Monogatari Second Season watch order POLL
Added 2024-10-29 11:15:30 +0000 UTCThere's a watch order poll on Youtube to decide in which order we will watch this upcoming season:
https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxJSrgIbh8zYLse1VD2SAndHce5_OFJqtl
I will go with the majority vote!
Comments
Glad to see. Gotta become 日本語上手 one of these days. I have seen one guy make a semi-argument about why he felt like complete SHAFT order was good. Cultured Crusaders video on why he “can’t” recommend monogatari explains that if you wanna get into it just watch the original broadcast. I kinda feel like that order should be preserved just because if anyone wants to watch it the way we did originally or if they have trouble jumping from such insanely different animation styles it might be best to follow that order. spoilers . . . His video tho mentioned that where Kizu is placed offers a good time for you to go back and see what happened and gives additional reflection on how far Araragi has come as a character. I can kinda see what he means but I do disagree, that it’s not as impactful to wait so long on Kizu. Like, we would have no idea who Episode is in Neko Shiro and Shinobu Mail, and it would also be a big question mark on how impactful Mayoi Jiangshi was for Shinobu as well. Koyomimonogatari tho I feel like is definitely best in novel order, just because it adds in lingering doubt for Gaens character. Her motivations and trustworthiness and why/how she obtains the sword. That said, just speaking about controversial watch orders. I have previously also advocated for Kizu after Nise too… Kizu was delayed but it wasn’t ever meant to come out before Nise did (originally announced for 2012 release and Nise was released Jan 2012, delay for Kizu was only first announced in April 2012, after Nise airing) and imo the Shinobu bath scene adds so much more when you have no idea what she’s talking about. The sense of mystery, the curious aspect for how their relationship has played out, why they’re tied to each other like this and how the dynamics of their relationship works.. not to mention when she tells him to kill her it really threw me off. I’ve kinda pulled back on that tho, in part because it’s not that important and also because the Shinobu bath scene without context for who she was in Kizu can be jarring for normie audiences..
Oshi
2024-10-31 04:32:38 +0000 UTCPeople voting don't realize that this is the ANIME, not the LIGHT NOVEL. They're so obsessed with making everything 'efficient' and 'orderly' that they're become completely delusional about the greater details. Studio SHAFT single handedly convinced NisiOisiN that his work *was* adaptable into an anime, since for a long time it was joked that it was so dialogue heavy and nuanced that it just wouldn't work as a telivized animated show! That's where Studio SHAFT and Akiyuki Shinbo come in and show him that they've got both the passion and the creativity to do it! Just look at the latest season to confirm this! It was aired completely out of order, and yet it works fantastically well! It was Monogatari at it's peak! Hell, even Shinbo snuck in some of his own personal efforts in!
Skeletan
2024-10-30 20:42:46 +0000 UTCI do hope nobody takes my passionate advocating of my own opinion too personally. I just enjoy arguing on the internet lol (I hope you all do too otherwise why do it at all right?) At the end of the day, the series is great in every order and I'm definitely still gonna keep paying for these reactions. Can't wait for the next debate when Second Season wraps up. See y'all then!
hampsterducktape
2024-10-30 19:53:07 +0000 UTCWell said, even if I disagree with your final takeaway. I've never said anywhere that alternate watch orders would "ruin" the series or be "wrong," as some have accused me of thinking. I fell in love with the series even when most of Bake was half black screens and unfinished animations and Kizu came after Owari S1. (Oddly enough, I never see anyone advocate for watching that order, even though it would be "fine too," as so many say about their own preferred order). Ultimately, the series is still good no matter what order you watch it in, but we're all here advocating for what we think is the best possible order for the new viewer. As for the author's interviews, I wouldn't take anything he says outside of the content of the books themselves as gospel, considering he's gone on record saying "this is the last book" like four times. I usually default to just saying "the author wrote it this way" as a spoiler-free shortcut to all of the reasons I actually prefer it, but also in an attempt (in vain) to remove uncertainty and encourage consistency. The "watch order" debate is so confusing, with no less than five different perfectly valid orders to watch the show. I just think it's simpler to say "the books are like this so watch it like this." SPOILERS I think the novel order makes the most sense thematically, as it sets up the conman's character arc in a more linear way (which is ironic because it's non-linear chronologically), as well as setting up the dramatic irony of knowing that everything will turn out "fine" for Araragi, even as he appears to be in mortal danger multiple times in arcs that take place chronologically before Hana (including the end of Koyomi). As for your idea of the conman conning the audience, I think that notion still works just as well in novel order, just faster. It makes the viewer realize "Oh that must be a lie. So what else was a lie? I guess I'll never know for sure." There's also the mention of the conman's lead on the devil in Koi, which would at best make no sense to someone who hasn't seen Hana and at worst be considered a spoiler. Whereas if you've already seen Hana, it becomes an explanation for a remaining mystery. Also, I just find Hitagi END to be a more fitting end to the second season as a whole. I understand that I'm in the minority here, and that novel order will lose every poll. That's why I'm so passionately defending the novel order in the hopes that others will see it and change their votes. I also just genuinely enjoy arguing on the internet lol. Thanks for being level-headed and informative about this, as we're clearly all passionate about this series that we all love so much. I'm curious on your position on the rest of the watch order. Do you think Koyomi should go after Owari S1 or before? What about Kizu? And boy that newest season opens up a whole new can of worms doesn't it? I can't even speak on that one nearly as well as the others since I haven't read those novels yet (日本語下手). I'm excited to continue debating when those watch orders become relevant too lmao.
hampsterducktape
2024-10-30 19:42:19 +0000 UTC*Spoilers ahead* - I'll specifically space out where the spoilers are space them out so don't read further after that point if you don't wanna be spoiled. I'll try to keep them light as well in case of wandering eyes or skimming.. Realistically, this isn't THAT big of an argument - both styles are good but for different reasons. While what I'm about to say might seem contradictory, I don't think this is THAT critical of an issue, I just have way too much time on my hands rn. Monogatari has a cult following and it has had this following since it aired which is pretty indicative of the fact that the broadcast order works... Frankly they both do. The "cheap shock value" really not the only benefit. That's not why I like it... Also to say that SHAFT of all studios made the decision because they wanted to get the show out is laughable. You must not have watched the original airing of Bake or have any real understanding of the quality of SHAFT TV releases over the course of the last 20 years, or how their working conditions were on their artists. I'll give you a full rundown of it if you actually wanna take the time to read through - but realistically speaking, tl;dr you only get the chance to view the series for the first time once and on a first viewing, I find the themes and the general outline for the broadcast order of SS to generally be more appropriate. Reading the novels offers a different experience - they should be viewed as two separate works. The series was slotted for 26 episodes on initial release, they released 23 with 3 filler episodes that were just recaps weekly. IF SHAFT thought that keeping the original watch order was more important - they could have just as easily made the final arc of Second Season the standalone arc instead of Hana. But they didn't. Most people tend to say "that's how it was intended" or "it's just production issues, otherwise it wouldn't be a convo" and that's not true. It's too simplistic to say "it's just cuz production issues" There's clearly more to why they made this decision. While production issues may have been the cause - it doesn't mean that that was the reason they chose Hana to be aired after, nor does it mean that they didn't alter what parts of the novels they adapted for these series with this change in mind. SPOILERS . . . . . Even with that being said - I think as a first time viewing experience - it actually works better this way. Personally I find it more thematically on-point and with how highly regarded Second Season is among the fandom (and has been since 2013 when it aired) it seems that this order was pretty successful. If you don't watch it in broadcast order you 1) lose out on the ability to ever be fooled, as the audience. It's not about shock, it's about giving the conman his due. They lean very heavily into this with his dialogue at the beginning of the final arc during his appearances, and while I agree the take away from the arc is not meant to be what happens to him - the same takeaway from the arc is given to you just 2 episodes later... You have to re-evaluate the whole thing after you've effectively been deceived. It works surprisingly well too when you come off of Oni and just had to say good-bye to another character and all the sudden you're given this realization that a certain black hued character comes off as more menacing than just from the uneasy feeling or the finale to Oni. 2) Fail to see the lesson that he provides... People tend to talk about these arcs as if they're a commentary on good vs evil - and that is one aspect of it, but it's more about what he lays out for monkey at the restaurant... Paraphrasing "people aren't all good or bad. People especially are almost never black or white but morally gray. Changing perspectives and changing personal situation will ultimately skew these viewpoints" which is perfect to be his finishing scene. He should not be look at from the lens of a rising hero as so many people who watch it initially say. He's just normal. 3) lose a bit of additional interest that we have in his motivation for Hana. We don't know why he takes the job, we are given the context clues to figure it out though and it is genuinely something fun to piece together. We first meet him in front of monkey's house. weird. We know he has a relationship already with the Gaen family through Izuko found out in Nise+Shiro. We know his interest in monkey is enough to fundamentally change how he looks at doing this job. (koi 1) and we see his inner thoughts "she died in a traffic accident anyways. While I know love, I don't know losing it." These things help make him a more dynamic character with a lot more depth than Araragi gives him - which is obviously intentional. I do think Hana works well in the middle as well, but I think for a first time viewer - especially since you will never get the chance again - it's better to put Hana at the end. Also, @hampsterducktape you're misunderstanding SHAFT vs Aniplex when it comes to how they put the series in the Blu-Ray package... Also, at the price that the Blu-Rays are, don't you think that they're probably marketed more towards people who are already fans of the series? SHAFT DID originally want to put it in broadcast order but they don't get the final say how how the product gets packaged. And if you wanna say that NisiOisiN is the final authority on watch order, that's just as silly imo. He has gone on record to say that "Kizu is a fine starting point. And chronologically speaking it's the first in the series so maybe that's even right." so should they be placed in chronological order as a result of those comments? Of course not. His storyboarding process is not as complex to say that he has a full idea of exactly where and why he's releasing these stories in the order that he has.
Oshi
2024-10-30 03:31:43 +0000 UTChttps://monogatari-usa.com/finalseason/ Oh, and here's the studio selling the blu rays and they're listed in Novel Order! Wow! It's almost like they know that the behind-the-scenes production issues shouldn't impact the way the series is watched!
hampsterducktape
2024-10-29 22:25:05 +0000 UTCNo, the production studio cares about making the show in whatever way that actually gets the show released. Which is why some parts got delayed and it had to be aired out of order.
hampsterducktape
2024-10-29 22:19:37 +0000 UTCWhy does the author need to tell you that he wrote it the way he did on purpose? Like, he didnt release it that way by mistake. Unlike the studio, which did release it that way because of behind-the-scenes production issues. And yeah, I also watched it as it aired when it came out and fell in love with it. And I've also watched it in novel order. And I've also watched it in the weird Frankenstein order that the studio recommends now. And I've also read the books. And as someone who has seen all of these orders, and as someone who also loves the series, I can tell that it's best when it's actually in the correct order. The order that the author intended it to be read when he wrote the novels. Novel order.
hampsterducktape
2024-10-29 22:17:45 +0000 UTCAlso did you seriously just say that the animation studio adapting the books which were already written know better than the man who actually wrote them???
hampsterducktape
2024-10-29 22:10:52 +0000 UTCYou listen to studio shaft? So you think Hana goes in the middle right? Because that's where they put it after it was done in the trailer for the newest season. https://youtu.be/w9Vw48qq6zk?si=AS8E3BIeqg2Ug4g-
hampsterducktape
2024-10-29 22:09:57 +0000 UTCWe listen to studio Shaft, which has made Monogatari for years. They have better understanding of what better than anyone else here
levovit
2024-10-29 22:07:22 +0000 UTCAre you saying that the whole production studio did not care about the narrative? You are delusional
levovit
2024-10-29 22:06:27 +0000 UTCYoure acting as if the author is on record saying that watching the series out of order ruins the story. I highly doubt that's how he feels. I and a lot of people didn't watch it the way the author intended, and we still deeply love the series.
Sunstarer
2024-10-29 21:50:53 +0000 UTCAuthorial Intent vs. Production Issues might not be a big deal to you, but for those of us who really care about this story and the reasons it's told in this way, it is.
hampsterducktape
2024-10-29 21:13:48 +0000 UTCYeah that's why I'm not getting involved in the debate, I'm letting majority decide.
Mat
2024-10-29 18:28:54 +0000 UTCDamn, I didn't know people were so fiesty about this. It really is not a big deal at all.
Sunstarer
2024-10-29 18:11:46 +0000 UTCYes it literally is. Cheap shock value over a single detail is the ONLY benefit to watching the show out of order.
hampsterducktape
2024-10-29 16:17:54 +0000 UTCWho should we listen to? The author who wrote the damn thing or a bunch of dumbasses on the internet?
hampsterducktape
2024-10-29 16:11:06 +0000 UTCThat's not why people choose Hana after SS...
Oshi
2024-10-29 14:07:08 +0000 UTCGoing to be ruined by people with no care for the greater narrative flow telling you to watch it out of order for cheap shock value :(
Advesha
2024-10-29 13:32:34 +0000 UTC
