FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S1E26 - The Neutral Zone
Added 2023-12-28 16:20:20 +0000 UTC
Comments
Picard is in his 60s canonically throughout TNG FYI.
fassbinderfanny
2025-01-03 02:30:04 +0000 UTCMy money is on genetic engineering. They didn't like being enslaved to volatile vulcan physiology. Pon farr and all that.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-07-03 07:01:31 +0000 UTCWell they wouldn't lost their technology. The knowledge to build stuff is still going to be on some hard drive or in a book somewhere, so it's not like you're going back to the 16th century. It's just a matter of rebuilding after the 3rd world war, and on that point, just look at say Germany in 1945 vs 1975 say(or even the early 1950s). People will build back fast when they put their minds to it.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-07-03 06:12:34 +0000 UTC"What if Season 2 is bad?" I like your reference ;-)
Ee'char
2024-01-08 20:37:04 +0000 UTCSUCH Klingon development is going to come for you during TNG Season 3, and if it wasn't already apparent, more during Season 5
Ee'char
2024-01-08 20:20:28 +0000 UTCYou guys are REALLY easy to please
Ee'char
2024-01-08 20:11:51 +0000 UTCRoddenberry thought Trek was done. Letter writing campaigns to save the series just didn’t happen, till it did. I can’t damn anyone for trying to keep his job
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-01-04 13:35:04 +0000 UTC"Assignment: Earth" was always one of my favorite TOS episodes, so it's a little painful when Alex and Josh refer to it disparagingly. However, I didn't realize until recently what a scumbag move it was for Roddenberry to make what he thought would be the TOS series finale a backdoor pilot for another show, in the hope of keeping himself employed. I can see now why, philosophically, "Assignment: Earth" can reasonably be considered one of the worst TOS episodes. I'll probably have more to say about this if the guys rewatch "Assignment: Earth" as part of their TOS discussion series.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-01-04 05:24:40 +0000 UTCOr it might just have been a case of the writers meeting up and someone saying; "What do you mean.......you wrote a story about the Federation facing a deadly new enemy too!!!"
Numinous2019
2024-01-03 19:22:54 +0000 UTCThe (for want of a better word) rules for TV show writing is that you don't write two consecutive stories about a new major threat. Instead you let the implications of the first major threat stew in the audience's imagination. It's the same reason why you don't write two life-changing romance stories in a row, or two light hearted stories, or two disaster-type episodes, or two someone gets critically injured and their life hangs in the balance episodes. Doing what TNG did in its final two episodes smacks of artificially ramping up the stakes before the show goes on a break. It also suggests the writers had no clear idea of which threat to develop or how.
Numinous2019
2024-01-03 19:19:10 +0000 UTCI would agree if we ever saw Vulcans with those foreheads. But we never did before and never have afterwards.
Jef Etters
2024-01-02 23:45:39 +0000 UTCIt really makes sense because we probably need some kind of major dark age in order for us to make meaningful changes to society
Derek Orr
2024-01-02 23:16:39 +0000 UTCI mean thats exactly what we did at the time🤷♂️
Derek Orr
2024-01-02 23:13:05 +0000 UTCHuh? What currently broadcast series? He is talking about STV and TNG
Derek Orr
2024-01-02 23:12:13 +0000 UTCThe records would have shown he was also a cryonics person from the past. But being a descendant by like 20 generations AND a lookalike of her husband sure does open up some weird possibilities for an awkward sorta kinda taboo love story lol
Derek Orr
2024-01-02 23:10:14 +0000 UTCWhy not?
Derek Orr
2024-01-02 23:07:20 +0000 UTCI mean it’s pretty realistic actually, especially given the size of the galaxy. Its just like a couple years ago no one saw a major land war in Europe happening or a major war between Israel and Hamaas breaking out
Derek Orr
2024-01-02 23:06:41 +0000 UTCIt’s really no different the small differences we have on earth. These romulans are like asians or Africans with slightly different physical features compared to caucasians. In TOS we saw romulans from one part of the planet and now we see ones from another part
Derek Orr
2024-01-02 23:04:53 +0000 UTCWhich makes sense because it was weird how data left to go deal with entering the neutral zone…but then had time for guitar making with old time music dude
Derek Orr
2024-01-02 22:55:21 +0000 UTC400 years from now we would seem like primatives. And we do suck
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-01-02 06:44:12 +0000 UTCYou guys are way too tough on assignment earth I just re watched it I always liked that show, backdoor pilot or not
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-01-02 06:42:41 +0000 UTCOne pointless note: Wesley was cut from this episode. When Sonny says “that young man” made his guitar, he’s not talking about Data, but Wesley.
Jef Etters
2024-01-01 22:54:53 +0000 UTCI hate the Romulans new forehead ridges. The ENTIRE POINT of their reveal 80 years prior is that their identical look to Spock surprised everyone. Sure, they broke off from Vulcans centuries ago and could have evolved with time and breeding with conquered species…but not in just 80 years. Hate the stupid foreheads.
Jef Etters
2024-01-01 22:52:29 +0000 UTCThey could have had a dark outdo by going back to the derelict ship and showing that the "empty" container Data looked at was actually a child that only came halfway up the tube. Just a random thought.
Nerd's Gold
2023-12-30 15:03:07 +0000 UTCWell, it's still a fair assessment: humanity has a lot growing up left to do.
Jovet
2023-12-30 00:03:28 +0000 UTCI was concerned that they were talking over important exposition in "Conspiracy"...
Jovet
2023-12-30 00:02:03 +0000 UTCTrek in the 90s was a little like the FBI series are now and possibly NCIS - occasional crossovers and / or guest appearances from regular and featured cast members.
Paul Rymer
2023-12-29 23:57:49 +0000 UTCThe actor on the right (Anthony James) was in a couple of episodes of Buck Rogers in the 25th Century.
Dan Krantz
2023-12-29 23:27:47 +0000 UTCYes they have to watch the shows as they were broadcast. Remember there's a two part episode in Season Six of TNG that has some crossover with DS9. If they didn't start watching DS9 until they finish TNG it would have a few spoilers for them.
Dan Krantz
2023-12-29 23:24:19 +0000 UTCAs Picard described it in Encounter at Farpoint: "The post-atomic horror." Seems we almost nuked ourselves into oblivion. No wonder they look back at the 20 & 21st centuries and think we R dummbies. <-- "Irony"
Nolan
2023-12-29 22:56:54 +0000 UTCNo it’s the way we watched it at the time. There are minor crossovers and mentions in dialogue until TNG ends. The scheduling meant that you usually had 2 episodes of DS9 then 1 of TNG - it made sense at the time and it will in a watch now.
Paul Rymer
2023-12-29 22:33:50 +0000 UTCYep I went and figured that out the past few days... and was pretty shocked to learn Stewart started on TNG the same age I am now! LOL! And that Jean-Luc was supposed to be that old.
Jovet
2023-12-29 22:17:54 +0000 UTCI would avoid revealing or hinting anything, including which plot questions later do or do not get answered or resolved. Stating certain actors return later is not a good idea either.
Jovet
2023-12-29 22:16:47 +0000 UTCI meant concurrently-broadcast, not currently broadcast. e.g. DS9 started when TNG was still going. Juggling watching both at the same time may be... weird.
Jovet
2023-12-29 22:14:57 +0000 UTCWell, I can only assume the writer's strike at that point caused some shuffling of ideas, not to mention all the behind the scenes struggles in the writer's room.
Nolan
2023-12-29 20:31:58 +0000 UTCWhat I find so strange is that after 'Conspiracy' which introduced a major (and long term?) threat, the very next episode re-introduced the Romulans and also evidence of a MAJOR threat by unknown entities (or is this another aspect of the same threat in 'Conspiracy'?). I have never seen a TV series do something like this and it either was a long term plan by the writers, or they were just fumbling around trying to find a way to lead into season 2. Who knows?!! It definitely isn't in the writer's handbook to introduce major series elements in such a scattershot "The next one we try will work" way.
Numinous2019
2023-12-29 20:18:17 +0000 UTCBTW, Patrick Stewart was 47 during TNG Season 1, but Jean-Luc Picard was 59 -- humans age more slowly in the 24th century. Picard's age allows him to have a more richly detailed backstory, some of which we've learned about in Season 1, such as his long period of service aboard the USS Stargazer.
Anthony Bernacchi
2023-12-29 19:45:15 +0000 UTCSuspension of disbelief I guess? I suppose once Humans were able to invent Warp Drive, progress speeded up quickly. Who knows.
Chris S.
2023-12-29 19:11:28 +0000 UTCSpot on. Ron Jones was (and is) a genius. When Picard comes back from his briefing, and orders to head into the neutral zone, everyone stops and stares at Picard for a moment. Jones’s 8-note Romulan theme is playing. Its a tense motif that say “uh oh, this is no joke” and it continues into the conference room as Worf snaps his head at Picard…..”Romulans”. To me, its a chilling moment. Honestly, I wish the guys would talk a little less, but its fine.
Chris S.
2023-12-29 19:08:19 +0000 UTCAnother episode that makes me cringe. I simply didn’t like the fish out of water B story
David Marcoot
2023-12-29 18:53:43 +0000 UTCI think almost anything can be considered a spoiler, but obviously some spoilers are bigger than others. (I also think the Romulan on the left is fairly obviously a much better actor than the one on the right.)
Anthony Bernacchi
2023-12-29 17:29:04 +0000 UTCThe Romulan on the left is one of those Trek actors that return as different aliens over the years. And he plays a more important character later on DS9. I don't think the return of an actor as someone else counts as a spoiler, does it?
Joe Concepts
2023-12-29 16:17:31 +0000 UTCThat’s not what I mean, they are watching in original broadcast and release order so won’t get up to “current” Trek for years. I think the best order is broadcast as you avoid things being revealed too early, and have a similar experience to the 80s / 90s. Star Trek V The Final Frontier came out in June 1989, which was just before episode 19 of TNG season 2.
Paul Rymer
2023-12-29 14:46:48 +0000 UTCI'm not sure about that. I don't think it's a good idea for them to watch currently-broadcast series. I wonder how they'll end up handling that.
Jovet
2023-12-29 14:26:32 +0000 UTCI'm so exited for them! (And us!) It's going to take a while to get through it, though.
Jovet
2023-12-29 14:25:01 +0000 UTCThe original Romulans were based on the Roman empire, but they discarded that whole thing. I assumed the descendant who looked exactly like her husband is actually her husband and he thawed out too, and they'll live happily ever after.
Ken R
2023-12-29 10:54:32 +0000 UTCEnjoying your guys' reactions to the show, good stuff. Can't wait for Season 2.
Rj Simas
2023-12-29 00:28:45 +0000 UTCNot sure if you guys are familiar with the famous theoretical physicist and author Michio Kaku, but he is a big Trek fan, and for what it's worth this episode is his favorite Star Trek episode of all time.
Matt F
2023-12-28 23:55:46 +0000 UTCSeason 2 is overall great; nothing to worry about there. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier is coming up as well between episodes 18 and 19 of TNG season 2. I just checked this and when you watch in strict order it’s rather cool how the sequence works out. The scheduling (in the US) must have been deliberate.
Paul Rymer
2023-12-28 23:15:35 +0000 UTCYou guys are gonna love what’s coming.
Just another Red Shirt
2023-12-28 23:02:44 +0000 UTCAlso, the series seems to show the first officer is often the guy in charge of discipline and keeping the crew in line.
Joe Concepts
2023-12-28 22:11:37 +0000 UTCI have long thought the same about the flipping of the Klingons and Romulans, James.
Collin Freeman
2023-12-28 22:09:35 +0000 UTCYes indeed.
Collin Freeman
2023-12-28 22:08:43 +0000 UTCThey do manage to make the Romulans a little less comic book a few seasons in, but yeah totally agree
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2023-12-28 21:28:23 +0000 UTC“We are back!” is the right kind of comic-book moment, very much like “You have not heard the last of Baltar!” I think the Klingons and Romulans were definitely “flipped” for this series, since the Romulans used to be the ones with a strict code of honor and the Klingons were the pure villains who couldn’t be trusted an inch. Now we have Worf saying the Romulans are without honor.
James H
2023-12-28 21:20:49 +0000 UTCIt's the "to make an omelette you have to break some eggs" philosophy of species social development.
Jovet
2023-12-28 19:40:22 +0000 UTCOh yeah, forgot earth somehow had another dark age yet still managed to progress back to this far advanced point in just a couple centuries. Still not sure how that makes sense but maybe they’ll go more into it eventually.
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-12-28 19:37:28 +0000 UTCGreat reaction guys. I never thought the first season was "bad", just clunky like all first seasons of every show are. Season 2 is not bad at all, in fact it has a few very good episodes that start defining the series as a whole. And like most episodes, this one had more than one subplot going that enhanced the main one. As far as the 3 people who were brought back to life...they are not mentioned again in the rest of the series. Which is sad, for I always thought that the financier would have made a great ambassador or negotiator for the Federation, especially if he were assigned to the Ferengi. But I think there is a book that he is one of the main characters in, in a capacity of negotiator or something. Keep up the great reactions!
Monty Crawford
2023-12-28 19:25:58 +0000 UTC...spoilers...
Jovet
2023-12-28 18:45:27 +0000 UTC11:30 Nope. In the trial that Q setup in the first episode, we learn enough about subsequent Earth history to know that law firm would not still be around. ("...Kill all the lawyers...")
Jovet
2023-12-28 18:34:35 +0000 UTC9:55 ROTFL! "Kentucky Fried Steak" (You mean Kansas City steak... yum!)
Jovet
2023-12-28 18:31:00 +0000 UTC8:05 I think the formerly-wealthy guy had his introspective moment because the three of them are in the same boat (literally and figuratively) and he made the lady cry.
Jovet
2023-12-28 18:29:36 +0000 UTC6:28 I'm pretty sure you're talking about when Picard ordered hailing frequencies opened, and Worf protested. The Romulans weren't on the viewscreen yet, obviously. I'm pretty sure that Riker was justified in his glare at Worf because he'd not seen Worf not follow orders before.
Jovet
2023-12-28 18:27:13 +0000 UTCI loved the tense music starting a few minutes before the Romulans showed up and lasting throughout the encounter
Doug
2023-12-28 17:41:10 +0000 UTCLast few months have been wild. The deeper analysis of each episode and watching together in person has made the experience very different. Excited to continue
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-12-28 17:38:14 +0000 UTCBut who destroyed the outpost? You will find out
Mark
2023-12-28 17:37:46 +0000 UTCYou know I don't like when people say that. Day of the Dove and Errand of Mercy are actually full of background for the Klingons, it's just not in your face. We get a lot of subtle detail from both Kor and Mara in each episode on what the relations between the Federation and Klingons are really like. Same for the Romulans, Between Balance of Terror and Enterprise Incident we are gifted quite a lot of seeds. The writers of TNG and DS9 were big TOS fans, and it shows when the legacy alien races are brought in.
Steven Johnson
2023-12-28 17:34:55 +0000 UTCSecond half of the first season of TNG features a lot of subtle course corrections going on. They get rid of Denise Crosby (at her wish, sadly) and move Worf to her spot. They bring back the Klingons, and start dropping more references to the Romulans when the Ferengi basically shit the bed. You guys had quite a positive reaction to the show, and that's great. I was not expecting it to go that way at all. It seems like just yesterday we were doing the live stream and the hype was quite real to see what came. I don't care whether you guys love or hate something, I just appreciate seeing it through your eyes.
Steven Johnson
2023-12-28 17:33:40 +0000 UTCThe Romulans are back! They are just the adversary the show needed. Romulans and Klingons may have originated on TOS, but TNG actually turns them into fascinating and multi-faceted characters.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2023-12-28 17:07:08 +0000 UTCNot every plot point comes up again later. All we can say is...wait and see.
KatWithAttitude
2023-12-28 17:02:05 +0000 UTCTo be fair, Data didn't want to fire. Data just said "IF the premise that they are hostile is true, THEN the course of action would be sound". Implying that he does not have enough data to determine if the premise is true. And Geordi wasn't at all sure, he just didn't know what the Romulans would want if they were NOT hostile. Basically only Riker and Worf were on the side to attack, and when Worf wanted to not even talk to them, even Riker looked at him funny.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-12-28 16:57:46 +0000 UTCAs you know, I love continuity. It rewards the devoted viewer. As far as breadcrumb plot elements, you will definitely see a lot more of them in TNG than you ever did in TOS or TAS. However, you may have to wait awhile before they get around to addressing them, more so than the Coming of Age and Conspiracy tie-in.
Collin Freeman
2023-12-28 16:56:10 +0000 UTCGreat work guys.
Just another Red Shirt
2023-12-28 16:50:40 +0000 UTCI was never one of the people who thought season 1 was bad, I think I had four episodes I didn’t like that well but they were still good.
Thicketdweller
2023-12-28 16:46:04 +0000 UTCIf Season 1 did nothing else, it expanded the universe and set the ground work for a lot of exceptional Trek to come. Season 2 still has its misses but the good episodes are really strong.
Stephen Wright
2023-12-28 16:39:41 +0000 UTC
