FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S3E2 - The Ensigns of Command
Added 2024-04-21 17:44:27 +0000 UTCJosh's mic died for the latter half of our discussion and the Patron takes. We have a solution so it shouldn't be a problem moving forward, but apologies for the rough sound.
Comments
You guys mentioned that Dr. Crusher could have easily been cut from this episode - but sometimes it's just about getting people a paycheck to get them through to next week.
Adam from Germany
2024-05-06 19:09:59 +0000 UTCAwesome uncut review of this episode. I thought I had seen everything but somehow I missed this episode along the way. So it was a lot of fun to watch it with other people who were also watching it for the first time.
GeorgeReevesSupermanFan
2024-04-24 22:53:40 +0000 UTCHah, regarding dust on the bridge, pretty sure Riker mentioned back in that Irish and clone episode that the Enterprise is self-cleaning.
Charles D.
2024-04-23 20:10:34 +0000 UTCProsecuted by who? The Federation has no jurisdiction on that planet.
Regan
2024-04-23 14:06:04 +0000 UTCGoing forward, I've always found it fun to look for the plaque on other ships they visit. They usually hang it somewhere in frame, you just have to find it!
tyranusfan
2024-04-23 03:14:42 +0000 UTCIt's amazing that you guys thought this episode might have had a higher budget than usual, since $200,000 was cut from its budget at the last minute! I don't even know what they had intended to spend that money on. The main thing I remember in Snodgrass' preferred version of the script that would have made the episode more expensive was an elaborate, physical fight between Data, Gosheven and loyalists whom Snodgrass called Gosheven's "goons" prior to Gosheven disabling Data. (I think Snodgrass also indicated a separate set, an amphitheater, for Data's first public confrontation with Gosheven and the "reverse psychology" speech, rather than using the same area near the pumping station.)
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-04-22 15:24:36 +0000 UTCThe ADR is obvious, but it seems to be pretty impressively lip-synched. Like, it seems off but it doesn't LOOK wrong.
Joe Concepts
2024-04-22 14:59:00 +0000 UTCman if you guys like this episode THIS much you are going to be SO pleased with the rest of the show. I've never considered this episode anything special (though I do love Picard not answering the hail that's a great scene.) Not a bad episode but not one I really ever remember or think about even though I've probably seen it 4-5 times in my life. I love that you guys love some of the smaller less eventful episodes so much.
Todd Pritchett
2024-04-22 08:55:41 +0000 UTCI became a VCR program setting expert! Mostly for TNG.
Philbot
2024-04-22 07:15:35 +0000 UTCI get a kick about how sensitive to ADR the boys are, and I thought I was. But I never pinned down that the guy was completely looped. Maybe it's the booming voice that masked it for me. In The Exorcist, one of my favorite films, there is the scene after the girl uses the crucifix badly and knocks out the mother. The mother meets the priest outdoors and after some small talk tearfully begs him to do an exorcism or at least see her. The scene is 100% ADR and I am so impressed with it because it is an emotional scene and they both had to recreate the performance and match their mouths in a studio. When I point it out to people, they can't believe it.
Mike Rogers
2024-04-22 07:09:54 +0000 UTCSounds about right. The 'worst' of season 3 can go up against the majority of season 1-2 episodes.
JGoss
2024-04-22 06:24:45 +0000 UTCMelinda Snodgrass' original script is on her website. It's a good case study to compare the subtle (or sometimes drastic) changes between what is written and what ends up on screen. My favorite line "That was the stun setting. This is not" is almost completely different in the script.
JGoss
2024-04-22 06:23:00 +0000 UTCNo DVR but I recorded them all by programming the VCR🤷♂️
Derek Orr
2024-04-22 06:19:37 +0000 UTCIt's hard to quantify which was more badass: Data with a phaser, or Picard with a treaty.
JGoss
2024-04-22 06:18:15 +0000 UTCI forgot to post my Season 3 rankings last week, so here they are: Season 3 Best of the Best: 6 Excellent: 6 Enjoyable: 10 Time Filler with Good Moments: 4 At Least It’s Only 45ish Minutes: 0 No. Just…No: 0 As you can see, I don't have any ranked in the bottom two categories. Things are definitely improving.
KatWithAttitude
2024-04-22 04:27:56 +0000 UTCI love that this is the truth. Would have been a great episode in TOS, or in pre-Season 2 TNG. But this is just.... God. So many episodes I'm more excited about!
John
2024-04-22 02:51:22 +0000 UTCAt the time this episode aired I thought it was the best episode of TNG to air up to that date. Other episodes eclipsed this one given time.
Thicketdweller
2024-04-22 02:50:26 +0000 UTCEvery starship has a dedication plaque on the bridge. It includes the ship's name, motto, site of construction and the names of people involved in its design.
Regan
2024-04-22 02:48:33 +0000 UTCAccording to Memory Aplha (The Star Trek wiki)- "Gosheven was played by Grainger Hines, though his voice was dubbed by an unknown actor. At his request, his credit was removed from the final episode. After filming was completed, it was decided that Hines' voice didn't have the presence the producers wanted in the episode – they thought it sounded too much like John Wayne."
Regan
2024-04-22 02:36:40 +0000 UTCDam, you guys gushing all over this better than average meh episode, I can’t wait for the really good stuff (particularly the acting quality).
startrekiborg
2024-04-22 02:03:08 +0000 UTCPicards acting you ain’t seen nothing yet, there’s an ep this season that you won’t understand how he didn’t get an Emmy nom
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-04-22 00:26:05 +0000 UTCThe bottom line for the 3rd season and beyond, they got a better writing pool. It’s all about the writing
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-04-22 00:16:54 +0000 UTCAlways liked this one for building Data the commander
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-04-22 00:13:55 +0000 UTCI love how much you loved this episode snd the reasons why 🥰
Andrea R
2024-04-22 00:08:05 +0000 UTCI hope Gosheven gets prosecuted for his assault on a starfleet officer. Did not like his stubbornness nor his dislike of Data
Narnman
2024-04-21 23:37:35 +0000 UTCEvery starship has a dedication plaque on the wall. Kirk’s Enterprise had it near the turbolift door.
Strife
2024-04-21 23:21:05 +0000 UTCOh my bad. Yeah Alex said something about 'upgrading the transporters to super speed' as though time was the major issue and not radiation. 13:30 mark or so in the video. No biggie though
James Bottas
2024-04-21 23:08:10 +0000 UTCWe mention this at the beginning of the discussion. Did we say something that made it seem we forgot that?
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-04-21 23:00:28 +0000 UTCThis is a good episode and in either season one or two would be top 5 or maybe even top 3. But in season 3 it's mid...just because of how many extremely strong episodes are on the way.
Greg Quinn
2024-04-21 22:38:46 +0000 UTCLOL
James Bottas
2024-04-21 22:38:14 +0000 UTCNah this time I think its just kind of a plot contrivance that gets brought up early and not really focused on for the rest of the episode ;)
James Bottas
2024-04-21 22:37:15 +0000 UTC:John_Wayne_voice: So they think they can take my voice away, punk
Jovet
2024-04-21 22:37:08 +0000 UTCThe computer "analysis" could have helped, though. What about after Picard said "Get me the Sheliak" and Worf walked right past his station ... that's a much bigger WTF.
Jovet
2024-04-21 22:36:19 +0000 UTC...spoilers...
Jovet
2024-04-21 22:35:24 +0000 UTCI always notice overdubs. They just don't sound the same. They're usually too loud, and they don't have the same resonance or echo that voices from the set have.
Jovet
2024-04-21 22:34:13 +0000 UTCROTFL!
Jovet
2024-04-21 22:33:35 +0000 UTCMaybe they talked over those parts. LOL (I didn't think so, but...)
Jovet
2024-04-21 22:32:43 +0000 UTCThey clearly had a search program running.
Sam Langanke
2024-04-21 22:27:36 +0000 UTCWell, who sits behind a bar?
Sam Langanke
2024-04-21 22:21:43 +0000 UTCAnd in the end they only had a handful of shots where you can even see that theres real water in there, even in HD
Nathan Koga
2024-04-21 22:03:56 +0000 UTCWhat I read was. Grainger Hines claims the studio did not like his voice. They thought he sounded too much like John Wayne. So they dubbed his lines with another actor. In protest of this action, he demanded that his name be removed from the credits. If true, can't say as I blame him.
Lt Dan I scream
2024-04-21 21:18:17 +0000 UTCThe ONLY criticism I have for this episode was Picard being able to find the ONE paragraph of the treaty out of THOUSANDS, that solved the problem. Felt a bit like a Deus Ex Machina.
Ee'char
2024-04-21 20:32:21 +0000 UTCNow that data thinks kissing is acceptable casually, how long before worf gets a nice peck on the cheek from him
SinocTheHodgeheg
2024-04-21 20:30:21 +0000 UTCI wonder if earlier generations enjoyed trek more watching on small tube tv sets often with an antenna to get "better signal", we never noticed the voice dubs or makeup limitations. Even the ship hanging from string from the ceiling looked fine pre-cgi.
Alan Thompson
2024-04-21 20:12:12 +0000 UTCmake sure to dub him in an unnecessarily deep, stoic voice
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-04-21 20:02:19 +0000 UTC"We didn't see enough Geordi" You don't remember the episode Ex-Mrs. Burton wrote where he was gut shot by morons for 48 minutes.
Juan Tutrífor
2024-04-21 19:57:08 +0000 UTCSeems like you guys may have forgotten about the radiation element of the plot. That's why Data had to go down alone, because he won't be harmed by it, but anyone else would be. Also, the radiation prevents the Transporter from being used, so that's what Geordi and O'Brien were working on, modifying the transporter to work in spite of the radiation. ;) Great reaction and discussion guys
James Bottas
2024-04-21 19:46:14 +0000 UTCJosh sound was adr, lol!
Troy Massey
2024-04-21 19:44:25 +0000 UTCYou guys made a comment about "Why couldn't this have been the first episode??" Back then, it wasn't nearly as easy to communicate with your audience about season premiere dates. And if they missed it, there was no DVR to record and watch it later. You had to wait months or years for the re-runs. As a result, shows would often put their best episodes in the middle of the season, when viewers were most likely to have adapted their schedules and gotten in the swing of it. Then of course at the end of the season, when some viewers had moved on to other things, is when shows would often throw their time-and-budget "filler" episodes like "Shades of Gray". More complicated structures like two-part episodes and season cliff-hangers to get people buzzing would become a mainstay of television soon, but we just weren't quite there yet.
Dan Halstead
2024-04-21 19:41:14 +0000 UTCOh that's interesting. It makes a weird amount of sense. Grainger Hines does not sound unlike the dubbing actor though, which made the whole situation strange as well.
JD Nevesytrof
2024-04-21 19:40:23 +0000 UTCSo I looked this up. There's a lot of rumors around this ADR thing but the one thing I found to make the most sense is this: In the scene with the aqueduct, there was real water flowing in that thing, so those scene had to be ADRed no matter what because of the water sound. However Grainger Hines had a scheduling conflict and couldn't do the ADR. So they hired a different actor to do his lines, and obviously that meant they had to redo ALL his lines. When Grainger Hines found out about this, he asked for his name to be removed from the credits.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-04-21 19:13:52 +0000 UTC"Why did they dub him??" Me explaining in the second comment why they dubbed him: *side-eye*
JD Nevesytrof
2024-04-21 19:10:04 +0000 UTCYep. "USS ENTERPRISE - STARSHIP CLASS - SAN FRANCISCO"
Steven Johnson
2024-04-21 19:04:30 +0000 UTCAccording to Memory Alpha the TOS Enterprise's dedication plaque was located next to the bridge turbolift on the port bulkhead. Apparently different ships could have them in different places.
KatWithAttitude
2024-04-21 18:54:18 +0000 UTC18:15 The dedication plaque has always been there. All Federation ships get them. The original series Enterprise had one. Somewhere.
Jovet
2024-04-21 18:42:17 +0000 UTCApparently, the ADR for Gosheven was because the studio didn't like his voice and had another actor dub over him.
Code76
2024-04-21 18:40:32 +0000 UTCNot a terrible idea if I have the time
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-04-21 18:29:49 +0000 UTC5:38 The humans that crash landed learned to adapt their physology to survive the radiation. If any of the humans on the Enterprise went down to the planet, they would be injured or die from the radiation. Dr. Crusher may be able to develop a technique for treatment, but it would have taken time and wouldn't have helped the plot any.
Jovet
2024-04-21 18:28:49 +0000 UTCA key point is that the treaty is older than the colony.
Jovet
2024-04-21 18:26:49 +0000 UTCJosh.... (UNCREDITED) Why was he ADRd for this discussion!?
Steven Johnson
2024-04-21 18:14:25 +0000 UTCEnjoyed the discussion. Thank you for all your work.
Jacob
2024-04-21 18:14:13 +0000 UTCThe Discord had a great idea: for the YouTube version, you should ADR Josh in a tribute to the episode.
CM Waters
2024-04-21 18:12:26 +0000 UTCA great episode that shows the strengths of TNG - using words and diplomacy as much as possible, keeping in mind alien cultures and behaviours and adapting when necessary.
Mara
2024-04-21 18:10:25 +0000 UTCLove the new setup here!
Jeremy S
2024-04-21 18:03:59 +0000 UTC
