EARLY ACCESS - We Were WRONG About Balance of Terror
Added 2024-01-28 12:53:59 +0000 UTCNew series where we revisit Star Trek TOS and discuss the episodes more in depth. How often we do these will depend on how well the first couple videos of the series do on YouTube.
Comments
Mark Lenard is awesome! I also remember him making an appearance I the Buck Rogers TV show. And I've just learned he was in an episode of Mission Impossible called "Trek"! 😆
Moonlander
2024-02-02 01:19:11 +0000 UTCLoved this. Thank you. I hope the response to this is positive enough to continue doing them.
Knights Who Say Sledge
2024-01-30 16:26:32 +0000 UTCIt's too bad, the optical effects had this episode delayed for it's premiere. Same with Cobromote manuever. These episodes were the ones that they thought put Trek's best foot forward, but the bottleneck on the opticals needed made it necessary to send episodes that needed less ship exterior shots first (i.e. Man Trap).
Mike Rogers
2024-01-29 07:30:35 +0000 UTCThat switch activated an active scanner. It would be like a silent submarine suddenly sending out a sonar ping. Huge mistake, and could be seen as an insurgent giving awayvtheir location atca critical moment.
Marqushio
2024-01-29 06:50:43 +0000 UTCThis was really interesting! I would love to see more of this! Loved the background, too, with the snap shots of the scenes you were talking about.
DataDroid
2024-01-29 06:10:42 +0000 UTCI loved the Best of Trek books. Wonderful theorizing and discussion.
tyranusfan
2024-01-29 05:03:36 +0000 UTCIt's too bad that we only saw the Romulans twice in the original series, but apparently it just costs them a lot more money back then to create the ears of a Romulan as opposed to the Klingon makeup. I guess this makeup difficulty helped the Romulans seem more remote and isolated in the Star Trek universe. They even had to create a story about the Klingons and Romulans sharing ship technology as they lost the Rolmulan ship by the time season 3 arrived, but this did allow that Klingons and Kirk's crew to use the very awesome Romulan-inspired Klingon Bird-of-Prey for Star Trek III and Star Trek IV which was able to land in 1980s San Francisco.
Chtphr Rrr
2024-01-29 01:00:31 +0000 UTCI don't like the episode as much as some people, but I think that's just because there are so many other great episodes that I like more. I have been told that it is basically just a reworked old submarine story in space. The one clue is when Spock accidentally flips a small switch which makes a noise. That one small switch is going to make more noise that everything else on the entire huge ship!?! An old gaming and Star Fleet Battles friend of mine who served in the Navy and aboard submarines sometimes told me that he liked that episode a lot. I once told him that I think I liked the other Romulan episode from the dreaded season three even more. I think he told me that I was crazy.
Chtphr Rrr
2024-01-29 00:49:15 +0000 UTCYeah, I think there was some debate at the time that the two Stiles/Styles characters might be related -- but not the same person as the two characters were played by different actors with very different personalities. James B. Sikking (born 1934) is famous for playing Lt. Howard Hunter on the 1980s TV series Hill Street Blues and as playing Doogie Howser's dad; Paul Comi (1932–2016), who was awarded three Purple Hearts during the Korean War, apparently acted in a lot of stuff before I was born, including two Twilight Zone episodes. About the only source I knew about at the time were these The Best of Trek books and similar stuff that were sold in my local book store. Star Trek III came out about 10 years before anyone heard much about the Internet much and about 15 years before I gained some access to it in my small town. That was probably why Star Trek conventions were so popular in the old days. Star Trek fans didn't really have a good way to exchange stories ideas and rumors without the Internet. It wasn't all about dressing up in costumes and meeting celebrities.
Chtphr Rrr
2024-01-29 00:35:18 +0000 UTCOn the flip side, there could be several episodes you liked that upon rewatch they might be more of a Meh.
KatWithAttitude
2024-01-29 00:06:41 +0000 UTCI'd rewatch Doomsday Machine next. That was the one your takes were wildly out of whack with the general ST fandom I think.
Ken R
2024-01-28 23:13:47 +0000 UTCThe DDM is one of my favorite TOS episodes, and the old FX never bother me. That being said, I enjoyed the remastered show for the most part, *when they followed the original scene/intention.* In Balance of Terror, they did that. The new FX matched the intention of the old. In DDM, they not only had the Enterprise moving like a jet fighter, but they also ruined the moment when Kirk first sees his ship advancing on the DDM and then Decker orders the phasers to fire. The new FX had the ship firing before Decker gave the order. For me at least, that really hurt that moment.
tyranusfan
2024-01-28 22:15:22 +0000 UTCAnd we will all do a better job in observing that Prime Directive than the various Starfleet captains do at times.
Numinous2019
2024-01-28 20:41:13 +0000 UTCAgreed. Every time I watch 2001 Space Odyssey I pick up something I missed before.
Monty Crawford
2024-01-28 20:17:25 +0000 UTCMark Lenard was a great actor for the franchise. Others in the franchise have played multiple alien characters (hope that's not construed as a spoiler) But none played a Romulan, A Vulcan, and a Klingon! Mr. Lenard also played the Gorilla general Urko in the very short Planet of the Apes TV series.
Monty Crawford
2024-01-28 20:12:52 +0000 UTCThe phenomenon you just experienced about liking Balance of Terror this time around because you are fans now, etc., is the exact same thing as when people say TNG Season 1 sucks. Except in reverse. But now you know how a lot of us feel.
Jef Etters
2024-01-28 19:47:43 +0000 UTCTwo years?? No way! 😱 Loved the video! Not having grown up watching these as a child it took me a few viewings to fully appreciate some of the 'fan favourite' episodes too.
Elizabeth N
2024-01-28 19:34:28 +0000 UTCReally looking forward to Doomsday Machine revisited. Just rewatched your initial watch to remind myself and Josh calls it an episode that is "primarily focused on action".. I've fixated on that take ever since lol.. so you guys will let us know what you think it is after the rewatch of course, but it's not an action episode ;) !!!
James Bottas
2024-01-28 18:28:15 +0000 UTCI was curious at the time why this episode didnt resonate with you as much..but..you can now see how your target audience gets a different perspective rewatching these with you and episodes I havent seen in years
Badger
2024-01-28 18:19:24 +0000 UTCI had never made that connection before, but if Harve Bennett had indeed intended it to be the same person, that would make the whole brief interaction sweeter and interesting.
Collin Freeman
2024-01-28 17:42:47 +0000 UTCI agree. I have no problem with the redone/updated special effects for TOS. The old effects were fine in their day, as you said, but they take me out of the story when I see them now, despite having seen the TOS episodes with original effects literally hundreds of times.
Collin Freeman
2024-01-28 17:39:02 +0000 UTCgreat jobs guys. I loved this revisit
Prof Moff
2024-01-28 17:37:16 +0000 UTCJosh and Alex, yes revisiting old episodes is of a favorite topic. You are following a well worn path. Exploring the ST canon quite often leads to new or better understanding. As I have said before, you two have quickly climbed the learning curve and have already made your own contributions with your comments.
James Baloun
2024-01-28 16:47:49 +0000 UTCWe have to be clear of the spoiler that this episode’s sub-marine style ship fight is the basis of the much better executed battle from Star Trek Ii the wrath of Kahn I was biting my tongue back when I watched this before, knowing the reference would return and it would have chance to get mentioned This is why the long hang out is coool . & NO SPOILERS NO SPOILERS is The Prime Directive
Thicketdweller
2024-01-28 16:22:30 +0000 UTCGiven all that she overcame in her life, she is one of the two TOS cast members who truly were heroes, not just actors who played heroes on TV. (The other one, of course, was Doohan.)
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-01-28 15:22:38 +0000 UTCWe are of the same ilk in that regard. I saw TOS in reruns and marathons throughout the early 90s as TNG's later seasons were airing and DS9 was getting started. It was basically the height of Star Trek on television. Even then, TOS just rose to the top for me. My first experience with Star Trek was The Motion Picture at age 4, so Kirk was always my favorite. The irony of The DDM being so FX heavy is it was supposed to be a "bottle show", to save money. It became an episode that pushed their FX budget to breaking, which is why the titular ship/creature is actually what it is... A "windsock that was poured in cement." I actually have the opposite reaction. The new effects of the remasters really pull me out of TOS. I prefer the original effects. They may be cheesy, but I don't see the seam lines in it. It's the same for me with Star Wars. I can't watch the Special Editions. I own 4k77 and the mid 90s pre-SE VHS tapes for that reason.
Steven Johnson
2024-01-28 15:12:00 +0000 UTCPrecisely!
Rich Cirivilleri
2024-01-28 15:09:19 +0000 UTCA lot of us have been TOS fans for so long we forget that with some of these classics we fell in love so deeply because we became so intimately familiar with them after repeated viewings. My love for TOS as a child was "huh, this is pretty good." To "This is my favorite TV show." over many years of seeing reruns on TV and then eventually getting the DVD sets. The more I learned, the more I loved. First timers don't have that benefit.
Steven Johnson
2024-01-28 15:06:47 +0000 UTCFor me, The Earth-Romulan would have been fought on ships that were basically submarines with warp engines. Slow moving, slow paced, tactical long-range deployment of nuclear weapons, lots of hide and seek tactics in planetary systems. Armada's and flotillas with active supply lines going back and forth. There's a website called the starfleet museum by Masao Okazaki which tries to create starships and history for the Earth-Romulan war with a very retro 1950s/60s aesthetic. It's a great read. https://www.starfleet-museum.org/ If I were in charge of making that movie/series, ignoring everything but the original Star Trek. I would make it like a cross between Apollo 13 and Crimson Tide. You're in a tin-can, and it's very tense and you really get a sense of the procedure of not only being in space, but how space warfare might actually work. Before we had phasers, shields, and all the magical stuff, we're using computers to calculate precision strikes from hundreds of thousands of miles away, where the enemy is little more than a ping on a screen (similar to the motion tracker in Alien, if you will.)
Steven Johnson
2024-01-28 15:04:51 +0000 UTCWe were all overjoyed to see Janice Rand return in the movie series. Her character brought grace to the Star Trek saga, and that's recognizing Grace is her first real name. She was all that and more.
Rhett Coates
2024-01-28 15:01:39 +0000 UTCLooking forward to seeing more of this. I'm just going to say it, I think you guys should give Trouble With Tribbles a rewatch. Given the disparity between the audience and yourselves, i'd be very curious to see if the same change of heart occurs, or if you guys stand to the same "middling" feeling towards that one.
Steven Johnson
2024-01-28 14:59:05 +0000 UTCGreat new background, guys! You are now starting to share another element of Star Trek as my generation experienced it. I first started watching Star Trek around 1990 on a TV station that ran syndicated reruns of both TOS and TNG. I was seeing episodes of each series alternately, simultaneously learning about Kirk's era and Picard's and the differences between them -- such as, as you pointed out, that Kirk's crew had less backup and was in greater constant danger. One of the later prequel TV series would have included the Earth-Romulan War if it hadn't been canceled when it was, which would have necessitated finding a way to dramatize it on screen while remaining faithful to the concept of the humans and Romulans never seeing each other. I believe Alex actually included "The Doomsday Machine" in his Top 10 for TOS Season 2 -- he said the interaction between Decker and the Enterprise crew had irritated him in such a way that it stuck in his mind, or something like that. Also, if you rewatch it with the original effects, it will be interesting to see how they affect your opinion of the episode. On my most recent rewatch I found that the original effects, although highly acclaimed in their day, rendered the episode unwatchable from a 21st-century perspective. (This is not true of most of TOS; "The Doomsday Machine" is, of course, one of the show's most effects-heavy episodes.)
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-01-28 14:57:52 +0000 UTCI think they may have, given that the clip of the opening seemed to be the original model shot.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-01-28 14:49:25 +0000 UTCThere is at least one original Star Trek novel that acknowledges that's the case, although of course it's not canon.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-01-28 14:48:09 +0000 UTCThe worst thing about TOS is Rand disappearing. Every time I re-watch it, first I go through that real disappointment, then sort of forget her over the next 2 & 1/2 seasons, only to re-experience that regret all over again the next time.
Numinous2019
2024-01-28 14:28:52 +0000 UTCMaybe watch the non-special addition the second time around, if you watched the other version last time?
Chtphr Rrr
2024-01-28 14:28:10 +0000 UTCthank you this is a fantastic episode one of my faves. i particularly enjoy the strategy at play we get to see from both sides
Narnman
2024-01-28 14:13:06 +0000 UTCAs well as just re-watching TOS itself, you've probably benefited from the context of watching TAS, the first 4 movies and some TNG. The strengths of TOS & TNG are different. Going back to TOS now may put some elements of it into starker focus.
Numinous2019
2024-01-28 13:58:00 +0000 UTCSince you have seen Star Trek III, you can now debate whether Captain Styles is related to Lieutenant Stiles. I guess not since the last names are spelled different, but I don't think anyone knew that 40 years ago.
Chtphr Rrr
2024-01-28 13:55:51 +0000 UTC(The flashing light is distracting -- at least at that speed.)
Chtphr Rrr
2024-01-28 13:46:43 +0000 UTCAbout Rand’s final appearance. In filming order, this was number 9. Miri was number 12. The Conscience of the King was 13.
Geoffrey Linehan
2024-01-28 13:41:27 +0000 UTCThis is that difference — that bridge to cross over — to understand fans. They’ve watched these episodes repeatedly. In the 20th anniversary special hosted by William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy, Leonard said that kids can enjoy it for the action and adventure. Then years later, they can revisit the show and catch the philosophy.
Geoffrey Linehan
2024-01-28 13:30:41 +0000 UTCSo I have to go and retrieve my eyebrows from the ceiling where they stuck when they shot right up off of my forehead when I read the title of this video. This is absolutely made my day. First of all, I can’t believe it’s been this long. Time is flying! I remember thinking at the time I was extremely disappointed in your reaction but at the same time I had grown to respect your perspective so much so I didn’t say anything Criticizing your point of you because it’s as valid as anything I might come up with because you guys are pretty damn sharp. Still, it was painful for me because balance of terror to me is one of the finest pieces of television from the 1960s. It truly is on a level of its own and its epic quality and its excellence in writing direction and acting And it hurt me to see you guys dismiss it so easily. I also remember thinking at the time a little corner of the back of my mind where I thought well they’ll review it one day probably individually and they’ll probably like it a lot more because as we all do, we often don’t appreciate some thing until we’ve seen it again. That’s happened to me many many times with movies and TV shows that I didn’t like the first time around and then seeing it again it really clicked with me. And I was going to suggest that you do a rewatch of doomsday machine, but I understand that that’s coming up next. I can’t wait.
Rich Cirivilleri
2024-01-28 13:30:13 +0000 UTCFor in series continuity, wouldn’t it be funny if the Romulan commander did look like Sarek? That would give Spock’s first reaction an interesting twist.
Collin Freeman
2024-01-28 13:26:15 +0000 UTCIn the original script, Stiles dies despite Spock pulling him out of the room.
Collin Freeman
2024-01-28 13:19:50 +0000 UTCI used to imagine the early Romulan war as being faught with ships like in Star Wars X-wing and Y-wing fighters in which neither side would have been able to see each other.
Collin Freeman
2024-01-28 13:14:10 +0000 UTCThis is my third favorite episode of TOS.
Collin Freeman
2024-01-28 13:03:24 +0000 UTC
