A Bit About How Things Work at Second Wind
Added 2024-08-03 20:26:26 +0000 UTCHey, Jack here.
We’ve heard from a lot of you recently, asking about how our management structure works and how big decisions are made here at Second Wind.
Here’s a rough breakdown of how some of our business-side works.
We are a CO-OP which means that many of our full time staff are co-owners of the company but not everyone who works for Second Wind is a co-owner.
As owners we all get a split of profits.
We do earn different salaries based on job responsibilities.
We have a board of directors that determines:
Adding/Removing Owners
Taking out loans on behalf of the business (we have not done that, nor do we plan to)
We also have a leads team that manages all of our contractors.
Which is where it gets a little tricky, because at Second Wind, we’re all contractors and some of us are Owners. So the Leads deal with the Contractors and the Board deals with the Owners.
Currently Leads and the Board are the same 5 people – Yahtzee, Nick, Omar, Marty, Jack
Leads were agreed on by the staff at the of forming Second Wind and the Board of Directors is voted on once a year.
There have been times where new leads were suggested but, so far, no one else has accepted a leads position.
Responsibility of the Leads:
Omar -- Lead Editor - Organizes all Video Editors, delegates editing jobs
Marty -- Managing Editor, Edits scripts + coordinates release of written, scripted video, streams, and podcasts
Yahtzee -- Lead Talent - Creative Direction
Nick -- Channel strategy/direction, community management, sales
Jack -- Business Operations, Human Resources
The role of the leads is to finalize decisions about contractors and general channel/company direction then make appropriate action plans.
Here’s some gray areas about who gets to make what decisions. Like any business structure, not every staff member is or should be involved in every decision.
For example, small company purchases or when to publish Patreon posts or articles - Leads can make those decisions in an effort not to bog down the staff's work. Or if Yahtzee wants to change something with Fully Ramblomatic, that should be his decision. BUT what if it’s a decision about an ad in the episode or how the credits appear… things that could potentially affect the channel and company as a whole???
Obviously it’s a balancing act, making sure individual creators have the freedom to make what they want while maintaining some sort of channel standards.
Choosing when to bring decisions to the larger group is up to the individual staff members or the leads as they deem necessary.
And that’s why we have…
Meetings: Spaces to share what we’re working on and bring up any issues or concerns.
Weekly Leads Meet
Weekly Staff Meet
Weekly Sales Meet
Weekly Video Editors Meet
Weekly CCC - Creative Meeting
Monthly Owners Meet
Recently we’ve initiated monthly individual “vibe checks” with all the full-time staff to make sure that any concerns are being heard.
A complaint that we heard was that there were some staff members who felt their ideas were not being given due consideration or that they were feeling bottlenecked.
Going back to thinking about who gets to make what decision, because his job involves the channel as a whole, a lot of decisions were going through Nick and only Nick. This wasn’t done because of a megalomaniacal power grab or anything… simply because when you’re in a group, someone needs to point in the direction we’re going.
Also, this isn’t a condemnation of Nick’s judgment or insight… but as a group of collaborators, no one person should be making the majority of the decisions for the channel.
We’re learning a lot of lessons as we build the company, especially about our individual strengths and weaknesses. The feedback we received about our decision making process has caused us to open a lot of doors we didn’t know were closed or even there. Now we have an official HR department (Jack) whose job it is to organize meetings, write notes, and follow up with proposals and concerns. We’re having more focused meetings about stats, art, and specific shows, and getting a better understanding of our group consensus to ensure that decisions aren’t made by any individual but by the group.
This doesn’t mean we will always agree with each other. And this doesn’t mean that everyone’s idea will automatically be acted on. But the hope is that all of the owners are given the space to be heard. Then we can get proper group consensus for channel-wide or company-wide decisions.
Comments
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Christopher of Spellscribe Games
2024-08-15 19:06:50 +0000 UTCSo what do you all plan to do about Nick Calandra?
Nicholas Russell
2024-08-15 16:31:35 +0000 UTCI’m really sad about the whole situation with Frost. From what I have watched on Frost’s channel, maybe there’s more to the story. For the sake of full transparency I propose that a livestream debate is set up between Frost and Nick. I mean, we do it for presidential elections, so why not in this situation as well?
Iskren Donev
2024-08-15 08:06:14 +0000 UTCI genuinely hope to see some changes n how things are run. Otherwise i'll be out with my support. Also, there is always a big talk on how transparent they are with finances, but honestly, its just the most basic of sheets, it really lacks and level of detail, I understand why it is that opaque, but then don't boast how "transparent" things are...
Spooky
2024-08-15 08:06:02 +0000 UTCThe vibe check seems like a smart addition. That side of management doesn't get a lot of applause, but it's key.
Cerulean
2024-08-15 03:43:02 +0000 UTCI highly suggest y'all watch the video Frost dropped on his own channel. You might receive this info a little differently.
Jerry S
2024-08-14 22:28:18 +0000 UTCNone of this seems surprising especially the part where nick is out front on the image. Regardless of his skills as an editor businessman I think that’s a mistake and I’m glad they addressed it. Maybe nick should make docs again like from my perspective, the thing he wasn’t allowed to do?
Alex Hannah
2024-08-06 00:17:35 +0000 UTCVery well-written and considerate post! This definitely re-inspires confidence in you folks! That said, I am still quite saddened that we lost Cold Take. That really was some high-quality content. Here’s hoping this newfound insight helps prevent losing any more talent!
HydrochloRick
2024-08-05 16:51:21 +0000 UTCThis sounds good. I'm still sad that Frost left, as I didn't watch too much of your content aside from Cold Take and the occasional Ramblomatic (the "Fully" ones I sometimes skip so I don't end up hating a game I'm looking forward to). So I'm really feeling the loss of Cold Take from the lineup. But I'm still planning to be here to support what you do as I believe in it. EDIT: I did discover Design Delve here, though, which I'm happy to have that I can watch regularly as well. :)
Scott & Sora
2024-08-05 10:09:13 +0000 UTCThe things you're saying?
Aaron Von Seggern
2024-08-04 22:18:25 +0000 UTCI'm more surprised you people actually had an HR department that gave a shit about you, and not just protecting managegement / themselves / the company, to a degree you are actually happy to have one : D
ben kay
2024-08-04 20:36:41 +0000 UTCThat's very clearly because Frost no longer works at SW genius.
mallowdOut
2024-08-04 18:31:35 +0000 UTCThe thing about any co-op, but especially a creative one, is always about balancing the creative freedom necessary to create good content—and also to keep the inherently rebellious streak that is a personality trait of the overwhelming majority of creative people from lashing out—with the need of any business to have "the adult in the room" to keep the lights on and the rent paid. If you can do this flawlessly, with no conflict or drama, you're either living in an episode of The Get-Along Gang or you're a far better administrator than literally anyone I have ever worked for in 30 years since graduating from high school (including working for myself for about ten of those years!) Anyone getting worked up over Second Wind's workplace drama I suspect needs to get more experience in the world.
May Contain Fox-Like Substance
2024-08-04 18:09:57 +0000 UTCgenuinely what the fuck are you talking about.
Beggarman
2024-08-04 17:37:12 +0000 UTCI've read everything you said. You're projecting quite a bit. I'm not here because of how well people like Darren "don't let the grifters take center stage". I don't even know how grifters could possibly impact SW's movie reviews. To make it an issue here, I think, is to engage in culture war.
Aaron Von Seggern
2024-08-04 17:33:55 +0000 UTCI really don't feel like you're responding to what I wrote, just what you want me to have wrote. Frost's line was that Nick was putting off sponsors. He also took the chuddy line that "people are only here for Yahtzee." I could well see them telling him to shut up if they think this too. I'm pointing out that I'm not here subbing just for Yahtzee, I'm here subbing because I think the people behind the project are actually good. Standing up to the chuds is part of it. I presume I am not alone. Now, I'm not sure where exactly what behaviour they seem to think is a problem - I'm barely on there myself. I also don't think twitter spats are a good use of time. However, if the new line is "don't rock the boat, let the chuds say what they want" then I don't think this is a good use of my money or attention. I don't want the grifters to take centre stage, but I don't want them off-limits either.
Beggarman
2024-08-04 15:00:35 +0000 UTCIt's clearly not just occasionally pushing back if he's now made to be completely off social media. It feels like there's some massaging of the truth when it comes to engaging in the culture war.
Aaron Von Seggern
2024-08-04 14:10:52 +0000 UTCCleverest said most of what I would say anyway, but I'd also point out that there is a drastic difference between making a career of that stuff, and occasionally pushing back on those who do. I don't want anyone getting down in the muck with them, nor do I want Second Wind to have them as some sort of recurring debunk feature (as there is something to be said for not giving them the oxygen), but "live-and-let-live" doesn't work when one side's belligerent. Clap back when it's relevant without overdoing things and i'll be reassured.
Beggarman
2024-08-04 13:30:37 +0000 UTCI love you Jack!!!
Half Tangible
2024-08-04 07:39:35 +0000 UTCWhy? Ceding to "culture war grifting chuds" means NOT opposing them. Opposing them is engaging in the culture war. Wanting both is consistent. I agree he engaged too much. He should have called the bigoted grifters out and blocked them. But I too was happy he called them out. I increased my patreon tier after seeing him stand up to vermin like grummz and smashjt.
Cleveresthandle
2024-08-04 06:29:30 +0000 UTCNothing is ever perfect but i hope you continue to consider each others ideas and are open with each other and are happy with how the company is run
protosonic17
2024-08-04 05:07:15 +0000 UTCSensible steps. As long as Nick can stay away from social media almost entirely, I'll stay subscribed. Engaging in culture war bullshit is toxic, regardless of the angle.
Jeff Gibson
2024-08-04 03:34:21 +0000 UTCUnexpected Monty Python
Jeff Gibson
2024-08-04 03:29:23 +0000 UTCYou liked seeing Nick engage in the culture war, but you don't want to cede to "culture-war-grifting chuds"? Pick one, because you don't get both.
Aaron Von Seggern
2024-08-04 02:48:38 +0000 UTCVery well worded, different from some other stuff I’ve read recently. Thanks
Adam Ferguson
2024-08-04 02:47:37 +0000 UTCI really appreciate that the SW account isn't just an official communication device between Nick and the audience
Aaron Von Seggern
2024-08-04 02:46:35 +0000 UTCThanks Jack! I appreciate the balance y'all are having to strike being both transparent and respectful to all current and former contributors involved. Collaborating with people is hard, even when everyone is talented and has the best intentions. I think you all are going to be just fine.
Evan Wilberg
2024-08-04 01:56:57 +0000 UTCI like the thought and direction but now I’m a little worried that Jack will be even more overworked… HR is a huge job, and frequently a thankless one cuz you are pissing someone off at the end of the day… but I remain optimistic that these are all adults in the room and will learn from their experiences and grow from it.
SchroKatt
2024-08-04 01:54:07 +0000 UTC8do NC my
Constantine
2024-08-04 01:36:01 +0000 UTCI never said they delisted it. I said they removed it from their main page, which they did. The other series are still listed on that page but Cold Take is not.
David Ellis
2024-08-04 01:21:56 +0000 UTCI like the optimism here Jack and having seen some of how hard you work, I know you'll give it your best. I hope the rest of the team can follow your example going forward.
Rev Zsaz
2024-08-04 01:12:29 +0000 UTCWe take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting. By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,-- --but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more... Seriously though, it is interesting to know this! Shame about the loss though.
Hidalgo Riveria
2024-08-04 01:04:13 +0000 UTChttps://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUBKwq0XD0uczLFCWbS55UqBdYB724Zr_&si=gzaFMl0rfCNlbXWC Playlist is right there with all the Cold Takes. Nothing has been delisted.
BobisOnlyBob
2024-08-04 00:55:46 +0000 UTCThis sounds very positive. Thank you for taking the time to explain, and here's to many more successful years to come!
Stephen B
2024-08-04 00:27:56 +0000 UTCIt's good to get a bit more transparency on structure, but I hope that this spat doesn't equal a change in direction. While I'm not sure if things went off the rails when I wasn't looking, seeing Nick push back against the nastier parts of the gaming sphere was actually what gave me the push to subscribe here a few months ago. If we're ceding to the culture-war-grifting chuds then I'm not sticking around, we're already dealing with race riots over their shit here.
Beggarman
2024-08-04 00:16:42 +0000 UTCI think it's important that everyone, inside and outside of SW, fully understands the implications of the company being it's own fully fledged entity now. A big part of running any independent business is the learning curve on virtually everything. And, despite all the planning in the world, mistakes will happen. Now, what the folks at SW choose to do with those mistakes—which is, hopefully, learning the right lessons and proactively working to be better—is what's going to make or break everything. In general, I'm a big fan of the commitment SW made to transparency at the outset. And, I do actually feel like they're doing their best to follow through with that promise. Transparency also comes with a laundry list of difficulties that can be hard to navigate. So, I think that there are a fair number of boundaries that will have to slide into place over time. But, this is the process when you are forced to make everything up as you go. And, since no two businesses are the same, success in one doesn't automatically mean success in another. Anyway, I'm going to go catch up on the finer details now. But, good luck, ya'll.
Jonathon Cain
2024-08-04 00:12:54 +0000 UTCIt's no longer listed here: https://www.youtube.com/@SecondWindGroup
David Ellis
2024-08-04 00:09:08 +0000 UTCAll of the Cold Takes published on Second Wind are still live so I'm not sure what you're saying here? The playlist isn't pinned to the front page anymore if that's what you mean
RamblerMonkey
2024-08-04 00:07:37 +0000 UTCJack brings some real dad energy to the table; and speaking for myself (and possibly others) it is good to hear more details about the operation of the channel to clarify a lot of the assumptions going around lately. It's a real shame about recent events tipping the apple cart, but it sounds like lessons are being learned and improvements are continuing to happen. Cheers to the future everyone!
RamblerMonkey
2024-08-04 00:03:32 +0000 UTCIt seems like you might have fallen prey to the We Are All Equals problem. If you don't have an official hierarchy with defined responsibilities, you just end up with an unofficial hierarchy where people can pass off responsibilities. You need to sort these things out consciously or they'll sort themselves out unconsciously, allowing some people to fall into the cracks, or accumulate more power (or more work) than they should. It's definitely a danger for teams who want to be egalitarian, so it's not surprising. Please make sure that there are systems to call people to account, and to keep those accounts in the first place. I would still like to know more about the insides of what happened, as I'm sure many would.
Jukashi
2024-08-03 23:55:39 +0000 UTCThank you for making information more clear. It's rough when opinions don't align and it's about what can be done now, and what can't. Never easy work.
Sharkke Koffee
2024-08-03 23:15:38 +0000 UTCOh mate, I’m not sure a lawyer got anywhere close to this company except to help with incorporation.
Tim Wilson
2024-08-03 22:59:58 +0000 UTCJack your HR for Second Wind and RLM. You got your human resource full.
Angelnickl
2024-08-03 22:38:33 +0000 UTCOh man. Now I'm imagining getting fired by Jack Packard. *Mike voice* How embarrassing.
dirtside
2024-08-03 22:19:59 +0000 UTCI don't care about the whole pay drama because it makes sense that certain people are paid more based on their role and place which is perfectly acceptable to me. What annoys me is finding out Nick had to be threatened off Twitter because they were shitposting hard on Twitter while the face of SW. Its true that it can potentially cause future earnings to take a hit because advertisers rightfully so get spooked. Plus to lose one of the core pillers of content on this channel is a big hit. So honestly as someone who doesn't follow anyone of the SW guys on Twitter, the moment I hear someone causing (specifically) stupid drama for no reason, consider me annoyed enough to rethink this.
Joanna Castellon
2024-08-03 22:18:04 +0000 UTCThis is much appreciated, but I think the question of future channel direction should be addressed also at some point. Not that you need to justify every decision but when it causes such fallout people are naturally interested.
Profound
2024-08-03 22:18:02 +0000 UTCI love everyone at Second wind. Thank you for putting out great content. Sending you all a hug xx
Matt Hoss
2024-08-03 21:59:20 +0000 UTCThe only likely reason they would be removing would be that it was Frost's request, because he owns the show. Much like how Adventure is Nigh was removed from The Escapist because SW owns it now and wanted to publish them here.
Doctor Proctor
2024-08-03 21:53:38 +0000 UTCThis. Especially when you have people operating in different states with different labor laws, seek outside help/training to get the HR stuff in order. Small investment now saves a ton of money later.
Andrew Keck
2024-08-03 21:40:28 +0000 UTCHR Jack is the best ❤️🔥
Aeryn Sunshine
2024-08-03 21:32:57 +0000 UTCHang in there guys. It sucks what happened, but I'm sure you can get past it in time.
SekhitheFops
2024-08-03 21:25:21 +0000 UTCIt’s a fantastic team that’s been built up. Keep it up guys, gals and NB pals!
PentaDamn Rose
2024-08-03 21:23:04 +0000 UTCSo I made sure to explicitly fully unsubscribe, but apparently Patreon doesn't turn off the notifications it sets up for you, so I just did that. As for Second Wind, I only subscribed to support Cold Take, and with them removing the videos from their YouTube home page, I don't see any reason to continue supporting the group that drove away their best talent?
David Ellis
2024-08-03 21:22:16 +0000 UTCI appreciate the candor here and to this situation as a whole. I feel like the resignation letter was a little out of left field and aggressive, but I can understand the frustraion of all involved. That said, my only advice going forward is to accept that the bump you take from things like this cant be recovered from overnight. It is a process of trust strengthening/reinforcement. Keep being honest and don't shy away from the hard subjects, but be adult and understanding all around. Just my 2 cents. You guys are doing great and its a shame things like this happen, but "without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible." (Frank Zappa's words, not mine)
WordsmithofSol
2024-08-03 21:20:29 +0000 UTCThis is well said. Thanks, Jack.
Dan Smeiska
2024-08-03 21:19:06 +0000 UTCDamage control begins...
Cameron French
2024-08-03 21:11:30 +0000 UTCYou can still be subscribed as a member and not a monthly donation. Also I'd hear Jack out and give SW a chance. I think Jack wrote this well and thought it out.
ComradeRedPagan
2024-08-03 21:10:31 +0000 UTCGlad to see that you're continuing to build and refine as you go, seeing what works and what doesn't. That's key to success no matter what you do. And as always, appreciate the transparency.
Matt Couture
2024-08-03 21:08:04 +0000 UTCThank you for sharing this information! Being the nerd I am, I enjoy learning about structures, the learning the above helps put the events of the past week into better context.
GayBearDaddy2
2024-08-03 21:06:01 +0000 UTCI appreciate the transparency of what y'all do with my $10 a month
lookitsaneric
2024-08-03 21:05:52 +0000 UTCYes the profit making Co-op is communism.
laurence m
2024-08-03 21:05:38 +0000 UTCCheers Jack. That provides great clarity and is really appreciated.
Mark Whitby
2024-08-03 21:04:23 +0000 UTCPerfect! No notes.
NINJACHICKEN893
2024-08-03 21:03:59 +0000 UTCI think a Patreon subscription doesn't stop after you cancel until the next time you would be billed.
Reginald Excellent
2024-08-03 21:02:50 +0000 UTCI think the internal structure stuff is always good to know
Carbon Green
2024-08-03 21:01:51 +0000 UTCYou all are a small new company - true with some experience already under your belts with one another and the work itself, but there's always going to be some experimenting and balancing that goes on with this whole thing. Also this was very well written and clear, and I appreciate the transparency without the usual "we're just regular old YouTube folks stop holding us to business standards snark snark punny joke". Glad you're taking it all seriously.
Meli Bear
2024-08-03 21:00:42 +0000 UTCyes, actually
Carbon Green
2024-08-03 21:00:33 +0000 UTCseems reasonable!
Carbon Green
2024-08-03 20:59:21 +0000 UTCThanks for the transparency Jack. This is good and appreciated and goes above and beyond. The more you can be transparent, the more you make the company strong
Ultraczar
2024-08-03 20:53:07 +0000 UTCThere’s still a little corpo-speak element to this, but this seems akin to a small law firm for me in how it’s set up and structured, which is not how I thought of this before. I appreciate the clarifications though, and being informed of the changes you’ve made which sound very reasonable. I will say that I realise why you didn’t have a HR department before but it’s incredibly good that you have now. At the same time, it’s tempting to just trust yourselves, and you should, but people are trained for roles like HR, management, Financial Accounting etc. for a reason. You probably don’t want to bring in outside agencies or people and I absolutely get that; I think it would be bad for you, but please ensure that whoever is in whatever position does get the training necessary to fulfil the role properly if they haven’t already.
Tim Wilson
2024-08-03 20:51:19 +0000 UTCGood to hear, yeah seems like there were kinks to iron out but that's expected, glad to hear they've been getting addressed.
Kai
2024-08-03 20:46:59 +0000 UTCYou control the content that you read
Kai
2024-08-03 20:45:37 +0000 UTCWell, credit where it's due...that didn't read like corporate legalese. Probably made your attorney's cringe but much appreciated by your audience.
root_squash
2024-08-03 20:44:43 +0000 UTCIt's hard to open a door you don't realize is there. Growing always involves painful steps while you fumble in the dark. The perfect organizational model does not yet exist. I think a good model to base it on might be the neurons in the brain. Each has many connections and every thought involves several of them. There is no neuron that is part of every thought and there is no thought that involves every neuron. There is that balancing act of focusing on being open and having lots of communications and meetings and not overwhelming anyone so that their whole day is just meetings (I could see an HR department only having meetings until the end of time)
Matt A
2024-08-03 20:43:36 +0000 UTCFair, but realize this stuff is gonna be shared when it happens. SW is trying to be transparent in all aspects, so when stuff changes, they're gonna tell us, especially when big stuff like what happened this week goes down. It's literally part of the package. No shade on your position, cuz I fully respect it; I just want you to be aware of what you're literally paying to be notified about.
Charles Arthur
2024-08-03 20:42:33 +0000 UTCYeah I thought the same thing - "wait they didn't have any HR before this?!"
ergotpoisoning
2024-08-03 20:41:32 +0000 UTCWhy am I getting this message when I already unsubribed?
David Ellis
2024-08-03 20:41:26 +0000 UTCThis is clearly in response to the recent drama with Frost and Nick but I appreciate it and think it shows good faith. Thank you for making efforts to be better and transparent.
Ben Wroe
2024-08-03 20:38:50 +0000 UTCSo it's like communism? Jack being HR totally tracks for his character. He's got that "perfectly nice" personality thing going on, where you're pretty sure he is sincere, but you fear he isn't.
Trixie Lulamoon
2024-08-03 20:37:59 +0000 UTCHelpful clarifications. I understand it's hard to find the balance given the small ownership group, but I think as a general rule "not everyone has a say in every decision, but no one should have the only say in any one decision" is a pretty good one.
ergotpoisoning
2024-08-03 20:37:53 +0000 UTCThank you for this. I’ll just say: I’ve worked at a lot of indie studios in the video game industry, and it is worrisome to me that you previously didn’t have an HR department. In my experience, this is usually a sign of people undervaluing the merits of conflict resolution and communication. It’s very very good you added it, and thank you for this update. 💜
Bencompetence
2024-08-03 20:36:10 +0000 UTCThis was a good post. Project creep is a universal threat and it's good to hear you recognized it, had a preexisting procedure, and then executed it with common sense. I'll up my contribution for a couple months because of this.
ParaParadox
2024-08-03 20:36:03 +0000 UTCThank you for this. Appreciate the transparency.
Wilhelm Svenselius
2024-08-03 20:35:06 +0000 UTCJack! Jack! Jack! Jack!
Mellow Magog
2024-08-03 20:34:39 +0000 UTCThanks! I appreciate the transparency on this and I'm glad they guys are pretty reactive when it comes to changes.
David Portnov
2024-08-03 20:34:14 +0000 UTCI mean, this is super reasonable and sound Jack. And I mean you guys haven't been around a year so mistakes are going to happen. Thanks for the insight.
Tom Smith
2024-08-03 20:34:14 +0000 UTCI'm glad that there's an HR department now, that gives a lot of security in a workforce, no matter how small. And I'm glad to see admittance and change of things that can be high-risk or bottleneck-y. Thank you for answering more in depth some concerns people can have, and I'm happy to see that things are moving forward for the better!
Drift
2024-08-03 20:33:25 +0000 UTCThe main takeaway from this whole drama is that Jack is awesome.
Jaszon Alexzander
2024-08-03 20:33:02 +0000 UTCThank you, Jack!
Kevin U.
2024-08-03 20:32:54 +0000 UTCRespectfully, I don’t give a toss about the internal structure. That’s job drama and I have enough of that with my own. Keep putting out the good stuff and keep that other stuff internal.
Swaggy
2024-08-03 20:31:52 +0000 UTC