PATRON TAKES - Star Trek TNG - Season 2 Episode 3
Added 2024-01-21 22:19:46 +0000 UTCComment on this post your ‘takes’ on this episode and we will read a few in our discussion!
NO SPOILERS - If it is information regarding anything THAT DOES OR DOES NOT HAPPEN after this episode, don't include it in your comment.
If you want your take to be read in the video, comment ONE of the following:
- A brief review (2-3 sentences) of why you like/dislike the episode
- A question for us about the episode
- A prediction of how you think we will react to a certain aspect of the episode
- A fun fact about the episode
We are watching this episode Monday, so we won’t be reading the comments on this until then. If you have questions shoot us a message!
Comments
I loved "Big E", it's ashame she wasn't available for ST:IV though the Ranger was a good substitute.
James Knight
2024-01-26 12:56:15 +0000 UTCBest episode, so far.
Crush
2024-01-24 04:39:45 +0000 UTCGuys, you can watch Daniel Davis in his other famous role: Niles, The Butler, on "The Nanny" sitcom (1993-1999). His interaction with lead actress Frran Dresher is hysterical, proving Davis has a tremendous sense of comedic timing. And here's the most astonishing item in his film career that's "sort of" related to Star Trek - it's about the AIRCRAFT CARRIER U.S.S. Enterprise (CNV-65; the TOS starship was named after this carrier), which was in service from 1961 to 2012: Daniel Davis portrayed the CAPTAIN of the Enterprise (!!) in the movie "The Hunt For Red October." In a side note (peripherally related), Lucille Ball, who was running Desilu during TOS years and green-lit the show from the start, co-starred with Henry Fonda in the 1963 movie "Yours, Mine and Ours" - where Fonda's character was in the Navy and an officer aboard the USS Enterprise carrier, which many in the navy called "The Big E." In a way, naming TOS's starship after the carrier was also a heart-felt nod to Lucy, and her "related" history to the carrier. BTW, they're building a new USS Enterprise carrier in Newport News, Va. , to be launched in a few more years: CVN-80.
Rhett Coates
2024-01-24 01:43:18 +0000 UTCWow, Mike: after ALL THESE YEARS, I never thought about that little tid-bit: they took a HOLODECK construct OFF the Holodeck. The sheet of paper should have vanished the moment Data exited the room!
Rhett Coates
2024-01-24 01:41:00 +0000 UTCFinally the payoff to Data's flirtations with Holmes mysteries in Season 1. :-D This is one of a few very expensive episodes this season. All those costumes and sets broke the budget in ways that transporters and phasers and claymation parasites did not! This is one of those "holodeck episodes taken to the next level", with Moriarty's self-awareness, and then his reasonableness and non-antagonism. That he was created as an antagonist but not an evil man was a really nice touch to me. Also seriously who designed the holodeck? It can create sentient life? Safety protocols can be overridden to a fatal degree? Hoooow? How is there no board or group that decides that cannot be allowed to happen?
Ian Westcott
2024-01-23 22:17:39 +0000 UTCLove NY-Alls! :D
DataDroid
2024-01-23 11:16:24 +0000 UTCYeah, that's one of those facepalm moments. Like a Data contraction. I guess paper is benign enough to be fully synthesized and not holographically simulated. Water seems to be the same.
Jovet
2024-01-23 01:56:41 +0000 UTCWell, a lot of off the wall and nonsensical things have been "retconned under the rug" like a lot of the bizarre TOS things, not to mention the prison at the center of the galaxy. (Hard to believe no one realized that idea wouldn't age well....)
Jovet
2024-01-23 01:53:57 +0000 UTCAgreed. This is why I’m glad they cut this banter pretty early on.
Column Meanie
2024-01-23 01:22:40 +0000 UTCA very lovable episode. Lots of fun moments. The idea that all it takes for the computer to make a holographic character that achieves self awareness and is able to affect the ship is for Geordi to request one that can defeat Data is far fetched though. They did shoot a scene noting that one day they probably could find a way to get Moriarity out of the holodeck because they were able to take the drawing of the Enterprise out of it.
Mike Rogers
2024-01-23 00:08:03 +0000 UTCMy biggest issue with Pulaski is that the writers seemed to want to recapture some of the banter and tension of Spock & McCoy, while fundamentally not understanding how different Data and Spock are. Spock took shots back at McCoy. Spock was ready with a bit of an insult and a raised eyebrow to make it all feel more balanced and level between them. When Pulaski insults and picks on Data, he doesn’t insult her back. She’s picking on someone who actively wishes they could be more human. It makes her actions feel mean spirited.
ScarlettMi
2024-01-22 23:46:20 +0000 UTCOne of my early favorites.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-01-22 23:17:38 +0000 UTCAgreed, and I've never had an issue with her lack of understanding him, since TNG has already made the conscious choice that all the sentient androids seen in TOS have been forgotten about. Not just by Pulaski, but by everybody. Not a single person who meets Data seems to be aware of what happened a hundred years past - which is odd for Starfleet officers who have a reason to know such historical information. Pulaski's lack of connecting to Data, and her consideration of him as just a machine, is not that far removed from Picard's and Riker's initial reactions to him. It's just that in this case, we get to see a character warming to him gradually, instead of skipping that process between episodes as we did in season one.
Andy Frankham-Allen
2024-01-22 21:16:45 +0000 UTCWell, the characters seem to think holograms are alive in some context. I don't agree, but they do. And the Star Trek creatives never had anything like this happen again... even in cases like Vic Fontaine.
Darin Wagner
2024-01-22 21:06:10 +0000 UTCInteresting take on Pulaski..always nice to read differing perspectives. Personally I always preferred Crusher for the opposite reason. She felt completely fleshed out, while Pulaski always seemed a little one dimensional to me.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-01-22 20:40:22 +0000 UTCI don't love this episode but I do appreciate how they went about writing the Pulaski character. Being a medical doctor, she has little in common with an artificial life form like Data. So it is very hard for her to relate to him at first.
Jovet
2024-01-22 20:26:22 +0000 UTCOh yes! I meant to mention this too! It's an infamous moment in TNG! Pretty hilarious, in hindsight! You beat me to it.
Jovet
2024-01-22 20:24:20 +0000 UTCBingo! LOL!!!
Jovet
2024-01-22 20:23:18 +0000 UTCThey're not alive, and I am suspicious that the Enterprise's computer—despite its enormous complexity—could actually give sentience to any holographic entity.
Jovet
2024-01-22 20:23:03 +0000 UTC"All plot armor is impenetrable. "
Jovet
2024-01-22 20:21:15 +0000 UTCIt's complete plot armor bullshit. And it takes me right out of the story. I appreciate creative, smart writing... which is not this story.
Jovet
2024-01-22 20:20:18 +0000 UTCI totally understand. My father was blind as well, so I know that experiencing a web page through a screen reader is a whole new level of complicated. I'm glad you got it sorted out just fine!
Jovet
2024-01-22 20:14:11 +0000 UTCNot being able to leave at will is hardly an exciting new feature. (Unless you're a TV series writer grasping at straws.)
Jovet
2024-01-22 20:10:58 +0000 UTCI just watched their Top-5 Season 1 episodes video, and I concur with your prediction.
Jovet
2024-01-22 20:09:04 +0000 UTCWhat's your knowledge of Sherlock Holmes canon? As a Trekkie and a Sherlock Holmes fan this episode is gold for me.
DataDroid
2024-01-22 17:42:18 +0000 UTCAnother holodeck goes wrong episode! Geordi almost destroys the Enterprise all because of semantics. Nice job Chief Engineer! Words matter! I’m curious what your take is on Dr Pulaski at this point. She’s a character that divided a lot of the fanbase at the time of the series’ first run. However I have found on subsequent viewings that there is much more depth to her character (and frankly she’s written better) than to Dr Crusher.
Column Meanie
2024-01-22 17:17:15 +0000 UTCOh, well, in that case: This, moreso, than the first season's "The Big Goodbye," gives us an extreme example of the holodeck's capabilities. With a casual verbal command mistake, Geordi essentially "creates life" with the holographic Moriarty. While I've personally never considered holograms to be "alive," on this show they apparently are. This has huge implications and, thankfully, this idea was never explored further on the show.
Darin Wagner
2024-01-22 13:12:30 +0000 UTCHere we go, onto one of the true first classics. Well, regarded as such by most of the fandom. For me, I enjoy it a lot being a Holmes fan, and I even forgive Burton's terrible English accent since it's Geordi's terrible English accent. Spiner does an amazing job capturing the Basil Rathbone take on Holmes here, and every single scene with Pulaski is a pure joy to watch. I am, apparently, in the minority in that I love Pulaski. Yes, she starts as a bit of a McCoy clone (blame Roddenberry for that) but she soon evolves into her own character. Will you guys like it? My feeling is yes, and my feeling is you're gonna warm to Pulaski the way she slowly warms to Data in this episode.
Andy Frankham-Allen
2024-01-22 12:09:38 +0000 UTCor chocolate spread
Ee'char
2024-01-22 10:49:03 +0000 UTCThank you, I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but I am totally blind, and I use text to speech programs. I didn’t notice that only by my post was I getting a button marked options until you said look for the three dots well, of course, being blind that didn’t really work, but then I decided that I noticed an option button next to my post And everything went smoothly from there once again thank you
Thicketdweller
2024-01-22 09:20:26 +0000 UTCWell, they are supposed to be in London in the 1880s?
Thicketdweller
2024-01-22 09:13:58 +0000 UTCWhile it is a bunch of technobabble, They say that they cannot disengage the hollow deck, and stop the program, and in order to shut the program down in a forced shut down manner, would be to run high energy particles through a conduit into the holo-deck destroying the holo-deck creations, as well as the human flesh, so shutting it down Wasn’t truly an option Of course, this all boils down to the scenarios are only true, because the writers wrote them that way
Thicketdweller
2024-01-22 09:08:37 +0000 UTCJordy does exactly what I mean when I say I’m not afraid of artificial intelligence, but I am afraid of natural stupidity, I’m not saying Geordie was stupid, but his command was. Perhaps the concept of letting the genie out of the bottle in relation to AI has merit, after all, when making your wishes with a genie, you have to beware and choose words very carefully or very bad things happen
Thicketdweller
2024-01-22 08:57:37 +0000 UTCSome more continuity, building on Data's interest in Sherlock Holmes and sparking my own. But I feel the concept of the episode isn't fully realized and is a bit anti-climactic, but it was nice to see this period piece of an episode regardless.
Nolan
2024-01-22 06:52:05 +0000 UTCPicard utters "Merde", the French word for "shit". As it was said in a foreign language, it passed the TV censors. Merde is sometimes translated as "damn" in subtitles.
Badger
2024-01-22 04:54:58 +0000 UTCI got chills while re-watching this episode considering recent advances in generative AI technology like ChatGPT. We now to have to chose our words carefully when asking for things from our technology.
KMScudder
2024-01-22 04:34:06 +0000 UTCMalfunction or exciting new feature? It's harder to tell as our technology becomes more advanced.
KMScudder
2024-01-22 04:21:08 +0000 UTCThey read the Patron Takes after watching the episode, so you only need to worry about spoiling things from later episodes.
Regan
2024-01-22 04:15:59 +0000 UTCSherlock Data is back! I loved this one then and still do...Probably because Data is my Fav character. I think Pulaski is warming up to Data a bit more. Interesting story of a Holodeck character becoming Sentient but not able to leave the Holodeck. You guys should like this one....if for no other reason that it is entertaining. That's it. 😀🖖
Duane Chancey
2024-01-22 03:31:25 +0000 UTCWorf being startled by Picard's tophat is priceless
James Bottas
2024-01-22 02:33:57 +0000 UTCThis episode is hard to talk about without spoilers, but suffice it to say you guys should find it interesting but also dated. No pun intended.
Darin Wagner
2024-01-22 02:18:43 +0000 UTCNot gonna lie, I would watch an entire side series with Data and La Forge as Holmes and Watson, it's such a fun setting for them to play around in.
JD Nevesytrof
2024-01-22 02:14:57 +0000 UTCFun fact: The description of Holmes' violin-playing that Geordi writes in Watson's journal is not a quotation from one of Conan Doyle's Holmes stories. That is Geordi's own description of Data's violin-playing, written in Watson's voice as though referring to Holmes.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-01-22 02:12:17 +0000 UTCI think many Americans know the phrase "tea and crumpets."
Joe Concepts
2024-01-22 02:08:55 +0000 UTC- "Computer, disregard and cancel my previous requests to give Data a worthy opponent." - "Sorry, all commands are final."
Joe Concepts
2024-01-22 02:07:42 +0000 UTCI like the episode but I wish They’d tried to replicate McCoy/Spock relationship with Worf instead of Data. Worf can give as good as he gets but Pulaski feels like a bully every time she picks a fight with Data.
Matthew McKinnon-Gray
2024-01-22 02:05:04 +0000 UTCYou can edit your original post (and delete this corrective one) by clicking/tapping on the three dots near your post.
Jovet
2024-01-22 02:03:50 +0000 UTCBecause Moriarty is English!
Jovet
2024-01-22 02:02:21 +0000 UTCNo. It malfunctions.
Jovet
2024-01-22 02:01:54 +0000 UTCI consider this episode pretty weak, at last from the sci-fi perspective. The verbal slip-up from Geordi is pretty amusing. But everyone seemed to forget Dr. Beverly's advice: WHY DON'T YOU JUST SHUT IT OFF?? In a realistic world, there's no reason they don't have full control over where power is being utilized in the ship. Turn off or physically disconnect the holodeck! Problem solved, episode over.
Jovet
2024-01-22 01:58:04 +0000 UTC@Regan Correct. We don't have crumpets here. Just as you don't have (what we would call) southern-style biscuits there.
Jovet
2024-01-22 01:54:06 +0000 UTCHer interview with Michael Rosenbaum finally answered my question as to why they switched to Harrison Ford in the next movie. Too bad it cost McFadden the role.
tyranusfan
2024-01-22 01:15:45 +0000 UTCOn the holodeck. Yeah, I liked that episode.
Chtphr Rrr
2024-01-22 01:15:29 +0000 UTCI knew immediately that problems were going on rise when Geordi asked the computer to make an adversary capable of defeating Data. This is where Picard had to come in to solve the issue.. great episode!
TalynStarburst
2024-01-22 00:58:53 +0000 UTCThis one is a personal favorite of mine with the holodeck shenanigans, and just because I’m a huge Sherlock Holmes fan. Daniel Davis shines as Moriarty and kind of leaves you wanting to root for the villain to get his wish to be free of the holodeck.
Eric Bundy
2024-01-22 00:54:27 +0000 UTCFun fact also in Hunt for Red October is Gates McFadden who played Jack Ryan’s (Alec Baldwin) wife
Eric Bundy
2024-01-22 00:51:01 +0000 UTCDiana Muldaur actually requested to not have her credit be in the title sequence. In Hollywood it is considered to be higher prestige to be credited with "Special Appearance by..." at the end of the Guest Starring credits.
David Brown
2024-01-22 00:31:54 +0000 UTCSherlock Holmes, Holodeck shenanigans, and out thinking the computer. Middle of the road season 2 episode, but a little fun
Gregory
2024-01-22 00:25:07 +0000 UTCTo quote Beverly: “Just shut it off!” But, honestly, Data as Sherlock Holmes never gets old. Interestingly, despite Daniel Davis’ British accent here (and subsequently on the sitcom The Nanny), he’s actually from Arkansas! You can hear his normal accent in The Hunt for Red October, where he ironically played captain of the USS Enterprise and clashed with Alec Baldwin’s Jack Ryan.
tyranusfan
2024-01-22 00:20:32 +0000 UTCThe mystery elements of this episode are very good. The writers paid attention to detail, and played the audience very nicely with the "third mystery" that Data eventually figures out.
Nerd's Gold
2024-01-22 00:03:54 +0000 UTCBrent Spiner really plays with Data here. This episode starts getting into actual friendship instead of just being colleagues. Pulaski is a little annoying but overall in character. You can decide whether her dislike of technological beings is a put on that she drops or if she truly has a change of heart (because I recall her treating Moriarty far different than Data).
Nerd's Gold
2024-01-22 00:02:16 +0000 UTCDaniel Davis as Moriarty gloriously eats the scene around every actor until Patrick Stewart shows up. Great performance!
StonyD
2024-01-21 23:51:00 +0000 UTCIn my opinion this is the best Dr Polaski episode. I would have liked to have seen an episode where they interacted with Tarzan in a holodeck jungle. I mean the juxtaposition of transporters versus flinging through the jungle by vine, would give quite a then and now perspective. Having seen this crossover to Holmes story, what other IP would you like to see TNG utilize My dream never happened but yours might.
Thicketdweller
2024-01-21 23:33:30 +0000 UTCIMO the first memorable episode from S1&2. A self-inflicted crisis derived from goofing-off. Are you satisfied with the ending solution? BTW If you didn't notice yet, Dr Pulaski (Diana Muldaur) played 2 roles in ST:TOS.
MrDeadstu
2024-01-21 23:25:21 +0000 UTCMe too! I only found out the other day!
Dion James Pitman
2024-01-21 23:12:39 +0000 UTCOmg, do you know the only other place I've seen Daniel is the Nanny as the awesomest, spunky butler...so if anyone had asked me, I would've bet the house that he is English! lolest i would have lost BADLY
C_Drew
2024-01-21 23:08:58 +0000 UTCAnother lazy filler episode that’s elevated by a stellar performance from Daniel Davis. I’ve always wondered why they had Pulaski eating crumpets; many Americans don’t know what they are.
Smear Campaign
2024-01-21 23:05:55 +0000 UTCAnd the holodeck does not malfunction here. It does what it is asked to do.
KatWithAttitude
2024-01-21 23:05:42 +0000 UTCThis is a great episode....and little known fact: The Sir Arthur Conan Doyle estate took a bit of issue with using the Moriarty character they way they did, was a bit of a legal issue for awhile.
Monty Crawford
2024-01-21 23:00:57 +0000 UTCThis is one of the most memorable season 2 episodes. Seeing Brent Spiner (from Texas) and Daniel Davis (from Arkansas) pulling out their best English accents is worth the price of admission just by itself. And I reeeaally want that model of HMS Victory.
Regan
2024-01-21 22:59:40 +0000 UTCThe very first time I watched this I thought it was going to be a dumb 'filler' episode... But by the time the episode ended I thought it was one of the greatest episodes of Star Trek I'd ever seen. (Still do!). I hope you both get a kick out of it.
Alan F
2024-01-21 22:57:19 +0000 UTCDo Americans not know what a crumpet is?
Regan
2024-01-21 22:54:12 +0000 UTCIt's a holodeck episode AND It's also a Data episode! This one is a classic in my opinion and the best of Season 2 thus far. We also get to see the Data and Geordi friendship blossom some more.
Ca$hWednesday
2024-01-21 22:52:06 +0000 UTCThis is one of the best bottle episodes of season 2 and introduces us to one of the most fascinating holographic villains of the time. Moriarty is a particular favorite of mine. It's the first time you learn the holodeck can control the ship for good or in this case nefarious means.
Joshua Hiett
2024-01-21 22:41:56 +0000 UTCThis episode will probably be one your top 3 TNG episodes to date, and will probably make your Top 5 of Season 2 by the end.
Timothy Hennon
2024-01-21 22:39:37 +0000 UTCYou previously wondered if holodeck characters can be self aware. Well, now you have your answer. Overall a great episode about the nature of life and what it means to be alive. And very fitting to that theme, it starts off as a Data episode.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-01-21 22:33:51 +0000 UTCLove this episode, it’s one I pick at random if I feel like some TNG. Everything about it works, Pulaski is fitting in better and has some playful banter with the others. Brent Spiner as Data playing Holmes is hilarious.
Paul Rymer
2024-01-21 22:33:35 +0000 UTCOne of the good episodes of S2, and probably considered a classic by most TNG fans. The only thing I don't like is that the premise of the episode is set up by HATER Pulaski! Down with Pulaski! Shoot her out an airlock!
Michael Mannisto
2024-01-21 22:32:28 +0000 UTCThis episode is a nice pay-off to those silly scenes in "Lonely Among Us" where Data acts the fool as Sherlock Holmes.
Dion James Pitman
2024-01-21 22:30:20 +0000 UTCOne of my very favorites of season 2, maybe even of the whole show. We're continuing to evolve Data's love of Sherlock Holmes, exploring usage of the holodeck, and even getting into what TNG does at its very best, character driven moral quandaries. If we do return to the moriarty character, what do you think we will see?
Steven Johnson
2024-01-21 22:30:04 +0000 UTCHolodecks! More trouble than Tribbles more fun than shore leave!
Neill Shaughness
2024-01-21 22:29:04 +0000 UTCFun holodeck episode. Shows that cyber security in the 24th century is lacking, and that when programming it’s very important to be precise with instructions. I think overall you’ll like this one. Nice way to get away from the normal ship and still have a bit of drama.
Lt Dan I scream
2024-01-21 22:25:29 +0000 UTCCrumpet, traditional British teatime treat that is a type of griddle cake, known for its cratered surface. The spongy cakes are traditionally toasted and spread with butter. Add jam to that butter and they're even more delicious.
SinocTheHodgeheg
2024-01-21 22:25:21 +0000 UTCOne of the classic TNG holodeck episodes. Another opportunity for Brent Spiner to flex his (so far) underutilized acting chops.
Mister Hope
2024-01-21 22:24:36 +0000 UTCIf you liked Data’s Holmes impression and “The Big Goodbye” in Season 1 then this will be for you. And Daniel Davis (Moriarty) played Niles (NY-Alls!) on “The Nanny” 🕵🏻
Adam Reid
2024-01-21 22:24:28 +0000 UTCBest episode of the season so far. Spiner shines as Data, as does Daniel Davis as Moriarty. Fun Fact: Davis is from Arkansas - he's not English. We see further strengthening of the Data-Geordi friendship here. And Pulaski gets some good moments, too. A little too much use of the holodeck at this point in the season.
Collin Freeman
2024-01-21 22:23:56 +0000 UTCI have one thing, and one thing only, to say. Awwwwww, FUCK yeah!
Ragnarok
2024-01-21 22:23:55 +0000 UTCIn response to the episode 11001001, I may have mentioned something about holograms. And the nature of some of them....
Ee'char
2024-01-21 22:22:51 +0000 UTCYou are both going to love this episode
Troy Massey
2024-01-21 22:21:40 +0000 UTC
