UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek The Original Series - And the Children Shall Lead S3E4
Added 2023-02-08 17:37:25 +0000 UTCKirk as a babysitter!?
Here is our full uncut reaction to what many have told us is the worst episode of The Original Series - And The Children Shall Lead
Do we agree it's bad? Or do we love it?
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Comments
Such a garbage episode. Objectively probably the worst of the show. I still hate Miri more, but at least that episode had some interesting plot elements going for it. There's just nothing good in this one. I mean I do get a chuckle out of how Scotty says "go away now. Go away or we'll kill ya". It's never even explained how Kirk knew Gorgan's name. I only watched this one for the amusement of your reaction, and because I'm a completionist and don't like skipping even the bad ones. But yeah, this and Miri are the worst of the show.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-04-27 05:55:13 +0000 UTCDammit Jim! (I mean Ken lol) I can still chant that damn thing too!
MertzRocks
2023-06-19 17:56:48 +0000 UTC"Ed Wood-level" PERFECT! I can't put it better.
MertzRocks
2023-06-19 17:55:11 +0000 UTCNO BLAH-BLAH-BLAH!!!
MertzRocks
2023-06-19 17:52:43 +0000 UTCMy list demotes The Empath and Turnabout and promotes Spock's Brain and The Way to Eden. I love that campiness. I put Whom Gods Destroy on a fence between the two lowest tiers leaning toward Fair Enough for Yvonne Craig and no other reason. I'm from the generation that regularly watched Batman as a kid so yeah... crush!! lol
MertzRocks
2023-06-19 17:38:50 +0000 UTClol... I was wavering with "Plato's Stepchildren," and you're probably right.
Tom Occhipinti
2023-02-12 00:09:53 +0000 UTCI have to say, watching "Is There in Truth No Beauty" with the guys today.... I decided that it's better than I remember. The writing is fairly decent.... and it didn't have much cringe factor.
Tom Occhipinti
2023-02-12 00:08:53 +0000 UTCWhom Gods Destroy is like a Batman episode, and Yvonne Craig is super sexy as a prototype Harley Quinn.
deconstructionist66
2023-02-10 15:25:00 +0000 UTCWhom God's Destroy is one of those episodes I would classify as "entertaing" over great. It's so chock-a-block with ham, cheese, and scenery chewing. For that it's worth admission.
Steven Johnson
2023-02-10 08:26:03 +0000 UTCWell, everyone has different opinions. I'd bump several of your "trash" ratings up to "fair enough", and "Whom Gods Destroy" rates near the top of the season for me. While "Plato's Stepchildren" belongs *deep* in the trash pile.
Jeff Cornell
2023-02-10 02:20:47 +0000 UTCNot that anyone asked, but this is how I rate Season 3. TRASH * Spock's Brain * And the Children Shall Lead * Whom Gods Destroy * The Mark of Gideon * That Which Survives * The Lights of Zetar * The Way to Eden * The Cloud Minders * The Savage Curtain ======================= FAIR ENOUGH * Is There in Truth No Beauty? (Upgraded from "Trash," upon rewatching after so many years.) * Plato's Stepchildren * Wink of an Eye * The Empath * Let That Be Your Last Battlefield (People love this one for its messaging, but I find the messaging too overt, and the acting annoying.) * Requiem for Methuselah (To be honest, I don't know if this should be demoted. It's been many decades since I saw this, but my memory of it is that it is respectable enough.) * Turnabout Intruder ======================= BEST OF THE SEASON * The Enterprise Incident * The Paradise Syndrome * Spectre of the Gun (Probably not great, but I always liked this one well enough.) * Day of the Dove * For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky * The Tholian Web * Elaan of Troyius * All Our Yesterdays
Tom Occhipinti
2023-02-10 01:14:09 +0000 UTCKid actors are so annoying you guys are right. Enjoyed the pain on your faces each time they were on screen.
AzoriusMage
2023-02-09 18:41:43 +0000 UTCI like pretty much all of season 3 after this, apart from Plato's Stepchildren (ug) and The Way to Eden (OMG just fucking kill me.)
deconstructionist66
2023-02-09 15:51:32 +0000 UTCI think all of the next five are great, followed by a long drought.
James H
2023-02-09 12:02:26 +0000 UTCJeff Cornell, you are truly a man of good taste and judgment.
Rich Cirivilleri
2023-02-09 11:56:00 +0000 UTCThis I only remember for the chant, which I can still chant to this day. It is pretty bad and a great argument for corporal punishment of children being legally required. Unfortunately the next one isn't great either but then two enjoyable ones are on deck.
Ken R
2023-02-09 05:33:37 +0000 UTCI had not seen this one in 25 years - mid 90s - because it is so bad. It was WORSE than I remembered! I promise, nothing else in season three is nearly as bad as this one.... You get some strange ones in season 3 - maybe eaven a few posters for Alex's closet, but nothing else like this one.
Ricky Johnson
2023-02-09 03:28:18 +0000 UTCYep, this one has no redeeming pieces. There are several of my favorite episodes right around the corner.. Thsnk you for trying to find something good to say
peter spartz
2023-02-09 01:53:20 +0000 UTCThe 2nd Columbo episode was one of the first directing jobs of Steven Spielberg. You would like those, they are drama, mystery and comedy mixed together.
Jonathan
2023-02-09 00:42:02 +0000 UTCThis is the lowest-rated TOS episode on imdb (with a 5.2 out of 10,) but I like it. Pedantic over-explaining dialogue, demon-possessed children, Melvin Belli's Ed Wood-level performance and whipped goop monster makeup, Shatner making ludicrous expressions and overacting, the music full of orchestral stings like a Bugs Bunny cartoon, the bizarre hallucinations and backwards dialogue... this is quite stupefying schlock. Roddenberry approved the story and writer, but had a problem with no one suspecting the kids and thought that half of Melvin's lines should be cut in the editing (they weren't.)
deconstructionist66
2023-02-09 00:20:27 +0000 UTCIt was the time of "quick does anybody have a script for this week's episode, we need to be done by Friday with shooting it". I really do not miss the time of that kind of television. Shows that are properly written in advance and aren't forced to use garbage scripts just to achieve a number to fill the year with episodes are sooooo much better. Considering that this is how it was done it's amazing the Star Trek shows had so many good episodes. We can only be greatful to the good writers that were able to produce so many good scripts in such a short amount of time.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-02-09 00:09:46 +0000 UTCThe kid playing 'kirk' even got Shatner's "pain" acrobatics 100% on point lol
Andreas Schmitt
2023-02-09 00:07:25 +0000 UTCThe Target Audience can relax now as for the remainder of the season no more children will be featured. Am certain this episode helped seal that fate.
Brad Barter
2023-02-09 00:03:18 +0000 UTCit was. That was a really cool show and the main actor is absolutely fantastic. In fact.. if I remember correctly, William Shatner was the bad guy in two episodes :D Maybe you can watch the episodes featuring him hehe
Andreas Schmitt
2023-02-09 00:02:44 +0000 UTCNow that sounds cool!
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-02-09 00:00:47 +0000 UTCFair!
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-02-08 23:59:56 +0000 UTCI was just going to say the eldest red headed child created the instrument composer Jerry Goldsmith included in the soundtrack of Star Trek The Motion Picture. The same instrument was used at the end of V The Final Battle when the self-destruct device was active to destroy Earth as it counted down. Also was going to mention the Asian boy played Ensign Lynd in a later season episode of TNG who took the Conn position.
Brad Barter
2023-02-08 23:59:31 +0000 UTCOh man, you guys should sample an episode of Columbo. Any episode. Maybe one where Shatner or Nimoy plays the murderer.
James H
2023-02-08 22:53:05 +0000 UTCEpisodes like this are also kind of a symptom of the way television was done back then. The scripts weren't written in advance, you were basically shooting an episode in the week that it's going to air, you're constantly doing episodes and if you don't have a good script that week because none came in, nobody had any ready.. well you better make the best with that shitty script you still have in the trash bin, because that's all you got and in 7 days something needs to air. Make it work. I'm glad this kind of TV making is over and TV shows for streaming or other stuff can plan ahead, write things in advance and get it all ready before it's hitting the air. Back then summer breaks between seasons were actual breaks, the cast and crew could finally take a break, because they were working and shooting the episodes as they were being released. And the scripts came in during the season, you were constantly hunting for good ones, sometimes fans or external writers sending you scripts via mail, sometimes they're great, sometimes they need a little work, sometimes your show writers have some ready and sometimes you just have to film that crap that you have lying around because absolutely nobody has anything else and the network is waiting... That's nothing specific to Star Trek, that happened to absolutely every show and it kept so many shows from shining brighter than they did, because they all have those stinkers in the seasons because they just HAD TO fill the year with episodes.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-02-08 22:52:35 +0000 UTCCraig Hundley, who played Tommy, was also Kirk's nephew Peter way back in "Operation Annihilate." As someone else has mentioned, he grew up to invent a musical instrument called the Blaster Beam that he played on the first Star Trek movie soundtrack. Mary was played by Pamelyn Ferdin, who was known in Hollywood casting circles as "the girl who can cry." She had an extensive career in movies and TV as a child and teenager, including a stint as the voice of Lucy van Pelt in Peanuts cartoons. As an adult, she gave up acting and became a nurse. Ferdin and Brian Tochi (Ray) appeared together as teenagers in the Saturday morning show "Space Academy." Tochi has continued acting in adulthood. He played Takashi in the "Revenge of the Nerds" series and appeared in an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation. Mark Robert Brown (Don) only did a little bit more acting. Caesar Belli (Steve, the kid who complained about the ice cream) was Melvin Belli's son and this episode was his entire acting career.
James H
2023-02-08 22:39:26 +0000 UTCI must say I still think Miri is a more annoying episode lol
Andreas Schmitt
2023-02-08 22:03:09 +0000 UTCI always hate this one and skip it. EXCEPT TODAY BAM! This was enjoyable. Watching you guys trying desperately to find something, oh for the love of god ANYTHING, to say positively about it was funny. I was worried that the children were affecting you as I thought we might see a suicide on screen. Oh course I meant your screen as you both took cyanide to end the fist pumps. Actually it was fun to watch your reactions as it meant I didn't have to watch the show very much, not that I missed much lol. Good job
Prof Moff
2023-02-08 21:51:29 +0000 UTCYou ever seen Columbo? It was a detective show based all around the premise of the audience knowing the answer at the start. It actually works really well, mostly by telling the story mainly from the killer's point of view, letting you see exactly how well their lies and alibis manage to explain the established facts, and making you wonder how on earth detective Columbo will find a hole in their story.
Jeff Cornell
2023-02-08 19:08:49 +0000 UTCThank you so much Jonathan for posting that YouTube link. That is so effing funny
Rich Cirivilleri
2023-02-08 19:04:57 +0000 UTCAlso, as an aside and RE: Spocks' Brain. Back in the 90s I used to watch The Wonder Years with my mom. There is an episode where Kevin is having a particular hard time understanding girls, and he has a day dream about Spock's Brain. Period appropriate since the season of the show takes place the same year Season 3 was airing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS3-kbqqR70 Fred Savage does a pretty spot on physical parody of Shatner's performance when being hit with the stun device.
Steven Johnson
2023-02-08 18:48:42 +0000 UTCThis is the first episode with no involvement from the previous production team. The older kid also played Kirk’s nephew in season 1. The Asian kid who I don’t think had lines goes on to play Leonardo in the 90s live action Ninja Turtle movies. This would have been better for the animated series. Shorter episode and dumbed down. Like everybody else this is only my second watch of this one.
Jonathan
2023-02-08 18:48:36 +0000 UTCDid I not tell you? This is the lowest point of TOS. IN my view. It's just so goddamn boring. I never rewatch this episode. I rewatched this episode solely for you guys. There's still a few really great episodes ahead. Day of the Dove, Tholian Web, I have a strong feeling you guys will enjoy Spectre of the Gun, also. This. This is fucking garbage. Really bad.
Steven Johnson
2023-02-08 18:42:07 +0000 UTCI'll watch this tonight with you. As a kid, I remember shrugging, as it was just another episode and nothing that stuck with you. As an adult, it became quite cringeworthy in sections. I didn't find it competely bad, more along the lines of The Deadly Years, not a bad story, but poor execution.
Firekrys FWO
2023-02-08 18:37:53 +0000 UTCOh one more little story. Personal story. I had an ear run-in with Melvin Belli many years ago when I was serving jury duty on the California Superior Court in San Francisco. I asked a security guard if Belli was in the building, And his response was “oh yeah. You always know when he’s in the building, and trust me – you don’t wanna meet him. Or run into him. “Lol!
Rich Cirivilleri
2023-02-08 17:54:39 +0000 UTCGaaah! I don’t think I can watch this one with you guys. I just don’t want that episode in my head ever again. There is some interesting trivia about this episode, however. Melvin Belli, who played Donald Trump… I mean “the Gorgon “, was an infamous San Francisco Showboat attorney and promoter. He was responsible for the infamous 1969 rock concert at Altamont where a man was stabbed to death right in front of Mick Jagger. Along with the Sharon Tate Charles Manson killings, it is credited with bringing the curtain down on what was left of the 1960s flower power rock ‘n’ roll Revolution. Just around the time that he made the “Star Trek “episode, he was involved in the zodiac killings. He was asked by Jim Dunbar, a famous San Francisco DJ who was contacted by the zodiac killer to have Melvin Belli as the intermediary in communication with the police. If you’ve seen the excellent 2009 film “zodiac “, then you remember a scene where Dunbar has a bit of dialogue with Belli “ hey I saw you in that Star Trek episode. You were just wonderful. “Belli responded “ yeah they were all beautiful people. A really beautiful experience. “IMO Belli was awful. I’ve seen all of the raw footage of him from that episode without any audio or video effects, and his performance is beyond belief bad. He didn’t even know his lines he was just making it up as he went along. Kind of like that episode. Just horrible horrible writing. The kids were great though. They were all interviewed in Mark Cushman‘s incredible book about the making of Star Trek and they were quoted saying things like it was really disappointing to actually go on the bridge set and see that it was all just made of wood in real life. The kid who played the eldest boy, Tommy Starnes, has maintained a deep friendship with William Shatner to this very day. Shatner was his mentor and his musical career. He was responsible for the trademark musical effects in Star Trek the motion picture. I’m sure that when Shatner passes, Craig Huntley, who played Tommy Starnes, will certainly be one of the eulogists.
Rich Cirivilleri
2023-02-08 17:51:39 +0000 UTC
