PATRON TIER LIST - Star Trek TNG S4E10
Added 2024-09-10 12:05:00 +0000 UTCWhat tier do you rate Star Trek TNG S4E10?
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Comments
Just take this as the literal L that it is and we can all happily get back on the “is it S+?!” train.
Ross Townsend
2024-09-21 14:21:24 +0000 UTCExactly, we know this is not who she is
harrypothead42024
2024-09-13 19:11:07 +0000 UTCI agree totally I could believe this in season 1 maybe when character devopment hadn't happened yet maybe even season 2. But Deanna acting like this at this point was so unbelievable that it threw me out of the episode.
Christine Ester
2024-09-13 18:56:34 +0000 UTCC. Another base line ep. I do like Troi and I get why it's played the way it is but at the same time...meh
s0rd3z
2024-09-13 17:57:20 +0000 UTCWhat about Man of the People?
Samuel Morrell
2024-09-12 17:22:21 +0000 UTCIt's not good and it makes a character I genuinely like come off as a bitchy child and it doesn't ring true
harrypothead42024
2024-09-11 22:40:18 +0000 UTCI mean if that's what you prefer to see, I can't really argue with that. I like complex characters. Being blind or deaf is not often a "heroic" endeavor. And I especially like when Star Trek characters are driven to their breaking point. See episodes like Chain of Command or In the Pale Moonlight. Neither are heroic but are some of the best episodes of Star Trek, in my opinion. I understand if that's not to your taste, and I'm not trying to change your mind or invalidate that. This just appeals to my tastes. I find the heroism to be more compelling when the character initially fails.
Deep Red
2024-09-11 22:15:41 +0000 UTCI don't think I can get on board with that. We get joy from watching these characters heroically rise above their average human nature: seeing Picard be heroically principled, or Worf heroically tough, or Data heroically more than a robot. As both a betazoid and ship's counselor, Deanna should be able to heroically handle emotional loss. There needed to be some other way of showing us how devastating it was for her without turning her into a whiny bitch who immediately surrenders. And if not, then don't do the episode.
Dan Halstead
2024-09-11 22:00:27 +0000 UTCI hear what you're saying, but have you ever lost a sense that you have had your entire life suddenly? I really don't think most people would have taken that well. Especially because of the mind-reading component, this is how Deanna processes everything in the world. To just have that turn off would be so incomprehensibly terrifying. People are talking about the loss like someone developed athlete's foot. I've seen enough family members hospitalized or develop dementia and they were definitely "annoying" as you would say in how they dealt with it. Really can't say I would do any better
Deep Red
2024-09-11 15:45:20 +0000 UTCTechnically you are correct - but this another "layer" of Deannas charakter is an annoying one for the most people - and THAT is a clear mistake in storytelling. In this case, the mistake was shared by the screenwriter and the actress. - But insofar as the director is not bound to the script word for word (I mean “if” that is the case), he bears the final responsibility. But who is ultimately to blame is perhaps not as important as THAT a mistake was made here. And that is sad, because the idea of this episode is definitely S-tier.
Adam from Germany
2024-09-11 15:11:12 +0000 UTCAn A from me, i love most Deanna episodes, and this is my second favourite about her.
jon bolton
2024-09-11 12:07:57 +0000 UTCThis is probably one of the worst episodes in the series. Easily in the bottom 10. I don’t know if it was bad writing or a conscious decision on Marina Sirtis’ part, but Troi is absolutely insufferable here. Like J and A, I can usually find SOME redeeming factor in a poor episode - but not this one.
StealthMomo
2024-09-11 05:57:12 +0000 UTC| || || |_
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2024-09-11 02:55:54 +0000 UTCThis is hard to grade for me, because I really like the sci-fi aspects of the plot and how the problem is resolved, but the Troi character stuff really brings it down for me. I get what the writers were going for and I can understand Troi's anger and frustration, but everyone is just trying to help and she is so mean to them; it really bothered me as a kid, and it still does. I'd say C+ for me, maybe even a B- just because I like the sci-fi stuff a lot.
Ryan Caulfield
2024-09-11 01:02:06 +0000 UTCThe way Riker tells her off is the only thing keeping this one out of E tier for me.
Jim J
2024-09-11 00:46:48 +0000 UTCDon't care for this one at all. Low D for me.
Jim J
2024-09-11 00:30:52 +0000 UTCThe problem is this episode doesn't really make me feel for her loss, it makes me want to tell her to shut up. I thought her acting was terrible here and it made her hard to relate to. I get it, I get how losing that sense would be a huge deal for her, but she showed she had no real professionalism with her job, she was only reading people all the time. She made me think that any half bateizoid could' do her job now.
Eric Wilson
2024-09-10 23:14:24 +0000 UTCI love Troi episodes. Marina Sirtis was never give enough to do. It's A tier and everyone can just fight me if they don't like it.
Charlie's Illiteracy
2024-09-10 22:58:38 +0000 UTCI'm not saying it's bad because it's a Troi episode. It just seems like any time the writers produce a really sub-par episode, it's a Troi episode or a Crusher episode. Not all Troi or Crusher episodes are necessarily bad... it's just that a higher proportion of them are than say... Worf episodes, which are almost universally good. Troi has the added disadvantage that a number of her episodes include Lwaxana which in almost all cases (in my eyes anyway, and I'd say all, but I'm sure there's an exception somebody will point out to me if I say "all of them") degrades the episode. There are some good Troi episodes later in the series, once she had been established as an actual character, which at least these bad episodes serve to push her towards. There's one major event that I think makes her a real character... I'll mention it when it happens.
John
2024-09-10 22:14:04 +0000 UTCLOL
Jovet
2024-09-10 22:00:23 +0000 UTC👎
Jovet
2024-09-10 21:58:58 +0000 UTCYou're not alone! I think this is an excellent episode. It *accurately* depicts the human (or human+Betazoid) condition.
Jovet
2024-09-10 21:58:25 +0000 UTCExactly! This is her best episode, by far. It's amazing.
Jovet
2024-09-10 21:53:54 +0000 UTC@Lwaxana's Poolboy Both. She may have an "advanced degree" in psychology, but all of that goes out the window when you're the patient. Telling other people how to live it is a lot easier than living it yourself.
Jovet
2024-09-10 21:53:05 +0000 UTCLet’s agree that it was flawed writing. She certainly could have been written more sympathetically.
Raphael Gaytan
2024-09-10 21:52:49 +0000 UTCI suppose the idea is that Troi is terrified, but her reactions could have been written more sympathetically. If half of your nature was suddenly ripped out of you, then it would lead to unstable grief responses.
Numinous2019
2024-09-10 21:44:38 +0000 UTCTo paraphrase Josh from a few episodes ago, this one is "riding the D."
THE LORE!!!
2024-09-10 18:54:24 +0000 UTCLow C. Troi is insufferable in this. Only saved from a D by the semi-interesting sci-fi plot. Roll on Eps 11 and 12 though.
The Ninth Doctor
2024-09-10 17:16:17 +0000 UTCPoor episode. Troi is nasty and entitled and somehow compares losing her empathic ability to being blind. Riker was right when he said that she was now on equal terms with him and she didn't like it. It's unfortunate how the writers had poor scripts for Marina Sirtis as when she was given a great script (like in Face of the Enemy), she could be brilliant. I couldn't be friends with her as she would be (without consent) sensing your emotions and psychoanalysing you all the time.
Binty McFrazzles
2024-09-10 17:07:22 +0000 UTCit's a low B for me
Josef Nitervol
2024-09-10 16:12:11 +0000 UTCI’m being generous giving “The Loss” a C-Tier. Another patron mentioned that Troi is entitled and insufferable. I think that’s being generous. Troi is outright annoying in this episode! I’m tempted to use inappropriate language, but this isn’t a Whatever podcast! Damn, that Troi can be tough to love! 😆
Raphael Gaytan
2024-09-10 16:10:55 +0000 UTCIt would be S-tier, when it would be more about science fiction and mystery - but this is about Troys emotions in first place.
Adam from Germany
2024-09-10 15:58:59 +0000 UTCStill is. Guinan is the real counselor on this ship. Pour me a synthetic one bar keep, I've got some troubles.
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2024-09-10 15:47:01 +0000 UTCLosing her powers is like losing the ability to see... ...Sure glad they inserted a conversation between her and Geordi. Oh wait they didn't. The only thing 'lost' here was the potential.
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2024-09-10 15:45:28 +0000 UTCThere are enough good moments that pull this back up, but at its core its an episode that cuts down a main character and makes them insufferable. It exposes Troi as an elitist, entitled, incompetent, and she learns nothing and finds no growth at the end when things reset. C Tier - If I have psych issues I'm going to counselor Guinan, not Troi.
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2024-09-10 15:42:23 +0000 UTCA-tier for me, I love this episode
Phillip Grischa
2024-09-10 15:38:51 +0000 UTCAgreed! I’ve seen this episode multiple times over the years and I still can’t tell if we’re supposed to think Troi is overreacting to the situation (considering how she written) or feel sympathy because of the trauma. It almost feels like the writers wanted us to think Troi was being “bratty”.
Lwaxana’s Poolboy
2024-09-10 15:20:40 +0000 UTCRoll on episodes 11 and 12 🤞🏼
Jon1701
2024-09-10 15:18:18 +0000 UTCIt's a Troi episode, so you know it's gonna struggle to be any higher than a C.
John
2024-09-10 15:14:12 +0000 UTCI think C for this one for me, I don’t hate it but just feel it would benefit from being a multi episode arc 😅
Darren Seal
2024-09-10 15:02:36 +0000 UTCI've not watched the whole thing, so I won't cast a vote. It's just hard for me to get engaged in a story about Troi losing her powers when she doesn't use them much when she's there and when they would be useful she's out of the way so they don't solve the plot too soon.
Andrew Buel
2024-09-10 14:14:36 +0000 UTCThis is the most underrated episode of TNG so far. I was shocked to find that this was the lowest rated episode of the entire season. I really like when characters have serious flaws and seeing Deanna turn into a bitch is actually really compelling stuff and adds another layer to her character.
Deep Red
2024-09-10 14:08:09 +0000 UTCI'm surprised how many people here like this one. I do not care for it at all.
Jeremy S
2024-09-10 13:49:37 +0000 UTCI had heard that they considered making Troy's loss permanent that would have been interesting. Either way I think Marina Sirtis did a good job playing the situation.
Keith S
2024-09-10 13:38:19 +0000 UTCDamn, the ratio is against me this time. I gave it an A (provisionally). I didn't remember this at all, and then I saw another reactor watch this one, and honestly I liked what I saw. It was edited tbf, so maybe the full-length watchalong will change my opinion, we'll see.
JHVJ
2024-09-10 13:10:39 +0000 UTCProbably a hot take but I like "Loss". I think the concept of 2D-aliens is very interesting and I think Marina Sirtis gave a good performance. Would I have preferred that she were more professional about it? Maybe, but there are things that can really mess you up: I don't know that I'd be calm and professional had I lost my eyesight or a limb, for example.
Captain Proton
2024-09-10 12:58:37 +0000 UTCGuinan counsels the counselor.
Jovet
2024-09-10 12:48:46 +0000 UTCWhile I appreciate the struggle Troi has, it initially comes off as whiny. Some of us might seem that way if a similar situation occurred. She pulls it together later in the episode, but I think it’s a solid B. It does bring up the question: who counsels the counselor?
JP RFL
2024-09-10 12:42:30 +0000 UTCCertainly coming from Marina Sirtis who had not really been given a chance to spread her acting wings as much as most of the cast. Wesley and Geordi are probably the only lesser fortunate characters in that regard.
Collin Freeman
2024-09-10 12:40:33 +0000 UTCThe main Troi stuff is good coming from Marina Sirtis, but this episode falls into the "character-goes-blind-for-an-episode" trope that was popular in the 60's and early 70's (Operation: Annihilate anyone?). That said, without this A-part of the story, the rest of it really is too familiar and boring. C-tier.
Collin Freeman
2024-09-10 12:37:59 +0000 UTCSolid B. Marina Sirtis’ performance is great, while the B-plot pulls this ep down a little bit.
Bob M
2024-09-10 12:28:01 +0000 UTCLove this episode, rewatched it last night, Marina is superb, and the scientific concepts are interesting.
Paul Rymer
2024-09-10 12:27:48 +0000 UTCMarina sells this episode with great emotional range. Troi struggles with her loss and I'm with her every step.
THE Fans
2024-09-10 12:16:24 +0000 UTCSome of the best acting in my opinion.
Colin Fair Wells
2024-09-10 12:10:45 +0000 UTCC-tier for me. I prefer the TOS era when it comes to certain things... in the TOS era, the "ship's counselor" was a bottle of whiskey and a clout on the jaw.
Darin Wagner
2024-09-10 12:08:05 +0000 UTC
