PATRON TAKES - Star Trek TNG - Season 2 Episode 6
Added 2024-01-29 02:38:29 +0000 UTCComment on this post your ‘takes’ on this episode and we will read a few in our discussion!
NO SPOILERS - If it is information regarding anything THAT DOES OR DOES NOT HAPPEN after this episode, don't include it in your comment.
If you want your take to be read in the video, comment ONE of the following:
- A brief review (2-3 sentences) of why you like/dislike the episode
- A question for us about the episode
- A prediction of how you think we will react to a certain aspect of the episode
- A fun fact about the episode
We are watching this episode Monday, so we won’t be reading the comments on this until then. If you have questions shoot us a message!
Comments
he voiced the character Ignatius Cheese in Escape From Monkey Island!
Ee'char
2024-02-16 16:19:18 +0000 UTCJeepers Creepers , Where’d you get those eyes
Thicketdweller
2024-02-01 15:57:11 +0000 UTCJust don't go by any episodes aired on BBC America. They butcher these episodes. One of the really great ones from this season has the second to last scene cut in half and the very last scene completely removed. Terrible.
Joe Concepts
2024-02-01 01:45:00 +0000 UTCI forgot the Fun Fact: I noticed something about this Ep. that I never recognized before. The actor William Morgan Sheppard is a main Character in a PC Game I used to play from 1994 I think. It was Called Zork Nemesis and was one of the first to use Video Cut Scenes and in other parts of a game. 😀🖖
Duane Chancey
2024-01-31 20:08:34 +0000 UTCWell this one you guys may or may not like depends on how you feel about Dr. Graves! He acts more like he is from this century, also another Vulcan but with a lot more lines! 😀🖖
Duane Chancey
2024-01-31 20:01:47 +0000 UTCIan, pop on the Discord and we can talk spoilers all we like.
JD Nevesytrof
2024-01-30 21:51:26 +0000 UTCI'm struggling to think who that would be! Is it from a different Star Trek series? I was thinking Kirstie Alley as Savak was pretty hot, but Star Trek II isn't spoiler territory.
Ian Westcott
2024-01-30 20:12:34 +0000 UTCI think it's that Data was popular among fans, Spiner is a good actor, and they wanted to show him off. And also, the "reprogrammed android" is a something of a classic trope in sci-fi.
Ian Westcott
2024-01-30 20:10:44 +0000 UTCI don't think it's a spoiler to say that sometimes guest actors come back to play other roles as other races from time to time, as long as there is no information given about role and race.
Ian Westcott
2024-01-30 20:09:24 +0000 UTCNimoy said that he developed depression from playing Spock and having to contain his emotions so much on set. I wonder if episodes like this were encouraged so that Spiner could get some relief from performing in a similar way as Data?
Numinous2019
2024-01-30 19:42:03 +0000 UTCI just re-checked the S2 episode list. Josh & Alex will be watching 2 of the worst episodes back to back. The kind of episodes that beg the question: What were they thinking?
Numinous2019
2024-01-30 10:59:13 +0000 UTCSo you do not think it's a fine, full, dignified beard, one which commands respect and projects thoughtfulness and dignity and make him appear more intellectual when stroked thusly.^^
DataDroid
2024-01-30 06:31:24 +0000 UTCSpoilery territory. To truly be spoiler free, we need to pretend that no further episodes of the show have aired yet and that none of us know what is going to happen, who is going to appear, or which characters or actors will or will not reappear.
Jovet
2024-01-30 05:17:19 +0000 UTCI still say there are worse episodes coming! Some really dumb plot ideas. I think this one isn't the dumbest, but it's near the bottom of my episode list. Graves himself is just cliché and boring.
Jovet
2024-01-30 05:16:18 +0000 UTCTruth be told, geniuses are typically very horny people. There's a definite correlation with high IQ and sexual lust/appetite.
Jovet
2024-01-30 05:14:52 +0000 UTCIt's funny you mention that, I see H&I is just a bit ahead of the guys here. That tickled me the other day.
Jovet
2024-01-30 05:13:31 +0000 UTC::very grave River Song voice:: Spoilers!...
Jovet
2024-01-30 05:09:26 +0000 UTCI thought his beard looked ridiculous. (Unlike Riva's!)
Jovet
2024-01-30 05:06:47 +0000 UTCAnother great job by Brent Spiner, again playing... Data who is not Data. A different type of performance from when he did something similar with Lore. Morgan Sheppard was only in a small part of the episode, but he gave Spiner so much to incorporate! I really appreciate that Ira Graves was not inherently evil or violent, just merely a "creep," and eventually saw that he could no longer control himself and voluntarily gave up. No one forced him out of Data. He simply came to realize this was a life he wouldn't really be able to live. That was a nice touch.
Ian Westcott
2024-01-30 04:44:22 +0000 UTCHaha, my introduction to Mel Torme as well!
Ian Westcott
2024-01-30 04:41:14 +0000 UTCAbsolutely fantastic guest stars! Susie Plackson plays different characters of different races (many guest stars do this!) in her guest appearances on TNG, and she kills it every time.
Ian Westcott
2024-01-30 04:40:53 +0000 UTCSame.
tyranusfan
2024-01-30 02:44:41 +0000 UTClike Leonard Nimoy he's also the narrater in the Civilization pc games
Narnman
2024-01-30 02:35:04 +0000 UTCNo disrespect to Mel Torme but I think the only reason I know about him is I watched Night Court as a kid...and I'm about 15 years older than these guys.....
Greg Quinn
2024-01-30 01:42:06 +0000 UTCOh, right I totally forgot about her:-)
Sebastian_Frodo
2024-01-30 00:46:00 +0000 UTCOMG: Jovet, you just hit on something I never thought of: your comment that Graves is "just an even-more-spoiled form of Lore" ..... could it be that Graves, as one of Soong's [contemporaries], had enough influence over how Soong crafted Lore that it was what led to Lore's deactivation when he went off the deep end, as it were? Hmm...........
Rhett Coates
2024-01-30 00:31:40 +0000 UTCYes, but they have not yet seen any future episodes, so it's NOT o.k. to post about that kind of thing. Let's let them truly experience the ENJOYMENT of seeing actors in their roles as they encounter them from the viewing of new stories. Besides, there's over a thousand hours of Star Trek TV episodes now for them to see, and even more in development - and that doesn't count the rest of the (as of Jan. 2024) thirteen movies!
Rhett Coates
2024-01-30 00:27:42 +0000 UTCThat kind of film trick was used in TOS's second pilot, "Where No Man Has Gone Before" when Gary Mitchell, in the FIRST scene after the opening theme song, runs into the turbo lift to join Kirk and Spock who are already inside the car. The scene shows a crane shot [above the ceiling grating] camera angle as Gary runs in the opened door, then cuts to a different angle inside the Lift. As the camera angle changes at that point, to show him joining Kirk and Spock, we see the bulkhead of a CORRIDOR WALL just as the door closes. Their conversation is about the 3-D chess game, then as the lift slows (the lights showing fast movement of the car), the door opens and -- WITHOUT A CUT -- they step out onto the bridge [set]. It would later be realized they just filmed the entire scene from the bridge set, but when Gary first enters, a false backdrop is just outside the door to hide it's on the bridge, and is removed as they carry on the conversation in the Lift. The backdrop is simply pulled away during their conversation inside the Lift so when it opens, we're "on the bridge" when before we were Below Decks. COOL, HUH?? And, cheap, too: it would have cost Desilu only the regular day-pay for a stage-hand.
Rhett Coates
2024-01-30 00:20:27 +0000 UTCCareful, Regan.................................................
Rhett Coates
2024-01-30 00:14:17 +0000 UTCIt could be, if the actor's character in a future story were revealed before Josh and Alex had a chance to see it.
Rhett Coates
2024-01-30 00:13:28 +0000 UTCTechnically the Vulcan Starfleet academy candidate in Coming of Age had a few lines, but admittedly it wasn't much.
Collin Freeman
2024-01-29 21:57:01 +0000 UTCIndeed. In a skin tight outfit.
Monty Crawford
2024-01-29 21:54:05 +0000 UTCI would say that Mel Torme's son wrote this episode, but you probably don't know who that is.
Turtleboy
2024-01-29 18:36:32 +0000 UTCThe actress who plays the Vulcan, Dr. Lieutenant is great. I hope we see her again in the show.
Just another Red Shirt
2024-01-29 18:02:18 +0000 UTCThey really did everything to make him unlikable
DataDroid
2024-01-29 17:33:00 +0000 UTCI edited my original post to make it less spoilery.
Timothy Hennon
2024-01-29 17:13:52 +0000 UTCThis is for some reason by far my least favorite episode of TNG and I haven't watched it in ages. The old guy creeps me out so much and makes me feel so uncomfortable. While Brent Spiner's performance is great as always, I just hate the character he plays too much to enjoy this.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-01-29 12:35:43 +0000 UTCProbably the best episode since “Elementary Dear Data” but this is the third episode in row where the guest star almost immediately starts flirting with a female member of the crew. This season is a lot hornier than I remember.
Matthew McKinnon-Gray
2024-01-29 12:21:19 +0000 UTCNow it makes sense!
James H
2024-01-29 10:36:24 +0000 UTCIt was funny because it was so cringy! :D
DataDroid
2024-01-29 09:28:07 +0000 UTCAh, Dr Selar. She's great. Suzie Plakson is one of those actors who owns every scene they're in. The story itself is interesting, although a tad TOS,but Spiner runs with it and convinces as Graves in Data's body. His eulogy is cringy and hysterical at the same time. (We're getting a lot of Data this first half of the season, eh?)
Andy Frankham-Allen
2024-01-29 09:12:11 +0000 UTCThe first time we see a Vulcan have a speaking role in this show, creates hope for the future:-)
Sebastian_Frodo
2024-01-29 07:59:55 +0000 UTCI never really liked this episode before and so I haven't watched it in a very long time. Since it was on H&I just a couple of nights ago, I thought what the heck, I'll watch it again. It's not nearly as bad as I remembered. Actually it's a lot better than I remembered.
Dan Krantz
2024-01-29 07:36:42 +0000 UTCI think you'll like this one. The show is still not up to it's future offerings but you can see that things were starting to come together.
Mike Rogers
2024-01-29 07:27:40 +0000 UTCI try to use a common sense approach to spoilers, i.e. no plot points, future character info, or cast changes. That said, at the end of the day it is a 30 + year old show, with some things already in pop culture. I mean I don’t think the guys are wondering what Gene Roddenberry is up to nowadays..
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-01-29 07:14:26 +0000 UTCDid the poster delete or edit it? Because the boys don't read these Patron Takes until after they watch the episodes (on Mondays) and won't have seen it yet.
Regan
2024-01-29 07:11:47 +0000 UTCPoll idea: Who would you date- Dr Selar, or the other character that Suzy Plakson plays in TNG?
Regan
2024-01-29 07:06:20 +0000 UTCNot many planets visited by the Enterprise that have a distinctive ring system.
Jovet
2024-01-29 06:02:37 +0000 UTCThis episode is cool in that it features W. Morgan Sheppard as Ira Graves who is a prolific sci-fi actor (Seaquest DSV, Babylon 5, Quantum Leap, & Doctor Who) as well as a bunch of non sci-fi stuff. It also features Suzie Plakson as Dr. Selar showing that the Enterprise has more than one doctor. Overall having Graves transfer his mind to Data was a fun concept, but it’s not one of my favorite episodes.
Eric Bundy
2024-01-29 05:58:45 +0000 UTCHindsight: Kinda shocking none of the bridge crew has slept with or had a prior romantic relationship with anyone on the planet this time.
Jovet
2024-01-29 05:54:54 +0000 UTCData: NOT the best beard of the 24th century! LOL!
Jovet
2024-01-29 05:53:27 +0000 UTCI find it pretty cringy. MUCH funnier stuff coming!!
Jovet
2024-01-29 05:49:08 +0000 UTC[SPOILER REDACTED] is better.
Jovet
2024-01-29 05:47:54 +0000 UTCShe's my fave guest actor on the show by far!
Jovet
2024-01-29 05:46:37 +0000 UTCBy golly, I think you're right! LOL!
Jovet
2024-01-29 05:46:00 +0000 UTCI think he actually says "I might not like it" :)
DataDroid
2024-01-29 05:43:48 +0000 UTCLove Suzie!!
Jovet
2024-01-29 05:40:33 +0000 UTC"I would not come up here, if I were you, captain. You might not like it!" Always makes me laugh.
Jovet
2024-01-29 05:39:15 +0000 UTCDr. Graves is, obviously, the greatest human intellectual bozo of the 24th century.
Jovet
2024-01-29 05:36:30 +0000 UTCI didn't enjoy this one. It was too cliché and predictable for me to enjoy. I think I've only seen it twice—this will be the third time. Props to Spiner's acting, I guess, but I don't find Graves-Data to be enthralling, entertaining, or exciting. He's just an even-more spoiled form of Lore! One of the more boring and uninteresting stories of the entire series that I can think of. And the reaction of Data's shipmates to his changed behavior is pathetic and not in the least plausible.
Jovet
2024-01-29 05:34:52 +0000 UTCA man of exceptional taste.
Steven Johnson
2024-01-29 05:25:45 +0000 UTCFrom memory, Patrick McGoohan was the first choice to play Graves, which is probably why the episode titles match. McGoohan would have been great, but the actor they did cast does a fine job.
Numinous2019
2024-01-29 05:25:11 +0000 UTCHaha! xD
DataDroid
2024-01-29 05:18:32 +0000 UTCSusie Plakson is always a welcome guest star. I'd love to see more of Dr. Selar. Also, always fun to take the reigns off Spiner!
Alexander McKechnie
2024-01-29 05:16:54 +0000 UTCThis episode is otherwise not that notable, but we do get some Suzie Plakson. Love me some Suzie Plakson
Elway Simpson
2024-01-29 05:13:10 +0000 UTCThey're already pretty clear with their "anything THAT DOES OR DOES NOT HAPPEN after this episode" message, there's just no need to mention ANYTHING that has something to do with a future episode. Just pretend no future episodes have aired yet and theirs no information to reveal...
Brendon Waldron
2024-01-29 05:03:34 +0000 UTCW. Morgan Shepard is one of my favorite ST guest actors. He’s a little over the top here, but he pours a lot of personality into a small part. Brent Spiner has another chance to play “not-Data.” He’s fantastic at portraying different characters with the same face, but it’s a little obvious that he’s possessed from the start. Note the subtle visual effect at the beginning, where Pulaski gets on the turbolift in the corridor and exits onto the bridge.
tyranusfan
2024-01-29 05:01:41 +0000 UTCJosh & Alex might need to do a short segment clarifying what is a spoiler. My own view is saying an actor/actress appears again is okay, but providing any details of who they next play or when they next appear is a spoiler.
Numinous2019
2024-01-29 04:54:59 +0000 UTCSomeone already gave a spoiler on that one. The cretin.
Monty Crawford
2024-01-29 04:42:26 +0000 UTCDr. Selar...what did you guys think of her? Would you like to see more of her in the future? If so doing what?
Greg Quinn
2024-01-29 04:40:11 +0000 UTCProbably a 22 year gap between when I saw this episode as a kid and then again as an adult, but I never forgot the "to know him is to love him is to know him" part because it's just weird, man...
Brendon Waldron
2024-01-29 04:31:46 +0000 UTCAhh, Dr. Selar, how intriguing a character. But a weird episode. Least it lets Spiner out of his Data shell a bit.
Nolan
2024-01-29 04:29:15 +0000 UTCThe teaser features a scene of Dr. Pulaski taking the turbolift on a corridor and arriving to the bridge in the same shot. This was achieved by the creative use of bluescreen, projecting the ship's corridor, then the bridge into the background when the turbolift doors close and open.
Badger
2024-01-29 04:24:08 +0000 UTCSchizoid factoid: The Sixties sci-fi series “The Prisoner” also had an episode called “The Schizoid Man” that had nothing to do with this episode whatsoever.
James H
2024-01-29 04:14:27 +0000 UTCWouldn't saying an actor appears again, even as a different character, technically be a spoiler?
Cameron Thacker
2024-01-29 04:01:06 +0000 UTCThird hottest Vulcan behind Spock and the one I cannot name because spoilers lol.
Ca$hWednesday
2024-01-29 03:16:37 +0000 UTCThis one has it's moments, but was one of those "meh" episodes to me. The only true defining part of this one is Suzy Plakson playing the Vulcan doctor. She is hot hot hot.
Monty Crawford
2024-01-29 03:07:34 +0000 UTCPaging doctor Selar, Pon Farr in main sick bay...
Steven Johnson
2024-01-29 03:06:12 +0000 UTCTo know this episode, is to love this episode. Perhaps its only flaw is that it is too selfless. Truly, an episode for all seasons. Vulcan babe.
Steven Johnson
2024-01-29 03:05:22 +0000 UTCSeries*
Steven Johnson
2024-01-29 03:04:02 +0000 UTCSheppard is the first actor the Target Audience have seen in Star Trek who also appeared in Doctor Who (although John de Lancie appeared on the Doctor Who spinoff Torchwood).
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-01-29 03:01:50 +0000 UTC[SPOILER REDACTED]
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-01-29 03:00:45 +0000 UTCData turns into Riker and later turns into an arrogant horny old scientist
Narnman
2024-01-29 02:56:08 +0000 UTCThis is one I don't recall a lot about. I have it ranked as "Time Filler With Good Moments". I was never sure if they left Graves in the computer system or what they did with his intelligence.
KatWithAttitude
2024-01-29 02:54:27 +0000 UTCYes! 😄
DataDroid
2024-01-29 02:52:21 +0000 UTCW. Morgan Sheppard, who played Dr. Ira Graves, has a HUGE filmography of memorable characters across a 50 year career spanning every genre. It's always a pleasure when he pops up in a guest starring role in whatever show you're watching. (edit) If you watch enough TNG-era Trek, you'll notice they often re-use certain actors from time to time to play different guest characters, usually aliens. Not every actor has what it takes to sit still in the makeup chair for 3 hours while they are transformed into another species. If you find yourself asking "Hey! Didn't the guy playing this Romulan also play a Klingon back in season 1?", the answer to your question is probably "Yes".
Timothy Hennon
2024-01-29 02:51:27 +0000 UTCData’s eulogy for Graves is one of the funniest scenes in TNG. To know it is to love it.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-01-29 02:49:39 +0000 UTCI find it interesting how differently Dr. Graves and Dr. Soong, both cyberneticists, thought and went about their work. In one of the episode’s last scenes with Graves/Data and Picard in Engineering Graves reveals his mindset about an android like Data: “Before me, he was nothing. Just a walking tin can with circuits for intestines. Pathetic.” I find it astounding to hear a cyberneticist talk like that. If anything it shows the stark contrast to how Dr. Soong viewed his work. Not only did he actually build an android that is capable of emotions but through Lore he also understood that building an android that can feel is not the immediate goal. For him an android was valuable even without emotions and he trusted in his creation's ability to learn and adapt. Seeing how Grave's personality is portrayed in the episode I think there's a lot of bitterness and envy regarding Soong's work. Dr. Pulaski said in her medical log in the beginning that Dr. Graves is arguably the greatest human mind in the universe. I have to disagree there and I would say that in cybernetics Dr. Soong achieved way more.
DataDroid
2024-01-29 02:47:32 +0000 UTCData’s Grandpa?
Gregory
2024-01-29 02:46:25 +0000 UTCDoctor Selar is awesome
DataDroid
2024-01-29 02:45:13 +0000 UTCI love Brent Spiner in this, he's so destined for these kind of roles. I'm glad they give him so many opportunities to show off his acting skills.
DataDroid
2024-01-29 02:44:43 +0000 UTCWow, the tension between Picard and Data was very well played out! Picard sensed something was off from the start.. and he was able to convince Graves into giving back his friend.. well after he was knocked out! Good episode!
TalynStarburst
2024-01-29 02:41:24 +0000 UTCI have a little recollection of this episode. Overaall, I think it was okay, but certainly not great. Seeing a Vulcan character play a more active role in an episode was refreshing - I liked Dr. Selar.
Collin Freeman
2024-01-29 02:40:46 +0000 UTCPrediction: You’re disappointed Data didn’t keep the beard for the rest of the episode.
DataDroid
2024-01-29 02:39:29 +0000 UTCMOAR DOCTOR SELAR NAO.
JD Nevesytrof
2024-01-29 02:39:12 +0000 UTC
