UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TOS - The Empath S3E12
Added 2023-03-13 02:17:13 +0000 UTCThis may have been the most frustrating experience we have had watching Star Trek so far!
Here is our full uncut reaction to The Empath. Very interested to hear what you think about the episode and about our thoughts and reaction. It's a unique one for sure.
It seems that uploading directly to Patreon caused some slight annoyances for some Patrons, and since there isn't really any benefit to it, we are going to continue using YouTube moving forward.
Thank you for being a Patron & enjoy!
Comments
There are some interesting ideas here, but like so many TOS episodes, it really lacks in execution. This whole idea that when aliens get advanced enough they circle back to being savages that torture people has always seemed pretty cheap to me. But the big problem I have is that even if Gem decided to sacrifice herself to save McCoy, what does that prove about her species? Just because she's selfless doesn't mean most of her people aren't assholes. This probably would have worked better in TAS as there wasn't enough to justify a 50 minute runtime.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-05-01 01:51:31 +0000 UTCNahh... Miri was a GEM compared to this... Gem. Nyaahh-nyaahh-nya-nya-nyaahh...
MertzRocks
2023-06-21 08:04:10 +0000 UTCwhen gem touches Spock and feels the pain that Spock endures living everyday as he battles his alien and human half. it pays off later when Spock touches a wounded McCoy, I feel so much has to be spelled out for modern audiences, Star Trek Picard does that in spades with its awful writing
Scarpad’s Domain
2023-04-18 03:41:48 +0000 UTCA alien from another planet willing to give its life to heal McCoy at the cost of its own life is very Star Trek
Scarpad’s Domain
2023-04-18 03:16:16 +0000 UTCI have relatives who were Vians.
Trevacious
2023-04-01 00:19:24 +0000 UTCso, so, so, slow. If they added crying children it would have been like a trip to the dentist.
PFCoffey
2023-03-15 03:00:13 +0000 UTCTypical not so good 3rd season episode whose script could have been given a few more run thru's by the production staff. Loved the comment on Shatner's pronunciation of "offense". You missed his take on "sabotaaage" in the last ep. Best part was Shatner's toupee getting a workout in the wind.
Stardate 1312.4
2023-03-13 18:29:13 +0000 UTCThat's probably why this is one of DeForest Kelley's favorite episodes. He had fun acting all beat up :D
Andreas Schmitt
2023-03-13 17:34:49 +0000 UTCBones was the highlight of this episode starting with another of his iconic "I'm a Doctor not a.... coal miner." To his being absolutely savage with his hypospray to both Kirk and Spock plus as we saw in For the World is Hollow and I have Touched the Sky he plays being sick well.
Brad Barter
2023-03-13 16:26:55 +0000 UTC"design" ? Ride. Not design. My brain. You'd think this episode is a sign of the lower budget, but given just the sheer "design" they were going for here I think it works visually quite well. They reused the planet set very nicely, and the various lab interiors were a good rearrangement of props. Matt Jefferies who designed The Enterprise, Klingon Battle Cruiser, all of the Enterprise interiors, also did a lot of work on set design. His touch is felt all over the show, and he knew that he had to make it work on a budget. His designs had to be simple and quick to produce. Not to spoil anything, but one interesting tid bit is we are going to get both "Batgirl" and "The Riddler" from the Adam West's Batman in episodes to come. Both of those episodes are some of my favorite Season 3 episodes.
Steven Johnson
2023-03-13 13:28:03 +0000 UTCClearly this is the best episode of the series. I don't know what you guys are talking about. Yeah, I seldom rewarch this one. Just the title alone, even before that word got overused. Next episode, ironically, is "The Narcissist." As to the name The Empath, it's uh... Yeah the word is ruined for me too. I had one too many girlfriends tell me they were "empaths" and it always ended up being used to put down people around them for "not feeling like I do." I do like the next one. There's a couple good ones left yet. Certainly campy and entertaining... Not this one. I know some people hold this one in high regard, but... Not this guy. Coming up on the end of the line, guys. It's been a Helluva design, and it's been a privledge to take it with you.
Steven Johnson
2023-03-13 13:21:39 +0000 UTCTo be honest, The Empath literally makes me fall asleep whenever I try to watch it. The only way I can make it through fully conscious is to watch it with someone else and continuously critique it. I think the Vians must have used their slow-motion-ray projector on the entire episode. Beautiful score, but all the better to put you to sleep with.
James H
2023-03-13 13:15:04 +0000 UTCI just read that this was one of DeForest Kelley's favorite episodes. He certainly got a lot of scenes in this one :) Kelley: "I thought it was so dramatically done. The entire stage was blacked out in black curtains, and everything was done in 'pen spots'. It was so unique in production values and the cinematography on it." Guest star Kathryn Hays recalled in an interview, "I’ve often thought that was an interesting role for me to play. I loved playing that. It was technically very interesting. That show was fascinating to work on from a technical point of view. It was so different from a regular show." Guest star Alan Bergmann said, "Given the minimal sets and the ludicrous pajama-like costumes of the regulars, the episode was quite successful in text and production." Writer Joyce Muskat said, "When I saw it, there were a lot of changes. But the storyline of Gem learning something is the same, and the idea of the stark setting and four characters interacting was still there. So I couldn't find fault with it. I was very satisfied." Apparently Joyce was one of the few fans of the show that managed to sell them a script.. I guess it shows that she was an amateur writer. But usually that wasn't a problem, since the production team was able to adapt rough scripts. This one needed a bit more work I guess. But hey, the writer seemed to be happy with what they did with it, so there's that ;)
Andreas Schmitt
2023-03-13 13:07:24 +0000 UTCAnd I'll say it again: Not even remotely as bad as Miri ;) ;)
Andreas Schmitt
2023-03-13 12:58:49 +0000 UTCI guess the short version is: This script had the elements that someone like Gene would have liked, but it needed Gene's hand in polishing it and making the final screenplay great. I read a few details on the first drafts of episodes like The Corbomite Maneuver and Where No Man Has Gone Before, and the first drafts of those had the exact same problems. Bad pacing, characters that didn't quite work yet, some character dynamics not being there, some scenes stretching too much, the real drama only happening at the end instead of building properly. These seem to be signs every time of them not having the money or time to properly re-write and polish a script, but being forced to film an earlier draft that isn't quite there yet. While I liked the episode, I can agree that it really did a bit more work and that it could have been fantastic if that had happened. Especially since this was primed for having great moments between the big three. Especially the empath needed a do-over, giving the actress more to work with.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-03-13 12:46:23 +0000 UTCMaybe some people, but I think most Trekkies are more than aware that every single one of the shows has its stinker episodes. That was just the nature of TV back then. They had to fill a season and when you get only so many scripts because its hard to find writers (or sometimes you have a strike of the writer's guild or stuff like that), there's only so much you can do. That's why I prefer the shorter streamlined seasons of modern streaming shows. But I really can't think of a single Star Trek show where every single episode was fantastic. It's the average and the absolute gem episodes that make these shows special. AND that even in the worst episodes, there's still the characters that you love that make it not completely horrible. That's the problem with the newer shows. They are better produced and on average have a much higher quality, but they get the characters and world and mood completely wrong. I have never taken offense at you not liking any episode, because there sure as hell are episodes across the shows that I can't stand haha. But that doesn't diminish my love for Trek in the least. And as you said several times: You get frustrated at bad episodes now because you KNOW how good the show can be when it gets it right.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-03-13 12:41:47 +0000 UTCNo nothing that bad, but people are very protective of this show and it has been a while since we’ve had an episode where we tear it apart as much as this one so just wanted to give a reminder not to take it personal. People still will though lol.
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-03-13 12:33:21 +0000 UTCI'm currently listening to an audiobook talking about the production of the show. And while I'm currently only at the first season, it seems very clear that they had a massive problem finding good writers. Most writers in hollywood were used to writing for cop shows or lawyer shows or westerns. Most of them were English majors and have no scientific background whatsoever and were completely overwhelmed by the need to write a story that made sense in this world AND stay true to already established characters. Gene Roddenberry and others had to do massive re-writes on almost all the scripts. There were only some notable exceptions like D.C. Fontana who chose that pen name because the network didn't think a female writer name would look good in the credits of a show like this, that people just didn't expect to see "Dorothy" as the writer on screen. They sometimes got great Sci Fi writers but most of those didn't have any experience writing screenplays. And regarding the overacting like it's a play... remember that this is what most actors were doing most of their time. Shatner was also classically shakesperian trained. If you learned how to be an actor, you learned how to be a stage actor. TV wasn't that big yet. So sometimes they cast people that mostly did stage work. And back then TV was not so established yet, so much was treated like it was a stageplay. The Star Trek producers wanted this to be different, more cinematic, more movie like... but I guess it just didn't work all the time. They didn't have the pool of good writers, actors and directors that "got" this show. It was THAT new and unusual at the time. I can imagine that some writers and actors, and directors even, had a hard time to get into this world and understand the rules of this universe and what makes sense and what doesn't. It's probably not such a big deal to you guys, but remember that at the time... even doors that open when you approach them, like on the Enterprise, didn't exist yet. Neither did e-books, reading stuff on screen, video calls, personal computers for that matter. Let alone laser guns, transporters and all that other sci fi stuff. Anybody working on an episode that didn't have a technical or scientific background probably had no idea what they were going for and all this sounded crazy. (which it actually wasn't. The show contracted scientists that specialized in predicting future technology, so Star Trek showing tech that we now take for granted was not by accident. They had specialists who predicted what direction technology was most likely going to develop into. But to any normie in hollywood, this was all completely crazy stuff. Gene Roddenberry often could only use the basic premise of a story idea and then had to rewrite a lot of it so it would make sense in the universe and for the characters. And seeing how he wasn't involved that much anymore in the third season, I guess that was missing sometimes.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-03-13 12:31:29 +0000 UTCI liked the episode. Not one of my favorites, but I liked the emotions in it, and the empath worked for me. Btw.. why do you keep saying "it's ok to disagree with us" so intensely recently? Have you gotten THAT much bad backlash? If so, are you deleting that? I've actually never seen openly hostile reactions to you not liking an episode yet?
Andreas Schmitt
2023-03-13 12:19:16 +0000 UTCSame :) I enjoy this one. There are some awkwardly shot scenes in there though :) But yes, not even close to the worst episode. But I like these quiet character studies and I'm not as bothered by weird shots :)
Andreas Schmitt
2023-03-13 12:17:00 +0000 UTCA good episode, though it looks to me like some Outer Limits aliens were visiting a Lost in Space set. I love the hypo scene, but some things could have been explained better, like how Gem is to save her people, why the aliens are so shitty, and how Kirk talks them down so easily. The writing could have been stronger, but I still like it just fine, unlike a few others we'll get to shortly.
deconstructionist66
2023-03-13 07:04:19 +0000 UTCTerrible terrible episode.
Michael Nemo
2023-03-13 05:42:12 +0000 UTCThe episode just downright sucks. There were no good moments, there was nothing interesting to think about, it was visually and verbally dull, it just sucks. I wish there was some way to have convinced you to skip it you but you had to learn the hard way. I watched this just now because I feel I must have done something this year I need punishment for, so now I hopefully have suffered sufficiently. The next episode is okay I guess, maybe, but it probably hasn't aged well with dialogue that would never be approved today, if I remember it correctly.
Ken R
2023-03-13 05:37:27 +0000 UTCI like some of the interactions between the big 3, but other than that, this was never one of my favorite episodes for some of the reasons already stated. It feels slow and stretched. The score, while nice enough at first, repeats itself and becomes grating after a while. The Vians' plan doesn't make a lot of sense to me. They say they can only save the inhabitants of one planet, and seem to have already decided that Gem's race is probably the most worthy to be saved, so why is it so important that Gem successfully absorbs the new traits (will to live, self-sacrifice, etc.) from the Enterprise crew before her people are rescued? Can't they be taught these things later when they are no longer in danger? I agree that the story had potential, but the script needed a bit more polishing. Regarding Gem, her race had no vocal cords, so while she could hear what was being said, she wouldn't have been able to understand them since her race probably had no concept of verbal communication. Finally, I hope your aversion to the word "empath" fades over time, because one of the main characters in a future Star Trek show is an empath. However, this character only senses others' emotions and doesn't have any healing powers.
David Felgate
2023-03-13 04:56:43 +0000 UTCAs I stated previously the music was a very strong component of this episode and with no dialog from Gem only reactions, emotions and ballet style movements I can only imagine how frustrating it was for the composer watching huge gaps of no sound whatsoever only bodily movement, no drama for the most part, no true fighting or explosions so congrats to whoever did the music and watched it without it would've been even more brutal. Spock in this episode just barely felt like he was there even though he tried to find ways of getting out from underground and did determine how the device was used and how to release the forcefield it didn't feel like he had much to do with this episode at all to where Jim & Bones could've carried the episode themselves and Spock could've remained on the ship. At least that's my opinion. They kept hinting that the star was gonna go nova but other than the solar flares we don't know exactly when it was going to occur, that being said there is an upcoming TOS episode that we will get to see one happen so keep you eyes out for that.
Brad Barter
2023-03-13 04:39:50 +0000 UTCHADIDTED IT........ guessing no one got that "In Living Color" reference. I put this as the second worse ep in the series. You two are dumber after having watched this ep and the entire world is now dumber after being forced to watch you, watch this ep. So........ Thanks! lol (lighten up some of you it was a joke)
Prof Moff
2023-03-13 04:31:54 +0000 UTCThis is one of the most forgettable episodes of Star Trek. I’m not sure I’ve watched this more than once. It’s an amateur script with a stock director that hasn’t done Star Trek. It does inspire some plot points in an episode of a future series.
Jonathan
2023-03-13 04:12:32 +0000 UTCIt is not a great episode. So slow.
Carl Peterson
2023-03-13 04:06:53 +0000 UTCSorry guys,, I couldn't watch this full episode again to see your reaction, I just find it so boring and uninteresting. I will certainly watch your edited YouTube reactions so you get the views and I did watch your episode thoughts at the end...I agree with everything you said. Hang in there, Star Trek does get better again. 😀
Gary Leyh
2023-03-13 04:00:29 +0000 UTCThis is one episode the certainly suffered from the cut budget of the season. They couldn't have a set so they just kept it dark & then that pull away shot at the end I rewrite of the script & a better budget & this episode could've been something
Retro Tom
2023-03-13 03:42:43 +0000 UTCI always liked this episode especially the Spock /McCoy scenes
Scarpad’s Domain
2023-03-13 03:28:06 +0000 UTC
