PATRON TAKES - Star Trek TNG Season 3 Episode 5
Added 2024-04-29 01:01:46 +0000 UTCTARGET DEMOGRAPHIC PATRONS! DO NOT USE THIS POST, USE THE TARGET DEMO PATRON TAKES!
Comment on this post your ‘takes’ on this episode and we will read a few in our discussion!
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Comments
Just watched the reaction to The Bonding and I'm sooo regretting not commenting on the patron takes post earlier! This is such a strong Counselor Troi episode, particularly in her role as counselor. I grew up loving Deanna, even when they gave her terrible lines. As a child, dreaming about what kind of Starfleet officer I would be, I never felt smart enough for the STEM-heavy roles (I was in high-achieving family). People, though? Feelings? Those made sense to me. Counselor Troi taught me that I was very smart, and that I have an important role to play, and this episode definitely exemplifies that. I finished my master's in 2022, and I've been a counselor for over a year now.
CounselorDurango
2024-05-02 19:08:14 +0000 UTCI think this is a great episode that is undermined somewhat by an unnecessary guilty alien subplot. The raw tragedy of the situation and how the crew deals with it is solid and makes for good character building, and I'd preferred to have seen more of that.
Gruzz
2024-04-30 21:04:21 +0000 UTCStunningly average episode that attempts to, and occasionally successfully, tugs at the heartstrings. I'm not always a fan of the Klingon cultural stuff but the R'uustai ritual makes a lot of sense given the more war-like background of their society.
Nick Sauer
2024-04-30 19:29:28 +0000 UTCI'm so curious to hear your takes on this episode. It's not quite a banger for me but I think the argument could be made. More character development that adds to the backgrounds we've already learned about up to this point. I love the final scene so much. You might need some tissues for this one!
Trouty McTroutTrout
2024-04-30 12:07:45 +0000 UTCThe episode is interesting in how successful one aspect of it is how by the books the plot actually is. The actual character beats of the story is one of the most well rounded for the show. And it hits mosts of the characters. Great moments with both crushers (in fact my favorite), solid moments with Picard, a nice scene with Data and Riker, and Worf even gets an emotional connection to the story. The plot on the other hand is so by the book. But you can absolutely see the difference in character over plot in how it drives the story. If this was a season one or two episode we wouldn't have got half the character beats in this episode. Of course having a a child be a a key character for the plot is always a serious risk. There is material here he handles well and others less so, but part of that might also be from the script or director. Introduction of Ronald Moore. With according to him a serious uncredited rewrite from Melinda Snodgrass. I am very curious if Moore's draft heavily featured the character beats or if it was more focused on the plot of the episode. With most newcomers I would assume the rewrite is where that came from. But knowing his work, I can't make that assumption.
Mark Wood
2024-04-30 02:39:16 +0000 UTCRonald, you're trying to impress the production staff with your first ever script, and the best you could come up with to name a calico cat is Patches?
JGoss
2024-04-30 01:55:18 +0000 UTCI'm with you. If I had to skip a single season 3 episode, it would be this one. Not sure if it's the rehashing of Wesley dealing with his father's death, the clearly tacked on alien angle, or the child actor, but it never worked for me either. The actress going "Jerrrremyyyyyyy" is also very grating :D
JGoss
2024-04-30 01:52:36 +0000 UTCThough not an episode I return to often, I’m glad it exists. By the end, nearly all of our cast feel more fleshed out by expressing personal thoughts and feelings on loss and grief.
Benjamin Azure
2024-04-30 01:10:43 +0000 UTCFor me this is somewhere in the bottom five episodes of this season. But that could just be a "me" thing, because others seem to like it much more and I can see the elements that make this a objectively good episode. It just doesn't work for me....🤷♂️
Greg Quinn
2024-04-29 20:42:03 +0000 UTCSo…yeah…this one. A little bit of Worf development, but the story…I’m just not sure about. How would you have felt if Jeremy recreated his Mother on the holodeck of his own accord, instead of it being an alien intervention story? That was the original pitch if I recall correctly.
The Game Show Reviewer
2024-04-29 19:55:24 +0000 UTCThe Wes part is good the kid is just terrible
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-04-29 19:48:48 +0000 UTCI hated this episode mainly due to the horrible performance of the kid. Plus he had a punchable puss
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-04-29 19:47:40 +0000 UTCNot entirely successful, but I enjoy the exploration of difficult topics.
Mike Rogers
2024-04-29 19:34:38 +0000 UTCWhat a great premise; taking the death of a "redshirt" and dealing with the impact of that for an entire episode. Some great character moments from nearly everyone here, and I was especially moved by Picard saying no one is ever alone on the Enterprise. Even the alien works for me as a sort of physical representation of Jeremy's denial of his own feelings, who fades away after he finally begins to express himself. As Picard says: "[Memories] are something to cherish, not to live in." I definitely appreciate this episode a lot more now than when I was a kid.
Ryan Caulfield
2024-04-29 19:10:00 +0000 UTCGood Worf episode, and something kids go through a lot unfortunately.
Chris S.
2024-04-29 14:54:41 +0000 UTCYeah the kids live in dread of that moment
tyranusfan
2024-04-29 13:56:28 +0000 UTCThis episode had a huge impact on the industry as a whole. Normally you needed an agent to submit a script but because this episode turned out so well Michael Piller decided that Star Trek would accept scripts from amateur writers. For about 10 years anyone could pitch to Star Trek and it launched the careers of many writers such as Jane Espensen, Rene Echevarria and Michael Taylor.
Matthew McKinnon-Gray
2024-04-29 12:47:15 +0000 UTCThis is one of the weaker ones of the season but still okay. RoboCop 2 kid is at least a quality guest actor Even though this one isn’t fantastic it’s the first writing credit for Ron Moore. Keep an eye out for his name going forward. He is known for how much he developed THE LORE.
Strife
2024-04-29 11:28:15 +0000 UTCThis episode doesn't really work for me. It is an interesting idea to show how the child of a dead crew member deals with that loss but it really should have been a Troi episode. Helping Jeremy is literally her job but for some reason she doesn't do that.
Phillip Grischa
2024-04-29 07:49:56 +0000 UTCSo this is one that I enjoy a lot more now than when I was young. I appreciate the development of Worf’s character, Troi’s role on the ship is further defined and you see how close she has come professionally to Picard.
Paul Rymer
2024-04-29 07:36:32 +0000 UTCNo one is alone, except when they leave you alone in your quarters after your mother died.
Phillip Grischa
2024-04-29 07:30:31 +0000 UTCNot a big fan of this one. Not a fan of the kid or the actress playing his mother. Next.
Jon1701
2024-04-29 06:48:28 +0000 UTCThis is another solid episode. Wondering what happened to the families of crew members hurt or killed in action? We get an answer. It's a tough subject, and while the alien bit seems kind of old-school Trek to me, it works. This isn't close to the top ten for this season IMO, but I feel like you guys will appreciate this one.
Paul O'Neal
2024-04-29 06:38:11 +0000 UTCFor an episode in which "not much happens", there's actually a whole heckuvalot that happens. We not only get an insightful, cathartic, and poignant exploration of loss and grief, but we also get some really great backstory and character growth from Warf and Wesley. Deanna has some great moments as well, which shows her true skill as a counselor.
Gweneviere
2024-04-29 05:26:08 +0000 UTCYes, but considering the alternatives are And the Children Shall Lead and When the Bough Breaks, the bar was looooooow.
JGoss
2024-04-29 03:42:12 +0000 UTCIf you haven’t seen Robocop 2 Jeremy is just another kid.
Phil Ken Sebben
2024-04-29 03:33:43 +0000 UTCThank you!
wildhunt1973
2024-04-29 03:09:24 +0000 UTCA casualty of the script being handed around a few times and rewritten, I'm sure.
JGoss
2024-04-29 03:07:39 +0000 UTCGabriel Damon Lavezzi. He quit acting in 2006.
Jovet
2024-04-29 02:48:29 +0000 UTCAn interesting study of grief. However, I feel like it's flawed by introducing itself as a Worf episode and then proceeding to shove him in the background while we have way too many scenes with the fake mother. There's some excellent stuff with Wesley and Beverly and Picard, which keeps it from being a bad episode. But I just feel like the episode is all over the place while it should have focused more on the Worf/Jeremy relationship.
David Wayne Fox
2024-04-29 02:21:25 +0000 UTCRemember these names: Michael Piller and Ron Moore. Piller took over the writer room with this episode, and the script was a spec script that Moore turned in while on a studio tour. TNG is hereby forever changed.
Column Meanie
2024-04-29 01:59:12 +0000 UTCI enjoy learning more about the lives of the peripheral crew on the Enterprise. What Jeremy has to go through is very frightening and disturbing because he has lost both parents and then has a weird, fake mom show up and try to take him away. Wesley might be able to empathize some because he has lost a father, but his life would have been very different if he had lost his mom at that age as well. Still, the exploration of his feelings and Picard’s acknowledgement is a great addition to this episode.
Leo Greenwood
2024-04-29 01:50:20 +0000 UTCI like how they finally address how Wesley really feels about Picard and his father's death. It makes Wes a little more human, and I loved the way Picard's face falls when he realizes that Wes is about to tell him exactly what he thinks. You can tell he's been dreading this conversation ever since Wesley came aboard the Enterprise.
tyranusfan
2024-04-29 01:43:45 +0000 UTC"Jeremy, on the starship Enterprise, no one is alone… No one." makes me melt every time. When forced to interact, Picard is superb with children.
Smear Campaign
2024-04-29 01:30:23 +0000 UTCIsn’t he the creator of For All Mankind too?
Smear Campaign
2024-04-29 01:25:46 +0000 UTCI know these should be short, but I have a lot of background on this one. This is Ronald D. Moore's first ever script. This is who wrote the BSG Miniseries and co-showran it. Story goes he was a huge Star Trek fan, and his girlfriend at the time had a minor connection to the show and got him a set tour. RDM took it upon himself to write a script, in the off chance they took it. He foisted it off on the production assistant leading the tour, and then it sat in a bin for awhile. Until the writer's strike. They NEEDED scripts. The new showrunner, Micheal Piller, found it, and liked it. They decided due to the crunch to produce it. Except Gene Roddenberry HATED it, as detailed in other comments. Regardless, RDM got a staff job out of the deal, and spent the next 10 years working on Trek. This also started TNG opening the production to fan submitted scripts, a number of which were made into episodes. A final anecdote is that, during production of this episode, they brought RDM to the set (which rarely happened, for writers to be let on the set) where he met Patrick Stewart, who upon learning that RDM was a new script writer said: "The Captain doesn't do enough fighting or F@%&ing."
Nolan
2024-04-29 01:21:04 +0000 UTCIs that a Ronald D Moore sighting? The first of many episodes written by him. Would go on to create the Battlestar Galactica reboot you just watched. Looking at all the episodes he writes for TNG...this might be a bottom-3 episode for him. I think that both of yu will think this episode is just okay.
Elway Simpson
2024-04-29 01:18:23 +0000 UTCThere might be something to Picard's inherent dislike of children. Show me a good episode, thus far, when a child has been featured? This episode is a reminder that children should probably not be on a ship that is constantly being put into peril. The trauma that poor kid goes through...
Jack Shipley
2024-04-29 01:15:59 +0000 UTCIf you’re a kid on the Enterprise, and Troi and Picard show up to your classroom it’s going to be a bad day..
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-04-29 01:11:12 +0000 UTCThis one is Ok.
Just another Red Shirt
2024-04-29 01:11:07 +0000 UTCThe best exploration of “children on the Enterprise” in my opinion.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-04-29 01:10:03 +0000 UTCThis was an excellent episode without necessarily being one of my favorites. There's a lot of good in it, and the boy actor (sorry I don't know his name) wasn't terrible, but he's a typical child actor--not great, either (though I really shouldn't say that because all child actors in Japan are AMAZING--don't ask me why--off topic). A- episode in my opinion.
wildhunt1973
2024-04-29 01:09:57 +0000 UTCThe original idea was Jeremy being unable to handle his mother's death and recreating her in the holodeck. Gene objected, believing children in the future would handle mourning better than we do. Much like with Conspiracy, they added in an alien element to modify the plot to his satisfaction.
JGoss
2024-04-29 01:09:53 +0000 UTCI'm very "meh" about this episode. Don't get me wrong, it's good, but it doesn't have the same impact (IMO) that other episodes may have. I think the Target Audience will like it, but I don't think it'll be "one of the best ever." But then, I've been wrong before.
John
2024-04-29 01:06:37 +0000 UTCThe most notable thing about this episode is the script was written by Ronald D Moore who handed it to producers while on a tour of the set. He was hired based on it and went on to be one of the giants of Star Trek, writing tons of classic TNG episodes, 2 movies, was executive producer on DS9 and ultimately the creator of the Battlestar Galactive reboot.
Carl Williams
2024-04-29 01:04:51 +0000 UTC
