Doctor Who 5x5 Flesh and Stone - CLEAN
Added 2024-08-21 21:00:06 +0000 UTCOoh here we are at the conclusion! I love how reading your comments in the last video made me realise something I'd not thought of about River. And now I'm just very confused! I can't explain why she is here, or how. Just that her timeline is messed up. I originally thought this means she's NOT dead (even though we saw her die in The Forest of the Dead) but I now think she IS dead?! But in this episode, she hasn't reached the part where she's dead yet.... Wait.... HUH?! That doesn't work. And this is where it actually hurts my brain to think about all this timey-wimey stuff, so I put it in the too hard basket and ignore it.
It's just something we need to accept as it happens! Don't ask any questions 🤣
The ending of this episode has me asking MANY QUESTIONS though and I might be alone here, but I'm not entirely pleased with what we saw 🫢 Goodness me! Very brazen haha!
Youtube edit: https://youtu.be/QuHqb_cMdEw (this will have the logo)
Comments
What a great way of explaining that!
Larissa Reimer
2024-08-26 22:28:00 +0000 UTCJust out of curiosity, will you be reviewing Meanwhile in the Tardis, Part 2? It slots between this episode and the next, and kind of introduces the next episode.
jsm
2024-08-25 05:21:11 +0000 UTCFYI, the next minisode fits in after this, but before the next episode. "Meanwhile, in the TARDIS..." (Part 2)
Kthulhu
2024-08-24 15:44:04 +0000 UTCJules this youtube clip from Doctor Who Confidential shows the bts of the kissing scene but more importantly Moffat's then 2009 intention (that he now regrets) - https://youtu.be/tNeXmFwEB9o?si=MAunVJif7W-9Alz5
Jason
2024-08-23 11:42:09 +0000 UTCAbout River Song's timeline... I did warn you. :-)
Martin Holt
2024-08-22 14:34:34 +0000 UTCWe all know River Song is a sassy little thing. Now imagine River Song and Captain Jack together in the TARDIS. It's enough to make an Angel weep.
Martin Holt
2024-08-22 14:34:01 +0000 UTCHi Jules, concerning River's timeline, I hope this helps (spoiler-free): 1) someone wrote that she and the Doctor are meeting in the opposite direction. This is not entirely true, someone told that to me as well when I first watched the show, but it got me confused later on. What is true is that they meet out of order, because they are both time-travellers. 2) That being said: Maybe the whole thing is MUCH easier to understand if you imagine for a moment that only one of them would travel in time. For example: If River was NOT time-travelling and born in 1980 and the time travelling doctor had met her first in 2024, then in 2018, then in 2005, then in 1990, then lastly in 1984: this would be a very similar situation, but easier to understand: In 2024 she would know his personal future, because it was in the past. He wouldn't know her, because it's the first time he meets her. In 2005 he would know parts of her future (because he was there) and she would know parts of his future (those who will happen before 2005). In 1984 he would know her future, she wouldn't know him at all. In the show it's just a little different because River's also time traveling, but the principle for both of them is the same, just in different years. 3) When River cheekily said that he maybe can kiss her when he's older, that didn't necessarily mean after another regeneration. He might be just a year older and still have the same face. When River met the 10th doctor she realized that he was younger then she ever saw him before although David Tennant looks older then Matt Smith. I DO hope that helps. Steven Moffat's storytelling is brilliant but also complicated and confusing and unfortunately also sometimes completely incoherent and illogical. The most fun you can have is to ignore the latter and enjoy the former.... 😁
Oliver
2024-08-22 14:19:48 +0000 UTCAnother interesting thing to note is River mentions that their times together always end in handcuffs and she dies in the library with 10 in handcuffs.
TheBlueSoulOfIntegrity
2024-08-22 12:45:15 +0000 UTCPublic announcement for everyone! The Doctor Who 2024 Prom concert is this Monday 26th August & if you can find a way to access a live UK radio stream it will be live on BBC Radio 3 at 7pm BST - 10pm BST!! The performance will be recorded for streaming & TV BUT WILL NOT be shown until later in 2024 (Probably Nov/Dec) A few Prom concerts for you to catch up on Jules before this one!!
Jason
2024-08-22 11:19:06 +0000 UTCThey did have to reshoot it a few times. Karen & Matt called it "Smootchi, smootchi time!!" during filming, if you watch this clip from Doctor Who Confidential - (Totally non-spoilery if you want to watch it Jules & gives Moffats reasoning in 2009) -https://youtu.be/tNeXmFwEB9o?si=GyleMmsiRyzt8emG
Jason
2024-08-22 11:04:20 +0000 UTCAt this point during filming the only two people who knew River's story were Steven Moffat and Alex Kingston (the actress who plays River). She didn't know everything, but Steven did loop her in on the important parts so that she understood how to play certain scenes. She is loosely modeled on characters from the book/movie "The Time Travelers' Wife" (which incidentally Steven Moffat would later turn into a TV show). - That isn't a spoiler, by the way, don't read too much into the title of the story. It's not about the relationship between the characters, but the concept of the two characters meeting out of order that he was interested in. Steven Moffat was fascinated by the story and couldn't comprehend how a show like Doctor Who in its 40+ years of time-travelling companions hadn't thought of doing something like that before!
SeeJay
2024-08-22 08:18:29 +0000 UTCYeah 100% could’ve been done in a better way
Geo
2024-08-22 08:02:39 +0000 UTCI will note however that Steve Moffat himself has said that he regrets this scene.
jsm
2024-08-22 07:47:57 +0000 UTCThe date shown on the scanner 26/5/2010 was the broadcast date for the series 5 finale.
Darren Williams
2024-08-22 07:20:35 +0000 UTCI always cringe when Amy basically assaults the Doctor. I get that she almost died and she was kinda acting out in a sense, but it doesn't make it any easier to watch lol. Also, I read a some point that they had to keep re-shooting the scene because Matt kept kissing Karen back 😂
Melanie
2024-08-22 06:42:34 +0000 UTC"Being dead" isn't a meaningful status in a world with time travel, it just means you don't exist in a given moment but you can visit different moments. River died in the Library. She's alive in this story because the Library hasn't happened to her yet. You can watch a video of JFK's assassination, and then watch a video of one of his political speeches afterwards; this is just visiting instead of watching. Dead only ever means absent if you can time travel.
Sean Deignan
2024-08-22 01:46:03 +0000 UTCOOH that is true, thank you for the new perspective!
Juliette Gaming
2024-08-22 01:26:25 +0000 UTCThis theme song is probably my favourite so far! Maybe once I'm caught up, we can listen to them all and rank them hehe
Juliette Gaming
2024-08-22 01:26:08 +0000 UTCyes!! it's always awesome to hear things from other episodes!
Juliette Gaming
2024-08-22 01:25:05 +0000 UTCI'll put a bookmark in that scene and come back to it!
Juliette Gaming
2024-08-22 01:24:48 +0000 UTCWOAH..... That is TRUE!!
Juliette Gaming
2024-08-22 01:23:57 +0000 UTCThe Doctor/Amy relationship is indeed going to become a very special one...
GingerBardMan
2024-08-22 00:39:39 +0000 UTCThis wasn't really romance, IMO. Amy had just nearly died, and was already obviously having some cold feet. She wasn't looking for romance, she was looking for something more physical IN THE MOMENT. It's not the same as Rose or Martha having convinced themself that they're in love with the Doctor.
Kthulhu
2024-08-22 00:15:53 +0000 UTCSo glad that you love the Dr Who theme song which has gone through quite a few iterations. The composer is Ron Grainer and his name is the one that appears in the credits, but the person who realised the original theme through the use of electronic music won't be officially recognised until the 50th anniversary of the show. Her name is Delia Derbyshire and she used very advanced techniques to enision Grainer's theme. Each note was individually created by cutting, splicing, speeding up and slowing down segments of magnetic tape containing recordings of a single plucked string, white noise, and the simple harmonic waveforms of test-tone oscillators. Famously, when he heard the original Radiophonic arrangement, Grainer remarked, “Did I write that?” (to which Delia replied, “Very nearly!”), and even suggested splitting his performance royalty income (although BBC policy at the time made this impossible). This hints that Delia and Dick were just as important a contribution to the theme as Ron Grainer’s original ideas were.
Dyrla
2024-08-21 23:58:47 +0000 UTCI have to be honest that this 2 parter does divide fans because it adds more to the Angel lore. It's a double edged sword because we see The Angels move & kill & it's famously said the human brain can be more scary than what you see on screen. Seeing The Angels move somewhat spoils their mystique
Jason
2024-08-21 23:51:12 +0000 UTCDid you catch the line about "The CyberKing" from Victorian London in "The Next Doctor" & how no one remembers it in the future stomping across London? I love continuity like that!! 🥰
Jason
2024-08-21 23:42:39 +0000 UTCFrom River's perspective, her timeline isn't messed up at all, everyone else's is. It's all about perspective.
OverWims
2024-08-21 23:27:21 +0000 UTCAnother great reaction Jules. This isn't a spoiler, it's actually pretty obvious once you know but basically the Doctor and River are meeting in the opposite direction. His first meeting with her is her last meeting with him and his eventual last meeting with her is her first with him. I'll say nothing more because it enters spoiler territory but this should at least stop the confusion. Also, after the season ends you're going to want to rewatch this episode paying special attention to the forest scene... don't do it now, just trust me, it shows how well thought out this seasons overarching story was.
The Rising Ape
2024-08-21 23:02:59 +0000 UTCA lot of people hate that ending but honestly, and don't get me wrong, I cringe too, but I think it gets more hate than it deserves. Once you consider the context of future episodes and story lines, I think it does hold some decent narrative significance/drive.
Geo
2024-08-21 22:51:32 +0000 UTCThank you, Trey!! I'll upload that one soon. I'll have to check if there are any more for this series!
Juliette Gaming
2024-08-21 22:47:10 +0000 UTCPHEW! So it's not just me that wasn't too keen on that scene at the end?! I thought I'd get so much hate 🤣
Juliette Gaming
2024-08-21 22:46:23 +0000 UTCHAHAHAHA 🤣🤣🤣 yeah, I'd rather have a new video game or some chocolate, me! I loved the Doctor and Rose together, but I really enjoyed Donna and the Doctor so much more without the romance factor!
Juliette Gaming
2024-08-21 22:45:39 +0000 UTCIt does seem that her timeline is messed up, and she's all over the place... I don't know how that happened but she seems to take it all in her stride. What an amazing woman!
Juliette Gaming
2024-08-21 22:44:20 +0000 UTCI am so looking forward to having it explained as we go along! It seems so intriguing, and I feel a bit silly for not understanding.
Juliette Gaming
2024-08-21 22:43:44 +0000 UTCYEP 🤣🤣
Juliette Gaming
2024-08-21 22:43:16 +0000 UTCREALLY!!!! That is awesome!!!
Juliette Gaming
2024-08-21 22:43:09 +0000 UTCI'm honestly not sure what to think. So yes, she is dead because we saw her die but that was in the future when she was a Professor. But we've now seen her in the past BUT it's not the Doctor's past. Yikes!
Juliette Gaming
2024-08-21 22:42:59 +0000 UTC@Patrick Armbruster "you mean the future?" - Marty McFly
OverWims
2024-08-21 22:40:18 +0000 UTCVery fun reaction as always! Just a head’s up: the next minisode “Meanwhile in the Tardis 2” takes place between this and the next episode!
Trey Moore
2024-08-21 22:16:24 +0000 UTCi mentioned long ago there is one scene we alL just want to forget. This was it. my suggestion is put it out of your mind AND NEVER THINK ABOUT IT AGAIN. It won't hurt you to never think about it...ever. It never happened. What I did learn was that Moffat and his writers and production team...are human too...hehehe. In interviews Moffat talks about the mistakes they made early on. Like the 1. giant pride colored daleks and 2. Amy acting like slut.
The Dog Walker
2024-08-21 22:11:02 +0000 UTCI personally don't like love interest between the doctor and companions as it gets cringe I personally think Amy's advances on the doctor might of been her way of saying thank you for saving her but that is definitely not the correct way of saying thank you there are better ways me personally would accept a 1/35 scale tamiya plastic tiger tank model kit 🤣
Dave
2024-08-21 22:04:36 +0000 UTCAs you know this was the very first filming block for S5. In Britain we got the first leaked pics (just off Bad Wolf Bay) of Matt in costume from this 2 parter way before The Waters Of Mars aired later in 2009. Moffat put his heart & soul into it & overlooked the filming of Victory Of The Daleks, he also regrets Amy's behaviour & has since said it should have been done in a totally different way but the intention was that she was in a mixed up way after cheating death, high on life & impulsively threw herself at the one who saved her. Steven Moffat was in an interview with Christel Dee at the end of his era & said this about the Paradigm Daleks & this Angel two parter. - Q: "Not everything you introduced was successful. You introduced a new design for the Daleks. There we go, on our mugs/cups over there. How hard is it redesigning an icon?" -A: "I would appear to make it look extremely difficult! It was a salutary lesson and lets just be clear in talking about the redesigned Daleks, that the fault resides entirely with me and not any of the brilliant team that made the new Daleks. They were beautiful in many respects It was my mistake and a completely unnecessary one. But tell you what was interesting about it. It was a fascinating lesson that I sort of never forgot. We made the Daleks huge! What a stupid idea. Why? You make the Daleks huge, you just move the camera further away and you make the Doctor smaller. Now if you've seen those actual props they're gorgeous. If you go and see them in real life or you've seen them on stage, they look amazing! Where they don't look good is on television, the only place where it matters that they look good. We put SO much thought and effort into our first filming block which were the Weeping Angel episodes that I think stand up to this day as the best we ever did. They were absolutely tremendous episodes. Matt looks like he's been playing it for years, Karen looks like she's been there forever. It all looks terrific. I took my eye off the ball of the block 2 episodes and should have been visiting that set, I shouldn't have been giving endless notes on the rushes (Block 1) that were unnecessary. I should have moved my attention to block 2, taken a look at those Daleks and the camera tests and thought, no let's not do it. Most of the things I wasn't quite sure about happened in that second block but my attention was on the beginning. The beginning is easy, it's keeping going that's hard & keeping going is all about that block 2 filming" (This was a transcript from "Steven Moffat On Matt Smith's Era, Writing The 5Oth Anniversary & MORE! | Doctor Who: The Fan Show) - https://youtu.be/ZOfIIqb8Uhg?si=J1mEgGvsNWpe37H4 All 3 parts are a fascinating watch for Whovians who have seen all of Moffats era before watching S11 Part 1- https://youtu.be/iBwBlwGbVaA?si=O81_YlBnoWUAiNOi Part 2 - link above Part 3 - https://youtu.be/styqnGNTffM?si=OxyICbYkc12c5lON (Includes a spoiler picture from S11)
Jason
2024-08-21 22:03:53 +0000 UTCYou'll have to be patient with river songs story, there's lots to it and it does get more complicated before you can really understand it Also the season story line of the crack, the pandorica and time being rewritten will probably be confusing as the season progresses but it will be explained
Tobly
2024-08-21 21:51:13 +0000 UTCIt's a matter of perspective. Clearly, in this present episode, she is _not_ dead. Her death hasn't happened yet from her perspective. – From the Doctor's perspective, that happened a while ago, so it's in the past.
Patrick Armbruster
2024-08-21 21:49:17 +0000 UTCTrust me, once the river songs story finishes then you'll fully understand her and the confusing time travel. It gets easier to understand.
ShahsheeHD
2024-08-21 21:43:25 +0000 UTC15:45 - it IS Bad Wolf Bay! Same location
Brian
2024-08-21 21:42:53 +0000 UTCGreat episode if you turn it off before it gets to *that part* at the end
George
2024-08-21 21:30:21 +0000 UTCshe is dead. the first time saw her was the end of her life. this river is years earlier for her, but years later for the doctor- i know its easy to get confused but im not sure why you thought she was not dead? first time we met river in the library she even said her past with the doctor was his future.
Jamie White
2024-08-21 21:05:55 +0000 UTC
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