UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TNG S2E4 - The Outrageous Okona
Added 2024-01-25 15:00:09 +0000 UTC
Comments
Personally, I never hated this episode as much as the average Trekkie seems to, but I just find it rather uninteresting and forgettable. I will give credit to Billy Campbell, he gave a decent performance, and he might have made a decent Riker, but of course I can't imagine anyone but Frakes in that role now. Was nice they threw him a bone with this role at least. Certainly I felt he was the only decent performance out of the guest stars in that scene where they were all gathered at the end. Okona isn't a bad guy by any means, but he really is just a cardboard cut out Han Solo type character. I think the word you were looking for is antihero. This episode feels like a TNG self insert fanfic. Like some fan wrote this cool, charismatic version of themselves and wrote some story centered around themselves on the Enterprise, and then the writers turned that into a script. As to the scene where Worf went to get Okona, I get the feeling they were going for Okona being ready to fight Worf over interrupting his "socializing", and Worf is down for a good brawl. But given what was established in Hide and Q, for a klingon it kind of came off as foreplay. As for Data's quest to understand humor, while I agree Guinan's grasp of humor here isn't that great, I do agree with her at the end. It's not like the Enterprise computer "understands" humor any better than Data. Holograms might seem to grasp humor, but only because they're programmed to emulate that behavior by people who actually DO understand humor. Sure they might have some adaptive programming to respond to people on the fly, but their jokes and timing are just emulating the style of real comedians, and their laughing is just a programmed response. Sure you could program an audience that will give tougher feedback and uses a bunch of data points from real audiences/people who DO understand humor to give a more realistic response. With that, maybe Data could fine tune his material and delivery to tell some genuinely funny jokes, maybe he could even figure out how to laugh convincingly. The problem is would he FEEL any of it. Would he actually be amused by humor, or will he just be like Alexa/Siri telling a joke? That's the real problem. Data might be able to learn to tell a genuinely funny joke, but everyone would be in on it except him. So yeah, I don't think this is a good episode, but it's probably not even in my bottom 10 eps for the series. I don't hate it or anything, I just don't take it seriously.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-07-06 22:40:49 +0000 UTCBerman really wasn't in the strongest position say for Troi's outfits except possibly her next one). But yes later shows characters that weren't part of Starfleet who were in shape would get more sexualized outfits. Now Berman did really feel he needed for the most part follow the dictates that Roddenberry created (the writers even talk about how much discussion would have to be fought for to bend or break those rules, it wasn't something Rick ever did casually even on shows that Gene had no hand in whatsoever), and Gene absolutely had no issue with women being in far, far more revealing outfights then men. But Rick was also a business man, he definitely understand that Trek's largest audience share were men, and lets face it men aren't always balanced when it comes to how we few sexuality between the men and women (not all women are either, but seems even more decades ago far more common for men). You look at casting and and how the men and women were dressed and roles assigned in tv, at the same time and no question about a vast number of shows pandering to the male audience. There was a reason Baywatch was the most popular show in the world. It wasn't the scripts and it wasn't David Hasselhoff. Now Enterprise was really the first time that the bulk of the male cast seems to be in fairly solid physical shape. And did take many opportunities out of standard duty uniform to showcase those forms for the audience. But TNG forward there was always at least a cast member who was female that was more sexualized then the rest of the cast. Interestingly Modern Trek hasn't followed that pattern at all.
Mark Wood
2024-01-26 19:21:39 +0000 UTCGene was still somewhat involved in each episode. He never was in the writing room. But was always provided the various versions of script drafts to review and give notes. This was going on through the 4th season. And he was actively still giving notes and meetings over episodes up through at least 4th seasons Family (per Ron Moore).
Mark Wood
2024-01-26 19:14:52 +0000 UTCKind of funny we get the same older male types as a transport chief for nearly the whole series, until we need someone for this guy to go after.
Joe Concepts
2024-01-26 17:16:52 +0000 UTCHonestly, you can't introduce this guy and literally just call him a "rogue." It's like she stated the exact idea proposed by the writer.
Joe Concepts
2024-01-26 16:47:19 +0000 UTCBurns & Allen, the vaudeville act Data mentions at the end, were George Burns and Gracie Allen, whom the two whales were named after in Star Trek IV.
James H
2024-01-26 14:22:18 +0000 UTCPiscopo was very good at impressions (David Letterman, Frank Sinatra, etc.). But I was extremely "a 'noid" by his character who kept saying, "I'm from Joizey! You from Joizey?"
James H
2024-01-26 14:16:23 +0000 UTCDefinitely in the top 5 worst of the season for me, not THE worst but close. I rewatched because of this channel and was falling asleep during the comedy bits.
Paul Rymer
2024-01-26 11:15:06 +0000 UTCBill campbell tried out for the part of Riker!
Philbot
2024-01-26 07:19:08 +0000 UTCWesley’s uniform was I think supposed to have been a cadet uniform. But years later when we see a cadet they’re not in gray.
Philbot
2024-01-26 07:17:12 +0000 UTC"What if Han Solo were in Star Trek?" 😂😂😂 You hit the nail on the head. There are a couple more of these coming up unfortunately. Just hold out, the quality will soon increase exponentially. I guarantee you will be able to pinpoint when the Writer's strike ended. You guys were talking and missed a great line in the turbo lift: Okana: Am I going to meet Captain Picard? Worf: (looks at him and gives an evil smile). Definitely. Okana: Did I say something funny?
StealthMomo
2024-01-26 04:55:54 +0000 UTCI find this to be just an OK episode. I prefer the B-story with Data to the A story. As for Okana: even more Star Lord and perhaps Mal from Firefly than Han Solo. And lose the fake ponytail, Billy.
Collin Freeman
2024-01-26 04:21:22 +0000 UTCRomeo and Juliet plot is the oldest story in the book
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-01-26 03:54:53 +0000 UTCThis is one of the worse TNG episodes. Both stories. It really dates the series.
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-01-26 03:26:21 +0000 UTCWatching this again with the reaction...still hate it. I probably would have kinda liked the Okona story with a different B story, but the "comedy" dragged it way, way down.
KatWithAttitude
2024-01-26 01:24:42 +0000 UTCTo me Okona was a hall hearted attempt at bringing in a Harry mudd type, and the data piscopo stuff is kinda painful, this could have easily been a season 1 episode, they go up from hear
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-01-26 01:19:16 +0000 UTCJerry Lewis was one of the biggest comedians in the 50s and 60s He starred in some 60 feature films. In the 1970s and 80s he became known as the host of the annual Muscular Dystrophy telethon fundraiser. It was a huge annual TV event, as well known as the Superbowl.
Aramis Calcutt
2024-01-26 01:09:45 +0000 UTCJoe Piscopo, who played the comedian, was a breakout star from the late 1980s SNL. For a few years, he and Eddie Murphy were their biggest stars.
Aramis Calcutt
2024-01-26 01:03:12 +0000 UTCPre-Lois Lane Teri Hatcher as the beautiful transporter operator!
Aramis Calcutt
2024-01-26 00:51:13 +0000 UTCAs I said in the Patron Takes this ended up being the last TNG episode I saw for the first time. It was not worth the wait. On my breakdown of my rankings for Season 2 this was one of the two rated No. Just...No.
KatWithAttitude
2024-01-26 00:36:16 +0000 UTCIt's a shame they replaced the regular transporter chief with Teri Hatcher for this episode. Watching Okona hit on an embarrassed Colm Meaney would have been hilarious.
Regan
2024-01-26 00:35:11 +0000 UTCYes…and they’re spectacular! 😁
Mark Shampine
2024-01-26 00:12:06 +0000 UTCI found out what Piscopo's fast forward joke on the holodeck was. It sounds rough: "There's a Jewish guy, there was a Greek guy and there was an Irish guy. They die, they go to heaven, right. And they're up there at St. Peter's gate and they don't wanna die, they wanna hang out on Earth, so they go to St. Peter: "Pete, gimme one more chance on Earth over there, on Earth and if you just give me one more chance on Earth, we won't do anything bad." St. Peter says: "One nasty thing, if you guys do one nasty thing - poof, you're gone, poof you're gone, one nasty thought and you're gone." So St. Peter sends the Greek guy, the Jewish guy and the Irish guy down to Earth. As they are walking, they are walking down the street, there's a bar. The Irish guy plans to go into the bar - poof, he disappears just like that. Well, a twenty dollar bill goes rolling down the hill right, right in front of the guys..."
Narnman
2024-01-25 23:48:16 +0000 UTC"...and very real."
StonyD
2024-01-25 23:06:44 +0000 UTCRight, but not Rodenberry at this point. I mean, I love the "non-regulation uniforms” as they are more visually appealing and aren't as formal. I just didn't think Gene was still as actively involved at this point. Could be wrong.
StonyD
2024-01-25 23:06:18 +0000 UTCThe transporter chief was a young Terri Hatcher. Most hotness!
Mark Shampine
2024-01-25 22:28:26 +0000 UTCIn the Berman era of Trek series there are a few more examples of female crew members in randomly sexualized “non-regulation uniforms”.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-01-25 22:10:00 +0000 UTCAgreed. This one is hard to get through...
StonyD
2024-01-25 21:15:36 +0000 UTCSource? Wasn't Rodenberry drifting off health-wise at this point and Maurice Hurley was making all of the bad decisions?
StonyD
2024-01-25 21:14:58 +0000 UTCI don’t know what the in universe reason is, but Troi had a different uniform, because Gene Rodenberry wanted to show boobs
Turtleboy
2024-01-25 20:42:08 +0000 UTCWhy you stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy-looking Nerf herder!
Adam Zey
2024-01-25 20:31:28 +0000 UTCHeadline: Random guest takes lead in the SCORE-board. Okona - 3+ and by the way, they're real, and they are spectacular. (had to throw in the Seinfield reference) Riker - 2 Data - 1 Troi - 2 He only qualifies for this week but can't have a scoreboard and not add him for this week
Prof Moff
2024-01-25 19:43:11 +0000 UTCIn hindsight, I realize that (the writers) Guinan totally failed to teach Data anything about humor or comedy, and completely missed the mark on steering him in a helpful and appropriate direction.
Jovet
2024-01-25 19:40:04 +0000 UTCYes but not like that. Ringing the door bell is common courtesy. Asking the computer to force open the door that isn't yours is a bare minimum.
Jovet
2024-01-25 19:36:18 +0000 UTCPiscopo was good on SNL, his over the top sportscaster or his Sinatra impression for example were pretty good. However he was not known as a comedian which is very apparent here. Supposedly they had asked the real Jerry Lewis to appear as a hologram of himself, he had a conflict and couldn’t do it. My hunch is they then looked for someone that could do a Jerry Lewis impression and picked Joe Piscopo.
Rich Loga
2024-01-25 18:45:41 +0000 UTCWhile this likely isn't going to make any top 5 lists of best episodes, upon rewatch, I generally enjoyed the A plot, and liked the B plot with Data and Guinan.
Ca$hWednesday
2024-01-25 18:45:24 +0000 UTCSecurity is allowed everywhere.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-01-25 18:00:00 +0000 UTCYeah, even in 1988, Joe Piscopo never came up when we'd discuss who was funny.
JD Nevesytrof
2024-01-25 17:17:31 +0000 UTCA monk, a clone, and a Ferengi decided to go bowling together. The monk bowls nothing but gutterballs as a show of humility so he won't take pride in winning. The Ferengi bowls nothing but gutterballs because he's afraid of a strike. The clone copies the other two.
Jeff Cornell
2024-01-25 16:38:42 +0000 UTC26:35 That's exactly what I think. LOL! But I'm a dirty old man.
Jovet
2024-01-25 16:30:30 +0000 UTC25:40 I'd never noticed before how the private quarters doors just open to him. LOL
Jovet
2024-01-25 16:30:00 +0000 UTCWorking title: “Lost & Found.” Members of the Target Audience have stated that they regard TNG Season 2 as containing two unusually poor episodes. One episode later in the season has an especially poor reputation in fandom and must be one of the episodes to which those commenters were referring. There are multiple candidates for the other episode, of which “The Outrageous Okona” is the first: Alex and Josh’s opinion of it is much higher than the fan average, as with other episodes in the past. While the episode’s A story (with Okona himself) is not popular with fandom, the episode’s poor reputation comes primarily from the B story (Data and the Comic), which fans find excruciatingly unfunny. William O. “Billy” Campbell (Okona) would star in the live-action Disney film "The Rocketeer" in 1991. Gene Roddenberry would have cast him as Riker the year before this episode aired if Paramount executive John Pike had not vetoed Campbell’s selection, saying he lacked “a sense of command” and that “He wouldn’t follow this guy into battle.” Media critic L.I. Underhill has suggested on the Eruditorum Press website that the Okona character is a fictionalized version of Campbell himself, who is well-known for his wanderlust. (He later accepted a role on the sci-fi TV series The 4400 only on the condition that he could go on a planned sailing trip around the world soon after the start of production.) Other commentators have dismissed Okona as merely an inferior imitation of Han Solo. (Were you looking for the word “rogue”?) Teri Hatcher, who played B. G. Robinson, the transporter operator who is the first Enterprise crewmember to make love with Okona, requested the removal of her name from the credits after extensive post-production cuts to her scenes. Hatcher became much more famous five years later when she began playing Lois Lane in the TV series "Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman." Joe Piscopo (the Comic) was a former "Saturday Night Live" cast member and remained on the show when SNL’s infamously poor sixth season ended with the firing of all but two members of the cast. The only other survivor was Eddie Murphy, who had been the breakout star of Season 6. NBC may have kept Piscopo on SNL only because he and Murphy made an effective double act. Piscopo’s career declined precipitously after his TNG appearance, making his role as the epitome of 20th-century Earth humor extremely cringy for viewers aware of 1980s popular culture. (On this rewatch, when Data says, “Discontinue Comic,” I said aloud, “And that was the end of Joe Piscopo’s career.”) Jerry Lewis, of whom Piscopo performs an impression in the episode, was the original choice for the role but was unable to play it due to a scheduling conflict. Piscopo is now a conservative radio talk show host. Tip O’Neill, whom the Comic envisions wearing a dress, was the former long-time Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, known for his cordial relationship with President Ronald Reagan despite their representing opposing political parties; he retired from Congress in 1987, the year before this episode aired. Admittedly, the Comic is a 20th-century character projected by the holodeck; nonetheless, the reference to O’Neill, whose name modern viewers may not recognize, severely dates the episode. I personally find the climactic scene in which Data realizes that the holodeck audience will laugh at anything he says heartbreaking and difficult to watch. Scenes in which Data experiences setbacks in his quest to become more human always make me sad. My late mother reacted to such scenes in the same way. Star Trek fans on Reddit and elsewhere have offered their own completions of Data’s interrupted joke, “A monk, a clone and a Ferengi decided to go bowling together.” Does the Target Audience have any suggestions?
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-01-25 16:27:02 +0000 UTCI liked this episode. I don't understand why some people consider it garbage. You got a decent story with Okona and a legitimately good piece of character building with Data. Not bad!
Captain Proton
2024-01-25 16:15:29 +0000 UTCDon't forget: Riker didn't seduce or get seduced either.
Jovet
2024-01-25 16:09:48 +0000 UTCI never re-watch this episode, because the first half just makes me cringe out of my skin. But I acknowledge that the second half is a lot better, once the story with the two ships gets going and the show stops trying so hard to make us like Okona.
Jeff Cornell
2024-01-25 16:04:15 +0000 UTCWell, if it’s not scoundrel, Do you mean: Nerve herder
Thicketdweller
2024-01-25 15:56:35 +0000 UTCThis episode is so bad it hurts me physically. However, it was actually nice to have an episode where the "person of the episode" didn't hook up with Councilor Troi or Worf didn't get his ass kicked,
A Surprisingly Moist Fart
2024-01-25 15:52:29 +0000 UTCAlthough a lot of folks pan this one, I always thought of it as good and humorous. I always liked Joe Piscapo.
Monty Crawford
2024-01-25 15:32:07 +0000 UTCThis is one of the few I have zero recollection of, but I will watch it just to follow your reaction 👍
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-01-25 15:16:01 +0000 UTCTerri Hatcher,
Mark
2024-01-25 15:06:07 +0000 UTCAh, it's the space chad one 😅
SinocTheHodgeheg
2024-01-25 15:05:24 +0000 UTCIt’s a tribute to your channel that I’m going to watch this garbage episode.
John M.
2024-01-25 15:02:05 +0000 UTC
