FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S3E17 - Sins of the Father
Added 2024-06-20 18:14:01 +0000 UTCComments
I think Alex hit on something important when he said that he liked how the Klingons were honor-obsessed, yet advanced enough not to lose their empire over honor. An advanced society would be one that understands itself well enough to avoid getting carried away and destroying itself with its own ideology. It's a very Roddenberry view of the future, and the episode shows that the Klingons (or at least Kmpec), by this time, have reached that level. So that they're able to be an ally of the Federation, even though their governing ideology is very different.
Artribution
2024-06-26 23:21:26 +0000 UTC"Deja Q" was not one of the six. (Neither were "A Matter of Perspective," as much as I love it, nor "Allegiance.") Alex and Josh have still seen only three of the six: "Yesterday's Enterprise," "The Offspring" and "Sins of the Father." Of course, all of this is only my own opinion. I'm amazed and flattered by how much of an impact my "six episodes" comment made on the discussion!
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-06-26 04:16:58 +0000 UTCMaybe a top 12 the way they are going.
Collin Freeman
2024-06-25 21:36:48 +0000 UTCGeordie at dinner keeps putting his foot in his mouth. First admitting to being ruffled by Kurn. The. Being like βWorf is wuss enough to love Turkey.β
Philbot
2024-06-24 04:18:30 +0000 UTCFair comparison
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-06-21 21:39:08 +0000 UTC@Greg Quinn, et all That's kind-of my point. In the big scheme of things, we can talk about the English legal system, because the US, Canada, Australia, Ireland, New Zealand, etc all derived their legal systems from English/British traditions. This is especially true when you hear the phrase "common law" tossed around. The word "court" is never uttered in this episode, especially in places it could be. That is probably the source of my personal annoyance. "A Matter of Perspective" only used the word once, and not in the direct context of the holodeck proceedings. But those proceedings, while not deciding guilt/innocence, were an official legal hearing I'd call closer to our type of court.
Jovet
2024-06-21 21:26:03 +0000 UTCThis episode established that family members share the same head ridges. Kurn's head ridges match Worf's.
JGoss
2024-06-21 21:24:50 +0000 UTCYou guys are going to love Episode 2 of Season 4
Danspawn
2024-06-21 16:04:27 +0000 UTCI never noticed that K'mpec was the same actor as Korrd in The Final Frontier. Of course, that may be because like most people I've tried to repress all memories of Star Trek V.
Regan
2024-06-21 14:05:55 +0000 UTCMy interpretation of the Sickbay scene was that Dr. Crusher was emotionally drained from the stress of saving Worf's brother and was anxious to reassure Worf that Kurn would be all right. Also, this may have been the first time Dr. Crusher conveyed to Worf that she wasn't angry with him anymore about the events of "The Enemy" (she clearly was still angry in "The Defector").
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-06-21 14:04:30 +0000 UTCI have 3 great coming up, 2 very good 1 pretty good and two basically crap (I used to have 3 crap but one I've moved up as I got older and gotten more life experience).....
Greg Quinn
2024-06-21 09:09:06 +0000 UTCHypothetically nor would any of the episodes be the same court system. While star fleet and the Federation seems heavily modeled after the United States's legal system there would in theory be lots of differences.
Greg Quinn
2024-06-21 09:01:09 +0000 UTC@Steven Linden It's also not the same legal system we have or use, either.
Jovet
2024-06-21 06:52:50 +0000 UTCOh I loved this episode. And I love your reaction and take on it! OOOOOOOhh boy I can not wait for more!!! I say to a lot but this has got to be and is the best reactions and commentaries of Star Trek! You guys kill it!!!!!π€πBest thing ever. Fills my heart! Worth paying!!! And giving you guys the green paper!
Phluke Skywalker
2024-06-21 05:22:32 +0000 UTCI never thought of Geordi as one who is a perpetual pot-stirrer, but OMG you guys are RIGHT! LOL!!
Steve Krautkramer
2024-06-21 04:53:45 +0000 UTCRemember sci-fi can get away with things when it's a different "species". XD
Josh Eversole
2024-06-21 02:57:28 +0000 UTCI only count 2 "not great" episodes the rest are all good to fantastic.
Trouty McTroutTrout
2024-06-21 02:56:06 +0000 UTCThey're (ostensibly) trying to determine someone's guilt or innocence of a crime. It's a court episode.
Steven Linden
2024-06-21 02:26:35 +0000 UTCKlingon fat shaming, can't get away with that anymore. Who said Star Trek was woke?!?!
Brendon Waldron
2024-06-21 02:22:39 +0000 UTCI am thrilled that more people are discovering good Star Trek. You guys are doing a great job.π
Just another Red Shirt
2024-06-21 01:51:02 +0000 UTCKinda funny because with modern technology, record keeping, genetics, forensics...it's harder and harder for those kinda secrets to stay secret or even be secrets at all. But here it happens 300 years in the future. Having said that...as far as Klingons go...I could see them being less than great record keepers.....
Greg Quinn
2024-06-21 01:18:22 +0000 UTCIt has some good episodes upcoming...but...some not so great ones as well (which are still good just not great)
Greg Quinn
2024-06-21 01:15:51 +0000 UTCI'll went ahead and edited. I don't think my orginal post was technically "spoiling" but I get it.
Greg Quinn
2024-06-21 01:14:47 +0000 UTCπ
Greg Quinn
2024-06-21 01:13:05 +0000 UTCOk, sounds good
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-06-21 00:46:29 +0000 UTCFinally, I've peaked. Effort will now be reduced going forward
James Bottas
2024-06-21 00:35:58 +0000 UTCClose. That's actually better. Mine was hella dark.
Juan TutrΓfor
2024-06-21 00:33:35 +0000 UTCYeah...my thought would be...if the Romulans saw tensions building between the Federation and the Klingons, they may have decided to just let those tensions build and have their enemies fight each other.
Greg Quinn
2024-06-21 00:17:54 +0000 UTCBottas, this is the single best post you have ever made on Patreon.
StonyD
2024-06-21 00:16:46 +0000 UTCSince Khitomer happened after Narendra III, who knows if Khitomer even happened in the alternate timeline due to the Butterfly Effect.
David Brown
2024-06-21 00:14:13 +0000 UTCSame actor from STV but not the same character.
Michael Nemo
2024-06-21 00:13:52 +0000 UTCHeya Target Audience, I always tried to get into the new Klingons but they always seemed like a ripoff of the Borellian Nomen from the original Battlestar Galactica.
Michael Nemo
2024-06-21 00:12:56 +0000 UTCI did catch "Drunk Beverley" when she same onto the bridge to tell them about Kaylest
StonyD
2024-06-20 23:42:57 +0000 UTCHer name is Risa and she dances on the sand?
Roland_D
2024-06-20 23:08:46 +0000 UTCAs someone who works in law, calling this a "court" episode annoys me. This is no more a court episode than your city council or meeting of selectmen or aldermen (or whatever) is a court. As a Council, it makes legal decisions and mandates, but is not a court.
Jovet
2024-06-20 22:53:35 +0000 UTC21:10 Worf is "the ice man," remember. He doesn't wear his emotions at all. But, Klingons don't seem to hide things, either. Recall Worf being offended at Kurn's rouse to get near him. I think Worf learned bigger "emotional stoicism" from humans than most Klingons have.
Jovet
2024-06-20 22:34:28 +0000 UTC19:55 Like Dr. Pulaski knowing Riker's father ...intimately...??
Jovet
2024-06-20 22:31:36 +0000 UTCAnd there is a small segment of fandom (not me as I find it works better in smaller amounts) that have for decades been wanting a Star Trek: Klingon. And a massive part of that is due to the performance of Michael Dorn and how much the Berman era of Trek has Dramatically enriched (and altered) what Klingons are. And many writers work on it, but the real inspiration is primarily from Ron Moore's work on Klingons over so many years. It really played the ground work for how Trek will start to treat each significant adversaries by making them well rounded.
Mark Wood
2024-06-20 22:27:15 +0000 UTC14:35 Great point, Josh.
Jovet
2024-06-20 22:25:59 +0000 UTCYou'll definitely find some weaker Klingon episodes, But as strong as this is.......
Mark Wood
2024-06-20 22:24:20 +0000 UTC10:32 How often have you guys watched the episodes multiple times? Which ones?
Jovet
2024-06-20 22:22:15 +0000 UTCBecause "the feels"
Jovet
2024-06-20 22:20:02 +0000 UTCOh man, a good Duran Duran joke popped in my head but it'd be a spoiler. π
Juan TutrΓfor
2024-06-20 22:17:54 +0000 UTCI thought Worf was okay, but I never found the Klingon stuff interesting, either. I can appreciate the guys' appreciations for it, though.
Jovet
2024-06-20 22:17:16 +0000 UTCClearly, it isn't ;)
JD Nevesytrof
2024-06-20 22:16:18 +0000 UTCF*ck no it hasn't. I was looking at what's coming and I'm like, fire, that one's fire, that one's fire, it's a damn wall of fire and THEN the season finale.
Angelaina Marie
2024-06-20 22:14:01 +0000 UTCNumiunous2019. I was absolutely sure you were going talk about the fact that Moore completely changed the culture of Klingons to one that has some ties to Samurai culture as that absolutely not what they were created to be in TOS or the TOS films. But yeah, in much the same way that Spock is often portrayed as more Vulcan then many Vulcans we see, Worf is certainly similar that he is a more pure presentation of the culture then what its typical for Klingons.
Mark Wood
2024-06-20 21:54:16 +0000 UTCDubious? Them's fightin' words! But I guess that idea hinges on whether Deja Q is held in high enough esteem.
JGoss
2024-06-20 21:46:20 +0000 UTCDubious "six better episodes" aside, I can say with confidence that Josh's rankings will absolutely be in flux until the end of this season
JD Nevesytrof
2024-06-20 21:08:28 +0000 UTCThat's an excellent point.
Numinous2019
2024-06-20 21:04:22 +0000 UTCAnd not just siblings.
KatWithAttitude
2024-06-20 21:00:46 +0000 UTCNo spoilers!
Sam Langanke
2024-06-20 20:55:07 +0000 UTCAdmiral McCoy disagrees
Sam Langanke
2024-06-20 20:51:15 +0000 UTCSpoiler-Alert! LOL
Sam Langanke
2024-06-20 20:50:15 +0000 UTCSo about how long Klingons live...pretty sure it hasn't been addressed in any form of Trek at this point.
Greg Quinn
2024-06-20 20:47:22 +0000 UTCSeason 3 is amazing. Also, it still hasn't peaked.
Josh Eversole
2024-06-20 20:42:52 +0000 UTCYou can't appreciate it until you've heard it in the original Klingon.
Collin Freeman
2024-06-20 20:29:11 +0000 UTCI think they'll need a bigger boat than that.
Matt Newmark
2024-06-20 20:17:54 +0000 UTCStar Trek has a weird tradition of revealing secret siblings of it's main characters. π€
Screaming Frog
2024-06-20 19:56:33 +0000 UTCThere is one season of Star Trek that is almost a continuous streak of bangers, minus one or 2 episodes. Star Trek is only going to keep getting better.
ijp8834
2024-06-20 19:46:42 +0000 UTCYeah, most aliens live longer than humans. We're squishier than everyone else.
Screaming Frog
2024-06-20 19:39:42 +0000 UTCWorf was old enough to remember he had a brother. He was told after he was rescued that he had no more living relatives because the Klingon High Command had assumed Kurn was with the family and was killed with their parents. I always thought that with Worf being so young and suffering the trauma of the massacre he forgot his brother had been left with friends. Stay tuned...
KatWithAttitude
2024-06-20 19:30:57 +0000 UTCPerhaps by now you're starting to understand the hot take that The Defector wasn't in someone's top 6 of the season.
JGoss
2024-06-20 19:05:11 +0000 UTCI agree, no consequences at all to how long a klingon can live. None..at all...stop looking at me like that!
Timothy Keck
2024-06-20 19:01:44 +0000 UTCtrust me, youβre gonna need a top ten
David Marcoot
2024-06-20 18:59:08 +0000 UTCI would say that is because Worf is an idealized Klingon. All he had was what he could read and what he could remember from childhood. He aspired to be the best Klingon - at a distance. Whereas most Klingons will talk about honor, they tend to live very self-focused lives about their own "honor." We actually see quite a bit of treachery and machinations couched in talk of honor up to this point.
Steven Johnson
2024-06-20 18:54:06 +0000 UTCMy favorite ST (post TOS) antagonists for the Federation haven't appeared yet. While I always loved Dorn/Worf, some fans aren't crazy about TNG Klingons overall. It's supposed to be a Samurai-type culture, but I always found too many Klingon characters to be written as overly aggressive and fixated on the superficial aspects of honour (their status in their society) versus Worf's focus on personal integrity.
Numinous2019
2024-06-20 18:51:49 +0000 UTCA little bit of latter day behind the scenes with the TNG cast. Apparently Michael Dorn found Stearts Klingon hysterical. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oHB9RnNdvAY?feature=share Also, interesting set reuse. The hallway that Kurn gets shanked in? That's the same hallway set that was used on the Enterprise when the super soldier guy was going around planting bombs and sabotaging parts of the ship. Also... And this is entirely m own head canon (I think?)... It is my belief this is actually a clandestine Romulan episode. You don't just "capture" a Romulan ship. We know what the Romulans do when they're about to get captured. I think the Romulans wanted the evidence found, specifically for the damage it could do to the Klingon Empire. I'm not sure if that is ever confirmed anywhere, but uh... Yeah!
Steven Johnson
2024-06-20 18:45:58 +0000 UTCLove the background choice! Growing up, the Klingon Empire episodes were my least favorite, even though I loved Worf. I think they've grown on me as I've gotten older and watched YT reactions to STNG. That's just one of the many reasons reaction videos are great, they give you a different perspective.
PIG
2024-06-20 18:40:17 +0000 UTCKlingons are indeed very long lived compared to humans. This is not a hint to anything else. Promise.
JD Nevesytrof
2024-06-20 18:32:54 +0000 UTCπ―
James Bottas
2024-06-20 18:24:26 +0000 UTCHit single: Hungry Like the Worf
JGoss
2024-06-20 18:23:27 +0000 UTCDuran, son of Duran
James Bottas
2024-06-20 18:19:33 +0000 UTCYesterday's Enterprise didn't end on the Geordi/Guinan shot, it ended on an Enterprise shot. The S rank for the end of season rankings is now in serious jeopardy.
JGoss
2024-06-20 18:16:35 +0000 UTC
