FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S2E16 - Q Who
Added 2024-03-08 13:05:00 +0000 UTC
Comments
We have arrived at the episode I was most anticipating long long ago back during TOS when it was clear we would proceed to TNG after TOS and TAS. There are other episodes of TNG I was and am stoked for... but this was the most "wait until they get there" moment I was anticipating in TNG. I was not disappointed.
Knights Who Say Sledge
2024-03-27 16:05:02 +0000 UTCPlus, the episode previews were often misleading, and we'd spend all week speculating about what was going to happen.
tyranusfan
2024-03-14 23:34:17 +0000 UTCI've always thought it was Q helping the Federation in a way. Sure, he forcibly introduced the two before they would have normally, but it gave the Federation a heads up and time to try to adapt and prepare for the Borg.
Boggle
2024-03-13 04:15:04 +0000 UTCGuys. It’s pronounced “Duh-lance-ee”. John de Lancie. Like “Nancy” 🖖
Shatner's Cigarette
2024-03-12 15:48:04 +0000 UTC"Shut up, Captain." - everyone
Juan Tutrífor
2024-03-11 21:44:54 +0000 UTCBeing polite to machines, later machines being very impolite
Juan Tutrífor
2024-03-11 21:41:27 +0000 UTCOk you can think w/e you want.
Jason Biggs
2024-03-11 15:50:12 +0000 UTCI think this counts as a spoiler, despite your "maybe"
Ee'char
2024-03-11 15:47:41 +0000 UTCThat's exactly it. When audiences heard "hive mind" in 1989 they were like "what? what's a high mind? what?" And honestly, in the mass media since 1989 I've seen a hive mind done properly once - the Zerg in Starcraft.
ellmo
2024-03-11 11:05:05 +0000 UTCQ Continuum Pips = rank
tux1313
2024-03-11 03:16:28 +0000 UTCOk but it's in C tier. After several A and B tiers.
Dan Halstead
2024-03-10 22:36:03 +0000 UTCDo hyou though?
Dan Halstead
2024-03-10 22:25:54 +0000 UTCOh hugh knows 😉
Jason Biggs
2024-03-10 22:24:28 +0000 UTCWhen you're not a hive mind you can end up spilling your drink on your leader?
Dan Halstead
2024-03-10 21:49:13 +0000 UTCI think "hive mind" became more of a trope *because* TNG did so well with the borg. I'm having trouble thinking of pre-TNG instances of it except maybe Enders Game, which was around the same time. (One probably inspired the other tbh)
Dan Halstead
2024-03-10 21:47:27 +0000 UTCThe secret Kryptonite for borgs. Hot chocolate poured on them.
Lt Dan I scream
2024-03-10 20:25:55 +0000 UTCThe intro re Gomez does connect with the episode. Think about it.
Andrew Bassey
2024-03-10 16:35:04 +0000 UTCIf they had changed airdate order it would have made a great end note.. “they will be coming”. After the writers strike though, I’m sure they probably didn’t have the leeway to play with production vs airdate order.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-03-10 08:16:26 +0000 UTCThe actress herself seems like a great person (as far as I can tell) and overall I liked the character well enough largely for the reasons you mentioned. But I can understand why she wasn't everyone's cup of tea (or hot chocolate)..
Greg Quinn
2024-03-10 07:58:50 +0000 UTCMy prediction was WAY off. I love that you guys can keep me guessing!
Lindsey
2024-03-10 06:25:37 +0000 UTCS1 E25 22:12 Worf says there is nothing left of the outpost. It was as if a great force just scooped it off the face of the planet.
Andrea R
2024-03-10 02:28:08 +0000 UTCShe said destroyed our cities at 20:27. At 24:30 she says they swarmed the cities and there was pretty much nothing left. When they destroyed the neutral zone areas is when I believe they Said all the technology was ripped out. I think the assumption is they did they same thing to her people as they did to the neutral zone areas destroyed.
Andrea R
2024-03-10 02:19:44 +0000 UTCI remember that as well. But I don't remember when she said it. I thought it was when she was explaining to Borg to Picard for the first time on 10 forward maybe. I'll see if I can find it.
Andrea R
2024-03-10 02:10:12 +0000 UTCIn defense of Sonya Gomez- When watching as a kid I always tried to imagine where I would fit on the Enterprise. Everyone seemed to be so competent. It was very refreshing to meet a character that was not cookie cutter perfect Starfleet. She got nervous, talked too much, made silly mistakes, and she STILL belonged in Starfleet. Social anxiety and just plain old social awkwardness resonates with many and I think it was worth a shot in my opinion. Though I agree, I think it's done better with other characters over the years though for sure. 💗
Andrea R
2024-03-10 02:07:22 +0000 UTCUnderrated writing/directing moment when Guinean calls the bridge is when Riker looks to Worf instead of just saying that everything was normal.
Pokeysaurus
2024-03-10 00:40:27 +0000 UTCThe don’t like Sonya. Well so much for post 2009
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-03-09 23:40:42 +0000 UTCGuys, I chose my words carefully, and yes if I overstep I will always go back, edit, and self-censor. I've even deleted some of my posts after reconsidering my words or having someone point out that I said something was revealing to specific details. General statements about the quality of a future episode is not a spoiler. It's a generalized opinion, and it has been a part of this shared experienced since they started watching TOS. Sharing our general excitement or dismay for an upcoming episode is not a spoiler. Even with all that said, in this particular instance, certain quarters of the audience have even been actively trying to convince them to just skip it entirely. So, really... Caution is good, but let's not destroy a past time that has been part of this whole experience since its inception. @Smart campaign: That's interesting. I mean that's still a tight budget. To squeeze in effects, actors, extras, and a new score in less than a million per episode when divided evenly. Obviously its not evenly divided, and we know for a fact that was part of the problem. They burned so much money on EDD and Q Who. That's just the nature of the beast. If you burn through budget on new FX and music sooner, you won't have it later.
Steven Johnson
2024-03-09 23:02:47 +0000 UTCI appreciate your viewpoint Steven, but respectfully, that's not really what's being talked about here. I'm not talking about "The next episode is great/shit" because that's an opinion. "This is big" is also not really what I'm talking about because it's general. It's non-specific. It doesn't really tell you if it's meant within the context of one episode or many. Again, it's another opinion. What I'm talking about is "This character/alien species will return" type comments. That's statement of a fact. Big difference. It makes me think back to TOS when the guys just met Harry Mudd for the first time. If I recall it was the very next video when Josh was recapping the last one, Mudd's Women, and he goes, "according to comments, he's in two more episodes"...! I'm paraphrasing but my point is, obviously that advance knowledge changed the reaction I'm tuning in for (on some level)
James Bottas
2024-03-09 23:02:19 +0000 UTCFor some reason, for years I misremembered Gomez being played by Jennifer Tilly 🤷♂️
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-03-09 22:58:12 +0000 UTCWell, it certainly made a difference here!
Steven Johnson
2024-03-09 22:49:07 +0000 UTCTelling someone "just wait!" or "This is big!" Is not a spoiler. Anymore than if you go up to your friend and say "Hey, have you seen such and such? Oh, it's amazing!" I mean this with the utmost respect for my fellow Target Audience patrons, and I completely understand the concerns regarding spoilers... But the shared experience between these guys and we, the audience, goes back to the very beginning of their Trek journey, and throughout TOS it was a part of the shared experience that the audience would say things like "This next episode is amazing/shit." and Alex and Josh would react to those thoughts, and something of a dialogue would be formed as a result. To say nothing of the fact that their fresh eyes on things have led people to actively changing their minds throughout that discourse on certain episodes. Season One of TNG is a prime example of this. It's one of the reasons I'm very excited to see their reaction to Star Trek V. What is probably the most maligned of the TOS movies. Again, saying that is not a spoiler. Saying something is good or bad is not, has never been, and will never be, a spoiler. A spoiler is revealing specific plot, character, and story details that *ruin* a first time watch of something. If you say "Oh, man, just wait until next time when character X gets killed because of species Y!" That's a spoiler. Saying "This is where things get good" is NOT a spoiler. It's an opinion. Stating "Oh, just wait for what comes next!" Is not a spoiler.
Steven Johnson
2024-03-09 22:44:39 +0000 UTC@Strife I didn't ask about Data, I asked about Guinan. She never talked about cities ripped out of the ground.
Jovet
2024-03-09 21:06:56 +0000 UTCTHE PLOT = Q just wanted to play along with them but they wouldnt let him play Starfleet. So he made them play with him.
Bradley Shafer
2024-03-09 19:23:16 +0000 UTCTNG budgets were allocated per season rather than per episode. Season 2 had well over $20m. I think season 1 had a bit more but that included the cost of building / refitting sets from the films. The cost gradually increased with every season but I don’t know to what extent that was due to the pay of the actors as they became more famous in the roles. I could be wrong about the number but I think one of the show runners said by the end of TNG they had over 200 stock footage shots of the ship exterior plus stuff like the saucer sep and the close up aft torpedos firing (which this episode reused from Farpoint). I doubt the costs were the barrier (especially given the late 80s fashion for synthesised instruments). Maybe delays production to include a score while they were rushing episodes out, as they can’t make more cuts or add more frames once the score is on there?
Smear Campaign
2024-03-09 18:28:08 +0000 UTCData specifically says that the Borg did the attack in the Neutral Zone in the episode. It isn't subtext. He lays it right out there when he says that the attack on the planet is identical to what they observed in the Neutral Zone.
Strife
2024-03-09 18:09:15 +0000 UTCWhen did she say that? Episode time index?
Jovet
2024-03-09 16:59:16 +0000 UTC“And Microbrain! Growl for me, let me know you still care!”
Jovet
2024-03-09 16:58:45 +0000 UTC@Sam Lagnake I prefer to pretend it doesn't exist and that someone named J.J. Abrams makes mediocre whiskey.
Jovet
2024-03-09 16:57:26 +0000 UTCNot sure if anyone has mentioned this yet but... interesting how Guinan mentions that the borg just ripped her people's cities right out of the ground... sounds familiar to something that happened in the episode 'neutral zone' doesn't it ?
Mordock_Vapelord
2024-03-09 16:45:42 +0000 UTCI was disappointed no one commented on my having Q say, "I am Discord," in my long comment on the reaction. (Searching for too much ego-boost, I know...)
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-03-09 14:46:13 +0000 UTCSome fans have suggested that Season 2 would have been better if it ended with "Q Who," but that wouldn't have worked for the reason Jovet mentions.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-03-09 14:42:57 +0000 UTCThe most important continuity is Q's jabs at Worf.
Ausyarr
2024-03-09 14:18:40 +0000 UTCThere's a replimat for that. We saw it later on the show.
Darin Wagner
2024-03-09 13:57:49 +0000 UTCModern Trek is worh watching. Just my opinion? Yes. So is yours.
Sam Langanke
2024-03-09 12:09:19 +0000 UTCOf course they didn't recognise that she was the triple-breasted woman in Total Recall. They probably didn't look at her face even once in Total Recall.
Regan
2024-03-09 11:01:28 +0000 UTCJust so you know, the rank on their collars are called pips and they work like this: 1gold-Ensign 1gold,1black-Lieutenant Jr. 2gold-Lieutenant Sr. 2gold,1black-Lieutenant Commander 3gold-Commander 4gold-Captain 1,2,3,or4 in a box-different levels of admiral 1black-depending on who you ask either Ensign Jr, Enlisted, or some other non-officer position Both Lieutenant Jr & Sr are often just referred to as just Lieutenant. Lieutenant Commanders are sometimes just referred to as Commander
E Parhas
2024-03-09 07:02:56 +0000 UTCYeah all those live wires...maybe a bunch of water or water based liquid was the trick all along.
Greg Quinn
2024-03-09 06:23:31 +0000 UTCGotta replicate some isolinear chips from time to time. Then after you install them, have some potato chips.
Rj Simas
2024-03-09 06:13:59 +0000 UTCBingo! Someone using his noggin!
Jovet
2024-03-09 02:02:08 +0000 UTCROTFL!
Jovet
2024-03-09 01:59:51 +0000 UTCAnd, like Q, the Borg are bigger than the TV series can contain. They did not seem to react when the Borg were named, so who knows if pop culture got to them first (discussion says 50:50).
Jovet
2024-03-09 01:58:25 +0000 UTCYes, Tony, I'd love to discuss this topic right now too, because I have my own ideas, but it will have to wait. :-/
Jovet
2024-03-09 01:53:43 +0000 UTCI have to say, you're really on point with the discussion about all the narrative potential and issues a faction like the Borg can have. Especially interesting that you point to the hive mind as something that has been overdone, because when I watched this for the first time it felt really fresh and fascinating. Of course that was over 30 years ago. Also, every time you speculate about future events in TNG (and Trek overall) you'd like to see, I can't help but think you will be both immensely pleased and occaisonally really disappointed in the years to come. I wish I could experience that again, but modern Trek really isn't worth watching (mostly).
Tim b
2024-03-09 01:37:06 +0000 UTC26:08 - You like somber endings? You're gonna looooooove DS9
Tim b
2024-03-09 01:06:30 +0000 UTCI wasn't going to mention that but I think every person on the planet agrees with you.
Monty Crawford
2024-03-09 01:03:00 +0000 UTCEnter... the Borg! Awwwww yeah
Billy T. Riker
2024-03-09 00:53:08 +0000 UTCOh whoops, you mentioned it in the video! Nevermind.
GreenCauldron08
2024-03-09 00:41:51 +0000 UTCGuinan being able to put up any kind of fight against Q doesn't really make sense when we consider the fact that her species got decimated by the Borg, and the Borg...as powerful as they are are still reliant on ships and are not on a Q plane of existence. I guess there are a few ways to rationalize Guinan being powerful enough, at least Vis via Q...but that exploration would risk spoiling so I'll just leave it at that.
Greg Quinn
2024-03-09 00:34:51 +0000 UTCIf you're watching in release order, does that mean you'll be watching Star Trek V after the next two episodes?
GreenCauldron08
2024-03-09 00:16:57 +0000 UTCNo, not canon, but fun to imagine directions the show may not have gone. I remember reading one book where they speculate the aliens from a Dyson Sphere were the Borg (I think that is spoiler free enough).
startrekiborg
2024-03-09 00:08:57 +0000 UTCLol
startrekiborg
2024-03-09 00:02:44 +0000 UTCWell let’s see what Starfleet academy gives us next year hopefully
Jason Biggs
2024-03-08 23:39:35 +0000 UTCI’d like to see an Academy show that follows a single character. I’d have liked to see a”Young Picard” but I’m anti non PStew casting..
Philbot
2024-03-08 23:37:53 +0000 UTCI would assume they're general purpose replicators that can replicate food.
Steven Johnson
2024-03-08 23:37:01 +0000 UTCPretty much every one I’ve ever heard has pronounced Delance like Delancey. 🤷♂️
Philbot
2024-03-08 23:35:24 +0000 UTCThis episode sets up so much of Star Trek. Crucial episode to watch
Miah1138
2024-03-08 22:56:36 +0000 UTCIn you were to mimic how we originally watched the episodes you would have to see the cheesy next week preview at the end of the previous episode "On next weeks episodes of Staaaaar Trek The Next Generation, Q Returns!". I also wonder how you manage to not see episode titles when you run them off blu ray (or even streaming). You guys have an assistant?
Mike Rogers
2024-03-08 22:54:01 +0000 UTCStar Trek the Next, Next Generation, with Captain Wesley Crusher? Oh God!!! Noooo!!!
startrekiborg
2024-03-08 22:42:26 +0000 UTCMissed opportunity for Ensign Gomez to dump a second cup of hot chocolate on the Borg and save the day
Alan Thompson
2024-03-08 22:34:07 +0000 UTCIMHO the finale is the worst episode out of all 7 seasons of TNG. I'm gonna pass on that one as I still want my 44min back from the first time i watched it.
Smear Campaign
2024-03-08 22:05:09 +0000 UTCEspecially as 1 of the worst episodes is still to come….i think it’s the next ep but not 100% on that
Warpiggaming
2024-03-08 21:52:13 +0000 UTCI love that your spitballing goes in some directions that mirror the show or other shows. not going to say which ones to avoid spoilers.
Lt Dan I scream
2024-03-08 21:49:39 +0000 UTCIt’s quite possible they forgot things people have said. I wouldn’t make any assumptions. I’ve really tweaked many of my comments in the past to try and avoid spoilers.
Jon1701
2024-03-08 21:44:50 +0000 UTCI was just about to bring this up. 18 crew members dead and no call to the Dr about possible injuries.
Stephen Wright
2024-03-08 21:19:09 +0000 UTCWell that says it all!
Ee'char
2024-03-08 20:27:11 +0000 UTCI mean, it wouldn't surprise me if they just used in vitro fertilization. No need for sex, they just extract the genetic components from two different Borg, mix them, voila. They have enough Borg on the ship to not worry about inbreeding or anything.
Ian Westcott
2024-03-08 20:10:05 +0000 UTCI feel like Gomez is super competent, but she just doesn't have the people skills. She's one of those people who succeeded because they were INCREDIBLY driven, she's just a bit more open about it than such people usually are.
Ian Westcott
2024-03-08 20:07:38 +0000 UTCWhen trying to avoid spoilers, I sortof end up forcing myself to look at something while not processing it. Like... I might see an image, but force my eyes to be slightly unfocused. Still able to figure out that I'm looking at something, but not really absorbing what that something is. If they rip the blu-rays, it can create files without titles, but I don't think they're doing that.
Ian Westcott
2024-03-08 20:04:48 +0000 UTCWe use the “play all” feature on the blu ray and hope to god they are in the right order
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-03-08 19:55:53 +0000 UTCDidn’t notice, and not really surprised we didn’t.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-03-08 19:54:02 +0000 UTCFrom what I hear "Elementary, Dear Data" Was also a very expensive episode for them. So that one and Q Who ate up too much budget. Worth it though, two fantastic episodes. And IMO the season 2 finale is not great, but not totally bad either. It has great moments IMO. But our guys will see when they get there :)
Andreas Schmitt
2024-03-08 19:44:56 +0000 UTCYou're right, and the guys will still be excited when threads are picked back up. Still, I'll always take completely blind over mostly blind
James Bottas
2024-03-08 19:41:23 +0000 UTCYou make a very good point. In this instance though, the episode does end on a more blatant note than 'Conspiracy' that events have been set in motion.
Numinous2019
2024-03-08 19:24:53 +0000 UTCI think you guys are overthinking the "who can see Q " thing. The senior staff already knew q was around and their attenton was focused on the borg, so they didnt react much to his appearing and disappearing because it wasnt the immediate threat. I dont think theres supposed to be more to it.
David Kunard
2024-03-08 19:24:45 +0000 UTCThere are still a couple of good episodes left in this season (in my opinion), but honestly think this episode should have been the season finale.
Monty Crawford
2024-03-08 19:24:26 +0000 UTCAt this point you guys have read dozens of comments telling you that the Borg have far reaching impact on the rest of the series. I feel if this isn't an outright spoiler it at least rubs all up on spoiler territory, depending on what you might have known in advance just through pop culture references. I'd always prefer that you guys go forward "wondering if" rather than being sure a thread will be picked up later. I commented about this concern on the Patron Takes post but ended up deleting it because of the sheer number of posts doing it. It is what it is, I guess. We all get excited by these episodes and sometimes the floodgates just open up.. For what it's worth, no specifics here, but sometimes things seem to be getting telegraphed for a later return, but then don't return. Assuming the first comment doesn't just lay it all out for you, it's good to keep that in mind going forward, which, I think you guys do already. Great episode, great discussion!
James Bottas
2024-03-08 19:11:22 +0000 UTC"The most memorable camera work I've seen in... a little bit" 😂😂
Ee'char
2024-03-08 18:54:39 +0000 UTCThey didn't "skip ahead"... the YouTube releases are about a month behind where they actually are watching and recording. So, if you're used to where they are in the show on YouTube, to suddenly be a Patron and see that they're further along, could be a bit confusing. You just suddenly have much more content you can immediately enjoy!
Jovet
2024-03-08 18:52:48 +0000 UTCI can't take anything in a book written based off of a television show as "canon." I just can't. I can't even take the animated series(s) seriously.
Jovet
2024-03-08 18:49:45 +0000 UTCThe discs they have don't have titles on them. Apparently for series after TNG, that's not the case. I've never considered the episode titles spoiler-y, but it is more fun to watch the show without knowing them until they're flashed in your face.
Jovet
2024-03-08 18:48:01 +0000 UTCHow did you feel about Dr. Pulaski NOT appearing in this episode??
Ee'char
2024-03-08 18:47:03 +0000 UTC@Steven Johnson Geordi can see everything everyone else presumably does. And so much more.
Jovet
2024-03-08 18:46:05 +0000 UTCPlot armor ⟩ shields
Jovet
2024-03-08 18:42:50 +0000 UTCI feel like this was the start of TNG forging it's own path and breaking away (in a good way) from TOS. The original concept around what the Borg represents was such a big idea back then. It wasn't just their over powered technology, it was that what drove them wasn't negotiable. There would never be a treaty or neutral zone with them and so how does an organization built around exploration and uniting civilizations deal with that??
Erik Baca
2024-03-08 18:41:26 +0000 UTCnot sure what you mean? it seems in order
Narnman
2024-03-08 18:35:55 +0000 UTCYou guys have no idea how long I've waited for this moment for both of your reactions to the debut of the Borg. I loved your reactions to this episode, from the whole Federation & Romulan outposts in the Neutral Zone reference to finally getting an official look at what these beings are. Well done, guys! And Alex, you, and Picard, are right about one thing about the Borg: you guys haven't seen the last of them! And I will, of course, not disclose any information on when they will return, except this: BE READY.
Anthony Goodwin
2024-03-08 18:22:22 +0000 UTCYou guys' talk about going into the episodes with no prior knowledge is very interesting to me, showing just how different TV watching is now compared to what the younger people are used to. Going in completely cold on an episodes is always better, but keep in mind when originally aired, every episode before the ending credits rolled gave us a 15-second "Next time on Star Trek: The Next Generation..." teaser. So, many of us would've known Q would be back, and we'd get a glimpse of the weird new aliens. Also, the fear of "SPOILERS!" wasn't such a big thing. I remember as a kid describing episodes for people who missed it. Why? Because if you missed it, you probably weren't seeing it again until reruns over Christmas or the summer. Sure, by then we had started recording episodes on the VCR, but mostly no one expected people may not have watched the original airing. It was first the spread of the DVR and especially later on with streaming that we entered the "No Spoilers" culture. It existed a little with movies then, I guess. But not like now.
Joe Concepts
2024-03-08 18:22:13 +0000 UTCwhy did u guys skip ahead to pen pals?
David Kunard
2024-03-08 18:13:41 +0000 UTCI will say for various reasons this does FEEL more like a Season 3 and up episode. Just the look and tone, anyway. There are other spoilery reasons, but I will avoid that. I remember early in the days of reruns, I used to always think "Oh, right, this was in Season 2!"
Joe Concepts
2024-03-08 18:12:58 +0000 UTCTo be fair, they seem to be noting the obvious telegraphing in the episode, basically outright telling us this one is important.
Joe Concepts
2024-03-08 18:11:38 +0000 UTCBut just for the guys' benefit, it should be noted for the most part, no Trek material outside of the movies and TV shows are "canon" to the producers. They may borrow from each other a little bit, but any novel or comic could be contradicted on-screen at any time.
Joe Concepts
2024-03-08 18:10:07 +0000 UTCWe are da hurgen burgen flurgen.
Steven Johnson
2024-03-08 17:58:18 +0000 UTCWell... """"wrote""""
Steven Johnson
2024-03-08 17:57:43 +0000 UTCthey named the borg after a swedish tennis player??
Narnman
2024-03-08 17:50:01 +0000 UTCAgain, very much what DeLancie's later Discord character ended up being (within the confines of the demographic of that show). If I ever meet the guy at a convention I would probably ask him how he feels the two characters are similar yet different from each other.
CM Waters
2024-03-08 17:48:10 +0000 UTC(Paraphrasing) “It’d be great to get an episode where someone has to deal with people being killed by the Borg because of Picard, blaming him for it.” Damn, that sounds like a good idea. I personally think they should have made a whole show based on that concept.
Ragnarok
2024-03-08 17:41:02 +0000 UTCI'm curious how they pull that off. On the streaming sites its basically right there, and then on the blu-rays all the episodes are named.
Steven Johnson
2024-03-08 17:33:48 +0000 UTCThat raises a question, can Geordi read a paper book? He can see a lot of things, but ink on a page? The "Next of kin to chaos" line is actually a call back to the original read description for Q. He's basically supposed to be a lucifer-type character. Arrogant, proud, full of himself, and constantly testing the resolve of the Enteprise crew. Even tempting them. Picard even admits with great relish from Stewart "to learn about you is frankly... Provocative." Yeah. Q was and is a stroke of genius, and it came about because of what could be considered a terrible exec decision.
Steven Johnson
2024-03-08 17:33:14 +0000 UTCRemember the Doomsday Machine, several of the books strongly imply that an ancient alien race built a fleet of them to fight the Borg and lost. With that alien race now extinct & only one Doomsday machine left with a damaged targeting computer drifting aimlessly through the galaxy until the events of the TOS episode
Justin DiBari
2024-03-08 17:31:12 +0000 UTCShe's a trooper, for sure. I think "ditzy" is the best description of her. She's so fidgety and her social decorum is all over the place.
Steven Johnson
2024-03-08 17:29:50 +0000 UTC"Well you see boys when two Borg love each other they..."
Steven Johnson
2024-03-08 17:28:42 +0000 UTCWhich always raised the question, why didn't they do that while pursuing the D?
Steven Johnson
2024-03-08 17:28:16 +0000 UTCNow if Ensign Gomez had ordered Fireball from the Engineering replicator, that would've been a great character intro. "*hic* Awright, Reading Rainbow, let's see what these f***in' dilithium crystals can DO!"
Juan Tutrífor
2024-03-08 17:26:09 +0000 UTCI do think not reading the show titles ahead of time is the way to go.
Stephen Wright
2024-03-08 17:22:50 +0000 UTCIn this case it's not an assumption Jovet. They've been made aware of that badness since very early on. I seldom, if ever, make assumptions.
Steven Johnson
2024-03-08 17:20:35 +0000 UTCPlot wise yes, but I think from a quality perspective and direction it's all going to get better.
Stephen Wright
2024-03-08 17:17:23 +0000 UTCOoh, I almost forgot about the other one....
Juan Tutrífor
2024-03-08 17:16:49 +0000 UTCThere are two more episodes this season that are specifically required to setup the stage for future seasons.
Jovet
2024-03-08 17:15:15 +0000 UTCShatner wrote a book about Kirk bitch-slapping the Borg somehow for some reason. It was exactly as stupid as it sounds.
Juan Tutrífor
2024-03-08 17:14:51 +0000 UTCI never saw her as comic relief. Her spill-in with he captain was funny, but her dialogue made it very clear she's fresh out of the academy, new to the ship (NOT her very first day), very outgoing, and she's worked hard to get herself where she is. She's a real person with dreams and needs and wants.
Jovet
2024-03-08 17:14:03 +0000 UTCScotty didn't want to leave his work every time he wanted haggis and Lagavulin, and Starfleet does whatever the Miracle Worker wants.
Juan Tutrífor
2024-03-08 17:12:34 +0000 UTCI would make absolutely NO assumptions about they may have heard or know!
Jovet
2024-03-08 17:09:09 +0000 UTC@Darin Wagner You say "not really" but there are lots of things we could all say at this point in time, but it still seems to me Josh and Alex want no knowledge of future happenings, just as we had no knowledge in 1989. (Beyond the "Next time on Star Trek, The Next Generation...") Because it hadn't been written or aired yet. I mean, I get excited just writing things like "Oh you guys have NO IDEA [how good] what is coming is!" but that's as far as I dare cross the spoiler line-in-the-sand.
Jovet
2024-03-08 17:02:18 +0000 UTCI suppose Gomez was intended as a more 'relatable' character. Someone who isn't super-competent and who has lapses and makes mistakes. Someone who doesn't fully fit in. Obviously spoilers prevent me from talking about this concept any more.
Numinous2019
2024-03-08 16:55:13 +0000 UTC1)Nice touch with the cube in the window in the background. 2)Didn't expect a Kirk acting scene would mine have gotten picked, but it is appreciated. 3)What, no drinking hot chocolate during the discussion? 😉 Edit 4)The fun part about Picard saying Q is akin to chaos (though to be fair, your example with Joker is too far if you've ever read "Emperor Joker" when Joker gets 99% of Mxyzptlk's power), DeLancie would actually go on to voice a Lord of Chaos character by the name of Discord in "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic"
CM Waters
2024-03-08 16:49:28 +0000 UTCAny chance you might do a mock discussion of the season 2 final episode? It would help ease the pain.
Numinous2019
2024-03-08 16:48:11 +0000 UTCI think the stage is set for Season 3 and beyond. The remainder of Season 2 may never hit the highs here, but future episodes will and frequently surpass!
Stephen Wright
2024-03-08 16:44:42 +0000 UTCEnsign Gomez as comic relief was NOT what the actress was promised for the part, but not too long ago the Gomez character was given a redemption! You will just have to keep watching all of Trek to see what! The actress, Lycia Nash, is a very lovely person though, I think she goes to some Star Trek conventions, and I think she's in at least one of the larger star trek facebook meme groups
Vina
2024-03-08 16:36:19 +0000 UTC26:45 Just you wait. Just. You. Wait.
Jovet
2024-03-08 16:28:52 +0000 UTC29:50 There are worse things than dying.
Jovet
2024-03-08 16:21:35 +0000 UTC25:02 It wasn't an uncomfortable long time... the soon-to-be-iconic "Yeah, there's that sexy ship" theme was playing.
Jovet
2024-03-08 16:16:35 +0000 UTC19:57 "Where are these babies coming from?" That's a really good question, and not easy to answer. It will be really fun to be able to talk about this kind of stuff in the future.
Jovet
2024-03-08 16:10:35 +0000 UTC17:55 The idea of going to explore the Borg vessel kinda horrified Guinan. But, if you think about it, how many other species which the Borg have met have done the same thing? Probably not many. It very subtly sets up that humans *are* different.
Jovet
2024-03-08 16:06:15 +0000 UTC13:58 Don't know if you picked up on it yet, but the Borg "beamed" onto the ship while its shields were UP.
Jovet
2024-03-08 16:00:45 +0000 UTCI don't like Sonya Gomez either. Something about her bugs me but it's hard for me to articulate? For me, part of it is her acting and her way of speaking. Not that it's.. bad, it just feels out of place for me I suppose. And her character just makes me want to facepalm, but considering Geordie's reaction, that's probably deliberate, lol.
Lady Beyond The Wall
2024-03-08 15:55:14 +0000 UTCWanting individualized borg you miss the point of the Borg.
Jason Biggs
2024-03-08 15:54:13 +0000 UTCDarin addressed what I said in my comment, so I removed it.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-03-08 15:39:40 +0000 UTC1) My suspicion about the non reaction to Q appearing was a directing decision because filming a believable and well timed group reaction to the sudden appearance of an actor who is standing there the whole time was giving them difficulty. 2) The second Borg drone didnt take the dead one. He grabbed a few pieces and the rest disintegrated.
Julie Carter
2024-03-08 15:38:56 +0000 UTCYea this episode was kind of where TNG 'clicked' fully into place and it's very much uphill from here. It has now become the show that we all loved and almost all the, I guess 'experimental' fiddling is over with, the people making the show have a vision of what they want it to be and they get very cohesive for the next five seasons. Buckle up.
Angelaina Marie
2024-03-08 15:19:49 +0000 UTCPen Pals is far from the worst of TNG!
Jovet
2024-03-08 15:18:46 +0000 UTCI have to wonder why there are food replicators in Engineering anyway...
Darin Wagner
2024-03-08 15:18:20 +0000 UTC6:16 He was going to his quarters to change his uniform! I'm kinda dumbfounded that you didn't pick that up in real time.
Jovet
2024-03-08 15:15:07 +0000 UTC(correction) "one OF several"
Darin Wagner
2024-03-08 15:11:56 +0000 UTCNot really. Just hitting home that it is one several very important episodes for the rest of the franchise.
Darin Wagner
2024-03-08 15:10:56 +0000 UTC0:55 For the record, guys, John de Lancie is pronounced "djŏn dŭ LĂN-sē" or "lan-see" with two syllables, rhymes with "Nancy".
Jovet
2024-03-08 15:08:35 +0000 UTCYeah I’m pretty sure we’ve been hearing about it since TOS tbh, but thank you Sinoc for being careful
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-03-08 15:03:54 +0000 UTCKinda spoilery, though.
Jovet
2024-03-08 15:01:11 +0000 UTCIn this case i'm aware that they know the finale is garbage. They've been told repeatedly.
Steven Johnson
2024-03-08 14:54:34 +0000 UTCInteresting that the series that thought the Ferengi would be a serious adversary managed to create one of Trek’s most iconic and deadly adversaries. You still have to wonder if Kirk would have just talked the Borg into blowing themselves up ha!
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-03-08 14:53:31 +0000 UTCWould be careful about presuming what they do/don't know. If in doubt, leave it out ☺️
SinocTheHodgeheg
2024-03-08 14:49:19 +0000 UTCSo, one thing about the name "Borg" you guys made the connection to Cy- Borg. That's clever, but its actually a Swedish term, meaning "castle" or "fortress." Their ship is a literal invincible/regenerative fortress. As has been said previously, Gene didn't really want to bring back Klingons or Romulans, and Worf was a late addition to the roster. It wasn't until late into S1 that they started bringing in the classical aliens (Klingons and Romulans.). Their first attempt at a new villain for the TNG cast did not land. The problem for the writers going forward, with The Borg, is... I mean its not a spoiler, you saw what happened. The Borg are such a tough villain. It's much harder to do something with that. The Romulans and the Klingons are to varying degrees on equal footing with our crew, so it becomes a game of wits, but with The Borg, they're basically unstoppable. They're like Mr. X from Resident Evil 2, or a horde of Terminators. I know you guys are pretty much aware that Season 2 has a less-than-amazing finale, and I don't think its a spoiler to say, this episode is one of the reasons for that. They spent a lot of money here for all new visual effects, models, and even without that you still have a lot of Q effects, complicated camera work, and score. On the subject of score. I don't know what the budget was like on TNG, but I do know that with TOS they had budget for eight new scores a season. Everything else was stock. Episodes like This Side of Paradise and The Doomsday Machine got original scores, but then that music would get reused in episodes like Shore Leave or Journey to Babel.
Steven Johnson
2024-03-08 14:39:43 +0000 UTCThis was one of those episodes in Season 2 that laid the ground work for not just the rest of TNG, but two other Star Trek shows you have yet to watch.
Darin Wagner
2024-03-08 14:23:01 +0000 UTCSeason 2 isn't "bad." It's uneven. It has some of the best episodes of the entire series - this one, Measure of a Man, maybe one more coming up. It also has some of the worst episodes of the series, like Pen Pals, and again, maybe one more coming up. But this was a fantastic episode both in itself, and in introducing a new nemesis to the Star Trek universe.
Turtleboy
2024-03-08 14:20:27 +0000 UTClol funny how your description of a show following a low level character up to captain describes a show you’ll see eventually maybe lol. Depends on how far you are willing to go.
Jason Biggs
2024-03-08 13:29:15 +0000 UTC
