The Walking Dead: S8E15 Worth - First time watching!
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Comments
I always think rick Is the one who started it, because in the past rick has displayed ruthless aggression attitude multiple times. His go-to is it's us vs them, if you not one of us then you don't get to live. This happened in every conflict rick has ever been in, the root of this behavior started when he tricked his best friend Shane into coming back to the farm. Rick had no intention from the very beginning to bring Shane back to the farm, his mind was already turning that he wanted to get this over with. Rick admitted he premeditated Shane's death, so in rick's mind it doesn't matter if Shane had a change of heart or he didn't, it didn't matter if Shane was to follow through with his plan or he didn't have the heart to follow through to killing rick. Killing is always on rick's mind, that is his nature. Rick never came to the conclusion on his own "hm maybe I should let you live despite you not one of us" rick Is more similar to Simon except rick doesn't show pleasure in Killing people but in the words of negan " you are demented broken God damn ghoul" even though negan said that to Simon it also applies to rick grimes. We never physically seen negan do half of the the ruthless things that rick has done and vice-versa rick has never do half of the semi-ruthless things negan has done. But who look more crazy a guy that kills one then spare the rest, use the iron to whoever break the rules, and take other's spouses with consent or a guy that kills hundreds of people without blinking or thinking twice about it and pressured his own group in it's either us or them mentality?
Carl
2023-06-03 17:45:31 +0000 UTCI’m so grateful whenever I see Negan fans acknowledge the fact that he was in fact in the wrong and is to blame for everything. It really doesn’t matter how Rick reacted and lead his group to attack the Saviors in their sleep. Negan and his people have no moral ground to stand on when they were admittedly proud to be going around, forcing entire communities of innocent people to give him their hard earned supplies, because he had the power and entitlement to do so. I hate Negan and can’t fathom how people could possibly be his fan, no matter how “charming” he supposedly is (which I don’t see how cause I hate JDM’s portrayal of him) but to each their own. I just can’t stand when certain Negan d*ck riding fanboys go to extremes to justify literally enslaving people and acting like he isn’t a selfish, narcissistic, and cult driven leader when all that happed against Negan was brought upon himself. Rick even said if it wasn’t him then Negan would have met somehow else like him sooner or later. The back and forth about who started it is completely invalidated by the fact that Negan willingly went around making random innocent survivors his slaves.
Pat McConnell
2023-05-15 03:18:33 +0000 UTCAgreed Tommy, Listen I loveee Negan and I enjoy the Saviors story line. I'm with you and; our people (Rick and co) on this one. As for all the "Negan didn't directly start w/us" peeps....by Negans own definition of the Saviors, "They are ALLLL Negan". Lol yes I'm bein petty but you accurately detailed why even when we were the offense it was still done defensively. Were the actions at the satellite station cool? Hell no but if we were aligning ourselves with Hilltop the enemy of our ally is now our enemy 🤷🏽♀️ sorry not sorry 😉
Katie Young
2023-05-12 05:21:16 +0000 UTCtbf the saviors are the ones who went off on their own and attacked daryl, sasha and abe. Negan wasn't in command of that.
Fresh2000
2023-05-10 01:12:30 +0000 UTCi dont agree he kills them for no reason, he kills one person in a group to keep the rest of the group in line. So they can take over communties and substain themselves. Its morally messed up but it makes sense in terms of survival. The only thing negan does completely out of left field that can't be justified at all is the whole wives thing.
Fresh2000
2023-05-10 01:11:09 +0000 UTCi mean killing one is pretty reasonable when he could kill more or kill all of their fighters right from the start to take over. The only thing I'd say negan does that can't be justified is the wives thing but everything else has a logical reasoning.
Fresh2000
2023-05-10 01:09:19 +0000 UTCIirc I don’t think it’s ever stated how negan knew the attack was Alexandria my best bet is that Dwight told negan of his encounter with Daryl and how he claimed to be from another community plus with the group who was looking for Dwight also saw Daryl Sasha and Abraham. Must’ve guessed that there community might be nearby where Dwight and Daryl initially met plus there are road signs that say homes in Alexandria so they might’ve gone scouting for it. also to point out hilltop had no guns, so it’s pretty obvious it wasn’t them.
Richard Ortega
2023-05-10 00:29:31 +0000 UTCDo we know how negan found out about the satellite outpost attack let alone which community had done the dead? I don't think we ever found out how they made that connection? You would think it would be considered that hill top made that connection? Or maybe they thought that the people who are at ocean side came back for vengeance... unless the people who take carol and Maggie were able to make a radio call to the sanctuary how would they know that it was alexandria to begin with?
Angelina Sargent
2023-05-10 00:19:23 +0000 UTCI'm glad you aren't using this argument to defend Negan's actions. It always shocks me how some people genuinely think he's no worse than Rick. Regardless of who hit first, Negan had already enslaved multiple communities and killed people brutally just to scare them into compliance. Rick never did any of that. It seems clear to me that not ALL of the saviors are bad people, but I still feel that our group was justified in taking out the satellite outpost in S6 given what they saw/heard. With that said, I love that there are layers to Negan as a character. He seems to genuinely believe that he's the answer and that his tyranny saves lives. I suppose he at least values human life unlike Simon.
Joshua Markham
2023-05-10 00:00:08 +0000 UTCWith ''Encounter two'' The Saviors were planning on stealing their stuff and killing one, or more, of them. Daryl was retaliating, in self defence, when he killed them. This is not our group being ''the aggressor'' as you put it. The opposite is true, with or without Negan's involvement. The Saviors did this, not Daryl. The satellite attack was ill-thought out, but it was in response to Daryl being stopped on the road, and the news that the Saviors were taking resources from Hilltop, threatening them and had murdered people. The attack was certainly morally questionable on ''our'' part, but they were still retaliating to what they viewed as a bigger, evil, threat. It doesn't matter whether Negan intentionally sent his men to kill them or not, the point being made in the counter argument is that Rick, or his group, did not instigate any of it. The Saviors were killing people, taking goods, using communities as resources and abusing their power, long before Rick and co. showed up.
Tommy Thompson
2023-05-09 23:14:07 +0000 UTCHere is a explanation for people who think Negan started this and not rick. Encounter one with the saviors: Daryl Abraham Sasha encounter a road block meant to be for Dwight because him and Sherry stole medicine for Sherry's sister who is sick. Our crew gets caught in the crossfire because either A the savior group thinks they have the medicine or B they think they are with Dwight Encounter two: After the first encounter with the saviors looking for Dwight Abraham Sasha and Daryl run into a biker gang who are apart of the saviors the bikers threaten to kill Abraham but are promptly blown to ashes by Daryl with a RPG, it is important to note that Negan did not send these saviors to Alexandria suppose they were just on a run or something because when Negan takes the guns from Alexandria he says "Wait you are the guys who took out the dick brigade" or something along those lines when he finds the RPG Satellite attack: Rick makes a deal with Gregory for half of hilltops food to take out Negan who at that time thought the only base was the Satellite outpost Rick and Co sneak in and slit almost everyone's throat in the middle of the night. also to take note from this neither group knew of each others existence at this time Encounter three: Carol encounters Hiro and his men when she runs away from Alexandria and she kills all but one who would be taken out by Morgan. THIS IS THE ONLY TIME when Negan sends his men to intentionally go to Alexandria for retaliation for the Satellite outpost attack we know this because he says when the group is on there knees "When I sent my people to kill your people for killing my people, you killed more of my people." NOTE: this is not to defend Negan's or his men's action, just stating facts that our group is the aggressor here
Richard Ortega
2023-05-09 22:45:45 +0000 UTCsame
jeendus
2023-05-09 22:45:03 +0000 UTCYes, and then there's the whole if you followed the Saviors from the beginning Rick would be the villain. No. If I was a Savior I'd be looking over my shoulder the entire time, there is no way they didn't know they were on the wrong side.
Carrie Petty
2023-05-09 22:25:51 +0000 UTCWaiting for you guys to upload the finale!!! I hope I can watch it before I go to bed 😏
Miss Buji
2023-05-09 22:24:42 +0000 UTCNice Angie, I couldn't agree more. I've heard people say, "he was only going to kill one, he only kills one when getting a new group inline". As if that's not reason enough right there to eliminate him and anyone who supports him.
Carrie Petty
2023-05-09 22:24:17 +0000 UTCRick started it. Killed 40 plus innocent civilians at an outpost. Don't remember saviors attacking Alexandria killing 40 civilians. Guess that's why majority of fans sympathize with the saviors. :-) anyways no point in talking about this. Communications class taught me that people serve in self serving bias when arguing online. Oh well have a good day.
Tylor Smith
2023-05-09 21:34:11 +0000 UTCNope. Those saviors could tell it was not dwight, and they continued to shoot. Then they were stopped by the biker gang in the road, who wanted to kill Abe and take Alexandria. Rick attacked the outpost with all that in mind. Saviors started it.
eli
2023-05-09 21:27:26 +0000 UTCI agree fully…but realistically, none of us are watching a show where logic wins out and people realise their best way is to plant crops, be kind, and work together… I wouldn’t want to watch that (living it would be nice though!😆). Luckily we ARE watching a show where the quality is so good & the characters are so realistic, human & multi-dimensional that we desperately *WANT* them to work it out & can see how needless the whole thing is. Otherwise we’d just hate the villains and love the heroes (still fun sometimes!) I Love this show and your reactions - Thank You 🙂👍 x
Georgina
2023-05-09 20:07:07 +0000 UTCRick gave Negan the chance to surrender before the war began & Negan chose not to take it
Ser
2023-05-09 16:59:11 +0000 UTCOur group under a deal with the saviors would’ve never worked… Negan forcing our group to be slaves eventually is not a good reasoning to why Rick shouldn’t have attacked because we would have the same end result
Ser
2023-05-09 16:53:12 +0000 UTCLol no. The saviors attacked Daryl, Sasha, and Abe TWICE! Negan started this
eli
2023-05-09 16:23:56 +0000 UTCThat's no different to the kill them and take what they have attitude that many of the people on the show have, that's how the world is
Kim Magee
2023-05-09 16:23:14 +0000 UTCI love gray characters too. In fact, I rarely watch shows/movies without good villains, and that includes villains who have tragic backstories that I can relate to. But, that doesn't mean I want him/her to win...to take over...to be the leader. Sorry. Not happening. lol I've heard this mentioned over many, many years of watching this show, "if we followed the villain (Negan) in his story, we would sympathize more." But, to tell you the truth, NAH! I don't think I would be interested in a show like that. Don't get me wrong. I love a good villain, and Negan is it, and JDM plays him to perfection, and I know this because I hate him. lol But I don't want him to win. A lot of people wanted Negan to win over Rick & his communities. That's just wrong. Some villains can be redeemed, but in my opinion - right now - Negan cannot.
angie808
2023-05-09 14:40:25 +0000 UTCSimon seems like someone you'd be able tire out easily in a fight because he's so overconfident.
k4rizz4
2023-05-09 13:50:18 +0000 UTCIt really all depends what side you began with. It's easy to see our people as the "villain" as well. This is what a love about the gray characters on this show.
k4rizz4
2023-05-09 13:48:26 +0000 UTCYep. You're right. I don't know why I, but I always think of Rosita in that spot. Maybe it's because it's Abe, and a big-ass truck. lol
angie808
2023-05-09 12:37:09 +0000 UTCR+T season 9 starts the Angela Kang take over as the new show runner of the series. She has done some amazing things, and you will see the difference in the last 3 seasons as they say..."Angela Kang did the damn thang".. Its like a show reboot.... Enjoy sea 9-11. Ciao guys.
Kevin Mahoney
2023-05-09 08:55:00 +0000 UTCNah the Saviors started it by attacking Daryl, Sasha and Abe on the road, which is the only reason why they took that deal in the first place.
Don't Take This Seriously
2023-05-09 08:47:43 +0000 UTCIt was Sasha(not Rosita)
Heather Baker
2023-05-09 06:30:36 +0000 UTCThose guys were still under Negan though. He literally tells these gangs to kill and then pillage. He is evil. Not even remotely comparable to Rick, it's honestly pretty silly to make the comparison bud
eli
2023-05-09 05:58:13 +0000 UTCNegan is evil. He's kills and laughs. He rapes and laughs. That's a little more than an "Asshole"
eli
2023-05-09 05:56:25 +0000 UTCHonestly I do believe Rick started this. He took a deal to attack the satellite outpost for more than half of hilltops produces to “take out negan,” the incursion between Abraham Sasha and Daryl with the biker savors went unnoticed by negan as he just found that out when he saw the rpg when they were taking all the weapons from alexandria. Also with Daryl’s encounter with Dwight before he got burned also most likely got unnoticed by negan. However saying all of this negans way of occupation and taking tribute really did contribute to the start of the war arc I believe if Rick didn’t attack the satellite outpost he could’ve made a deal akin to what the kingdom had with Gavin
Richard Ortega
2023-05-09 04:47:50 +0000 UTCThank you my guy negan is such a horrible character when you break it down logically he is not a good person he only works well kind of works on the show but if this was real life he would have been dead long ago it's just TV b******* why could he use common sense to work with other communities instead of doing all the b******* he does f*** out of here man this dude is not a good person or just because of my wife got cancer I'm going to make people life miserable I see through that b******* f*** him so every group he meets he kills one person for no f****** reason come on man you can't make this s*** up he is a goofy ass person just make me sick when people try to justify his behavior knowing damn well he's a TV villain and doesn't actually work in real life that's why they give him carismatic charm for his character but nobody really respected him soon Rick took over they talk s*** about that dude lol and he doesn't think logically meaning long-term of what he's doing to the people of course they're going to turn on you of course you going to run out of resource of course you pick a s*** hole 💩 sanctuary that can't even grow plants come on man what a retard get him out of here Time for the next villain
Mackendie
2023-05-09 04:01:56 +0000 UTCThere's no way anybody with common sense can justify negan He's an a****** and he's evil He's a villain for a reason he thinks he's doing good thing but he's not just because it's TV and they throw a little charm towards his character you guys a blinded by his charm I guess that s*** doesn't work on me I see the b******* negan is not a good person his group is horrible people that is a fact
Mackendie
2023-05-09 03:49:55 +0000 UTCI didn't know he played the Red skull in Infinity war That's crazy but I'm so hyped for tomorrow episode of The walking Dead great reaction guys. Simon needed to die and also Laura is hot to do something to me every time I see it on screen but that's beside the point I love Eugene going to the dark side 😂
Mackendie
2023-05-09 03:44:55 +0000 UTCI love Negan, but there's no way in hell he'd beat Simon 1 on 1, had to suspend my disbelief there a bit. Super emotional ending to this one, can't wait for the finale!
Joshua Markham
2023-05-09 03:22:01 +0000 UTC@eli Negan isn’t evil. He’s an asshole, but he’s not evil.
Kallie Pampuch
2023-05-09 03:13:46 +0000 UTCAhhh, but that was a disconnected event. Even Negan had no idea till the RPG was brought forth- and gave Rick praise for it instead!
Handsome_Man
2023-05-09 02:44:06 +0000 UTCYes. Let's all remember where this all started. Rosita, Abe & Daryl were minding their own business, driving the herd away from Alexandria, when they were attacked by a group. Having been separated, Daryl meets up with Dwight, Sherry & Tina, who's running away from a group, and he ends up helping them escape, only to be betrayed by them. Then they almost gets executed on the road by a group of bikers. We didn't know it then, but it's the same group of people - the Saviors. This group is ruled by Negan, who is actually responsible for sending said group out to do all this damage to communities (not the way that Simon does it, but still). All this, to take over what these communities have. Dwight turns up again, and kills Denise, when actually intending to kill Daryl (after Daryl saves his & Sherry's life). And they all find out together, that this same group is also subjugating Hilltop, killed one of them - a kid - to prove they mean business. And we all know & remember what happened at the clearing. Negan is responsible for everything. He might not have been the hands that did the actually killing all the time, but he MADE these soldiers who they are. He gave them permission to be the nasty killers they are, whether he's willing to admit it or not. He even knew (confirmed in this episode) what Simon was capable of, and he still kept Simon as his 1st Lt. Rick was stupid for not finding out more about this group, first, before doing anything, and that's on him, but he DID NOT start it. I love that you both keep that in mind, even though you are softening toward Negan, a little. lol Rosita just gave Eugene something to fight for. He seems very determined now.
angie808
2023-05-09 02:33:02 +0000 UTCRick and Negan would be an unstoppable force if they worked together. The finale is gonna be crazy
James
2023-05-09 02:26:47 +0000 UTCRip Simon
Nick
2023-05-09 02:11:08 +0000 UTCSaviors started this by attacking Daryl, Sasha, and Abraham twice. It actually is pretty black and white lol. The saviors are villains and negan is an evil fuck
eli
2023-05-09 01:54:57 +0000 UTCAugh, “Rick started this, Rick started that”, Rick attacked a satellite outpost too lol.👀
Handsome_Man
2023-05-09 01:34:04 +0000 UTC
