FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S3E3 - The Surviviors
Added 2024-04-26 00:30:07 +0000 UTCCan't seem to escape the technical issues lately. A couple chunks of this video's footage was corrupted, so those periods are a picture over the audio. Luckily, we recently started recording our audio separately from the video file. What isn't so lucky; we started charging the mics while recording the discussions so they wouldn't die, and that apparently causes a minor buzzing in the audio. SORRY!
How will we handle this for the YouTube version? No idea! Isn't creating content fun!?
Comments
Regarding the fish people, Lwaxanna is full Betazoid, so she can read minds. Deanna is only half betazoid so she can only sense emotions, and sometimes telepathically communicate, like with her mother.
BN13
2024-05-15 15:38:37 +0000 UTCIsn't it just natural that they had to investigate what happened here? A whole planet was obliterated, thousands of federation settlers dead and a suspicious couple enjoying tea in the middle of this holocaust?
sjmpoo
2024-05-09 11:28:11 +0000 UTCA hectare is a metric into of area right now, today. It is 10,000 square meters, like a square 100 meters on a side. It is not an SI unit, but it is a metric one.
Michael Schwarz
2024-05-06 16:10:07 +0000 UTCI'm not the most faithful and diligent participant, but watching all of Star Trek is going to bring me in. Having rewatched season 1 and 2 with you guys, they were better than I remember. Season 3 has a few "meh" episodes, and I personally think one real dud. But on the whole, most episodes are at at least the level of this one, and it has at least 3 absolutely amazing episodes, and I can hardly wait to see you react to them. Trust me, you will know each one when you hit it. You may have a few more than I, but I'm quite sure you will rate my 3 in both of your top lists at season end.
Michael Schwarz
2024-05-06 16:05:59 +0000 UTCOoh, that's a great idea. The two plots could have seemed to be totally unrelated until the end.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-05-05 12:54:06 +0000 UTCBTW it looked like you guys were at some Star Trek news-desk. lol. The audio was fine, no worries.
MrDeadstu
2024-04-29 02:34:27 +0000 UTCToo bad they didn't have a B plot about the disappearance of a crew member, who happened to be a member of the race Kevin annihilated. Maybe that would have put this episode over the top?
MrDeadstu
2024-04-29 02:33:00 +0000 UTCYeah well he could blink the federation in non existence so there’s that
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-04-28 16:14:31 +0000 UTCHooshkins.
badvertised
2024-04-28 15:48:27 +0000 UTCLove the conversation! Technical issues always happen. ALWAYS have a backup recording the audio in case the audio is corrupted too. A cheap audio recording is much more preferable than nothing at all. A simple iPhone would even work.
PIG
2024-04-28 13:40:54 +0000 UTCI think in the case of punishment...the biggest issue is they can't do anything unless he consents. So maybe you can take him to prison, but only for as long as he agrees to it. And maybe Picard figures the risk of him snapping is too much. Maybe Q could actually punish him without his consent
Greg Quinn
2024-04-27 22:17:47 +0000 UTCThere's an interview on one of the blu-rays with the main composers, and they talk about that. It's one of the nuttier things Berman did.
tyranusfan
2024-04-27 20:08:15 +0000 UTCExactly. They never do anything to confirm Kevin's final story is the truth either. There's nothing to suggest that he didn't kill the colonists himself. We have no laws to fit your crime? The crime is murder... they don't have laws for serial killers? If he wiped out all Vulcan's they'd leave him there to drink her cruddy tea in peace? Pretty good episode until the ending.
Smear Campaign
2024-04-27 14:29:03 +0000 UTCUsually whenever our hosts say something doesn't make sense I get their point and generally agree. But in this case I'm kinda shocked they don't immediately get why the enterprise wouldn't just leave. Even if the mystery of why Kevin and his wife survived didn't exist...it would behoove them to try to discern who attacked a Federation colony and killed 11,000 people.
Greg Quinn
2024-04-27 07:14:10 +0000 UTCAre you talking about Nagilum from "Where Silence Has Lease" ?
Jovet
2024-04-27 04:38:30 +0000 UTCWell, it was a Federation colony, so it would be the Federation protecting itself.
Jovet
2024-04-27 04:32:11 +0000 UTCare they putting their crew in jeopardy? other then the injury to the random crewman and what was going on with Troi, there wasn't much to indicate they were in danger, and Picard got something was off.
David Kunard
2024-04-27 04:26:21 +0000 UTCpart of him is Dixon Hill. I think you guys still don't fully get Picard yet.
David Kunard
2024-04-27 04:23:54 +0000 UTCBecause Picard plays a private eye in his fantasies. he can't resist a good mystery.
David Kunard
2024-04-27 04:22:15 +0000 UTC"The Face: is from a different galaxy or dimsension/ Plain of existence as if he was from the Milky Way Neebum would have encountered humanoids before.
David Kunard
2024-04-27 04:20:02 +0000 UTCHe says he's a being of 'disguises and false surroundings.' Maybe most of his powers are of illusion.
Angelaina Marie
2024-04-27 02:09:56 +0000 UTCPicard says that they have an obligation to protect the colony. That's why they stayed even though there were only 2 colonists left. Probably a Federation agreement. Great job in spite of the technical issues.
T’Pynyn of Vulcan
2024-04-26 20:31:32 +0000 UTCProbably a good take that this is kind of a baseline episode of the season. I'd probably put it as B/C tier episode.
Code76
2024-04-26 16:48:11 +0000 UTCIt would have been interesting if it was the Sheliak Kevin destroyed, which would mean the Tau Cygni V colonists could go back to their planet. But TNG was an episodic series which didn't generally tie episodes together that closely, even consecutive episodes (remember Gene Roddenberry's refusal to allow "Q Who" to be a sequel to "Time Squared," which I think would have blown Alex and Josh's minds).
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-04-26 16:33:21 +0000 UTCNote that that means Riker must have some degree of innate telepathic ability. Star Trek has depicted that as a possibility for humans going all the way back to Elizabeth Dehner and Gary Mitchell in "Where No Man Has Gone Before," although there is no scientific evidence for it in real life (which is presumably why later versions of Star Trek have downplayed or avoided the issue).
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-04-26 16:29:24 +0000 UTCFor sure. They first met the Borg less than a year ago and are particularly sensitive to new planet destroying alien races coming onto the scene.
Strife
2024-04-26 16:22:11 +0000 UTCThanks, I have Audacity already. I’ll try that.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-04-26 16:01:14 +0000 UTCMovie trailers are still like that. I'm not a big movie-goer, but what's the point of going when you've seen all the good parts of the film already?
Jovet
2024-04-26 15:09:55 +0000 UTCBonus for the crew and the Federation! Since this new mysterious murderous race was completely wiped out by Kevin, they don't have to bother to investigate the threat!
Joe Concepts
2024-04-26 15:05:25 +0000 UTCI didn't think it was that hard to see why Picard would stay. A mysterious alien race they never ran into before just wiped out a colony, and this guy was hiding something an was potentially involved. Plus when he said he would not leave as long as the people were alive, he just did that to prompt Kevin to "kill" him and his wife.
Joe Concepts
2024-04-26 15:04:10 +0000 UTCEasily remove buzzing from audio: Download "Audacity" (freeware) -> open the audio file -> effects -> noise reduction. It takes a second and works perfectly, hope that helps.
Oz
2024-04-26 14:58:59 +0000 UTCDeanna is not telepathic with other species; being half-Betazoid, she's empathic (can sense general feelings), but she's only telepathic with close family members (her mother, for instance ) and possibly other Betazoids. Also with Riker, but they were lovers, so it might be the case that she requires a certain connection to be able to transmit thoughts.
Jason C.
2024-04-26 12:28:40 +0000 UTCAdmiral: Who killed our people? Picard: Kevin did Admiral: What did you do about it? Picard: Nothing Admiral: Okay
Sam Langanke
2024-04-26 08:42:13 +0000 UTCIt's also a matter of the evolving styles of Dennis McCarthy and Ron Jones. They alternated scoring the episodes. Jones did Evolution, McCarthy did Ensigns and this episode, and Jones does the next episode (since they were broadcast out of order). McCarthy followed Berman's orders and reduced scoring to a minimum. Generally when Josh and Alex notice the music, it's a Ron Jones score.
JGoss
2024-04-26 07:58:02 +0000 UTCThe interviews with Jones bear that out. He and McCarthy felt the early seasons needed to be helped by the music. Thin plots punctuated with more engaging music. In seasons 3-4, he felt the story, character and dialogue more and more carried themselves, presenting him with a scoring challenge, and ultimately his later scores got shorter.
JGoss
2024-04-26 07:54:51 +0000 UTCThe crazy thing is I don't think he's 100% wrong. His mandate sapped tension out of so many episodes, but at the same time, the emotional moments are so much more profound in this era because they are allowed to speak for themselves. There's nothing I hate more than overly sappy music playing over a scene that didn't earn it telling me to be sad.
Nolan
2024-04-26 07:34:09 +0000 UTCJosh, I know score is an important part of your appreciation of a given episode, but there are reasons for it being largely absent here. Music is used as a weapon; it'd have less impact as such if it were blended into a broader score and not highlighted. And I still think being able to hear a pin drop during Kevin's confession really underscores his loneliness and the weight of the consequences of his actions. Sometimes the silence is just as resonant.
Avaria
2024-04-26 07:04:18 +0000 UTCYeah even if two people weren't left alive I suspect the duty would be to stick around and try to figure out what's what.
Greg Quinn
2024-04-26 06:49:57 +0000 UTCTroi isn't as good a telepath as her mom. She can mostly just read feelings and emotions where as her mom can read that and full conscious thoughts. Troi is half human after all. (Edit people already said this)
Greg Quinn
2024-04-26 06:32:04 +0000 UTCThat attitude towards music from Berman carried through to the TNG movies. It was clear that 'functional' was Berman's motto.
Numinous2019
2024-04-26 06:21:22 +0000 UTCYeah the powers, as far as we have seen them on TNG (to this point) is definitely Q at the top. Maybe Kevin or Nagilum next. I'd say Kevin above Nagilum. Something like Armus is many steps down as he can't project his powers past the planet surface (the same could be said of the "God" imposter in Star Trek V).
Greg Quinn
2024-04-26 06:11:42 +0000 UTCThere’s actually a great reference site called “Memory Alpha” that is basically the universal reference for the franchise, even the actual show writers use it. And you guys should absolutely NOT visit it, it’d be a spoilerpocalypse.
Adam Zey
2024-04-26 06:02:45 +0000 UTCFor the record, "telepathic" is not an adequate description of Betazoid abilities. The dictionary definition is stricter, but "telepathy" is usually intended to mean intentional communication from mind to mind. Sending words or images from your mind to another to convey information and ideas, as a substitute for but without the use of mouth/vocal chords, eyes, ears, touch, nose, etc. (or vice-versa) Betazoids can freely sense the thoughts or feelings of the minds of others, whether those others choose or want to share them, or not. Betazoids can "hear" or "see" the internal thought processes of others—what you think to yourself, without any filter or desire to address others. Deanna does not have this ability because she's partially human. Her abilities are "dulled" to only being able to sense emotional states, and frame-of-consciousness or psyche. She can telepathically communicate with those she is close to whom possess innate telepathic abilities, and presumably any other Betazoids.
Jovet
2024-04-26 05:12:07 +0000 UTCAnderson had lost his own wife shortly before appearing in Star Trek: The Next Generation (1987) "The Survivors", and said that the subject matter made the role of Kevin Uxbridge one of the most difficult of his career
Badger
2024-04-26 03:37:11 +0000 UTCGotta love how those old teaser trailers spoil every episode lol
E Parhas
2024-04-26 03:29:22 +0000 UTCThat was my thought: an entire federation colony is wiped out, except for 2 people and their immediate area. The Federation Council would want some explanation and accounting as to why. As agents of the Federation, Starfleet personnel would be obligated to find the answers.
Collin Freeman
2024-04-26 03:03:15 +0000 UTCEnjoy the banger scores while they last. Dennis McCarthy acquiesced to Berman's insistence on "sonic wallpaper" and you can hear the difference. He brought it with his earlier scores, but toned them down greatly. He and Ron Jones alternate episodes except when Jones was unavailable. You can tell right away when he scores an episode because it usually starts with a unique melody.
JGoss
2024-04-26 02:41:17 +0000 UTCI believe that Deanna and her mother have slightly different power sets. Lwaxana is fully telepathic, as are all Betazeds. Although she is more powerful than most. Deanna however is half human and not a full telepath. She is an Empath. Basically Lwaxana can read thoughts and Deanna can read emotions. Compared to a full Betazed she is pretty weak sauce.
StealthMomo
2024-04-26 02:34:26 +0000 UTCYeah, that seems like a really odd thing to get hung up on. "Why would the Enterprise stick around to investigate the murder of 11,000 people"?
Jeff Cornell
2024-04-26 02:29:39 +0000 UTCDeana's mom also tend to not respect privacy of thought at all and would absolutely just casually read their mindset while Deana would need at least some suspicion
Andreas Schmitt
2024-04-26 02:13:22 +0000 UTCRecord a small into in the YouTube version stating the technical difficulties and people will understand
Troy Massey
2024-04-26 01:55:39 +0000 UTCIt's funny how much TV culture has changed. Nowadays, it's all about preventing spoilers, but back then, they would do anything just to get you to tune in, including basically revealing the entire plot.
Eric Brinkmann
2024-04-26 01:46:04 +0000 UTC26:20 Kevin is not a god. He may have amazing powers, but he can't reverse time or bring back the dead.
Jovet
2024-04-26 01:45:22 +0000 UTCShe couldn’t have rolled an insight check for deception? She gotta be proficient
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-04-26 01:35:38 +0000 UTC14:45 It's not that hard to pilot the Enterprise-D. It's all computer controlled, more or less. A monkey could do it. Eventually.
Jovet
2024-04-26 01:34:02 +0000 UTCCentons FTW!
James H
2024-04-26 01:33:17 +0000 UTC13:32 Yes, Deanna is only half-Betazoid. She can't read minds like her mother can.
Jovet
2024-04-26 01:32:01 +0000 UTCLwaxana is a full telepath, mind-speaking/seeing, etc. Deanna is half-Betazoid, so she is just empathic (can sense emotions, semi-telepathic). Troi wouldn't have been able to read their minds the way mom can.
StonyD
2024-04-26 01:31:52 +0000 UTC4:20 Yes, Q can do that.
Jovet
2024-04-26 01:22:17 +0000 UTCNah, it's the self-porking.
Jovet
2024-04-26 01:20:21 +0000 UTCProbably had it before. The house and property were recreated just as they used to be.
Jovet
2024-04-26 01:19:39 +0000 UTCLove the performances in this one. John Anderson’s scene in Deanna’s quarters is heart wrenching knowing that his own wife had died months before.
Column Meanie
2024-04-26 01:12:01 +0000 UTCSorry to hear about the technical issues there! Love the discussion. Can't wait for the next one!
Steven Johnson
2024-04-26 01:11:32 +0000 UTCHumans have been wiped out on a planet Picard/the Federation would certainly want to know who did it and why. I guess thats why its their duty to stay
Narnman
2024-04-26 00:50:21 +0000 UTCI never really considered that if the Uxbridge house is fake from the opening scene, then Kevin also created that phaser that didn't work so it couldn't hurt anyone.
Alan Thompson
2024-04-26 00:50:01 +0000 UTCI'm glad you guys don't even look at the episode titles, for some will be a big surprise.
Monty Crawford
2024-04-26 00:43:21 +0000 UTCAudio is the biggest pain of making content
Andreas Schmitt
2024-04-26 00:40:33 +0000 UTCI'm glad you started checking the teasers out. I had forgotten how either meaningless or overly spoilery they got
Julie Carter
2024-04-26 00:38:48 +0000 UTC
