PATRON TAKES - Star Trek TNG S2E12
Added 2024-02-19 12:43:06 +0000 UTCComment on this post your ‘takes’ on this episode and we will read a few in our discussion!
NO SPOILERS - If it is information regarding anything THAT DOES OR DOES NOT HAPPEN after this episode, don't include it in your comment.
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- A brief review (2-3 sentences) of why you like/dislike the episode
- A question for us about the episode
- A prediction of how you think we will react to a certain aspect of the episode
- A fun fact about the episode
We are watching this episode Monday, so we won’t be reading the comments on this until then. If you have questions shoot us a message!
Comments
Maybe he did figure it out. But if he manages to leave and walk out what could would it have done him. He wouldn't have had a 24th century ship to beam him away. He would have to come back in or walk into the storm and die.
Greg Quinn
2024-02-22 18:20:49 +0000 UTCIn fairness...most casinos don't have poker because it has have a element of skill they don't want to work with.
Greg Quinn
2024-02-22 18:18:40 +0000 UTCIn-lieu of another holodeck ep you get a magic planet who can do basically the same thing. This is a prison of sorts and the team really have to work hard to find a way to end the story. Really a useless ep. because of your affinity for TOS and the holodeck I am going to wager a guess you will like this ep. But also think you will put it in the not bad but not a favorite.
Lt Dan I scream
2024-02-21 15:57:23 +0000 UTCI loved this one. It was plain old fun. It didn’t drag. Had some good worf humor. I’ll rewatch this, especially when I want to just have fun and not ponder the universe.
Crankygrandma
2024-02-21 13:16:51 +0000 UTCBaby needs a new pair of shoes!
Lindsey
2024-02-21 08:02:08 +0000 UTCYou know, I've always wondered about that, but never bothered to look in to it or think about it too hard.
Jovet
2024-02-21 04:55:51 +0000 UTCI think he looked pretty good for being dead 280 years. There should have been nothing left! Maybe some bone.
Jovet
2024-02-21 04:50:40 +0000 UTCI'm sure he did read it, at least once.
Jovet
2024-02-21 04:49:43 +0000 UTCHe actually has his back turned and is looking in a closet as he says it...so kinda easy to miss. Lol
Greg Quinn
2024-02-21 02:40:21 +0000 UTCLol indeed. Good stuff. . Data clearly having fun...which at this point in his character's development/nature makes no sense but still worth it if you ask me.
Greg Quinn
2024-02-21 02:34:07 +0000 UTCBring out the pain sticks
SinocTheHodgeheg
2024-02-20 23:39:06 +0000 UTCThe most interesting part of this episode is the flag on the debrie and uniform. 52 stars. Data was entertaning too. The episode is below average for the show. I predict that you will judge this episode as middling
Bradley Shafer
2024-02-20 22:01:01 +0000 UTCI don't remember much about this episode, just that it was kind of bizarre and interesting, but overall not much meat on the bone. I think alluding to TOS episodes and Twilight Zone is probably accurate. Take Spectre of the Gun, Shore Leave, and Paradise Syndrome, throw in some TZ, and mix well. This is what you get.
Collin Freeman
2024-02-20 21:36:03 +0000 UTCIndeed. You can check out anytime you want, but you can never leave.
Collin Freeman
2024-02-20 21:29:00 +0000 UTCHave not seen this one for 25 years or so. Then I considered it as quite boring. But I learned by rewatching TNG with Josh and Alex that I see many things differently now. I am curious.
Sam Langanke
2024-02-20 17:39:12 +0000 UTCYes.
John M.
2024-02-20 16:03:06 +0000 UTCWhat's Data wrong about? When he told the gal that the odds say stand pat? Or?
Jovet
2024-02-20 15:05:33 +0000 UTCI loved the correcting of the dice for some reason.
Miah1138
2024-02-20 14:09:13 +0000 UTCI have the same Blu-ray set that they do, and at least the episode titles are not printed on the discs. They are printed on the DVDs for the DS9 and Voyager sets I just bought, which are not available on Blu-ray, so if they have those same discs they just can't look at them when they put them in the player. Maybe they can have someone else put them in the player for them.
KatWithAttitude
2024-02-20 12:34:21 +0000 UTCHe also phasers the walls! Not that it does much but.^^
DataDroid
2024-02-20 12:21:10 +0000 UTCPrediction: You’ll dig the TOS vibes. Question: Fermat’s Last Theorem aside, what guess about the future in Star Trek have you found the most dated? Trivia: Data is wrong about the blackjack hand. 5-word review: Loved it as a teen.
John M.
2024-02-20 12:05:07 +0000 UTCOh yeah - totally agree. I can remember the title for the episode I think is the absolute worst no problem! I generally don't think most episodes people complain about are really as bad as people think, at least in my opinion. But the one I hate the most is.. I think the one most people also hate. But hey, there were a lot of TOS episodes I really liked that I remember being really surprised by a lot of people hating when I read the comments for their reactions. 🤷🏻♀️ I have a feeling that might happen a few times in this series as well.
Lady Beyond The Wall
2024-02-20 12:03:11 +0000 UTCLOL!
DataDroid
2024-02-20 10:43:39 +0000 UTCThis is why it's pretty easy to fall into "future spoiler" territory in these comment sections. They don't even WANT to know the episode titles before they're flashed on the screen... that means nothing about future episodes or productions should be talked about. It's basically 1989 for them, and they don't want to know what comes (because it hasn't aired yet!)
Jovet
2024-02-20 09:45:45 +0000 UTCThe funny thing for me is I've never noticed him saying this before! I'll be looking for it when I rewatch with their reaction... And I disagree about Worf not doing much. He's does all sorts of things! He looks in the closets, in the drawers, he answers the phone... even though Riker was closest...
Jovet
2024-02-20 09:43:04 +0000 UTCThat means it can't be THAT bad! I always remember the BAD ones. (The boys haven't seen a really bad one yet, and I believe we'll have to wait a few more seasons.) ((The one everyone but me complains about being bad, I don't think is that bad. It is what it is.))
Jovet
2024-02-20 09:42:27 +0000 UTCYou just /know/ that he read that line in that book! haha
Jovet
2024-02-20 09:36:02 +0000 UTCYeah, your right. 👍
Shannon Mullins
2024-02-20 09:18:31 +0000 UTCMy favorite Ron Jones theme comes in a later episode, I hope I remember to point it out then
DataDroid
2024-02-20 08:39:14 +0000 UTCOh my gosh I love cinnamon so much! But not every day for 30+ years.
DataDroid
2024-02-20 08:37:40 +0000 UTCYes, that's the point, so they can remain ignorant of the episode titles before they react to the show. More important for some episodes than others. It's easy enough to google, STTNG S2e12. Bang, "The Royale." Takes all of 3 seconds.
Nolan
2024-02-20 07:21:08 +0000 UTCTo fully maintain the element of surprise, they decided against looking at titles before watching episodes. I believe it to be a wise decision.
Northern Loon
2024-02-20 07:16:37 +0000 UTCNot showing the episode title is ignorant.
Shannon Mullins
2024-02-20 06:57:30 +0000 UTCNo, this wasn't one of the 14 or so Phase 2 stories. There is a list online of P2 script ideas (very brief summaries). Most of them don't sound too promising.
Numinous2019
2024-02-20 05:20:17 +0000 UTCMichael Dorn doesn't have a ton to do as Worf here. But the scene where Riker says something like "poor devil died in bed" and Worf says "what a terrible way to die" I always found to be a nice little reminder of Worf's value system.
Greg Quinn
2024-02-20 03:59:00 +0000 UTCI've watched TNG in its entirety probably 20 times and yet somehow I just always forget this episode even exists. 🤷🏻♀️
Lady Beyond The Wall
2024-02-20 02:08:38 +0000 UTCI found this one pretty boring when it first came out. I've rewatched it a handful of times since and liked it a bit more but it's nothing special and definitely in my bottom third of season 2 episodes.
NivekTheIncorrigible
2024-02-19 23:46:32 +0000 UTCOh god! Not this one!
Silk
2024-02-19 23:28:09 +0000 UTCYes, i have tried both the fake sticks that smell ghastly, and the actual ceylon cinnamon, both are no go. Though, surprisingly, i have no problem with nutmeg even though it has a similar profile.
Connor Fallon
2024-02-19 23:14:37 +0000 UTC"Baby needs a new pair of shoes!"
Jovet
2024-02-19 22:41:52 +0000 UTC@Connor Fallon I have a friend who also can't stand cinnamon. I've always meant to ask him but I'll ask you: have you tried real cinnamon? Not the "fake" stuff we usually see around.
Jovet
2024-02-19 22:41:04 +0000 UTCHit me!!
Jovet
2024-02-19 22:38:35 +0000 UTCI actually like this episode. Data seems a bit incongruent in how he suddenly seems to be acting "cool" and having "fun" while loading up the dice and cheating. Still I enjoy it.
Greg Quinn
2024-02-19 22:28:22 +0000 UTCFoodwise, i think my personal hell would be like cinnamon everything you know: french toast, cinnamon rolls, streusel and bread puddings. They are often on breakfast buffets, and man i hate cinnamon.
Connor Fallon
2024-02-19 22:23:10 +0000 UTCWelcome to the rollercoaster boys: good ep, bad ep, good ep, bad ep. I bet that moment with the single revolving door in the black had you fearing another "The Empath" type episode.
Nolan
2024-02-19 22:19:03 +0000 UTCMickey D! He's going to invent the hamburger bell boy!!
Jovet
2024-02-19 22:18:26 +0000 UTCWell, he did describe his own personal "hell" ... but he also described no malice towards his alien keepers.
Jovet
2024-02-19 22:14:14 +0000 UTCHe's just getting right down to 'bidness'!
DataDroid
2024-02-19 20:32:39 +0000 UTC"Baby needs a new pair of shoes!" Data buying into this 'universe' is so funny.
DataDroid
2024-02-19 20:27:55 +0000 UTCThis has always been a favorite of mine. Mickey D's line. "No woman's worth dying for, killing for. not dying for" is perhaps the best line in the season.
Mark Chrisco
2024-02-19 20:27:22 +0000 UTCThe Royale, a bad holodeck episode without a holodeck
Gregory
2024-02-19 19:59:41 +0000 UTC“The Royale” or “Could be worse. Could have been reading Fifty Shades.”
Adam Reid
2024-02-19 19:04:19 +0000 UTCI remember finding the episode unremarkable when it first aired. My second viewing has done nothing to change that opinion.
Nick Sauer
2024-02-19 18:15:49 +0000 UTCI actually wondered that myself when I rewatched the episode yesterday! xD I figured the food might be what was described in the book and I hope for the guy it had some variety
DataDroid
2024-02-19 17:27:09 +0000 UTCI know this one is often forgotten by fans, and I always tend to remember it as a bit meh, but then every time I rewatch it I find so much to enjoy in it. Love the TOS vibe of it - the entire set-up is 100% TOS, and yet it still works here. Riker is on fine form, and Data... Well, as ever, give Brent Spiner something to do with a touch of comedy in it, and he will shine. Also, the visual of the revolving door in the middle of a void is pretty brilliant. Yeah, you can't honestly dislike this one.
Andy Frankham-Allen
2024-02-19 17:10:23 +0000 UTCJust a fun, light episode! It also feels comfortable somehow, because it's got a couple of guest stars who were TV character actor staples of this late '80s-early '90s era. The desk clerk and the Texas gambler were in EVERYTHING back then.
Joe Concepts
2024-02-19 16:54:43 +0000 UTCThe first time I saw this episode I didn't like it, but over the years it has grown on me. I enjoy it very much now.
Dan Krantz
2024-02-19 16:50:41 +0000 UTCTo me this feels very much like a TOS episode, so I assume it was one of those repurposed scripts of Phase II. However as old school as it is, sometimes it can be fun to watch. It's certainly one of the weakest episodes of the show, but it has enough amusing moments to be a stupid little fun episode. My prediction: You'll have a couple laughs but end up judging the episode as one of those 'forgettable ones'.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-02-19 16:34:38 +0000 UTCThis is one episode that I don’t know how other people feel about it but I personally love it! The idea of Riker, Data, and Worf essentially stuck in a cheap poorly written novel is the type of story I loved about TNG and it’s always on my go to list when rewatching TNG. The scene when Picard starts reading the novel with the extremely cliched “Dark and Stormy Night” with Troi saying I might get better is my favorite.
Eric Bundy
2024-02-19 16:32:06 +0000 UTCStory really goes nowhere.....slowly. Maybe it was fun for Frakes, Spiner and Dorn to film. Something needed to be added about half-way through to either justify the set-up, or to make the episode amount to more than a bit of a diversion/oddity.
Numinous2019
2024-02-19 16:22:11 +0000 UTCI always thought the set up to this episode was so effective. Creepy and mysterious, like a good twilight zone hook. In my memories this episode doesn't exist past the reveal of the twist.
kevin coleman
2024-02-19 16:15:04 +0000 UTCAndrew Wiles: "Fermat's Last Theorem won't be proved for another 800 years, Picard? Alright, bet." (Wiles proved this theorem 6 years after the episode aired in 1995)
Elway Simpson
2024-02-19 15:56:48 +0000 UTCTNG's attempt at "A Piece of the Action". It doesn't hit as well and only Data really starts to buy a little into the parts they were playing. A good enough episode that could have been so much better.
Nerd's Gold
2024-02-19 15:56:04 +0000 UTCI know I'm in the minority that enjoys what this episode for what it is. For better or worse, it feels almost TOS like to me.
Ca$hWednesday
2024-02-19 15:54:59 +0000 UTCIt is not that this is a bad episode. No, this episode is not bad, it is just about a really bad book.
Thicketdweller
2024-02-19 15:44:27 +0000 UTCI predict you both liking the episode, mostly for little scenes and character touches. The only problem with this is that in some ways it is the same story as Contagion and TOS's The Paradise Syndrome. But I enjoyed this much more on rewatch. I remember thinking "This stinks!" But on rewatch I just enjoyed it for what it was.
Michael Schwarz
2024-02-19 15:37:11 +0000 UTCDefinitely not a “Measure of a Man” quality, but it’s such a clever little premise. Almost meta as it’s an episode about a book filled with clichés, that is itself filled with Trek clichés (a small patch of “earth like conditions on an uninhabited planet. A 20th century scenario recreation. An away team trapped and unable to beam out. The NASA craft, etc.). Enjoyable, but never going to make a top 10 list lol.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-02-19 15:25:04 +0000 UTCOk so we are stuck forever in a casino, do you think the buffet stays the same or do you think they rotate the selection of food? Be like “I really want to leave this casino, but not tomorrow, tomorrow is the prime rib dinner..”
Connor Fallon
2024-02-19 15:21:18 +0000 UTCThis episode feels like an old 1960s Trek episode. Some fans love this episode, and some hate this one. It was something different and memorable without using the holodeck, so I kind of liked it.
Chtphr Rrr
2024-02-19 15:07:27 +0000 UTCThis episode suffers some unfortunate scientific errors and goofs. Geordi announces its temperature is −291 °C... but that's below absolute zero! Picard talks about Fermat's Last theorem, still unsolved in the 24th century. But it was solved for us in 1995, after this episode was written. The patch on the astronaut suit is an Apollo patch, and in the original broadcast it had their names on it instead. Tracy Tormé originally wrote this but it was extensively edited after his submission. Who knows where these errors crept in. (I'd bet it wasn't him. RIP Mr. Tracy Tormé)
Jovet
2024-02-19 15:06:57 +0000 UTCHey another 20th Century humans Episode, except they are not human. The only thing I liked about this one is Data getting into the the Dice throwing and the Guy with the Hat. That's about all I liked when it aired Originally....the Royale story was just too slow and a bit boring. I can't really see you guys liking this anymore than the last Ep. That's it! 😀🤟 I forgot the Worf Line..."What a terrible way to die!"
Duane Chancey
2024-02-19 14:49:53 +0000 UTCDo TNG writers not know what "advanced decomposition" is? There wasn't much left!
JGoss
2024-02-19 14:46:26 +0000 UTCThe Royale with a bit of cheese.
Shatner's Cigarette
2024-02-19 14:42:49 +0000 UTCAlthough he did figure out that the aliens built this world for him based on the novel so should have had at least some motivation to read it to the end, even if only out of boredom. Though the question is would he have been able to escape since he was on his own and the book required three investors
DataDroid
2024-02-19 14:34:54 +0000 UTCThis is one of my favorite episodes of all time! A celebration of bad paperback/pulp fiction, the Twilight Zone and Brent Spiner's charm all in one! Great performances by the main guest star. More of that awesome 80s "sexism" that is sorely lacking in today's television and one teeny-tiny moment with Worf that made me chuckle the first time I saw this gem of an episode.
Darin Wagner
2024-02-19 14:33:41 +0000 UTCThe episode reminds me a little bit of the TOS episode A Piece of the Action where a whole society is built after a book. This is scaled down dramatically but still ... perhaps there are some aliens out there who collect books from Earth and then built worlds out of it for Humans to live in
DataDroid
2024-02-19 14:29:53 +0000 UTCIf the musical score seems more noticeable and enjoyable than usual, that's because the TNG staff thought this was a bad episode and for once allowed composer Ron Jones to do anything he wanted to make it work. Jones and Rick Berman were frequently in conflict because Berman wanted music less distinctive and emotional than Jones generally provided. I've always liked this episode very much, and I think Jones' score is one of the major reasons the final product is so good.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-02-19 14:23:17 +0000 UTCPitch meeting went something like this: "We are running out of money this season, already did a few bottle shows, how about a holodeck episode? Rent existing sets and costumes for a period piece based on some public domain book." "We did a couple those too!" "I know... we'll do a holodeck episode and NOT MAKE IT ON THE HOLODECK!" "GENIUS!"
Mike Rogers
2024-02-19 14:22:24 +0000 UTCPreposterous. The best elements of this immature twaddle are the characters in the casino. Data playing dumb with “room service”, “card counter” etc is cringy; the aliens read the same book and understood it.
Smear Campaign
2024-02-19 14:20:06 +0000 UTCFeels like The Twilight Zone to me with a Star Trek wrap-around. It’s a bit daft but enjoyable.
Paul Rymer
2024-02-19 14:19:29 +0000 UTCMadeleine L'Engle impishly used it as the opening line of her classic children's novel "A Wrinkle in Time."
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-02-19 14:17:49 +0000 UTCThat's one of my favorite moments in the entire franchise, up there with Gillian slapping her boss in Voyage Home. Worf's comment has shaped my whole outlook on life! :-)
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-02-19 14:16:00 +0000 UTCMaybe they downloaded the appearances of humans from the spacecraft's data banks, and randomly assigned them to the crowd. Those could be the faces of the NASA staff.
tyranusfan
2024-02-19 14:12:17 +0000 UTCI’ve always liked this one. The hotel setting is cool, and revolving door in the middle of a storm adds a surreal air to the story. I used to wonder why the astronaut never figured out how to escape, but then I realized it’s because he never finished reading the terribly written novel.
tyranusfan
2024-02-19 14:10:33 +0000 UTC{Holds hand up} "I call stupid!"
StonyD
2024-02-19 13:59:09 +0000 UTCOh those leftover Season One scripts....still so terrible. You would think they would at least capitalize on Data having "learned" Poker. They have already shown he can be beaten that way, so that could have added some actual tension or stakes to the ending. The fantasy-ability to toss dice at exactly the right speed, angle, ambient air control, etc. to get the right land every single time.....yeah, that whole thing rolled snake-eyes in my opinion. Next episode please!
StonyD
2024-02-19 13:58:20 +0000 UTCYep! That's this episode! Nothing heavy, just relax and let it play out.
Jovet
2024-02-19 13:57:42 +0000 UTCI think you guys will say this one is alright. Not great, not terrible. You'll either like or hate the Texan guy who's trying to pick up that girl. Might need lots of Fireball in this one!
Jovet
2024-02-19 13:56:28 +0000 UTCI enjoy this episode, it's corny and predictable, but it's also kinda fun watching Data do his thing. It's "funny" watching him "fix" the dice. I wonder where the aliens got the inspiration for the appearances of all the different people in the casino.
Jovet
2024-02-19 13:55:42 +0000 UTCMy only problem with this episode is, when they try to leave through the revolving door, they don't walk out and back in simultaneously—there's a time gap while they very obviously go around the outside of the door.
Jovet
2024-02-19 13:54:24 +0000 UTCI actually like it more now than on first viewing. I found it pretty predictable on first viewing.
Jovet
2024-02-19 13:53:07 +0000 UTCFavorite moment: "He died in his sleep." Worf, in the background "What a terrible way to die." It's a small thing, but it just is so Worf. Dying peacefully in your sleep. something most human beings hope for, is the most unappealing way for a Klingon to go. Also, love the spinny doors. It's such a surreal image.
Steven Johnson
2024-02-19 13:44:20 +0000 UTCThat reminds me…. If memory serves, the incident where Data “corrects” the loaded dice was copied directly from a scene in Roddenberry’s “The Questor Tapes.”
James H
2024-02-19 13:41:38 +0000 UTC“It was a dark and stormy night” is of course the cliché beginning for all bad stories, first used in Edward Bulwer-Lytton’s 1830 novel “Paul Clifford” and often employed by Snoopy at his typewriter.
James H
2024-02-19 13:36:43 +0000 UTCEvery once in a while Star Trek does a silly episode that is just meant to be fun (eg. "Shore Leave"). If you can switch your brain off and watch it for what it is, you'll enjoy it. If not, you'll think it's stupid.
Regan
2024-02-19 13:34:47 +0000 UTCTo me, this is the average season 2 episode: there’s a spark or a good concept that utterly fails to materialize to anything interesting. The definition of 5/10. The meta aspect of it being based on a crummy novel is kind of funny though.
EnigmaticPenguin
2024-02-19 13:28:20 +0000 UTCWelcome to the Hotel California..
TalynStarburst
2024-02-19 13:26:50 +0000 UTCThis episode gets a bad rep but I think it’s one of the highlights of S2. Cheesier than a Quattro Formaggi pizza with a cheese stuffed crust. It’s worth it for the “Data plays craps” scene alone. “Baby needs a new pair of shoes”
Jon1701
2024-02-19 13:09:27 +0000 UTCI really enjoy this one. A bit goofy, but still fun. I'm impressed that the wreckage they first beam aboard actually had a flag painted with 52 stars, just like the dialog said. Well done, prop guys!
Alexander McKechnie
2024-02-19 13:08:41 +0000 UTCFavorite moment has to be Worf muttering "What a terrible way to die" when Riker mentions the guy died in his sleep.
THE LORE!!!
2024-02-19 13:03:56 +0000 UTCThis one is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me. Is it "good"? Maybe not. Is it effectively a holodeck episode without the holodeck? Sure. Is it a giant, stinky wedge of cheese? Yup! I don't care, it's fun. Enjoy!
Avaria
2024-02-19 12:55:08 +0000 UTCI think that idea of reliving the same thing over and and again was the genesis of the episode and then rewrites took it a little away from that
Andrew Duffy
2024-02-19 12:53:58 +0000 UTCThis episode is one of those where it's most fun when watching it for the first time. Going back to it once in a while is fine, but beyond that it doesn't offer that much (except Data bringing on those wrist flicks when tossing the dice!). I like it for what it is.
DataDroid
2024-02-19 12:52:08 +0000 UTCFor me this one definitely has the flavor of a TOS episode with sort of some of the same elements as “A Piece of the Action” but not nearly as much fun, and a bit of “The Twilight Zone” thrown in. Not quite the worst but definitely not close to the best. I have it ranked as “At Least It's Only 45ish Minutes”. The only thing that keeps it out of the “No. Just...No”. category for me is thinking about the poor guy who had to relive that terrible novel over and over again with no way out except for death. The idea of that reality is pretty haunting.
KatWithAttitude
2024-02-19 12:50:16 +0000 UTC
