Target Audience / FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S3E23

In the books, Spock has a son named Zar, who he had with Zarabeth, the girl he met when he time-traveled in All Our Yesterdays. Two books feature Zar.

Scott Reeves

2024-07-30 23:58:05 +0000 UTC

Picard and Riker's uniforms when they greeted Sarek are the "dress uniform". Kirk had one in TOS that he wore in "Journey to Babel".

Ron Hubbard Jr

2024-07-28 03:37:00 +0000 UTC

And "Time SQuared" was originally intended to lead into "Q Who."

Anthony Bernacchi

2024-07-27 14:07:17 +0000 UTC

Oh, you make me feel so inadequate, Mark! :-) I usually write mine in advance, but I haven't done the last three yet, and they're all out now.

Anthony Bernacchi

2024-07-27 14:04:58 +0000 UTC

When a man gets to a certain age, it becomes difficult to maintain and election...

Nolan

2024-07-22 04:04:46 +0000 UTC

I love your thoughtful and entertaining discussions. It's what makes your channel unique. 🖖

T’Pynyn of Vulcan

2024-07-22 01:33:50 +0000 UTC

Now, some people would look at a discussion video that's longer than the episode itself and disapprove. I am not one of those people, fuck it, the next monumental episode you see, do 1 hour! I love it, love you. Xxx

Leyton Jay

2024-07-21 20:17:21 +0000 UTC

Agrred

Lyric

2024-07-21 14:45:51 +0000 UTC

Dennis McCarthy is the best composer in all 4 series

Lyric

2024-07-21 14:42:23 +0000 UTC

By the time Picard and Riker had their altercation they already knew there was an outside influence, even if they weren’t positive of exactly why quite yet. So why would there be repercussions? 🤔

StealthMomo

2024-07-21 04:22:01 +0000 UTC

that thing you mention near the end there about something coming in out of nowhere to get in the way of the good stuff, the external force that has nothing to do with the episode, is what we call the "threat of the week", and every time it appears you should blame Rick Berman with extreme prejudice. I mean, it's not always his fault especially earlier on, but it is spiritually his fault. he was adamant about sticking to The Formula, and that means there has to be a threat, otherwise why would people care, right?? so frustrating.

awktopus

2024-07-21 02:29:40 +0000 UTC

I believe I'm the one that commented at the time how you could fit a bus inside his mouth. And at 3:09 I believe his mouth is open even bigger. Maybe a ship? LOL

Jovet

2024-07-19 22:38:14 +0000 UTC

"I didn't notice any difference."

Jovet

2024-07-19 22:36:21 +0000 UTC

Watch Beyond Belief

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-19 22:14:51 +0000 UTC

One thing nobody has mentioned is how the TNG crew after making this (or at least one guy) said they realized subconsciously this was inspired by their feelings about Roddenberry as it was clear to them by this point that he was declining. The episode originally started as not about Sarek specifically but about an aging ambassador who was clearly showing signs of decline but had a great deal of authority and was insisting on completing this mission which was his passion project and the crew having to deal with making him realize he wasn't capable. When someone had the idea it was Sarek, everyone apparently realized that was perfect and much better then some random admiral and then the episode took shape. But the original idea was clearly inspired by the real life situation the staff was in at the time, having to ignore things Roddenberry was saying and explain to him why they changed things since at this point they had a much better understanding of what this show was going to be and what made it work better then Roddenberry did. I thought that was interesting, the idea they had this initial concept where they didn't realize till afterward it was about themselves and their relationship to this legendary figure they admired but who was increasingly being left out of the loop of the actual creative process while still having the official authority and having to deal with that.

paultardspambot .

2024-07-19 20:53:43 +0000 UTC

I do not understand how this Don LaFontaine guy got to be a legend and I'd never heard of him ever.

harrypothead42024

2024-07-19 20:23:27 +0000 UTC

I respectfully disagree. I just can't say why for a little longer - I've had a txt file on my desktop with a comments for an upcoming episode for nearly two months.

Matt Newmark

2024-07-19 19:29:17 +0000 UTC

Something about professionalism, composure, and dealing with insubordination? :D

Matt Newmark

2024-07-19 19:19:48 +0000 UTC

Ole Billy Redshirt, awww jeeeeezis

Juan Tutrífor

2024-07-19 16:48:20 +0000 UTC

Imagine that fight but with Miles O'Brien and Scotty in the mix... LOL

Remi Samson

2024-07-19 16:31:17 +0000 UTC

Ah, but I wasn’t asking you to see. I was responding to A&J’s follow up question to my comment.

Ross Townsend

2024-07-19 16:11:55 +0000 UTC

Yeah, exactly. Some reactions will be better than others, sometimes they'll make a novel point, and sometimes they'll be flat-out wrong. Sometimes they'll over-analyze the production or technicalities of an episode instead of sitting back and taking it in. Often they manage to predict what's about to happen (BAR FIGHT!) I've written it before and I'll write it again: they don't watch this show anywhere like the way I watch it, so it's an interesting and usually-fun perspective!

Jovet

2024-07-19 06:01:43 +0000 UTC

I don't see how "speed" can be an issue. Sarek is either on the ship or not. When he's around other people, his anguish and frustration and anger radiate to those surrounding him. His mind was probably thinking about the conference room which is why those there were affected first.

Jovet

2024-07-19 05:58:55 +0000 UTC

EQactly!!

Jovet

2024-07-19 05:57:28 +0000 UTC

Well, it should have been a sextet. The piece that made Sarek cry wasn't Mozart. It all sounded overdubbed, but it sounded nice all the same.

Jovet

2024-07-19 05:53:28 +0000 UTC

Chekov's... phaser??

Jovet

2024-07-19 05:52:25 +0000 UTC

Your reaction to this is why we watch. That was fun!

Badger

2024-07-19 04:34:46 +0000 UTC

I just want to say so much in response to your commentary, but I can't.

Sherpa Jones

2024-07-19 02:59:13 +0000 UTC

Love the Bill Burr reference!

The ted berg

2024-07-19 02:57:36 +0000 UTC

The Worf incident that happens off screen isn't about Worf, it is about him putting a subordinate on report for insubordination for directly questioning his authority. The officer in question had an outstanding record up to that point, and Riker was shocked about that part. The implication seemed to be that Worf was composed and professional towards that officer but still handed down discipline as was his duty.

Sherpa Jones

2024-07-19 02:30:34 +0000 UTC

12:15 *straight right palm. LOL

Jovet

2024-07-19 01:40:07 +0000 UTC

Thanks for reading my comment, gents! My “execution issues” are the same that Josh mentioned: the speed and severity of the emotional bursts, specifically Geordi and Wesley, and then again Riker blowing up at Picard without repercussions. We all love watching your awe and surprise at these best-of episodes, so no spoilers, but you will get these specific feelings again before TNG ends, and just as poignant as this, imho.

Ross Townsend

2024-07-19 01:25:49 +0000 UTC

Yeah, like Dr. Selar in sickbay!

Matt Everkoul

2024-07-19 00:46:39 +0000 UTC

EnQounter at Farpoint

Mister Hope

2024-07-19 00:46:34 +0000 UTC

6:38: Spoiler alert: Not every Q episode has "Q" in the title.

Jovet

2024-07-19 00:37:42 +0000 UTC

I think the punchline you were looking for was "Sarek: the Revenge"

Eric Singer

2024-07-19 00:21:02 +0000 UTC

Sarek 2 Vulcan Boogaloo!

Stephen Wright

2024-07-19 00:18:17 +0000 UTC

It could also be that a Vulcan’s emotions are much more intense/severe than a humans, so it would be easier handling Picard's emotions from the mind meld than another Vulcan. Plus the Vulcan is able to still add extra mental reinforcement if required(something unlikely if he was sidelined by the mindmeld). That’s my head canon anyway. 🤷‍♂️

Todd “Canuck” Schmuck

2024-07-18 23:28:15 +0000 UTC

4:07 Those are called dress uniforms. As in "fancy-dress uniforms."

Jovet

2024-07-18 23:14:37 +0000 UTC

0:40 Why couldn't another Vulcan mind meld with Sarek to do that instead of Picard? (Plot armor)

Jovet

2024-07-18 23:10:24 +0000 UTC

Spock and Saavik did it. Stop fooling yourself. He wasn't himself, but then neither are most people hooking up drunk...

StonyD

2024-07-18 22:54:46 +0000 UTC

The most amazing thing about Mark Leonard and Sarek is that before this episode, we had Mark Leonard a total of 6 times, and Sarek only 4 times, and they both have such an impact on the episodes (movies) they're in. Sarek is the GOAT, and we know almost nothing about him.

Uileag MacAmhairghin

2024-07-18 22:46:22 +0000 UTC

He first showed up in Balance of Terror as the Romulan commander

paultardspambot .

2024-07-18 22:21:43 +0000 UTC

I wasn't sure if you'd love it or hate it for one reason. It's wonderfully written and acted but if you've been particularly close with someone suffering from dementia or similar ailments it can hit a bit below the belt. That make sense?

Timothy Keck

2024-07-18 22:09:05 +0000 UTC

"I'm always angry." (LMAO I replied/wrote that before reading your entire post :D)

Matt Newmark

2024-07-18 22:04:56 +0000 UTC

lol thanks for that.

Matt Newmark

2024-07-18 22:04:31 +0000 UTC

Trying to figure out the name: "Saaa...Sa-Sapphic? I think it's Sapphic." Call it a hunch, but I don't THINK that Vulcan's a lesbian. 🤣

Ragnarok

2024-07-18 21:58:20 +0000 UTC

Man, I paused on the BEST face at 3:09. God damn. 😆

Ragnarok

2024-07-18 21:07:01 +0000 UTC

Actually yes, I bet you'd be so awestruck and moved by Sarek's episode that you would need a week to recover! =P

James Knight

2024-07-18 21:02:02 +0000 UTC

Did someone bet you that we wouldn’t finish season 3? /s

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-18 20:58:03 +0000 UTC

Les Landau, Cliff Bole, and Winrich Kolbe - the triumvirate of TNG directors.

Collin Freeman

2024-07-18 20:54:38 +0000 UTC

That was back when he was lean and hungry and needed the money.

JD Nevesytrof

2024-07-18 19:21:53 +0000 UTC

Roll on next week, you guys finish Season 3 and I get paid, a nice end to the month!

James Knight

2024-07-18 19:13:45 +0000 UTC

The entire Picard meltdown scene is three shots, by my counting. And the first shot, which is most of the scene, took several takes. Imagine having to hit those emotional highs over and over. That kind of acting isn't for the weak.

JGoss

2024-07-18 18:56:54 +0000 UTC

One could ask why he doesn't just mind meld with Sakkath since he's a Vulcan and can better handle the emotional onslaught, but then it's specifically because Sarek can draw from Picard's experience in diplomacy as well as its own, which the episode references and establishes. That makes the in-universe explanation work perfectly as opposed to just being good television and giving Patrick Stewart some good acting. Good setup and payoff.

JGoss

2024-07-18 18:55:44 +0000 UTC

Also, the Klingon's redundant nervous system.

Danspawn

2024-07-18 18:51:27 +0000 UTC

Given the recent news of his death, film producer Jon Landau, who worked extensively with James Cameron on all his films of the last three decades, was brothers with Les Landau, the director of this and many other episodes.

JGoss

2024-07-18 18:51:07 +0000 UTC

Excellent direction and cinematography in this one. Some really good background moments in this episode: the lowered, defeated look on Picard's face when Sarek snaps "illogical!", Sakkath startling when Sarek loses control since he's feeling it too, the chief of staff reacting to stuff giving away the game, the camera movements to reveal characters, and all the various looks during the concert scene.

JGoss

2024-07-18 18:48:51 +0000 UTC

i can say for a fact when this show originally aired i had the exact same reaction to the name drop of serek and spock. this is a top ten episode of the entire series

David Marcoot

2024-07-18 18:28:43 +0000 UTC

picard forshadows the mind meld early in the episode while talking to troi. he says to her he regrets he won’t be able to share his thoughts with sarek.

David Marcoot

2024-07-18 18:09:09 +0000 UTC

Oooooh I like that (by like it I mean that I’m going to steal it without giving you any credit)

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-18 18:08:02 +0000 UTC

Les Landau! When it comes to directing quality, Les is more.

JD Nevesytrof

2024-07-18 18:00:51 +0000 UTC

I'll also add that every time I've watched the older ST shows its always been in binge format on Netflix or P+ and this is the first time I've ever really taken the time to slowly go through the series one episode at a time.

Doug

2024-07-18 17:44:22 +0000 UTC

I'm not a very analytical person when it comes to TV shows. I've seen this episode twice before and always felt it was an alright episode and then I move on and don't think about it anymore. But watching it with you guys makes me appreciate it a lot more with the amount of thought and discussion you put into every episode.

Doug

2024-07-18 17:41:32 +0000 UTC

I think Worf's not affected by Sarek's condition because his fight instinct is ALWAYS elevated. The rest of the crew just isn't conditioned to deal with their hightened emotions. ("That's my secret, Captain. I'm always angry." - The Avengers)

Jeffrey P

2024-07-18 17:32:39 +0000 UTC

Counterpoint: Code of Honor

Jeffrey P

2024-07-18 17:29:21 +0000 UTC

Not much to say except great episode and it is definitely in my top 5 of the season.

Collin Freeman

2024-07-18 16:49:15 +0000 UTC

Agreed. He and Brent Spiner given Emmy-winning performances pretty much every time.

Collin Freeman

2024-07-18 16:45:59 +0000 UTC

And Star Trek: TMP

Collin Freeman

2024-07-18 16:44:37 +0000 UTC

And you still haven't seen the best Season 3 has to offer.

ijp8834

2024-07-18 16:25:27 +0000 UTC

One great point for me - Sir Patrick's emotion scene is such classic Royal Shakespeare Company acting, as contrasted with Mark Leonard, with decades of becoming an iconic Vulcan using the Method Approach.

C

2024-07-18 16:23:37 +0000 UTC

One bad point for me - on the string quartet, only the left player was legit, although Brent was close.

C

2024-07-18 16:21:25 +0000 UTC

Even if you remove the TOS nostalgia, this is a great episode.

DustmanNorochj

2024-07-18 16:20:00 +0000 UTC

Don’t worry, Alex. In the Trekker world, there’s no such thing as a dumb detail.

startrekiborg

2024-07-18 16:12:09 +0000 UTC

We know. It was Don on episode 19 and we were questioning why he did just that one episode.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-18 16:07:54 +0000 UTC

Shoutout to Patrick Steward for an awesome performance. I believe this is the first time he got the chance to show what he could do. The man can act.

startrekiborg

2024-07-18 16:04:34 +0000 UTC

This announcer is not Don. It's Ernie Anderson. I'd bet money on it. I believe Don came in at season 4. ;)

Michael Nemo

2024-07-18 15:56:32 +0000 UTC

I don’t want to go political here, but honestly the Biden joke was hilarious to me, I don’t care which side a person is on, that was gold! And that’s all I’m going to say.

Steve Krautkramer

2024-07-18 15:13:51 +0000 UTC

No you are correct.

JD Nevesytrof

2024-07-18 15:09:11 +0000 UTC

I support your theory that Ernie Anderson just had some goddamn standards about which episodes he'd VO.

JD Nevesytrof

2024-07-18 15:08:44 +0000 UTC

11:19 8)

Jiri Luza

2024-07-18 14:38:44 +0000 UTC

I’d like to think that Sarek taking Perrin’s hand is an aftereffect of confronting his feelings for her and regretting his inability to show tenderness. Just a subtle change after the mind meld. Maybe I’m wrong.

James H

2024-07-18 13:43:55 +0000 UTC

By this point even TOS fans that were a bit sniffy about TNG had got on board, like my parents. We ended up watching seasons 4 to 7 as a family - the only show we did. Sarek was one of the episodes that made them change their minds about the show. Its a fond memory from before my parents got old and we all permanently moved out.

Paul Rymer

2024-07-18 13:01:15 +0000 UTC

The mind meld scene will forever be in my head. Glad you liked this one. Solid performances from Mark and Patrick. (And others too)

Andrew Bassey

2024-07-18 12:31:20 +0000 UTC

Don't forget, Mark Lenard was in Balance of Terror too.

Charlie's Illiteracy

2024-07-18 12:26:06 +0000 UTC

Watching this will have to wait until after 4 this afternoon, but I appreciated being able to watch the reaction last night. I only got to bed about 15 minutes later.

KatWithAttitude

2024-07-18 11:59:20 +0000 UTC

FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S3E23 - Sarek

Comments

In the books, Spock has a son named Zar, who he had with Zarabeth, the girl he met when he time-traveled in All Our Yesterdays. Two books feature Zar.

Picard and Riker's uniforms when they greeted Sarek are the "dress uniform". Kirk had one in TOS that he wore in "Journey to Babel".

And "Time SQuared" was originally intended to lead into "Q Who."

Oh, you make me feel so inadequate, Mark! :-) I usually write mine in advance, but I haven't done the last three yet, and they're all out now.

When a man gets to a certain age, it becomes difficult to maintain and election...

I love your thoughtful and entertaining discussions. It's what makes your channel unique. 🖖

Now, some people would look at a discussion video that's longer than the episode itself and disapprove. I am not one of those people, fuck it, the next monumental episode you see, do 1 hour! I love it, love you. Xxx

Agrred

Dennis McCarthy is the best composer in all 4 series

By the time Picard and Riker had their altercation they already knew there was an outside influence, even if they weren’t positive of exactly why quite yet. So why would there be repercussions? 🤔

I believe I'm the one that commented at the time how you could fit a bus inside his mouth. And at 3:09 I believe his mouth is open even bigger. Maybe a ship? LOL

"I didn't notice any difference."

Watch Beyond Belief

I do not understand how this Don LaFontaine guy got to be a legend and I'd never heard of him ever.

I respectfully disagree. I just can't say why for a little longer - I've had a txt file on my desktop with a comments for an upcoming episode for nearly two months.

Something about professionalism, composure, and dealing with insubordination? :D

Ole Billy Redshirt, awww jeeeeezis

Imagine that fight but with Miles O'Brien and Scotty in the mix... LOL

Ah, but I wasn’t asking you to see. I was responding to A&J’s follow up question to my comment.

I don't see how "speed" can be an issue. Sarek is either on the ship or not. When he's around other people, his anguish and frustration and anger radiate to those surrounding him. His mind was probably thinking about the conference room which is why those there were affected first.

EQactly!!

Well, it should have been a sextet. The piece that made Sarek cry wasn't Mozart. It all sounded overdubbed, but it sounded nice all the same.

Chekov's... phaser??

Your reaction to this is why we watch. That was fun!

I just want to say so much in response to your commentary, but I can't.

Love the Bill Burr reference!

12:15 *straight right palm. LOL

Yeah, like Dr. Selar in sickbay!

EnQounter at Farpoint

6:38: Spoiler alert: Not every Q episode has "Q" in the title.

I think the punchline you were looking for was "Sarek: the Revenge"

Sarek 2 Vulcan Boogaloo!

4:07 Those are called dress uniforms. As in "fancy-dress uniforms."

0:40 Why couldn't another Vulcan mind meld with Sarek to do that instead of Picard? (Plot armor)

Spock and Saavik did it. Stop fooling yourself. He wasn't himself, but then neither are most people hooking up drunk...

The most amazing thing about Mark Leonard and Sarek is that before this episode, we had Mark Leonard a total of 6 times, and Sarek only 4 times, and they both have such an impact on the episodes (movies) they're in. Sarek is the GOAT, and we know almost nothing about him.

He first showed up in Balance of Terror as the Romulan commander

I wasn't sure if you'd love it or hate it for one reason. It's wonderfully written and acted but if you've been particularly close with someone suffering from dementia or similar ailments it can hit a bit below the belt. That make sense?

"I'm always angry." (LMAO I replied/wrote that before reading your entire post :D)

lol thanks for that.

Trying to figure out the name: "Saaa...Sa-Sapphic? I think it's Sapphic." Call it a hunch, but I don't THINK that Vulcan's a lesbian. 🤣

Man, I paused on the BEST face at 3:09. God damn. 😆

Actually yes, I bet you'd be so awestruck and moved by Sarek's episode that you would need a week to recover! =P

Did someone bet you that we wouldn’t finish season 3? /s

Les Landau, Cliff Bole, and Winrich Kolbe - the triumvirate of TNG directors.

That was back when he was lean and hungry and needed the money.

Roll on next week, you guys finish Season 3 and I get paid, a nice end to the month!

The entire Picard meltdown scene is three shots, by my counting. And the first shot, which is most of the scene, took several takes. Imagine having to hit those emotional highs over and over. That kind of acting isn't for the weak.

Also, the Klingon's redundant nervous system.

Given the recent news of his death, film producer Jon Landau, who worked extensively with James Cameron on all his films of the last three decades, was brothers with Les Landau, the director of this and many other episodes.

i can say for a fact when this show originally aired i had the exact same reaction to the name drop of serek and spock. this is a top ten episode of the entire series

picard forshadows the mind meld early in the episode while talking to troi. he says to her he regrets he won’t be able to share his thoughts with sarek.

Oooooh I like that (by like it I mean that I’m going to steal it without giving you any credit)

Les Landau! When it comes to directing quality, Les is more.

I'll also add that every time I've watched the older ST shows its always been in binge format on Netflix or P+ and this is the first time I've ever really taken the time to slowly go through the series one episode at a time.

I think Worf's not affected by Sarek's condition because his fight instinct is ALWAYS elevated. The rest of the crew just isn't conditioned to deal with their hightened emotions. ("That's my secret, Captain. I'm always angry." - The Avengers)

Counterpoint: Code of Honor

Not much to say except great episode and it is definitely in my top 5 of the season.

Agreed. He and Brent Spiner given Emmy-winning performances pretty much every time.

And Star Trek: TMP

And you still haven't seen the best Season 3 has to offer.

One great point for me - Sir Patrick's emotion scene is such classic Royal Shakespeare Company acting, as contrasted with Mark Leonard, with decades of becoming an iconic Vulcan using the Method Approach.

One bad point for me - on the string quartet, only the left player was legit, although Brent was close.

Even if you remove the TOS nostalgia, this is a great episode.

Don’t worry, Alex. In the Trekker world, there’s no such thing as a dumb detail.

We know. It was Don on episode 19 and we were questioning why he did just that one episode.

Shoutout to Patrick Steward for an awesome performance. I believe this is the first time he got the chance to show what he could do. The man can act.

This announcer is not Don. It's Ernie Anderson. I'd bet money on it. I believe Don came in at season 4. ;)

I don’t want to go political here, but honestly the Biden joke was hilarious to me, I don’t care which side a person is on, that was gold! And that’s all I’m going to say.

No you are correct.

I support your theory that Ernie Anderson just had some goddamn standards about which episodes he'd VO.

11:19 8)

I’d like to think that Sarek taking Perrin’s hand is an aftereffect of confronting his feelings for her and regretting his inability to show tenderness. Just a subtle change after the mind meld. Maybe I’m wrong.

The mind meld scene will forever be in my head. Glad you liked this one. Solid performances from Mark and Patrick. (And others too)

Don't forget, Mark Lenard was in Balance of Terror too.

Watching this will have to wait until after 4 this afternoon, but I appreciated being able to watch the reaction last night. I only got to bed about 15 minutes later.

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