.
Jill Barker
2024-10-28 00:17:45 +0000 UTCActually I think all of the remaining Q episodes are better than this one and Deja Q. And that includes one coming up that I actually personally hate, and I think it might be different than the one that you hate. I still think that one is an objectively good episode even though it's not my jam personally.
BN13
2024-10-28 00:17:11 +0000 UTCYou guys are finally old enough to be told the truth: Q sucks, and his very presence makes the show ridiculous.
Steve Boshear
2024-10-28 00:14:00 +0000 UTCyou talked about holy grail .. I think this castle set is the same set at least the same design as the set where the dude shoots the arrow
Lt Dan I scream
2024-10-28 00:13:41 +0000 UTCI think you're taking their reaction to the episode too seriously instead of appreciating all the fun in it. You seem to be complaining a lot. I think you're trying to hold up a reaction channel made in 2024 against your own personal standard formed as someone who grew up watching this show made in the late 80s/early 90s. Someone having a different experience/opinion than you isn't an "ultimate sin." By and large, fans went into this reaction already knowing that TA would likely hate it (most of them saw their Captain's Holiday reaction). Their not appreciating/enjoying an episode the same way that you did shouldn't be a factor that ruins an episode reaction. And if it does, then that's just plain silly. Perhaps your expectations are unrealistic?
BN13
2024-10-28 00:11:30 +0000 UTCThe thing about Picard is that he is in fact an edge of the bell curve example of humanity. He always got the ribbon, he won the Academy marathon as a FRESHMAN. If he wasn't in starfleet he'd legitimately be an archaeologist who does nothing but read books and contemplate history and the human condition. Most woman are going to bore the f out of him. And it's not just that none of them are smart enough, but they all just play by the rules and look indistinguishable from all the others. Yet another by the book academic, or career whomever playing the politics of their profession. Who Picard is drawn to are people who have what it takes to be unique, and still survive. With Vash, here's some other archaeology nerd who isn't afraid to play it fast and loose - she does what Picard wishes he could find a way to do. She just does it. Picard would actually have loved to take Q up on his offer to visit Tegus 3 2 billion years ago, but refuses on principal. While at the end of the episode Vash basically agrees to the same arrangement stating, "who could turn down an offer like that?" Who indeed. She is fascinating to him. Similarly, when Picard is in her room and discovers her ulterior motives, he laughs with legitimate amusement at how encourageable she was to dare to explore the ruins without consent. It's something he would never do, but here is an otherwise decent and intelligent individual who was free, unburdened by his principals that was about to do and see what he wish he could do. If Picard could negotiate a way to do some excavations he'd jump on it. Here's Vash with her own solution. And how many other women has Picard met in his life that could intrigue him so similarly? The man has been around the block, and so few women are anything like Vash.
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2024-10-28 00:02:43 +0000 UTCThey aren't familiar with the legend of Robin Hood so maybe they weren't aware his band was called "Merry Men"? 🤷♂️
Greg Quinn
2024-10-27 23:55:25 +0000 UTCMan, this is such a new concept to me. Don't get me wrong, I love praising the heck out of things I love and going in depth on the minutia. But I also love just ripping to shreds stuff I feel is bad. And that's from years of critical analysis in elementary english class teaching me that 20 some years ago.
Nolan
2024-10-27 23:51:03 +0000 UTCContrarily, I fully expected them to hate it and was not disappointed. I guess validation is validation, even if it is a hatred, lol
Nolan
2024-10-27 23:47:22 +0000 UTCNational Lampoon's Animal House
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-10-27 23:43:19 +0000 UTCI cant …the entire premise would be radically different. Nothing to compare
Derek Orr
2024-10-27 23:42:49 +0000 UTCThere plenty of comedy TNG episodes like those tos ones. Heck look at any when trois mom shows up
Derek Orr
2024-10-27 23:42:07 +0000 UTCIm pretty sure tng has more comedy episodes and comedy moments than TOS …i mean its 7 seasons vs 3
Derek Orr
2024-10-27 23:40:43 +0000 UTCMeh the officer nco thing is pretty silly and Roddenberry did want all officers at one point
Derek Orr
2024-10-27 23:39:45 +0000 UTCThey where not gone…just like in the first 2 Q episodes he put people back when they left
Derek Orr
2024-10-27 23:39:01 +0000 UTCYeah I may skip this reaction because I get enough angry watching with me and Nutrek I don't need to watch someone else do it
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-10-27 23:38:44 +0000 UTCOh yes! Opposites definitely do attract, and that's basically what we're seeing here. Artisans and Idealists actually frequently gets attracted to each other because it feels like filling in the others gaps. The Artisan likes the novelty of the Idealist's different way of thinking, and the Idealist appreciates the brazenness of the Artisan, along with other qualities that they know that they themselves lack. The problem comes once the novelty wears off and they start getting out of the honeymoon stage. These two types usually have very different goals in life, and very different core values. So once they start actually seeing the other person for who they really are, they start realizing that this isn't really the person they want to be with for the rest of their life. These are usually fun fling pairings that burn out after 2 years max if not sooner. And of course, for everything there are exceptions. There are Artisan/Idealist couples that do work out long term. They just have to work to overcome/appreciate those personalality differences which most of them won't do.
BN13
2024-10-27 23:35:17 +0000 UTCJesus. TA are pretty obviously big fans of TNG…i don’t agree with everything they do or say , but I have not really seen them hold things to 2024 standards and not 1991 standards 🤷♂️
Derek Orr
2024-10-27 23:33:27 +0000 UTCThis was a hard watch because I knew you wouldn't like it. I love Captain's Holiday and Vash, but Qpid was overall a low point despite some really funny moments with the crew. (Cmon, "Not a Merry Man" didn't get a rise from you?) The stakes were so incredibly low and the script took itself too seriously. All this just to mend a relationship? There's a ToS episode "Spectre of the Gun" that also features the Enterprise crew in a simulation playing the part of criminals who will soon be executed. That one was interesting because it involved solving the mystery behind the simulation to escape. Ironically, Q took away from the episode because you knew that with a snap of his fingers, it would all just go away.
SuicuneSol
2024-10-27 23:31:59 +0000 UTCTook you 500 times? Lol
Derek Orr
2024-10-27 23:27:31 +0000 UTCAgreed I wish things would returned to a more Roddenberry style utopian sci fi
Derek Orr
2024-10-27 23:27:02 +0000 UTCRick james?
Derek Orr
2024-10-27 23:22:50 +0000 UTCAgreed
Derek Orr
2024-10-27 23:19:42 +0000 UTCWow…tng has plenty of zany goofy moments and comedy…probably more than TOS I don’t understand how or what is cynical in the production of this episode 🤷♂️
Derek Orr
2024-10-27 23:17:39 +0000 UTCYup!! I was floored at their zero reaction to one of the most iconic moments
Derek Orr
2024-10-27 23:15:14 +0000 UTCinteresting, thank you for the explanation and the compliment. I will pay you with one as well. Yours is the only Patreon I have!
Josef Nitervol
2024-10-27 22:45:25 +0000 UTCCountless episodes so far have met the standard so I disagree that it’s unrealistic.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-27 22:26:24 +0000 UTCI think you guys really missed the salad for the leaves on this one. Jk, you guys or spot on - funny moments and wasted potential. I could like Vash as a character if they just made her a 1 time, sassy, female Indiana Jones. I'm not buying her relationship with Picard at all.
LoTeq
2024-10-27 22:14:59 +0000 UTCYou must be the only reactors in the WORLD who didn't even crack a smile at Worf saying "I am not a merry man!!". Most people say that's one of Worf's funniest lines.(btw, for the youtube edit of this, I hope your editor puts some cricket sounds along with your lack of reaction to that line XD)
GreenCauldron08
2024-10-27 22:09:59 +0000 UTCI think there is a disconnect between parts of the fandom, or any fandom, and it comes down to this line of thinking: "It's an absurd and fun, goofy episode, it doesn't have to be serious." You know what absurd, fun, goofy franchise I like? The Fast and Furious movies. Those movies are so utterly dumb. But they are well made, well produced, everyone is having fun and it's a franchise that has established itself over time as being utterly nonsensical awful popcorn flicks, it knows that's what it is and it does it well. Qpid does NOT do this well. It is half-hearted, cynically produced and does not stand up to the quality of the series it stands in. It's an episode that wants to be absurd and goofy, but can't commit because of the world-building establishing these characters and world NOT being that. So it feels disingenuous. TOS was less stoic, the crew more jokey, the production design more whimsical. It COULD get away with absurd goofiness, too an extent. "Brain and brain, what is brain!" Any Star Trek that asks me to turn off my brain to enjoy it, is not good Star Trek, IMO. TOS rarely asked me to do that in it's comedy episodes, this one does. And I refuse. I refuse to be a gawping laughing seal at something I know can and has been better. F&F is dumb and stupid and I'll sit for that ride of shovel-tainment, because it knows that's what it is and does it so well and with sincerity. I just can't with Star Trek because I know it has something serious to say, even when it's being comedic, when it's well produced. To have an episode one week tell me to engage my brain and analyze my world, then next week be told to shut it off to enjoy an episode I just find degrading. No, if it refuses to engage my brain it asked me to turn on, I'm gonna use that brain to analyze where it went wrong. Heaven help the series in an IP that asks me to do that for the whole dang show. So I'll probably never see eye-to-eye with someone who views Trek primarily through the lens of it being goofy and absurd, when for me those are the exceptions and not the rule.
Nolan
2024-10-27 22:02:51 +0000 UTCI agree that some episodes have comedic parts in them, but most of the episode is serious. Nothing is like Trouble with Tribbles or A Piece of the Action where the episode just doesn't take itself seriously.
Edweirdo
2024-10-27 22:00:04 +0000 UTCQPID, is not good it’s got some funny scenes but it’s not aged well. Hate that Troi and Crusher smash vases over the heads of soldiers as their actors were trained in stage fighting! Re DS9 and Ira Steven Behr… TNG isn’t his best work but he shaped DS9 (with Piller) into one I still love today. DS9 and TNG complement each other well offering alternate views of the universe.
Darren Seal
2024-10-27 21:51:56 +0000 UTCSame, and I think you definitely hit the nail on the head when you said that it gets better in the rearview mirror as you remember all the great moments without having to slog through the rest(Vash on the screen by herself with no recurring characters is legally a war crime).
Pokeysaurus
2024-10-27 21:45:03 +0000 UTCIt’s not that you’re watching it with a different perspective. It’s that you are holding it to a different standard that essentially makes your expectations unrealistic.
Column Meanie
2024-10-27 21:40:14 +0000 UTCWait, people LIKED this one enough to be mad at your reaction? Personally, I have to remind myself everytime I watch it that "Qpid" is supposed to be a pun on Cupid, and not the show recognizing that it's being "stupid."
Nolan
2024-10-27 21:32:24 +0000 UTCSurprising. This is exactly the sort of thing I thought the guys would love.
Aaron Wells
2024-10-27 21:26:36 +0000 UTCQ has just taken 'his' woman! They both rub it in his face hehe
Narnman
2024-10-27 21:15:31 +0000 UTCThis one in question was a train wreck. One of the hosts wasn’t present and the other one had to come on and do a damage control disclaimer because they knew it. There had been a previous episode with a dramatic reveal, and a second episode came a year later and the host predicted in the first few minutes that it would have the same exact dramatic reveal as the first episode, and when it was clear it wouldn’t, he didn’t take another note, talked over every great line for the rest of the episode, and had about ten seconds of review commentary because he barely watched it. If this one turned out to be…a future episode I won’t mention they haven’t seen yet…a really good one…they would have caught it. It was a difficult reaction to watch, just my opinion. Your point is totally well taken. In Future Imperfect they clued into Minuet faster than I did on first watch. I’m sure if they were talking all through the scene and missed Riker’s reaction I would have been irritated because that’s the fun for our side, but they swing and hit a lot more often than they miss, and like you said, you can’t control a reaction. You sneeze and miss something sometimes.
Ryan Fisher
2024-10-27 21:10:35 +0000 UTCSuzie's character was written well, with sass and brains. She could even be Worf's better!
Jovet
2024-10-27 21:09:18 +0000 UTClol
Bret Kay
2024-10-27 21:07:50 +0000 UTCI love the handmaid in Lady Marian's quarters. She was great!
Jovet
2024-10-27 21:06:23 +0000 UTCI think TNG has a fair bit of comedy, this episode being one of those. Most of the Q episodes are comedic in general nature.
Jovet
2024-10-27 21:05:44 +0000 UTC@Dark Kronis O'Brien can't be in charge. He's not an officer.
Jovet
2024-10-27 21:04:51 +0000 UTCI think you might be surprised how much opposites attract! It's not just a catchy phrase. I have no problem buying into to their FWB-ship for that reason. Would Picard and Vash last as a couple? Probably not. But the porking would be divine! Q is definitely bored. Being immortal and being able to do about anything would get boring, eventually. Immortality is a curse, not a blessing.
Jovet
2024-10-27 21:04:11 +0000 UTCROTFL!!!!
Jovet
2024-10-27 21:00:43 +0000 UTCFor me, the "worst case scenario" is reactors that don't watch the material. Something scary or intense happens and they'll close their eyes or turn their heads and look away or whatnot. That's just not what a reaction is supposed to be. For me, talking over dialogue isn't quite as bad, but I maintain that reading captions is not the same as hearing the actors deliver the lines. I do suspect second viewings of episodes are better/easier, because they actually can focus on the episode.
Jovet
2024-10-27 20:59:56 +0000 UTCWatching a reaction when you almost instantly telegraph that you’re going to hate it isn’t as much fun somehow…
Jonathan Llyr
2024-10-27 20:57:06 +0000 UTCRandom dumb cross over fact. Stewart played King Richard in Robin Hood Men in Tights. But Clive Revill, who played Guy in this episode (and at 94 is still with us) also played (well voiced) King Richard in 2012's Tom and Jerry: Robin Hood and His Merry Mouse. Useless bit of trivia...
Greg Quinn
2024-10-27 20:56:57 +0000 UTC@Raphael Gaytan @THE LORE!!! Luckily, DS9 is nothing like "Qpid". However, there are DS9 episodes I had to turn off because I will not watch them. That never happened in TNG, though a few times the preachiness did approach a fever pitch. DS9 misses the mark sometimes, far worse than TNG, in my opinion, but that doesn't make it a bad show. Suffice it to say that DS9 is not TNG, but I know which one is more my style. The wonder and adventure of Star Trek appeal to me.
Jovet
2024-10-27 20:55:40 +0000 UTCTroi and Beverly (Sirtis and McFadden) where both trained to do theatrical sword stage fighting. The only other one trained (amongst the main cast) is Stewart.
Greg Quinn
2024-10-27 20:53:16 +0000 UTCPicard just needs some waffles.
Jovet
2024-10-27 20:49:54 +0000 UTCNah.
Jovet
2024-10-27 20:49:20 +0000 UTCI agree with you. My point was that this "bad work" is what they associate with his name. So when it shows up again as a writing credit, it has to fight an uphill battle to win them over. Let's be real, they have certain opinions that are difficult to overcome sometimes . I remember when they saw Captain's Holiday, they said in the discussion Ira's take on the Ferengi was terrible and a throwback to s1. I still am having trouble processing that opinion and think that attitude can affect how they'd feel about his writing going forward. So that's where the comment came from. I honestly don't think they'd dislike DS9, but I'd be lying if there weren't some thing like Ira's name that's going to take time for them to get over.
THE LORE!!!
2024-10-27 20:48:50 +0000 UTCIt didn’t ruin the episode, it was one of the many things we didn’t like. As for us watching it with a different perspective than people in the 90s…. Yep that’s the channel.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-27 20:42:17 +0000 UTCShhhh. We’ve tried explaining this to them before but they don’t get it.
Column Meanie
2024-10-27 20:37:43 +0000 UTCHide and Q is easily worse than this, as is a future Q episode.
Column Meanie
2024-10-27 20:36:56 +0000 UTCYou guys are trying to hold up a show made in the late 80s/early 90s to a standard of shows in 2024. You’re complaining about being spoiled by a title isn’t an “ultimate sin”. By and large fans went into this episode knowing that Q was going to be in it and knowing it was about Robin Hood (most fans didn’t avoid the trailers either). You can’t blame the writers for John deLancie appearing in the opening credits (there are rules about casting that have to be followed). It shouldn’t be a factor that ruins an episode, and if it does that’s just plain silly.
Column Meanie
2024-10-27 20:34:03 +0000 UTCTo be fair TNG doesn't really represent Ira's best work. It is by far his worst IMO. He quit TNG after only a year because he said he was creatively trapped. He did great work once they started letting him do what he wanted in DS9.
Spencer Loften
2024-10-27 20:31:20 +0000 UTCStill, do appreciate that you give your honest reactions instead of pretending you like stuff when you don't.
Steven Linden
2024-10-27 20:16:43 +0000 UTCEveryone likes different things. My friends and I have made fun of this episode since it first aired. Light hearted doesn’t necessarily make it good. There are plenty of humor based episodes I love. I don’t like this one at all
Jeffrey
2024-10-27 20:03:28 +0000 UTCBro was like Leonidas in 300 seeing the sky full of arrows 💀
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-27 20:02:14 +0000 UTCSuzie is hot.
Chris S.
2024-10-27 19:58:42 +0000 UTCIt means “win” like “that’s a win” basically just a synonym for good as to where L would be a synonym for bad
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-27 19:57:39 +0000 UTCI sincerely hope we hear Alex shout and point, “Guy Sir” at some future episode for a new worst character contender, and then, as necessary, “SHOOT HIM!”
Ross Townsend
2024-10-27 19:52:07 +0000 UTCAs a psychology buff though who along with studying "real" psychology, has also studied way too many personality theories, and mainly watches Star Trek from a psychological perspective, Vash and Picard do not see each other for who they actually are. They are polar opposite Temperaments that usually don't last beyond the initial novelty stage. Picard doesn't feel like Picard when he's around Vash because when he's around Vash, he acts more like Vash, or his opposite Temperament. His actual temperament is Idealist, but Vash is an Artisan, so she brings out his Artisan side. This can be a fun way for a type to grow by exploring their opposite, but ultimately, Picard will always actually be an Idealist. Now if you are going purely in cannon, this can make sense because eventually we are shown that Picard was supposed to be a full blown Artisan in his youth, but in reality, people don't switch Temperaments like that. The Picard we see 99% of the time is an Idealist. That means he would have been an Idealist in his youth too. However, I think Patrick Stewart himself, as well as some of the writers, are Artisans which is why we get these wacky Picard episodes with Vash. Patrick Stewart might be compatible with her, but Picard is not.
BN13
2024-10-27 19:49:39 +0000 UTCDid Picard just get cucked at the end of the episode!
Narnman
2024-10-27 19:42:49 +0000 UTCConsidering everything we did enjoy in the episode came after Vash showing up and the title reveal, I’d have to disagree. People tend to look for easy ways to explain away why we don’t care for an episode instead of believing the reasons we lay out in detail in our discussion for some reason
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-27 19:39:39 +0000 UTCWhat is W? I'm not up on recent abbreviations or I'm just dense
Josef Nitervol
2024-10-27 19:39:37 +0000 UTCI am not a huge fan of Q. While I enjoy the banter he has with the crew as a plot point (perhaps Q who exception) it usually doesn't hit for me. I do however enjoy making Picard uncomfortable and struggle with letting anyone see him as just a man. C- for me, however I couldn't get rick james out of my head when q was on the couch. F yo couch, Picard! F yo couch!
Joshua Eidson
2024-10-27 19:35:55 +0000 UTCHave been kind of dreading this one, since it's one I really love and was also 100% sure you would hate.
Steven Linden
2024-10-27 19:35:49 +0000 UTCIf you look into Keirsey's Temperaments, what you are describing is Q and Vash are both Artisans. Artisans tend to value fun and adventure over everything else. Because of this, Vash liked the fun Picard she saw when they were on an adventure, but now that she's seeing the real Picard in his everyday life, in typical Artisan fashion, she's getting bored with him. Picard is actually an Idealist Temperament which is pretty much the polar opposite of an Artisan. This pairing usually doesn't mesh well romantically because these types tend to value and devalue opposite things. As a result, the Artisan eventually thinks the Idealist is too boring once the initial novelty wears off, and the Idealist thinks the Artisan is too immoral once they take of their rose colored glasses. Oddly enough though, I think Patrick Stewart himself is actually an Artisan.
BN13
2024-10-27 19:33:34 +0000 UTCExtremely common BASED take from Gates
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-27 19:33:09 +0000 UTCThe Robin Hood element was our favorite part
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-27 19:32:43 +0000 UTCI think this episode was much more amusing in its time because the Robin Hood character was not so overused yet and people had more interest in the story. I still like this episode
Atieh B
2024-10-27 19:27:50 +0000 UTCi hope O'Brien be in charge
Dark Kronis
2024-10-27 19:18:52 +0000 UTCI wanted to mention that the women (Troi & Crusher) were unhappy with breaking pots on peoples heads. While the Boys were all sword fighting.. even Geordie who I’d wager couldn’t fight a fever. 😆 Gates I believe was the most vocal about it like “Why TF can’t the girls fight?”
Philbot
2024-10-27 19:17:20 +0000 UTCActually came back two weeks ago. I left after Family and just reupped. I’ve always said you have a difficult job in that everyone wants something different and you have to be true to yourselves. The discussion after the episode was solid. Just a bit difficult to hear three minutes in that this is going to be rough and to watch along for another 39 minutes. Appreciate you guys.
Ryan Fisher
2024-10-27 19:16:39 +0000 UTCNot just the blu Ray it’s on my old dvd. 📀
Philbot
2024-10-27 19:13:21 +0000 UTCThese comments are pretty split too, I knew it’d be a divisive one
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-27 19:12:03 +0000 UTCAs two new devotees of Star Trek and all the optimism for the future it embodies…I predict you will absolutely enjoy DS9. But you may notice a few cracks in the armor, as the saying goes.
Raphael Gaytan
2024-10-27 19:11:38 +0000 UTCYou’ve been a Patron close to a year, so you know what to expect here. If you ever decide to head out the support you’ve given will still be appreciated 👍🏻
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-27 19:10:11 +0000 UTCIt absolutely is. I am just worried you guys will see the name in the credits and kind of close yourselves off from it being good. For what its worth, I enjoy dissenting opinions on episodes cause it gives you guys engagement and it's boring to be in line with the patrons all the time anyway.
THE LORE!!!
2024-10-27 19:07:00 +0000 UTCI don’t really get Suzie’s apeal at all? She seems mostly wooden, and “melodramatic” when she’s being Angry Klingon trope, or fighting with Worf.
Philbot
2024-10-27 19:01:51 +0000 UTCI would hope DS9 is of a better quality than Captain’s Holiday and this episode regardless of who makes it
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-27 19:01:23 +0000 UTCI was going to make a similar comment. Behr’s take on Star Trek in general…which sort of proudly spits in Gene’s face…is perhaps one of the reasons I was never truly sold on DS9.
Raphael Gaytan
2024-10-27 19:01:05 +0000 UTCBarclay 😆
Philbot
2024-10-27 18:56:16 +0000 UTCI think Q is mostly bored..he’s just looking for his next adventure so he’s like “I’ll travel with this idiot for a while. See how that goes..”
Philbot
2024-10-27 18:55:49 +0000 UTCIf you guys hate Ira this much, maybe DS9 won't be for you after all. Edit: I don't think they'll actually dislike DS9, I just think they might see his name and not give it a fair shake, at least at first.
THE LORE!!!
2024-10-27 18:54:52 +0000 UTCAfter seeing this episode like 500 times I’m noticing that I don’t think Vash is much of an actor. She’s pretty wooden maybe at her best when she’s being snarky with Picard. I’ve always liked this one because of Q and the silliness.
Philbot
2024-10-27 18:49:46 +0000 UTCI was hooked on a reaction Patreon for another sci-fi fandom I had a lot of nostalgic for. One of the hosts would decide in advance how a plot should go and if it didn’t, he’d crap over the episode. One week it didn’t go his way and he sat there pouting at the screen, wouldn’t react, and pissed and moaned all through the review. I canceled on the spot. Never looked back That’s the worst case scenario. I come and go with patreons based on time and to spread the money around. I watch another DS9 channel and look forward to the coverage here. I’ll freely admit I’ve had to take TA breaks in the past because the standard something gets held to in 2024 ignores where it stood in 1991, and I don’t need to listen to criticism for the sake of criticism of something I grew up on. That’s on me. You make the show you want to make. You don’t like Vash. You’re annoyed by Q. You clearly decided three minutes in you wouldn’t like the episode. You talked over Worf’s best line and best scene. That’s 100% your right. You gave us a genuine reaction. You keep doing you. How much time do I want to give and money do I want to pay to watch you intentionally not enjoy something? That’s my right to decide. I’m not where I was with the last Patreon, but a few of these and I don’t need to be here. That’s 100% my call, but given the feedback I wanted to offer mine. This isn’t a favorite episode of mine but 45 minutes of you looking angry is not how I needed to spend an afternoon. 😏
Ryan Fisher
2024-10-27 18:46:59 +0000 UTCIt is indeed not all fun stuff in our opinion. I think our discussion makes the distinction pretty clearly.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-27 18:44:08 +0000 UTC"Everything Jean-Luc does, he does it for Q." - Bryan Adams
KevinH
2024-10-27 18:37:55 +0000 UTCRobin Hood: Prince of Thieves was coming out in the summer, and some exec at Paramount must have said, "We've gotta do a Robin Hood episode! It can't miss!"
KevinH
2024-10-27 18:35:26 +0000 UTCI think I know what episode you have in mind. I hate that episode.
Aramis Calcutt
2024-10-27 18:25:24 +0000 UTCPoor Vash. Damn, guys, I get the feeling the only one who hates Vash more than you two is Patrick Stewart’s ex-wife!!
Raphael Gaytan
2024-10-27 18:22:28 +0000 UTCIn anticipation of it, actually. This aired a few months before Prince of Thieves came out, but there was already so much hype for that film that everybody had Robin Hood on the brain at the time.
KevinH
2024-10-27 18:16:57 +0000 UTCThey’ll be alright
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-27 18:11:07 +0000 UTCDid you though? You sure seemed to complain a lot even during the fun stuff. The whole episode is “fun stuff”.
Column Meanie
2024-10-27 18:10:43 +0000 UTCI think a lot of commenters are taking this way too seriously. They didn't like the episode and had some fun with it. It sounds to me like people here took that as a personal insult.
Doug
2024-10-27 18:08:05 +0000 UTCAs a kid, I always thought Vash was a cool rule-breaker and I could see why someone like the straightlaced Picard would be drawn to her. But now I can see that their relationship seems more forced and less believable. It's as if they love each other but yet don't like each other. Also, you expect me to believe Vash is so captivating that a god-like being (who also implied that he could go back in time) would want to travel around with her? Granted, they are kind of alike, but it's still a stretch. And this also kind of paints Vash in a negative light because she seemed to love Picard when he was an adventurer on vacation, or a swashbuckling hero, but when he has to be the straightlaced Captain again, she just fights with him and chooses Q who can give her adventures all the time. The Robin Hood stuff was really fun though and I agree, it would have nice to spend more time with the crew hanging out there. I also like to think that Q sent Vash's letter because he does care about Picard and didn't want to see him killed, which is nice, but the crew might have just followed Picard on their own.
Ryan Caulfield
2024-10-27 18:06:05 +0000 UTCI knew you were not going to be pleased with this one. A "meh" for me too.
Mike Rogers
2024-10-27 18:04:11 +0000 UTCalways wondered who was in charge with the entire command staff gone
Dark Kronis
2024-10-27 18:00:54 +0000 UTCI always felt that the thing I missed the most in TNG from TOS were the comedic episodes. TOS has some episodes purposefully funny (Tribbles, I Mudd, Shore Leave, Piece of the Action, etc...). TNG doesn't really have anything like that. Sometimes they take themselves too seriously. This episode seems like they may have been trying to do a comedic episodes, but didn't fully commit.
Edweirdo
2024-10-27 18:00:47 +0000 UTCDS9 feels more like Babylon 5 than TNG to me in many respects during the first season, which is perhaps why I like this season more than many fans of the show.
DG
2024-10-27 18:00:40 +0000 UTCAnd Patrick Stewart is always great playing awkward Picard.
DG
2024-10-27 17:56:14 +0000 UTCOne thought I just had: imagine this episode's narrative in general terms with the Picard/Vash relationship substituted by the Worf/K'Ehleyr one (before the latter's death of course).
DG
2024-10-27 17:48:58 +0000 UTCYes, this relationship does stress that 'fix' trait in Picard. I would say more, but SPOILER.
DG
2024-10-27 17:43:30 +0000 UTCBasically every first season of any star trek show (besides one exception) feels off balance, like it doesn't fully understand what it wants to be.
Paul
2024-10-27 17:43:29 +0000 UTCWithout giving any additional information, all I can say is that I strongly overwhelming almost zealously disagree with you.
Paul
2024-10-27 17:41:56 +0000 UTCI liked everything about this episode that didn't have Vash in it.
Saucy
2024-10-27 17:39:15 +0000 UTCThat wasn't my point, and it WAS a surprise to TA that Q was in the episode when the title and guest stars appeared on the screen.
DG
2024-10-27 17:39:02 +0000 UTC"This doesn't feel like Picard to me" You guys are blinded by who you want Picard to be and who you want to ship him with, instead of enjoying the characters for who they are. She loves archaeology, and isn't stuffy. Sure she's amoral, but she's Picard's "I can fix her". Which IS a vulnerability that blinds him. Vash is not a bad character. Her relationship with Picard is not poorly executed or out of character. You just don't want it to exist.
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2024-10-27 17:36:37 +0000 UTCHmm. I remember when this first aired - my friends and I all thought it was hilarious. I have to say, I think you allowed a couple of things to ruin the experience for you - Vash's appearance and the title of the episode. From that point forward, Vash and Q could have come on screen and s**t golden bricks and you would have still dissed it. There are plenty more episodes like this to come throughout the entire franchise, so consider yourselves warned! For me, they serve as light refreshments before the serious stuff kicks in. If you don't think too much about them, you find them more enjoyable.
Duncan McDonald
2024-10-27 17:35:15 +0000 UTCPlus aside from the Pilot, and a fantastic episode toward the end of the season, DS9 Season 1 is actually pretty rough. Some of the episodes are even on par with this. TNG feels vastly superior until the writers finally find their voice and figure out what they're doing with the show. Until then, DS9 feels like a bad TNG knockoff desperately trying to rope in TNG viewers. It's basically TNG Season 1 all over again. The episodes are fine for what they are, but not that great looking back compared to what comes later.
BN13
2024-10-27 17:33:39 +0000 UTCJosh managed to speak over the best scene in this whole episode
valen
2024-10-27 17:26:16 +0000 UTCW occupation
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-27 17:15:47 +0000 UTCThe fun stuff is what we enjoyed
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-27 17:15:29 +0000 UTC"Code of Honor" is fine.
Jovet
2024-10-27 17:14:44 +0000 UTCI doubt it was unscripted, since it's a remake of a scene from something else.
Jovet
2024-10-27 17:10:48 +0000 UTCQ's intent to show Picard his "weakness" was silly and impotent.
Jovet
2024-10-27 17:10:17 +0000 UTCEven how much I like your reactions can't get me to watch through this one
Jeffrey
2024-10-27 17:06:58 +0000 UTCI can think of others that are better
BN13
2024-10-27 17:05:54 +0000 UTCThe "surprise" wasn't that Q was in the episode. It's figuring out how he will fit into it.
Jovet
2024-10-27 17:03:32 +0000 UTCI'm surprised they laff'd at Data getting shot by an arrow more than that.
Jovet
2024-10-27 16:52:32 +0000 UTCFor an "absurd ridiculous getaway 'fun'" episode, I think it's fine. Awkward Picard is always entertaining.
Jovet
2024-10-27 16:50:50 +0000 UTCIf you know the Erroll Flynn classic Robin Hood version of 1938 which this one is based on, you would appreciate it more. Yes, it is silly, but Q is always amusing. And Vash has nice legs. For a human.
Sam Langanke
2024-10-27 16:39:02 +0000 UTCOkay, I can understand that, but was the introduction of Q in this episode really such a dumb thing to do if the audience of the time was already expecting to see him? Anyway, whatever disagreements I may have with TA's review here, I loved the reaction, despite or maybe even because of how much both of you absolutely hated certain parts of the episode. How upset would you be if Vash featured as much as O'Brien during the fifth season?!
DG
2024-10-27 16:18:33 +0000 UTCI hate bashing actors because they’re probably decent people off screen. But I dont like the actress that plays Vash. Its 2 things: They screwed up with Captain’s Holiday, and that could have gone so different and better. But if she was an irresistible actress like a Suzie Plakson (K’Lar), who was charming and seductive, then it might have been a relief to see her again (maybe). But its her. Because this episode wasn’t great, but it was fun, and the fight scenes were really good. But when she comes on the screen, I have the same reaction: “oh no, not her again”. Its amazing when a different actor takes a role how the choices they make change the character. Who could have done it better? Any ideas?
Chris S.
2024-10-27 16:16:50 +0000 UTCI have a few to catch up on before I watch this one, but all I'll say is, I've mentioned before how I found Vash singularly unappealing and, as I remember it, this episode does nothing to change my opinion of her. From M*A*S*H - Hot Lips: You think of only ONE thing when it comes to women. Hawkeye: With some women, not even ONE thing. D tier. A wasted Q episode which, as a friend of mine said, strikes me as having been written around the great Worf line "I am NOT a merry man!"
Max Shenk
2024-10-27 16:15:26 +0000 UTCOh baby, I knew this was gonna be a good one 🤣
Deep Red
2024-10-27 16:01:57 +0000 UTCThey made this episode in response to Prince of Thieves.
Column Meanie
2024-10-27 15:59:51 +0000 UTCGonna be honest, I almost stopped watching this reaction during the scene with Picard and Vash in Marion’s chambers. You guys tend to take another fun episode way too seriously. One word boys: TONE.
Column Meanie
2024-10-27 15:58:46 +0000 UTCThat’s fair, but like most of our criticisms the “at that time” reasoning doesn’t account for the frustration based in the show’s inconsistency of sometimes realizing it’s a dumb thing to do and avoiding it then sometimes pretending it doesn’t matter.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-27 15:57:42 +0000 UTCI certainly feels like it. It goes nowwhere and does nothing, except set up another episode in another series which is even more pointless.
Leyton Jay
2024-10-27 15:56:23 +0000 UTCASS. Josh, that was excellent. I almost fell off my chair!
Chris S.
2024-10-27 15:55:19 +0000 UTCAs a Florist that arrangement was terrible!
Josef Nitervol
2024-10-27 15:55:01 +0000 UTCI have faith that not all of the excitement for us loving DS9 is wrong, but we will find out
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-27 15:54:22 +0000 UTCNever liked this episode. I didn't realize this was an Ira Steven Behr / Cliff Bole joint. What the hell happened? Did they write this on a Friday afternoon real quick because the writing team to screw off to the pub?
Ca$hWednesday
2024-10-27 15:51:04 +0000 UTCnice
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-10-27 15:49:52 +0000 UTCRicky, I promise 😜
harrypothead42024
2024-10-27 15:43:15 +0000 UTCGo back to and watch the scene where Worf smashes Geordi's mandolin. Apparently, this was unscripted. Look at Beverly/Gates in the background looking surprised and trying not to break.
Turtleboy
2024-10-27 15:42:22 +0000 UTCOne of the few discussions I've stopped watching. I really would rather watch you talk about the episode you saw, not the one you think you should have.
Jovet
2024-10-27 15:39:20 +0000 UTCNot his goatee?
Jovet
2024-10-27 15:35:12 +0000 UTCHaha, a little better 😂
Ricky
2024-10-27 15:29:56 +0000 UTC🙈🙉🙊
Jovet
2024-10-27 15:29:54 +0000 UTCPlease make it stop
AzoriusMage
2024-10-27 15:28:22 +0000 UTCI've been waiting for the moment they will watch the next episode.
Ricky
2024-10-27 15:27:56 +0000 UTCYes, Patrick Stewart and Jennifer Hettrick had a relationship
Turtleboy
2024-10-27 15:21:49 +0000 UTCI think they could have started the episode with Q appearing in the hook and telling Picard he wanted to repay him, Picard telling him to go away, then introduce Vash after the hook and after the title...or just kill her off-screen.
wildhunt1973
2024-10-27 15:15:59 +0000 UTCI skipped the last two to get to this lol!!! I love Vash! It's a C Episode that's fun
Josef Nitervol
2024-10-27 15:12:22 +0000 UTCI get your response. Not having seen this episode in decades and watching it now, it doesn't hold up as well as I remembered. After watching it with you guys, I might shift my B to a C . You're right: the supporting cast moments are good and save it.
Collin Freeman
2024-10-27 15:09:11 +0000 UTCI told you guys before: Déjà Q is the best Q episode. The rest of them are meh. That one is also tons of fun.
Aramis Calcutt
2024-10-27 15:07:50 +0000 UTCRobin Hood Men in Tights is worth it.... Would love to see that on a reaction from y'all (remember the king's cameo at the end..)
Loki Incredible
2024-10-27 15:07:38 +0000 UTCYes, and for fans of DS9 arguably more important to the ST franchise than even Ron Moore or Jeri Taylor, but not Michael Piller IMO.
DG
2024-10-27 15:07:13 +0000 UTCDon't worry, apes. I predict you will LOVE the next one.
Darin Wagner
2024-10-27 15:06:06 +0000 UTC40:30 Don't get too excited there. Those pots would have done absolutely nothing to those men with helmets on. haha
Jovet
2024-10-27 15:05:58 +0000 UTCWe need to put Prince of Thieves and Men in Tights into the movie lottery. This isn't a great episode, but it is fun with the switch up and plenty of meme worthy content came from it. "I am not a Merry Man" -Worf
Anthony MacEwan
2024-10-27 15:04:43 +0000 UTCAs to Vash, I just never was that into her growing up as a character, and older me likes her even less. Not hate, but... yeah, I don't think she works very well at all, especially as an alleged 'love interest' for Picard. Though in re-watching this episode this morning, I suppose you can interpret it that Picard never did love her, just has some feelings.
Forbidden Donut
2024-10-27 14:52:40 +0000 UTCThe one bright point to this episode was probably my favorite line of Worf's: "Sir I protest, I am NOT a merry man!"
Steve Krautkramer
2024-10-27 14:52:31 +0000 UTC25:25 Yes, Q did that.
Jovet
2024-10-27 14:50:41 +0000 UTCIs this a bad time to let you guys know that Ira Steven Behr was the show runner of Deep Space Nine for seasons 3 through 7? LOL Hey, think of it this way: We've all been hyping that show up for you guys quite a bit, so maybe your expectations were starting to get a little too high. This ought to help with that! But I can't leave it at that because I love DS9, so I'll just say.... don't worry!
Forbidden Donut
2024-10-27 14:49:54 +0000 UTCThe next episode's a little better than this, I promise.
harrypothead42024
2024-10-27 14:38:45 +0000 UTC11:30 I think you two should have been more tickled about Picard's awkwardness.
Jovet
2024-10-27 14:37:05 +0000 UTCHey Joe. My first thought was no BUT you made me go back watch the first part again and WE HAVE A REVERSAL. Yes Picard is credited but not as a +1 because it is a repeat. Good job
Prof Moff
2024-10-27 14:36:45 +0000 UTCThere's actually another Q episode I think is worse than this one. I don't mind this one that much, but it's not one I would have chosen to make. This one is pretty "stu-q-pid" but it's paced well and not boring. That other one is boring.
Jovet
2024-10-27 14:31:06 +0000 UTCDid Picard and Vaush not do it at the beginning of the episode? 🤨
Joe Pail
2024-10-27 14:31:02 +0000 UTC3:15 Earl Grey tea is black tea (which can be caffeinated or decaffeinated) with bergamot oil added. (A bergamot is a kind of cross between an orange and a lemon.)
Jovet
2024-10-27 14:29:42 +0000 UTCNOT the last we'll see of Ira!!
Ee'char
2024-10-27 14:29:40 +0000 UTCI have a feeling you apes won't like this one.
Darin Wagner
2024-10-27 14:19:59 +0000 UTCI think it inevitable that the TA contrivance of surprise for TNG will often lead to to the kind of disappointment evident here at the start of the episode. Back in the day, regular viewers would likely have been aware of Q's appearance, not just from the episode title or trailer but also from the listing in TV Guide. Also, regarding the request for specific reasons to like this episode: I believe those people assigning tiers of S, A or even B above all like the character of Vash and Hetrick's performance in the role. That's my reason anyway. I would probably have been bored silly if the whole episode had revolved around Q's Robin Hood recreation, as suggested in the review.
DG
2024-10-27 14:12:34 +0000 UTCI knew you all would hate this one. This was the same year (although just a couple of months before the release of) the Kevin Costner Robin Hood. I think it was 'in the air' and they must have been trying to catch the zeitgeist or something. I personally enjoy all the little bits in it. The man who played Sir Guy, I just saw, was also the voice of the Emperor in the Empire Strikes Back . . . before Lucas replaced him.
Angelaina Marie
2024-10-27 14:10:42 +0000 UTCNot a great episode, true, but unlike Captain's Holiday which for me was just kind of meh, this one at least had a few moments that made me laugh.
Paul
2024-10-27 14:00:38 +0000 UTCOkey doke. I guess Riker at top is not surprising.
PIG
2024-10-27 13:34:35 +0000 UTCThis is the worst Q episode on TNG and the only one I don’t care for.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2024-10-27 13:23:39 +0000 UTCInteresting trivia (if no one mentioned it), Sir Guy was played by Clive Revill, who was the original voice of the Emperor in Empire Strikes Back (the hologram scene, which was retconned into Ian McDiarmid in the blu ray release).
tyranusfan
2024-10-27 13:21:47 +0000 UTCNo new + on the crew side but here is the board. The sex scoreboard Riker 9 Troi 3 Data 1 Picard 1 no new but a coming back for seconds is noted Worf 1 Geordi 1 Broccoli 2 i Chief 1 Keiko 1 Extras: I am giving Vash +2 . I am sure she bangs both Sir Guy and Q. Good for her at least someone is getting some action. The following was part of the initial post but after comments the publisher takes back all of the below clearly incorrect observations and issues a full apology to the Capt. He is not as lame as we state. ***Once again Picard misses a chance (not that it would have been a +1 since it would be a repeat). A red blooded man would have complained about archaeological theft AFTER the reunion sex. But not Picard. The unKirk decides to go solo or mono.***
Prof Moff
2024-10-27 12:50:59 +0000 UTCMoney isn't a thing in the federation only.
Ramen Nudels
2024-10-27 12:29:56 +0000 UTCStill better than code of honor
Ramen Nudels
2024-10-27 12:23:20 +0000 UTCYou had me for a second during the ratings reveal Josh.
Spencer Loften
2024-10-27 12:20:54 +0000 UTCPicard's mustache raised this episode from an F to a D
Paul Hess
2024-10-27 12:07:18 +0000 UTC
