Target Audience / UNCUT - Night Terrors (TNG S4E17)

Super late to the party here, but I learned on this rewatch that Worf's line when he's about to stab himself ("jIlujpu' jIH, Alexander") translates to "I have failed Alexander". So while Troi didn't tell him to think of Dorf, you were right that Worf was thinking about him!

Alex Buell

2024-11-05 22:40:50 +0000 UTC

Has anyone mentioned that Brian Tochi (Ensign Lin) played one of the kids in "And the Children Shall Lead"?

James H

2024-10-29 00:49:09 +0000 UTC

Would be interesting to see what the roles of any of these civilians working aboard starships are structured as.

Aaron Wells

2024-10-23 03:14:43 +0000 UTC

There is no evidence that she or any civilians are contractors

Derek Orr

2024-10-23 00:49:44 +0000 UTC

yet, hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe...?

Ee'char

2024-10-21 16:57:43 +0000 UTC

Yeah, but by the time they realized she was the only one dreaming she had had the same recurring nightmare for ten straight days. She only mentions the content of that dream when it's time to resolve the episode. It's why I gave it a "C." The whole plot revolves around Troi not sharing the central mystery which Data and Geordi would have solved in the conference room.

Jeffrey P

2024-10-21 02:41:39 +0000 UTC

How would they know that we chose a silly name like "hydrogen" for one moon circles? If you go back to "Ensigns of Command" Troi explains to Picard in a scene in his ready room about how difficult it is for two species with two different concepts of language to communicate something simple about a cup of tea.

Sherpa Jones

2024-10-21 00:57:46 +0000 UTC

Oh yea, same here. I was probably a few years older but it still terrified me.

Sherpa Jones

2024-10-21 00:50:10 +0000 UTC

Consider this: I had undiagnosed sleep apnea for almost a decade, and most days I functioned at about a third of the level of impairment that these characters display. Yes, you do get some REM sleep with SA, whereas the crew were getting none. Sleep deprivation interferes with your ability to reason, problem solve, focus on tasks, think creatively, among other things. So it is easy to say that Troi should have reported the content of her dreams, but given how the effects of this phenomenon would have started the minute they entered the system, they were all impaired enough by the time they recognized the problem that it is understandable that important details like this were passed over by everyone.

Sherpa Jones

2024-10-21 00:49:07 +0000 UTC

Couple of comments: 1) "Why couldn't he just say hydrogen?" Well, he did. "One moon circles." We have assigned hydrogen to atomic number one, because it has one proton and one electron. Helium has atomic number two, because it has two protons and two elements. But just because we call them hydrogen and helium doesn't mean another species does. They might have their own name for those elements, and perhaps they are smart enough not to call it by that name because they know another species is unlikely to understand that "hrg' shmoth-qoite" means hydrogen. Heck, they can't even say their version of proton and neutron for the same reason. So they resort to imagery that any species could understand. "Eyes in the dark, one moon circles." "Eyes in the dark" refers to the binary star system, and "one moon circles" refers to the relationship between a larger space body and its moon. The species assumes that their counterpart knows the predicament they are in, as any space faring intelligence should be able to work out these kind of problems. They relate the stuff they need to stellar bodies to keep the communication as simple as possible. Just because we hear their voices in english, it doesn't mean that they spoke english words in Troi's dream. We don't know how telepathy works, but perhaps it only transmits images that the recipient's brain turns into words in their native language. Which gives me another thought: an accurate "image" of a hydrogen atom would be difficult to communicate because the electron is actually a cloud of quantum probabilities, not a discrete particle orbiting a nucleus. So while she was able to visualize the "eyes in the dark" as the binary star system, her brain may have struggled to visualize the hydrogen atom and only the vague meaning was interpreted as a verbal "one moon circles." EDIT: Go back to "Ensigns of Command" where Troi explains to Picard how difficult it is for two species with very different concepts of communications to communicate something about a cup of tea. 2) Three years ago I was diagnosed with sleep apnea, and I am certain that I was undiagnosed for at least a decade. I can totally relate to the stress, fatigue, irritability, and cognitive struggles the crew experienced. Watching them struggle to take the next step, problem solve, or draw up the energy they need to do their task is so relatable. This is top tier acting, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of them actually were sleep deprived to help them play the role.

Sherpa Jones

2024-10-21 00:44:38 +0000 UTC

This episode would have been fifteen minutes long if Troi just told everyone what her recurring nightmare was about.

Jeffrey P

2024-10-20 03:52:58 +0000 UTC

I think what haunted me the most about this one was Troi yelling, " I have to find you! I have something to tell you!" I think I actually yelled back at the screen, "Just say it!" I also thought the "tired make-up" was done well, except for Gillespie which seemed like overkill. I give this one an A.

Kate Courtney

2024-10-20 00:34:24 +0000 UTC

This one was always S for me but that might be because I first saw it when I was 10 and those bodies sitting up have lived rent free in my head for over 30 years

Strife

2024-10-19 16:29:57 +0000 UTC

Imagine the planning on the other ship. “We need to communicate that we need hydrogen but it needs to be short”. “How about: ‘need hydrogen’”. “No...how about ‘eyes in the dark, one moon circling”

beanKounter

2024-10-19 01:19:12 +0000 UTC

It's not you. It's not me either. I'm dead

Shayds

2024-10-19 00:21:16 +0000 UTC

I love that pumpkin shirt !

AJC

2024-10-19 00:16:46 +0000 UTC

I'm thrilled you enjoyed the episode. Troi's scenes usually make viewers burst into laughter.

SuicuneSol

2024-10-18 23:40:29 +0000 UTC

Ron Jones is indeed gone by the end of this season, so enjoy his scores while you can. He did score this episode, yes.

Matt Everkoul

2024-10-18 23:18:09 +0000 UTC

this is definitely not INMHO no where near an S i'd say B and thats Pushing it. But I never liked too many of TNG's horror takes

Scarpad’s Domain

2024-10-18 22:13:38 +0000 UTC

Going off the patron tier ratings, ratings hover around B tier with a good number of As and Cs, and some S and D ratings as well. 4x18 is more weighted toward the Cs and Ds though.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-10-18 19:48:01 +0000 UTC

Really? I thought everyone liked the next one! The one after that is one of my favorites, but the next one is really really good!

Eric Wilson

2024-10-18 18:59:04 +0000 UTC

I'm not buying it, their communication was pretty detailed, just detailed to be really cryptic, like a good riddle is. Why "eyes" and "dark?" Why not "suns" and "space?" There's nothing in the episode that indicates that they could not actually convey the concepts they wanted. If they could, then Troi's attempts at communicating in the final scene were even more over-the-top boneheaded. I think it's a reach to say there's no reason why they couldn't be as detailed in a more helpful way. I don't think this is a Darmok situation, where there was an actual reason why you couldn't understand the aliens (that episode has its own issues..)

Ian Westcott

2024-10-18 18:40:49 +0000 UTC

Yeah, experimentation is great, but it is going to result in hits and misses. Which is which depends on the person. I personally rather like the next one, but a lot of people don't seem to.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-10-18 18:09:12 +0000 UTC

Yeah that’s all fair. Besides our horror bias obviously affecting our enjoyment, I have found one of the reasons I have loved this season so much is TNG so far had been within a certain box so to speak with it’s episodic plots and this season feels like they threw that all out and started trying to execute more out there and unique ideas which I’ve appreciated. This episode is yet another example.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-10-18 18:03:28 +0000 UTC

So to expand on my patron take, it certainly wasn't JUST "Troi in the void" that took it down to D tier for me. Others have pointed out the 10 Forward scene at the end as ad, and I'd agree, but there's more. The thing is, I'm not the biggest horror fan. Too often horror seems to only focus on creepy scenes and jump scares, and for me that's like eating a jar of frosting. Put it on a cake and then we're talking. I like horror elements, but there needs to be something tying all that together. The Road was terrifying, but the story of this father and son trying to survive sold the movie to me so I could enjoy the horror. Aside from that, nothing in this episode is even remotely scary as an adult past the first viewing. Even as a kid it was just moderately creepy. Fire in the Sky or the one guy ageing to dust at the end of Indiana Jones 3 gave me nightmares for months as a kid. This episode not so much. I do like the Picard/Data ready room scene, the morgue scene was great, Worf's attempted suicide was pretty good, and Riker getting spooked in his quarters was decent. But those are just some well executed scenes, and each of them has a corresponding bad scene to cancel them out. Underneath that what's the premise of the episode? I just imagine the writers in the lunch room one day and one of them is yawning and the conversation goes something like this "Didn't get enough sleep?" "I hardly ever sleep well these days." "Nightmares?" "No, not really. In fact I can't even remember the last dream I had." "You know I read one time that we actually need dreams to reset, and if we don't enter REM sleep we'd basically go insane." "Yeah? Well in that case expect me to lose it any day now." "Hey, that could be an episode. Like the whole crew starts going crazy because they can't dream." "Sure, worth a shot." So this episode is ultimately a story about the crew going insane because they can't dream, with technobabble to force them into the situation. That's the glue holding the good and bad scenes together, and it's pretty weak. If the underlying story were great, I'd be more appreciative of the good scenes and less bothered by the bad scenes. Ultimately though, I just find the final product boring. I could never fit all that in a patron take, but I hope that explains where I'm coming from giving this one a D.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-10-18 17:41:53 +0000 UTC

All the FX shots are original. The only thing that changed in the remaster was the planets, which were improved via CGI, and the occasional explosion. All the shots of Enterprise should be the original just clearer (vs SD of the 90s)

tyranusfan

2024-10-18 15:55:38 +0000 UTC

If we're addressing the scenario as if it's reality and not just a tv show, the aliens were very different from us, as shown in the brief glimpse of the kind of ship they flew. No doubt their broken communication was limited by how much "English" they could get from a Betazoid mind, going insane, then apply it to what they are trying to say telepathically in a dream. "Eyes in the dark" and "One moon circles" makes perfect sense over saying "Send hydrogen, people on the other side of this rift." Try asking anyone on this planet for hydrogen, when they don't speak your language.

THE Fans

2024-10-18 13:59:18 +0000 UTC

Yeah, Troi's dream wasn't literal or a real environment. It was a dream, just one "arranged" by the alien's communication.

Jovet

2024-10-18 13:30:49 +0000 UTC

Now wondering if Worf had that dagger to his chest when Picard called the senior staff the the conference room… 🧐

marty63026

2024-10-18 11:22:04 +0000 UTC

I think because Troi is half human she could better ‘hear’ the alien and keep it together better than a full blooded Betaziod. She actually ‘saw’ one in her dream, not sure the other guy could.

marty63026

2024-10-18 11:17:01 +0000 UTC

Not sure but I think that’s from another episode. They do that in the trailers some times. For the wounded they flipped a shot of Maxwell with his phaser drawn when O’Brien entered his ready room, weird

marty63026

2024-10-18 11:12:41 +0000 UTC

I like this episode even more after watching it with you guys. I’d have to bump it up to an A tier now, more enjoyable than I remembered

marty63026

2024-10-18 11:09:46 +0000 UTC

I'm not talking about in Universe I'm talking about communicating it to the viewer

harrypothead42024

2024-10-18 07:46:15 +0000 UTC

I don't think that's an issue. With 1000 people in the crew, the senior staff aren't going to be there for everything. Their various team leaders are going to tell them things they missed.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-10-18 06:20:24 +0000 UTC

Imagine if she gave him a sundae loaded with laxatives?

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-10-18 06:18:38 +0000 UTC

Yeah, Frakes was fine, Dorn was pretty solid in the attempted suicide scene, Spiner was just doing his normal thing. Just Sirtis and Burton that felt a bit phoned in.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-10-18 06:08:08 +0000 UTC

No sale. It's a cool-ass nightmare sequence. Idk what Frakes had in mind instead, but what made the cut does very well at mimicking a real-life dream.

Steve Boshear

2024-10-18 06:01:53 +0000 UTC

Even Frakes described that scene as "shitty"

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-10-18 05:53:09 +0000 UTC

I don't want to answer for ALL the B or C voters, but you asked (and addressed my comment), so I'll elaborate on why this episode is "okay" for me. Sure, way better than Final Mission, but I think that's a bad episode by the standards of seasons 3 and 4, not just okay. When I mentioned "troi floating trying to talk to cryptic aliens" dragging the episode down, I think the "cryptic aliens" part is just as bad as Troi's horrible floating scenes. The plot only works because the aliens communicate telepathically and she hears their voices, but they insist on only communicating in riddles. WHY?? Why "one moon circling," that's so unnecessarily vague, and yet also has to be conveyed through complex language. Why not "we need the first element" or something more specific? They have no motivation to give a riddle, but we all know it's only the case because the episode would be half as long if they were straightforward. Other episode sins: No one seems to care that these aliens unintentionally killed 34 people on the Brittain. And we were promised at the start absolute mayhem that happened on the Brittain, but we just get Picard's claustrophobia, Riker's snakes, O'Brien being a dick to his wife. The morgue scene is an absolute standout, but otherwise the horror elements were really lite.

Ian Westcott

2024-10-18 05:49:15 +0000 UTC

But you can both claim to be "son of Dorn"

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-10-18 05:47:42 +0000 UTC

It sounds like you believe it was an alien entity floating in space. It was actually an alien spaceship, presumably with a crew. I like how we only get a glimpse of the ship. We never get to see their faces, leaving it up to our imaginations.

Gaming the Systems

2024-10-18 04:19:26 +0000 UTC

Man, was this one well timed, a horror-themed episode shortly before halloween? Of course, you guys recorded this a bit in advance, but still, it lined up nicely.

Adam Zey

2024-10-18 03:55:47 +0000 UTC

The Superpower I gained last year means that at an indeterminate time in the future my longterm memory shall wipe and I get to experience things as new (positive spin). XD

James Knight

2024-10-18 03:08:29 +0000 UTC

The Hogan clip you're talking about is from WCW in 1995. I tried finding the exact show it was from but no clip I see has an air date. It was Hogan being introduced to kevin Sullivan's Dungeon Of Doom faction which formed in late may 1995 so it would most likely be late may to early June on WCW Saturday night as that was the main WCW show at the time

Retro Tom

2024-10-18 02:57:40 +0000 UTC

Mainly I found it funny 'ha-ha', but it also looks a little ridiculous given what they had to work with at the time. I think I see what they were going for, but it just hit me so funny watching it.

Collin Freeman

2024-10-18 02:47:25 +0000 UTC

There’s an unused effects shot in the teaser, right at the end. A different version of the alien ship below the Enterprise

tyranusfan

2024-10-18 01:52:36 +0000 UTC

Funny "ha ha!" or funny "ridiculous" ?

Jovet

2024-10-18 01:51:15 +0000 UTC

That's how re-watches of most things are.

Jovet

2024-10-18 01:50:17 +0000 UTC

Perhaps, though she always seemed to me to be the least-affected (besides Data, of course).

Jovet

2024-10-18 01:45:44 +0000 UTC

The Betazoids could sleep and dream. It seems they were the only ones on the ships who could. Others could sleep but couldn't have their brains reset. He went nuts because the telepathic message "dream" was persistent and overwhelming. They both adjusted to it somewhat, but with consequences.

Jovet

2024-10-18 01:44:34 +0000 UTC

But the cliché "...getting reports of..." lines bother me. Like it's somewhere far away and peoples unknown.

Jovet

2024-10-18 01:41:18 +0000 UTC

I think this one is just fine. I always forget what it's about, get wrapped up in the mystery and creepy vibes, and then it just completely loses me in the last act. After they reveal that REM sleep deprivation is the problem, it gets pretty repetitive with scenes of Troi flying, random crew getting angry, and the main cast tiredly trying to figure out a techno babble solution. I feel like they don't deliver with any of the threads set up with chief and the crew, we get like 5 seconds of fighting in 10 forward. You said they were gunna go insane, let's see people go fucking nuts!!! not just slump around on ambien. Then they tie it with a bow by Troi making the most insanely unbelievable jump in logic, triggered by the absolute luckiest google search by Data, and it of course just happens to be exactly what they need to escape. Ridiculous. Also I hate that Guinan gun scene, it feels like something out of a fanfic.

kevin coleman

2024-10-18 01:35:07 +0000 UTC

I completely forgot that Data sent Picard to bed. S+ tier for that scene alone.

Paul

2024-10-18 01:33:43 +0000 UTC

this one seems very divisive. The staff seemed to dislike it (excpet Sirtis). But many people like it. Can you elaborate on why you disliked it so much?

paultardspambot .

2024-10-18 01:26:39 +0000 UTC

Marina Sirtis has a fear of heights and was legitimately terrified as she was in a harness in front of a green screen. The 9 minutes cut were planned scenes, not actually filmed scenes.

paultardspambot .

2024-10-18 01:25:40 +0000 UTC

Troi was "directed dreaming". She mentioned se was agahast at only having two minutes. I think thats why she didnt start saying "now". This one scared me as a kid

paultardspambot .

2024-10-18 01:15:45 +0000 UTC

Max phaser setting is 16, since you asked. 😀

tyranusfan

2024-10-18 01:09:30 +0000 UTC

An episode with horror elements has to be a S for you. That's why it's a C for me.

Sam Langanke

2024-10-18 01:08:36 +0000 UTC

I listened to this with a particularly good pair of headphones. Those sounds were so freaky!

BN13

2024-10-17 23:57:45 +0000 UTC

I border between S and A on this. At the moment S. Like both of you i obviously love the horror elements, and how everyone has at least one good moment, and not just the main 7. I've mentioned before that Deanna is my favourite character, so i love most episodes where she does more than sense an alien is hiding something.

jon bolton

2024-10-17 23:45:27 +0000 UTC

This is a painful watch for me. I knew I disliked it, but forced myself to do the watch along figuring it would get torn apart afterwards. So surprised people actually like this one.

Edweirdo

2024-10-17 23:32:18 +0000 UTC

I once fell asleep on the couch and dreamed that I woke up and went to bed. When I woke up I was on the couch and was very confused.

KatWithAttitude

2024-10-17 23:07:24 +0000 UTC

Keiko doesn't have a uniform. She is a civilian.

Regan

2024-10-17 23:05:50 +0000 UTC

I didn’t get a notification for some reason for Galaxy’s Child. All good.

John M.

2024-10-17 22:40:53 +0000 UTC

The chief and Keiko relationship is an excellent easy way for the storytellers to show what the rest of the crew is going through without having to just have it be an exposition dump in one of the staff meetings

harrypothead42024

2024-10-17 22:16:50 +0000 UTC

I never liked this episode but I enjoyed watching it with you guys and I feel like I'm watching it with everybody else also

harrypothead42024

2024-10-17 22:12:47 +0000 UTC

Q lucked out in Deja Q that Guinan only stabbed him with that fork. Imagine if she’d gone behind the counter.

Lwaxana’s Poolboy

2024-10-17 21:51:22 +0000 UTC

I always assumed the Betazoid went nuts not because of the lack of sleep, but being an empath in close proximity to mass murder and experiencing all those emotions at once. Bro overclocked and cooked.

EnigmaticPenguin

2024-10-17 21:46:33 +0000 UTC

I still like McRibs.

Jovet

2024-10-17 21:45:03 +0000 UTC

Big Ds are fun!

Jovet

2024-10-17 21:43:51 +0000 UTC

@Greg Quinn I think it's fine that it's not explained how the aliens could have a substance that would react so strongly to hydrogen.

Jovet

2024-10-17 21:43:35 +0000 UTC

Expect? Not much. I guess maybe something that doesn't look so funny.

Collin Freeman

2024-10-17 21:43:25 +0000 UTC

Luckily she wasn't looking away when it flashed across the screen for half a second.

Jovet

2024-10-17 21:42:19 +0000 UTC

Scientically it's silly because a chemical reaction explosion would never be nearly as power as a nuclear based explosion or the even more powerful matter antimatter explosions that the proton torpedos can do. But it's fine....works for the story and unless you are a science nerd you'll never notice.

Greg Quinn

2024-10-17 21:42:13 +0000 UTC

It's a dream. I don't really comprehend what more you expect.

Jovet

2024-10-17 21:41:01 +0000 UTC

"AYM GNAW LAWNGUR SCHTRONKG!"

Jovet

2024-10-17 21:39:19 +0000 UTC

Agreed. The apparently-common opinion of Troi's dream scenes being sub-par really baffles me.

Jovet

2024-10-17 21:33:13 +0000 UTC

One of the things I like about TNG is the many faces of the show. Science, technology, personnel, stress, horror, crazy aliens... the topic of "the unknown" rings many bells.

Jovet

2024-10-17 21:32:29 +0000 UTC

They aliens had no way to convey their name for hydrogen, so they were trying to describe it.

Jovet

2024-10-17 21:30:44 +0000 UTC

From what I've read, this is the fist episode filmed after a Christmas break, and everyone will still settling back into the swing of things. It disappointment some of the production team, but it seems perfectly find acting-wise to me.

Jovet

2024-10-17 21:28:34 +0000 UTC

So, after some reflection - we don't tend to remember a lot of 'good'. We remember 'great' and 'awful' for the most part, and most may vote based on their prominent memory of a scene/feeling from the past. If the memorable visual after years is Troi on wires getting a butt wedgie, the bar scene or Worf suicide 'good' scenes are tougher to remember in comparison perhaps..? May be why the initial reactions were so focused on the Troi bit

The Ninth Doctor

2024-10-17 21:27:04 +0000 UTC

Yep....although some of her work does seem to be within "federation goals". I'd see her as almost like a civilian contractor.

Greg Quinn

2024-10-17 21:25:31 +0000 UTC

Yeah better on rewatch then I remembered. Probably also a bit social contagion that these guys like it. Still. Solid A now.

Greg Quinn

2024-10-17 21:24:19 +0000 UTC

I'm glad you guys liked the episode; I already expressed my positive attitude in my Patron take, so I'll just add that I appreciate the aliens not being combative or manipulative, but just beings that needed help. Also, while I agree Guinan just holding the gun would have probably been more intimidating, I always just assumed that her mind was being affected as well, and it made her a little more irritable/quick-tempered. Could be wrong, but that's my view of it. Still doesn't excuse the poor spark effects though.

Ryan Caulfield

2024-10-17 21:23:58 +0000 UTC

from now on when i'm late for something i'll use the "i was detained" line to confuse them all

Narnman

2024-10-17 21:22:38 +0000 UTC

Had the same thought - didn't have a hugely positive memory of this one, but enjoyed it more on the rewatch with A&J..!

The Ninth Doctor

2024-10-17 21:07:09 +0000 UTC

Really enjoyed rewatching this one! Had it stuck in my head that I didn't like this one because of the Troi scenes since I couldn't remember much else but I was pleasantly surprised by how much I like the rest of it. Part of the reason why I love this channel and getting the chance to reevaluate my opinions on episodes I haven't watched in ages.

Elizabeth N

2024-10-17 21:03:09 +0000 UTC

No it has not.

Glenn Zigli

2024-10-17 20:47:51 +0000 UTC

I think this episode perfectly sums up how good TNG is, this episode may not be my personal favourite of the season but the stories and acting are so good consistantly that everybody will find episodes more to their own taste over the course of a season.

Dazzler & Em

2024-10-17 20:28:33 +0000 UTC

I'm going to stick with my opinion that the acting in this episode is below par for TNG. Patrick Steward is amazing - after all, he IS Patrick Steward. But everyone else seemed to be a step or two below what I expect from them. Now, maybe it was actually great acting, and what I am seeing is just that actors are portraying so well the fact that the characters are exhausted. But everything felt too flat to me. Another issue for me is that I hate the horror genre. I go out of my way to avoid anything horror related.

Jeffrey

2024-10-17 20:18:43 +0000 UTC

Perfect for October.... Halloween

Tom Occhipinti

2024-10-17 20:04:30 +0000 UTC

Thank you

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-10-17 19:43:39 +0000 UTC

I always figured it was a problem getting that concept across. Like she was interpreting it in her language but really it was maybe just more of images of a moon circling and she interpreted it as words. I think the aliens just didn't have a way to communicate hydrogen appropriately.

Eric Wilson

2024-10-17 19:42:18 +0000 UTC

You guys are great.

Shortskirtsandexplosions

2024-10-17 19:41:59 +0000 UTC

Keiko is a civilian. Not in Starfleet. She has no uniform. Starfleet is the Federation's navy. Not everyone is in the navy.

Aaron Wells

2024-10-17 19:39:17 +0000 UTC

1:22:50 "You wonder why we miss stuff??" That does explain a lot! LOL!!!

Jovet

2024-10-17 19:37:21 +0000 UTC

I was thinking how lucky it was this episode fell on Halloween month for you guys.

Mike Rogers

2024-10-17 19:31:56 +0000 UTC

Great episode for Spooktober. The scene with all the cadavers sitting up around Beverly is like one of the most terrifying images. Pretty sure I had a recurring nightmare like that

Deep Red

2024-10-17 19:29:22 +0000 UTC

Thanks for reading my take Alex and Josh, My reasoning for skipping this one on rewatches most of the time is for the same reason you love it ironically, I’m not a massive horror fan myself never felt the appeal of jump scaring myself so don’t feel like I would put myself through it watching a tv show I like, that being said my original take was trying to be brief to not bore you etc on the occasions I do watch this episode I tend to scene skip the morgue and yes you’ve guessed it the “where are you” scenes. Hope this gets back to you guys and it expands a little bit on what I meant in my original take. However before I go, listening to your breakdown of the episodes it’s highlighting factors that brought you a lot of joy and got it up there in the s tier has definitely opened my eyes to appreciating it more going forward so thank you for giving it a fresh take for me

LonghillAndy

2024-10-17 19:21:13 +0000 UTC

we can only communicate a single word... well just bloody say hydrogen then?

Alan Thompson

2024-10-17 19:18:44 +0000 UTC

Hey all. Note this day as we have seen the origins of the murder charge defense plea. REM deprivation. The question is whether Alex or Josh will be the one using it when they kill the other

Prof Moff

2024-10-17 19:18:31 +0000 UTC

totally figured you guys would love this. great takes.

Lt Dan I scream

2024-10-17 19:17:03 +0000 UTC

58:04 No, the knock was real. Either Troi or Crusher knocked on the door after Picard didn't answer his doorbell. Picard was hallucinating many doorbells, but one of two of them after he sat back down must have been real.

Jovet

2024-10-17 19:14:10 +0000 UTC

As a fan of horror, I loved this episode. I'm glad TNG isn't a horror show but every time they can shoe horn it in, I dig it.

Saucy

2024-10-17 19:12:05 +0000 UTC

I'm with TA. S-tier episode. Never thought the Troi stuff was goofy or silly at all.

Steve Boshear

2024-10-17 19:07:42 +0000 UTC

50:25 There were actually noises (presumably that Riker was hallucinating) in his room. Just like the rustling sounds Beverly kept hearing in the makeshift morgue.

Jovet

2024-10-17 19:07:22 +0000 UTC

Sorry to be another “the troi dream” club, and I really enjoyed the rest of the episode, more so on this rewatch too, even got through the dreams where I’ve groaned through them before But the really weird thing… the whole “eyes in the dark… one moon circles… where aaaaare yoooouuu” has popped up in my memory in random moments more consistently so than any other moment from all of the franchise So I’ve just assumed it’s like listening to an old tape too many times, it’s worn out for me Totally not the fault of the episode or Marina, in fact it’s done something to keep it in my head for close to 3 decades, but just can’t enjoy it now

Andrew Duffy

2024-10-17 19:05:51 +0000 UTC

I figured (but wasn't 100% sure) you'd love this one.

Jovet

2024-10-17 19:03:16 +0000 UTC

It's funny how my lasting memory of this episode is the goofy Troi stuff, and I think that's why I remembered it as a C or B tier, but after rewatching it feels more like an A/A- to me.

Forbidden Donut

2024-10-17 18:56:18 +0000 UTC

38:48 Directed Dreaming is a real thing.

Jovet

2024-10-17 18:55:06 +0000 UTC

As I’ve said before I’ve always enjoyed this one, atmospheric, great score, some fun scenes. I wouldn’t rate it as high as an S but I’ve always liked it. That Worf scene is very effective!

Darren Seal

2024-10-17 18:54:51 +0000 UTC

32:22 It's always sickly amused me how Worf has that suicide kit sitting there, all ready to go...

Jovet

2024-10-17 18:49:49 +0000 UTC

?

Josef Nitervol

2024-10-17 18:43:52 +0000 UTC

The Moral of this episode, GET GOOD SLEEP!!!!! Also, unfortunately not related to Michael Dorn

Christopher Dorn

2024-10-17 18:43:51 +0000 UTC

Pause

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-10-17 18:41:12 +0000 UTC

23:17 It annoys me that the door didn't open for Data like it should have.

Jovet

2024-10-17 18:40:43 +0000 UTC

No

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-10-17 18:39:43 +0000 UTC

I liked this the first hundred or so times I saw it, presently I get to the floating/ flying scene and I'm out. Now I'm waiting until I've all but forgotten the plot to rewatch it.

James Knight

2024-10-17 18:39:39 +0000 UTC

Yeah, I never understood some people liking the new music. I always thought the early music was trying to sound "futuristic" or something, and prefer these seasons' music.

Joe Concepts

2024-10-17 18:37:40 +0000 UTC

Wait, didn't we miss an episode or two?

John M.

2024-10-17 18:31:12 +0000 UTC

Keiko Doesn't have a uniform because she's not in Star Fleet.

D Jammers

2024-10-17 18:30:12 +0000 UTC

I think there was more to this episode than I remembered. Im kind of glad my take didn't get read bc I no longer agree with it myself.

Steven Cressler

2024-10-17 18:27:04 +0000 UTC

I'm sorry, that floating Deanna Troi is just so silly and funny-looking, I'm laughing while watching this.

Collin Freeman

2024-10-17 18:27:04 +0000 UTC

I love the tension and atmosphere. The direction, acting, and music are great and effective. But holy shit, do those Troi flying effects and repetitive yelling knock it down a peg. I also always get this one confused with The Loss, earlier this season since it's both dealing with Deanna being affected by an "invisible" alien with the Enterprise being immobilized. I rate it as an A- in the dark with a B+ circling it.

THE LORE!!!

2024-10-17 18:24:34 +0000 UTC

YES, those are the original shots, I've watched this episode dozens of times, they did not replace the effects. They re-composited nearly every single one of them from the original film. I think only when the original film was missing did they replace stuff.

Angelaina Marie

2024-10-17 18:09:45 +0000 UTC

I think that's why the filmmakers chose hydrogen as the element that was needed because Troi needed to spot something simple and out-of-place on a screen filled with complex molecular structures. Lots of circles and lines and then suddenly - BOOM - a single circle and a moon orbiting it - looking more like a planet than a chemical structure. It's such a simple image that it would stand out from the rest and also helps establish the idea that Troi and the other Betazoid clearly couldn't figure out the message on their own, they needed direct inspiration (in this case with Data's help) to put two-and-two together. And that cements the idea of why the Enterprise D survives so many encounters that other ships don't - its the unique combination of the crew who can come up with solutions together via their unique skills. Watching the show with you guys keeps reminding me how good this show is at spotting holes in the story and paving them over long before the wheels roll over them.

The Sultan

2024-10-17 18:08:54 +0000 UTC

Good this episode is over and it's a big D

Josef Nitervol

2024-10-17 17:54:15 +0000 UTC

It's very...stodgy, there's no bite to it - I like food with different textures. It's slightly over hyped maybe, but having to wait 20 mins for it slightly soured the experience 😅

SinocTheHodgeheg

2024-10-17 17:42:25 +0000 UTC

Tried the McRib a decade ago and thought “well I never need to do that again” has it gotten any better? Lol

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-10-17 17:37:05 +0000 UTC

Busy but ok thanks! Making video games is hard work, but I ate my first McRib today so there's that 😅

SinocTheHodgeheg

2024-10-17 17:33:47 +0000 UTC

Wow, first? Welcome to the club

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-10-17 17:27:07 +0000 UTC

How you been Sinoc?

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-10-17 17:26:37 +0000 UTC

Man this my first big disagreement with you guys

Phil Ken Sebben

2024-10-17 17:18:50 +0000 UTC

Refering back to your BSG watching: first there was "Night Terrors," then there was "33." Also (edited) the "Brattain" IS the re-used Reliant from TWOK, they also mis-spelled the ship's name on the decal.

Angelaina Marie

2024-10-17 17:12:58 +0000 UTC

Now we're eating good

SinocTheHodgeheg

2024-10-17 17:11:43 +0000 UTC

UNCUT - Night Terrors (TNG S4E17) | Star Trek Journey 198

Comments

Super late to the party here, but I learned on this rewatch that Worf's line when he's about to stab himself ("jIlujpu' jIH, Alexander") translates to "I have failed Alexander". So while Troi didn't tell him to think of Dorf, you were right that Worf was thinking about him!

Has anyone mentioned that Brian Tochi (Ensign Lin) played one of the kids in "And the Children Shall Lead"?

Would be interesting to see what the roles of any of these civilians working aboard starships are structured as.

There is no evidence that she or any civilians are contractors

yet, hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe...?

Oh yea, same here. I was probably a few years older but it still terrified me.

This episode would have been fifteen minutes long if Troi just told everyone what her recurring nightmare was about.

This one was always S for me but that might be because I first saw it when I was 10 and those bodies sitting up have lived rent free in my head for over 30 years

Imagine the planning on the other ship. “We need to communicate that we need hydrogen but it needs to be short”. “How about: ‘need hydrogen’”. “No...how about ‘eyes in the dark, one moon circling”

It's not you. It's not me either. I'm dead

I love that pumpkin shirt !

I'm thrilled you enjoyed the episode. Troi's scenes usually make viewers burst into laughter.

Ron Jones is indeed gone by the end of this season, so enjoy his scores while you can. He did score this episode, yes.

this is definitely not INMHO no where near an S i'd say B and thats Pushing it. But I never liked too many of TNG's horror takes

Going off the patron tier ratings, ratings hover around B tier with a good number of As and Cs, and some S and D ratings as well. 4x18 is more weighted toward the Cs and Ds though.

Really? I thought everyone liked the next one! The one after that is one of my favorites, but the next one is really really good!

Yeah, experimentation is great, but it is going to result in hits and misses. Which is which depends on the person. I personally rather like the next one, but a lot of people don't seem to.

All the FX shots are original. The only thing that changed in the remaster was the planets, which were improved via CGI, and the occasional explosion. All the shots of Enterprise should be the original just clearer (vs SD of the 90s)

Yeah, Troi's dream wasn't literal or a real environment. It was a dream, just one "arranged" by the alien's communication.

Now wondering if Worf had that dagger to his chest when Picard called the senior staff the the conference room… 🧐

I think because Troi is half human she could better ‘hear’ the alien and keep it together better than a full blooded Betaziod. She actually ‘saw’ one in her dream, not sure the other guy could.

Not sure but I think that’s from another episode. They do that in the trailers some times. For the wounded they flipped a shot of Maxwell with his phaser drawn when O’Brien entered his ready room, weird

I like this episode even more after watching it with you guys. I’d have to bump it up to an A tier now, more enjoyable than I remembered

I'm not talking about in Universe I'm talking about communicating it to the viewer

I don't think that's an issue. With 1000 people in the crew, the senior staff aren't going to be there for everything. Their various team leaders are going to tell them things they missed.

Imagine if she gave him a sundae loaded with laxatives?

Yeah, Frakes was fine, Dorn was pretty solid in the attempted suicide scene, Spiner was just doing his normal thing. Just Sirtis and Burton that felt a bit phoned in.

No sale. It's a cool-ass nightmare sequence. Idk what Frakes had in mind instead, but what made the cut does very well at mimicking a real-life dream.

Even Frakes described that scene as "shitty"

But you can both claim to be "son of Dorn"

It sounds like you believe it was an alien entity floating in space. It was actually an alien spaceship, presumably with a crew. I like how we only get a glimpse of the ship. We never get to see their faces, leaving it up to our imaginations.

Man, was this one well timed, a horror-themed episode shortly before halloween? Of course, you guys recorded this a bit in advance, but still, it lined up nicely.

The Superpower I gained last year means that at an indeterminate time in the future my longterm memory shall wipe and I get to experience things as new (positive spin). XD

Mainly I found it funny 'ha-ha', but it also looks a little ridiculous given what they had to work with at the time. I think I see what they were going for, but it just hit me so funny watching it.

There’s an unused effects shot in the teaser, right at the end. A different version of the alien ship below the Enterprise

Funny "ha ha!" or funny "ridiculous" ?

That's how re-watches of most things are.

Perhaps, though she always seemed to me to be the least-affected (besides Data, of course).

The Betazoids could sleep and dream. It seems they were the only ones on the ships who could. Others could sleep but couldn't have their brains reset. He went nuts because the telepathic message "dream" was persistent and overwhelming. They both adjusted to it somewhat, but with consequences.

But the cliché "...getting reports of..." lines bother me. Like it's somewhere far away and peoples unknown.

I completely forgot that Data sent Picard to bed. S+ tier for that scene alone.

this one seems very divisive. The staff seemed to dislike it (excpet Sirtis). But many people like it. Can you elaborate on why you disliked it so much?

Marina Sirtis has a fear of heights and was legitimately terrified as she was in a harness in front of a green screen. The 9 minutes cut were planned scenes, not actually filmed scenes.

Troi was "directed dreaming". She mentioned se was agahast at only having two minutes. I think thats why she didnt start saying "now". This one scared me as a kid

Max phaser setting is 16, since you asked. 😀

An episode with horror elements has to be a S for you. That's why it's a C for me.

I listened to this with a particularly good pair of headphones. Those sounds were so freaky!

This is a painful watch for me. I knew I disliked it, but forced myself to do the watch along figuring it would get torn apart afterwards. So surprised people actually like this one.

I once fell asleep on the couch and dreamed that I woke up and went to bed. When I woke up I was on the couch and was very confused.

Keiko doesn't have a uniform. She is a civilian.

I didn’t get a notification for some reason for Galaxy’s Child. All good.

The chief and Keiko relationship is an excellent easy way for the storytellers to show what the rest of the crew is going through without having to just have it be an exposition dump in one of the staff meetings

I never liked this episode but I enjoyed watching it with you guys and I feel like I'm watching it with everybody else also

Q lucked out in Deja Q that Guinan only stabbed him with that fork. Imagine if she’d gone behind the counter.

I always assumed the Betazoid went nuts not because of the lack of sleep, but being an empath in close proximity to mass murder and experiencing all those emotions at once. Bro overclocked and cooked.

I still like McRibs.

Big Ds are fun!

@Greg Quinn I think it's fine that it's not explained how the aliens could have a substance that would react so strongly to hydrogen.

Expect? Not much. I guess maybe something that doesn't look so funny.

Luckily she wasn't looking away when it flashed across the screen for half a second.

It's a dream. I don't really comprehend what more you expect.

"AYM GNAW LAWNGUR SCHTRONKG!"

Agreed. The apparently-common opinion of Troi's dream scenes being sub-par really baffles me.

One of the things I like about TNG is the many faces of the show. Science, technology, personnel, stress, horror, crazy aliens... the topic of "the unknown" rings many bells.

They aliens had no way to convey their name for hydrogen, so they were trying to describe it.

From what I've read, this is the fist episode filmed after a Christmas break, and everyone will still settling back into the swing of things. It disappointment some of the production team, but it seems perfectly find acting-wise to me.

Yep....although some of her work does seem to be within "federation goals". I'd see her as almost like a civilian contractor.

Yeah better on rewatch then I remembered. Probably also a bit social contagion that these guys like it. Still. Solid A now.

from now on when i'm late for something i'll use the "i was detained" line to confuse them all

Had the same thought - didn't have a hugely positive memory of this one, but enjoyed it more on the rewatch with A&J..!

No it has not.

I think this episode perfectly sums up how good TNG is, this episode may not be my personal favourite of the season but the stories and acting are so good consistantly that everybody will find episodes more to their own taste over the course of a season.

Perfect for October.... Halloween

Thank you

I always figured it was a problem getting that concept across. Like she was interpreting it in her language but really it was maybe just more of images of a moon circling and she interpreted it as words. I think the aliens just didn't have a way to communicate hydrogen appropriately.

You guys are great.

Keiko is a civilian. Not in Starfleet. She has no uniform. Starfleet is the Federation's navy. Not everyone is in the navy.

1:22:50 "You wonder why we miss stuff??" That does explain a lot! LOL!!!