FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S1E24 - We'll Always Have Paris
Added 2023-12-21 16:49:12 +0000 UTC
Comments
Well, if computers and networks can know every little bit about our lives TODAY, I'm sure the Enterprise computer have Picard ID'ed as a heterosexual.
Joe Concepts
2023-12-24 18:48:56 +0000 UTCWhat's really unfortunate and annoying in retrospect is that the holodeck waiter immediately assumes the person Picard stood up was a woman. It would have been much better if he had referred to "your young person" instead. (I can't quote the exact dialogue because the script available on Star Trek Minutiae is farther removed from the finished episode than usual, including Jenice being named "Laura".)
Anthony Bernacchi
2023-12-24 18:36:19 +0000 UTCMy favorite scene was a Data stunt double jumping behind a wall and Brent Spiner jumping in with a phaser. The timing was sooo close..
Badger
2023-12-23 04:31:36 +0000 UTCFor the vast majority of sci-fi shows up to the time of TNG, I would agree that the sci-fi plot would generally take precedence over character arcs. But TNG clearly pioneered the gradual shift towards focusing on character arcs that is so commonplace today. This episode in particular is an early example of placing that character focus in the forefront of the narrative, even if the show was still hedging its bets by somewhat awkwardly trying to make it fit with the sci-fi aspect.
Patrick47
2023-12-23 03:39:43 +0000 UTCYeah the Netflix pauses drive me insane. I’m usually too lazy to pull the blu rays off the shelf but i might need to dust them off.
Jon1701
2023-12-22 16:06:33 +0000 UTCI always wondered if Tasha was going to play the fencing scene originally rather than Ensign no name but I just looked up the final draft on line and it was supposed to be Riker! Wonder what happened there.
Jon1701
2023-12-22 16:01:54 +0000 UTCMerry Christmas!
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-12-22 14:53:01 +0000 UTCThis is a typical first season episode that fits into the "meh" category. Not bad by any means, but not great either. In fact, this is probably the first "average" episode after a string of memorable entries that came late in the shows first year - "Coming of Age", "Heart of Glory", "Arsenal of Freedom", "Symbiosis" & "Skin of Evil". While it has a nice atmospheric feel to it, there isn't anything particularly noteworthy about it either. It's not helped that guest star Michelle Phillips of the 60's pop group "The Mamas & Papas" has little chemistry with Patrick Stewart. Their scenes don't land due to the fact Phillips and Stewart don't spark like they should. In fact, you find yourself wondering how these two were ever involved with each other to begin with since they have litle in common.
William McRae
2023-12-22 14:46:57 +0000 UTCI thought the acting was fine, but with the exception of Gates (and I’m not sure that counts) I rarely bought the romantic chemistry between Patrick Stewart and any potential leading lady. As opposed to Jonathan Frakes who basically has chemistry with any woman he shares the screen with. Jmho 😊
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2023-12-22 14:43:10 +0000 UTCMerry Christmas, Alex & Josh. Really enjoying your reactions to TNG season 1 (admittedly much more than watching it myself back in the day). Josh's recall of ST episodes is scary in how quickly and how much detail he can remember. He should be ready to go up against Mike Stoklasa in RLM's Trek Challenge before long.
Numinous2019
2023-12-22 13:25:00 +0000 UTCPicard and Beverley is complex just as Riker and Troi is complex, and I believe for story reasons it is convenient for both couples to have a past but a vague status on the show. I don't mind it. On Space 1999 you had a married couple at the centre and it seemed that every other episode there was an existential crisis for the commander relating to his relationship.
Paul Rymer
2023-12-22 11:25:49 +0000 UTCI never knew that but it makes perfect sense now from the external views of the ship. I've only been watching since '87...
Paul Rymer
2023-12-22 11:19:28 +0000 UTCI had never heard of this before lol. Thank you
James Bottas
2023-12-22 08:07:39 +0000 UTC8:30 Oh, I dunno. The scene where Picard enters sick bay and starts to speak, and Jenice turns around and sees for sure who it is and says "Jean-Luc!" and Dr. Bevery's head turns around so fast... I found that great!! LOL!
Jovet
2023-12-22 07:13:31 +0000 UTC5:00 That room is properly called the Observation lounge, and it's directly behind the computer terminals at the rear of the Bridge.
Jovet
2023-12-22 07:07:40 +0000 UTCYeah, that dress was really something!! Definitely lives up to the Theiss Titillation Theory.
Jovet
2023-12-22 07:03:38 +0000 UTC4:10 I disagree, guys. The "romance stuff" I found was written quite well. Both people obviously still care about each other and regret how things turned out, but they both have also moved on with their lives. And they both got some closure that Picard denied 22 years ago. I'm surprised they didn't write Manheim as getting at least a bit jealous but perhaps he just had other things on (or out of) his mind to worry about. I think this story is written just fine.
Jovet
2023-12-22 07:03:17 +0000 UTCI've never really stopped to analyze the writing to discern an "A story" and a "B story" before. I guess I just don't care. The show is the show.
Jovet
2023-12-22 06:59:28 +0000 UTCI thought their chemistry was fine! She did a good job. Rod Loomis was also really good as Manheim.
Jovet
2023-12-22 06:58:10 +0000 UTCC'mon man, she can't hold a candle to Minuet. ;)
JD Nevesytrof
2023-12-22 06:40:25 +0000 UTCI believe the ship is designed to hold thousands of additional people in relative comfort should something like a planetary evacuation be required. It just makes sense to concentrate most people in the most vital areas in normal operation, though.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-12-22 06:39:41 +0000 UTCAs I recall, they made use of 'blueprints' that were made by some of the technical graphics artists of the show, and are 'generally' considered "accurate". The video on youtube is titled "the enterprise is insanely huge". It's worth a look.
Terrafan
2023-12-22 05:23:33 +0000 UTCThanks Mark
Collin Freeman
2023-12-22 04:40:12 +0000 UTCI watch on Paramount+ and as soon as I get it synced within the first few seconds, it stays good all the way through til the end.
Tristan Rose
2023-12-22 04:18:29 +0000 UTCDo they take into account in their calculations that some of the decks might be mostly stuff that make the ship work (engine connectors, ship's equivalent to a server, etc) where you may only be able to fit one or two people at a time? Just wondering.
CM Waters
2023-12-22 03:51:12 +0000 UTCYou're watching from a disc. I'm watching from Netflix - the pauses between commercial breaks are not the same for both.
Glenner7
2023-12-22 03:36:45 +0000 UTCWe have the episode paused at 0:00 and then hit play
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-12-22 02:58:02 +0000 UTCI am in love with the hologram in the pink outfit. I will not be taking questions at this time.
James Bottas
2023-12-22 02:48:22 +0000 UTC“There’s a thousand people on here.” - I recall seeing something in which someone did a deep dive into the size of the Enterprise D and concluded that with only about 1,000 people aboard, if they were evenly distributed around the ship, you would be lucky to run into anyone else ever. So with those crowded corridors, it means that the entire crew usually hangs out in relatively small parts of the ship, and the rest of it is like a ghost town.
Aramis Calcutt
2023-12-22 02:35:15 +0000 UTCThe travesty of the Federation running a tunnel underneath the Eiffel Tower. Sacrilege!
Aramis Calcutt
2023-12-22 02:23:59 +0000 UTCI guess it was out of frustration due to the Tasha thing, but I love when you guys get sassy to the commenters who repeat themselves and there was definitely more than usual in the reaction and discussion. It must get old fast hearing people telling you the Nurse Chapel/computer voice thing in probably every YouTube video. Or being told the life story of the guy who made a matte painting in the background for an episode. I can relate and please don't stop.
THE LORE!!!
2023-12-22 01:42:01 +0000 UTCThe story is John Pike, then President of Paramount made the final decision on Patrick Stewart as Picard, who made his final reading with his toupee. After seeing the other finalist, Pike chose Stewart and famously said, "Go with the Englishman, but, tell him to lose the wig."
Mark Chrisco
2023-12-22 01:26:41 +0000 UTCI'm using a ps5 like them, might be nice to get an official guide when and where to press play from
SinocTheHodgeheg
2023-12-22 01:02:05 +0000 UTCYour comments about the toupee triggered a memory: Patrick Stewart actually did most of his auditions in a toupee at the request of casting, but when they were finally ready to offer him the role, Rick Berman (I think) told him to just forget it and ditch the toupee.
Collin Freeman
2023-12-22 00:54:46 +0000 UTCI wouldn't say zero, but it definitely was not up to the level it needed to be. I think part of that was the writing. Stewart did an excellent job in the scene in the briefing room, though.
Collin Freeman
2023-12-22 00:42:04 +0000 UTCIt’s interesting seeing these guys struggling a bit with the episodic format (with bits of continuing continuity sprinkled throughout) … I’m guessing its a generation thing and it still feels foreign to them as they are used to serialized stories
Derek Orr
2023-12-22 00:39:11 +0000 UTCThe different perspectives on what is the A story vs B story is fascinating to me. I feel like myself and some others are clearly in the camp of the sci fi thing/action/problem of the week IS the A story…and character stuff is usually the B story and definitely was in this episode for myself and others. While the “other side” apparently finds the A story to be the Picards old girlfriend thing🤷♂️
Derek Orr
2023-12-21 23:45:11 +0000 UTCThat little Riker reaction shot was one of the few instances that they could not locate the 35mm film when they did the HD remaster. You will see these rarely in the future.
Mike Rogers
2023-12-21 23:25:20 +0000 UTCOne of the things about episodic TV is that who's to say the next episode takes place a day or months after the previous. But without giving way to much, Tasha Yar is remembered in the future of the series.
Mike Rogers
2023-12-21 23:16:01 +0000 UTCAgain, I’ve always loved Michelle Philips but she has zero chemistry with Patrick Stewart. IMHO
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2023-12-21 23:13:28 +0000 UTCI suspect that would have been a progressive-twist too far for audiences of the day. Gene wasn't even ready for a Captain with no hair.
StonyD
2023-12-21 20:47:15 +0000 UTCWouldn't this be the very first time it's openly admitted to on the show? Besides their drunk moment in the drunk episode. They were drunk. This is the first open declaration that one has feelings for the other if I remember correctly
StonyD
2023-12-21 20:44:34 +0000 UTCRewatching this I just thought for a second, what if Picard's lost love had turned out to be Dr. Manheim?
Joe Concepts
2023-12-21 20:37:00 +0000 UTCI will say that this episode IS noteworthy in at least one respect: There is a tone to Next gen going Forward that starts in this ep where there's something affecting the ship and a complete tone is created where the audience is just waiting for the next time it appears. Multiple episodes a season over the course of the next 6 years there are times when it feels EXACTLY just as odd and creepy as when the two versions of characters were in and out of the turbolift. Next Gen does this better than all of the other Trek series imho.
Michael Nemo
2023-12-21 20:21:31 +0000 UTCI dunno, I go through the Manheim effect every time I have to adjust to keep the two videos in sync!
Glenner7
2023-12-21 19:53:22 +0000 UTCI agree that this is a mixed bag of an episode. The character stuff between Picard and Janice is FAR more interesting than the time plot. The biggest problem I really had was that ending scene in the holodeck seemed like it needed a couple few minutes to bake.
Ca$hWednesday
2023-12-21 19:01:36 +0000 UTCI was talking to Andreas in the Discord about this, and honestly I agree insofar that the script written makes Beverly come off as a jealous highschooler instead of a mature, professional mother and widow who's known this guy personally for decades and has had a long time to process her feelings.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-12-21 18:50:24 +0000 UTCThe funny thing is you guys might be tired of the multiverse concept NOW, but back when this episode aired, it was brand spanking new and far, far from being an overused concept. Ironically it's like "Casablanca", every other line in that movie is a cliche now but back then it was brand new, super clever dialogue.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-12-21 18:15:51 +0000 UTCThey didn’t explore any of that in the episode though. We get one scene thrown in that doesn’t add much and to me came off as “I can’t compete with this other woman” which is an attitude I didn’t buy from her character. I can agree “gross” was probably a bit strong of a word for it. I would compare how they treated it here vs Riker’s jealousy in Haven where it was much better handled imo.
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-12-21 18:08:44 +0000 UTCI have no idea why people say the strike happened at the end of season 2, the dates aren't exactly secret, the writers striked from March 7th to August 7th 1988 and the start of season 2 was delayed by 2 months to late November leading to a shortened episode order of 22 episodes for season 2. It's also well documented that the last few episodes of season 1 suffered from unfinished scripts that had to be used without further revisions and at the start of season 2 they dusted of an old Star Trek Phase 2 script and rushed it into production after a quick rewrite.
Phillip Grischa
2023-12-21 17:49:53 +0000 UTCGreat to see these early. Going on holidays break? :) I must admit I don't understand what about Beverly's reaction you found 'gross'. And I didn't feel she was jealous as such. She had something potential with Picard and she knows something real can't really compete with a ghost from the past. So she's a bit sad about it but she just lets it go. But isn't she allowed to feel a bit sad when she's interested in someone and then an old flame of theirs shows up? You said Picard showing emotions makes him more human, why not the same for Beverly? She's been a single mom for a long time, can't she long for some romance in her life? Especially since that's already difficult enough, being in Starfleet and raising a son on her own?
Andreas Schmitt
2023-12-21 17:41:26 +0000 UTCThe writers strike impacted the end of this season. It lasted long enough that the second season was delayed and because of that it’s a shorter season (you can only hold actors schedules for so long).
Stuart Arbury
2023-12-21 17:09:57 +0000 UTCRe: whiplash- these episodes were designed to be shuffled like a deck of cards, aired at all different times. The continuity is loose but no, this isn’t “Skin of Evil Part 2”.
Stuart Arbury
2023-12-21 17:09:06 +0000 UTCYou’re almost through season one! Man this is flying by!
Stuart Arbury
2023-12-21 17:07:50 +0000 UTC
