Target Audience / UNCUT - Devil's Due (TNG S4E13)

This has such an OG feel to it with Ardra.

ET

2024-10-15 06:54:13 +0000 UTC

I really like this episode, but my one complaint is how certain Picard is that Ardra's a fraud based mostly on personal feeling. He doesn't seem open to the possibility she could be real at all. I also think it goes against Ardra's character to pursue Picard or claim the Enterprise as hers. She should know even if the Enterprise crew don't figure out a way out, that having the Federation after her wouldn't end well.

Bret Kay

2024-10-09 02:04:40 +0000 UTC

You can change your ratings

Steven Cressler

2024-10-08 19:27:29 +0000 UTC

I cannot wait for the discussion on this one after seeing such a big gap in those rankings. I give this episode a B personally, mainly because Ardra is a fun antagonist and Picard's showboating at the end is great. I also like Picard's discussion with Data about the different effects of fear. But Geordi solving everything mostly offscreen and just in the nick of time, really knocks it down a bit. Also, since Picard and Ardra have been having a battle of wills the entire time, he really should have found the solution instead of just stalling for time essentially.

Ryan Caulfield

2024-10-05 18:54:47 +0000 UTC

Did she jeopardize her whole operation for PD?

Philbot

2024-10-05 16:10:22 +0000 UTC

Where’s the Discussion? I’m not used to waiting anymore..

Philbot

2024-10-05 16:05:32 +0000 UTC

That’s exactly what it feels like. Season 1.

Crankygrandma

2024-10-05 15:14:14 +0000 UTC

I accidentally gave this a B in the ratings thread. It should have been a low C. It had good bits but also felt bland to me. I went back to edit but y’all had already watched it.

Crankygrandma

2024-10-05 15:08:10 +0000 UTC

this is the first episode of TNG i ever saw when it originally aired. what a strange introduction it was. C tier only for the guest actress who really shines with charisma. the klingon devil design is cool. it really feels like it’s from season one in quality.

David Marcoot

2024-10-05 10:29:13 +0000 UTC

Don’t get me wrong. I love TOS. I started on and grew up on TOS. But this episode has so many late-stage Roddenberry-isms in it …the views on religion (which I don’t disagree with BTW) the rather clunky seduction scene, the unintentional ‘great white savior’ deus ex machina… It was just weird to hear dialog meant for Kirk coming from Picard’s mouth.

StealthMomo

2024-10-05 09:26:29 +0000 UTC

I enjoyed "Devil's Due" even though it wasn't as popular with many of my friends. I was in a Star Trek fan club that met monthly when I was in college. We often discussed episodes and had watch parties. It was a reused script from Star Trek Phase II that never got produced in favor of doing Star Trek: The Motion Picture. The second season premiere, "The Child", was another Phase II reused script.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2024-10-05 04:14:46 +0000 UTC

The anticipation as to why Josh gave this episode an S rivals the S3 cliffhanger!

Lwaxana’s Poolboy

2024-10-05 00:41:39 +0000 UTC

Is episode Title considered a spoiler? (To be clear, I’m asking for discussion, not to be confrontational/belligerent, since that’s not always clear in text) I figured it wouldn’t mean anything to anyone that hadn’t seen the episode, but would indicate which episode I meant to those that had. Spoiling guest star actors or plot details are obvious bad, or even titles that purposely aren’t listed(House of the Dragon kept episode titles secret until after it aired to avoid spoilers). But Star Trek TNG shows the episode title right after the credits, sometimes with barely a minute of footage before that. Sometimes they do have spoilers(Titles like “Sarek” give away the guest star), but it’s not too common. If we’re avoiding all titles to be extra careful/avoid even a chance of confusion for what is/isn’t a spoiler, that’s fine. I won’t list anything by title going forward. I don’t think there’s any spoilers for this one(Whoa…I typed a lot. I think I just like thinking/discussing things with any excuse I get to. 🤷‍♂️)

Todd “Canuck” Schmuck

2024-10-05 00:11:53 +0000 UTC

And Roddenberry has some thoughts on religion…

Richard Finch

2024-10-04 23:48:29 +0000 UTC

I love this episode.

Anthony MacEwan

2024-10-04 23:37:28 +0000 UTC

Did you say “reading book if you are smart”? That is a grim statement

AzoriusMage

2024-10-04 19:38:45 +0000 UTC

Admit it. Josh gave it S tier because of the sexy devil lady.

Aramis Calcutt

2024-10-04 19:22:16 +0000 UTC

Sometimes all you want is a REALLY good cheeseburger.

Pokeysaurus

2024-10-04 16:03:27 +0000 UTC

I never really got that vibe. The Federation has long been established as an idyllic society when it comes to traditional ails of the modern industrial world. In this episode, the Federation is made to seem superior to the "backward" people of that planet. I dont think they were shown as an example of what our society should be.

Pokeysaurus

2024-10-04 16:01:27 +0000 UTC

Remember, the guys grade the episode on what it tries to be. If it's executed well, that matters more than the premise being a home run.

Pokeysaurus

2024-10-04 15:56:40 +0000 UTC

Yeah, they definitely had big "Season Finales" in the 90s that would often include a cliffhanger for the coming Fall, but not all shows really got into that, so I can see where people would be used to primarily one or the other in the same time period. But yes, at that time they really didnt have mid-season finales built into the plots of the shows the same way we saw them in Spring Finales.

Pokeysaurus

2024-10-04 15:53:22 +0000 UTC

Beverly and Ardra were both on the bridge

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-10-04 15:32:11 +0000 UTC

Good point, if she had Picard would have been in trouble

marty63026

2024-10-04 14:27:18 +0000 UTC

Ardra's plan would have worked just fine if she had stuck with it. Instead, her lust for what she is told she can't have (Picard) got the better of her, and she got greedy and reckless.

Jovet

2024-10-04 14:27:01 +0000 UTC

I believe that Ardra never even met Beverly.

Jovet

2024-10-04 14:25:52 +0000 UTC

It isn't that obvious to me. It is a bit of a stand-out, with the superstitious, religious, and preachy-environmentalist overtones. But I think it's a fine TNG episode!

Jovet

2024-10-04 14:14:00 +0000 UTC

This is the most "Harry Mudd" episode of Next Generation so far... a flim-flam artist capitalizing on the beliefs of another civilization for their own personal gain. She has a touch of charm and flair which makes her a bit of a likeable, if ultimately nonredeemable, character.

Who North America

2024-10-04 14:08:11 +0000 UTC

@paultardspambot *the devil

Jovet

2024-10-04 14:08:08 +0000 UTC

@marty63026 Except for the fact that Picard really was not into her. The pretending-to-be-the-devil thing was quite the turn-off for him. (As it would be for me.)

Jovet

2024-10-04 14:02:05 +0000 UTC

I also excuse this episode despite it being preachy regarding Saving the Earth.

Jovet

2024-10-04 13:53:47 +0000 UTC

This one is definitely a B in my opinion. It is fun and is entertaining but not some kind of amazing situation. The S was a definite surprise but we all have our weird episodes that are pretty mid that we love more than most other people

Strife

2024-10-04 13:42:39 +0000 UTC

I don't believe anyone else has mentioned it: Despite how much I enjoy this episode, it's also fairly preachy. It's suggesting that we humans need to revert to an agrarian society to save the Earth. 🙄

Jovet

2024-10-04 13:40:29 +0000 UTC

Humbug!

Thicketdweller

2024-10-04 12:42:29 +0000 UTC

Yup, honestly the episode works so well because Ardra has that X-factor about her. I bet Picard was secretly hoping to lose lol

Paul

2024-10-04 12:23:14 +0000 UTC

An episode meant to be humorous and light can still be an S-tier. Depends on the value structure of who's rating it. Personally, I think this is a solid B+, S is definitely a surprise.

Paul

2024-10-04 12:21:47 +0000 UTC

What does god need with a starship?

paultardspambot .

2024-10-04 12:01:49 +0000 UTC

Because Picard wanted to prove to the planetary residents she was full of it, he wasn't as much concerned about the enterprise, but he had to show that by their own laws she was full of it. I don't think any thing she did is that crazy, she could have acquired a few tricks from being around, but again, their tricks. That's the way magic works. It tells you to look over here when the real action is somewhere else. I buy they might have been momentarily fooled, but also that they would figure it out pretty quickly which they did which made her plan silly.

paultardspambot .

2024-10-04 12:01:21 +0000 UTC

like when you try to think about how Ardra's plans are going to work beyond a day or two or why she would even try this rather then get some payment and get the hell out of there like an actual con artist. It just doesn't make any sense she is this super great con artist but her plans are so obviously unworkable and can possibly be sustained for days let alone years, particularly when she goes beyond the dopey planet residents to try and claim the enterprise and think her cloak and tractor beam are going to work indefinitely and starfleet wont send more ships to investigate the disappearance of their flagship.

paultardspambot .

2024-10-04 11:58:23 +0000 UTC

i'm not seeing the similarity. That was probably the most out there episode of TAS and thats saying something, but in that case the devil and the puritans actually were immortal powerful entities The only similarity was a trial.

paultardspambot .

2024-10-04 11:54:39 +0000 UTC

and because there were such groups that helped people figure out how to fix their problems, nothing much happened. But this wasn't a case of alarmism. It was a case of real problem people took seriously and worked hard on to avoid any major ramifications.

paultardspambot .

2024-10-04 11:51:47 +0000 UTC

Well the way Audra was so thirsty for Picard, losing did have an amazing consolation prize

marty63026

2024-10-04 11:47:25 +0000 UTC

That’s my guess

marty63026

2024-10-04 11:45:02 +0000 UTC

For me this episode is very entertaining provided you turn your brain off. When you actually think about the plot it makes absolutely no sense. Echoing what people are saying here, it is notable that is a recycled script from phase 2. I can't help but ask myself- did this woman really believe that the enterprise would be forever stuck by her tractort beam and cloak? That if that ws the case, starfleet wouldn't send more ships to investigate? That Picard would really be her love slave? Once you get past the fun goofiness of this, nothin she does makes any sense. Real scam artists act quickly, get what they want from the mark, then get out. The script was more obviously written for Kirk. From the beggining, Picard sees through this. Because of course it does. So the contrast between her impressive tricks and complete overconfidence and not thinking this through make it feel a bit like entertaining fan fiction. The vibe of this would fit in more with TOS where it always felt like the Enterprise was alone on the frontier and their ship wasn't that advanced, in fact in the original trek bible they were against solving issues by technological means so they frequent;y had setups where it was kirk and spock and the rest having to use their wits to deal with a more powerful adversary. TNG represents a different, much larger and stronger Federation, and this "adversary" is never really more ten an amusing distraction for our crew. I feel this might hve worked better if it was just the inhabitants of this planet who believed her and were under threat, the point where she claims ownership of the Enterprise it goes off the rails in terms of believability, despite the fun court scene which trek always does well. I don't dislike this per ce, it's just seems like a sudden tonal departure from what Trek has been at this point and Ardra is just too silly. The best I can come up with is she though Picard held some secret attraction to her and thus would submit to her because he wanted to. Even her attempt at giving him something "unattinable" fails as she picks Troi who Picard has zero interest in over the much better choice of Beverly, which at least might have made him feel something for a second. but all in all, she's just barking up the wrong tre with Picard, Kirk or even Pike might have made more sense.

paultardspambot .

2024-10-04 11:44:25 +0000 UTC

Oh and that dolly shot peering through the bridge wooden arch then swinging around as the crew comes down to take their stations, we see Audra fully for the first time as our crew does. Great direction.

marty63026

2024-10-04 11:41:14 +0000 UTC

I’m with Josh. This is what he like the most about Star Trek. Great characters in weird senecios trying to solve problems. The chemistry between Picard and Audra is awesome and we are kept in the dark until nearly the end how she’s displaying these ‘powers’. Great

marty63026

2024-10-04 11:37:56 +0000 UTC

Spoiler on the title bro

marty63026

2024-10-04 11:33:23 +0000 UTC

If Audra had gotten Picard’s Captain’s ‘log’ by becoming Dr Beverly instead of Troi this would have been a very different episode. Imagine Audra showing up as Dr Beverly at Picard quarters DTF, would Picard have realized it was Audra?

marty63026

2024-10-04 11:31:44 +0000 UTC

Fall Finale? Maybe it’s just my age, but I always viewed September(starting Labour Day weekend) to be a sort of North American New Year’s growing up. It meant the start of a new school year/grade. The start of a new Hockey season(and basketball, but the Canadian in me was all hockey). And the start of a new tv season for your favourite shows( no 2-3 year waits for 6-10 episodes. A full 22-26 episodes every single year). It’s been 8 years since I had cable tv, but broadcast tv(not counting HBO or any non-broadcast/cable-tv only channels) was still very much about hyping the big season finale, usually right before the start of summer/end of school year. It may not apply outside North America, but finales were huge here as long as I can remember.

Todd “Canuck” Schmuck

2024-10-04 11:00:26 +0000 UTC

Technically they have 2 more episodes before the halfway point of the series. Because of the writers strike in season 2, there are 4 episodes less there than any other season. With 178 total, episode 89 (First Contact) is the series midpoint. But this is still the mid-season point.

Todd “Canuck” Schmuck

2024-10-04 10:40:36 +0000 UTC

I’ve been here for 3 years, if I’m not mistaken. Seasons 5 and 6 are rock solid. 7 falls a little bit, imo, but still strong.

Tom Occhipinti

2024-10-04 08:52:26 +0000 UTC

This is one of the weaker episodes of the season. An S? For this? An episode about a scam artist who pretends to be the devil? Its meant for laughs. A solid C.

Aaron Wells

2024-10-04 06:57:29 +0000 UTC

And here I was going to congratulate Josh for calling it off the top: "The MID season finale." Sorry, but as much as work is also likely to blame, I did nod off during this one... again. Also, actual congrats on makining it over halfway through TNG.

Nolan

2024-10-04 06:37:41 +0000 UTC

I haven't had time to read the other posts, however I'll say that Ardra, in my opinion, is akin to a 24th Century Harry Mudd-type. Think about it.......... with the technology available a century after Kirk's time, Mudd would have had a blast getting his way more often than not. Imagine if the two of them met: would Ardra and Mudd team up, or compete? Or some weird combination of those two paths?

Rhett Coates

2024-10-04 05:27:43 +0000 UTC

Court room episode in TNG=Immediate S tier from Josh.

Spencer Loften

2024-10-04 05:04:56 +0000 UTC

Finally someone else says it. This episode is a steaming pile of horse shit. No offense to anyone who enjoys it of course. I love plenty of bad Star Trek episodes myself. I joked in an earlier comment that Josh would put it in the A tier. Turns out he took it one step further than that. I'm very excited to hear the discussion. I think this is the biggest disagreement they've had so far when it comes to how they rate an episode.

Spencer Loften

2024-10-04 05:03:28 +0000 UTC

I don't think they meant mid-season finale as anything formal. Just a reference to what you might say now. New marketing folks just came up with these cool names for things fairly recently. Even season finales weren't really pointed out that much. But what they now might call the Fall Finale, we used to just call "the break between new episodes for the holidays."

Joe Concepts

2024-10-04 04:51:58 +0000 UTC

Wow, to put this in the same category as The Defector seems crazy. And isn't that HIGHER than Best of Both Worlds for Josh? I could be convinced to seeing at as a C easier. For me it jumps between B and C because it's entertaining, but has nothing very substantial and most of the crew have nothing to do.

Joe Concepts

2024-10-04 04:47:40 +0000 UTC

I imagine this was going to be an early script in the phase 2 series given how often Ardra tells the audience what ship Picard is captain of.

Alan Thompson

2024-10-04 04:02:09 +0000 UTC

Never realized this episode was so divisive. Definitely can't give it an S. S to me is the 25-30 eps that you look back at the show and see as iconic and really define the show and it's characters. Maybe 30-35 As being good, well executed eps that you're always down to watch. Bs to me are fun or interesting to watch, but still average in quality, while Cs are mediocre but not terrible. Ds have some potential or redeeming quality, but are overall bad, while Fs could be erased and nothing of value would be lost. I'd say this is a definitive B. It's fun, has some TOS vibes, some good character moments, and an amusing antagonist, but it doesn't really add to the characters of the overall story of the show much. It's a very self contained, filler type episode. Now that said, not every episode can be a MoaM, Wounded, BoBW, Defector, etc... If they all tried to be, I think it would be worse to have a bunch of episodes reaching for something they can't always achieve. Sometimes a simpler concept that's easier to execute competently and results in a reasonably entertaining if average episode is better.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-10-04 03:50:48 +0000 UTC

For me this was merely C or almost D tier episode.

Kimmo Siniluoto

2024-10-04 03:43:49 +0000 UTC

There is a lot to love about it. I like the score too.

Mike Rogers

2024-10-04 03:43:24 +0000 UTC

My mom stockpiled so much canned food and other stuff expecting disaster that there was a noticeable bulge in the ceiling downstairs from all the weight on the floor above.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-10-04 03:33:33 +0000 UTC

Or intrigued by the prospect of being her plaything?😉

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-10-04 03:15:33 +0000 UTC

transporter buffer?

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-10-04 03:13:47 +0000 UTC

The heavy TOS tonal shift in this episode from the rest of the season makes it glaringly obvious this is an old, recycled script - and it is. It was written for Star Trek: Phase II. The bones are obvious, even with a new skin draped over them.

StealthMomo

2024-10-04 03:07:26 +0000 UTC

I loved the music cue when she’s on the bridge in uniform and says “we live in a universe of magic.”

tyranusfan

2024-10-04 02:27:03 +0000 UTC

S4E15 is half-way through.

Jovet

2024-10-04 02:16:20 +0000 UTC

Finishing S4E15 will be the half-way point for TNG.

Jovet

2024-10-04 02:15:02 +0000 UTC

@Jeffrey The extent of the technology Ardra had available to her was never fully disclosed. Your (5) is a point, but it would just be another example of technology the show "discovers" which should revolutionize things but doesn't. I always wondered where the people who were whisked away (the guy at Ops, Picard, Ardra) were while they were somewhere else.

Jovet

2024-10-04 02:09:41 +0000 UTC

(in Sulu's voice) Oh my!!

Jovet

2024-10-04 02:05:24 +0000 UTC

HAIL TRACKANON ! 🔺

Jovet

2024-10-04 02:04:56 +0000 UTC

The most exciting thing I got out of this episode is that Josh gave it an S! Lol can’t wait to see the reasons

Sixto

2024-10-04 02:04:27 +0000 UTC

@Target Audience It sounded like you were making light of the Y2K situation, not taking it seriously. That can be easy to do, twenty-five years on. But, at the time, a lot of people took it very seriously. And because of that, with lots of hard work, nothing much catastrophic to society happened. 25 years on, the sentiment that it was a big nothingburger seems common, but that is deceptive. People then really did not know what to expect, because the complexity of it all was hard to make predictions about. You can compare that chaotic complexity to the weather. The only way we can make predictions about the weather today is because of lots of practice and observation. Nothing like Y2K had happened before.

Jovet

2024-10-04 01:59:29 +0000 UTC

Dude, did Ardra give you a night visit for that "S" vote?

THE Fans

2024-10-04 01:57:38 +0000 UTC

I gave this one an A. It's not a great episode, but it's a court episode, it's a Picard/Data episode, and it mostly takes place off the Enterprise, which is refreshing (and not in a wasteland where people are dying). Just a fun episode, and Marta Dubois seemed to be having fun, which I think all guest actors should have. I mean, how many guests get to wear a uniform, even if only for a few moments?

wildhunt1973

2024-10-04 01:53:58 +0000 UTC

Nope. Couldn't have been muted (not sure how it would have such a function) if the team on Ardra's ship (presumably led by Riker) was listening to Picard the entire time.

Jovet

2024-10-04 01:46:41 +0000 UTC

I just noticed on this watch that Picard is imitating Q when he performs Ardra's illusions - He snaps to make them occur!

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2024-10-04 01:44:19 +0000 UTC

Oh man, a shit my pants back in 1998 when when Siskal threw Ebert off Hell in a Cell, and plummeted 16ft through an announcer's table

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2024-10-04 01:39:17 +0000 UTC

I love this episode and it’s one I watch repeatedly when I throw on TNG while I work or something. It’s just easy to watch fun and mischief. But I’d give it a B. Solid episode, definitely better than mid, but there’s no way it’s on par with Measure of a Man, Yesterday’s Enterprise, Best of Both Worlds, Family, etc.

Brian Moore

2024-10-04 01:35:58 +0000 UTC

I don't remember mid-season finales being a thing back then. It was just, you get so many episodes before the Christmas season sets in and nothing new airs because of holiday travel and such. They just started airing TNG reruns. Then there was the wave of new episodes after Christmas. There didn't seem to be a set number of episodes before Christmas or after. You just got new episodes starting in Sept, with the occasional week or two here and there where it was just a rerun. Then the Christmas break, then new episodes starting in Jan, with the occasional week or two here and there where it was just reruns. Then the long summer break, followed by new episodes in Sept, rinse, spit and repeat, from 87-94. I didn't even think of it as separate seasons. It was just a big long blur of episodes, until the episodes started to get increasingly lame (what we now know of as season 7) and I started mumbling that they should cancel the show before it got consistently bad. And then they did. But maybe I was just a clueless, low information TV watcher back then. EDIT: now that I'm thinking about it, back then I think the focus was more on sweeps week than a mid-season finale. I knew what sweeps week was, but the concept of a mid-season finale wasn't something I was aware of.

Scott Reeves

2024-10-04 00:54:24 +0000 UTC

1) The ability of Ardra's ship to disable Picard's communicator and door controls. None of what was shown should be able to interfere with that 2) Ardra's ship has the ability to block federation transporter technology? Nothing the engineering team can to analyze/fix it/work around it for hours while Picard and Data muck around on the planet doing court things? 3) What does the Enterprise think happened while Ardra's ship has cloaked them? Has their entire communication system been brought down? Do they only have 1 shuttle craft, and can't send another one outside the cloaking field to communicate with Picard? 4) Why does Data have to be impartial? We know (from the next episode that we know they have watched) that Picard can order him to lie. Why can't he - in the private conversation with Data - manipulate the situation? 5) Ardra's ship has technologies that appear to be huge counters to major pieces of Starfleet technology. Is Starfleet going to analyze and take advantage of that technology in the future? Since scanning for 'Z particles' apparently isn't normal, it seems that at least for a few encounters with future enemies that undetectable transports and blocking enemy communications and transports would be huge advantages in future military conflicts

Jeffrey

2024-10-04 00:35:29 +0000 UTC

You know what? After watching this episode, it could have fit perfectly into season 2. Look at the costumes and sets. Now revert back to the old uniforms and cinematography. It just felt like a season 2 episode, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

Chris S.

2024-10-04 00:07:24 +0000 UTC

We are aware it was a real thing so I’m not sure what this comment means lol

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-10-03 23:47:29 +0000 UTC

I actually got to meet Roger Ebert because he got really sick.

Mike Rogers

2024-10-03 23:45:37 +0000 UTC

Hehe, new here?

Column Meanie

2024-10-03 23:45:24 +0000 UTC

Out of curiosity, what plot holes?

Column Meanie

2024-10-03 23:44:33 +0000 UTC

Which is so incredibly tame by today’s standards, but they were indeed the kings of film critics (Ebert especially)

Column Meanie

2024-10-03 23:43:52 +0000 UTC

That's a nice cliffhanger for the discussion. I didn't remember this episode but it feels to me like a mix of a TOS god-character episode and a TNG courtroom episode. The bit of music that played when Ardra showed up sounded straight out of TOS.

Doug

2024-10-03 23:33:16 +0000 UTC

I am expecting Siskal and Ebert style fireworks. For those that don't remember, film critics Roger Ebert and Gene Siskal had a show that reviewed movies. The big fun happened when they disagreed on a movie and argue up a storm.

Mike Rogers

2024-10-03 23:23:48 +0000 UTC

It feels very Season 1 or Season 2-ish. On that scale I'd say it was a fun one with lots of great moments, but so many potholes you couldn't just blink them away.

Paul Hess

2024-10-03 23:15:07 +0000 UTC

Cutting that off where you did is absolute CINEMA

Matt Newmark

2024-10-03 23:12:13 +0000 UTC

Forget the presidential debates, seeing Alex and Josh argue between S and C tier is gonna be the fight of the century.

Deep Red

2024-10-03 23:08:38 +0000 UTC

Rare take Josh, and I voted A with you. What Trek boxes doesn’t this tick? It’s a great Trek trope, executed well in both acting and story progression, but still done in a unique way. I’ll bet Q was very proud of Picard knowing ASAP that Ardra wasn’t omnipotent.

Ross Townsend

2024-10-03 22:56:13 +0000 UTC

LMAO

Captain Proton

2024-10-03 22:53:47 +0000 UTC

There were even Y2K support groups. Support Groups. Those were unforunately real as well.

Chris Mickelson

2024-10-03 22:53:42 +0000 UTC

For me, it's a LOT of fun! I always liked this episode. I would not rank it as highly as an S. I would probably rank it around B+

River Acheron

2024-10-03 22:48:23 +0000 UTC

Mid season finale is a term and concept that did not exist prior to the 2000s

Derek Orr

2024-10-03 22:41:39 +0000 UTC

would

Captain Proton

2024-10-03 22:41:34 +0000 UTC

I know people like what they like. But I am literally stunned that people like this episode. It's in my bottom 10 TNG episodes ever with what I think is a weak plot full of holes and bad acting by the main guest star.

Jeffrey

2024-10-03 22:41:25 +0000 UTC

Maybe one of the first times I've looked forward to the discussion even more than the reaction! S vs. C???? Daaaamn, what a cliffhanger. I'm not saying this is "wait all summer for Best of Both Worlds Part 2" levels of suspense, but it's pretty good.

Ian Westcott

2024-10-03 22:38:04 +0000 UTC

I'm in between you guys on this one. B, I'd say.

Steve Boshear

2024-10-03 22:18:06 +0000 UTC

Always a B/B- episode for me. Really fun, but not exceptionable.

Lovok

2024-10-03 22:14:46 +0000 UTC

This is an S tier episode for me I absolutely love it

harrypothead42024

2024-10-03 22:14:40 +0000 UTC

I would rate it an S also, if I were afraid of angering Ardra.

Paul Hess

2024-10-03 22:11:34 +0000 UTC

Cliffhanger ending 👏👏👏

Alan F

2024-10-03 22:10:53 +0000 UTC

But they have, even just most of the first half of this season.

Paul Hess

2024-10-03 22:10:32 +0000 UTC

It’s an easy mistake to make. You try to write a C, then a backwards C under it, and you get an S by mistake.

Paul Hess

2024-10-03 22:09:43 +0000 UTC

Love what you love, all opinions count, but I’ve always found this one toothless. Picard and company never break a sweat, have no reason to, so the stakes feel low. Feels like discount Q. The cast and crew are so good at this point they can make filler like this enjoyable even passable.

Skipper Martin

2024-10-03 22:08:10 +0000 UTC

Believe it or not but you’re half way through TNG!!!

Reality Strikes

2024-10-03 22:07:54 +0000 UTC

I think this is maybe the third time I’ve watched this episode since it aired - and it will definitely be the last! By far the weakest episode of the 4th season and one of the weakest of the series.

Jonathan Llyr

2024-10-03 22:00:57 +0000 UTC

I was 12 for that new year. Went to a cousins house where all the family was hanging for the celebrations. As soon as the time struck midnight, me and my cousin flipped the breaker switches in the house lol

Ricky

2024-10-03 21:58:22 +0000 UTC

It was muted. Tap to mute/unmute :P There, I fixed it lol

Ricky

2024-10-03 21:54:26 +0000 UTC

Yes, it is from phase 1 and to me, has a distinctly TNG season 1 feel

Mike Rogers

2024-10-03 21:46:59 +0000 UTC

That’s a Goatse level spread in the rankings. Should make for a good discussion.

EnigmaticPenguin

2024-10-03 21:40:51 +0000 UTC

I sold tons of copies of a program I wrote that updated the clock on most pcs.

Michael Metrick

2024-10-03 21:39:46 +0000 UTC

This has always been a TOS -like episode for me. Catspaw comes to mind.

Michael Metrick

2024-10-03 21:36:12 +0000 UTC

Fun episode. Alex has a look of "what have I done?" with his C rank at the end there lol. I'd call this one an A so Josh is closer but S is getting a little carried away ;)

James Bottas

2024-10-03 21:34:19 +0000 UTC

Halfway point of Season 4 does put you exactly halfway through the full television run of TNG. And, since it's February of 1991, you're very quickly approaching the chronological mid-point of the pre-P+ era, too.

Avaria

2024-10-03 21:26:11 +0000 UTC

If you think this is an "S"... you aint seen nothing yet in this series. "Devil's Due" a freaking C- at best.

Tom Occhipinti

2024-10-03 21:22:15 +0000 UTC

I’ve always enjoyed this one, it’s not great or A tier, nah but it’s a lot of fun and it’s totally sold by the guest star. Solid B tier I think.

Darren Seal

2024-10-03 21:17:53 +0000 UTC

been spoiled by weeks of reaction directly following the show now .. boom missing :( KHHHAAAANNNNN

Lt Dan I scream

2024-10-03 21:17:49 +0000 UTC

And as TA member Nolan pointed out in the ratings for this episode, this story was already done to a certain extent in the TAS episode The Magicks of Megas-tu.

Collin Freeman

2024-10-03 21:11:07 +0000 UTC

I don’t agree at all about this show not working for TNG and without reading the behind the scenes details there’s really no hint this was a Phase II script. It underwent significant rewrites to fit into the TNG verse.

Column Meanie

2024-10-03 21:03:24 +0000 UTC

Yeah this isn't a finale of any kind*. It's just another episode.

Jovet

2024-10-03 21:02:13 +0000 UTC

💯 Yep, couldn't have written that any better myself.

Jovet

2024-10-03 21:01:15 +0000 UTC

Not really. There could no be an actor from that period with either name.

Eric Wilson

2024-10-03 21:00:48 +0000 UTC

S wow I'm shocked! :)

Josef Nitervol

2024-10-03 20:59:45 +0000 UTC

Would "break the 4th wall".

Collin Freeman

2024-10-03 20:59:30 +0000 UTC

Welcome!

Jovet

2024-10-03 20:58:26 +0000 UTC

Agreed!

Column Meanie

2024-10-03 20:57:26 +0000 UTC

It's always bugged me that Captain Picard taps his communicator right before he thanks Riker for activating Ardra's effects while he makes his points. The comm channel was already open, tapping it would have turned it off.

Jovet

2024-10-03 20:56:50 +0000 UTC

Oh my! S & C+! 🤯

Jovet

2024-10-03 20:55:49 +0000 UTC

Another recycled Star Trek Phase 2 story idea (like The Child in season 2). As such, it doesn't translate well into our cast now that they have become their own (and different) characters. This is D tier for me. The only redeeming scene is the opener with Data and Picard.

Collin Freeman

2024-10-03 20:52:46 +0000 UTC

I realize this is a stupid thing to talk about, but I want to address it since you brought it up here. This isn't quite the "mid-season finale." Now it IS the mid-point of the season. You are indeed haflway through S4 now. But as far as a mid-season finale goes, i don't think this is what it would be. Now, I know Star trek to this point doesn't do mid-season finales like some other shows do. Every episode is a new episode. But, I think if you were to count something as a mid-season finale. It would be an episode that is followed by a (at least) weeks long break. An example from another show (i know this is weird) is S3 of LOST, where in a 23 episode season, the mid season finale was E6. There were a lot of good reasons for this that dont matter here, but the point is that episode was followed by something like 3 months before the rest of the season was showed. Whereas here, the next episode was the next week. There was an episode that was followed by a (quick maths) 5 week break in this season. It was after E9, Final Mission. Usually with Star Trek the "break" happens earlier than halfway through because they take a break from Thanksgiving-Christmas and E1 is usually late in September. I know this ultimitely doesn't matter but I felt the need to clarify

Elway Simpson

2024-10-03 20:51:18 +0000 UTC

Holy hell, this will be an interesting discussion. Wow, S and C+. I've always viewed it as A-, B+ ish. It's a lot of fun (my guilty pleasure ep of the season) and they nailed a great story but I don't think it quite deserves the full A or S. And it's too good for C. C is like run-of-the-mill. This is above average for sure, just not exceptional. Looking forward to those rankings being explained. And I wonder if they rewatch it in the meantime if those rankings will change.

THE LORE!!!

2024-10-03 20:30:25 +0000 UTC

I always thought it'd be way funnier if when mentioning his long dead mentors he also included the actor "Patrick Stewart" or "Brent Spiner"

Eric Wilson

2024-10-03 20:26:51 +0000 UTC

Y2K was a real thing.

Jovet

2024-10-03 20:22:17 +0000 UTC

Well we need a Captain's Log entry, but didn't get one. (need a hypo of blue pill STAT) The sex scoreboard Riker 8 Troi 3 Data 1 Picard 1 Worf 1 Jordy 1 & 1 i Broccoli 2 i Chief 1 Keiko 1 extras: Picard did NOT get a +1 but should have. Let's list all those that WOULD have received a +1 today if they had been in JLP situation: Riker, Worf, Georgi, Data, Broccoli, Kirk, Scotty, Chekov, Bones, all the red shirts, and after seeing Star Trek V I think Uhuru too. Not sure about Spock but he would find it fascinating.

Prof Moff

2024-10-03 20:13:33 +0000 UTC

Great episode. And Audra is hot hot hot.

Monty Crawford

2024-10-03 20:13:24 +0000 UTC

great that a fan fav

Dark Kronis

2024-10-03 20:13:14 +0000 UTC

"Method acting? I'm vaguely aware of it..." 🤣😂

Jovet

2024-10-03 20:12:26 +0000 UTC

This is a fun one, But I rate it a B. Josh and Alex's deferring grades should make a fun discussion.

D Jammers

2024-10-03 20:05:19 +0000 UTC

Great episode it’s A tier for me

General Trelane

2024-10-03 20:02:35 +0000 UTC

Your TNG reactions are fast becoming a highlight of my week. Love watching you guys discover how great life on the Enterprise-D was.

ScotchBeard78

2024-10-03 20:01:09 +0000 UTC

I love this one. Not sure why, but the dance between Her and Picard is still fun to me. The back and forth and the then the final twist was great. Not a solid A but a B+/A-

Firekrys FWO

2024-10-03 19:35:32 +0000 UTC

I went B on this one because it is a banger, it’s obviously not one of the best of the series but it’s a good solid fun episode. I’m really surprised Josh went S. Nice TA Cliffhanger

Phil Ken Sebben

2024-10-03 19:33:12 +0000 UTC

Yes, we’ve already watched both

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-10-03 19:12:05 +0000 UTC

Jumped right to the scores because this one's a D or E for me. Can't wait to hear why you loved it (for real).

John M.

2024-10-03 19:08:35 +0000 UTC

Haven't watched yet but thanks for the free trial membership, can't wait to try this out.

Joshua Eidson

2024-10-03 19:08:02 +0000 UTC

Josh was feelin it but Alex wasn't...... I personally enjoyed the episode and thought it was fun but my opinion of it fell somewhere in the middle. I gave it a B.

William McRae

2024-10-03 19:05:40 +0000 UTC

Thanks! Are we getting the next one on Sunday still? I'm excited about that one. :-)

Eric Wilson

2024-10-03 19:04:24 +0000 UTC

UNCUT - Devil's Due (TNG S4E13) | Star Trek Journey 194

Comments

This has such an OG feel to it with Ardra.

You can change your ratings

Did she jeopardize her whole operation for PD?

Where’s the Discussion? I’m not used to waiting anymore..

That’s exactly what it feels like. Season 1.

I accidentally gave this a B in the ratings thread. It should have been a low C. It had good bits but also felt bland to me. I went back to edit but y’all had already watched it.

this is the first episode of TNG i ever saw when it originally aired. what a strange introduction it was. C tier only for the guest actress who really shines with charisma. the klingon devil design is cool. it really feels like it’s from season one in quality.

The anticipation as to why Josh gave this episode an S rivals the S3 cliffhanger!

And Roddenberry has some thoughts on religion…

I love this episode.

Did you say “reading book if you are smart”? That is a grim statement

Admit it. Josh gave it S tier because of the sexy devil lady.

Sometimes all you want is a REALLY good cheeseburger.

Remember, the guys grade the episode on what it tries to be. If it's executed well, that matters more than the premise being a home run.

Beverly and Ardra were both on the bridge

Good point, if she had Picard would have been in trouble

Ardra's plan would have worked just fine if she had stuck with it. Instead, her lust for what she is told she can't have (Picard) got the better of her, and she got greedy and reckless.

I believe that Ardra never even met Beverly.

It isn't that obvious to me. It is a bit of a stand-out, with the superstitious, religious, and preachy-environmentalist overtones. But I think it's a fine TNG episode!

This is the most "Harry Mudd" episode of Next Generation so far... a flim-flam artist capitalizing on the beliefs of another civilization for their own personal gain. She has a touch of charm and flair which makes her a bit of a likeable, if ultimately nonredeemable, character.

@paultardspambot *the devil

@marty63026 Except for the fact that Picard really was not into her. The pretending-to-be-the-devil thing was quite the turn-off for him. (As it would be for me.)

I also excuse this episode despite it being preachy regarding Saving the Earth.

This one is definitely a B in my opinion. It is fun and is entertaining but not some kind of amazing situation. The S was a definite surprise but we all have our weird episodes that are pretty mid that we love more than most other people

I don't believe anyone else has mentioned it: Despite how much I enjoy this episode, it's also fairly preachy. It's suggesting that we humans need to revert to an agrarian society to save the Earth. 🙄

Humbug!

Yup, honestly the episode works so well because Ardra has that X-factor about her. I bet Picard was secretly hoping to lose lol

An episode meant to be humorous and light can still be an S-tier. Depends on the value structure of who's rating it. Personally, I think this is a solid B+, S is definitely a surprise.

What does god need with a starship?

i'm not seeing the similarity. That was probably the most out there episode of TAS and thats saying something, but in that case the devil and the puritans actually were immortal powerful entities The only similarity was a trial.

and because there were such groups that helped people figure out how to fix their problems, nothing much happened. But this wasn't a case of alarmism. It was a case of real problem people took seriously and worked hard on to avoid any major ramifications.

Well the way Audra was so thirsty for Picard, losing did have an amazing consolation prize

That’s my guess

Oh and that dolly shot peering through the bridge wooden arch then swinging around as the crew comes down to take their stations, we see Audra fully for the first time as our crew does. Great direction.

I’m with Josh. This is what he like the most about Star Trek. Great characters in weird senecios trying to solve problems. The chemistry between Picard and Audra is awesome and we are kept in the dark until nearly the end how she’s displaying these ‘powers’. Great

Spoiler on the title bro

If Audra had gotten Picard’s Captain’s ‘log’ by becoming Dr Beverly instead of Troi this would have been a very different episode. Imagine Audra showing up as Dr Beverly at Picard quarters DTF, would Picard have realized it was Audra?

Technically they have 2 more episodes before the halfway point of the series. Because of the writers strike in season 2, there are 4 episodes less there than any other season. With 178 total, episode 89 (First Contact) is the series midpoint. But this is still the mid-season point.

I’ve been here for 3 years, if I’m not mistaken. Seasons 5 and 6 are rock solid. 7 falls a little bit, imo, but still strong.

This is one of the weaker episodes of the season. An S? For this? An episode about a scam artist who pretends to be the devil? Its meant for laughs. A solid C.

And here I was going to congratulate Josh for calling it off the top: "The MID season finale." Sorry, but as much as work is also likely to blame, I did nod off during this one... again. Also, actual congrats on makining it over halfway through TNG.

Court room episode in TNG=Immediate S tier from Josh.

I imagine this was going to be an early script in the phase 2 series given how often Ardra tells the audience what ship Picard is captain of.

For me this was merely C or almost D tier episode.

There is a lot to love about it. I like the score too.

My mom stockpiled so much canned food and other stuff expecting disaster that there was a noticeable bulge in the ceiling downstairs from all the weight on the floor above.

Or intrigued by the prospect of being her plaything?😉

transporter buffer?

The heavy TOS tonal shift in this episode from the rest of the season makes it glaringly obvious this is an old, recycled script - and it is. It was written for Star Trek: Phase II. The bones are obvious, even with a new skin draped over them.

I loved the music cue when she’s on the bridge in uniform and says “we live in a universe of magic.”

S4E15 is half-way through.

Finishing S4E15 will be the half-way point for TNG.

(in Sulu's voice) Oh my!!

HAIL TRACKANON ! 🔺

The most exciting thing I got out of this episode is that Josh gave it an S! Lol can’t wait to see the reasons

Dude, did Ardra give you a night visit for that "S" vote?

Nope. Couldn't have been muted (not sure how it would have such a function) if the team on Ardra's ship (presumably led by Riker) was listening to Picard the entire time.

I just noticed on this watch that Picard is imitating Q when he performs Ardra's illusions - He snaps to make them occur!

Oh man, a shit my pants back in 1998 when when Siskal threw Ebert off Hell in a Cell, and plummeted 16ft through an announcer's table

You know what? After watching this episode, it could have fit perfectly into season 2. Look at the costumes and sets. Now revert back to the old uniforms and cinematography. It just felt like a season 2 episode, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

We are aware it was a real thing so I’m not sure what this comment means lol

I actually got to meet Roger Ebert because he got really sick.

Hehe, new here?

Out of curiosity, what plot holes?

Which is so incredibly tame by today’s standards, but they were indeed the kings of film critics (Ebert especially)

That's a nice cliffhanger for the discussion. I didn't remember this episode but it feels to me like a mix of a TOS god-character episode and a TNG courtroom episode. The bit of music that played when Ardra showed up sounded straight out of TOS.

I am expecting Siskal and Ebert style fireworks. For those that don't remember, film critics Roger Ebert and Gene Siskal had a show that reviewed movies. The big fun happened when they disagreed on a movie and argue up a storm.

It feels very Season 1 or Season 2-ish. On that scale I'd say it was a fun one with lots of great moments, but so many potholes you couldn't just blink them away.

Cutting that off where you did is absolute CINEMA

Forget the presidential debates, seeing Alex and Josh argue between S and C tier is gonna be the fight of the century.

Rare take Josh, and I voted A with you. What Trek boxes doesn’t this tick? It’s a great Trek trope, executed well in both acting and story progression, but still done in a unique way. I’ll bet Q was very proud of Picard knowing ASAP that Ardra wasn’t omnipotent.

LMAO

There were even Y2K support groups. Support Groups. Those were unforunately real as well.

For me, it's a LOT of fun! I always liked this episode. I would not rank it as highly as an S. I would probably rank it around B+

Mid season finale is a term and concept that did not exist prior to the 2000s

would

I know people like what they like. But I am literally stunned that people like this episode. It's in my bottom 10 TNG episodes ever with what I think is a weak plot full of holes and bad acting by the main guest star.

Maybe one of the first times I've looked forward to the discussion even more than the reaction! S vs. C???? Daaaamn, what a cliffhanger. I'm not saying this is "wait all summer for Best of Both Worlds Part 2" levels of suspense, but it's pretty good.