FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek 181 - The Best of Both Worlds (TNG 3x26)
Added 2024-07-28 18:00:08 +0000 UTCPatron Takes will be a separate video most likely tomorrow
Comments
About the crater, in the final episode of S1 they are checking the colonies along the neutral zone and describe the damage which is similar. They discuss with the Romulans that who ever did it was more powerful then either of them. Then in Q Who when they first start scanning planets after Q tosses them across the galaxy they find similar planets and reference the same damage along the neutral zone outposts. So its there but the reference was very very light.
Brian
2024-08-09 05:30:53 +0000 UTCJust in case I missed it being mentioned, not only was Patrick Stewart at the end of his contract at the end of this season, but so was Michael Piller. Neither of them were certain if they wanted to return, so the episode was written with that in mind. Piller basically wrote his own career indecisiveness in to Riker. Also, fans kept telling Patrick Stewart that he ruined their summer cause they thought he was leaving.
Paul Noad
2024-08-08 03:23:25 +0000 UTCYour discussion on Riker moving up Spock was a Captain pretty much throughout the movie series and Chekov was a Commander from TWOK on so it’s not unheard of to stay in one place with your “team” where you are comfortable.
Philbot
2024-08-07 16:54:56 +0000 UTCI don’t really like cliffhangers I think it’s a cheesy gimmick. Some shows like Buffy and DS9 never really do a big season ender cliffhanger. Things will be left up in the air or unresolved, but you aren’t waiting all summer for a literal axe to fall. I appreciate that approach more than waiting for Riker to fire! 💥
Philbot
2024-08-07 16:44:18 +0000 UTCI always feel like Riker peaked in season 2. Performance wise like he was really acting then, but then he fell into kinda the stalwart Commander role just yelling out red alert! Belay that order! It seemed like his acting took a hit..
Philbot
2024-08-07 16:36:15 +0000 UTCThis was Riker's best moment, but I think Shelby was overall correct. For the rest of the series, Riker doesn't really do that much, and he just gets a bit more... staid, stolid, and boring.
Ian Westcott
2024-08-05 19:35:52 +0000 UTCI watched this as a child on a VHS video release and had to wait
Nathan Daly
2024-08-05 16:36:34 +0000 UTCJust a small comment, it's not so much about playing it safe, more about making the big decisions. That's why the ending is Riker having to make the final call of killing Picard rather than putting it off and trying a hopeless rescue.
Dazzler & Em
2024-08-05 10:26:48 +0000 UTCI don't really think anyone should be starting with Best of Both Worlds. You need to care about the characters, understand the Borg, and understand the technobabble so you know the consequences.
David Clamage
2024-07-31 21:17:54 +0000 UTCI am torn. One day for me it's Measure of a Man and the next it's Best of Both Worlds part 1.
Collin Freeman
2024-07-31 20:45:46 +0000 UTCbefore they used phaser with the same high frequency, but the last time phaser with different high frequencies, because of that they can defeat more borg. // for me to fire at the end was not the save choice. the save choice is one in that picard is not in danger, to beam a team over and try to rescue picard while the enterprise must stop following.
Redjac
2024-07-31 18:51:13 +0000 UTCIf that's what you call 'enhancement' you've got a gift for understatement.
Jovet
2024-07-30 23:05:30 +0000 UTCUmmm Because its a massive cliffhanger and the other season finales of TNG and TOS where absolutely not.
Derek Orr
2024-07-30 14:16:42 +0000 UTCWhy? They always did that between seasons.
Sam Langanke
2024-07-30 11:38:37 +0000 UTCI like "Picard" too.
T’Pynyn of Vulcan
2024-07-30 05:38:05 +0000 UTCI immensely enjoy your in-depth discussions. It's one of the many things that set you apart from other ST reaction channels. I have watched these episodes WAY too many times and I tend to see the same old tired themes during every rewatch. It is so refreshing to revisit them with fresh eyes and a fresh perspective. Thank you two for your dedication to Star Trek and to the quality of your channel. ❤️ 🖖
T’Pynyn of Vulcan
2024-07-30 05:24:45 +0000 UTChttps://youtu.be/Jyz2pVqrEkI?si=zsVmlswLvTnmbgOM
James martin
2024-07-30 05:04:34 +0000 UTCRemember that Riker was accused of "playing it safe".... "with this ship and this crew." The SAFE action, in that context, would be to hold off to try and retrieve Picard. Instead he gave the order to fire to blow the cube up.
Jovet
2024-07-30 02:45:57 +0000 UTCIt's not a problem, in my book. Tension-builder, mystery-teaser.
Jovet
2024-07-30 02:44:23 +0000 UTCYour first "comment" is spot-on. I don't believe that Riker was consciously compensating against Shelby's "playing it safe" criticism, but instead it was more important to the security of the Federation for them to try to destroy the Borg before they got to Earth. Your second "comment" is pretty good, too. 😀
Jovet
2024-07-30 02:37:40 +0000 UTCRiker choosing to fire is NOT the safe route. The safe route is trying to rescue Picard, not blow him up.
Jovet
2024-07-30 02:34:13 +0000 UTCI maintain those babies had been assimilated.
Jovet
2024-07-30 02:25:33 +0000 UTCI guess they're not wont for details.
Jovet
2024-07-30 02:23:36 +0000 UTC"Q Who" spelled it out even clearer: Worf: “It is as though some great force just scooped all the machine elements off the face of the planet.”
Jovet
2024-07-30 02:22:21 +0000 UTCAbsolutely
Jovet
2024-07-30 02:19:14 +0000 UTCThe end made me laugh so hard! Nice jobs guys!
Jeremy S
2024-07-30 01:57:06 +0000 UTCI think this first cliffhanger set the bar pretty high. I definitely think some part 2s weren't as good but others that were.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2024-07-30 01:31:09 +0000 UTCImagine a season where every episode is a cliff-hanger.
James Baloun
2024-07-30 01:26:16 +0000 UTCI've always thought of this episode as more of a Riker episode. It's about his choices and why he is still there and then he gets made captain so he gets to see it from that side.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2024-07-30 01:23:21 +0000 UTCYou brought up a good point about that though. There’s no logical reason why the Borg would keep the uniform in a drawer. Why not just vaporize it or recycle the fabric?
tyranusfan
2024-07-29 22:59:07 +0000 UTCThis episode started the trend imho that future 2 parters will have great setups but part 2’s that don’t measure up
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-07-29 21:34:03 +0000 UTCI think the best episode to start Star Trek with is Measure of a Man. It's very understandable without context, is memorable, is executed well, and really drives home that Star Trek is not just space lasers, but will often tackle difficult subjects that are applicable to the modern world. Also, epic Picard speech!
David Clamage
2024-07-29 21:24:46 +0000 UTCThey did mention it during the show
Derek Orr
2024-07-29 17:22:05 +0000 UTCNo
Derek Orr
2024-07-29 17:21:21 +0000 UTCUmm wtf? The fleet was not downsized after the alien bugs in season 1. And the Galaxy class is absolutely spectacular
Derek Orr
2024-07-29 17:18:22 +0000 UTCIm surprised you guys are choosing to wait a month
Derek Orr
2024-07-29 17:12:14 +0000 UTC"Maybe dramas were starting to do this with finales." Nope. Other way around. Star Trek did it and everyone followed suit.
Jeffrey P
2024-07-29 16:59:27 +0000 UTCYeah, I watched the Patron Takes video ;)
JD Nevesytrof
2024-07-29 16:39:49 +0000 UTCRiker wanted to be captain, but he didn't want to leave the Enterprise. At the end of this episode, he has..... the best of both worlds.
Blaine Martin
2024-07-29 16:26:40 +0000 UTCRiker wanted to be captain, but he didn't want to leave the Enterprise. At the end of this episode, he has the best of both worlds.
Blaine Martin
2024-07-29 16:26:02 +0000 UTCI never felt any "shock" was missing. Each clue leads to to the inevitable unthinkable reveal. Great storytelling.
Michael Metrick
2024-07-29 16:07:21 +0000 UTCI can't wait for The Wounded, one of my absolute fave episodes of S4 and TNG in general.
Clyde Frog
2024-07-29 15:35:39 +0000 UTCI think your background is a 3D rendering of the USS Voyager cargo bay that gets a bunch of Borg technology installed into it. I won't say why, but watching you two sitting in there is making me chuckle.
Clyde Frog
2024-07-29 15:33:31 +0000 UTC@31:05 The Borg have been referred to as space zombies multiple times in commentaries over the years, great call!
Jack Fletcher
2024-07-29 15:22:23 +0000 UTCThis one gets all the love for the cliffhanger, but in my opinion part 2 is actually better.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-29 14:03:24 +0000 UTCI really like Picard, and I don't think you can blame it for spoiling a 25 year old episode when trek fans are so knowleadgeable about continuity
paultardspambot .
2024-07-29 14:01:16 +0000 UTCThe crater in the episode's hook was a reference to the TNG season 1 finale where Federation and Romulan colonies were just "scooped up". Technically, the Borg have been teased since S1.
EnigmaticPenguin
2024-07-29 11:12:00 +0000 UTCThere are so many God-tier bangers coming in S4, my heartbeat skyrockets just thinking about you guys watching them all. What a time to be alive.
Paul
2024-07-29 10:35:03 +0000 UTC43:45 Remember that they are not going to fire phasers. Or torpedoes.
Jovet
2024-07-29 06:01:19 +0000 UTC36:36 Shelby was the Federation "expert" on strategy for combating the Borg threat. She demonstrated this later in several scenes, such as when she instructs Data to “...fluctuate phaser resonance frequencies. Random settings. Keep them changing. Don't give them time to adapt.”
Jovet
2024-07-29 05:53:40 +0000 UTCStar Trek is such a special series, it has FOUR first episode's to choose from. And an optional 5th if you add what Gene's preferred the 1st episode to be: "Mudd's Women."
Nolan
2024-07-29 05:45:21 +0000 UTCI tried pointing out the contact negotiations back in Sarek, but let's be honest, the doofuses running the franchise now really cut the tension by titling one of their series "Picard." Not only was it a garbage show, but it's poor decisions echoed back into the past. "Well, obviously Picard will be okay, there's a whole show about him." Fraking imbeciles.
Nolan
2024-07-29 05:41:56 +0000 UTCPatrick Stewart has in many interviews talked about his hiring on Trek, and how he really didn't want to do a tv series. Basically people convinced him sign the damn deal, you likely won't have to fulfill your full contract as the show is likely doomed, but might loose a year, but in the time your getting 52 weeks of pay (26 are at half pay for the initial rerun), all making more money then you normally ever earn for a weeks work. Use that money to keep you afloat for a few years while you do real acting.... Well TNG was never in danger of getting cancelled. So that contract was still there....End of season three is literally the first real chance he has to leave the show without breaking his contract. And TV did have examples of actors leaving series (including the leads just because they would rather do different work). I mean things like Dukes of Hazard had the two leads leave the same year, and the show continued, it bombed. Crap like this did happen. Now of course you're seeing it knowing they have 7 seasons. So that might make it seem like yeah the lead is going to be there. But there was a real chance (in the fans eyes) that Patrick Stewart (all based on how he talked about not wanting to do a series) would take his three seasons and run back to England and have the financial freedom for 7 to 8 years to simply due plays and not worry about the bills.
Mark Wood
2024-07-29 05:32:55 +0000 UTCI am really excited for you guys watching episode 4x2
Alecco
2024-07-29 05:32:33 +0000 UTC26:30 Yes you were. It was established in the earlier Borg episode when they analyze the first Borg-ravaged planet that they come across. Data says, “There is a system of roads on this planet, which indicates a highly industrialized civilization. But, where there should be cities, there are only great rips in the surface.” This is followed by Worf: “It is as though some great force just scooped all the machine elements off the face of the planet.”
Jovet
2024-07-29 05:32:19 +0000 UTC18:45 Don't start with episode 7. Start with Episode 27—cover all your bases! LOL!
Jovet
2024-07-29 05:31:27 +0000 UTC4:50 I've gotten better about many of the episode titles from following your progress. There are still some I get confused between, though, or can't really remember at all.
Jovet
2024-07-29 05:17:08 +0000 UTCEither way it works fine because it’s not a big deal and is just a specific preference I had
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-29 03:59:11 +0000 UTCThe crater was mentioned in the first season finale. They had suspected it was due to the Romulans. Then, in Q Who, they encounter another planet with craters and Data remarks that it was similar to the ones along the Neutral Zone.
Geoffrey Linehan
2024-07-29 02:39:01 +0000 UTCWorf says each phaser was tuned to a different frequency. So, they had a little leeway in taking down Borg.
tyranusfan
2024-07-29 02:05:24 +0000 UTCElizabeth Dennehy (daughter of Brian btw, who was the antagonist in Rambo, among many other roles) said later that her acting experience before this was largely in soap operas. On soap sets, you get your makeup done, then sit in your trailer for *hours* learning your lines while the sets are prepped. TNG was NOT like that. She got made up, and like thirty minutes later "we're ready for you!" She was mortified. She didn't know her lines yet, and her first scene was that one in Engineering with all the technobabble about the way Borg ships function. She apologized profusely to everyone, and every day after that, she made sure she knew her lines before the day started!
tyranusfan
2024-07-29 02:03:31 +0000 UTCOr what his role would be if/when he returns.
Jeffrey P
2024-07-29 01:18:16 +0000 UTCI want to defend the reveal of Picard's uniform a little bit. It comes in Act 5 after the last commercial break, with less than 5 minutes to go in the episode. It's not just hinting to the viewer that Picard's been turned into a Borg, it's hinting that Picard's a Borg AND there's no time left to save him. It was supposed to be a pit-of-your-stomach moment for an audience that didn't realize Star Trek could do cliffhanger two-parters, I think. Today it doesn't hold up, but back then I think it worked fine.
bab
2024-07-29 01:17:26 +0000 UTCPatrick Stewart was in contract negotiations at the end of season 3 so the writers literally didn't know if Picard would survive.
Jonathan
2024-07-29 01:15:46 +0000 UTCI watched this on first run. There were rumors and reports all season that Patrick Stewart wanted out of the show, and boy when this one aired fans went crazy. It was like a new pilot for Riker to be Captain and Shelby to be first officer. Even the producers didn't know If Patrick would be back. So the summer wait was terrible for fans.
Robert Sickinger
2024-07-29 00:44:56 +0000 UTCI am not ashamed to say, this is the episode that got me into Star Trek, like many people ( or so I heard ) then they had some marathon that happened in between seasons where I think I became a FAN! Love this episode! It is so great !
Sixto
2024-07-29 00:34:02 +0000 UTCRiker could make the big decision when Shelby couldn’t
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-07-29 00:32:56 +0000 UTCmentioned, not seen
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-07-29 00:12:12 +0000 UTC"GEORDI DOES SOME ENGINEERING STUFF" My brothers in Christ, this is the first Geordi roll.
Juan Tutrífor
2024-07-28 23:56:53 +0000 UTCThe first episode of Season 4 is indeed the vaporization of Locutus and the Borg. Then 35 minutes of the Ferengi stealing Lwaxanna Troi from Dr. Stubbs. That's when Star Trek really starts.
Juan Tutrífor
2024-07-28 23:49:55 +0000 UTCBut there's no way they could know that at the time
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-07-28 23:42:40 +0000 UTCAlso about the Enterprise crew facing off against Locutus. Arguably, the best of both the starfleet/borg respectively
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-07-28 23:41:22 +0000 UTCThe title refers to Riker. It refers to the Enterprise and the Borg cube. It refers to Locutus. It's called good storytelling when the answers are known. It's called great storytelling when people analyze your meaning for centuries.
Juan Tutrífor
2024-07-28 23:38:52 +0000 UTCIsn't the title refering to Riker? That he gets his own command and gets to stay on the enterprise. I thought thats what the title was all about.
Sebastian_Frodo
2024-07-28 23:14:41 +0000 UTCIn terms of ranking, I think you have to rank Best of Both worlds as one single two partner. Same as you did with the TNG pilot and TOS The Menagerie
Andreas Schmitt
2024-07-28 23:13:56 +0000 UTCRegarding the "fire".. they won't fire with the phasers. Remember Shelby, Geordi and Wesley suggested to reconfigure the deflector dish to fire a huge energy blast at the bord at exactly the frequency they're vulnerable to.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-07-28 23:11:10 +0000 UTCShelby was brought aboard because she was an expert about the Borg. She was in charge of developing new weapons to defend against them.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-07-28 22:59:56 +0000 UTCThe successful Phasers shots were obviously for the better action, but they DID have an explanation for it: The phasers were not all modified to the same setting, they all had randomized frequency in a band that they knew the Borg were vulnerable to. So the phasers kept randomizing inside that band, casing the Borg to take longer to adjust.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-07-28 22:44:50 +0000 UTC29:45
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-28 22:37:26 +0000 UTCVeteran film/TV/stage character actor. Chris Farley's dad in Tommy Boy. Sherrif in Rambo.
Jeffrey P
2024-07-28 22:34:05 +0000 UTCOk so here’s the thing…. I’ve never actually believed in the Mandela effect, but this situation might have just convinced me.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-28 22:16:17 +0000 UTCI don’t know who Brian Dennehy is
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-28 22:09:36 +0000 UTCThe discussion and reaction are filmed back to back, so this was filmed days before the reaction being posted.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-28 22:08:55 +0000 UTCRiker got to stay on the Enterprise, but he also got to be captain, the best of both worlds, only ironic because it meant the loss of Picard.
Nolan
2024-07-28 22:06:47 +0000 UTCThat one probably would’ve hooked us
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-28 22:06:00 +0000 UTCThe Cage was an abandoned pilot. All watching that first would do is give a false impression of what the series actually became and ruin the ending of the Menagerie. Airdate order is how the series was experienced by the original viewing audience. Why would a first time viewer want to miss that experience?
Lincynity
2024-07-28 22:05:43 +0000 UTCActually, the teaser was meant to imply the Borg, but it’s a hard one to get. In the season one finale, they are patrolling the neutral zone because they haven’t heard from their outposts and they meet the people from the 20th century. When they arrive at the neutral zone, Worf remarks that it looks like a giant force simply scooped the outposts off the planet. I also think you see a similar shot of a giant hole in the ground in that episode. The borg were actually supposed to be introduced in that episode, but, for various production reasons, their introduction was moved to season two.
Brian K
2024-07-28 22:01:31 +0000 UTCI'm a bit surprised you didn't mention the scene where Troi told Riker that it was inappropriate for him to lead the away team to retrieve the captain. It was only one scene for her but quite good. You can see in his face that the gravity of the situation is really starting to sink in.
Rogerbear60
2024-07-28 21:59:56 +0000 UTCIn the beggining, the Admiral explained Shelby had been the one to really set the Borg Task force on the right path and go from discussions to practical actions, and he was a "Borg expert" at this point who had been assigned when the Enterprise was sent to Jouret to investigate a possible Borg sighting. That location also explains why the Enterprise was the closest ship to the Borg, they were sent to where the Borg ad just been. Its kind of funny, most of the nitpicks you guys have were actually explained, you just missed the in episode explanations. An episode like this is tight, there's no wasted dialogue or scenes, so you can miss something if you're not paying attention to every line, whereas some episodes drag a bit more, they were really being economical with the writing her, every line and thing that occurred had a purpose for plot and characterization.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-28 21:53:22 +0000 UTCI mean the "shock" isn't supposed to be so shocking, its more "are they really going to do this" combined with the growing realization of the audience (at the time) that Picard may really be dying in this episode due to the contract rumors, only having the "to be continued" to find out what actually happens. This is a case where having that context really informs the reaction to the show and experience of watching it at the time. Its goo even without those, but those factors add to the cultural impact. I had tried to give you some of the background information trekkies would have been aware of going into the episode without anything about the episode itself, but that got deleted and was treated as violating the spoiler policy.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-28 21:47:38 +0000 UTCAs i said, people didn't know Picard was coming back, and while I don't know that it wa shocking at the time, this could be a case where via cultural osmosis and references and influence come here to make it more obvious then it might have been to the contemporary audience- Q Who might have thrown them a bit when we saw the Borg grow babies, without a mention they also assimilate humanoids. It's even mentioned in the episode "why are they interested in you, I thought they were only interested in technology?" "It seems there priorities have changed" as a bit of misdirect. Keep in mind, Guinan was off planet when her world was taken over, and people fleeing would not have necessarily realized what happened, just assuming there were no survivors. Guinan does not seem to know the Borg assimilate humanoids. Also, you guys keep talking about Guinan as "powerful." I don't think the show gives the sense she's powerful like Q, just that she's lived a long time and has senses that are beyond normal humanoids, not that she could snap her fingers and make the Borg cube disappear.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-28 21:44:02 +0000 UTCWhat about "The Cobimite Maneuver" the first regular produced episode?
Nolan
2024-07-28 21:37:06 +0000 UTCHard disagree. Would definitely have not been hooked by either of those
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-28 21:28:31 +0000 UTCas far as "hooking" someone the production order of TOS season 1 is probably the best as opposed to broadcast order. You start with The Cage and then Where No Man has gone Before which work even if you've never seen star trek. Watching Season 1 in order works better then the way you guys saw it as they introduce things and explain them, like the vulcan mind meld, whereas the order shown introduces and explains things you've already seen.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-28 21:21:40 +0000 UTCThe sets are supposed to look the same because the Borg ship is identical everywhere on its interiors except for the space in the middle.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-28 21:14:37 +0000 UTCNo, they weren't tuned to the same frequency, they were tuned to randomly rotate frequencies towards the upper band, which was the where the frequency of the Phaser that affected the Borg tractor beam was set to. At that point they were adjusting the phaser frequencies randomly, after that they set their hand phasers to rotate randomly WITHIN the higher band of frequencies which the Borg were more vulnerable to which is why it took the drones on the ship a little longer, but not much longer, to adapt, which they expected because a major aspect of the Borg is their ability to adapt quickly by channeling the collective intelligence of all their drones along with the advanced computers.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-28 21:13:09 +0000 UTCHey Haven, by all means, feel free to correct. I have to hold back sometimes for correcting folks on certain things, too.
Collin Freeman
2024-07-28 21:10:32 +0000 UTCWhen they went on the away team, they had rigged the phasers to randomly change the frequencies in the upper band, something Shelby suggested, which is why the Borg took longer to adapt. You guys missed that part i guess, it wasn't a mistake.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-28 21:09:43 +0000 UTCThe insect thing was a metaphor, there were both metaphor or similies. Sorry/not sorry I have so much to say on this one, but I figure separate posts are better then one huge block of text
paultardspambot .
2024-07-28 21:07:48 +0000 UTCinteresting note, originally the Borg were conceived of as being an insectoid techno-hive mind, the ones who had launched the Gillworms from Conspiracy who they sent the signal too, but because of budget reasons, they went with their current conception for the better. Originally, Season 2 was going to be the ongoing threat of the Borg, that was the showrunners idea, but the writer's strike made that impossible so they just introduced them. An original idea which Picard being assimilated came from was that they would "assimilate" Data because in their season 2 conception it wasn't yet decided they would assimilate humanoids, hence the "baby" borg. So a lot of happy accidents to get what we actually got. The season 1 finale was intended to go right into the Borg threat.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-28 21:05:50 +0000 UTCExactly. It’s a Riker episode.
Column Meanie
2024-07-28 21:01:48 +0000 UTCThe Borg turning Picard into one of them was absolutely a surprise. Up to this point we had no idea that the Borg could assimilate humanoids. All we knew was their ability to have Borg babies and also to scoop up cities (as mentioned in Q Who? and seen in this episode). While it is easy today in our post-Matrix, post Walking Dead world to make the guess of Picard being turned into a Borg, it really was something new in 1990 and was quite the shock. Man it was a loooong summer!
Column Meanie
2024-07-28 21:01:04 +0000 UTCThere was a crater in Q who, they scanned a planet and referenced it as being similar to the ones they had seen along the neutral zone in the season 1 finale.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-28 20:59:07 +0000 UTCThey mentioned suspicions it could be the Borg in the captian's log which you guys talked over, it was introduced immediately and they referenced the crater being similar to ones they had seen previously.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-28 20:57:56 +0000 UTC"you're the only ship close" Keep in mind the fleet was way downsized from the Gillworm invasion from conspiracy which seemed plausible as the federation was overly complacent dealing with only one thing (redacted) with the Romulans quiet and the Klingon alliance making them seem beyond threat. In my headcanon, thats why Utopia Planatia was committed to the boondoggle that was the Galaxy class instead of building up a larger fleet. The Enterprise is often outside Federation space or on the outer rim. Jouret 4 or whatever was an outer "newer" colony with only 900 people, and the first official sighting was from outside federation space, and they aren't near one of the heavily patroled border areas, so it's plausible the Enterprise would be the closest ship. For reference, there are maps of the Federation, and from one end of the other it takes rougly 2 weeks to traverse at high warp. Of course the Borg can move much faster then federation ships. There previous encounter took place in a distant part of the Beta Quadrant not far from where the quadrant starts. Guinan's reference to this being a dangerous part of space meant she knew they were at the edge of the range where the Borg operated, not that it was just "a generally dangerous" part of space, and as Picard mentioned, Q giving the Enterprise a heads up let the federation knew the threat wasnt far off, though they were stil surprised by how quickly the Borg showed up. Something thats hard to grok unless you've seen the maps is that though the federation is "large" compared to other civs, it still occupies a small area of space on both sides of the dividing line between the alpha and beta quadrant, the line formerly drawn at Earth though based on adjustments the Earth is actually slightly in the alpha quadrant. The galaxy does go "up and down" but the milky way is a disc, so it can be represented as "North/south.east/west" with SW being the alpha quadrant, SE Beta, NW Gamma, NE Delta. The Borg are mostly from the Delta quadrant but have made inroads to the Beta Quadrant. Going for Earth directly indicates they have seen the Federation as valuable resource/threat and are moving beyond thei "natural" path of expansion, but from the first season we know they've already been scooping up colonies along the Romulan-federation border, presumably the Northeastern part of that in the Beta quadrant, so their mode of expansion doesnt necessarily follow a path that is just "outward" but based on other considerations. This isn't really spoilers though a clearer picture emerges as time goes on, there were already maps of the trek galaxy at this point, they got refined as time went on.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-28 20:56:16 +0000 UTCI felt they liked it a lot more than I thought they were going to. Being a fan-favorite episode, they usually don't like those as much as the fans normally do. But I thought their reaction was spot-on. At least, I was happy with how they felt about it...for once.
wildhunt1973
2024-07-28 20:54:51 +0000 UTCThey mentioned when passing out the Phasers that each individual phaser would get about Two shots because they're all at different frequencies but all up in that high range that the Borg are less effective against
E Parhas
2024-07-28 20:51:57 +0000 UTCGreat discussion, and that ending really made me laugh. I do think this would be a hard episode to rank because the story is still incomplete. As for the Riker stuff, I never thought of his choice to fire as being "safe", though it could be interpreted that way. For me, it was less about the choice itself, and more about the act of making the choice that was important. The episode continually reminds us that Riker is "standing still", while Shelby is not. Yet, when a difficult command choice has to be made, Shelby is the one who wants to make delays or consult with the Admiral, whereas Riker makes up his mind fairly quickly and commits to his decision. Regardless of how risky this is or not, he stepped up and took action, thereby moving forward and standing still no longer. The admiral said that they kept pulling out the captain's chair for Riker and even though we don't know what will happen next, I think this moment is when he finally sat down.
Ryan Caulfield
2024-07-28 20:48:25 +0000 UTCShelby is a great character because the character herself is shown to be talented and competent. Yes, she’s a go-getter, and she’s after Riker’s job, but she’s also on “our” side— trying to save us all from the Borg, and she represents who Riker wishes he was. All those things make her super relatable, and a well-written character.
Nathan Billington
2024-07-28 20:43:31 +0000 UTCThe thing is, audiences at the time really didn't know if they were bringing Stewart back, and the contract rumors made that plausible. You're looking at it knowing Picard doesn't stay dead and from a plot perspective, but shows had to write out characters for contract reasons all the time back then, so it really seemed plausible Riker was going to take over as Captain with Shelby as his first officer.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-28 20:41:59 +0000 UTCCareful with dem fightin' words :D
Matt Newmark
2024-07-28 20:28:19 +0000 UTCI think all of your takes here are totally reasonable. Two comments: - Interesting that you saw Riker's final choice as the 'safe' choice. I've always seen it as a direct answer to Shelby's criticism that Riker wasn't ready to make the 'big decisions' because he was too worried about the safety of the crew. While everyone else is stalling and trying to figure out how to save Picard, Riker cuts through the shit, sees the bigger picture, doesn't hesitate, and makes the tough call to sacrifice Picard for the sake of humanity. - I totally get why the Borg reveal seems like an intended surprise that was too obvious now in 2024, but it's hard to overstate how different things were in 1990. All we knew was 1) the series wasn't guaranteed another season 2) even if it got one, Patrick Stewart was in contract negotiations and rumors were he wasn't returning. At the time, it was totally plausible that Picard would be killed off or turned into a permanent Borg guest star by the conclusion of this storyline. That gave the entire search for Picard on the Borg ship (including the finding of his uniform) a feeling of creeping dread - it wasn't a *surprise* that he was assimilated, but a horrible final confirmation that we hoped they had been faking, because it seemed extremely plausible that it meant the Picard we loved was gone forever, and the entire episode had been to setup the new dynamic of Captain Riker and First Officer Shelby for the next season.
Dor
2024-07-28 20:25:41 +0000 UTCBit of an English nut here.. more metaphor than simile, but it is really an analogy.
Haven SMM
2024-07-28 20:25:27 +0000 UTCI guess you didn't read all the comments from the initial reaction but here's the deal- there were rumors about contract issues with Stewart, in actuality they were resolved before the episode was made (and the details of that are told very differently by Stewart and the guy he was negotiating with, Stewart claiming the whole thing was blown out of proportion based on some minor drama with one episode where he didn't care for certain things which got turned into "stewart's not happy rumors." The guy on the other side of the conversation remembers it differently, that Stewart seemed to be setting up the idea he was unhappy to look for a pay raise and the guy called his bluff. At any rate, the issue was apparently resolved quickly, but the writing staff apparently had heard rumors that Stewart wasn't coming back, so they wrote a show with a cliffhanger they didn't know how they were going to end to acount for the possibility Stewart might not be coming back and had an epic send off for him if that was the case. At the time over the summer, trekkies had heard the rumors about Stewart possibly leaving the show, and there was all sorts of speculation about whether that was fake or they really were going to write him off the show, which added to the whole phenomenon over the sumer around this episode that got the conversation beyond normal trek fans. Keep in mind the last major two parter (not counting Twin Peaks which had a resolution 25 years later) was the "Who shot JR?" thing which ended with the disappoint "It was all a dream" conclusion, so tv cliff hangers were not the thing, and back then studios balked at even minor serialization with the idea being you had to draw new viewers and without the internet people who couldn't follow what was going on merely changed the channel to something else, so any kind of serialization was seen as very "risky." It was really this episode that cemented TNG as a major cultural phenomenon, with the show finding its rythm in Season 3 as Piller took over. Keep in mind also, most of these have seen these in reruns so many times we forget that season 3 was a bit more uneven then we remember it, because we see the episodes in syndication out of order, and watching them now as they were seen, it becomes more apparent that while season 3 was when they found their footing, they were still working out the kinks, and season 4 through six were perhaps more consistent. This finale was also the one where the "new star trek sucks" people who had "given up on the show" were brought back on board and it kind of stopped living in the shadow of TOS.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-28 20:22:11 +0000 UTCThanks. I figured someone would but there were a LOT of comments to go through and that was only after a single day.
Jeffrey P
2024-07-28 20:22:10 +0000 UTCI'm not saying this show invented the big season-ending cliffhanger, but it was extremely influential to the industry. I wouldn't doubt if Infinity War took inspiration from it.
JGoss
2024-07-28 20:19:16 +0000 UTCRemember those babies? Those weren’t the Borg’s babies. Well… they are now.
Frank Ayer
2024-07-28 20:14:22 +0000 UTCSo good it got its own CD release
JGoss
2024-07-28 20:12:37 +0000 UTCAgreed on that point, but for me it’s a very minor error in an otherwise excellent episode
Collin Freeman
2024-07-28 20:09:21 +0000 UTCThanks. I made mention of it in the Patron takes.
Collin Freeman
2024-07-28 20:07:41 +0000 UTCMore likely his stand in who filled a couple of other roles in the series when he wasn't doing Spiner's reshoots. Any time you see Data exclusively from the back it's him.
Jeffrey P
2024-07-28 20:05:51 +0000 UTCHaven't watched the whole reaction, but would be interesting to hear from the perspective of how had you seen it back then, would you have wondered, given the rumors going around at the time, if Picard was going to be written off the show with Riker the new captain and shelby the new first officer with tension between the two, how you would have felt with that idea going forward.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-28 20:03:52 +0000 UTCOther people have said this, But i don't see Riker's choice as being "the safe one", its having to make the big decisions- sacrificing Picard for the good of the federation.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-28 20:01:03 +0000 UTCmaybe mentioned, but "The Best of Both Worlds" both refers to the Enterprise as the best of the Federation vs the Borg cube that has been prepared based on their last encounter or invasion and assimilation of the federation while also referring to Riker getting to stay on the Enterprise but as its captain, with the twist being its his ideal situation sort of, but under the worst circumstances (not from Picard being promoted and Riker replacing him but from Picard being assimilated and Riker having to deal with arguably the biggest crisis the Federation has ever faced. If you want to look even a little deeper, its also "the best of both worlds" in terms of character story and legitimate sci fi action threat.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-28 20:00:08 +0000 UTCRiker's only choice was to fire and potentially sacrifice Picard. As they said, it seemed likely that was their only chance of destroying them. If they went back into warp, they couldn't have caught them, which could have led to them attacking Earth. But he also just decided, "We have to kill Picard." I don't know about "safe", but it can't be an easy choice for him.
Joe Concepts
2024-07-28 19:58:20 +0000 UTCI didn't see it in Patreon Takes so apologies if I'm repeating someone, buy Elizabeth Dennehey is the daughter of actor Brian Dennehey.
Jeffrey P
2024-07-28 19:56:53 +0000 UTCre: the phasers - right before they beam onto the Borg ship, Shelby says the phasers have each been tuned to different high range frequencies, so they'll get 1-2 shots out of each one before the Borg adapt. If you count shots in the action scene, they each get two.
Dor
2024-07-28 19:55:11 +0000 UTCI think the uniform reveal would have been fine, even ominous if they hadn't already shown Picard arguing with the Borg. They should have gone with one or the other, using both drained the tension.
Lincynity
2024-07-28 19:52:01 +0000 UTCShelby was there because she was part of Starfleet's Borg "task force." They had been working on coming up with defenses against them and she was one of the main members of that team.
Joe Concepts
2024-07-28 19:49:58 +0000 UTCThe best of the Borg, vs. the best of Earth.
Angelaina Marie
2024-07-28 19:47:47 +0000 UTCThe title Best of Both Worlds is from the Borg's perspective. They are adding humanity's distinctiveness to their own.
Jeffrey P
2024-07-28 19:46:11 +0000 UTCI knew they wouldn't like it as much as people did...I hoped they would though. To answer your question on why they were able to shoot more Borg before they put up shields while they were in the Borg ship...this is because Shelby had instructed for the phasers to have "shifting frequencies and modulation" as it were, this would give them more time before the Borg could adapt to one frequency
C_Drew
2024-07-28 19:45:56 +0000 UTCIt's multiple things. It's also about Riker
Andreas Schmitt
2024-07-28 19:39:31 +0000 UTCEach phasor was set uniquely. Shelby said each phaser gets 1 to 2 shots each before they adopt.
Shawn Indigo
2024-07-28 19:37:46 +0000 UTCI will agree here, especially watching it with newbies, that showing Picard's uniform was too much of a clue to show. They should've just stuck with, "We can't find him." Or maybe just show his communicator? It builds more tension, but kind of gives it away.
Joe Concepts
2024-07-28 19:31:58 +0000 UTCyeah never heard that until now. where did they get that info from?
Narnman
2024-07-28 19:29:11 +0000 UTCI don't usually comment, but I just had to on this one. I can see why Josh and Alex are assuming that Riker's command to fire at the end was playing it safe. However, it was absolutely the correct Command Decision. His priority was to stall the Borg and protect Earth. Even Picard would have done the same. His playing it safe is also a perception that is exacerbated by the go-getter, gung-ho Commander Shelby. She is much like Riker was when he was brought on as Number One. However, he has grown now into more of a Captain's mentality. Where he is now more able to discern when the risk is worth it and when it is not. I think the discussions with Troi and Picard lay the foundation for this. However, Riker is also able to see how he has changed and is not that risk taker as he had been and is doubting himself. However, when put into the command situation he is ready for the job, no doubt. I won't say more because there is still a second half to go. I'm sure I will add more after that.
Haven SMM
2024-07-28 19:27:08 +0000 UTCNice cliffhanger, guys. The special effects of the nebula were recycled from Wrath of Khan, but were enhanced.
KatWithAttitude
2024-07-28 19:24:03 +0000 UTCTo be continued???? Talk about blue-balled.
Collin Freeman
2024-07-28 19:23:19 +0000 UTCThere WERE rumours flying around at the time about Picard actually being killed off for real. Nobody knew anything!
Ee'char
2024-07-28 19:23:05 +0000 UTCWhen my daughter was 4 she saw a scene of Picard as a Borg from this episode and suddenly became interested in Star Trek. Before that it was only Star Wars (the real Star Wars - theatrical versions of the first three) and Harry Potter. I couldn't get her interested in Star Trek at all. Once she saw that, we watched these episodes and she started watching more TNG. Eventually she saw TOS and, like all highly intelligent people, she liked TOS better, but still liked TNG.
Edweirdo
2024-07-28 19:16:50 +0000 UTCIt’s been decades, and I STILL don’t understand what the title means.
Tom Occhipinti
2024-07-28 19:16:45 +0000 UTCThere was a crater in qwho and neutral zone
Warpiggaming
2024-07-28 19:15:18 +0000 UTCSomeone brings it up in the patron takes
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-28 19:14:50 +0000 UTCI believed it was him for quite a while but couldn't prove it (and couldn't understand why it was hard to find out) I've later formed the opinion it was a regular extra who was one of his doubles perhaps. But the first Borg we see in engineering looks a lot like Brent Spiner. I can understand the confusion on this.
Lincynity
2024-07-28 19:10:39 +0000 UTCTo be continued haha! You got me!
Jiri Luza
2024-07-28 19:10:09 +0000 UTCLooking back, I remember getting that right away, BUT it could have been helped along by knowing that it was going to be a Borg episode in advance.
Joe Concepts
2024-07-28 19:09:55 +0000 UTCThe Neutral Zone
Sharron
2024-07-28 19:08:04 +0000 UTCThe cameo from riker's trombone in the poker scene - top tier tv
SinocTheHodgeheg
2024-07-28 19:07:02 +0000 UTCOk lots of comments from me on this one. I can't believe you guys didn't talk about the score! It is so unique and ominous, gives a real sense of weight and doom to the episode.
Kinoko
2024-07-28 19:01:38 +0000 UTCIn regards to the hook, I'm guessing they wanted to front load the commercial time instead of going to commercial at the end and breaking the tension.
Stephen Wright
2024-07-28 19:00:36 +0000 UTCI was always taught simile is when something is SIMILAR to, metaphor is when something stands in FOR something.
JD Nevesytrof
2024-07-28 18:59:34 +0000 UTCThis episode spoiled season finales for me, especially since I've been watching Arrow (Season 3 and 4) and The Flash (Seasons 3/4/5) where the season ended with nothing to look forward to
Ee'char
2024-07-28 18:57:00 +0000 UTCGood call on the simile and methaphor terms, Josh.
Collin Freeman
2024-07-28 18:56:22 +0000 UTCSpiner did not play a drone, either here or in Q Who
JD Nevesytrof
2024-07-28 18:48:33 +0000 UTCThe end of season cliffhanger was not totally new by the time Best of Both Worlds first aired (Dallas - Who Shot JR in 1980), but it had not been done much and because the previous 2 seasons did not end on cliffhangers, this completely caught us audience members by surprise. Behind the scenes was the situation with Patrick Stewart and Michael Pillar trying to decide to stay or leave the show, which others have gone into in other comments.
Collin Freeman
2024-07-28 18:45:12 +0000 UTCIt was said, that each phaser could kill 2 Borg. They modulated each phaser to a different frequenzy
Yannik M.
2024-07-28 18:45:00 +0000 UTC"That was definitely Brent Spiner as one of the Borg..." Excuse the eff what??
JD Nevesytrof
2024-07-28 18:44:46 +0000 UTCThe phasers were tuned to different high range frequencies, but it is also true they probably killed more than they should have been able to before the Borg adapted. It isn't really explained, I have always assumed that the nodes they destroyed slowed down the information assimilation capabilities of the Borg in that area.
LMPGames
2024-07-28 18:43:17 +0000 UTCThey specifically said each phaser on the away team was configured separately and would get 1 or 2 shots at most and everyone got off at least one shot so the amount of drones downed was indeed consistent
JD Nevesytrof
2024-07-28 18:40:56 +0000 UTCThe best way I describe the Borg is "Mechanical Zombies"
Christopher Dorn
2024-07-28 18:40:52 +0000 UTCIt is fascinating that people try so hard to make the title be about the Borg. " The best of both worlds" is a very common idiom (similar to "have your cake and eat it too") referring to compromise/getting what you want. With Picard gone, Riker gets to be Captain and stay on the Enterprise. It's that simple.
THE LORE!!!
2024-07-28 18:40:37 +0000 UTCI don't think we were supposed to know. But in the episode where the Romulans were reintroduced, when doth the Romulans and the Federation were investigating missing colonies the Romulan captain says their colonies "were scooped " off the surface. So I think the writers were connecting those two incidents. But in the original episode we did not know it was the Borg.
Kinoko
2024-07-28 18:31:37 +0000 UTCNo crater in Q Who or The Neutral Zone, but both episodes did mention outposts being 'scooped off' the surface of planets. Easy one to miss though, and something they maybe could have added a line into the hook.
The Ninth Doctor
2024-07-28 18:23:58 +0000 UTCGlad you enjoyed it, I think my favourite scenes are between Riker and Shelby. Something season 3 did really well was to build on the lore and the universe the stories are taking place in.
Paul Rymer
2024-07-28 18:23:51 +0000 UTCBest of Both Worlds - Riker moves to Captain but also Captain of the Enterprise.
Stephen Wright
2024-07-28 18:20:25 +0000 UTCRiker steps out of his comfort zone in this episode
Christopher Dorn
2024-07-28 18:18:32 +0000 UTCNot sure if this was covered in the Patron Takes, but a lot of Riker in this is Michael Piller himself. He was contracted for just the one season, and his angst over leaving and doing something else or staying was put into Riker.
JGoss
2024-07-28 18:17:46 +0000 UTCTo me though, the ideal title would have been Turning the Page, because not to specify anything, this is THE pivotal episode for the future of Star Trek from this point forward. Not talking about content specifically, but the franchise finally starts to incorporate serialization of storylines which becomes very, very important.
JD Nevesytrof
2024-07-28 18:17:27 +0000 UTC"Best of Both Worlds" : Picard is the best of us and the "best" (Locutus) of the Borg. Also, Riker is at the top, but doesn't have to make the big decisions because Picard is his safety net. It's the best of both worlds? That's my take.
StonyD
2024-07-28 18:16:51 +0000 UTCThe only thing I don't like about Best of Both Worlds is the title. To me it's just nonsensical and has been ever since the series aired. Although at least it doesn't give anything away when the title drops at the start of the ep.
JD Nevesytrof
2024-07-28 18:14:40 +0000 UTCI think the title "Best of Both Words," refers to how the Borg are both technological and biological so they are fusing together these 2 words. the Borg themselves are trying to become the "Best of Both Worlds."
Kinoko
2024-07-28 18:13:52 +0000 UTCIf there was ever an episode that deserved three videos, it's this one
JGoss
2024-07-28 18:12:51 +0000 UTCGuys, I gotta say. The little skits/bits you have going on are absolutely great. They give me a smile.
Mara
2024-07-28 18:07:12 +0000 UTCI just said to my brother if we started watching a movie the BOBW discussion would drop. 3 notes of the production company's jingle.... 😆
Lincynity
2024-07-28 18:03:49 +0000 UTCNearly 47 minutes ...... nice. IYKYK
JGoss
2024-07-28 18:03:44 +0000 UTCI was just thinking, how can I spend 45 or so minutes not remembering that I have to go to work tomorrow... Here's the perfect solution!
Leyton Jay
2024-07-28 18:03:17 +0000 UTC
