UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TNG S3E24 - Ménage à Troi
Added 2024-07-21 11:41:13 +0000 UTC
Comments
Am I late to the party but did Josh ACTUALLY already watch TNG?
A G
2024-07-27 18:52:14 +0000 UTCWorking title: “Piece of Mind.” From my YouTube comment on your reaction to “Return to Tomorrow”: “When Barrett appeared at Star Trek conventions in the 1970s, fans expressed surprise at how beautiful she was (and she was, indeed, a stunningly beautiful woman); they disliked Chapel so much or found her so uninteresting that they could not perceive Barrett’s beauty in that role. The Star Trek franchise would eventually make recompense to Barrett for all of this; explaining how would get us deep into spoiler territory.” What I meant on that occasion should now be clear. Majel Barrett’s performances in Star Trek (with the arguable exception of her first appearance, “The Cage”) have always been excellent, but “Ménage à Troi” features her best acting so far and showcases her at her most devastatingly beautiful. In this episode Lwaxana Troi is, indeed, more lovely and more temperate than a summer’s day. The picnic scene on Betazed, with Lwaxana in her most spectacular outfit and Barrett, Frakes and Sirtis at their most attractive, is possibly the most visually sumptuous scene in the entire Star Trek franchise up to this point. “Ménage à Troi” is another “Let’s Do” episode, this time taking inspiration from the O. Henry short story “The Ransom of Red Chief,” about a hostage situation in which the kidnapping victim, a spoiled little boy, becomes too much for his captors to handle. Henry, the author of “The Gift of the Magi” and “The Last Leaf,” was the M. Night Shyamalan of his day, known for his twist endings. Susan Sackett, the co-writer of this episode, was Gene Roddenberry’s personal executive assistant and a production associate for the first five seasons of TNG. She was also Gene’s longtime mistress, making it bizarre and surreal that she co-wrote an episode guest-starring Gene’s wife and presenting her character in a sexualized way. According to Wikipedia, Sackett appeared on two episodes of "Jeopardy!" in 1986, winning $6,400 and a trip to Honolulu. Gene Roddenberry himself added the “oskoid,” the fruit Lwaxana offers to Riker, to the script, initially describing it as having a distinctly phallic appearance. “Ménage à Troi” features the first on-screen depiction of Lwaxana and Deanna's home planet, Betazed. The spectacular location is the 120-acre botanical garden at the Huntington Library in San Marino, California, which the scenes make me wish I could visit on my next vacation. Nibor, the Ferengi with whom Riker plays chess, pronounces "human" as "hew-mon" (spelled "hyoo-man" in the script), an interesting verbal eccentricity. In one of TNG’s most prominent anime references, the opening words of DaiMon Tog’s access code are “Kei, Yuri,” the names of the two main characters of the "Dirty Pair" franchise. This episode’s most iconic scene is Picard’s climactic demand for Lwaxana’s return, during which he utilizes quotes from Sonnets 147, 141, 18 and 116 by Shakespeare, as well as from "Othello," Act V, Scene ii, and from Alfred Lord Tennyson’s “In Memoriam.” An easy-to-miss joke is Lwaxana’s comment, “I’d love to hear more of your poetry,” implying that, as an alien, she assumes the poems are by Picard himself. Patrick Stewart would later play the title role of "Othello" in Washington, D.C., in a “photo-negative” production in which all the other cast members were Black. An obvious omission in the conclusion of “Ménage à Troi” (which seems to have at least one too many endings) is a button on Lwaxana and Deanna’s relationship within the episode. The Final Draft script included such a button, a moment after Picard orders course set for Betazed with Lwaxana thinking at Deanna, “There’s so much to talk about, Deanna… such as your future. Reittan Grax was telling me the other day that he has the nicest nephew…” Frank Corsentino (DaiMon Tog) previously played DaiMon Bok (the Ferengi captain who wanted revenge on Picard for his son’s death) in Season 1’s second Ferengi episode, “The Battle.” Ethan Phillips (Farek) appeared in the 1985 "Twilight Zone" episode “Devil’s Alphabet.” Among many other roles, he later appeared in “We Interrupt This Program,” the Apollo 13 episode of the HBO miniseries "From the Earth to the Moon" (in my opinion, the weakest episode of that series, although not due to the acting). Despite the Ferengi makeup, most members of the Target Audience will recognize his voice, for reasons I cannot yet explain.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-07-27 15:54:21 +0000 UTC"😠 what are you watching?" "😳 It's Star Trek, dad! It's Star Trek!!" This was one of those fun, goofy episodes back when I was a kid, but even then the Ferengi were pretty cringeworthy in this one in particular. I do appreciate that Lwaxana shows how much she cares about Deanna in this one. Yeah she's being really pushy and controlling, and she does need to back off, but it's not coming from a bad place. She really does want the best for her daughter. It's funny she refers to Deanna as "little one", given that 17 years later, Marina Sirtis voiced the mother of one of your squad members in Mass Effect, and she refers to her daughter as "little wing". Best part of this episode was Patrick Stewart hamming it up especially in the Shakespeare monologue. He clearly had a ton of fun with that. It's also a great moment when he promotes Wesley to a full ensign. He's still have to go to the academy as they said, but he get to enjoy the privileges of the rank till then. Of course, they obviously didn't want to write Wesley out of the show, but real talk, he could have just beamed aboard the Bradbury and done a little video conference with Data and Geordi from there to figure out the pattern. On balance I'm somewhat neutral on this one. It's got things I groan pretty hard at, but it's got other stuff that's still pretty fun. Not a highlight of the season by any means.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-07-23 07:41:32 +0000 UTCMcCoy "Angels and ministers of grace, defend us"
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-07-23 03:06:58 +0000 UTCWho?
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-23 02:12:12 +0000 UTCOne thing I hate as an addition to the Ferengi characters is the weird creepy lusting over women. Trek in the future does do a lot of different things with the race, but I hate that part of it.
Joe Concepts
2024-07-23 01:05:26 +0000 UTCThe only thing I remembered about this one was “Set course for Betazed….Warp 9.” 😂
Richard Finch
2024-07-23 00:51:06 +0000 UTCIt amazes me that you can remember the name of the Selay, but you draw a blank at recalling Majel Barrett’s name.
Geoffrey Linehan
2024-07-22 22:48:59 +0000 UTCEarly 90s fashion was very extra!
Miah1138
2024-07-22 14:53:05 +0000 UTCOh yeah, totally
E Parhas
2024-07-22 08:35:26 +0000 UTCMaybe women getting told they should "lighten up" when they point depictions like this out is why it continues to be prevalent in society today.
Lincynity
2024-07-22 08:09:59 +0000 UTCFor all the good times they had?
Jovet
2024-07-22 07:26:30 +0000 UTC“I'm just thinking that I'm saying goodbye to you as you are today.” A profoundly-written line.
Jovet
2024-07-22 07:24:49 +0000 UTCWhen I was younger I always liked this episode for.........reasons
E Parhas
2024-07-22 07:15:28 +0000 UTCRon Jones almost made Wesley cool. Almost
JGoss
2024-07-22 06:16:54 +0000 UTCI used to hate Lwaxana episodes, but now I find Manhunt and this one among my favorites for just being good, goofy fun.
JGoss
2024-07-22 06:16:30 +0000 UTCThe Academy is a 4 year program. You earn a bachelors (or whatever they call it in the 24th century) and become commissioned as an officer in Starfleet. It works that same as the US Naval Academy, Air Force Academy, Westpoint, etc etc...and yeah, terrible episode.
Aaron Wells
2024-07-22 04:58:26 +0000 UTCYou are taking it too far. The episode doesn’t say it is acceptable, which is the whole point. The only ones who see it as acceptable are the villains of the story. Again, the whole point. And Lwaxana didn’t pimp herself out. She kissed the troll and rubbed his ears. She used his weakness against him.
Column Meanie
2024-07-22 04:52:50 +0000 UTCGreat reaction! I was giggling with you two through the whole episode.
T’Pynyn of Vulcan
2024-07-22 02:31:05 +0000 UTCThese openings, lmfaoooooo
LMPGames
2024-07-22 02:01:34 +0000 UTCDeanna was yelling at her mother to let her make her own choices and live her own life, and then next she's suddenly doing exactly what her mother suggested. Also, why does Picard deliver the fact that Deanna is suddenly taking shore leave and why does he suggest that Riker do the same with a grin? Riker and Deanna weren't dating in previous episodes.
Andrew Richardson
2024-07-22 01:17:42 +0000 UTCOh, I'm sure it was, and I recall Wil telling the story in interviews at the time quite fondly. It was the change of costume that he wasn't impressed with. (the producers apparently told him that was going to happen when he asked if his character was going to have anything to do...he was hoping for more than just an outfit change.)
tyranusfan
2024-07-22 01:04:08 +0000 UTCa higher tolerance for camp i think he meant to say
paultardspambot .
2024-07-22 01:00:43 +0000 UTCEveryone’s being a little stiff ass I’ll quote Bill Murray “Lighten up Francis”
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-07-22 00:43:23 +0000 UTCI feel like the wealthy ferengi we encounter are more incompetent and greedy. The ones who are less ridiculous for one reason or another don't make it in ferengi society, so we are seeing privately owned ships with the goofiest and most unscrupulous ferengi, there are smarter ones but they dont rise to a position of power with the society having the incentive structure it does
paultardspambot .
2024-07-22 00:38:34 +0000 UTCI'm beginning to enjoy the opening skits and opening credit banter as much as the actual reactions. Give us more!
Justin B
2024-07-22 00:31:04 +0000 UTCDammit. I cried when Picard promoted Wesley. That whole speech was a romp through the feels.
Angelaina Marie
2024-07-22 00:18:16 +0000 UTCI was going through puberty at this time so it was a bunch of Ick to me. The only thing I could relate to was the Mother Daughter angst. And Lxwaxana as a character usually distracted me at that age, so I was usually laughing so much at her antics I couldn't realize the plot was bare bones. Then when I was older, then I could see how it was Meh/Cringe. But I will always love Picard's Shakespeare.
Firekrys FWO
2024-07-22 00:14:43 +0000 UTCDid anyone catch the retcon regarding Betazoids not being able to read Ferengi’s minds? Clearly a change to serve the plot, but actually served to make them more interesting. Also get a little bit of Ferengi lore here: oomax. 😁
Column Meanie
2024-07-22 00:09:31 +0000 UTCI don’t get how it’s cringe. The Ferengi are absolutely cringe here with their dehumanization of women, but Lwaxana stands up to them and uses their weakness against them. The whole point of their demeaning of women is to show how ridiculous and horrible they are. That shouldn’t make the episode cringe.
Column Meanie
2024-07-22 00:07:25 +0000 UTCThe fuck I am!
Column Meanie
2024-07-22 00:04:19 +0000 UTCWatching this when it aired, being Wesley's age and living a lot of the series through his eyes, the end of the episode with the big reveal was a huge deal for me. Fun episode, looking forward to the finale. :)
Joshua Langweil
2024-07-21 22:51:33 +0000 UTCBut she did show her love for her daughter by willing to sacrifice herself for her.
Jovet
2024-07-21 21:38:19 +0000 UTCFerengi are definitely in the "Absurd" category. Of course, they're an unkind allegory on capitalism.
Jovet
2024-07-21 21:37:28 +0000 UTC@Column Meanie I guess you're less meanie than I am!
Jovet
2024-07-21 21:35:26 +0000 UTCkinda ironic Luxwana got a taste of her own medicine this episode
Dark Kronis
2024-07-21 19:29:48 +0000 UTCWhen Wesley became full Ensign, that's it, he's gotta be wearing that red uniform for good.
Anthony Goodwin
2024-07-21 18:39:18 +0000 UTCI’d give it a solid B.
Column Meanie
2024-07-21 17:55:56 +0000 UTCI actually love this episode. It’s pure fun. I think fans are really a bit too harsh on this one. It’s a perfect example of the comedy of the absurd. Sometimes you just have to turn off the brain and laugh.
Column Meanie
2024-07-21 17:55:32 +0000 UTCHadn't rewatched this one in a while (great sign there), so I actually watched the pre-credits section in advance to try to guess what you guys were going to think of it. Given that right there in that first scene, they have awesome FX makeup, Troi lore, ferengi 2.0, and nods to the Riker/Troi no-mance, I actually expected you both to get pretty excited. Guess I was way off. Good thing though, because if you'd gotten too excited in that first scene, you'd have been real let down by the rest of it.
Steve Boshear
2024-07-21 17:46:07 +0000 UTCKind of a dumb episode but with a few laughs. Patrick Stewart spouting Shakespeare was wonderful
AzoriusMage
2024-07-21 17:27:27 +0000 UTCYes, I take sexual coercion and sexism seriously. I certainly don't find it a source of comedy.
Lincynity
2024-07-21 16:42:25 +0000 UTCProbably in the bottom 3 of the season for me - but there is some fun stuff here and I can’t help but love the ending with Picard quoting Shakespeare and then the end with Wesley.
Darren Seal
2024-07-21 16:38:03 +0000 UTCFrom the smell of things, we must be on a ferengi vessel
Thicketdweller
2024-07-21 16:19:25 +0000 UTCA solid "C" on the A-B-C-D-F scale.
Jovet
2024-07-21 16:18:03 +0000 UTCOnly the sweating on command is terrifying. . .
Jovet
2024-07-21 16:16:25 +0000 UTCI believe you're taking it far too seriously.
Jovet
2024-07-21 16:15:13 +0000 UTCYou can just LIKE this episode. You don't have to love or hate it. I just like it. Some good stuff, some cringe stuff, but overall a fun, comedic episode.
wildhunt1973
2024-07-21 16:11:11 +0000 UTCHealth and safety announcement: The publishers of the Sex Scoreboard will not be posting an update this episode. It was determined that the mental health risks are too high. It seems clear that an update this episode will lead to mental images of Lwaxana Troi naked. It is estimated that this mental image has the probably of causing insanity as the Medusan ambassador in TOS. In order that NO ONE actually creates this vision of Lwaxana Troi naked the publishers have made the tough choice of no update. Be assured that the mental image of a naked Lwaxana Troi and of course a Ferengi in his bedroom with the yellow sheets on the bed is dangerous but the bedboard scoreboard will return next ep. You are all welcome, that the publishers of the sex scoreboard have saved you from the mental image of naked Lwaxana Troi and a Ferengi in his bedroom.
Prof Moff
2024-07-21 15:57:43 +0000 UTCI know many find Majel Barrett's character annoying, but I kind of love her. She is one of the only people to give Picard shit constantly. I find it funny how she's always pressing him and making him uncomfortable lmao. She's even better in DS9 too haha.
Clyde Frog
2024-07-21 15:44:30 +0000 UTCAs a military man I can tell you that giving someone else your old rank insignia that you no longer need due to retirement or promotion is a tradition and you usually pick someone special to give them them to. So that WAS quite the big deal.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-07-21 15:19:15 +0000 UTCNot only did this episode get his wife screen time, it was co-written by his mistress.
Lincynity
2024-07-21 15:13:18 +0000 UTCYeah, the more you watch this one, the more you realize that it's actually modeling a lot of really toxic behavior as normal and playing it for laughs. It gets increasingly dated and more uncomfortable with every watch.
BN13
2024-07-21 15:12:52 +0000 UTCAlex's skit acting is actually kinda terrifying.
PIG
2024-07-21 14:56:31 +0000 UTCI don't really care for Luxwana episodes. Definitely nepotism with Gene making sure his wife got screen time. It wasn't enough for her to be the computer voice. It's light, but one of the two meh episodes before the season finale. I guess noteworthy to have two TOS actors in back to back episodes.
Stephen Wright
2024-07-21 14:48:04 +0000 UTCGene gave Wil Wheaton his Lieutenants bars from his days as a WWII bomber pilot to commemorate Wesley's promotion. Wil appreciated Gene's gesture, but was less than impressed with his character "development" here. But, he admitted later that he was in a bad place in his life at that time, so that likely colored his reactions.
tyranusfan
2024-07-21 14:21:13 +0000 UTCA low tier episode, exhausting to watch, but the ending makes up for everything. Picard fighting for his Lwaxana, so romantic. 🤣
Liquid82
2024-07-21 14:14:34 +0000 UTCI hate this episode more with every rewatching. Lwaxana pimping herself out to her captor, a man who won't take no for an answer punctuated by her devaluing her daughter and her career, while adding value to Riker by virtue of his career. And this is supposedly comedy? Beyond cringe, it's bordering on offensive, dated even by early 90's standards. The only redeeming feature is Picard's uncomfortable attempt to "woo" her back.
Lincynity
2024-07-21 14:11:56 +0000 UTCInteresting reaction guys; I wasnt sure if you would love this episode or hate it either. I find it mostly cringeworthy myself. Something I didn't notice before though was some nice parallels. On Betazed, Lwaxanna telling Riker that she herself isn't important and she is only concerned about Deanna and it comes off as patronizing, but on the Ferrngi ship, she says essentially the same thing to convince Tog to let Riker and Deanna go, and it comes across as selfless. Also, Lwaxanna telling Riker that she is a grown woman who can make her own decisions kind of calls back to Deanna telling Lwaxanna that she wants to be treated like an adult and can make her own choices. Maybe it would have been too cheezy or on the nose, but I wish this had led to some sort of epiphany that would cause Lwaxanna to realize she was being too controlling and that Deanna would understand how much her mother really does love her and there would be some sort of reconciliation at the end, but we didn't get that unfortunately. As good as the Picard and Wesley scenes are, they divert focus away from what should have been purely a Troi mother and daughter episode in my opinion. And Daemon Tog really should have been put in the brig or something.
Ryan Caulfield
2024-07-21 13:53:59 +0000 UTCThis might have worked better mid-season when we needed a little light relief from the terrorists and oppressive regimes. Wesley’s promotion scenes could have fitted at the end of any episode.
Paul Rymer
2024-07-21 13:45:42 +0000 UTCI didn’t remember it being established this early but there you go.
Paul Rymer
2024-07-21 13:41:16 +0000 UTCSusan Sackett co-wrote this. She was Gene’s long time assistant and, um, MORE.
tyranusfan
2024-07-21 13:27:10 +0000 UTCI agree. Their ending with Mr. Homn would have elevated this episode by another letter grade
Collin Freeman
2024-07-21 13:26:22 +0000 UTC*Ferengi's earnis.
Jovet
2024-07-21 13:20:05 +0000 UTCThey had to change Wesley's uniform. He was getting to big for the old one. (He could no longer zip it up all the way in the back.) I do like the implied, tasteful nudity also.
Darin Wagner
2024-07-21 13:17:01 +0000 UTCHahaha!!!... I love your last scenario with the Bradbury! The Troi/Ferengi stuff is total cringe, though I really like the way Barrett tones down her acting for the character in this one. Even the Ferengi are more tolerable than usual here. But what really makes the episode for me is the Picard Shakespeare stuff and of course the ending with Wesley.
David Wayne Fox
2024-07-21 13:15:37 +0000 UTC46:12 "I don't know if I hate this episode or I love it." That's a pretty typical reaction, actually. You can do both!
Jovet
2024-07-21 13:12:39 +0000 UTCI’ve never liked this one. Lwaxana can be more interesting and was in Haven
Sharron
2024-07-21 13:05:47 +0000 UTCExcept for the last 6-7 minutes of this episode, I could really take it or leave it.
Collin Freeman
2024-07-21 12:56:53 +0000 UTCThey finally give Wesley the proper uniform, but they're still putting Deanna in that horrible purple thng.
Joe Stacey
2024-07-21 12:56:12 +0000 UTC100% agree that once Lwaxana shows up on screen I enter a different mindset - Josh
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-21 12:56:02 +0000 UTCSusan Sackett, who was one of the two writers of this episode, was also Gene Roddenberry's assistant.
Anthony Goodwin
2024-07-21 12:53:18 +0000 UTCAlso, Robert Legato is, at that time, the Visual Effects Supervisor on the show.
Anthony Goodwin
2024-07-21 12:52:30 +0000 UTCI have been looking forward to your reaction to this episode for awhile just because I wasn't sure if you were going to enjoy it or hate it, so the "I don't know how to feel about this episode" response was pretty perfect. I love Lwaxanna episodes because of the humor involved in them and because they give Deanna depth, and I just sort of suspend my disbelief for most of the ridiculous stuff. I genuinely love the silliness of Picard's profession of love, and also really enjoyed Wesley's field promotion. Thanks for the reaction guys, it didn't disappoint!
Joshua Taylor
2024-07-21 12:52:14 +0000 UTCAnd now this.....I am sorry.
StonyD
2024-07-21 12:51:51 +0000 UTCOne of those episodes you'll never watch again, with only a couple of small redeeming points
SinocTheHodgeheg
2024-07-21 12:48:15 +0000 UTCOo-mox is the act of rubbing or massaging a Ferengi's ears.
Anthony Goodwin
2024-07-21 12:32:07 +0000 UTC0:38 You're sweating, Alex.
Jovet
2024-07-21 12:25:30 +0000 UTC
